Fringe Romance: Six Possible Ways Olivia Could Forgive Peter


I don’t wanna talk” – the words dripped from Altlivia’s mouth like honey from a honey cake, and Peter was the bee who wanted to get busy. In spite of his doubts over Olivia’s weird behaviour – he was ready to level-up, to get his, and no talk make Peter happy!

As Fringe often dabbles in the parallel, the same words may well be echoed at a future point by Olivia when Peter tries to explain why he did what he did (if indeed he did it). And this time, instead of an explosion of unbridled joy, Peter may find himself on the end of the Dunhamnator’s right hook.

But as the dust begins to settle on the bedroom debacle, perhaps Peter can somehow find his way out of another fine mess? Maybe..just maybe this is just a (gigantic) speed bump on their path to eternal love?

With that in mind, we try to stay positive for the pair by scrambling together 6 possible ways in which Olivia might learn to forgive her wayward man.


Before we give hope to Peter, let’s just say that this post is based on the premise that he did actually do the deed with Altlivia. That’s our disclaimer in case the writers pull a fast one!

1. ‘Perspective’.

Olivia might find her self believing that it’s not really his fault. I mean, yes, he blatantly ignored the alarm bells and seems to have submerged his brains to his lower regions, but the whole reality switcheroo thing, the war, the undercover spy thing? That’s not really his fault. (although he probably should have stayed Over There to talk things through with Walternate).

2. ‘He was kinda with me, Right?’.

Olivia might convince herself that while Peter may not exclusively love her, he does seem to love a version (or versions) of her. The haunted version for the Mondays and the playful version for the weekends, that sort of thing. Could this enough for the Dunhamnator? Will she take what she can get?

3. ‘He was between a rock and a very hard place’.

Olivia knows more than most knows what it’s like to have one’s reality flipped upside down, perhaps she’ll have sympathy for Peter once she finds out that he didn’t know his Olivias from his Altlivias? Maybe her own experiences on the other side will make Peter’s shenanigans with Altlivia less personal and more forgivable?

4. ‘It’s not you, it’s me’.

Perhaps Olivia will discover that, actually, she’s not really all that into Peter, and thus finds it easier to forgive him? Maybe her time on the other side will broaden her horizons to the point where she believes that Peter is more friend material than the love of her life?

“It’s not you, Petah, it’s me”. :o

5. ‘Denial’.

Let’s face it, Olivia is good at that. She denied her own ability for long enough, and managed to block out years of child abuse, and yes, even her growing feelings for Peter, so maybe she will be able to deny the fact that Peter and Altlivia ever slept in her bed performing all manner of unimaginable acts (and by ‘acts’ I mean Broadway plays, naturally). Perhaps she’ll block it out or convince herself that it never happened – “The elephant in the room doesn’t exist. Petah, take that elephant outside!”

6. ‘I knew it wasn’t you all along, Liv’.

Say what!? Peter might pull the ultimate rabbit from his hat and claim that he knew all along that Altlivia wasn’t Olivia. His defence?

“I was playing along so that I could get informations about the war, and stuff”.

With her mind in pieces, Olivia might find herself accepting Peter’s pathetic excuse.

These are just six possible ways in which Olivia could some day learn to forgive (or forget) Peter’s indiscretion. In truth, I don’t think she can overlook what he did. People do manage to repair relationships broken by affairs but how many of them involve the guy sleeping with the woman’s doppelganger? The closest thing you can really get to that would be if Peter slept with Olivia’s sister (or mother), and I’m not touching that one with a ten-foot pole.

But perhaps you can think of other scenarios by which the pieces of their ‘great love’ can be repaired and reformed? Can healing be brought to their world?

Meanwhile, Remember Petah. Remember..

The above clip belongs to Fox. Watch free Fringe episodes in their entirety on the FOX website or via Hulu. Go on, treat yourselves. You deserve it.

Comments

  1. Becca says

    Anything but nr.6! I will think Fringe jumped the shark for the first time if they come up with “Peter knew it all along!” That will be very lousy writing and it will be the only way I won’t sympathize with Peter.

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  2. *lilli* says

    well,actually number six still saves Peter’s IQ at least.. :D
    But seriously, I kinda think that the “I didn’t know” thing might be quite lame….c’mon,he’s not only supposed to be smart,but also very perceptive emotion-wise,so how did he not noticed this Olivia always sweating for fear of being discovered??
    So yeah,probably I will be angry,but at least that won’t be lousy writing ;)

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  3. number six says

    1. Maybe.

    2. No.

    3. Maybe.

    4. I like that one.

    5. No.

    6. And no. It is fun to speculate, that he knows and I’d prefer this option to the icky implications of rape, but I don’t really believe he knows.

    Out of all of those, I think the writers could go for Nr. 4, because I think that they are in love, but not with each other, but rather with the idea they have of each other. And that goes for Olivia too with her Head Peter, who is hilariously unlike the real Peter. Maybe they will decide that romance is not for them and they will remain good working partners after all :D

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  4. LizW65 says

    Really? I actually like option #6 the best of all of these, but I’m hoping (and expecting) it will be #7, None of the Above.
    Fringe has such a way of surprising me completely and putting their own twist on so many situations that I fully expect something totally out of left field.

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    • SF says

      Me too, I like #6 best of all too. Of course I do! It’s still a dastardly deed, but redeemable, though icky, too, if I think about it long enough. He didn’t have to sleep with her, nor she with him, because they really were just starting out on their relationship. They haven’t even managed a full date yet! *sigh* no matter what, I see a very rocky road ahead for my favourite tv couple.

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  5. Jimbo says

    What about if Olivia sleeps with Frank? Both acts would cancel each other out and possibly allow forgiveness on both sides.

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    • Ajewell says

      Haha, that’s exactly what I was thinking! The scenarios are very similar, especially if she sleeps with Frank after “seeing” Peter and hearing his warnings. Basically, she would be guilty of the same thing . . . though, arguably, on a lesser scale, considering she was drugged and has an excuse. Though I bet she’ll feel guilty regardless, and still blame herself.

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      • Xindilini says

        Well. Olivia and Frank had to have spent at least 2 nights together in 3×03. Assuming they still share the same bed. (Signs of domestic life.)

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  6. fedorafadares says

    Though I don’t like it, per se, I’m with No. 6 — “I knew it all along.”

    I think Peter’s little talk about transactional relationships was telling Altlivia that she had something he wanted — and by that I mean information and a connection to the other side — that he was willing to cross a moral line to obtain.

    I’m choosing to think he’s going to any lengths to get Olivia back home safely and isn’t that a common theme in the show: how far would you go for someone you love?

    Still stinks for Olivia, though.

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    • says

      “I think Peter’s little talk about transactional relationships was telling Altlivia that she had something he wanted — and by that I mean information and a connection to the other side — that he was willing to cross a moral line to obtain.

      I’m choosing to think he’s going to any lengths to get Olivia back home safely”

      One of the main problems I’d have with this is that for all he knows Olivia could be dead. :o Would Peter be willing to go to those lengths to get information without even knowing if his Olivia is safe? I’m not sure he’d be able to block out those crippling thoughts with the level of calm he’s been showing. I think it would be somewhat out of character (considering how much concern he has displayed in the past whenever Walter has gotten himself lost).

      I also have doubts that he would he broadcast his intent to Altlivia (however subtle) if he was truly onto her game?

      As much as I want to get Peter out of a hole, I think #6 would be incredibly hard to swallow. The writers have taken liberties in the past, but this would be right up there, imo. :)

      That said, we’ll see. After all, we are talking about Peter here.

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      • BklynBetty says

        “One of the main problems I’d have with this is that for all he knows Olivia could be dead. Would Peter be willing to go to those lengths to get information without even knowing if his Olivia is safe?”

        I don’t really want to interrupt and I will be brief- but, I agree with you Roco that that was a major sticking point for me – Peter’s apparent lack of concern. I thought he’d be kicking down doors for sure. But, i think, he has to assume that she is alive until he knows otherwise. What kind of partner, never mind the whole b/f thing, would *want* to jump to that sort of conclusion as reasonable as it may appear? If ALtLiv was a shifter – then yes, it would be completely logical – but, he is at least aware that there is another alternative – (pun not really intended…sorry), which means she might be alive. In which case, it’s *possible* that he is playing it cool.
        Then again, maybe it’s a contrivance to allow Altliv to be here successfully as long as Olivia remains in the AU.

        Unrelatedly – i’m kind of new here and i wanted to thank you for all the posts and polls and everything – i have become incredibly addicted in a really short time and cannot imagine getting through these next few weeks without this site! I was just catching up on the Fringe Awards from Season 2 – and the poll about the character’s Addictions has me almost in tears!!

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        • says

          Hi BklynBetty, I agree that it’s ‘possible’ for Peter to be playing it cool. I wouldn’t rule it out completely – in fact, as much as it would shock me on a character level, we’ve had major contrivances before (which is what I’d consider this to be), so you never know.

          That said, personally, I don’t think it makes enough sense for Peter to secretly know. Subconsciously, certainly, because as difficult as it is to see Peter miss the obvious, it’s more in-line with the type of character he is and the themes at the forefront of the story.

          I see what you’re saying regarding Peter not wanting to jump to the conclusion that Olivia is dead. I guess my point is that – for all he knows, she could be. I think it’s natural to consider the worst in extreme situations, especially since Peter Usain Bolted it back Over Here, in part, because he thought his father would sacrifice his life with the weapon. At the very least a conscious Peter would surely be concerned for Olivia’s safety. And as we know, he would have every right to be.

          The fact that Peter has displayed few notable signs of deceiving Altlivia, along with a lack of emotional weight and urgency in relation to not knowing whether Olivia is OK, is another reason – for me – to doubt that he knows. Not even a shapeshifter could be so emotionless under those circumstances. :)

          I agree with the whole situation being a contrivance (lesser of two storytelling evils) to enable Altliv to remain Over Here at least until the Dunhamnator returns. I kinda hate that the story has to work this way, but I’m more willing to accept it than the alternative ‘let’s redeem Peter through mega contrivance’ device.

          Just my opinion though. I wouldn’t expect all of us to see things the same way.

          Glad you enjoy the site, it’s good to have you on board the FB Train. :) Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

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      • fedorafadares says

        “I think it would be somewhat out of character (considering how much concern he has displayed in the past whenever Walter has gotten himself lost).”

        This is an excellent point I hadn’t considered. In “Do Shapeshifters…,” Peter practically pushes the elevator buttons through the wall in an effort to get to Walter when he suspects something dire may have happened!

        Great discussion, here!

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      • SF says

        LOL! Roco, are you saying that they have given Peter’s character carte blanche to get away with what other characters can’t get away with?? :-D
        It’s funny, but the only way I can stomach what AltLiv and Peter have done is to think of #6 as the most likely scenario. I think my main problem is that they didn’t have to go this far (Peter and AltLiv), so it makes me wonder, why did they chose this route? Is it what Fedorafedes says, that they are showing how far Peter will go to get his Olivia back? Why did they cross this line? It really makes me very interested in what happens to all of them now.

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      • Robert Gertz says

        I don’t think Peter knew it wasn’t Olivia. If he’d suspected, the embrace would have ended in a gun to her head and a trip to Massive Dynamic or Cambridge to dive into her brain to get the real Olivia back or at least confirm her death. He’s been remarkably dense, given he knows something’s off about her…At least check her for signs of mercury after the Senator, Pete. Actually it was Newton who fascinated and moved me here. He actually showed the most real emotion in his denial of the value of emotion belied by his rather touching devotion to Walternate and his duty.

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  7. BklynBetty says

    If Peter knows, and if he does it anyway, and assuming he has some great reason in his mind for doing so – i don’t think that he would expect that things with Olivia would just go back to normal. I think he is smarter than that. I also think that he respects olivia more than to expect that. She would forgive him, to an extent – especially if she believes that she ‘needs him by her side’ – but, i’m going to say Not enough to start dating him.

    Though, i do think you left one out: #7: She Pretends to forgive him, thereby eventually causing feelings of true forgiveness to develop a la Ray the Shifter. :D

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  8. lilli says

    “Would Peter be willing to go to those lengths to get information without even knowing if his Olivia is safe?”

    That is the great question!Probably he figured out that Olivia is somehow valuable for the other side,since he does know that she is the only one able to cross universes in a harmless way. It’s not reasonable to think that Walter would throw that away, don’t you think? So probably he’s guessing, and we should remember we’re still in the first days after returning from the Other Universe. He knows he has little time, but he still does have time, especially beacuse he figured out that the other side is looking for the device, and will probably need Olivia to transport it.

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    • says

      Fair points lilli, but I think that’s giving Peter too much credit. While he’s calm and laid back for the most part, we’ve seen him kick in doors and such when he’s not in control of a situation (i.e. 2.10).

      Let’s say he suspected that Olivia was still alive on the other side, would he really be able to be so calm? Would he be able to go ‘there’ with Altlivia without knowing for sure how Olivia was? Would he really believe that Olivia would thank him for that? :)

      And importantly, what useful information has he retrieved so far? Apart from Altlivia’s favorite music, I can’t really see what he has gained.

      Also, I should add that if Peter really thought that his father would sacrifice his own life to power the weapon (one of his reasons for returning), Peter should surely worry about Olivia’s safety – otherwise he’s being inconsistent.

      The idea of Peter secretly knowing the truth about Altlivia just doesn’t work for me as a realistic storytelling device. It would make Peter look smarter than he currently appears, but at what cost? I’d be shocked if the writers have taken this route. They’re usually good at twists, but I think this particular twist would seem cheap both on a character level and a story one.

      While it’s hard to watch Peter be so ignorant as to the differences in ‘Olivia’, I think that’s the better (albeit problematic) option.

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      • Becca says

        Exactly, Rocco. I don’t think I could like Peter if he suspects Olivia is trapped on the other side and he’s playing mind games with Bolivia to try to gather information, not even trying to know what happened and what they could do to help her. Telling Broyles about his suspicion, for example, would show his concern even if he couldn’t do anything. His lack of concern would be so out of character. And it would look very bad for Peter after Walter, Olivia, Nick, etc, crossed to the other side, without a solid plan, immediately after they knew that Peter was there and in possible danger.

        “While it’s hard to watch Peter be so ignorant as to the differences in ‘Olivia’, I think that’s the better (albeit problematic) option.”
        Absolutely!

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      • says

        What if, Peter really doesn’t have a clue. However it is after they have done the deed (self-censoring) that Altlivia says something or does something that is so un-Olivia like that it is then that he realizes that it is not Olivia. Then the guilt sets in…

        I would be willing to give Peter a pass (like a C-, so barely passing) on missing all of the other clues to Altlivia’s true identity. It still doesn’t make any sense to me, I still think Peter should know what’s up by now, but hey, I’d be willing to let my mind bend and accept the possibilities under the right circumstances.

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      • SF says

        “Let’s say he suspected that Olivia was still alive on the other side, would he really be able to be so calm? Would he be able to go ‘there’ with Altlivia without knowing for sure how Olivia was? Would he really believe that Olivia would thank him for that? :)

        And importantly, what useful information has he retrieved so far?”

        Well, Rocco, I’d say it’s not information now he’s hoping to gain, it’ AltLiv’s trust, and future answers he’s hoping to get. I think he sees AltLiv as his only way back, especially with Newton gone now, to the other side. Though I’m with you that he should be talking to Broyles at the least about his doubts, I also would like to think that Peter is smart. I find it really hard to accept that he would not know something was intrinsically different about this AltLiv from his Olivia, the way he did Over There. So maybe we should hope for a #7 unseen outcome that surprises us and takes us where none of us expected to go! I have no idea though what this could be.

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  9. Mireya says

    Ahhh! That video that you posted, it just seemed to make this whole situation worse. ;) I was thinking along the same lines of option #6. I hope the writers don’t go down that route. It would seem too easy of a way out. All we can do is speculate and keep going on this amazing ride. ;)

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  10. lilli says

    you’re right Roco,it still doesn’t make much sense…. :P
    I’m hoping that the writers will be much smarter than any of us and will come out with a better explanation at this point…or maybe I’m just delusional and yes, Olivia will never forgive Peter anyway, and that will make me incredibly sad, but hey…if it’ll be good storytelling, let it be ;)

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  11. Isa says

    Rocco said: “The idea of Peter secretly knowing the truth about Altlivia just doesn’t work for me as a realistic storytelling device. It would make Peter look smarter than he currently appears, but at what cost? I’d be shocked if the writers have taken this route. They’re usually good at twists, but I think this particular twist would seem cheap both on a character level and a story one.”

    This. Coudn’t agree more.

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    • SF says

      Since I’ve thought this was a possibility all along – that Peter is playing along, desparate to find out how to get back to the other side and figure out why AltLiv is over here – number 6 seems very possible to me, so I have to disagree with you and Roco on this one, Isa. I think I would be far more upset if he had no clue that it wasn’t his Olivia that came back, as he’s recognized the differences between them so easily and quickly before.

      It’s the other choices that leave me icky, because they are the ones that hurt Peter’s character.

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  12. charliefan19 says

    I think i’m gonna go with number 4. It’s a messy situation no matter how you look at it. Though I would like to think that Peter may be “playing along” – because that would, as said before, save his IQ – I don’t really believe that is the case. When someone he cares about is in trouble, he has a history of kicking down doors and getting somewhat worked up. If he believed this wasn’t his Olivia, I’d be more apt to see him turn into Jack Bauer and extract information from her the hard way. Not in her bedroom…

    That, or maybe I just miss Jack Bauer. Hmmm. Just a thought.

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  13. Karo says

    No.3 could work on some level. Someone can remind Olivia that she didn’t know it wasn’t the real Charlie she was working with after her accident. It is possible that he didn’t know.

    But still. They did such a bad job at showing Fauxlivia trying to blend in, that i’ll have a hard time buying it. We saw her studying Olivia’s file, look, manners and speach, i would have LOVED a scene where Fauxlivia completely flipped personnality for a second, doing something very Oliviaish and Peter going “oh there she is” (a la Walter in Over there part.1). It would have made this whole situation a lot easier to buy.

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    • number six says

      “They did such a bad job at showing Fauxlivia trying to blend in…”
      Altlivia has done very little to blend in, other than a good disguise and distracting Peter with love and sex. She has been very disappointing so far. I don’t know if the writers are bending our characters around the plot, just because they need to prolong the AU storyline or if they are doing it on purpose for some reason.

      If it’s on purpose, what are they trying to say? That nobody is noticing, because, like Peter, they are all in love with Olivia and they don’t want to see the truth? Or that nobody really cares and a bad copy is good enough for them?

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      • mlj102 says

        “Or that nobody really cares and a bad copy is good enough for them?”

        There. I think this is finally the statement that pinpoints why it bothers me so much that no one has even suspected that this isn’t their Olivia. Them not realizing the differences that are plainly there sends the message that they don’t mind that Olivia is suddenly not the same person she was. And the changes have not been for the better. It says that they weren’t that attached to everything that made our Olivia the person she was. It says that someone can come in and replace her in a superficial way, and it doesn’t matter. And that really bothers me.

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        • number six says

          Except that we know that’s not the truth, at least not in Peter’s case. We have the evidence in the S2 finale. After the initial surprise and pleasure to see a different Olivia in the AU, Peter didn’t show any interest in her at all. Did he try to flirt, when they were alone? Nope! When our Olivia (in disguise) and Charlie went to Peter’s apartment, he didn’t even look at her, until she started giving him signals, that she was his Olivia. A bad copy wasn’t good enough for him.

          So why the general blindness now? I don’t really think there is a purpose other than to prolong the plot, but if there is, it beats me. I put those two examples above as ridiculous and not to be taken seriously.

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          • mlj102 says

            I agree that it’s not true, but that’s the logical conclusion to make when alternate Olivia has been allowed to come in and do a poor job at blending in as our Olivia, and no one notices. I know that those on our side are very partial to our Olivia… but you sure wouldn’t be able to tell that based on their ignorance to her being replaced. That’s why the writers’ approach to this storyline bothers me, because it is unbelievable and out of character. But that’s the message I’m getting from the way this is playing out. And I don’t like it.

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            • VillianessMess says

              No offense but its not like Olivia is a “open” person to begin with. I also believe that Peter, Walter and astrid don’t revolve their lives around Olivia. She is not the ONLY thing going on right now.

              BTW, are peter, astrid and walter aware of the switch with the olivias? No they do not so give them a break.

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              • VillianessMess says

                BTW, have you ever changed something about yourself and not one single person mentions it? I have. I can change my hairstyle and not one person told me, “what a nice hairstyle”. why? Cause the world doesn’t revolve around me. They have OTHER stuff to worry about besides the way I do my hair, or the way I eat my food, etc.

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            • FinChase says

              “That’s why the writers’ approach to this storyline bothers me, because it is unbelievable and out of character.”

              There are many things about the way this storyline has been so far handled that bother me. I feel like they are missing so many good dramatic possibilities. There was/is more to Olivia’s life than Peter. Where are the scenes showing AltLivia having to navigate the emotional minefields of visits from Rachel and Ella? What about her dealings with Broyles, who is really quite tuned in to Olivia? I think Broyles, in particular, would not be blinded by emotion or lust where his agent is concerned. I can understand that AltLivia wouldn’t be able to get all the nuances right, but she’s failing quite spectacularly and no one really notices.

              Although we’ve only really had one episode “over there” where Olivia truly thought she was AltLivia, they seem to be doing a better job of exploring the dramatic possibilities on that side. “Over here”, the writers seem to be settling for a rather mundane “Peter’s sleeping with another woman and will Olivia forgive him when she finds out?” soap opera storyline that I thought Fringe was better than. That’s one of the reasons why I look forward to the “Over there” episodes much more. I hope they can right this ship, because the original idea of the Olivia switch was brilliant, and I think it’s a shame that they aren’t realizing the full dramatic possibilities.

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                • SF says

                  Other than Walter, no, VillianessMess, there isn’t much more to Peter’s life than Olivia! Almost everything he has done for the past two seasons has been because of and for her, to help her.

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              • number six says

                “There was/is more to Olivia’s life than Peter. Where are the scenes showing AltLivia having to navigate the emotional minefields of visits from Rachel and Ella?”

                Except that she came over here to manipulate Peter, that’s her mission. If she interacted with Rachel and Ella, as much as she would want to (I suppose), she would put her mission in danger. As a soldier, she can’t do that.

                Why doesn’t Broyles notice? I have no idea and I don’t know if they plan to explain it.

                ““Over here”, the writers seem to be settling for a rather mundane “Peter’s sleeping with another woman and will Olivia forgive him when she finds out?”

                I disagree with this. We are making the episodes over here about that. See how many posts have been dedicated to Peter sleeping with Altlivia as opposed to the minute it took in the episode. The last episode had more than this… Peter struggling with conflicting emotions and information, Walter dealing with the changes in his life, the shapeshifters evolving unexpectedly, how people are willing to believe everything is okay, in spite of the evidence to the contrary and so on and so on. My problem is not that Peter hasn’t realized Altlivia’s true identity or that they had sex, my problem is that they (Broyles, Walter, Peter,…) don’t talk about the weirdness. That’s the frustrating part.

                Of course, the shippers will worry about the possibility that Olivia might not forgive Peter. Personally, I won’t care too much as long as they can work together. If she forgives him, that will be perfect. If not, I’m okay with it, too. As Roco posted once, Peter and Walter are the love story of the show.

                Personally, I prefer the episodes over here, because the characters I’m invested in are in this universe. As much as I enjoy Charlie in the episodes over there and the little differences in the AU, Olivia is effectively gone. I would be more interested if I saw Olivia instead of Altlivia, but I only think of her as our Olivia, when she hallucinates Peter. The cases are the most interesting part for me. Then there is the problem that Olivia hallucinating a man, having conflicting memories and the use of the tank are rehashed plots from S1. All of them have been done and I’d be surprised if the outcome is different.

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                • mlj102 says

                  “We are making the episodes over here about that. See how many posts have been dedicated to Peter sleeping with Altlivia as opposed to the minute it took in the episode.”

                  I don’t think that’s necessarily true. Yes, fans are putting a lot of focus on that development in the show — but I think that was exactly the response the writers intended to generate. Yes, the final scene was about a minute long, but that whole story arc has been much longer and much more in the front focus. And that’s part of why it bugs me so much — it feels like it’s being forced on us. Every time we see over here, we’ve had alternate Olivia seducing Peter. The relationship feels shallow and fake, and not simply because it’s not our Olivia. There’s no substance to the relationship — all it is is a bunch of kissing so that alternate Olivia can distract Peter. If it were our Olivia, they would not be moving so fast. I’m quickly losing patience with the way they are forcing that “relationship” upon us. A big reason why the over here episodes feel shallow to me is because they have chosen to make such a shallow story the prime focus. It wouldn’t be so bad if they gave some substance to it, explored more of alternate Olivia and her true feelings, showed her interactions with more people than just Peter, etc. But as it is, it’s all about alternate Olivia and Peter in a relationship that isn’t even real, and everything else that happens is just an after thought or a side story to that. It’s really a disappointment to me.

                  “Then there is the problem that Olivia hallucinating a man, having conflicting memories and the use of the tank are rehashed plots from S1. All of them have been done and I’d be surprised if the outcome is different.”

                  Again, I’m sorry to say it, but I disagree. I don’t think this is simply a matter of them running out of ideas, so they’re going to reuse stories from Season 1. I’m more of the opinion that that story arc from Season 1 was done, knowing they would come back to it later in the series, and consequently it helped lay the foundation for what we’re getting now. Olivia is seeing Peter and Walter for reasons far different from why she saw John. So I don’t see that as reusing an old story, but rather bringing up parallels to an old story. And I’m fascinated to see her go back into the tank mainly because she did go in the tank before. I think it’s going to be very important that she’s been in the tank before. Maybe it will even bring out unknown details of the whole tank experience and will make us look at the season 1 tank story in a new way. Plus, they’re clearly using a different style of tank, which helps give it a separate feeling, rather than a recycled feeling.

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                  • number six says

                    “Every time we see over here, we’ve had alternate Olivia seducing Peter.”
                    It is true if you focus on the Altlivia character, who is a rather shallow character, but the episodes are not about her, unless you want them to be. If I watch them from the point of view of Walter, the episodes are about coping with Bell’s legacy, what it means to him, the new technology at his disposal and the huge responsibility, that comes with it. Then we have his difficult relationship with Peter, who has been alternatively cold and warm with him. Then we have Peter, who has to deal with the knowledge that he’s destined to destroy universes, not a small issue if you ask me; who has to take care of a crazy man, who kidnapped him, something he realized very recently. He can only trust one person, who is behaving a little strange in last… what was it 5 days? One week? And who only seems to offer physical comfort, and so on and so on… Walter, Peter and Olivia are the characters, I’m invested in, so excuse me if I don’t judge the episodes through a character as poorly developed as Altlivia.

                    “The relationship feels shallow and fake…”
                    The relationship is shallow and fake. What else could it be and how else could you feel, when one part is on a mission and deceiving the other part? After one week, I wouldn’t expect anything different. Altlivia is not here to bond with our side. She has only been here for a few days and she has to fulfill a mission. Maybe now that she has forced herself to “bond” with the enemy, she will start forming emotional ties with our characters, as the show suggested.

                    “I don’t think this is simply a matter of them running out of ideas…”
                    And I didn’t say that. The show is much better now than in S1 and I’m sure they’ll do a better job this time, but they are recycling storylines.

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                    • mlj102 says

                      “Walter, Peter and Olivia are the characters, I’m invested in, so excuse me if I don’t judge the episodes through a character as poorly developed as Altlivia.”

                      I mostly judge the over here episode based on alternate Olivia because she is the main focus of those episodes. Sure, as you pointed out, there are other aspects you can focus on in each episode. But the main focus over here is alternate Olivia, her mission, and her attempts to remain undercover. So while there are other aspects to consider, her story contributes the most to the overall feel of the episode for me.

                      I do hope you don’t feel like I’m attacking you or your opinions. Certainly you’re entitled to feel however you choose to. I’m simply responding to the things you say that I feel I can add to or that I view in a different way than you do.

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                    • number six says

                      “I do hope you don’t feel like I’m attacking you or your opinions.”
                      Absolutely not! Don’t worry about that :D

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                    • SF says

                      “but they are recycling storylines.” I disagree with this, because I think they are showing how similar Walternate is to Walter, with them both using the tank. The fact that Olivia is the one being experimented on by both men – didn’t that make you shiver? it did me. Walternate is showing how Walter could experiment on children and not really show much regret for what he did, and that most likely because of their natures, both men would do it again. Using the tank I think is very effective and ties the two universes and storylines together even more tightly. Plus it’s a way to make Olivia/AltLiv focus on what’s going on inside her, because the rest of the world is gone. She can’t hide, in the tank, even though her mind is full of drugs.

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        • james29 says

          “It says that they weren’t that attached to everything that made our Olivia the person she was. It says that someone can come in and replace her in a superficial way, and it doesn’t matter.”

          So true and so sad.

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  14. possp says

    “But still. They did such a bad job at showing Fauxlivia trying to blend in, that i’ll have a hard time buying it”

    I think its the other way around – the writers are doing a great job of showing what a bad job Fauxlivia is doing trying to blend in.

    But yeah, I’d still find it hard to accept Peter supposedly knowing all along it wasnt Olivia. I’m pegging a combination of 1, 3 and 5.

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  15. Anjali says

    To be honest, I don’t see Olivia forgiving peter. At all.
    And I am definitely not buying into the theory that Peter could be playing Altlivia… that just makes NO sense at all.
    He definitely thinks it’s Olivia, and doesn’t know the truth yet.

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  16. Ann_Louise says

    I’m with the camp that thinks TPTB will think up something completely different – or some weird Fringe-like melding of some of the above listed choices. For some reason, I think that Olivia may be more understanding of the situation than we (or Peter) may think. Maybe the process of “waking up” to herself Over There will lead Olivia to see the whole situation as so extraordinary that no-one should be condemned for how they faced it.

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  17. Catherine says

    We’re still on this? Really? :D

    Ways Olivia Might Forgive Peter:
    1. Not his fault. Bolivia was a spy sent on a *evil* mission. He didn’t know. This is my preference.

    2. Yes again. “Olivia, I wouldn’t have been with her, if I hadn’t thought she was you.” Say what? Only in Fringe. …or perhaps in a case of dysfunctional twins.

    3. “Poor, baby. You’ve had a rough year, I know.” Tee hee. Don’t hold your breath for that one, Peter.

    4. “Peter, maybe you don’t belong with me afterall.” NOT!!!! Too many longing stares and invested shippers. :) Don’t even think about it, woman! (Although, a sister, an old girlfrind, and Agent Jessup do stand in the wings.)

    5. I don’t know. I think I’m in denial over this possibility. Not likely, IMO.

    6. Maybe….but that’d be some magic trick, Peter. Beats the coin thing all to …. Unless you’ve got some abilities we don’t know about… hmmm. Hey, maybe Peter has some abilities we don’t know about. :)

    Option #7 Peter’s illness returns. Walter can’t be checking to see if he’s breathing at night for nothing. It’s a condition brought about by being in the wrong universe for so long..so Olivia feels responsible. (She always feels responsible.) Therefore, her guilt overides his fault?

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  18. Lila says

    I like #3 the best, and I bet this is the way they´re going (and I hope so!!).
    Is nice to imagine situation #6, but that would make matters worse, I mean imagine! “Oh that’s great Peter, it’s good that you tried to get information, but did you sleep with her??” and then Peter will say “Yeah kind of… I was just getting ready for you, you know.”

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  19. mlj102 says

    I’ve already said more than enough on this subject, so I’ll keep this short. I think the writers have really dug themselves into a deep hole with this particular story. For me, it’s to the point that, no matter what they do, it’s going to look bad and be disappointing and less than satisfactory. If they show that Peter knew all along, it won’t be believable for all the reasons Roco has mentioned. It will make Peter look bad for pursuing the relationship with alternate Olivia and for not showing more concern for Olivia, etc. But if they go the route of him having no idea, or him being in denial, I feel like it cheapens everything that has been built between Peter and Olivia in the last two seasons. It would seriously take a miracle for them to find a way out of this mess they’ve developed. And I’m not getting my hopes up. I don’t know how they could possibly pull it off without being full of contrivances and holes, not to mention significantly damaging Peter’s character.

    Can Olivia forgive him? I think so. I think it will take a lot of time. He’s going to have to work hard to really earn her trust and affection again. But I think it’s possible. Olivia isn’t one to hold a grudge when someone is genuinely apologetic. And she was so sincere in the way she told him that he belonged with her — I think she truly believes that, and she’s not going to forget that, especially given her experiences with “Peter” helping remind her of who she is and helping her realize she needs to come home. She’ll forgive him, but it won’t be easy or fast. At least it shouldn’t be.

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  20. Aci79 says

    I’m leaning toward #4 more so than any other options. I hate the idea of #6, it would make him a bit of a smuck for going through with it while knowing exactly who she is. I would rather think that his IQ doesn’t apply to his love life. The fact that his judgement is a bit clouded with the idea of having “romance” as a way for him to avoid his fear of him being an agent of world destruction.

    Also, what if he doesn’t tell anyone about his deed with Altlivia. I don’t know where the overall storyline is going, but as dedicated as Olivia is with her work, I don’t think she will have time for drama. The world is counting on them. I’m sure this matter bothers her when she finds out, but it won’t get in the way of her conducting business as usual. She’ll be like “C’mon Peter, we don’t have time for this.” And even though she kissed him, they haven’t really started having romantic relationship of any kind as of yet, so she is not completely invested in this as we do as fans. Especially with everything she went through on the other side. She’ll just continue on their effort on saving the world. She has bigger fish to fry.

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    • mlj102 says

      I see what you’re saying, but I disagree. Olivia is completely invested in this whole matter. She cares very deeply about Peter. All you have to do is watch Over There to see that. That was more than just a kiss. It was more than just a tactic to try and get Peter to come back over here. To say she’s not invested in that relationship is to miss the whole significance of that scene and that story arc as a whole. That’s largely why she crossed over to the other side in the first place. That’s why she is seeing him as the person who is anchoring her to reality. She is 100% invested, despite how new their actual relationship might be. She might put on a tough face and pretend like it’s all good, but deep inside, it will bother her and she won’t be able to just move past it. She may be the kind of person who is serious and focused on what needs to be done, but she also has feelings and she will be affected by this just like anyone else would be.

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  21. says

    Not sure #2 would work. Yes, he was with a version of her. Then again, that version of her assaulted the version of her that she is. There’s sort of bad blood.

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  22. Anita says

    I just thought of this, but I want Peter and Olivia to be on opposing sides for some reason. Remember What Lies Below and how epic their, like, fifteen second fight scene was? I’m a huge shipper, but somehow pitting two of the most heavily-invested characters against each other – temporarily – would be amazing. But to do so we’d have to believe that they both have valid reasons for taking whatever side they do, and right now I am totally siding with Ourlivia 100% in any decision she makes.

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    • mlj102 says

      I can see how one could view this scenario as intriguing and potentially riveting. But I just can’t see it happening. And I don’t want to see it happen. Olivia and Peter are both on the “good” side. They’re both committed to finding the best solution to this conflict. Even if they had differing opinions on how that’s to be done, they would talk it out, not split up. I can’t believe that either one of them would be narrow-minded enough to completely ignore what the other is trying to say. No matter how “valid” their reasons would be, one of them would come across as the “bad guy”.

      Working against each other just feels like it would require a certain amount of dislike and malice and contention, and I just can’t see them acting that way towards each other. They may disagree from time to time, but to take it so far that they would actually be working against each other just doesn’t seem like the kind of thing either of them would do.

      The thought of them working against each other just doesn’t sit well with me. It’s unpleasant enough for me to see them unknowingly on separate sides and not working together. I think it would be a mistake to take that to the next step and have them intentionally working against each other. I think it would really mess up the dynamic of the show and it would be extremely difficult for them (characters and writers) to come back from something like that.

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    • number six says

      That would be interesting, but I don’t see Olivia working against our universe, unless the Altlivia memories took control of her. Walternate could still have this card up his sleeve, but in this case it wouldn’t really be our Olivia.

      As for Peter, it is possible that he could work against our universe and Olivia for some strange reason. The problem is that it would mean he would work against Walter, too and that’s something I can’t even begin to imagine.

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      • mlj102 says

        Interesting. I find it far more believable that he would work against Walter (which still isn’t to say I think that’s very likely to happen) than for him to work against Olivia. At this point, while he does care for Walter, I think he’s much more committed to Olivia (even though he can’t figure out that the person he’s with isn’t the Olivia he knows) and has a stronger sense of loyalty to her than he does for Walter.

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  23. LizW65 says

    Catherine: “Option #7 Peter’s illness returns. Walter can’t be checking to see if he’s breathing at night for nothing…”

    Actually, the Season 2 DVD commentary STRONGLY suggests that this will become an issue sooner rather than later–Bell’s “you’re holding up better than I expected” was punctuated by a rather pointed remark by one of the commentators.

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    • T says

      Yes, there has to be something of future significance to that comment (especially with Peter’s facial expression after Bell’s “that’s not what I meant” comment).

      Just a thought and feel free to shoot it down but…Walter administered the cure to Peter in our universe right? Could it be possible that the illness bacame active again in the alt universe? Peter had the converstion with Bell in the alt universe. If Peter spends extensive time in the alt universe will the illness come back?

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      • runthegamut says

        I think it’s a valid theory. I did wonder what was in that IV when he woke up Over There. I was sort of glad to hear that comment, that the illness might come back. I’d always felt like it was sort of glossed over how a deathly ill child grew up tall and strong with no apparent lingering affects. I also have a pet theory that whatever happens to him, Olivia, our Olivia, will be part of the cure. I take hints of that from Brown Betty. I know that ep isn’t canon exactly, but I like the idea. And in keeping with the actual discussion thread, it would be a way to affect a reconciliation between them.

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        • fedorafadares says

          Maybe Peter ends up on the other side because of the machine and Olivia is the only one who can shuttle the cure over to him from our side.

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  24. Kayla says

    If #4 DOES actually happen, I will be upset.

    Like Catherine said, “Peter, maybe you don’t belong with me afterall.” NOT!!!! Too many longing stares and invested shippers. Don’t even think about it, woman!”

    Exactly. They have built sooo much up between these two in the past seasons and to just give it up would not be satisfying to many people. Shippers would go absolutely insane :P Me, being another shipper, would be pretty disappointed as well. They can’t just give up like that, you know? Yes, Peter should know, but I think Olivia will forgive him. Maybe not right away, but she will. She won’t just let him go like that. No way. I guess they could “break up” (since they weren’t actually together) and then as time goes on, they could slowly start to realize that they DO actually belong together? I don’t know. But that would also drive me crazy. Those are just the thoughts of the top of my head. :P

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  25. Pam says

    I cannot still buy the fact that Peter maintains a semblance of normalcy with Walter. So, Peter’s character is built in a way that he generally shoves feelings under the bench to be dealt with later, unless it is something shocking or surprising – like finding out he is not from this universe.

    Along, the same lines, if he knew that his Olivia wasn’t around or in danger, he wouldn’t be one to “lie down and take it”. So, I am pretty sure he doesn’t know. Also, remember he says in “Man from the other side” (if I am right) that he always knew but, just didn’t consciously realize that he was taken from the other side? Similarly, I think he knows deep down that this is not his liv but, hasn’t connected the dots yet. And, I am sure he will pretty soon.

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  26. Xindilini says

    No. 4
    Reminds me of what Peter said in Season 2 “Olivia. In the Lab. With a Revolver.”
    Let’s not deal with yet. OK Peter?

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  27. jophan says

    If Olivia can remember how disgusted she was at John Scott’s apparent betrayal (“I just want to shower from the inside out”) and if she can identify similar feelings in Peter, she may let him off the hook sooner rather than later.

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  28. fringeobsessed says

    ROCO,
    You forgot one big aspect to this Peter/Olivia 2.0 thing:Peter’s neediness.
    Ever since he discovered his DNA makes the Wave Sink power supply get started, and he saw that awful picture of him with fire coming out of his eyes he has been severely spooked, preoccupied, and very, very needy.

    We’ve never seen him like this before. He told us that he can’t get that picture out of his mind(although when he was in FauxLiv’s bed I’ll bet it went away for a bit!) He’s so upset he went to Liv’s apartment unannounced just to vent. So one of his explanations for sleeping with Faux, even though ‘his Liv’ was acting weird, would be neediness. He needed to connect with the person who cared most about him, in a way that gave him respite. And Faux offered that. Of course he didn’t know it was Faux.

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  29. real1 says

    Peter is back to our universe because of Olivia , Peter is loving Olivia and understand that she is complicated , when Olivia said to him you belong with me it was the key for Peter to go back to her and to our universe , go back and see the pilot , when the senate did ask Peter why he did come back while he is knowing that walternet want to do war and he can stop this war … peter just was looking to him and then we saw Olivia’s face .

    It’s clear that Peter will put so many excuses for Olivia behavior .. just because he is loving her too much and want to face the up-coming war with her , he needs her , so he isn’t thinking clearly .. I can say he don’t want to think clearly as how he said about the senate’s wife .

    I think Olivia will forgive him .. but it will take another season to let Olivia and Peter together ! … I can think also about another thing .. Peter has ability to cross over .. and the one which Olivia is seeing .. no less it’s Peter !! .. but I don’t know how that can be ……

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  30. JANE says

    I think many of you have been rude with Peter… I am of the idea he doesn’t know anything… he believes that that woman is Olivia. How could you expect he know or suspect anything? This is not a game of “find the 7 differences”
    Peter also doesn’t know how is Olivia’s behaviour when she is involved in a romantic relationship… I remember in season 1 “in which we meet Mr. Jones” Lucas told her “you´ve shifted” meaning that she was somehow less darken than she was those days… and also in season 1 when she is in John’s memories at the restaurant we can see a pretty maked-up Olivia… so, Altlivia is how Olivia can be if she is in love and requited… Altlivia has Frank, she hasn’t went through the same situations Olivia has… so, Peter is thankful that she can manage pretty well a relationship with him.. that she doesn’t look at him as “oh God, this man can destroy my world” thing… and his IQ doesn’t apply to love things… yes, he can read Olivia very well and he has noticed the changes but c’mon, who hasn’t changed a bit when we are in a relationship??
    if Peter knew or suspected something he wouldn’t sleep with Altlivia not only because of the love thing but because he owes Olivia the fact that she had crossed the other side for him, to get him back… he knows he belongs to her
    and when he finally sees he was deceived and his true Olivia has passed so bad over there he will be very devastated and maybe that would activate his illness….

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  31. JANE says

    and about Olivia forgiving Peter… I don´t know if there is something to forgive… she knows very well that over there Olivia is over here… that means Altlivia is with Peter, in a relationship… even so she has made of Peter her only way to remain herself. She could use her sister, Ella even John Scott to stay in touch with herself but no, she uses Peter. I don’t know how is it going to be between she and Peter when she comes back… a new start maybe… But Olivia can blame Peter of her stay in AU… it was all his guilty… that is the thing I see can freeze their relationship and not if he has sex with her not herself because she might have had sex with Frank even when in her mind she was thinking something was wrong…

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  32. Young says

    Let us consider Olivia may return to our side and not fully remember who she was. Floating inside or her is the persona/memories of Bolivia who is currently dating another guy. Olivia is slowly getting to know Peter through her hallucination of him. If she returns to our side like this her feelings for Peter will be very different. They may just need to fall in love again…

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  33. Cil - Brasil says

    Hello, I am Brazilian and my English is very bad, I hope you understand what I mean.

    The only way the screenwriter redress the terrible mistake – Peter x AltLivia – Peter will find that our Olivia is trapped in another dimension. Peter will succumb to despair or remorse for not having noticed the difference. His desperation to be so great that he will do anything to have her back, even destroy the other universe.

    This will cause him to understand and forgive her father, who was so far to save him.

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  34. ApplesBananasRhinoceros says

    I’m hoping for Option #701 that Peter was drugged during his little adventure Over There and his perception of things has been a little… off… lately…. B Lymphocytes or Cortexiphan????

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