Review: 2.18 The Man From The Other Side


Welcome to the FB review of Fringe season 2 episode 18 – “The Man From The Other Side“. In this review I present my honest opinions on both the good and bad aspects of the episode. I also take a look at the answers and unresolved mysteries, before sharing my thoughts on other aspects which may have been overlooked.

THE GOOD

  • Newton, Shape-shifters + Central Mythology. I was thrilled to see Newton return (and not just in photographic form!) and glad that we got to learn more about the shape-shifters – how they are brought to our side and seeing them in their embryonic state. I’ve always said that the central mythology of the show – the one dealing with the alternate universe and the impending war, is the most captivating part of the story, alongside the character journeys. What I loved about this part of the mythology is that it felt like a natural progression from “Grey Matters” and “Jacksonville“, with the motivations and themes from those episodes (and the intervening episodes) being advanced. I’m also happy to see the story hit another gear with the arrival of the mysterious “Secretary”. It’s like we have another antagonist to help Newton carry the threat, and I think this is a smart move. As for the identity of Mr. Secretary, it could be Walternate or Bell. In my dream of dreams I’d love for it to be alter David Jones.
  • Peter Knows. As wonderful as the ‘Peter Secret’ arc has been (and seriously, there has been some amazing moments), I think the time was about right for Peter to finally discover the truth. The secret has weighed heavy on the entire season (and the back end of last) so now we can move on and advance that part of the character storyline instead of living off Walter’s endless delays. One of the negative consequences of the secret in recent episodes was the fact that Peter was portrayed as the gold star kid, being overly nice and sweet to his father. While this was clearly a mechanism to make the reveal even more impactful, I thought that some of the character’s believability was abandoned as it felt like Peter was becoming less and less of a character and more of a shell. Now we move on past that ‘necessary contrivance’ and I am both excited and scared to see what happens next.
  • Team work. The main characters (aside perhaps, from Broyles) were well juggled and each contributed to solving the case/stopping Newton. It as particularly great to see them thinking on their feet in working out where Newton was planning to strike next.
  • Peter’s response. I thought Peter’s response to finding out the truth carried the necessary weight to make it work. I really liked the fact that Peter addressed Walter before letting Olivia know that he knew, though his resentment towards Olivia was obvious beneath his veneer. I loved his confrontation with Walter, and the way he told the story of why he must be from the other side, instead of coming straight out with it. What makes it even more gripping is that in the back of my mind I realised he had no time to prepare what he was going to say to Walter. I also like that his next instinct was to check himself out of hospital and leave. For the first time since he joined Fringe Division, he’s reverted back to type. It was really fitting and Walter’s reaction was a picture of broken-hearted despair.
  • I really enjoyed the direction on this episode – it was noticeable for those beautiful wide-shots and the over-the-shoulder positions. Subtle, but it definitely added to my enjoyment in seeing the story unfold through the intimacy and distance of character interactions.
  • I have to mention the acting. There were times in this episode when I glimpsed some really incredible moments driven by actors who are in tune with their characters and have the ability to deliver the right amount of weight and emotion to a scene (credit also goes to the directing, writing, etc). I thought Joshua Jackson delivered one of his finest performances on the show to date during Peter’s confrontation with Walter, while Anna Torv’s reaction to Peter finding out the truth had such a believable quality to it. As for John Noble, there are times when you think he must have lived Walter’s life in order to act it out so convincingly. I’m not saying that this was the best acted episode of Fringe I’ve ever seen, but there were moments where I forgot that I was watching a television show and had to remind myself that this is a fictional television show.

THE BAD

  • Should be common knowledge. Astrid tells Peter: “Walter’s convinced that Newton wants to build a door to the other side”. Heck, Astrid, I think we were ALL convinced about 8 episodes ago! I find it strange that Astrid would say this as if it was the first time they’d heard about Newton’s objective – clearly Newton tried to build a door in “Jacksonville”, which was a consequence of him getting information from Walter in “Grey Matters”. Surely there was a better way to link Walter trying to remember what he told Newton in Grey Matters with the current threat posed by the Shifters? Perhaps they wanted to catch up casual viewers, but that’s what the “previously on” and Hulu are for.
  • Out of Character. Knowing what we know about Olivia’s commitment in the field of battle, and knowing how much Walter loves Peter, there’s no way in hell they’d both get off the bridge and leave Peter to fumble about with the frequencies by himself. Just no way. And that agent was only there to get vaporized. He probably had a family, dammit! Obviously this was done to set up Peter’s realization, but I felt that the character motivations that we’ve come to know and believe were compromised ever so slightly by telling the story in this way. I don’t have  major complaints because they did the best they could with the story they decided to tell, I just wish it could have been cleaner.
  • The episode seemed to send mixed messages over whether or not the Fringe Team were successful in stopping Newton. We know that the secretary managed to come across (albeit with side affects), but initially the scene with Peter on the bridge seemed to imply (to me) that Walter’s counter frequencies may have been successful in preventing the exchange. I also find it strange that Olivia and the gang failed to notice the secretary when they went to get Peter. Unless I’m missing something (and I might need to watch the episode again) it seems as though a few corners were cut in order to end the episode on a very specific note.
  • Ruiners. Perhaps the biggest bad for this episode didn’t come from the episode itself but from the promos for the episode. Personally, I can live without spoilers, but I understand the need to create some buzz to sustain those who do like them. But what FOX did in revealing the fact that Peter would find out the truth in the promos for this episode is what I’d call a “ruiner”. It went beyond foreshadowing and deflated the suspense. Giving away significant plot details before the episode has aired is creative suicide! FOX did great by renewing the series but I really hope they realise that this show largely thrives on the unknown, the mystery and viewer participation. Giving away something that the writers have spent the better part of 2 seasons building towards destroys the integrity of the show, in my opinion, and I doubt it gains more viewers in the long run. The bottom line in all of this is that my experience of the episode was weakened because of the ruiner.

UNRESOLVED MYSTERIES

  • Where has Peter gone?
  • Who is the “Secretary” and why is he here?

ANSWERS

  • The shape-shifters enter our universe in embryonic form. They have dozens of different amino acids to help them survive in the harsh conditions of our universe. They are initially ‘blank slates’ who acquire human identities to blend in.
  • Every so often the two universe’s are in sync with one another.
  • Newton doesn’t currently have a shifting device, perhaps explaining why he hasn’t changed identity since we were introduced to him.
  • Peter gives us confirmation that his mother is indeed dead, as has been previously hinted in past episodes. She apparently committed suicide 1 year after Walter was sent to St. Claire’s month after Peter went to Europe. This was the only time during Walter’s incarceration that they had spoken to each other until their reunion in the Pilot episode.
  • Walter and Bell used harmonic frequencies to send objects over to the other side. Newton and the his superiors figured out the same thing, waiting for the two universes to be in sync to bring the Secretary across.

FRINGE THOUGHTS

  • Walter trying to explain to Peter: “We try to understand the mechanisms of life, but inevitably we cant defeat death, no matter how much we really want to” – this may also be nod to the infinity/immortality references which are scattered throughout the series.
  • Good to see “gumshoe” living up to her nickname by noticing that the girl’s lipstick was not on the joint, leading them to find another shape-shifter identity. They probably would have found out anyway but it was a nice little piece of detective work from Detective Dunham.
  • Question: if they can “jump start” the shape-shifter embryo, why didn’t they try doing that with Evil Charlie and the other shape-shifters that have since passed on to the shape-shifting heaven in the sky?

  • Walter took responsibility for killing the 3rd shape-shifter, which was interesting to me because it spoke about the broader act of him putting those “first cracks” in the fabric of the universe. When Broyles asked him whether it was a good idea to puncture the embryo, Walter said it was “harmless enough”. Though the Shifter was under-developed anyway, Walter’s action probably didn’t help. This carelessness (if you will) seemed indicative of the passion which led Walter to cross over to the other universe – his eyes fixed firmly on the immediate objective, but failing to fully recognise the potential consequences. That the Shifters are over here in no small part due to Walter’s past actions also seems somewhat poignant.
  • I’m intrigued as to why the under-developed shape-shifter spilled the beans so willingly. I guess it’s because he was under-developed and not as sharp as the others? Although funnily enough he seemed to have greater compassion than his fellows, telling Walter “I’m sorry”. I found this interesting because he looked Walter in the eye, held his hand and then said it with such meaning. The Shifters have always been cordial, but this was actual compassion, regret, sorrow – almost echoing Walter’s own quest for forgiveness. It also seemed as though his programming included knowledge of our Walter, just as the other Shifters had been programmed to recognise their targets. And what did he mean by “sorry” anyway? Two possibilities crossed my mind: 1) he’s sorry for what he thinks will be the eventual destruction of our world, or 2) he’s sorry for failing his mission – perhaps believing that Walter was the “secretary”? You probably know where I’m going with the latter – the possibility that Walternate is the secretary. I’m not sold on the idea (I think there are other viable possibilities), but it’s a possibility nonetheless.
  • The Shifters base form somewhat resembles that of Molebaby from “Night of Desirable Objects“. I have to say, I like the idea that they have a ‘blank slate’ – it somehow speaks of their ability to start over from scratch whenever they assume a new identity. Their attitudes very much match that idea – they lack emotional attachment, staying alive is only of value to them because it’s of value to the mission. Evil Charlie may have been a slight exception – or perhaps I wanted him to be. I think I’m eager to see a story emerge where we have a shape-shifter who develops a sense of humanity and overcomes his or her programming. I think that would kick ass, to be honest. Although we’ve seen a glimpse of something similar with the Observers, namely August and September.

  • Peter calling Walter “dad” was both natural and unnatural. It was a bit hammy to be honest, but it carried enough resonance to make it emotionally effective. I liked Walter’s response – his happiness that his son finally trusts him enough to call him “dad” over-weighed by the burden of his secret. Oh story contrivance universe, you do have a funny sense of humor!
  • It’s still strange seeing Olivia with glasses on. I wonder whether they made her wear specs in the scene with peter to subliminally enhance the idea that she sees everything much more clearly than Peter does, what with her knowing the truth about him? Probably not, but it crossed my mind somehow.
  • Olivia to Peter:

Olivia: “Peter, you know that Walter loves you very much”

  1. I can’t help but feel Olivia dug another hole for herself with that one. Why even say that? I know she cares about Peter, but seriously, those almost pitying words will surely roll around in Peter’s head and he’ll chalk it up as another moment where Olivia was just too comfortable in keeping the truth from him. Eventually he may come to view it as a well intentioned act – a way to prepare him for the fallout, but she would have been better just advising Peter to talk to Walter, to find time and sit down with him, rather than lying like she did in White Tulip or offering platitudes. Come on Liv, you’re wearing glasses, put yourself in his shoes!
  • I found it odd that Newton was seemingly pronounced dead and taken to the coroners without investigation (or attempt to resuscitate) and with his clothes still on. Somewhat of a contrivance, or is that standard procedure?
  • It was a bit short-sighted of the bureau to send two police officers to the bridge when Broyles knew that there were two shape-shifters with the ability to assume their identities. Obviously this was done for drama reasons, but Broyles should have ensured that they were better prepared.
  • I love how, even under a reign of gun-fire, our team find time for the important things:

Peter “How did you know?”

Olivia “A cop wouldn’t call the Sergeant on his cell phone”

  1. Haha, that’s why you’re the bestest, Dunham! :)
  • Of course, all of this would have been avoided if only the shape-shifters were better at hiding the bodies of their victims. As maligned as the ‘Charlie fiasco’ was, at least Evil Charlie had the right idea.
  • It comes across as though Walter managed to build the original door to the other side relatively easily (possibly because the building process didn’t receive much focus in “Peter”), yet the ‘more advanced’ alternate universe somehow struggle to create a stable portal after all these years, having instead to rely on the two universe’s being in sync and other circumstances just to create an opening. I mean, even our beloved Jones managed to open a gateway. I guess we’re still running with the idea is that the Door is easier to open on our side (since that’s where Walter originally opened it) especially in the case of creating a stable door which causes less adverse side-effects. I guess.

  • I thought it was an interesting decision to have Peter realise the truth of his origins without us necessarily witnessing the moment in the way that I expected. While it’s clear that Peter figured out the truth when he didn’t get vaporized, to me it still came across as if the ‘lightbulb’ moment happened off-screen. It’s almost as if the realisation had been pressing down on his mind during his unconscious state, falling into place the second he opened his eyes some 36 hours later. In some ways it was even more effective – having Peter tell the story of what made him realize that he’s from the other side not only condensed exposition but it was also emotionally involving and packed a punch. I also appreciated the duality with the other side narrative clearly being a nod to himself.
  • I found it interesting that one of Peter’s first reactions upon realising that he’s from the Other Side was to personalise his mom’s death and almost blame himself (“when I left, the guilt was too much for her to bear”). It’s heavy stuff and it shows us that he still views her as HIS mom even though he’s clearly written himself off as being Walter’s son. This is fascinating to me as there’s now another dynamic to any blame that he places on Walter – in that Walter not only stole him from his real family and caused those cracks in the universe, but his act eventually led to the death of ‘his mom’. Wouldn’t want to be Walter right now!

  • I’m also intrigued by the idea that Peter instinctively seems able to forgive Elizabeth despite the fact that she was  just as complicit in keeping Peter. He doesn’t yet know just how involved she was in keeping him but his almost innate ‘defence’ of her (if you will) says a lot in my opinion. I can’t wait to see what Walter does here – will he tell Peter that his mom was one of the key motivations for keeping him, or will he destroy Peter’s idealistic image of her, and perhaps his last grip on any semblance of reality? It’s a real test for Walter, and personally speaking, I hope that he does the boy a favour and lets him believe whatever he wants to believe about Mama Bishop. There’s no point in killing Peter’s memory of the only mother he truly knows. It could be argued that this would ANOTHER lie in Walter’s chest of lies, but for me there’s a big difference between this and Walter’s lying to Peter his whole life about his roots. Both are unfavorable consequences, but as Broyles not so long ago said – “there comes a time when the only choices you have are bad ones”. (Damn straight I brought that one back, and I doubt it wont be the last time those words are mentioned on this blog). The key thing for me is that Peter now knows that he’s “not from here”. Granted, I expect him to get further details on how and why he was taken, but he knows now. Im not saying that Walter shouldn’t tell Peter that his mother didn’t want to give him back (I’m sure Peter has figured this out anyway), but almost any face-saving explanation now would come across as though he’s trying to excuse his actions and he cannot for one moment let Peter think that he’s trying to do this. Sorry Walter, but you’re gonna have to suck this one up like a man.

  • This got me thinking some more about WHY Peter was so quick to protect his ‘mom’. In my opinion it relates to the idea expressed in “Peter” – that he was closer to his real mom than Walternate, since he gave her his lucky coin, whereas dead Peter (who was seemingly closer to Walter) gave Walter his lucky coin. I have to applaud the writers here, they have not only ripped a family apart and brought them back together, but they’ve ripped them apart again and laid some really potent, intertwined themes in the Bishop family garden. It’s this attention to character detail that definitely enhances my enjoyment of this story. For me it is seriously great writing and foresight.
  • And of course, it would be remiss for me not to ask – 1) is Elizabeth REALLY dead and 2) if so, did she REALLY commit suicide, or was there something even more sinister involved? I just feel that there are options open to the writers to make this family drama even more layered.
  • It’s interesting how Peter saw Walter’s lie about his mom’s death as Walter’s way of protecting him. Granted, Peter thought this before he found out the truth, but I still wonder whether Peter will eventually see Walter’s secret about him being from the other side in the same light? As much as I don’t think it stands up to much, there is still a case to be made that Walter’s act carried some good intent in that it saved Peter’s life. Although, as I mentioned before, a note on the fridge with the formula addressed to Walternate would have sufficed. He didn’t have to take the boy back with him! Oh, and apparently Peter’s “important”, whatever that means. So Walter has some mitigating, but I can’t blame Peter for feeling cheap, cheated and deeply hurt. And once his heart has healed, I fear for that boy’s head. If Walter and Peter ever needed each other, it’s now. I hope, if the universe is truly the dealer of justice, that something happens to bring them back together. Something not involving death, of course.
  • Contrivances aside, I do like how Peter only survived disintegration on the bridge because of something Walter did to him. It’s very similar to the way in which Olivia could only meet Bell, and rescue the people from the building in “Jacksonville”, because of Walter’s part in her clinical trials. They both resent Walter for what he’s done to them, but it’s ironic that what he did to them has empowered them in useful ways that they could never have imagined. I’ve always loved the symmetry – the cause and effect that Fringe taps into, and Peter surviving being torn apart was another great example of this.

  • I cannot tell you how much I loved the clenched ‘victory’ hand shake and nod of recognition between Newton and the Secretary. Perhaps it’s because it seems to mark the beginning of a new phase, or maybe it’s because we see Newton give a pronounced smile for the first time (it was really genuine). It really feels as though the ante has been taken up a notch. Like I’ve said before, It’s hard for me to out and out say that the Other Side are the villains in all of this – I’ve never liked to assign ‘good’ and ‘bad’ so easily. What I will say is that both sides have committed foul acts, while it does look as though the alternate universe – or should I say, factions within the alternate universe (possibly led by Alternate Massive Dynamic) are trying to end our days. Whether we will strike back with the same intent is unclear, but given the history of the world it seems likely. What I do like about our Fringe Team is that they appear to represent neutrality. The Dunhamnator will put a cap in a dude’s head, but honestly, she’d rather not. (mercury’s a nightmare to get out in the wash). Team Fringe are trying to get a handle on the madness and fix the problem. But with Peter seemingly going rogue upon realising his allegiance may not lie here, this may soon become more complicated then us vs them. If it wasn’t already. The question of whether blood is thicker than Walter now springs to mind. Yeah, I said it. :)
  • Walter is now offering lessons on how to win friends and influence people“Are you going to drive me or shall I call a cab”. I know he’s hurting but he brought this on himself. Taking it out on Astrid is poor form.
  • Whether or not God actually forgave Walter in White Tulip, the idea that he did is very believable to me. So I find It interesting to consider that the forgiveness of God extends further than that of Peter. True, God has had a lot more time to come to terms with what Walter did, but I’m interested in how this affects Walter – is God’s forgiveness enough to sustain him, or is Peter’s forgiveness more important to him? I guess Walter has to be realistic and remember the value in the possibility that Peter might one day forgive him, even if that possibility is simply fools hope.

FINAL THOUGHT

The Man From The Other Side was a seminal moment in the Fringe story. Our team has battled the odds before and fought off the ghosts that lurk in their closets, but never before have they been forced apart like this, from the inside. Peter and Walter are both hurting and Olivia is stranded, a knowing part of the toxic secret that has decimated the team. She will blame herself, she will say that she should have gone with her instincts but that she couldn’t afford to lose Peter, just as Walter and Elizabeth couldn’t afford to lose their son again.

If there’s one thing that this show has illustrated it’s that humans can endure a heck of a lot, possibly more than we think. But it has also shown that humans are delicate, brittle, breakable little things. As I once said, the closer our team get – the more their bonds form, the harder it will be, the more it will matter and more greater they will have to risk. My hope is that Peter has time to work things out and that Walter gives him the space to be angry, because that’s his right. There’s no coming back from something like this, things can’t just click back into place like before. But the truth is, it doesn’t have to be like before – they can both grow from this and see each other for who they are today, and not for who they were. I’m not saying it’s going to be easy, but when was anything worth having easy?

The main regret I have is that Walter didn’t get the chance to tell Peter the truth himself. I always said that he HAD to tell him or it will be more difficult to ever gain Peter’s trust again, and so it goes. On the flip side we may be about to see why Peter is so “special”, and I’m not talking about magic powers or reading people or any of that (rather cool) stuff. But in my book, to have the capacity to forgive someone for something as selfish (and it was) as what Walter did, would make Peter – the man from the other side – very special indeed. Over to you Peter. Peter?..

Good luck Walter, and please, be nice to Astrid, okay?

Best Moment: Peter waking up from his injury and confronting Walter about his origins.

Best Performer: John Noble (honorable mention Joshua Jackson for confrontation scene).

If you enjoyed TMFTOS, you’ll like: “There’s More Than One..” and “Peter”.

Episode Rating: 9/10

Comments

  1. Iván says

    Observation, the device in this episodes have 3 rodes to send/receive something from the otherside. The door device in “Peter” S02E15 have 3 legs, one in the front two in the back. The device who teleport Mr. Jones, have 3 legs/rods (S01E10) two in the back one in the front.

    The observation is, the way to teleport to the other side in all the devices is with sound frequency (Walter told us in the last episodes how it works), now we know how to make a door, and how it works; always with 3 rods in the specific positions.

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    • TFT says

      Thank you! It already confused me that Walter didn’t have to do all the complicated stuff like the shapeshifters did.

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      • MRG says

        But did walter have the same 3 rod configuration when he made his doorway in Peter? Or are we assuming that was another method using a different scientific principle for opening a portal to the other side?

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  2. Iván says

    Other observation, maybe we finally know what is the significance of the horizon blue lights, TRAVEL.

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  3. Fringefan1991 says

    I find it interesting that Newton has not felt the same effects evil charlie did when the shapeshifter was stuck in his form after his shifting device broke. By the time “Momentum Deferred” rolled around he needed mercury to keep a vein from bursting and the other shifter remarked that he was stuck in charlie’s body for to long. I think this points to the fact that Newton is different from the other shapeshifters. It may be that as the first shapeshifter he was a prototype that could on assume one identity.

    Another point is what position the “secretary” holds in the other Universe. If its a Presidential cabinet position what is he the secretary of? Also, if he is high ranking official on the other side then he must be great at surviving/fighting because I do not feel that the other side would risk sending over such a key member of their government with out a large security force. Then again, if it is Walternate perhaps his revenge lead him to go rogue? Either way, the secretary’s arrival raises even more questions.

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    • mlj102 says

      Regarding Newton, my theory is similar to yours, though slightly different. I think that Newton simply doesn’t have the need to change identities on a regular basis like the other shapeshifters do. That would be why he is special/different from the others. In this episode, one of the shapeshifters commented that Newton didn’t have a shifting device, which would imply that he didn’t have the means to shift at that time, not that he was limited to being able to shift one time only. Of course that still leaves the question of why it isn’t essential for Newton to shift regularly like the other shapeshifters have to do… I’m very curious to find out the history behind Newton.

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        • mlj102 says

          I don’t think you missed anything — it’s never been directly said. I just got suspicious in this last episode because the one shapeshifter, in talking about their dilemma of only having two shapeshifters, told Newton that he didn’t have a shifting device, which seems to imply that if he did have a device (which we know have to be individually made) then he would have been able to shift. If he wasn’t capable of shapeshifting, I think that shapeshifter would have simply said something like “we don’t have time to do the third one, and you’re not a shapeshifter.” Instead, what was said gave off the impression that Newton could shape shift, he just didn’t have the necessary device.

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  4. Page 48 says

    I didn’t hesitate in giving this episode the ‘best ever’ nod.

    I thought Olivia was awfully quick to pop Cop #2 based on the actions of Cop#1. She had very little time to make the call, so it’s a good thing it was the right call. I guess that’s why she’s working Fringe Division and I’m at home on a Saturday night.

    Where would a pissed off Peternate go after checking himself out of the hospital? Frankly, I think the best thing he could do is go talk to Weiss at the bowling alley. Bowl a few frames, maybe break out a board game and a bottle of “buck five come alive”. I’m sure it’s already occurred to him that his real parents may both be alive, but would he be crazy enough to try and plot a hasty homecoming? Has he gone storming off to find Nina and beat some answers out of her? Has he embarked on a quest to find out the fate of the real Peter? Or did he just go out for Chinese?

    Classic Rock (a format I despise for having neutered FM radio) is a rarity on “Fringe”, so I was shocked to hear the Canadian Content kicking off this episode.

    “Is Elizabeth really dead”, indeed? This is a question that all Bad Robot fans must consider. Lest we forget that Jack Bristow lied to Sydney for many years about her mother being killed in a car crash, and we all know how that turned out (the 6.55 mark for those not given to nostalgia). We also know the strain that the lifetime of lies put on their relationship, and yet it survived.

    This is the “Fringe” I signed on for. It’s hard to believe this is the same show that treated us to The Worminator and Puff the Magic Dragon, the latter of which would be more at home on “Merlin” (the 1:53 mark for those in a hurry).

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    • Alison says

      I’m guessing Peter’s going to try and find answers for himself. Do a little one-man investigating. Or, maybe he’s going to go start his own “other-worldly” law firm, legally representing all those who’ve unjustly suffered emotional and/or physical stress due to the tampering of their personal destiny:

      “Have you, or someone you know, been wrongfully pulled from their natural position on the timeline? Then what you need is someone who knows where your coming from. Come and see me, Peter Bishop! I can get you the compensation you deserve and help you find your true place in this world, or others.” *in fine print* “Our services are not limited to just one universe. We do not represent bald men in black suites, wearing hats.” LOL XD

      Ok, I’m having too much fun with this! :D

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    • mlj102 says

      Where did Peter go after leaving the hospital? I’m imagining something similar to when he nearly left in The Arrival, and how he simply wanted to get away from Boston. While he might later try to investigate how he ended up over here, I think that right now he just wants to get away from Walter and have nothing to do with Walter or the kinds of cases they typically investigate. I think he wants time away, time to process everything, and space to be alone. So I wouldn’t be surprised if he isn’t going to any specific place or if he doesn’t have any specific purpose in mind, but that he just wants to be away from Boston, Walter, etc.

      While I can understand him wanting to seek out his origins at some point, I do think it would be somewhat… presumptuous?… for him to go looking for his real parents. When you mentioned the possibility that he might try to “plot a hasty homecoming” it made me think of Of Human Action and Tyler’s naiive plan to track down his mother and live happily ever after with her. It was rather childish and foolish of him to think he could seek her out and things would suddenly be perfect for them. I think it would have to be the same for Peter in this situation. For one, although they might be his real parents, he really doesn’t know them and it would be rather awkward. But more than that, there’s no guarantee that he would feel comfortable or happy being with them. Just as he scoffed at Tyler’s foolish plan to track down his mother and be with her, I would expect he would be skeptical about what things would be like if he tried to track down his real parents.

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      • LMH says

        I’m really enjoying the thought that “Of Human Action” wasn’t just full of hints to MD’s cloning projects, but that it contained what now seems like a lot of foreshadowing relevant to Peter’s story (beyond just general daddy issues). Whether Peter would want to find his parents or would consider it foolish is an interesting question, though it’s easy to criticize others for their hopes especially for a relatively cynical character like Peter when you are not in such a dark place yourself. If Peter would possibly want to even find anything resembling family right now is a big if given the betrayal he’s just experienced. Yes he loved his mother, but would he want to find alt-Elizabeth if she’s even still alive and try to make a new family? I don’t know. How interesting would it be if Walter did somehow fulfill his promise and bring Peter back to Elizabethnate? A long shot and the most AWKWARD reunion ever.

        I think this plot line of alternates is particularly fascinating from an emotional perspective, as how much of a mind-bending and emotional rollercoaster must it be for someone to meet a doppelganger of a dear loved one they have already lost on this side (knowing in the back of their mind they are not the same person, but you still attach that face with the one you loved and feel those emotions). I think Walter has illustrated this well, he knows Peternate is still ultimately not his Peter who died, he cannot truly replace him or undo that loss.

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    • LizW65 says

      “I thought Olivia was awfully quick to pop Cop #2 based on the actions of Cop#1.”
      And why didn’t she see Cop #2 glimmering? Presumably the “glimmer” isn’t permanent and can only be triggered by specific stresses.

      “Where would a pissed off Peternate go after checking himself out of the hospital?”
      My guess is “as far away from Boston as possible” — Seattle, perhaps? Hence the upcoming title “Northwest Passage”. Would he have figured out by now that Nina Sharp also knows of his origin?

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  5. Alison says

    I posted this comment on the “2.18 preview and discussion” page earlier. I keep going back and forth on my theories after having watched this episode. You know, I thought the “Secretary” was Walternate too, I mean the way the undeveloped shape-shifter grabbed Walter’s hand in the lab and said “I’m sorry”, is one of the things that makes me wonder the most. But that’s probably what the producers are expecting us to think. I find it hard to believe that it would have taken Walternate “25 years” to orchestrate this whole thing. Anyone think it could be the other William Bell (or Bellternate)? I mean we haven’t had any insight on what happened to him, or whether he’s dead or alive. Also, about the effects of crossing over thing, “Bellternate” probably hasn’t crossed over before. But that still leaves the question of what he’s here for. Maybe Walter and him could have a showdown! Two great minds pitted against each other! I’m sure Peter will end up meeting one of the Bells soon, assuming the real Bell isn’t dead or something, even though we saw him near the beginning of the season. Who knows? ;)

    I did think the man was Walter at first but, as I explained above, it doesn’t all make sense. Then again, that’s pretty much what the show’s based around isn’t it? LOL XD

    My other guess is that it’s someone who has not been introduced yet. Although the one thing that makes me doubt that is the fact that they didn’t show his face. Obviously they wouldn’t have kept his identity a secret unless it was someone we’ve seen before. Hmmmm…….I could dwell on this forever and still not get any further.

    As far as my thoughts on the episode, I thought it was awesome! Very intense! I loved the bridge scene and the confrontation scene! Bravo to the actors for their magnificent performances! b^^d I always knew that Peter wouldn’t find out the truth from Walter or Olivia, and frankly I think it’s good that way, not for the people who care about him but for the show’s storyline in general and no doubt the drama-o-meter :D. I also believe that in the long run it will develop the characters relationship to each other. Not now, of course, but when Peter is finally able to forgive Walter, ’cause we all know he will ;), this will prove the true strength of their bond. In times of turmoil it’s hard to rely on oneself for stability and endurance, and hopefully Peter will realize this soon.

    BTW, who else got a kick out of the embryonic, shape-shifting, whatchamacallit, hybrid-man thing in the lab? That was friggin creepy and hilarious! LOL XD

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  6. says

    Page 48 –

    “Is Elizabeth really dead”, indeed? This is a question that all Bad Robot fans must consider. Lest we forget that Jack Bristow lied to Sydney for many years about her mother being killed in a car crash, and we all know how that turned out (the 6.55 mark for those not given to nostalgia). We also know the strain that the lifetime of lies put on their relationship, and yet it survived.”

    No, you’re wrong about that (I think). Sydney calls her father and tells him that her mother is alive (last ep., Season 1), because Sydney just fooled everybody by “hiding out underwater”.

    If they changed it later, I apologize. I quit watching early on in Season 3 when they had Vaughn married to the american/british girl. I only tuned in to see the last ep of that season, when Vaughn killed her, and the shows that had her mother in it again. Other than that — what they did with Vaughn completely ruined it for me.

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  7. mlj102 says

    Out of Character: While I understand where you’re coming from with this observation, I have to say I didn’t really have a problem with it. They were all aware of the danger of the whole situation, so it makes sense that they wouldn’t allow any one else to be on the bridge at that time than was necessary. As much as Olivia is determined and committed, she knew that there was nothing she could do to help Peter in his efforts to get the program working. She’d just be standing there watching. There was no point to doing that when it would just put her in danger as well. That’s not to say it was selfish of her to leave Peter on the bridge alone, only practical. Same with Walter. The problem had moved past the area of science that Walter deals with, and was now more of a problem with technology, which Walter is less familiar with. He wouldn’t have been able to do anything. And he did want to stay with Peter, but Broyles and Olivia forced him to leave. If there had been more that needed to be done — if something still needed to be set up or equipment needed to be stabilized, then it would have made sense for either or both Olivia and Walter to stay with Peter. But there was nothing they could do, so the smart move was to back up.

    That said, I do agree that having the agent stay on the bridge was completely pointless and included simply for the purpose of the story. There was no reason for Broyles to tell the guy to stay there and, knowing of the situation and the current threat, he should have had the guy retreat with the rest of them.

    Mixed messages: I also found this aspect to be confusing, and I’m glad I’m not the only one. Upon watching the scene with the bridge again, I think I’ve figured it out. In the shots of the bridge right when Peter was able to counteract Newton’s procedure, you could see the shape of a man walking towards the right side of the screen and he seemed to get onto our side of the bridge right before Peter made it disappear. So I think Peter was working from the left side of the bridge and the secretary walked off on the right side, making it so that he made it into our universe, and largely went unnoticed/unapprehended by Olivia and team.

    Ruiners: While I understand why FOX would want to make good use of the fact that something that has been hinted at for nearly a full season (Peter learning the truth) was finally going to happen, I agree that it was unnecessary. They had plenty of material to work with when you consider that the episode involved Newton and the shapeshifters. The promo would have been just as informative and intriguing if they’d stuck to the shapeshifter plot. If they wanted, they could have even mentioned Bishop family secrets playing a role, but I agree that they went too far by specifically saying that Peter would find out the truth.

    “She apparently committed suicide 1 year after Walter was sent to St. Claire’s.”: Where did you get this timetable from? In the episode, Peter only tells Olivia that he got the phone call from Walter a month after he got to Europe. A year after Walter was sent to St. Claire’s, Peter would have only been about 14 years old. Even though he was a high school drop out, I find it hard to believe he was on his own and traveling in Europe at that age…

    “those almost pitying words will surely roll around in Peter’s head and he’ll chalk it up as another moment where Olivia was just too comfortable in keeping the truth from him.”: Really? I actually thought it was a very good thing for her to say. I really liked seeing Olivia’s reactions in that scene. When Peter said he thought he’d figured out what had been bothering Walter, she suddenly stopped what she was doing, and slowly turned to look at him, clearly scared that he really had figured it out. When he started talking about his mother’s death, she almost seemed relieved that he didn’t know the truth, though also fully aware of how significant it was that he was opening up to her about his mother. Peter already knows that Walter wants to talk to him — by simply advising him to talk to Walter, it would have only served to emphasize the fact that she knows something that he doesn’t know. After learning the truth, I think he would look back at that with greater resentment, knowing that she knew, but that she purposely kept it from him, almost as if rubbing it in his face with comments like that. By telling him that Walter loves him, she was essentially assuring him that, though Walter isn’t his real father, he still loves him. I think that it will be important for Peter to remember and acknowledge that if he’s ever going to be willing to give Walter a second chance.

    “I found it odd that Newton was seemingly pronounced dead and taken to the coroners without investigation (or attempt to resuscitate) and with his clothes still on.” : That was my first thought when he unzipped the bag and got out. Here he was in a room full of dead bodies, presumably all of which had no clothes on, yet he was rolled in there with all his clothes and all his possessions. I don’t work in a hospital, but that doesn’t sound like standard procedure. My next thought was wondering how he got out of there…

    “will he tell Peter that his mom was one of the key motivations for keeping him, or will he destroy Peter’s idealistic image of her” : I don’t think anything could destroy Peter’s image of his mother at this point. He is clearly very loyal to her, despite the fact that he himself acknowledged that she was aware of the truth. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that her suicide proves that she felt guilty for what she did and she suffered for it, while, as far as he’s aware of right now, Walter feels no guilt whatsoever — he was simply content to take a son that wasn’t his and pretend that he was his son. Also, he views his mother as the person who was there for him when Walter wasn’t there. So despite whatever role she might have played in bringing him over here, I think he’s more willing to forgive her because of all she did for him while he was growing up.

    ““there comes a time when the only choices you have are bad ones”. (Damn straight I brought that one back, and I doubt it wont be the last time those words are mentioned on this blog)” : :) Since you mentioned it, I’ll go ahead and mention that, in many ways, this statement Broyles made was also true to Olivia’s position in this whole mess. When she stumbled upon the truth about Peter, she was put in an awful position where all the choices she had (tell him the truth, or lie to him) were bad ones. It’s easy for us to claim that she should have just told him the truth, and maybe that ultimately would have been for the greatest good. But it’s not that easy. And it’s just as likely that, after she told him the truth, Peter would have run off, being furious at Walter, and angry at Olivia simply because she knew and she shattered everything that he’d thought he’d known about his life. I think Olivia realized that, no matter what she did, it was a bad choice that would result in negative consequences. I think she tried to choose the lesser of the two evils, but she knew that, either way, it wasn’t going to be a great decision.

    “but almost any face-saving explanation now would come across as though he’s trying to excuse his actions and he cannot for one moment let Peter think that he’s trying to do this.”: Exactly! Especially considering how Peter feels for his mother, it would be a very, very bad idea for Walter to try and place any amount of the blame on Elizabeth.

    “In my opinion it relates to the idea expressed in “Peter” – that he was closer to his real mom than Walternate” : While I agree that Peternate seemed closer to Elizabeth while Peter was portrayed as being closer to Walter, I still believe that there is a reason why “Peternate” continued to being closer to Elizabeth after being brought over here. Peter has many memories of Walter being a neglectful father, and I don’t think we can say all those memories are from when he was over there. And I don’t think we should just ignore that. For whatever reason, I think Walter started ignoring Peternate after he brought him over here. Maybe it was out of guilt, or being consumed in his work, or starting to go crazy… or maybe it was because seeing Peternate only reminded him that, while he might look like his son, he wasn’t actually Peter. It would go to prove the point that, while he could replace his son, it still didn’t change the fact that his son was dead.

    Is Elizabeth really dead? I certainly hope so. Not because I didn’t like her — I really loved her character. But they’ve gone to great measures to establish that she isn’t part of Peter’s life and how hard her loss was for him. I think it would be a bit over the top, too much like a soap opera, for them to suddenly reveal that she was actually still alive. Considering that they’ve spent nearly two seasons getting to the point where they’ve officially revealed that she’s dead, I think it would be rather cheap to take that back and later reveal she really is still around. While I’m all for twists and unexpected developments and things that show that what we thought we knew actually wasn’t true, I think that some things should be solid facts once they’re revealed, and this is one of those things. And if she wasn’t dead, they’d have to explain where she has been all this time. As far as I’m concerned, we supposedly still have alternate Elizabeth alive, and that’s good enough for me.

    As much as I hate the idea that Peter has completely abandoned the entire team and the people he loves, I think it will be interesting to see how they all respond in these next few episodes as Olivia and Walter strive to keep going without Peter, and as he attempts to continue his life without them. As much as he may try to convince himself that he doesn’t need them and he’s better off without them, I think he’ll realize that his life is rather empty without them and that being alone really is, well, lonely. While I understand that it will take time for them to be able to mend their relationships, I hope the separation doesn’t last too long and that we will start to see signs leading to reconciliation before too long.

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    • Alison says

      “As far as I’m concerned, we supposedly still have alternate Elizabeth alive”

      You know, I’ve been wondering if Walternate committed suicide in the alternate universe. I know the reasons behind Elizabeth’s suicide were supposedly from the guilt she felt, which wouldn’t relate to a reason as to why either one of Peter’s real parents would commit suicide and they could possibly both be alive, but still, it’s just a thought.

      Another thing I am curious about is how Astrid is going to discover about Peter. I mean does she already know, like was she told before 2.18 ended and we just didn’t see the conversation, is she going to show up in the next episode knowing the truth or is she going to be filled in later in the episode? Of course she would be confused as to why Peter suddenly vanished and why Walter will most likely be in such a fog.

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    • LizW65 says

      ““She apparently committed suicide 1 year after Walter was sent to St. Claire’s.”: Where did you get this timetable from? In the episode, Peter only tells Olivia that he got the phone call from Walter a month after he got to Europe. A year after Walter was sent to St. Claire’s, Peter would have only been about 14 years old. Even though he was a high school drop out, I find it hard to believe he was on his own and traveling in Europe at that age…”

      I take issue with this as well. My guess is that Elizabeth killed herself in 2006, two years before the formation of the Fringe Division. My reference is the Pilot episode, in which Peter says, “A couple of years ago I went a little crazy” or words to that effect. What would be more likely to make him “crazy” than the death of his beloved mother? And really, 28 is a far more realistic age to be backpacking across Europe than 14, especially for a kid who was sheltered from the world until the age of 7, the very time when most of us are learning the skills necessary to interact in society.

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      • LizW65 says

        ETA: Further, we know Peter sold Walter’s German book collection “about 10 years ago”–in other words, around the year 2000. Where would he have got them from, if not his mother’s apartment in Allston? If she was already dead at that point, all her and Walter’s personal effects would be long gone.

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    • MRG says

      “I found it odd that Newton was seemingly pronounced dead and taken to the coroners without investigation (or attempt to resuscitate) and with his clothes still on.” : That was my first thought when he unzipped the bag and got out. Here he was in a room full of dead bodies, presumably all of which had no clothes on, yet he was rolled in there with all his clothes and all his possessions. I don’t work in a hospital, but that doesn’t sound like standard procedure. My next thought was wondering how he got out of there…

      Just ’cause there’s been some question about this….I don’t work in a morgue, but I don’t think its that unusual to have a fully clothed body end up in the morgue like that if he was found dead on arrival (DOA). Once EMS had gotten there, if he had no pulse or respirations, they likely would have pronounced him and not done anything else. Furthermore, getting into those places is hard, getting out is not. Newton would have had no trouble walking out of the morgue fully clothed.

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      • mlj102 says

        Thanks for giving your insight into that — I still think it feels a little odd, but it’s good to know it’s not as uncommon or unlikely as I had thought it was. I had figured you’d be able to provide some sort of insight into this particular matter! :)

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  8. anita says

    Roco,
    Agree with everything you say… however, the BAD list was serious. When the writing team do BAD, it is very very BAD. It can’t be absolutely perfect all the time, of course(too many cooks in the kitchen, and all that) but the writing was clunky, amateur, inorganic, contrived, on-the-nose, and worst of all, juvenile… now before you faithfuls lynch me, I’m talking about those points Roco raised under BAD! I expect more, especially from a team that can imagine and create so well as this team… and we do see the odd gem here and there, so they are more than capably. It was lazy writing, mollycoddling the lowest common denominator. Give your audience some credit… write up… not down… other shows don’t feel the need to spoon feed, and they do, or have done spectacularly ie: Sopranos, Madmen, Battlestar G, WestWing etc. I say go hard or go home – dish it up raw… they’ll catch on and appreciate it more in the end.

    Like you allude to Roco, every action, every reaction by a character should stem directly from their innate personality, their character – the sum total of their life thus far…. anything else reads like contrivance and sticks out, ruining, cheapening, weakening.

    Love the show… it’s why I care enough to want more, and better, and because I have faith the writers have it in them.

    “Try again please.”

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  9. Elaine says

    Should be common knowledge:

    This was the only part of the episode that sort of irritated me, because it’s been common knowledge for weeks now…no need to have Astrid restate this fact. There’s bringing the casual viewer up to speed, and then there’s dumbing things way down for no reason. Something like, “This door that Newton’s trying to open…” followed by an idea or theory she might have to help prevent him from doing so would have been far more effective. Not to mention kept Astrid from sounding like the slow kid in class. My only real gripe.

    I’ve been thinking a lot about Peter, and how he must have been after Walter was committed. He was likely a handful for Elizabeth, because she was left to deal with not only her guilt for her complicity in taking alt/Peter, but in slowly watching her husband go mad behind his own guilt. Then there’s this impressionable, hormonal, angry teenager she’s left to raise alone…who, despite being very loyal to her, is likely feeling all the more…lost and out of sync with who he is now that his father is gone. As he told Olivia in ‘Bad Dreams’, until now he viewed Walter’s going crazy as something he did to him and his mother, not something that happened to Walter.

    Having reinvested in Walter as well as Olivia and his place on the Fringe team, this reveal understandably has sent him reeling emotionally. While I believe he will find himself back with the team, it will be some time before things are ever the same…if they ever are. Peter’s past (and I’m referring mainly to his nomadic/criminal past) I believe, or better yet, I hope) has always been woven in to the larger story rather than it being the primary storyline…something that should change going foward. I can see a scenario where he’s back to helping the Fringe team, tentatively, but also hedging his bets–using information they come across for a personal quest. I don’t know, could be wishful thinking on my part…but there’s a ton of story potential there regarding Peter that could give S3 an entirely different, yet complimentary tone from the first two seasons.

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    • Jodie says

      “I don’t know, could be wishful thinking on my part…but there’s a ton of story potential there regarding Peter that could give S3 an entirely different, yet complimentary tone from the first two seasons.”

      Amen to that. I’ve been intensely interested in finding out about Peter’s past, and I really hope that the creative team takes this opportunity to fill in the blanks here.

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  10. Con says

    Sorry if this has been said before, but I’ve always assumed that Newton was a regular human who was “revived” when the shapeshifters attached his head to a shapeshifter body. That would explain why he doesn’t have a conversion device and why he doesn’t need to change shape.

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  11. Inkblood says

    “I’m also intrigued by the idea that Peter instinctively seems able to forgive Elizabeth despite the fact that she was just as complicit in keeping Peter.”

    Does that mean he’ll learn to forgive Liv? I mean, she was just keeping the secret, just like elizabeth.

    Peter’s reaction, to me, was childish. he jumped to his own conclusions and when Walter tried to explain, he cut him off. Like a spoiled child. IDK, it could be just anger, but he should have stayed around for the full story at least.

    Olivia’s face in the hospital was…interesting. It flickered in and out of the “happy you’re Alive” face and the “OMG You Know, Didn’t You?” face.

    Poor Walter. Never to be called dad ever again.

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    • mlj102 says

      “Peter’s reaction, to me, was childish. he jumped to his own conclusions and when Walter tried to explain, he cut him off. Like a spoiled child. IDK, it could be just anger, but he should have stayed around for the full story at least.”

      I can understand why you say that, but really, I don’t think his reaction was uncalled for at all. He has every right to be upset. Walter essentially changed his entire life and was content to lie to him about it for years. And here Peter was developing a relationship with him and being invested in that relationship, and it was like Walter was taking that for granted. Of course he feels hurt and angry and betrayed. What Walter did was irresponsible and careless. Yes, there are deeper motivations and intentions behind what he did, and if Peter would listen to him and be willing to understand Walter’s position, he might be willing to acknowledge that. But that doesn’t change that, ultimately, what Walter did was wrong. After just learning the truth about a secret that has been part of your whole life, of course he’s going to be upset and not willing to listen. I would have reacted the same way if I was in his position. I don’t think it makes him childish — I think it’s a very natural reaction and he had every right to respond like he did.

      That said, if he continues in his anger and is constantly unwilling to look at things from Walter’s perspective and to hear the whole story, I think that would start to become uncalled for. Certainly he needs and deserves some time and space to process everything and to calm down, but at some point he should be willing to listen to the full story. It’s only fair. But right now after just discovering the truth, he’s not going to be willing to be fair, and I don’t blame him.

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      • Inkblood says

        I see your point, too, but if it were me, I couldn’t live with not having the full story. Maybe not now, maybe not next season, but Peter should come back for answers instead of staying on the run. That would be childish.

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  12. says

    I was watching the Arrival earlier, and I’m wondering whether or not Johnny Mosley was able to read people (via torture) by finding their frequency.

    OH FRINGE, YOU MAKE ME THINK THE SILLIEST THINGS.

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    • Pleun says

      Yup, noticed that too. Definitely can’t be Bell.
      Looks to me like Walternate figured out what happened, and is now trying to get Peter back. Which would be sort of strange in a way as it’s thanks to Walter that Peter is still alive…so I can’t really think of a reason for all the hostility. Perhaps the fact he didn’t just push him back in a portal to the other side once he was cured, who knows.
      I think that at the end of this season we’ll learn how evil in nature Walter actually is/was (before losing some bits of his brain) and to what great lengths he is prepared to go to get what he wants. Hopefully Peter realises this as well and decides to stick with the slightly more sane one at this side – securing his place for the next season. Of course this is all going on the assumption that the secretary is in fact Walternate.

      Now I’m wondering, how does Bell fit in this picture and what would he know about it?

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  13. Anjali says

    When Bell told Olivia to tell those greek words to Peter – ‘Be a better man than your father’…. I think he meant… “Be a better man than walternate”… his real father from the other side. Maybe Walternate is trying to get Peter back, but in doing so has become one of the bad guys.

    Just thinking out loud.

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    • Inkblood says

      Whoa! i never thought of it like that! Nice!
      Yeah, it’s amazing how, without any real proof, we’ve kind of labled Walternate a “Bad Guy #1″ and put him at the center of all this. But that man, the one who crossed over? He could be Walternate, trying to get back Peter and is willing to tear the universe apart to do it.
      or…
      Bell was talking about both of his fathers. *dun dun duh!* Think about. Both Walters are fracturing the thin smoked glass between universes over this one man, their son. Neither are taking in the morals and ethics behind this , and are doing things NO ONE should be.
      All for Peter.

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  14. Rich says

    A lot of me says its Walternate because of the similarities between the handshakes of Newton and Mr. Secretary….and #3 Shapeshifter and Walter.

    Looking in that strange suit and seeing that Nimoy-esque honker says it could be Bellernate.

    Anyone who is good at handmatching could decide either that or maybe its DRJnate.

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    • Alison says

      “it could be Bellernate”

      That’s what I’m saying too. I think it’s way too soon to come to the full conclusion that it’s Walternate. There’s no solid proof.

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      • Inkblood says

        it realy could be neither! We don’t know yet, so it could very well be a random new enemy thrust into our overflowing pile of villians.

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        • Alison says

          Exactly. But I’ve never said I had any proof of it being “Bellternate” either, and even supported the idea that it COULD be someone entirely new. I’m just saying who I think it might be if it WAS someone we have already been introduce to, because it’s always fun to speculate. ;)

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  15. yvaine says

    Roco: A very thorough review, as always. I emphatize with your take on “ruiners”; that’s why I don’t watch the teasers anymore. But heck, I think I just shot myself on the foot by reading your review; I haven’t seen the episode yet. :S

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  16. Audrey says

    everybody knows that in Fringe, J.J Abrams likes to use the number, 7, right? (sorry this has NOTHING to do with this) Actually, if you take the number of letters in Olivia, Peter, and Walter, you get 17. Strange right? if you have no idea what i mean about having 7 as J.J’s number in Fringe, let me enlighten you: From PILOT, 627 was the Hamburg flight. 147 died on that flight. From the TRANSFORMATION, the flight was 718. 147 people died there too. Peter’s birth date is 10-18-1978. Astrid has been taking apart computers since she was 7. The ‘real’ Peter died when he was 7. Walter was at St. Clair’s for 17 years. The episode: Olivia. In the lab. With a Revolver. is 7 words. Does anyone see a PATTERN here?(haha INVESTIGATE the Pattern. Get it?) THIS IS MY OBSERVATION! MINEEE

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  17. Seth says

    Has everyone failed to realize that the peternate in Walter’s world, may not be the actual peter? Couldn’t it be a shape shifter? Theres a significant period of time where peter had himself knocked against a car, and we don’t know how long he was laying there.

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    • Seth says

      My reasoning for saying this is just that Peter’s actions and mannerisms seemed very off from the Peter we are use to seeing.

      He seemed like an entirely different person, and I wouldn’t be too confident in saying that its all due to anger, although it would be a safe assumption.

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      • LizW65 says

        Interesting, except that we’ve seen little evidence that the shapeshifters retain many of the memories or knowledge of the people they replace…and where would the body have gone to? The Other Side? Unless the showrunners are planning to kill off the character fairly soon (and I’ve seen nothing to indicate that Jackson is leaving the show) this sounds pretty low on the probability scale to me.

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      • Alison says

        Please don’t taken offense to this, I value everyone’s insight here, but that theory is waaayy out there. Peter is Peter, or Peternate, if you really want to get technical. There is NO reason to believe that he is a shape-shifter. His demeanor was the result of him finding out about his origin, and he seemed to have come up with his own theories as to Walter’s intentions for what he’s done, without talking to him. But who could really blame him.

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      • Inkblood says

        Peter’s been off ever since jacksonville, though. First the almost kiss, then the giddy, happy, loving son, and now SupermadPeter. Maybe he just finally put down his guard and and was himself.

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        • mlj102 says

          I figured his behavior was just part of the character development, showing how he had come to be truly happy with those around him and in what he was doing. There’s nothing out of the ordinary with that. Even people like Peter who are typically skeptical and somewhat confrontational can change under certain circumstances and can find a place where they’re genuinely happy with their life. There was no reason for him not to be happy, supportive, encouraging, etc. He’d simply changed from the person he was when we first met him. Yeah, maybe it was exaggerated a bit too much, but I really saw it all as a natural progression for the character. I agree with what you said that that is more who Peter really is (the thoughtful, agreeable, loyal person we’ve seen lately) as opposed to the angry, defensive, selfish, criminal type of person he was in the Pilot and earlier episodes.

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          • Inkblood says

            So, do you you think he’ll revert back to his old demeanor, or stay the Peter we’ve come to love?

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            • annon says

              Can I just jump in here and put a thought out there. When we first met Peter he absolutely hated his father. Didn’t really want anything to do with him. However, over the course of the series so far, the writers have not let us into anything that happened between Walter and growing up Peter. We really do not know the full extent of why their relationship got to such a low point. All we have been told by the writers is the story of the young Peter.

              So, in some ways, the reveal of who he really is, has taken us back to the Peter in the pilot, with this immense hatred he has for Walter being brought up again. Where does this immense hatred come from? What other stuff happened between them? Remember in 2.13, how Peter sold all of Walters precious manuscripts from his father to get back at Walter. Why? They never really went into that.

              I just think it is hard to totally understand the angry, defensive, selfish, criminal type of person that Peter was, if the writers haven’t fleshed out that part of him. That just has not been there focus. Peter reverted back to Peter in the pilot, which is how he copes with his issues with Walter. Sometimes, it doesn’t matter how far you change/become happy with life, when past issues raise their head, you revert back to how you have coped before.

              So, Inkblood, it will be interesting to see, where the writer’s take Peter in the remaining three episodes. How will he react to Walter and Olivia? Has the security he has had with them, influence the way he copes with the loss of their friendship/love and trust? It will be interesting to watch I think.

              I liked the way that Peter found out, in this episode. Hated the fact that him confronting Walter at the end, felt like a complete tack on. The scene was really not long enough to give it the justice it deserved. It had great impact though, and very well acted by Josh and John. Josh portrayed the anger and hurt so well, bubbling underneath his demeanor. I also loved how he explained how he worked it out. It was a bit wordy, but if they hadn’t done that, then we would all be scratching our heads as to how he came to that conclusion. Looking forward to seeing the rest of that conversation between Walter and Peter further down the track.

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              • mlj102 says

                annon — I’m glad you jumped into the discussion — you brought up some interesting points.

                “However, over the course of the series so far, the writers have not let us into anything that happened between Walter and growing up Peter. We really do not know the full extent of why their relationship got to such a low point. All we have been told by the writers is the story of the young Peter. ”

                I disagree. Certainly, there is still a lot we don’t know about that aspect of the Bishop family life, and it’s true that they haven’t directly addressed it very often, but they refer to that time period a lot, and I think that, from those references, we can learn a lot about why Peter hated Walter so much.

                Essentially, it would appear that Walter was a neglectful father, who didn’t spend much time with his family. And, yes, I’m talking about Walter, not Walternate. I believe Peter has plenty of memories of growing up in this reality when Walter was his father and that’s what influenced his opinion of Walter. So, Walter intentionally ignored his wife and son, then he got sent to St. Claire’s, which just added fuel to the fire and confirmed Peter’s belief that Walter was never there for him and his mother. Then, after being in St. Claire’s, Walter lied to Peter about his mother’s death which, at the time, probably made Peter all the more furious. I doubt he saw the situation as Walter trying to protect him — rather, I imagine he was only able to see the fact that Walter had lied to him. All of that added up over time and caused Peter to have absolutely no love for his father and to want nothing to do with him.

                Allow me to explain why I believe this to be the case (though I warn you, this is going to be quite long…).

                Starting with the Pilot, when talking to Olivia, Peter tells Olivia what little he knows about what Walter was doing 17 years before, and he mentions that when Walter went to St. Claire’s, it began the “first truly peaceful period in our home.” So that suggests that, for whatever reason, things were never very pleasant or happy in the Bishop household prior to Walter going to St. Claire’s. We don’t know why that’s the case, but it seems to imply there was a lot of disagreement and constant arguing and that life just wasn’t too great for them until Walter was completely out of their lives.

                Next, in the Same Old Story, as they’re working on some experiment, Walter accuses Peter of being impatient, and adds that he always was that way. Peter retorts by saying that Walter never knew him well enough to be able to make a statement like that. That seems to imply that Walter wasn’t around much when Peter was growing up, hence why he wouldn’t know Peter well enough to be able to make statements about the kind of person he is/was.

                This is again emphasized in No-Brainer when Peter explains to Olivia at the end that he never had Walter in his life before this point. Walter just doesn’t seem to have ever been a key figure in Peter’s life.

                And again, in Night of Desirable Objects, Peter tells the story about how he’d planned a father-son fishing trip (when he was around 10 years old, so this is definitely after he was over here) but that “his father was never really all that available to him” and he ended up fishing alone. Again, it seems to show that Walter didn’t spend time with his family, and Peter was bitter about that.

                Furthermore, in Dream Logic, Peter explains that when Walter helped him with his nightmares, it was one of the rare occasions in which Walter was actually helpful as Peter was growing up. So not only was Walter unavailable as a father, but he also wasn’t the kind of father who was helping his son with homework or other such issues in a child’s life.

                Additionally, in Of Human Action, when he’s talking with Tyler, Peter again implies that Walter never thought Peter was good enough or smart enough. As a side note, this would make sense if Walter was constantly comparing Peter to original Peter and recognizing that he wasn’t his Peter.

                Then there’s the greek phrase between Peter and his mother. Peter explains to Olivia that it essentially meant “keep your people close. Take care of the people you care about.” So if the phrase was “be a better man than your father” and that was the message behind it, it would suggest that Walter did not take care of the people he cared about and he didn’t keep his people close. Which again implies that he wasn’t being much of a husband or father in his family.

                And finally, the ultimate thing Walter did to them was get sent to St. Claire’s. In Bad Dreams, Peter admits to Olivia that he viewed Walter going to St. Claire’s as something that Walter did to him and his mother — like he was abandoning them for good.

                So as far as Peter’s concerned, Walter was never around and he never did anything to help him or his mother, and he didn’t love Peter because Peter couldn’t seem to measure up to his expectations of him. Then he went crazy, foolishly caused a fire in his lab, and effectively abandoned them for good. That’s certainly reason enough to cause Peter to have very negative feelings towards Walter. He resents him for not being a good father. So while we may not know specifics regarding what Walter did and what family life was like when Peter was growing up, his memories of growing up clearly indicate that Walter simply wasn’t around. And that made him very bitter and resentful towards Walter. He had no reason to care about him.

                And, again, I want to emphasize that I don’t believe we can just claim that all this is based on his memories of a neglectful Walternate. For one, we can’t simply dismiss the fact that he was over here with Walter between the ages of 7 and 13 — that’s plenty of time to build memories and to form impressions of your family members. So if Peter remembers Walter as being neglectful, it must be because, to a certain extent, Walter was a neglectful father. Additionally, it seems that the majority of Peter’s memories are from after he was brought over here, anyway, so I doubt he even remembers much about Walternate.

                The ironic thing about this is that the above examples don’t seem to describe the loving husband and father we saw in Peter — the father who was willing to do anything to save his son. And I think that it was because of guilt. In White Tulip, Walter shares some of his experience with Peck and tells him how he was never able to look at Peter without being reminded of what he did and the consequences of his actions, and that he has felt the burden of his actions every day since then. I think that, as much as he loved Peter, he couldn’t stand to be around him and be reminded of what he had done by crossing over to the other side (and possibly initiating a chain of events that would destroy the two universes) and stealing someone else’s son. It’s interesting because Walter essentially retrieved and kept Peternate in order to keep his family intact, but instead he essentially destroyed his family by doing what he did. Peter grew up hating him, it seems to have had severe consequences on his marriage (see the Arrival for an example of how Walter describes Elizabeth), it led to him going crazy, and Elizabeth committing suicide. He may have had good intentions, but he sure screwed up big time!

                Anyway, clearly I got a bit carried away there. But my point is that we actually know quite a bit about what Peter’s life was like on the other side, growing up over here, and after Walter went to St. Claire’s. And all of these impressions he has of Walter would be a pretty thorough explanation for why Peter hated Walter so much when we first saw him in the Pilot. I agree that there is still much to learn about Peter, how he got started in his life of crime, and what kinds of things he participated in during that time of his life, but I think we know enough to have a general idea for why Peter hated Walter as much as he did.

                “Remember in 2.13, how Peter sold all of Walters precious manuscripts from his father to get back at Walter. Why? They never really went into that.”

                My impression of that situation was that Peter sold Walter’s books because he knew they were important to Walter and he was angry with Walter and he essentially wanted to hurt Walter by doing something that he knew Walter wouldn’t like — selling the books that he valued. In the episode, Peter tells Olivia that he wasn’t too fond of Walter at the time he sold the books and that he was aware that the books were some of his favorite possessions. So it makes sense to conclude that Peter was intentionally selling the books to get back at Walter for all the hurt and anger that he caused Peter and his mother.

                “Sometimes, it doesn’t matter how far you change/become happy with life, when past issues raise their head, you revert back to how you have coped before.”

                Oh, I completely agree. I’m not saying that the development we’ve seen in Peter over the past year meant that he would always be that way. It makes complete sense for Peter to respond to the anger and betrayal he’s feeling in the same way as he did before. I was simply pointing out that Peter’s behavior over the last few episodes doesn’t strike me as extremely out of character because it was just showing how Peter was developing and adjusting to his life and how he was truly happy. Being happy with the people around him and with the things he’s working on, there would be no reason for him to continue to be bitter and short tempered and impatient as he was in the beginning of the series when he was still very angry at Walter.

                So, inkblood, to answer your question, I expect we’ll see a mixture of the old Peter and the Peter we’ve come to know and love. I think the more dominant part we’ll see will be the angry Peter — the Peter who didn’t want anything to do with anyone else, and only cared about himself and only relied on himself. This experience with Walter and Olivia must feel like confirmation that he can’t trust anyone because they will only turn on you and hurt you. I think we’re going to see a lot more of the Peter we saw in early Season 1. But I think it will be slightly different. I think there will be a certain amount of vulnerability, a bit of regret. He’s not just angry, he’s hurt. He genuinely cared for Olivia and Walter, so despite being angry with them, he’s going to miss them and the “odd little family” they had formed. So I think there will still be a bit of a soft side in the midst of the anger he will show. I think he will be reluctant to let them (or anyone) into his life again, but at the same time, I think he will miss them, so if they can find him and talk to him, he might let them back in, at first just to a limited extent, but gradually a little more.

                Okay… I’m going to go be quiet now…

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                • Inkblood says

                  Ok, now that you all have beat me down with your sticks of fringe theory, I get to talk about minor, unimportant things;
                  1) We began to see a little romance with Olivia and Peter. I believe they can be friends again, once THEWRATHOFPETER has cooled, but will that romance ever come back into full bloom? I doubt it. :-( It’s looking bad for us shippers.
                  2) Just asking for personal opinions; how long till Peter is ready to start forgiving?
                  3) Who will take the outcome of Peter’s depature harder? Olivia or Walter? And how do you think they’ll cope?

                  Ok, I’m done with my stupid questions…just getting the snowball rolling down the hill…

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                  • mlj102 says

                    “Ok, now that you all have beat me down with your sticks of fringe theory”

                    I hope you’re saying that in a teasing way — I definitely wasn’t trying to “beat up” you or your theories…

                    As for your questions:

                    1. Possible Peter/Olivia romance: I wouldn’t say it’s impossible. That’s not to say Peter’s going to forgive Olivia and they’ll just pick up right where they left off, but there’s no reason to think that they won’t still get there eventually. Any relationship is going to go through tests and challenges — this is just one of those things for Peter and Olivia. And if they can move past it, then over time I think it will allow their relationship to become that much stronger.
                    2. How long until Peter can forgive? That’s tricky and it depends on a lot of things. In some ways, I think events in the near future may force him to work with Olivia and Walter again, even though he may not be too fond of the idea, but that could lead to him starting to forgive. I still maintain that it will be easier for him to forgive Olivia, and, therefore, that should come faster than his forgiveness for Walter. But it all really depends on just how angry he is, how willing he is to look at things from their perspectives, and what events take place. Personally, I would like to see him at least showing signs of moving towards forgiveness by the end of the season, but that might be pushing it…
                    3. That’s a hard question. I think they will both take it hard, but in their own ways. Of course Walter will take it hard — this is the most important thing in his life. Without Peter, I think he will feel there’s little substance left in his life. He’s going to be depressed and lonely and very unhappy and I don’t think he’ll see any purpose to anything. He won’t care. Plus, there’s the added threat of being forced to return to St. Claire’s. But, on the other hand, Walter is also a naturally fun person. He gets distracted and finds happiness in really little, simple things. That’s not to say he’s going to get over Peter’s absence at all easily, but I do think he will be able to find some happiness here and there. They’ll still be working on cases, which he typically gets excited about, and he’ll have Ella around next episode, and Astrid will be there to support him… Olivia cares about Peter in a very different way than Walter does, but her feelings for him are still just as deep. There has been a lot of discussion about how much she has come to rely on him and how he has become a very important person in her life. Losing Peter is yet another hard blow in a long line of losses in the life of Olivia Dunham. She’s going to feel alone and heartbroken and like she has no one left to turn to. She’s already like a bird with a broken wing, and I think this is going to injure her even more. She’ll go along working and doing her job, but I don’t think we’ll see her smiling very much or enjoying life. I think in a lot of ways, she’ll simply be going through the motions. She’s not particularly fond of Walter right now, and she’s never had an extremely close friendship with Astrid. I think life is going to be very hard for her. And without Peter’s support, the pressure of the job is going to get to her more, as well. I also wouldn’t be surprised if we see her more hardened than before. Losing Peter will really hurt her and, as a result, I think she’s going to be reinforcing those walls she puts around her to protect herself. So I don’t really think you can say that one of them will feel his loss more than the other — they’ll both feel it just as hard, but in different ways.

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                    • Inkblood says

                      “I hope you’re saying that in a teasing way — I definitely wasn’t trying to “beat up” you or your theories…”
                      Hee hee. Yes, I was just teasing. No harm done. :-)

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  18. Frobozz says

    I think the lingering shot of the Secretary’s nose is supposed to “lead us by the nose” to a conclusion. The Secretary’s nose is exactly like Walter’s. But, if you re-watch the earlier episodes, William Bell’s nose is very similar as well.

    At any rate, the shapeshifter question really needs some more answers. Was just re-watching “Grey Matters”…the hippie chick was seeing shapeshifters a long time before the current events, and before the events that got Walter committed to St Claire’s. So how long have they been around? And why? It wasn’t clear if this was before or after Peter’s abduction from the other side…she says she knew Peter “as a baby” and was about to say something further about him “being different” when the LSD kicked in. Makes sense that the shape-shifters would have started coming over here after Peter’s abduction from their side.

    I think the defective shape-shifter was recognizing Walter as it’s creator. After it’s revival it was simply repeating it’s orders. It turns, recognizes Walter, and then apologizes.

    The Secretary’s hyperbaric chamber reminds us of both David Robert Jones post-teleportation, and William Bell with his oxygen tank.

    Oh well…we have to wait a whole two weeks before we get on track again to find out more. Thanks again Fox for wasting a WHOLE episode on a promo for another show.

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  19. LizW65 says

    “So how long have they been around? And why? It wasn’t clear if this was before or after Peter’s abduction from the other side…she says she knew Peter “as a baby” and was about to say something further about him “being different” when the LSD kicked in. Makes sense that the shape-shifters would have started coming over here after Peter’s abduction from their side.”

    Would Rebecca Kibner have described a seven-year-old as “just a baby”? I’m not so sure. “Just a child”, maybe. Personally, I think the shapeshifters had arrived even before Peter was abducted–this would also explain why “our” Peter had no memory of Rebecca–it also raises a whole slew of questions about what they were doing here, if the interdimensional war was NOT kicked off by Walter’s abduction of Peter, but in fact started several years earlier.

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    • mlj102 says

      I know that the majority of viewers seem to have the opinion that the war between the two sides was started when Walter crossed over and took Peternate, but I have been reluctant to accept that for the same reasons you have mentioned. It doesn’t fit with the timeline. Besides the inconsistencies mentioned with the shapeshifters, we also know that Walter and William were experimenting with Cortexiphan in 1981-1983, several years before Peter died and Walter crossed over. The whole purpose of Cortexiphan was to give the children abilities, allow them to see things from the other side, and to make them protectors for our side in an eventual war. Walter has stressed numerous times that in doing the Cortexiphan trials, their only intention was to help the children, to protect them. But if the war was started when Walter crossed over, what were they doing preparing for a war several years before that? In Momentum Deferred, William Bell mentions that he and Walter had predicted a war would come. But something must have happened to cause them to expect that a war would eventually happen. They must have had a more substantial reason for preparing children for a war other than the mere hunch that there just might happen to be a war between two realities during the time these kids are still alive. So while taking Peter might have added to the war between the two realities, I don’t think it’s what caused it. I imagine something else had to have happened that set things in motion and caused Walter and William to think a war might actually be in the near future.

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      • Alison says

        Great points! I love how you take everything into consideration! :)

        That’s what I’ve always thought too. Especially, like you mentioned, with the Cortexiphan trails thrown into the mix. I HAVE been rather curious to know about where Walter and Bell got their knowledge, to have even prompted the trails in the first place. I’m also hoping that we receive more insight into the mysterious ZFT, I don’t think we’ve barely heard of them since season one. Do you think that creepy, nut job from “Fracture” could be part of the organization? Anyway, I think Walter blames himself for more than he should, even though there is still a lot. I’m sure most of his blame, whether it be related or not, stems from the burden of what he did those 25 years ago. ;)

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  20. edgesight says

    Now we know that two of the four people that knew about Peter are dead. His mother and the assistant. Peter’s mother made a point to tell us that Peter didn’t know anyone. Nina and Bell also knew. We see Nina in this universe and Bell in the other but no Bell in this universe. Food for thought.

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    • Alison says

      Well remember though, the Bell in the alt-universe IS supposedly Bell from our universe. They’ve stated that several times. And due to the fact that we’ve never had any insight on “Bellternate”, that’s why I still believe that “the Secretary” COULD be him. Emphasis on “could”, because it’s still just a theory of mine. Though everyone still won’t detour from the idea that it’s Walternate, which makes sense in some ways, but right now DOESN’T in even more. Still, that is a very good point you bring up about the deaths of those who know about Peter, I never reflected on that before. :)

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  21. says

    The thing w/ the alternate universes clashing this time is mainly going to revolve around Peter. When that gets “handled” though not necessarily resolved w/ the characters emotions, then we’ll go back to the “war” that Walter and William were preparing the children for.

    I do hope the “bad” Walter survives and is the foil that expands the mythology of the show. John Noble can play bad Walter as well as good Walter (just remember he played Denethor, the Steward of Gondor, in “The Lord of the Rings”.

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    • Inkblood says

      “The thing w/ the alternate universes clashing this time is mainly going to revolve around Peter.”
      The first ripple(unless bell was not in berlin, as Nina said) was Walter saving Peter. So not only does revolve around him, it started with him.

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  22. Xochitl says

    “As for the identity of Mr. Secretary, it could be Walternate or Bell. In my dream of dreams I’d love for it to be alter David Jones. ”
    That would be so awesome! it would completely connect ZFT and everything else, but I doubt it :(, my money is on Walternate
    just because I can’t find a good reason for Bell to come back home and to also be associated with Newton, it would be weird
    if Bell warned Olivia about the war and he were the man behind it.

    About Peter’s secret, yes, it has been dragged long enough, more than enough I would say, what is probably bothering me
    about that, and you expressed it so well by saying that FOX literarilly ruined the episode with that preview last week; is that
    I was expecting the Iroshima bomb and I got some lame firework, and I wanted to know more about the reactions of everybody else, and
    that tiny scene at the end wasn’t enought. I have to give credit that for the writters not to give
    Josh and Jhon a big shouting scene they were awesome, the gradual changes on Josh’s eyes just for us to see how he is
    changing before our eyes, I have always thought that the expressions on Peter’s face gave more away than his actions; now
    I don’t know if they are going to give us the big shout match at all. And as you mentioned on Jacksonville, that the whole
    episode felt like it had been purpousely leaded to olivia findind out, this one was just for Peter to find out, it was
    too coincidencial, too matchy, I know I sound horrible, I’m not saying that is a bad episode, it’s just that maybe the
    writters have dragged this so long that it felt kind of obvious and horribly predictable; and Peter telling Olivia about
    his mother in this specific episode, why did they do that? why add Elizabeth to the mixture right now, it felt to me like
    they had the idea for that dialogue two second before they started to shoot the scene, along the same lines with the “dad”
    thing, yes, it was sweet, it was fitting, but like the change of personality of Peter on the last episodes it is just
    serving a purpose, I feel manipulated, even worse that with the almost-kiss.

    “I really liked the fact that Peter addressed Walter before letting Olivia know that he knew, though his resentment towards
    Olivia was obvious beneath his veneer.” I have the horrible feeling that Peter knew that Olivia was in with the secret,
    again his eyes said everything, and yes, he had to go, it was old Peter would do.

    “if they can “jump start” the shape-shifter embryo, why didn’t they try doing that with Evil Charlie and the other shape-shifters
    that have since passed on to the shape-shifting heaven in the sky?” Could it be the bullets inside their heads? this one
    was damaged on the way not killed and damaged on this side and having to substain a personality?

    About the door: I have had this thing in my head a for along while, on s1, on the ZFT manuscript it said something like
    that this wasn’t a war or revenge but of survival, something like that, and all we have seen: NEwton bein so polite, not
    killing Walter when he could have and would have been the logical solution, waiting for the universes to go in sync, it
    looks more and more to me as if they are trying to damage as little as possible on the way, of course this theory goes out of
    the window with the Colliding worlds thing, but maybe even the colliding isn’t their fault, maybe it’s more like an
    unstopable thing, so if they secreaty had to wait for this match of the worls maybe it’s because they don’t want to make
    more damage?

    mlj102: “While I can understand him wanting to seek out his origins at some point, I do think it would be somewhat… presumptuous?…
    for him to go looking for his real parents.” that’s why I think the secretary is Waltarnate, for what we know so far Peter is
    going to Seatle, looking for Newton for what I pressume is to cross over, but of course he is going to have doubts, trust in
    Newton, leave Olivia and Walter behind for good, then somewhere I read that “someone comes visiting” which I assume is
    WAlternate, if Peter sees even a glimpse of hope that someone wants him back home he won’t hesistate to go, but I don’t
    think is going to be that simple since Olivia and Walter are going after him, I mean, why would you go after him if he is
    going to be fine? even is he is in another universe, Olivia won’t let Walter cross just to bring Peter back, there had to
    be something else. I also think that Elizabeth, Peter’s real mom, is going to have to do with him coming back here, forgiving
    Olivia and at least tolerate Walter,because for obvious plot reasons he is coming back, right?

    I’m also thinking that maybe we will found out something about the beacon and seattle; walter hates the place and Mosley
    was coming from there.

    anita: I’m so with you on this one!

    “I know that the majority of viewers seem to have the opinion that the war between the two sides was started when Walter crossed
    over and took Peternate.” Now that you mention it, if Walter and Bell were doing the cortexiphan trial in 83 and they have
    already predicted the way, because they have been seen glimmers from the other side, it would sound like this war saw set
    before Walter took Peter, i mean, they had had to see something to say a war was coming between our worlds, I still don’t blane
    the war to walter, like you, it was just and addition, probably what made it worse, and I still think that maybe Bell is the one
    to blame, c’mon, who bought that story on “Peter” that he was in europe? and all the technology which he founded massyve dynamic
    is probably from the other side.

    And I was thinking, the next episode has to be about Fringe division looking for Peter, meaning the plot would not
    move a lot so why don’t do it in a different way, I mean, Fringe is about different, just saying, I’m
    still not justifying “BRown Betty”, but I’m trying to see it in a “positive” light, and for the preview it looks likes they
    are going hard with symbolism, on a scene Peter has the same map Olivia did on “There is more than one of everything” about the
    inscidents, in symbolism that would mean that he is indeed looking for a soft spot to get to the other side.

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    • mlj102 says

      I didn’t view the episode as contrived or predictable as you seemed to feel it was. Yes, there were aspects of it that were done for the purpose of the story (such as leaving the FBI agent on the bridge so he could die while Peter lived, helping Peter to realize the truth on his own) but I didn’t find those things extremely distracting or unpleasant. I thought the story itself with the shapeshifters continuing towards their goal of opening a door and bringing their leader over here, etc., made complete sense in progressing the story as a whole. Saying that this episode was contrived simply to reveal to Peter that he’s from the other side, would be like saying Ability was contrived simply to show that Olivia has some special, mysterious power (maybe not the perfect example, but it’s the first thing I could think of and I think it fits my purposes). It’s just part of the story.

      Peter had to find out somehow — and that reveal is central to the whole story. They couldn’t just have some random story, then insert Peter finding out or Walter telling Peter, and keep it separate. It made sense to have it connected to the events of the episode. I liked that he found out in the midst of solving the case. As much as it would have been better for the characters if Walter had personally told Peter the truth, I have always suspected Peter would find out by accident, in the course of an investigation, and I believe that makes for a more compelling story. And even if Walter had gone ahead and been the one to tell him the truth, I would expect that something about the case they worked on would have lead to him finally being able to tell the truth so that the reveal and the episode flowed together. I didn’t see anything wrong with the way they handled Peter learning the truth. The worst part about it, as has been mentioned, was that FOX completely revealed that aspect of the show before it happened. And that wasn’t the producers’ fault. How would you suggest they reveal the truth to him without it being contrived?

      I liked Peter calling Walter dad. Yes, it can be viewed as simply another way in which the episode was contrived, in order to make Peter’s anger even more heartbreaking, but I thought it was a logical thing. Actually, given how much Peter has come to care for Walter, it’s almost more unbelievable that he wouldn’t be calling Walter “dad” by this point at least on occasion. I think it fit with the way their relationship has developed over this last season.

      I know some people believe that it took too long for Peter to learn the truth. Of course, most people seemed to expect that Peter wouldn’t find out until the Season 2 finale, so in that case, the reveal actually came a bit sooner than people thought. Personally, if they had waited for the Season 2 finale I would have found that to be incredibly predictable and a bit boring. I like the time table they used. I thought that, by stretching it out over this season, they were able to fully explore the issue, to increase the tension little by little, and to show how Walter became increasingly more nervous with the idea of losing Peter, then to have Olivia discover the truth, threatening to expose Walter’s secret, all leading up to Peter learning the truth. And, in turn, Peter learning the truth this close to the finale contributes to building up for the finale. I think the timing was perfect.

      “why add Elizabeth to the mixture right now, it felt to me like they had the idea for that dialogue two second before they started to shoot the scene”

      I really don’t understand how you can view the reveal about Elizabeth to be a sloppy, last minute addition. I thought it fit in very well with the episode and what was going on, and it’s information that we’ve been waiting for for over a year, so we’ve earned it! Peter told Olivia about his mother because that was his best guess for why Walter was acting so strange. I don’t see how Peter speculating about what’s bothering Walter can be viewed as any sort of problem with the episode. It makes sense to me. Now, if Peter had just randomly approached Olivia and said “Remember when you asked about my mom over a year ago? Well, I just thought I’d tell you now that she committed suicide, though Walter lied and told me she’d died in a car accident.” — that would have been completely random and would have seemed like a last minute addition.

      Plus, it gives a lot of insight into the Bishop family. It explains a lot of why Peter had such negative feelings towards his father. It also shows that lying to Peter had become a bit of second nature to Walter. He essentially lied to Peter about everything Peter cared about. And though it could be argued that he was protecting Peter, when Peter learned the truth (both about his mother’s suicide and about where he comes from) he sure didn’t see it as a good thing. And I think it’s interesting that Peter had come to terms with Walter lying about his mother’s death — he forgave Walter and understood that he had good reasons for lying to him. That’s a sharp contrast to how he reacted when he found out about where he comes from. He was so angry, he wouldn’t even consider that Walter might have had good reasons for what he did. And yet, maybe it’s a bit of foreshadowing that, just like Peter was able to forgive Walter for lying about his mother’s death, he will one day be able to forgive Walter for lying to him about where he comes from and for essentially kidnapping him.

      “for what we know so far Peter is going to Seatle, looking for Newton for what I pressume is to cross over, but of course he is going to have doubts, trust in Newton, leave Olivia and Walter behind for good… if Peter sees even a glimpse of hope that someone wants him back home he won’t hesistate to go”

      Again, I have to disagree with you here (and maybe I’m just misunderstanding what you’re saying). Yes, I believe Peter will want to investigate his true origins (either immediately, or sometime in the future), and maybe he would even want to cross over to the other side at some point. But I don’t see him choosing to trust Newton for a second. No matter how angry he may be at Walter, he’s been trying to apprehend Newton for months. I don’t think he’s just going to suddenly switch sides or feel like he can trust Newton just because he’s angry at Walter. Besides, Peter works in a more subtle way. He works behind the scenes, getting involved with less noticeable people who can still help him get what he wants, hence his mob connections and random acquaintances. So I don’t really see him as going straight to the source of the other side. I think he would take a less direct approach and attempt to figure things out more on his own.

      But even then, I don’t see him being able to abandon Walter and Olivia like that and start working against them by being on the other side and helping those over there. Yes, he’s angry at both of them, but the majority of his anger comes from the fact that he cares about them so much. He’s more hurt than anything. Because of those feelings he’s developed for them, I think he’s going to realize that, despite being angry with what they did, he still cares about them and wants them in his life. And I don’t think he’d be able to find that on the other side because, while their doubles may look like them, they’re not the same people — they won’t be the people he has come to know and love. So he’ll either be unable to be around the doubles on the other side because they look just like the people he’s still angry with, or he won’t be able to be around the doubles because they look like the people he cares about, but they’re not really them and won’t be able to fill that hole in his life.

      It’s always neat to read your perspective on things — thanks for sharing!

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      • LizW65 says

        “Yes, I believe Peter will want to investigate his true origins (either immediately, or sometime in the future), and maybe he would even want to cross over to the other side at some point. But I don’t see him choosing to trust Newton for a second. No matter how angry he may be at Walter, he’s been trying to apprehend Newton for months. I don’t think he’s just going to suddenly switch sides or feel like he can trust Newton just because he’s angry at Walter.”

        Interesting–I’ve been thinking about much the same thing, as there seems to be a consensus on other sites that peter would switch allegiances and essentially “turn evil” once he knew the truth of his origins. Frankly, I find this hard to swallow–it’s the kind of abrupt, unrealistic character change done solely to service the plot that I would expect from daytime soaps or “24″., and I like to think that the Fringe writers will be a lot more subtle in their approach.

        I honestly don’t see him running off to help Newton either–however angry he may be at the Fringe team, Peter doesn’t seem like the type to take elaborate revenge–he just abandons people and situations when they become too much for him to deal with.

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      • Xochitl says

        “I thought the story itself with the shapeshifters continuing towards their goal of opening a door and bringing their leader over here, etc., made complete sense in progressing the story as a whole. Saying that this episode was contrived simply to reveal to Peter that he’s from the other side, would be like saying Ability was contrived simply to show that Olivia has some special, mysterious power (maybe not the perfect example, but it’s the first thing I could think of and I think it fits my purposes). It’s just part of the story. ” You see! you always make me rethink what I wrote before. I know i sounded to harsh with the episode, to be honest i have only watched it once, I don’t have access to internet as much as i would want and i can download it this time, so, again, I’m not saying is the worse episode ever, because it’s not! but, and this is probably me, i waited so long and i was so excited that I perhaps didn’t feel as fulfilled as i would have wanted to, and is just so fringy that i went home after posting this and i knew you would say something like this, :) maybe my disaapointment comes more from the fact that the preview revealed a lot more than it should.

        “Peter had to find out somehow — and that reveal is central to the whole story. They couldn’t just have some random story, then insert Peter finding out or Walter telling Peter, and keep it separate. It made sense to have it connected to the events of the episode.” copletely agree, it would have been worse, i expected too him to find on his own and through and investigation, the dad part, I don’t hate it, it had to be there, i just don’t like to find fringe predictable, a big part of what I love this show for is because it makes me think so damn much, and the dad part i can totally overlook.

        “if they had waited for the Season 2 finale I would have found that to be incredibly predictable and a bit boring.” yes, I don’t discuss that, again predictibily would have suck, again i just feel they dragg it too much with some episodes, like unearthed, it wasn’t a wate of time, they had to prepare for this, i don’t know, Maybe i’m beind to harsh.

        “Plus, it gives a lot of insight into the Bishop family. It explains a lot of why Peter had such negative feelings towards his father.” the thinkg with elizabeth, yes it gives me a bigger insight, Joshua jackson mentione in an interview that we would later find out why Elizabeth had a big part on why Peter is so broken, I think this was it, i feel the timing was off, for me, not enterily wrong.

        “But I don’t see him choosing to trust Newton for a second” Oh god, I surely wrote something wrong because i wasn’t implying that, what I was tryign to say is that if Peter wants to cross, he is to pisied and hurt at Olivia and Walter now, so he won’t go for them to help him cross (but at some pointe i really hoped for that) they maybe even want to stop him, and if peter has no other choide to cross, the technology mainly, he would go with someone who could help, but no, i don’t he would turn bad and start fighting walter and olivia, and Newton can help him to cross, but Peter definetly would not trust him, I’m just saying that his need for answers is going to be bigger than everyghing.

        See, i practically retract on everything i said, I like your comments and insights too. thanks for sharing your thoughts! :)

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  23. MikeMike says

    I just wished that Peter could’ve heard Walter’s explanation before he disappeared.

    I think “you were dying, I brought you back to save your life with the intent to take you back, but your mother saw you in my lab and I couldn’t bring myself to break her heart again” is probably a good explanation.

    Instead Peter goes back to blaming everything on Walter just like he did in the past.

    Maybe Peter needs to grow up a bit and stop being a little tit-pisser about Walter.

    MM

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  24. rekwin says

    Forgive me if this has already been mentioned but why didn’t the FBI take out the guy with the truck load of equipment on the other side of the bridge? Are we to believe that the Boston PD only had resources on one side of the river? The fate of the entire universe was at stake yet the best the FBI could do was send in Peter with a thumper? No helicopters, snipers, etc. available to save the planet? This would have been more plausible (strange word for a fringe episode) if Newton were hidden away somewhere rather than in plain site. This is the sort of stuff that drives me crazy. I’m willing to suspend disbelief on the subject of multiple universes but not this..

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  25. JustForFun says

    I can’t stop thinking about the way Peter is waking up at the hospital. Just before he’s opening his eyes and see Olivia, we can hear some sounds like… how explain… it’s sounds like a machine more than a person. I know it’s crazy but it’s Fringe so… lol

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  26. October says

    Did anybody else *OBSERVE* that Broyles’s license plate says “C3P0″ and Olivia’s license plate said “R2D2″ in this episode?

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