Fringe Review: 3.06 6955kHz


Welcome to our review for episode 6 of Fringe season 3 – “6955kHz”.

In this review we give an honest opinion on the good and not so good aspects of the episode. We identify the answers that were provided and the mysteries that remain locked away. We take an in-depth look at the other aspects of the episode that made an impression on us, before rounding off the review with our final thoughts and episode rating.

THE GOOD

  • Change of Pace. There was a different dynamic in that the audience wasn’t clued in on exactly what Altlivia was up to until later in the episode. I think both ways can work, but this was a nice change of pace.
  • Mythology. It’s always welcome as far as I’m concerned. I was pleased to receive big dose of it with the number stations and more on the First People. I thought it was interesting and well delivered. Perhaps most importantly, it fused both of the parallel storylines together and gives the Over Here story extra momentum going into the midway point of the season.
  • Nina. Leave it to Cheshire Cat to be the first person Over Here to notice something different about Olivia without immediately casting it aside. Whats more, it’s just a general joy to have Nina in an episode – she was at her sparkling best and had the desired impact on Walter.
  • Score In Places. I liked the variations in the Newton Death music. I also felt that the music helped enhance certain moments, giving them just the right amount of flavor.
  • Peter Doesn’t Know. Let me be clear, this is a positive by default. Had Peter secretly known about Altlivia posing as his Olivia, it would have made things a lot worse. In truth, I never did understand why so many people thought this to be the case? Either way, we can put that idea to bed with a glass of hot milk and a bedtime story.

THE BAD

  • Somewhat Forced. I’m not sure I buy Walter’s inability to figure out that the numbers related to coordinates. Couldn’t he have guessed? Perhaps there was a bit of subconscious unwillingness on his part to pursue the answer? Still, Astrid’s moment in the spotlight felt just a bit forced. If they continue to do something with it (the potential is there) then I’ll possibly retract this criticism. I’m all for more Astrid, but I want it to feel more natural. Points for continuity, but it didn’t hit that sweet spot.
  • Bowels and Motion. One too many Walter ‘intestine’ jokes, I think. Astrid’s faux ‘shock-horror’ reactions are also becoming a bit trite.
  • Anguish. In watching this episode it seems to me that Altlivia’s ‘anguish’ over the morality of what she’s been tasked to do should have been more evident a bit earlier – before Newton said all of those mean things to her. A lot of the things he spoke about where more visible in this episode. Which may serve to prove that Newton was just highly perceptive, bringing her deep-lying doubts to the surface (something I do believe), but I still think that a bit more shading earlier on would have made her conflict seem more organically derived from her character, rather than the words on the page. Not a major complaint though, I just feel it could be stronger.
  • Internal Altlivia. I would still like more from Altlivia internally. We’re slowly getting there, but one of my hopes was for her actions to come from an organic place. I’m not sure we see enough of her personal outlook to say that we’re there yet, though I do appreciate that part of the conceit is that she’s isolated right now. Thing is, so is Olivia, but there’s more internal exploration through various means. I accept that the two characters are performing different functions right now, but I do hope that before all is said and done we really get to zero-in on who Altlivia is. She likes music, great – but what does she think about xyz? Share your mind, Altliv.
  • Slow Start. I felt that the episode started off quite slowly. Perhaps the pacing wasn’t the best, although I took of a note of that fact that it did get progressively more engaging.
  • Hired Help. I would have liked to have seen more with Shapeshifter Joseph. Perhaps he served his purpose, but we’re aren’t half going through shapeshifters like jam doughnuts. A minor complaint, but if you give me an Alias legend and I’m bound to want more like Oliver Twist in a cake factory.

MYSTERIES

  • How did Walternate find out about the numbers?
  • Who is Seamus Wiles?
  • What happened to the First People?
  • Are the First People (or their descendants) still among us?
  • Is Sam Weiss a First People person?
  • What is the relationship between the Observers and the First People? (and Peter, for that matter).
  • On which earth did the First People live, given that the clue was originally embedded in the Over There title sequence? Did they have access to both?
  • Did the First People create the multiverse with their mythology vacuum device.
  • In Fringe mythology, how does God and spirituality fit in with the First People?
  • Did the First People hide pieces of the device in both universes as an extra safeguard against it being found and assembled? Why didn’t they just destroy it? Did they want it to be used by the right people?
  • Does Walternate still need Peter to power the machine, or can the machine work without Peter once all the parts are assembled?
  • What does “Phase II” involve?

ANSWERS

  • Nina says that the number station codes were first discovered more than 70 years ago (though obviously the transmission is much older).
  • Walternate is responsible for the pulse signal that erased people’s memories. He wanted to protect the code (update to clarify: from random Joe’s). Walternate knew what the numbers meant (and wanted Team Fringe to find the locations).
  • The numbers transmission existed before the invention of the radio. Spooky.
  • The numbers represent a coordinate system. They indicate latitude and longitude locations – specific places on earth where pieces of the weapon device (the vacuum) are hidden.
  • The First People book was published by Seamus Wiles in 1897. The First People pre-date Adam and Eve and the dinosaurs. They were the first humans to evolve on this planet. These cats were highly technologically advanced.
  • The First People measured time and months with drastically different numbers of days in them. For instance, the numbers of days in some of their months include: 12, 34, 17, 9, 15, 8, 42, 40, 27.
  • Avocado, cucumber and cheese – Walter’s recipe for the best sandwich for clarity of thought.
  • There are 37 more locations – presumably 37 more pieces of the weapon/vacuum to find.

FRINGE THOUGHTS

  • This episode’s ‘previously on’ is one of my favorites of the season so far simply because they used the gorgeous music that accompanied Newton’s death. I call them the strings from heaven.
  • Nice opener, plenty mysterious with numbers that erased the mind. Walternate’s version of memory removal.
  • So, they did it. I was disgusted by Altlivia and Peter’s *ahem* coming together at the end of the previous Over Here episode, so I entered this one with some trepidation. Thankfully we weren’t treated to any more sexy-time, but I was repulsed by the sight of Peter bringing Altlivia breakfast in (Olivia’s) bed. She screws you and your chosen world over, and you make her scrambled eggs and coffee? Open your eyes, Petah! She deserved burned toast and water, at best. To top it off Peter actually took a bow – Cringe!

Altlivia: “What did I do to get so lucky?”

Peter: “Nothing, it’s just for being you”

  • Peter’s hole is now so deep he’s come out the other side. Those words are very similar to the ones he said to Olivia after she saved his butt in “What Lies Below”. I loved Peter for saying that to Livvy – who doesn’t want to be thanked just for being themselves? So I loathed him for rendering those words all but meaningless – Olivia is so special to him that he doesn’t even realize that she’s gone. But we already knew that.
  • And while I’m on the subject, should we start drawing up a list of the great crimes committed in Olivia’s home? Let’s see:
  1. R@chel’s cooking.
  2. Murder.
  3. Blood splattering.
  4. Transactional intercourse performed in Olivia’s bed.
  5. Crumbs and goodness knows what else on Olivia’s sheets.
  • Anything I’ve missed out? I swear, that Altlivia has no respect! There will be no bigger casualty of war than that apartment.
  • The first thing Olivia should do when she returns home on her bolt of lightening is to kick Peter where the Cortexiphan doesn’t shine and give Altlivia a bill for a new abode.

  • It’s not that I begrudge Peter happiness. But it’s a happiness built on my investment of a story that is being used in contrived fashion. My fear is that once the dust has settled, the next goal will be to find a way to bring Peter and Olivia back together romantically – because they are made for each other, right? That doesn’t work for me because it’s not realistic, even in the world of this show. That said, if the current storyline serves to end the Peter/Olivia romance once and for all, then it may have served a necessary evil.
  • It’s funny seeing Altlivia show her first real twinge of moral guilt because Peter is being so sweet to her. As I mentioned above, this should have come a bit earlier, and it’s just weird because someone making her breakfast and buying her U2 concert tickets obviously touches her humanity more than spraying some innocent dude’s brain all over Olivia’s apartment. I guess it’s about erosion, as Newton noted, things are gradually starting to make her question her loyalty.
  • And I like that – it shows that she’s ‘human’ despite going to that cold, lifeless place to have sex with Peter. But I’m not sure I like the kind of ‘human’ she is. To think that Olivia would have turned out like her if her path had been different. I guess this is why the choices we make are so important. They define who we are when all is said and done.
  • Walter. Is he still trying to deny his and Peter’s role in all of this? I thought we’d moved on from that, Walter? I know that some folks disagree with me on this, but I find this behaviour to be cowardly. You can’t take from the Magical Multiverse Spring if you’re not prepared to suffer the consequences – just read any story, like ever created, to find that out. Walter is uniquely positioned to do something positive to save both worlds, instead he wants to protect his own heart by blocking Peter’s attempts to investigate the weapon. For all his ills, at least Boy Wonder is trying to fight the ‘good fight’. Granted, Walter eventually sees the light, but I’m far from confident that he’s ready to be the positive influence that the situation calls for.

  • I do love this quote though:

“Fine! If you end up breaking the universe, this time it’s on your head!”

  • It’s a really simple way of describing the situation. It also reveals both Walter’s immature state of mind and his fear – he doesn’t want the blame. He’s suffered decades of guilt for what he did, he knows that the next time will probably kill him. And he’s projecting that on Peter because losing Boy Wonder is what terrifies him. It’s just a shame that Walter is being so incredibly selfish in his little glass house.
  • Number Stations:

Nina: “Nobody knows what they are, or even where they come from. As far as anyone knows, they’re artificially generated voices reading streams of random numbers in a wide variety of languages”

  • Walter gives the back of Peter’s head a deep and meaningful look as Nina plays the number station recording. We’ll get on to the First People in a moment, but could Peter be one of them? Although that look may just be Walter worrying about the implications of Peter pursuing another dangerous activity.
  • Massive Dynamic has a child development center? Yikes, parents. Yikes.

  • Take a bow Nina! I think Red Riding Hood is on the path to realizing that Grandma is not Grandma. Certainly, she’s noticed that something is seriously different – which, considering the amount of time she’s spent in Altlivia’s company compared to Peter, Walter, et al, is impressive. Although I’m weary of handing out such accolades when the standards of perception set by our team are so low. That said, it’s not like Altlivia hasn’t dropped bigger clues than the one Nina digests like she’s just swallowed a giant grapefruit. So well done Nina for at least noticing and for making Altlivia sweat by challenging her over it.
  • Nina’s right. Olivia is far more forthright with Walter – and Lord knows he needs a kick up his backside from time to time. Olivia keeps everyone on the road to progression, this is why she is our protagonist. I’ve said it before, but since nothing has changed in 6 episodes, I’ll continue to say it – how have Walter and Peter not noticed that ‘Olivia’ has changed so dramatically? Aside from being a contrivance (and please, it really is a contrivance), are they too close to see the truth? Are they both comforted by the ignorance which soothes them? Is there a part of them (some deep and murky part) that doesn’t want Olivia back?
  • I wouldn’t like to think the last one is true (and I don’t, in broad terms), but you have to think that there is something about this particular Olivia that fulfills their needs and requirements. The subconscious is muddy terrain, for sure.
  • Anyway, back to carrot-top – it will be interesting to see if these seeds percolate enough for her to do something about it. And why isn’t she more involved in analyzing the Weapon piece they recovered in “The Box”? It’s a bit contrived in that Nina is the go-to-girl for most of the rare technology in the show, yet not the most important device ever. Lest we forget, Walter owns Massive Dynamic now. Although this is a very distrustful Walter.
  • Walter’s theft of Peter’s soundboard continues to show him up as the biggest hypocrite since time began. It’s OK for him to take risks in the name of science, but apparently it’s not for Peter. Perhaps it’s a parent/child thing, but as Nina later points out, this unique situation requires Walter to grow a damned backbone and offer Peter the wisdom that he’ll surely need.
  • Peter doesn’t have to make the same mistakes that Walter did – I think it was Olivia in the first season who pointed out that Peter should have more faith in Walter. Peter has gone on to show Walter that faith in bucket-loads simply by returning from Wonderland, now it’s time for Walter to pay it forward.
  • I was so thrilled to see a Prometheus reference (probably coincidence, but I’ll take what I can get):

“What’s to understand? You’re playing with fire”

  • Says Walter while self-medicating. You’d think spending some time on the other side would make him more self-aware, instead he’s gone inwards! I may be giving him a hard time of late, but we each come into the story from a certain point-of-view – let’s just say Walter and I share different perspectives which have reached dividing-point. It takes more than a few ‘bowel movement’ broadcasts for me to like the man.

  • Peter on the other hand grew in this episode (the ‘breakfast in bed’ debacle, aside):

“Walter, when I touched that device on the other side. It came alive in my hands. Like it responded directly to me. How can you expect me to ignore that?”

  • For a moment I thought he was talking about Altlivia – I had to stop myself in mid-hurl. Not a nice experience. But I loved what Peter said here – I like it when he travels to his emotional well and comes back with a pale of water. Peter is being as fair as he can here – how can Walter expect him to ignore his fate? Peter is connected to this device and for him to walk away from it – good or bad – would be unthinkable, and irresponsible at that. It’s just a shame we didn’t get to hear Walter’s response (THANKS, Astrid!), but I sense that Peter made something of a break-through.
  • I was overjoyed to see Alias favorite Marshall Flinkman (Kevin Weisman) play the role of the latest shapeshifting antagonist Joseph Feller! In the first season of Alias I found him rather annoying, but from the second season onwards he found his groove and was consistently one of the best things about the show. How glad I am to have him be a permanent part of FRINGE! He is staying, ..right?


  • I found it interesting that his eyes were different colors – it’s not completely uncommon, but it’s a note-worthy detail that it’s found in a shapeshifter. Of course, we didn’t necessarily know that he was a shapeshifter at first. I had feared that the writers had sidelined them with the death of Newton and the other two in DSDOES?. I thought it was likely that he was a Shifter, but not having that revealed until the mercury splash played differently in my mind than it probably would have if we’d known from the outset.
  • Walter’s sentimental scene with Becky was simple but nicely played, touching heavily on the theme of memory – a big part of the previous episode and the story in general. It was interesting to see Walter associate himself with Becky’s lack of association with those she formerly loved. It made me consider whether love can really be disintegrated at the flick of a switch? Obviously people can fall out of love, or learn to loathe someone over time, but does losing one’s memory take away the emotional context of that affection? Does the capacity to love rely entirely on the ability to remember – or is there something else that forges an everlasting connection in the grand scheme of things? Who knows, but I’d like to believe that somethings go beyond our ability to understand them in this life, and that the connections we make while we’re here are important in our progression. You can stop the violins now.
  • You know, I may loathe Walter right now, but that doesn’t mean I don’t admire the words that sometimes come out of his mouth:

“The human brain is a miracle. Our most resilient organ. The storage unit for everything you’ve ever known, or seen, or felt. It’s all still in there, whether or not you’re conscious of that.”

  • YES Walter! Perhaps our mindsets are not so opposed after all? “It’s all still in there” - isn’t that a wonderful description? It reminds me of the First People and the possible clue that was dropped last season about ‘aliens’ switching off our powers. After the season 2 finale, several of us attributed this in relation to these mythical First People, and with all that was implied in this episode, we may have been on to something.
  • I think I’ll call Peter ‘one step forward, two steps back’, from now on. He doesn’t find it weird that Olivia doesn’t remember Edward Markham – who the hell forgets Edward Markham!!??

  • Walter disarms Altlivia slightly, without even trying. He gets her to say, “I’m sorry, Walter” – and a part of me (the easily-led part) kinda believes her. Of course, we shouldn’t forget that she’s not the Wicked Witch – she is capable of feeling sympathy. She’s been tasked with one heck of a difficult mission, and she’s the type who is so ballsy that she doesn’t want to ask questions – she’s not Broylnate. Perhaps this comes from feeling like she has something to prove? As Newton said though, she’s been compromised.
  • And I don’t have a problem with that in and of itself – she should be feeling the weight of what she’s doing. Staying on mission, keeping that focus when relationships are involved must be hard. Encouragingly (if you can use that word with her), it seems that breaching her morals in DSDOES? may have triggered a built-in empathy mechanism. Or perhaps Petah’s just that great a lover? Teeheehee.
  • I’m loving the mythology. We know that the numbers were initiated by the First People (of whom, Sam Weiss could well be one) to record where they buried the Weapon – otherwise known as the vacuum that can “create and destroy life”.
  • What’s up with Nina addressing Astrid with such enthusiasm? I recall the first time they met – carrot-top gave her a much colder greeting. :)

  • Nina and Walter’s stroll down memory lane was quite interesting. So, Nina was a bit of a wild child in her youth, huh? Not surprising, you can see the cheeky in her. Walter continued to show a lack of self-awareness:

“I don’t know what happened to this generation”

  • Erm, YOU happened, Walter! :P In all seriousness, he should get off his high throne. He says that this generation lacks courage and that in his time they went against the grain of what they were told. Yeah, and how did that work out for everyone,Walt? Thing is each generation is affected by the actions of the ones before. Perhaps what Walter interprets as a lack of courage, is in fact greater wisdom? (generally speaking). I mean, what does he want, exactly? It’s fine for him to sit in his glass house throwing stones but the moment Peter wants to do something about the weapon, he actively tries to stop him. You can’t have your cake and eat it. Pass down some wisdom instead of dumping on Peter’s parade.
  • While I want Walter to be braver in solving the problems faced by both worlds, he cannot expect people to live out his dreams while he self-medicates himself into ignorance. Be a man Walter. Better yet, be a father and a mentor. The world needs you – you can make all of this better by answering the call. All you need do is one great thing.
  • A very telling quote here:

“If only one world can survive, then it stands to reason that Walternate will use Peter to ensure that it’s his world that does”

  • I sense that Walter is so certain of this because it’s also what he would do. While it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to speculate that Walternate might have the best intentions for Over Here, I think that it does project something about Walter’s own outlook. I’m glad Nina told Walter that the Peter Prophesy is, “a drawing, not destiny”. In a story that asks us to consider ‘the road not taken’, I think it’s important to remember the possibilities.

“One of the things I have most admired about you is your optimism. Don’t become a fatalist now.”

  • GOSH, can we have Nina in every episode please? Every story needs a benchwarming oracle with red hair and an iron fist. Nina just articulated what I’ve been saying all season (albeit in more fan-girl fashion) – and I did love the way that Blair Brown delivered that moment. Totally believable that these two have such a long and varied history. Breakthrough #2 for Walter achieved.
  • The First People were wiped out of the historical record by some kind of devastating..Event. How did Seamus Wiles know about them – again, perhaps he’s actually Sam Weiss?

“They were apparently, very technologically advanced. They discovered the vacuum”

  • Before displaying appalling memory (ding, ding, ding!), Altlivia gets in her now customary vacuum cleaner joke. Props for that. Also funny because I mentioned the universe not ‘operating in a vacuum’ in our previous episode review. Coincidence, but the context wasn’t far off:

“A vacuum as in the source of all creation and destruction”

  • We know they’re connected somehow – but how connected are the Observers to the First People? Could they be the First People themselves, or are they avatars or hybrid droids of these mythical ancients? I think any of those options are possible. It’s also worth looking at the numbers: 12, 34, 17, 9, 15, 8, 42, 40. It could be argued that August and September - the eighth and ninth months in our calendar – are referenced here. Could this tell us how many Observers there are?

“An ancient people who evolved before the dinosaurs just vanished without a trace?”

  • I’m not sure why Astrid finds this so hard to believe (although I guess there has to be a voice of cynicism somewhere), but if Sam Weiss is a First Peoplette, that could make him somewhat like the Doctor – the last of his kind.

“They were a people of great technological prowess who made the ultimate discovery – a mechanism known to them as the vacuum – containing at once both the power to create, and to destroy.”

  • Walter relates the vacuum to the big bang – the thing that some people believe started it all, and the possible premise behind the multiverse.

“It’s a secret worth protecting”

  • Annnnnd, in walks Altlivia. :D
  • Be weary of dames delivering boxes filled with sugary gifts, Walter.

  • I seriously can’t believe that Astrid took a bite out of the sandwich after Walter’s bowel movement broadcast. I’m hoping this didn’t take place immediately afterwards, and that he washed his hands.
  • Are we to assume that Astrid’s breath-through was the result of Walter’s ‘clarity of thought’ sandwich, or are the writers slowly revealing her to be a descendant of the First People? It’s worth mentioning that in an episode following Altstrid looking at a situation from a different angle, it was interesting to see Astrid undergo a similar shift. Oh that spiral keeps on twisting.
  • It was useful to compare the dynamic between Altlivia and Shapeshifter Joseph in comparison to her spiky relationship with Newton. Joseph was more submissive than Newton and seemed to underestimate Team Fringe. Altlivia calls him “sloppy”, which I loved, because it goes to show how much she’s missing The Newt. (who – to be fair, made some glaring mistakes himself in his final days).
  • The plan was for Joseph to use the cubes to put the team on the path so that they could find parts of the vacuum – I think I speculated that Walternate would find a way to control them from the other side – not exactly what I had in mind, but interesting nonetheless.

  • I bought Altlivia’s unwillingness to hurt anymore people in the face of Josephs desire to upload another pulse, but clearly she’s a woman of many faces, and I’m not sure she knows what she wants right now. She’s developing feelings for Peter and perhaps the Over Here world by extension of it resembling her own, but obviously she doesn’t want to fail in her mission. She has her own world to survive. She has little choice, right?

Joseph: “What is it they say on this side? All’s fair in love and war? If they were in our shoes, they’d do exactly what we’re doing”

  • He’s probably not wrong, but by basing outlook on what other people would do, only leads to trouble. That said, it’s not his decision to make – the problem is that Walternate’s heart is involved. The problems of his world are personal to him due to the Peter kidnapping, and there’s no doubt that this has impacted on his clarity. His methods.
  • Plus, I’m not sure that everyone Over Here (or Over There, for that matter) would take the same action – you just can’t generalize like that. There is, of course, a third way, and it’s slightly disappointing that Joseph would put shapeshifters back about 10 years. That said, I can’t be too hard on him, Ray and Van Horn didn’t exactly make a stand did they? They had their cake.

Altlivia: “They’re coming”

Joseph: “Where should I go? Do you have any information on my next mission?”

Altlivia: “Why yes, I do. You’re next mission, sir, will be to go SPLAT on that there concrete”

Joseph: “But I was in ALIAS”

*Shove*

Altlivia: “This is for Rambaldi!”

Joseph: “Baaaaaaad Gooooooobot!”

  • Man, she’s as cold as ice that one. I know, I know, I’ve spent some of this review talking about ‘her human side’, but that’s the thing – she can tap into it, well done her for being as capable as a shapeshifter. But unfortunately, she proves herself to be deeply flawed. I had a go at Walter for stabbing Ray, so I have to call Altlivia out for her actions here. Yes, it’s complicated, when is it not? But her motivations are coming from a place I am not liking. At the end of the day, that’s what it boils down to. She doesn’t display admirable qualities often enough. That said, she’s brilliant to watch, isn’t she!

  • I should also mention the possibility that Joseph agreed to his own murder. Look at how delighted Newton was to accept his suicide chip in the name of the mission. It’s probably more likely than not that Joseph went willingly. Though I suspect Altlivia would have murdered him anyway. It’s in her nurture.
  • Also, how many death falls is that now? Off the top of my head I make it four, although there may be more.
  • RIP joseph. What can I say? You were a treat in Alias. You were hat-tipped in “The Transformation”. And you died a spectacular death. Do shapeshifters dream of Milo Rambaldi?
  • I’m glad that Peter checked for the storage unit, because that was the very thought on my mind as Joseph took his tumble. Question is, did Peter put his hand up Joseph’s whatchamacallit to get the disk? I’m sorry, but that’s what it looked like to me – and we know that they are located in the shapshifters bottoms. Crumbs, Peter. :o
  • Walter makes another bathroom joke. *sigh*
  • Although I’m not convinced that Walter was so incapable of figuring out that the numbers were coordinates (really, Walter?), I do appreciate giving Astrid her moment in the spotlight. I also like the fact that the many underground references that we’ve been given since the first season have finally shown themselves to mean something – pointers that the ‘key to the universe’ is buried underground. Also makes me think about the Little Observer who was found underground – but I’ll leave that for the Observations column.
  • Poor Peter, he’s so in love. He’s in love with a woman – possibly two, but he’s also in love with an idea.

“It’s the little things that make me irresistible”

  • Did you think I’d make some cheap joke out of that? *tut* That would be far too easy – like taking candy from a baby, and Boy Wonder is going to need all of the sweets he can get after things turn sour. So no. I’ll pass, thanks.

  • The final Altlivia/Peter chat was nice payoff. She’s looking for Peter to indirectly help make her mind up for her. It’s not uncommon – and we’ve seen it in the past on this show. But as well as being the cowards way out, I suspect that she’s genuinely trying to get some perspective. As I said, it must be hard for her – she’s out there on her own in ‘enemy territory’, essentially with only shapeshifters and an old typewriter to call upon. She had little time to prepare, and has no human contact that isn’t built on the foundation on lies. That’s tough on her – in many ways it’s no wonder she’s struggling. Back home she has her support systems – her mother, Frank, her friends and colleagues. Here, she’s a fish out of water, and although she has adapted better than realistically possible (again, contrivances), the writing is now beginning to zero in on her underlying dilemma.

“If you knew that only one of our worlds could survive, and it was up to you, and you alone to defend your side. You’d have no choice right? You would have to do what you have to do, no matter the cost – to protect..our world”

  • This is a rare piece of honesty from Altlivia, even though she’s hiding behind a veil. And this is why I’m up and down with her. She’s callous and down right horrible at times, but she’s also bloody scared. She feels the WEIGHT of her world on her shoulders. She feels like she’s fighting for her universe without any help. So she’s naturally clung to the familiarity of our world, and perhaps this explains why she’s developing these attachments to Over Here and Peter – because they make a part of her feel like she’s not alone.
  • This is causing her to see things differently. This world could easily be hers. These people could easily be people she loves and cares about. She’s becoming more and more conscious of this fact, and though it’s ugly to watch in places, to some degree it needs to be that way. The problem again comes because it undoes some of the earlier character building for it to play out. I guess we’d call this an evoke of balance.
  • All that said, I don’t agree with the direction that Altlivia comes from. She’s coming from a place (not a literal place) that finds it a to be a discovery that the ‘at any costs’ method might not actually be the way to go about things. I take this as a statement on her, rather than her world – because Over Here, Walter is exactly the same. So I think that is my problem with Altlivia – I adore the characterization and I’m glad she exists, but I don’t think I’d share a coffee with her. But that’s cool, I’ve got my Dunhamnator.

  • And who, WHO, would have thought that Peter would rise up in my heart like Merlin on the back of a dragon? It’s moments like this where he makes my heart swell with pride:

“There are billions of innocent people over there. Just like here, with jobs, families, lives. I gotta believe there’s another way. And whatever my part in all of this is, I gotta believe there’s another way. And there’s always hope,  right?”

  • Beautifully written and wonderfully delivered by Joshua of Jackson. I’m calling this The Third Way. Because it intersects both Walternate and Walter’s ways of doing things. You may have noticed that I’ve often given Peter a hard time – and rightfully so, this is a marathon, not a race. But here he showed what he’s made of. He’s displaying the value of being ‘a child of two worlds’; of what it’s like to value all peoples regardless of what side of the line they happen to fall on. I hated the way he scuttled back Over Here without so much as a thank you ma’am, but a bit of nifty writing may well save the character yet. I’m not sure if I’ll ever feel this good about Peter again, so I’m going to lap it up. This is a man we can be proud of – perhaps better than both of his fathers. Certainly, we have hope.

  • I should also mention Altlivia’s face while Peter was delivering his character statement. I could swear it pleased her to hear him take such a stance. Perhaps it strengthened something she had been struggling with inside, or maybe she’s just happy to know that she bedded a man who at the very least wouldn’t destroy her world given the opportunity. Either way, it’s really neat that they took the time to add this little detail to her character while boosting Peter into orbit.
  • I love how Walter is fully on-board with assembling the vacuum by the end of the episode.

“Creation and destruction, I suppose we’ll have to hope for the former.”

  • It’s good to have you back, Walter.
  • I guess it’s time for “phase two“. Did Altlivia ever really ‘get to work on Dr. Bishop’, like she was instructed to? I do wonder though, does Walternate just happen to be sitting at his typewriter every time that Altlivia has updates for him? I guess he could have a portable version, or perhaps we have to assume that, on some days, she has to wait hours for his messages. My disbelief is happy to be suspended in this instance.

  • And wait for it. Is she going to do it? It’s coming..it’s coming. YES, she did it again – that ‘lookey up with menace’ thing that I just love! :)
  • The universe transition was nicely done. Although I thought Brandonate was pregnant by the way he was standing. Hands on hips and with an attitude. And as many of us suspected, Walternate has indeed figured out about Olivia’s Cortexiphan. He has no more need for her or the Bra & Panties Tank™ – which is quite a shame.

  • The final part was well done, as Olivia’s inner voice in the form of Peter boomed in serious and furrowed fashion:

“You have to get out of here. You know why they canceled the last test don’t you? Whatever they needed from you they have it now. It’s not safe for you here anymore, Olivia. You have to go home to burn that bed, incinerate the carpets and Dunhamnate some ass.”

  • Oh boy, when you put it like that Projection Peter..

FINAL THOUGHT

As I noted above, this episode seemed to get better and better as it went along. It perhaps didn’t capture the vibrancy of some of the Over There episodes, but this was a worthy Fringestallment. My door is always open for mythology, and I’d rather Fringe continue to tell these rewarding stories than bend over to conform to the less bold and creative standards of others. Worlds are being constructed here – brick by brick, page by page, episode by episode. This is stuff that will last.

This wasn’t the greatest episode ever, and I still have problems with the contrivances, but the contrivances they have I can live with. (for now at least). ;)

Best Performer: Anna Torv.

Best Line“I gotta believe there’s a better way. And there’s always hope, right?” – Peter.

Best Moment: Final Altlivia/Peter scene with the vacuum piece being excavated.

Episode Rating 8/10

You can find all of our reviews here. Our episode Observations can be found here.

Comments

  1. kittyofdoom says

    Was it Bono that Altlivia didn’t know of, in 3.02 when Newton was giving her that book about pop culture? If so, I think it’s funny that Peter got her U2 tickets. Nice continuity.

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  2. Anjali says

    One more thing.
    ‘I love U2′ – I love you too. Nice pun. I just hope they don’t say that to each other.

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  3. Bety says

    I would very much like to know where are R@chel and Ella… I mean, just because it’s not Olivia, they had to vanish? ¬¬

    And I can’t stand Peter’s blindness anymore. Seriously!

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    • annon says

      Unfortunately, it looks like that is the way the story has been written. Peter doesn’t know and none of the others either.

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  4. ilovefringe! says

    So I have this new rule for watching Fringe.
    1. Do not expect Peter to not be dumb.
    Why doesn’t he know yet??????

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    • annon says

      He doesn’t know, because that’s the story the writers are telling. Peter and everybody else. Whenever they question her new behaviour, she gives them a good reason for it. Honestly I think the whole story arc would have worked better, if the audience didn’t know. I think it magnifies the differences between the two by thousands simply because we know and they don’t. In some ways, the suspense of it all is lost, because we are waiting for the shoe to drop and unfortunately they are dragging it out.

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      • ApplesBananasRhinoceros says

        “Honestly I think the whole story arc would have worked better, if the audience didn’t know.”

        I totally agree. Annon, just think about all the speculation that surely would have gone on if we DIDN’T know for sure that they switched. It would have been epic. And would we be so hard on poor dumb Peter if we were along for the ride and gotten fooled too????

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  5. Xindilini says

    I have to take a stand for Altlivia, just because no one will.

    She has grown a bit since the last episode.
    Her saying “I’m sorry, Walter.” works for me, because it is so instinctual. This is the real her speaking, not what she is trying to achieve on this side. She really responded to Walter when he said, “Let’s put a stop to this before more people get hurt.”
    To some degree, it’s probably the same idea that convinced her to take this mission for Walternate.
    Whether she realizes or not, it’s probably why she needs help to understand her choices.

    Peter makes me cringe whatever he does now. He just not that convincing as a romantic. — To quote Altlivia, “That’s just so sweet and kind of romantic.” It’s like she’s been there and done that, as I am sure Olivia has too. Peter should rank low in that long list of boyfriends. – He should get an ‘F’ for over doing it. ;)

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  6. Gustavo says

    I don’t think Waltenate wanted to protect the ‘secret’ of the number station. If we look at Altlivia conversation with Joseph, she says “We’ve got their attention”.
    So, he probably needed the people from Over here to dig the parts from the machine. Probably because he doesn’t have enough resources of his own to get the 37 pieces that are spread all over our world.

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    • says

      Gustavo,

      I probably didn’t make it clear enough in the ‘answers’ section, but my point is that he didn’t want random people knowing where the parts where. I agree that he obviously wanted the Fringe Team to find them, that was the entire premise. :)

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  7. marco_ says

    And I’m tired of Bolivia, really tired. She came from nowhere and now she is the main character of the show. I’m sorry, I don’t care about her and her motivations. She is doing such a poor job acting like our Olivia… it’s painful and exasperating.

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    • number six says

      I agree. She comes off as very one-dimensional and half-baked. I find her really tedious to watch, except for that scene, where she hugs Peter and acts so over-dramatic. Maybe I haven’t been watching the character from the right angle. If I view her as a parody and comical relief, could the character work?

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      • annon says

        Agreed on this. The way they have attempted to write her, just hasn’t worked for me. Plus the fact that she just hasn’t blended in over here, like they have done with Olivia over there. The character has been terribly tedious for me to watch also. All of these things plus the fact that they have changed Peter’s character to suit the story arc of her over here, has left me very disappointed in the writers/producers.

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  8. BklynBetty says

    “Peter Doesn’t Know. Let me be clear, this is a positive by default. Had Peter secretly known about Altlivia posing as his Olivia, it would have made things a lot worse. In truth, I never did understand why so many people thought this to be the case? Either way, we can put that idea to bed with a glass of hot milk and a bedtime story.”

    Yes, it is VERY clear now that Peter does Not know. Although, I think the writers have been writing him ambiguously enough for the whole season (noticing this difference and that, and referencing his conman background) – that it is not unreasonable that some of us thought it was *possible* that he did know, or at least had much, much more serious doubts than he apparently has/had. I speak feelingly as I had hoped he might know (Believing that Not Knowing to be a larger betrayal than merely sleeping with Altliv). Alas. You were right.

    “It’s not that I begrudge Peter happiness. But it’s a happiness built on my investment of a story that is being used in contrived fashion. My fear is that once the dust has settled, the next goal will be to find a way to bring Peter and Olivia back together romantically – because they are made for each other, right? That doesn’t work for me because it’s not realistic, even in the world of this show. That said, if the current storyline serves to end the Peter/Olivia romance once and for all, then it may have served a necessary evil.”

    I think the whole not knowing was very contrived indeed – for the whole Fringe team and not just Peter. While Peter may still feel romantically towards Olivia once she returns (though he doesn’t deserve to in any way) – I really don’t see how any believable P/O romantic relationship can take place – certainly not this season and not next (Hoping we get one!).

    “Does the capacity to love rely entirely on the ability to remember – or is there something else that forges an everlasting connection in the grand scheme of things? Who knows, but I’d like to believe that somethings go beyond our ability to understand them in this life, and that the connections we make while we’re here are important in our progression. You can stop the violins now. ”

    I just really loved this train of thought, and I would like to believe what you believe.

    “I seriously can’t believe that Astrid took a bite out of the sandwich after Walter’s bowel movement broadcast. I’m hoping this didn’t take place immediately afterwards, and that he washed his hands.”

    Ew. I had the same thought at that moment, and eww.

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  9. Alexia says

    “The First People were wiped out of the historical record by some kind of devastating..Event. How did Seamus Wiles know about them – again, perhaps he’s actually Sam Weiss?”

    Funny you should say that,since Seamus Wiles is an anagram for Samuel Wiess!! :D

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  10. ughhhhh says

    you know, right now i’m actually rooting for Altivia. i hope she is able to keep up the charade so when Olivia makes it back, he can go on a VERY big guilt trip.

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  11. BklynBetty says

    Something else that this season has done – is shifted Peter’s motivation for staying with the Fringe team – rendering a possible P/O (romantic) relationship less ‘necessary’. Before now, Peter has certainly felt some sense of responsibility for how much of Walter’s work was in involved in the cases they dealt with, but it has always seemed that part of why he decided to stay was because of Olivia and the ‘family’ they had. Whether and to what extent that ‘family’ can be re-constructed from the ashes of the Altliv storyline – Peter’s main motivation must be, going forward – his relationship with OT, the ‘war’ and the device.

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    • number six says

      I don’t think that the P/O romance (if we can call it that, because I haven’t seen any romance between them) has ever been necessary. It seems the show has made very clear that the only important relationship is the one between Walter and Peter. Their relationship has always been the focus.

      If they think there is a need for a romantic relationship, they can always bring in new people and keep that aspect of show in the background.

      “Whether and to what extent that ‘family’ can be re-constructed from the ashes of the Altliv storyline.”
      I don’t think that the dynamics in the Peter/Walter/Astrid family will change much, but the question is how Olivia will be willing to join the family unit again.

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      • BklynBetty says

        You’re right of course, a P/O relationship has never been necessary, i guess I meant as a character motivation for Peter – not for us, for the narrative.

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  12. charliefan19 says

    Well, Peter only disappointed me in ONE new way this episode. He dumped the coffee. I mean…seriously, Peter. Is anything so exciting that you throw away the coffee????

    In all seriousness, I was so glad that he’s back to working on the machine. I hate that he’s still being played by Alt-Liv (and, by working on the device is actually doing what Over There wants) but we’ll get more answers the more he keeps working on the device.

    Nina is so awesome. I would kind of like to see another flashback episode that involves Walter, Nina, and Elizabeth, etc. When it comes down to it, we still know very, very little about Nina. And her “But that’s not like you!” was terrific. You go, Nina. Go smack Peter upside the head for me.

    And while we are blaming Peter for being so blind…I think Broyles needs a smack also. last season his relationship with “Dunham” seemed to grow a lot. Is he so busy looking for an office that he doesn’t take time to notice that Liason is…um…strange??

    And did I miss something?? What happened to the people who got their memories wiped?

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    • FinChase says

      Yes, I thought Broyles might be more perceptive, especially since his relationship with Dunham is not complicated by lust–we assume, anyway. There’s so many ways that Olivia directs an investigation, whether it’s by noticing things and making connections, or by getting Walter to focus, and none of this is happening with AltLivia. How could people miss it?

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      • ApplesBananasRhinoceros says

        I think they all know something is wrong, they’ve ALL a given A-O a funny look at least one time. They are all probably assuming Peter of all people would know…. I say he’s been drugged.

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        • Alexia says

          It is very weird though…Even if they believe all that “I saw the other me,and decided for a change” shit Altlivia is using,they should have noticed that she is acting really weird now,and not just on the things she does (or doesn’t for that matter),but also on her work.I mean Olivia used to take charge of the cases,she was always the one calling the shots,she stood up to Walter,Peter,Nina and sometimes even Broyles…Olivia is the glue that keep the team together…And in the last two years,her help have been necessary,sometimes the key,to solve a case….And Altlivia is just there,spying,doing it with the secretary’s son,killing people and shapeshifters…And The fringe team can’t see that the Dunhamnator is not dunhamnating anymore.

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  13. Alex says

    “What did I do to get so lucky?”

    “Nothing. It’s just for being you”…Except its NOT YOU!!!!

    PETARRRRGH!!!!!

    ps. Olivia, please come back! (Although i must say that when she does I’m really going to miss all the cute moments with Charlie and Lincoln)

    Great episode! A few sweet glimpses of what could have been *sigh* if Peter and OurLivia were together on this side again and in a relationship, eg. breakfast, THE HUG after she shoots Mr Alias…I kept thinking “Awwww, that’s so sweet…What a shame it’s NOT HER!!!!”

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    • fringefan2009 says

      Yeah, I’m going to miss those episodes with Charlie and Lincoln too. But, if the Altivia goes back over there, that might continue.

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  14. giorgio says

    Episode 6 made me realise that Altlivia is actually Olivia. They’re one and the same, only, they made different choices in life. Who’s to say that their universe is the parallel one? we are seen exactly the same way on the other side. For them, WE are the parallel world. We just know what we know because the story started from over here.

    This episode made me feel for Altlivia. Just like she said to Peter, seconds before the episode ended: that if he would have to choose a side to protect, to save, he would have no choice. Altlivia is not evil. She’s only doing what needs to be done to protect her world. And don’t forget that WE are the bad guys in this story. Walter started everything.

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    • Ann_Louise says

      I’ll grant you the point that Walter “started it”. But who is to say that Walternate, in his reaction, in the choices he made to deal with the loss of his son, has not contributed to the situation? Peter’s statement reminded me that both sides have value, and both Walters are multifaceted. It’s not all on one side or the other to be the “bad guy”.

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  15. Isa says

    Another excellent episode.

    I love how things started out as being very random and slow, and then the episode grow to something huge and mithological.

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  16. Gillian says

    Olivia brings Walter a cake and no one say anything??????????
    I guess Olivia will be looking for a new apartment as well as a new man when she gets back.

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    • says

      I swear, I thought Altlivia had poisoned those pastries. I saw the box and thought, “oh dear god she has put something in the food and everyone will blackout or something. “

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      • AriC says

        The box od pastries or cake was the phase two of the plan, or whatever she discussed with Walternate via typewriter.. ahahahahah!

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  17. LizW65 says

    “I do wonder though, does Walternate just happen to be sitting at his typewriter every time that Altlivia has updates for him?”

    Has it ever been definitively established that Walternate is indeed the one on the other side of the typewriter? Because until I actually see someone on the other end, I’m reserving judgement.

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    • mlj102 says

      Liz, prior to this episode, I also doubted that Walternate was the one on the other side of the typewriter. Everyone always seemed to assume that it was him, but I figured we had no proof of that and there was no definitive reason to conclude it was him. However, on the FOX website, they have a selection of pictures from this episode, including one that shows Walternate sitting at a typewriter with a mirror, just like the one over here. So I figure that must have been from a deleted scene and that it confirms that it is Walternate, after all. That’s one more to add to the list of things I’ve been wrong about.

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  18. Page 48 says

    “One too many Walter ‘intestine’ jokes, I think.”

    Haha, one too many PER episode…at least.

    I was overjoyed to see Alias favorite Marshall Flinkman (Kevin Weisman) play the role of the latest shapeshifting antagonist Joseph Feller!”

    And, how appropriate is it that KW was on board for the conclusion of Walternate’s Phase One? How about a screencap of KW offering Dixon pigs-in-a-blanket from another “Phase One”. For KW and Bad Robot, what goes around, comes around. And, I couldn’t help but notice that Joe Feller, lying on the pavement in a pool of his own mercury was reminiscent of Irina Derevko’s final scene in “Alias”. Just one and done for Shapeshifter Marshall? Life is tough, post-”Alias”.

    In the first season of Alias I found Marshall rather annoying

    And then he started bringing pigs-in-a-blanket to work and you saw him in a whole different light??

    Altlivia: “What did I do to get so lucky?”
    Peter: “Nothing, it’s just for being nothing like Olivia”

    “Covert Affairs” did an episode about Numbers Stations this summer. It was called “Walter’s Walk”. Hmmmmmmm.

    I thought Nina was going to plant a Broyles kiss on Walter on that bench. I’m still trying to get over the Broyles incident, I don’t need any Nina on Walter action.

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    • Aimee says

      What’s wrong with older people sharing a love ? It’s better than Walter/Astrid going all “Harold and Maude.” ;) If you don’t know about Harold and Maude look it up on ImDb. Great film.

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    • jacksonheights says

      Thank you for the nod to Covert Affairs. I knew I had heard about number stations before and couldn’t remember what show I heard about them from. They were used as codes for spies – I think.

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    • says

      “And, how appropriate is it that KW was on board for the conclusion of Walternate’s Phase One?”

      I missed that one, great catch!

      “And then he started bringing pigs-in-a-blanket to work and you saw him in a whole different light??”

      Haha! After that, how could I not? :P

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  19. Steve C says

    We’ve heard from William Bell, Nina, Walter and Walternate that only one world can survive the collision. But what if they’re all wrong and it turns out that the Vacuum creation/destruction machine can create a separation instead of an overwrite of one world over another. That would mean only one world could survive in its own space (as before the 1985 rift). That could be the third way that Peter is referring to. The whole either/or “war” mentality is what’s in the way.

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  20. Jody says

    I’d like to point out that this isn’t the first time Petah and Altliv have been together, because a.) He had pajamas (and different clothes to change into later on), b.) He already had the U2 tickets, and c.) Olivia doesn’t have any food in her fridge, he must have brought it himself. This is a scary thought but, who knows how many times they’ve done this?

    2nd observation: I think when Altlivia asked Peter what he would do if it was up to him to protect his world, she was hoping Peter would say something along the lines of “Heck yes! I’d do whatever the crap I needed to do to make sure my world was the last one left standing! And I mean ANYTHING!” I think she wanted to here him hate and belittle her world so she could justify what she was doing and keep herself motivated. But he didn’t. He confirmed exactly what she was afraid of; this world and the people in it aren’t the monsters she’s always been told of, but just as innocent and helpless as her own. And the things she’s been doing are not justifiable. He tells her he would find a way to fix things without crossing his moral lines. The exact opposite of what she’s done. Unbeknownst to him, he just gave her a massive slap in the face.

    I hope this will help give her some perspective. By the look on her face I’d almost say she didn’t want them to find the pieces anymore.

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    • Pam says

      Excellent point! I felt like there was something that I was missing about that scene and now I know! I guess I had figured the same too but, that wasn’t really clear enough for me to put it into words. I totally agree with what you say.

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  21. says

    I hope they humanize Altlivia a bit more before she heads back home. They’ve invested so much in the red universe that it would be a shame to not see that side anymore after Olivia returns home. I hope that they show us more to like about Altlivia and then follow her Over There after she returns with a mission to change Walternate’s mind about his mission to destroy the blue universe.

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    • says

      I want Olivia back Over Here, but I want her to bring Charlie back with her (Lincoln too I guess). That is what is really bothering me about possibly ending our time Over There. All the nuances are great but I’m attached to some of the characters there more than anything else.

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  22. mlj102 says

    “Avocado, cucumber and cheese – Walter’s recipe for the best sandwich for clarity of thought.”

    I was disappointed that his special sandwich didn’t include horseradish… That would have been a fun little piece of continuity.

    “And while I’m on the subject, should we start drawing up a list of the great crimes committed in Olivia’s home? Let’s see: R@chel’s cooking.”

    You just can’t pass up an opportunity to throw in some Rachel negativity whenever possible, can you?

    “Olivia is so special to him that he doesn’t even realize that she’s gone.”

    Don’t get me started… I’ve finally gotten to the point where I can reluctantly accept this being the way it is… even though I’m anything but happy about it. I’ve said it from the very beginning, and my opinion hasn’t changed: no matter how many excuses there are for Peter and the others over here, it cheapens the relationships among the characters (particularly the relationship between Peter and Olivia) for them all to be unaware and completely oblivious that this isn’t their Olivia. It’s saying that some imposter can come in and replace their Olivia and they don’t care enough to be able to realize what has happened. And that really makes me sad. The first two seasons have established some really great relationships between Olivia and the other characters. And I just can’t look at those relationships in the same way knowing that they can’t even see how drastically different alternate Olivia is.

    annon: “I think the whole story arc would have worked better, if the audience didn’t know. I think it magnifies the differences between the two by thousands simply because we know and they don’t.”

    Really, at this point it’s so obvious, I can’t see how there would be any way that I wouldn’t know that it wasn’t our Olivia over here. They needed to downplay the differences between the two if they wanted her to believably infiltrate our side. While the differences have been subtle, at the same time, they’re as obvious as night and day. Personally, I think the story would have worked better if Peter and the others figured it out after the first episode back over here. They still could have found a way to keep her over here without making those around her looking like idiots. At least the relationships would have come through intact.

    “That said, if the current storyline serves to end the Peter/Olivia romance once and for all, then it may have served a necessary evil.”

    Ouch, Roco. Ouch! Was that really necessary? I know you aren’t the biggest fan of the Peter/Olivia relationship, but is it really that bad for you? Honestly, while I believe the Peter/Olivia relationship is certainly going to experience a major setback because of the events of this season, I don’t think it’s a hopeless cause. If Peter and Olivia’s friendship can survive this mess, then I think there’s still a chance for their romantic relationship. And I hope their friendship makes it through, because I have always loved that relationship between them. Yes, I’m mad at Peter right now, but when I see the over there episodes and how Projection Peter is helping Olivia and how much she obviously cares for him, I can’t help but want that relationship to eventually work out for her.

    “I think I’ll call Peter ‘one step forward, two steps back’, from now on.”

    That’s a good way to put it. Actually, it’s a bit odd because this is the only review I can think of where you seem to be completely torn, and not just by one of the characters, but by all of them. Typically after reading one of your reviews, I know exactly where you stand on any given person or issue. Even if I completely disagree with you, and while you acknowledge the opposite perspective, you make it clear exactly where you stand on a certain development. But this one is different. You talk about how much alternate Olivia grates on your nerves… but then you also talk positively and sympathetically about her. You talk about how blind Peter is, but then you also praise him more than I think you’ve ever praised him before. You talk about how Walter is a hypocrite, but you also point out several things that you really liked about him. I just find it odd that you seem to have such mixed opinions after this episode. For the first time I can think of, I’m not sure what your final opinion is after reading your review. Is that the response they’re trying to create — do they want us to have a sort of love/hate relationship with the characters?

    “Man, she’s as cold as ice that one.”

    I’m going to remind you of this next time you try calling Olivia “cold”. Olivia is tame compared to what she could have been!

    “It’s not safe for you here anymore, Olivia. You have to go home to burn that bed, incinerate the carpets and Dunhamnate some ass.””

    I love how you add your own little commentary to the episode quotes you include… nice way to make sure we’re all paying attention to what you write!

    A couple random thoughts:

    Regarding alternate Olivia: I did appreciate seeing the softer, more genuine side to alternate Olivia’s character, but it almost feels like too little, too late. They’re going to have to do a lot more of that if they expect me to like her or sympathize for her. I’m disappointed that they have focused on her so much, but it feels like they really dropped the ball for her character. There’s so much they could have done, but we didn’t get that. That said, I’m still clinging on to the hope that they’ll save her. There’s always hope, right?

    In general, I agree this was a strong episode, but I’m surprised that so many people seem to consider this the best of the season so far. It was good, but it wasn’t that good. It was certainly the best Over Here episode, but the Over There episodes all rank higher than this one, in my opinion.

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    • says

      “You just can’t pass up an opportunity to throw in some Rachel negativity whenever possible, can you?”

      Ha! What can I say, it’s my weakness as far as R@ch is concerned. :P

      “It’s saying that some imposter can come in and replace their Olivia and they don’t care enough to be able to realize what has happened.”

      Well said. I think we generally agree on this. I’m probably not as invested in the romantic entanglement as you are, but it doesn’t make it less disturbing. I don’t like the idea that Olivia is so transient to the relationships forged over the first couple of seasons, nor do I believe that these characters wouldn’t notice her gone. I flies in the face of what went before, and that’s probably the hardest part.

      I’m not sure there’s any way out of this contrivance except to hold on to the hope that it’s a necessary evil. That said, a lot may depend on what happens once the dust settles. Will they continue trying to push the Olivia and Peter thing? I hope not. There has to be some release and reformation, but to go for it again could be even more damaging. But I digress! I’m getting ahead of myself.

      “Ouch, Roco. Ouch! Was that really necessary? I know you aren’t the biggest fan of the Peter/Olivia relationship, but is it really that bad for you?”

      :) Well, I can live with the storyline. It’s not bothering me as much as I probably thought it would, but that’s, in part, due to my new outlook on why the writers made the decision to take it there. I can understand it on some level, and I appreciate the need to have a ‘great big love story’ involved in the journey. I just thought the more interesting love story was between the two Bishop Boys. I’ve never really bought O&P as a romantic couple. Love the idea, just don’t think it works for various reasons.

      “I don’t think it’s a hopeless cause. If Peter and Olivia’s friendship can survive this mess, then I think there’s still a chance for their romantic relationship. And I hope their friendship makes it through, because I have always loved that relationship between them.”

      I admire your optimism, and I am a believer in such values. I’m just not sure I want to see that story between these two specific characters – I think we’d lose something. Although, perhaps we could keep a window ajar for the final episode of the series, as long as it wasn’t contrived.

      But definitely, I want their friendship to survive. The story has thrown them loops for a reason and I think we need to see them learn, reform and overcome to be better, stronger, wiser, and together – just not romantically together.

      “Actually, it’s a bit odd because this is the only review I can think of where you seem to be completely torn, and not just by one of the characters, but by all of them.”

      Very well observed, mlj! As I was writing the review I kinda felt that I was a bit up and down with the characters, but I didn’t give it as much thought until afterwards.

      “I’m going to remind you of this next time you try calling Olivia “cold”. Olivia is tame compared to what she could have been!”

      Haha! I don’t call Olivia ‘cold’ that often, do I? Possibly when she’s Dunhamnating Walter in coffee shops. Yeah, that’s cold, Livvy. ;)

      “I love how you add your own little commentary to the episode quotes you include… nice way to make sure we’re all paying attention to what you write!”

      I’m glad that you notice them. I’m sure I’ve slipped a lot of stuff by without people noticing, but it’s good to see that you’re on the ball. Good stuff. :)

      “I did appreciate seeing the softer, more genuine side to alternate Olivia’s character, but it almost feels like too little, too late.”

      I hear ya. I think there should have been a bit more shading earlier in the season. That being said, I really enjoy watching the character and hope that we continue to explore who she is. Will it undo the past? Probably not, but perhaps it will help iron the character out a little bit.

      Thanks for sharing your views!

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      • mlj102 says

        “Well said. I think we generally agree on this.”

        Wait, stop… Did I read that right? Have we really found a topic that we both agree on? This is a significant moment! :) Of course I’m kidding… There are a couple of other things I can think of that we agree on.

        Actually, I think that, more often than not, we tend to agree on the general concept, but with slightly different approaches, so that when all is said and done, it looks like we completely disagree, even though our views really aren’t that far off. Hmm… “slightly different” opinions… we’re not from opposite universes, are we?

        “But definitely, I want their friendship to survive. The story has thrown them loops for a reason and I think we need to see them learn, reform and overcome better, stronger, wiser, and together – just not necessarily romantically together.”

        I’m glad to see you make that distinction that you are at least invested in the friendship relationship. The thing is, I’m not generally a big romantic type of person, so it didn’t really matter to me if they were involved romantically or not… But it does make sense to me, and I feel like they’ve built up to it in such a way that it works.

        The thing is that, like it or not, they did decide to take the relationship in that direction. So for me, since the relationship turned in that direction, it’s kind of like they started it, so now they need to finish it. I’m all for happy endings and letting the story come full circle, so since they started with that relationship, I kind of feel like they ultimately need to make that happen. Otherwise it’s going to lose much of the significance and emotional power. Additionally, I’m rather protective of Olivia, so seeing her so obviously in love with Peter, I want it to turn out happy for her. I don’t want her to have to live with yet another failed relationship.

        I don’t know if I’m explaining myself too well with this one, but essentially I’m saying that because they already crossed the line and moved from friendship towards possible romantic relationship, I want them to follow through with that and to allow the story a happy ending. Personally, it feels like they’ve sort of conveyed the point that Olivia and Peter belong together, so if they end up not resolving that relationship, I feel like it’s going to leave it with an unfinished feel. I would rather see them come full circle with that story — much like you always talk about the cyclical theme in the show. So if the friendship survives this, I would hope for the romantic relationship to survive as well. It may be damaged for a time, but if they can move past this, I think it could come back stronger than ever.

        As for the relationship I’m most invested in, I definitely love the Walter/Peter relationship and I love seeing them explore and develop that relationship, but I’ve always been partial to the Peter/Olivia relationship (romantic or friendship). Maybe that’s just because I am so fond of Olivia as a character, but I’ve always really liked that relationship of trust and loyalty that they have. It’s been very rewarding for me to see that develop over the seasons. And I suppose that’s why it bothers me so much to see the writers destroying that relationship by making Peter ignorant to the switch.

        “I don’t call Olivia ‘cold’ that often, do I?”

        Well, no… I guess I’m just still stuck back in the rewatch last year when practically every episode rewatch prompted a debate about Olivia being “cold.” And while I agree that there’s some truth to that observation, “cold” isn’t the word I would use to describe it.

        It’s nice to see you finding some time to respond to a few comments, Roco. It’s always interesting to get your response on various topics.

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  23. says

    “Don’t get me started… I’ve finally gotten to the point where I can reluctantly accept this being the way it is… even though I’m anything but happy about it. I’ve said it from the very beginning, and my opinion hasn’t changed: no matter how many excuses there are for Peter and the others over here, it cheapens the relationships among the characters (particularly the relationship between Peter and Olivia) for them all to be unaware and completely oblivious that this isn’t their Olivia. It’s saying that some imposter can come in and replace their Olivia and they don’t care enough to be able to realize what has happened. And that really makes me sad. The first two seasons have established some really great relationships between Olivia and the other characters. And I just can’t look at those relationships in the same way knowing that they can’t even see how drastically different alternate Olivia is.”

    I just copied the whole section because I agreed with every word of it. There is just no excuse or any possible way to explain how not one person in Olivia’s life hasn’t figured out that they are not with “their” Olivia. I’m with annon on this and it would have been better if the audience just didn’t know from the beginning. Even though we are clearly more perceptive than the rest of the characters are being written Over Here, we would have known immediately ( hello! Olivia in a bar without a drink!).

    The question is how will everyone cope once they learn the truth. The guilt is going to be incredible. Not only that, but the shame will be nearly unbearable ( or at least it should be — I’m looking at you Petah!).

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  24. TFT says

    I thought it was funny when Olivia tried to remember and say the numbers to Peter. Olivia is supposed to have photographic memory. She was a bit worried there.

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  25. MNTwinsFanID says

    First off, I would like to begin by stating I will eat as much crow as Roco and the rest of the community deems appropriate. I was wrong, wrong, wrong about Peter and Bolivia. I still don’t see why this has everyone with their undies in a bunch (frankly, I think it’s going to make Olivia’s return that much more spectacular). If you let the show tell the story instead of trying to tell the story what should happen, the results are going to be entertaining as hell. While I doubt it has anything to do with Bolivia, if you listen to the promo for 3.07, you can hear Peter clearly say, “First you’re going to tell me what you know, then I’m going to kill you.” Now if (and I gotta admit, given how Networks cut their promos, that’s a big IF) he’s talking to Bolivia, that’s going to be an electrifying scene. One way or another, though, he’s going to find out-and I’m hoping he’s as angry at Bolivia as he was at Walter at the hospital, or when he was going to break some kneecaps in season 1. He’s so much more fun than every other Peter-with the exception being Projection Peter.

    @Annon-while I agree that the whole Olivia/Bolivia storyline would have been better if we, the viewers didn’t know about it, I just don’t see any way that could have been done. Right from the minute Bell told Walter to Live Long and Prosper before sacrificing himself to save the Enterprise from Kahn-errrrr, ummm, I mean sacrificed himself to open the crack, I was screaming “It’s Not ‘Our’ Olivia!” And, really, the over there episodes would not be near as entertaining. 3.01 (“Olivia”) wouldn’t have happened-and Quite frankly I think that episode is to this point the best episode of Fringe to date, and I have enjoyed the red Fringe more than Blue Fringe this season (IMMHO). Thankfully Walternate and Brandonate have discovered the wonders of Cortexiphan, so I don’t think we’re done with the alternating schedule even though Olivia’s coming home. Remember, we still don’t know why Lee recognized Nick Lane, Bolivia still has to get home without Bell and Walter, and we still have to find out if anyone will learn the truth about Amber Victims.

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  26. says

    I have another question:

    If the First People made the Number Stations to transmit the numbers, hów come they were transmitting in modern day languages?

    We’ve heard Dutch, Hispanic and Japanese (or Russian). These are all modern languages. How would the First People know when and hów we used these languages; it would make much more sense (as in our own culture) that their language is ‘dead’ (e.g. not spoken or used anymore).

    In our modern culture we gasp at the Egyptian hieroglyphs, Mayan symbols and so on. It would make sense that the Number Stations would transmit in ancient ‘dead’ symbols, instead of modern languages.

    I know: for tv-land we skip a few details, but nevertheless….

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    • ApplesBananasRhinoceros says

      I agree, but it would’ve been very tedious to show the Fringe Team trying to understand and learn a ‘dead language’. What about we say that The First Peoples knew what languages would be used in the future or maybe the Observers went into the future or saw what languages would be recognizable to those they hoped would find and hear it. And didn’t they recently discover (physics-wise) that the future somehow affects the past? That’s my story and I’m sticking with it….

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      • says

        They didn’t say that the first signals heard were an understandable language. It could be that the first signal heard was a dead language but was identifiable as a number sequence. And once discovered it was translated to other languages by humans.

        Another possiblity is that there are still some First People around who are maintaining and updating the number sequences into modern languages.

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        • says

          If this was ‘Star Trek’, you bet that these kind of small details would raise questions. But then again, i can assure that a Trek-resolution would be that the Number Stations would be transmitting trhough a universal translator. ;) LOL

          ‘Fringe’ is more than a good show, it is a great show. And the staff knóws that us fans are turning over every stone to look for more details.
          Thus my question about the languages.

          Speaking of languages: we can now assume with great certainty that the language of the Observers is one and the same with the First People.

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  27. LizW65 says

    MNT wrote: “…while I agree that the whole Olivia/Bolivia storyline would have been better if we, the viewers didn’t know about it, I just don’t see any way that could have been done…”

    Agreed. The whole Over There storyline would have had to be dropped in order for it to work, and they’ve done some damn powerful storytelling Over There. It’s a trade-off. The biggest problem, as I see it, (and this went for the Shapeshifter/Charlie plot line as well,) is that we’re seeing the story spread out over a long period of time. In the Real World, it’s been about two months by now, what with hiatuses (hiati?) and all, but in the Fringe World, it’s only been a week or so, with the red and blue eps presumed to be occurring simultaneously. I actually can buy someone acting oddly for a week and nobody picking up on it, but two months is a stretch. I think that when the DVDs come out and we can watch the whole thing in one fell swoop (or even watch all the red eps first, then all the blues) it’ll be easier to suspend disbelief.

    I also agree whole heartedly with the following, in reference to the Peter/Olivia relationship: “…I still don’t see why this has everyone with their undies in a bunch (frankly, I think it’s going to make Olivia’s return that much more spectacular). If you let the show tell the story instead of trying to tell the story what should happen, the results are going to be entertaining as hell…”

    This. Personally, I’ve been thoroughly enjoying the story as told, instead of angsting about how various characters have “disappointed” me. I also happen to think that the relationship that we’ve seen building over two seasons will weather this, and possibly grow even stronger as a result. The producers have said many, many times that this is really a story about a family, and while it will take time and effort to re-establish the kind of trust that has been built up, I don’t think the family dynamic, or even the love story, is going to be permanently damaged as a result. As Peter said, there’s always hope.

    Now, having said that, I don’t think we’re going to get the big, dramatic confrontations and self-recrimination many fans are hoping for. Peter and Olivia are NOT given to big, emotional displays. They just aren’t. They push everything aside, bottle it up, and then turn to the whisky bottle and suffer from insomnia in the privacy of their own homes. I think we’re more likely to see the relationship start to repair itself little by little over the season, in small ways that are almost throwaways. (Remember last season when Peter finally called Walter “Dad” and barely noticed it? That’s the sort of thing I’m talking about.) Thoughts?

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    • fedorafadares says

      I agree that we probably won’t see huge, emotional displays, here. The characters are both subdued, emotionally.

      Look at the time it took for Peter to apologize for the near-kiss in Jacksonville. Granted, he didn’t know what was bothering Olivia, but it still took a long time to have a single, awkward conversation about something so small.

      What I can’t wait to see is exactly how it is handled. Will Olivia’s discovery of Peter’s intimacy be as simple as returning to her apartment and finding something of Peter’s — clothing, U2 tickets? Will she be privy to a showdown between Altlivia and Peter that will spill it all?

      I have a hard time envisioning Olivia crying and carrying on in front of Peter, or even discussing it with him, for that matter.

      I, too, believe she will suffer in silence. Peter will be too ashamed to say much to her. And they will walk along, side-by-side, working without acknowledging what happened.

      I think the hurt will be too great to address openly.

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    • Pierce says

      Over the latter half of the season, I think the relationships will slowly begin to repair themselves, but not without a few confrontations or a number of arrested conversations that are interrupted by one crisis or another. Those moments of things left unsaid or meaning implied in something that’s said is when Fringe is at its emotional best.

      To touch on a few things from Roco’s review:

      Anguish/Internal Altlivia.

      However one feels about Peter being snowed by Altlivia or the rest of the team not realizing they have an imposter on their team by now, I think the biggest letdown of the story so far has been the lack of exploration of Altlivia’s character.

      My expectation going into the season was to see her struggle with the decision to infiltrate our team when she encountered our team individually, which would allow me (the audience) to relate to her on a personal level. We’d dislike what she’s doing, but would be torn because we’ve gotten insight into who she is. So far, it’s been a very shallow peek. There doesn’t appear to be a sense of wonder about the glaring differences in the Astrids and the Walter’s. There’s been no curiosity regarding Olivia’s life. Who she dated, how she came to be an FBI agent and eventually the Fringe team. Her relationship with Rachel and Ella. Physically, she’s gotten closer to Peter, but has she tried to get to know him personally? Same with this Broyles? I realize there’s the fear of getting too involved, but as Newton taunted, her emotions betray her at night…I’d like to see that.

      Walter:

      I mentioned this on the episode thread the other day, but I’ll bring it up again. It’s difficult, in my opinion, to paint Walter’s geniune love and fear behind what Peter’s building that device and what it might mean with a wide brush of selfishness. Walter may have handled himself childishly, but I believe his objections came from an understandable place. At this point, there’s no separation between his love for his Peter and Walternate’s Peter, and that’s the place I believe he was speaking from. Parents who made horrible, damaging choices in their pasts constantly try to disuade their children from taking the same path. That’s not selfishness, it’s accountability.

      All that being said, ultimately, Walter decided to stop trying to stand in Peter’s way and serve as his cautionary tale with hope that whatever the device is or what it does they can use it to create rather than destroy. And let’s not forget, this isn’t your garden variety issue they’re dealing with. The fabric of two universes are at stake once again.

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      • Pam says

        “It’s difficult, in my opinion, to paint Walter’s geniune love and fear behind what Peter’s building that device and what it might mean with a wide brush of selfishness. Walter may have handled himself childishly, but I believe his objections came from an understandable place. At this point, there’s no separation between his love for his Peter and Walternate’s Peter, and that’s the place I believe he was speaking from. Parents who made horrible, damaging choices in their pasts constantly try to disuade their children from taking the same path. That’s not selfishness, it’s accountability.”

        Beautifully said! I totally agree!

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  28. YourPique says

    Good review, as usual. Just a few notes.

    The producers have hinted that Sam Weiss is a First Person…the show sometimes leave red herrings, but the producer interviews that show up on Fox and hulu and whatnot are usually canon.

    I would believe that Over There, they are aware of the First People, since it was shown in their Fringe opening sequence.

    Markham said the numbers were the first thing heard Over Here when Marconi invented the radio – but they may have came from Over There (they ARE more technologically advanced…)

    …and really? No one mentioned the Ghost Network?

    I think the show is leading to the First People, how they did precede dinosaurs and OUR evolution. Amy Jessup’s connections to Revelations might hint that even in “our” ancient history, stories of the First People were already getting around?

    Regarding the eye color, recall that one of the season 1 Fringe comics told the story of a reporter that visited Massive Dynamic, and when she left, she had a different eye color…

    And my last comment on “The Machine” – I see Walternate’s plan backfiring. Maybe the season 3 finale will show the machine assembled on both sides, Walternate ready to hit the switch, and when he does, and we are left with a YELLOW flash, and what is revealed to be a 3rd universe.
    Just a thought…

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  29. BklynBetty says

    “Peter and Olivia are NOT given to big, emotional displays. They just aren’t. They push everything aside, bottle it up, and then turn to the whisky bottle and suffer from insomnia in the privacy of their own homes.”

    “I, too, believe she will suffer in silence. Peter will be too ashamed to say much to her. And they will walk along, side-by-side, working without acknowledging what happened.”

    Agree with both of you here. I think there will be some emotional ‘fall-out’ for this story – i just think they’ll mostly be internal, or hinted at. I think it’s going to be mostly acted out with looks and extreme awkwardness. The “big emotional displays” are mostly *Ours* as invested viewers – and i think that’s allowed.

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    • says

      I agree with you all too. My viewpoint is that Olivia will be very confused about how she feels about the whole thing. When they parted ways they weren’t really in a romantic relationship yet. They were just on the cusp of it. So in one sense, if she looks at it as though Peter betrayed her, she will be unsure of herself because they really weren’t in a fully committed relationship yet. But if she looks at it as though he thought he was with her, she will have to acknowledge that he was at least trying to engage in a fully committed relationship with her. And then a third wrench will be that she has lived as Altlivia and will know that they are very different and will condemn Peter for not being able to tell the difference. I can see where it will leave her very unsure of herself. And the writers have deliberately written the story in a way that Olivia didn’t do anything physical with Frank but Peter and Altlivia definitely did. They want it to be more one-sided. So in that sense, Peter is going to feel terribly guilty but also he’ll probably be fairly defensive given that he didn’t know it wasn’t her.

      Any way it plays out, however, I do not see them having a huge blow-out fight about it. It will definitely be subdued but smoldering. But I don’t see the situation as totally hopeless. Because when it comes down to it, neither one has ever stopped loving the other, no matter what the circumstances. And when two people are in love, a lot can be forgiven.

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      • Pierce says

        I agree.

        There’s also the entire experience of being brainwashed, being trapped in another world, experiencing the life complete with memories and adopted skills of her doppleganger that will shape Olivia going foward.

        I think the fallout from the team being infiltrated should be fascinating. There’s so many emotional levels to explore from all the characters perspectives. Personally, I’m looking foward to seeing the dynamics of the team being rebuilt. There’s been a violation professionally and personally. Does Olivia find herself struggling to trust the team seeing all of them were duped by her doppleganger? Will she question her place amongst the group? Same goes for alternate Olivia. Will Charlie and Lincoln begin to question her loyalty now? Will she begin to work against Walternate’s plans?

        I can’t wait to see how this plays out.

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      • says

        It should be interesting to note that you can’t assume anything just because it’s not on screen.

        Frank and Olivia had two nights in their apartment together. It’s implied that they would sleep together in the same bed.

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    • MNTwinsFanID says

      Oh, I have no doubts that Olivia and Peter will drown their sorrows in some fine single malt. When in times of emotional turmoil Peter drinks, Olivia really drinks, and Walter hits the bong. Apparently Astrid is the only one who doesn’t self medicate-she just bakes (although that’s still escapist behavior). While I’m on the subject, it would appear that since Bolivia can’t stand booze, our Olivia as Bolivia has turned to pill-popping instead. So I would agree that when dealing with each other, they will probably suffer in silence. I’m just going off of what I think I heard on the promo, and I’m hearing Peter as angry, or angrier, as when he realized what Walter had done. And really, who can blame him, if it’s true. I know I’ve seen thoughts to this effect somewhere, but he’s now been duped by everyone who he’s tried to love. Walter kidnapped him, and caused his mother to commit suicide. Walternate supposedly came to get him to heal the worlds, but neglected to mention that the Wavesink of DOOMVacuum might cause him some bodily harm. Now he thinks he’s got this amazing connection with Olivia, only for him to (eventually) find out that it’s been Bolivia, and she’s been faking it the whole time. That’d make me wanna be “ridin’ solo”

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  30. ApplesBananasRhinoceros says

    Also want to throw in there the Marconi vs. Tesla conflict: who REALLY invented the ability to send/receive radio transmissions first? Seems like Tesla and Marconi were neck and neck working on it, but Tesla filed his patents first. But through a series of unlucky events (a fire at Tesla’s lab being one of them) Marconi’s patents were upheld, even though he was using a “Tesla oscillator”. Eventually in the 40s Tesla’s patents were upheld mainly because the US gov’t didn’t want to shell out money from a lawsuit.

    Also read this about Tesla:

    “One night in his laboratory, Tesla noticed a repeating signal being picked-up by his transmitter. To his own amazement, he believed that he was receiving a signal from outer space. Tesla was widely ridiculed when he announced this discovery, but it is possible that he was the first man to detect radio waves from space.”

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  31. Anne says

    As English is not my mother tongue, I’m gonna have some difficulties to express exactly what I want to, but I’ll try, so excuse me in advance for my mistakes ;)

    So I have to say that I disagree with those who don’t like, and even hate for some of you, Altlivia. Of course, I’d prefer to see Peter sleeping with our Olivia (yes I definitely love their relationship – very girly sorry ;) – and I completely trust the writers for giving us a great love story without letting it come over the show) BUT I really love Altlivia’s character. I love to notice all the differences between the two Olivia’s, to see how they handle things differently: in their relationship with Peter, with Walter, how they face the difficulties… This “switching” situation really gives us some great stories and it gives us the opportunity to increase our knowledge of the other side.
    I think maybe I love Altlivia so much thanks to the wonderful performance of Anna. She’s so amazing. Her acting is so subtle to show the differences between her two characters, but also to show the inner dilemma Altlivia has to face.
    Just two examples:
    - in DSDOES, when Altliv comes to the prison to see Newton, when she arrives she is very self-confident, she controls the situation, she is the “boss” and she knows it. And you can feel it in the way Anna walks and behaves. She has her “cocky” behaviour. And then, because of what Newton says, little by little, you can see on her face she realises she will have to sleep with Peter and she’s quite terrified by that. ‘Cause I really think that Altliv is human after all and that she doesn’t forget her own moral lines. So when she leaves the prison, the way she walks is completely different from before: you can feel the tension, the burden of her mission, you just have the impression that she’s in the death row walking to the electric chair! That’s an amazing performance from Anna and I really think that this moment shows us Altliv is human and that she definitely has scruples.
    - In this episode (6955 kHz), when Altliv and Peter are in bed and Walter calls Peter. When Peter turns his back to her, you can see Altliv putting her hands on her chest just as if she had some difficulties to breathe and at the same time she has this look telling “Gosh I think I like this guy, how am I going to manage all this?” Again, so human reaction when we know what her mission is.

    And there are so many more examples to show that this character is really interesting and worthy. I love our Olivia too, don’t get me wrong (especially with what she lives right now on the other side), but I really wanted to come to Altliv defence. So even if I think Peter could have noticed the switch (as LizW65 says, in his defense, this is only about one week in their world), I really trust the writers who have always done a wonderful job with this show. They’ve never disappointed me.
    And I will never say enough that Anna is doing an amazing job with these two characters. She’s perfect.
    Hope I’ve been clear :s ;)

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    • says

      Clear as a bell, Anne. Thanks for sharing your viewpoint. While I can’t say that I love Altlivia, I do feel for her and her position. And many of her decisions she is making in terms of killing people, while it does seem cold and calculating, to her she feels these are her only options. We need to remember that Over There, Fringe is a branch of the military. And soldiers like Olivia are trained to follow orders no matter what and to do whatever it takes to make the mission succeed. Because of the way she is infiltrating our side and lying (as part of her mission) to everyone around her, the writers make it so that we can’t like her very much. But the more she assimilates to this side, the more humanity we see from her and thus, the more we start to like her. I have a feeling that the second she is back Over There we will all like her immensly. I agree with mlj that they could have done more to humanize her in the first few episodes but I think it was done that way on purpose so that we could see the shift in her perspective from fully committed to and believing in her mission (because she believes in Walternate) to doubting her mission and Walternate. I feel it has been necessary for us to not like her so that it makes the shift all the more credible. The first 2 episodes Over There, Olivia basically was Altlivia and we had no problem with her at all.

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      • runthegamut says

        “The first 2 episodes Over There, Olivia basically was Altlivia and we had no problem with her at all.”

        With due respect, I don’t think the two situations are comparable. Ourliv acted like Altliv, but a) we watched the transition happen, and watched our Ourliv fight it every step of the way, b) we knew she was still in there somewhere, under the Altliv veneer and would see that come out now and then and c) most importantly, Ourliv is still the main protagonist, the one we have followed and rooted for for 2 seasons. We still liked her because we were pulling for her to make it through her current trial, which included grappling with a new identity that had been foisted on her.

        I will admit I’m of the camp that still believes we’ve been given precious little reason to like Altliv, and small humanizing moments are just not enough for me to get behind her yet. She’s simply not the one I’m vested in, and right now she is working against the characters I care about. If that changes in the future, great, but for now, she still on my #$%^ list.

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        • ApplesBananasRhinoceros says

          It took a lot of us a LOOOONG time to warm up to Our Olivia, so I would think it would take more than a few episodes to warm up to Alt-Livia, too.

          So, I don’t HATE Alt-Livia, I’m just beyond ready for the Original Livia to get back home…

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        • says

          I totally agree with you in that respect and it’s what I’ve been trying (albeit badly) to say. The only reason we all think Altlivia is evil is because of how she affects the characters we’ve come to care about. And the only reason we like Olivia as Altlivia is because of who we know she really is. It’s our personal motivations that are driving our likes and dislikes of these characters, not necessarily the actual characters as they’ve been written.

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      • Xindilini says

        I’m absolutely excited by the Alt-livia’s journey to change more so than Olivia’s journey home. Somewhere along the way, you are going to recognize that they are one and the same. So I choose not to judge her like everyone else. Just because her motivations are less than moral at the moment, it doesn’t make her a terrible person over here.

        I have a feeling her part in this will be much more important than any other character in the final face-off between red and blue.

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        • mlj102 says

          I have to admire your optimism. Personally, while they’ve made progress with alternate Olivia’s character, I don’t feel like they’ve done nearly enough with her to make me feel that enthusiastic about her story. I don’t think she’s terrible. I’m still open to her character, and I agree that her journey is intriguing. But I have no investment in her. I’ve said a lot about how I wish they had made better use of exploring her character so far. I would be a whole lot more optimistic towards her and willing to give her the benefit of the doubt if we’d seen more of her journey in coming over here. I’d like to have seen her respond to the differences over here. I’d like to see her being a bit more vulnerable and displaying how this mission is weighing on her. I’d like to see her a bit more torn. I’d like to see a more genuine side of her. Yes, we’ve seen small amounts of that, but not nearly enough to make me as invested in her and her journey as you have suggested here.

          It’s interesting to me to see how so many people have been talking about our Olivia being influenced by living alternate Olivia’s life. There’s been a lot of discussion about how this experience should make her rethink her own life. Of course she would notice things that alternate Olivia has that she doesn’t have, and it would make her consider making changes to herself and her lifestyle to possibly adopt some of what’s good and positive in alternate Olivia. But I haven’t seen anyone talk about it in terms of alternate Olivia. I’d like to see her analyzing our Olivia’s life and considering things Olivia has that she doesn’t have. I’d like to see her rethink parts about her life and reflect on things that she wishes were different. I don’t like all this focus on Olivia considering how her life could be different, as if saying she doesn’t have a good life or she’s somehow inferior to alternate Olivia. Olivia has many positive qualities and just like alternate Olivia has developed certain things that could be considered weaknesses on our Olivia’s part, I think the same could be said for Olivia and that she has developed things that are weaknesses alternate Olivia has. I wish we could see more of that realization and discovery on alternate Olivia’s part.

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          • says

            It’s not so much Alt-Livia’s life is any better than Olivia’s. You can say she seemed narrowminded. If anything this experience will make her examine her choices since crossing over. I’m hope they do explore that in the upcoming episodes. It feels like she will be around for bit after Olivia comes back. I wouldn’t be surprised if she gets caught in a sort of controntational crossfire, between Walternate / Peter / Walter.

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    • says

      Ooh! Thank you for writing that.

      I also noticed Alt-Liv expression change as she left Newton’s cell. Brilliantly acted. Just to prove that you don’t need a whole lot of dialogue to convey an emotion. Human not monster. She’s doing her job to the best of her ability.

      The moment in the Woomer house between her and Walter is another one I think where we see her true self come out.

      It will be interesting to see how she will face her demons, when her mission comes to an abrupt end. I think she is capable of greatness, because she is also Olivia Dunham, if Charlie and Lincoln are an indication of what she is like.

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  32. loveit says

    I get how annoying it is that nobody has noticed the differences in Altlivia. And I also get how it seems like FOREVER for us since the season started two months ago, but in the last episode did we not determine that it had only been a few weeks (tops?).
    It’s not the most unbelievable thing in the world and hardly cheapens the relationships between characters to such the extreme extent that some commentators are suggesting. It often takes people substantial time to REALLY notice something is wrong / different with loved ones. It then takes even longer to decide to do anything about it. While I am disappointed in the characters it is only because I would have liked to believe that they are “better” than most of us, or more perceptive, due to their intelligence. But instead, I think that the characters are re-acting to (Alt)Olivia in a completely normal and understandable way, knowledge of an alternate universe or not.

    Additionally, when would the switch have happened? Olivia confessed her “love” to Peter and then never left his side until they arrived at the theatre. At which time she was accompanied by Bell. As far as Peter and Walter are concerned, Bell was with her and came back into the theatre with her – they don’t know Bell lost consciousness and that there was an opportunity for the old “switcheroo”. And Bell’s dead now, so nobody is going to tell them. Even if she’s acting “weird” in their minds their was no point in time at which the switch could have happened.

    Long winded, I know, but come on….

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  33. AriC says

    Ok. While I dislike Peter not realizing that the Olivias have been switched, I find it believable to the extent that it has only been what, about a week or two since the switch happened? It stands to reason that it just has not been long enough for the behavioral gaps to be noticed, especially when they probably did not know each other on a “personal” level as much as a work relationship and so much of their time together is spent “working”.
    But here is the problem for me, because it is in the “work” arena that the differences should have been so apparent, especially to Broiles and Peter. The “blue” Olivia is all work and no play, she presumably has been the primary investigator/detective of the pattern, who always connects the dots and solves the problems. Since the switch, I feel it should have been apparent the little value she has brought to the team in terms of her contributions towards solving the week’s case. So they go to the AU and Olivia comes back jovial but also a useless backup airhead, who is no longer a leader, has nothing important to contribute to each case, sneaks off on her own solo roundups way too often, has bad memory, “looses” the shape shifter she was chasing at MD headquaters, shoots the one this week right on the micro-chip and no one suspects???? Are we supposed to ignore that since the switch Peter and even Walter have had more one on one time with Broyles than Olivia?? After how many moles have been previously detected in the Fringe division? She goes off and slips Newton the cyanide pill and THAt didn’t get back to Broyles??? HOW???????!!!!????? I am only hoping Broyles knows and that there’s a reason why he has not said. That is what seems the most “contrived” to me, the fact that she probably has broken more procedure and protocol sionce shes been back without being questioned.
    And it is also the reason why it bugs me that people feel that Bolivia is the better fully realized Olivia. I feel Bolivia is a Robocop, who may or may not develop feelings for Peter and this side of humanity. She is a shallow and ambitious person who, not having calculated the personal risk of the mission, is in over her head. Where she may have made choices that led her to be a happier person, she may not be the greater human being of the two. Olivia, on the other hand is less cop-like but more cut like a true superhero: tragic, self-sacrificing and deep. This is the BETTER Olivia.

    I also think that the fragility of the alternate universe shows that theirs is the #2.. the “blue” does not appear to be affected as the “red” when cross-universe portals are openned. I believe that their fragility stems from the fact that they are not the first Universe. This is why THEY are the ones that have the difficulty with opening portals and retaining the integrity of their environment. It could also mean that their Universe may not be able to exist without ours, which could be why the observers interfered to retrieve peter, in order to make sure the “prime” universe would not be destroyed.

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    • Paladinobr says

      “Olivia, on the other hand is less cop-like but more cut like a true superhero: tragic, self-sacrificing and deep.” AriC, you said everything that I think Olivia is. She’s our superhero and this is the reason I have some difficult to see Peter at the same level as her. She was abused by Walter when she was a child, by walternate now and betrayed by Peter, but even with all this things she’s still a good person and still wants to save the universe. Peter on the other hand didn’t prove to me that he’s worth to be with Olivia yet. Maybe I just want to see Peter as a hero like our Olivia is. However I have faith on the writers and I hope that they find a way to put them together again.

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      • number six says

        I strongly disagree with this. I don’t want to see Peter turn into Olivia Pt.II to be worthy of her (whatever that means). I prefer to see Peter being human and flawed, while Olivia is the superhero.

        It’s the same trouble people have with the producers, when they say that Altlivia is the perfect version of Olivia, something I strongly disagree with. Let the characters be different and do their own stuff. I like my Peter incredibly flawed and I like my Walter incredibly selfish with glimpses of self-sacrifice. Thank you so much! :-)

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  34. YourPique says

    Oh, and NO comments on how Altivia is beginning to dress like herself??

    Eg. the leather jacket when she arrives on the crime scene at the beginning – something our Olivia would never wear on a normal basis.

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  35. mlj102 says

    A lot of people have started to defend the fact that no one has realized that alternate Olivia isn’t Olivia by claiming that not enough time has passed. While I acknowledge that sometimes it can take a long time for people to pick up on those kinds of differences, I have to say, I’m not convinced by this line of thinking.

    First off, while I understand what people say that sometimes it takes time to notice these kinds of things, a contrasting point of view is that the fact that not much time has passed makes the differences that much more obvious. I loved the scene in The Box when alternate Olivia was watching the tape of our Olivia in a debriefing because seeing them side by side like that, there was no question that they were different, and you could easily tell which was which. So anyone who knows Olivia at all — which includes all of the main characters — should easily be able to instantly see that Olivia has drastically changed. The contrast is too big to overlook.

    And sure, she has the excuse that she went through a life-changing experience. But so did the others, and they haven’t changed like that. And big experience or not, no one is going to change that dramatically and that fundamentally in such a short period of time.

    Leaving that aside, as far as I’m concerned, it doesn’t matter how much time has passed — whether it’s a day or a year — the differences are there and they’re as clear as day. She’s got a different attitude and a different personality. She has a different approach to work. She dresses slightly differently. Her body posture is different. And those are just the subtle things. Olivia of the photographic memory suddenly struggles to recite a list of numbers. She’s “forgotten” who Markham is. She doesn’t have the same relationships with the other team members. She’s not as committed to the cases as our Olivia is. She doesn’t contribute as much. She’s suddenly reduced to a nervous wreck simply because she was confronted by a shapeshifter. She acted like she could have cared less when they were chasing Newton. She’s suddenly extremely direct in pursuing a relationship with Peter. I could go on and on, but you get my point. One or two of those things, I could maybe accept. But all of that? No way. There have been plenty of differences and they are not small or insignificant things. They are things that are central to who our Olivia is and they are things that anyone who knows her should be able to pick up on.

    I’m going to pick on Peter because he’s the most guilty one when it comes to knowing Olivia the best. Over two years, he’s gotten to know her pretty well. He knows that it’s “just like her” to be protecting others even when she’s the one in danger. He knows that she does “that thing with your mouth when you’re upset.” He knows about her ability with numbers and memory. He knows how she carries the burden on her own and takes things very personally. He knows how she will go to any length to solve a case. He knows that she’s not very good at letting people help her. He knows the extraordinary things she’s capable of. He knows her.

    And when all is said and done, the excuse that “not enough time has passed for anyone to realistically be able to pick up on the differences” is disproved by the fact that people HAVE noticed. They’re just ignoring it. Peter noticed enough to say that alternate Olivia is “practically a completely different person”. He’s aware of the differences. But for whatever reason, he’s still blind to the truth. So the fact that he sees the differences yet ignores them is like saying that he doesn’t care that this person he works with closely and this person he loves (and he did love her before the switch happened) is suddenly a completely different person. It says that it doesn’t matter to him if someone completely different comes in and replaces her. It says that he must have never really cared for who Olivia REALLY is.

    So, yes, I see that as a betrayal. Yes, I see that as destroying the relationships that have been established. And while I’m more than happy to sit back and enjoy the story, and I’m typically pretty flexible and lenient with the way the writers decide to take the story, this one really bothers me. One of the things I love about Fringe is the relationships and the interactions between the characters. I love to watch them go through experiences that bond them closer together emotionally. So I can’t just ignore it when they practically throw those relationships out the window all to satisfy the storyline of alternate Olivia successfully infiltrating our side. It’s unbelievable and it’s disappointing.

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    • annon says

      While I agree with most of what you have said, unfortunately for us this is the story that the writers have written.

      It seems that they are all unaware and she has given reasonable reasons for acting different and they’ve accepted that. The writers want them all to be betrayed by Bolivia and Walternate, Peter especially. So, while I agree with all the points you have put forward about her differences, unfortunately, the writers want us to turn a blindeye to those.

      The biggest character assassination is Peters. We’ve all talked about how the writers have done a complete 360 in terms of how he has been portrayed over the last two seasons. For me it just confirms even further, that Peter is a plot device and they change him to fit in with the storyline. I think we will have to agree to disagree on your point that Peter never really cared for who Olivia really is. I don’t think that is the story that the writers are telling. I would be very surprised and extremely disappointed if they went there. I think it is basically Peter loving who he thinks is his Olivia and not putting the pieces together. He is being duped and betrayed by her. I can see that having a huge impact on Peter’s state of mind for the rest of the season.

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      • mlj102 says

        I understand this is the approach the writers have taken, and there’s nothing we can do about it, and I have to accept that, but that doesn’t mean I like it any better.

        “I don’t think that is the story that the writers are telling. I would be very surprised and extremely disappointed if they went there. I think it is basically Peter loving who he thinks is his Olivia and not putting the pieces together.”

        But that’s the problem — that’s what makes me so upset about where they’ve taken this story. I think they HAVE gone there. That’s how I interpret it. The whole point of my previous comment was that Peter knows Olivia extremely well. So I can’t accept the idea that he’s “loving who he thinks is his Olivia” because he knows his Olivia, and this imposter is definitely not her. He knows she’s completely different, yet he’s still pursuing the relationship. The differences between the two Olivias are subtle, but they’re also fundamental. By him being unwilling to acknowledge that this person he’s with isn’t the person he knows, it suggests that he’s not that attached to what makes our Olivia the person she is. If he truly loved his Olivia, he would know that this person is not her. So it completely takes away from everything they have established between them up to this point. But as you said, I suppose we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one.

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        • augusta says

          Just wanted to say that I completely agree with you, mlj02. Whether or not I understand Peter’s point of view (he’s been betrayed/abandoned by everyone he loves, he is just desperate for happiness, he’s horny/blinded by love… whatevs), I can’t see how it makes lack of insight ok. And the fact that he is aware that there is something off about this Olivia — but he doesn’t do anything at all about it… it’s beyond frustrating, and also a little unbelievable. Perhaps if the writers hadn’t highlighted endlessly how intelligent Peter is, how he’s a con artist, how he reads people so easily, maybe I wouldn’t be as bitter about it, but they wrote that in there. And I guess now they are writing it out.
          It destroys the romance between Peter and the real Olivia for me — when he keeps saying how he likes all the changes in her, he’s basically saying he likes Altlivia better than Olivia, which makes love between him and the original Olivia less compelling to say the least. Trying to put myself in Olivia’s shoes — I’d honestly feel like a substitute (interesting turn of events) if I knew about his preferences.
          I hope that it is true that they are ditching the Peter/Olivia romance altogether. Because if Peter’s ignorance is for real, it a true betrayal. Not an intentional one (poor Peter) but a betrayal nonetheless. And regardless of how sorry he is, there are some things that you can’t realistically come back from. I mean… he likes Altlivia better. How do you change that?
          Maybe they are going to try and make Olivia into the best of them both, now that she’s got Altlivia’s memories in her? Hm. Worser and worser…

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      • bdp says

        While I do agree with you on pretty much everything you’ve said mlj, and it definitely really bothers me that nobody, especially Peter, has picked up on the ruse yet…I have to agree with annon that I wouldn’t go so far as to say it’s Peter never really caring about who Olivia really is. Sure there is damage that has definitely been done and while I love the show it pains me to say that I think the writers slipped up a bit on this part of the story. But I think ultimately Peter being so easily duped is not because he never really cared about the real Olivia but more because he is so much in love with her that he’s willing to basically take anything, strange changes and all, as long as he has her. I think he’s just basically so in love with Olivia and he’s so happy to finally be with her (although yes it’s not really her) that he has just convinced himself that it is her and he writes the differences off even though he has constantly outright admitted that he’s noticed them. A lot of it goes back to the conversations he had with Altlivia in DSDOES. The conversations he had with her touched on having a “transactional needs” which would be like he said “he gets her” and also how Van Horn’s wife just found ways to dismiss the oddities, she was happily married so she convinced herself it was nothing.

        Like Newton said I think somewhere inside Peter really does know it’s not his Olivia, not in the fully grasping it sense but he knows somethings wrong, but he’s just denying it to the extreme so he can hold onto his happiness.

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        • Anne says

          Exactly what I wanted to say bdp. Thanks for that :)

          Just to add a little thing. In real life, do you really think that a person truly in love with another is going to leave just because of some small changes?? Cause these changes are not THAT big. Of course, we can see differences, but Altlivia knows her job and she takes care of being as closer as possible to Olivia’s personality. So Peter sees the differences but not fundamental changes, so I don’t see why he should run away from her because of that. And as loveit said, they have no clues at all that could let them think a switch happened. So I think I have to say that I have more sympathy for Peter (for what he’s going to face when he’ll know) than I am angry with him. And of course I also think of our Olivia :(

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  36. runpaceyrun says

    Let me say right up front that i loved this episode. I didnt think i would given what happened in the last few moments of the previous “Over There” episode. I didnt like the scene in Olivias apartment with Altlivia and Peter however. I was actually swearing at cursing at Altlivia. I will also be upfront and say i loathe Altlivia. Anna has done a brilliant job portraying Olivia / Altivia…..but that doesnt stop me from totally disliking Altliv. I have no sympathy or empathy for her whatsoever. To me she is just going about her mission and she doesnt care who or what she hurts (or kills) in the process. Unlike other Fringe fans i cannot see any pangs of guilt or remorse in Altlivia……but i will admit that that may be because i cannot get past my loathing of this character. How can a person who is ok with killing people also be displaying remorse, guilt or even feelings of confusion? To me it just doesnt wash. But as i said……it may be because i cannot stand the woman. I seriously just want Olivia back. Olivia is a different person to Altlivia…..more compassion, more thoughtful…more ballsy!
    I will also say that i am one of the few Fringe fans that didnt want Peter and Olivia to get together. So i hope that this storyline appeases you guys. It is romance but not as you would have liked. Dont get me wrong, i am enjoying this storyline BUT i am stressing out quite a lot…..Peter is my favourite character and him not knowing that Olivia is not Olivia is killing me. Geez….the writers better make up for that one. Peter is perceptive and he’s been made to look a fool. Mind you he not the only one. Once again……i cant wait for Olivia to come back. The storylines that follow her return will no doubt be awesome and will be acted out superbly by the team. There will no doubt be plenty of angst, pain, regret, anger and tears from all members of the Fringe team (and some viewers as well)……..but it will be worth it!
    Roco, wheres the love for Walter? I can fully understand his point of view at this moment. He is reacting at a very base level to the situation……he doesnt want to help Peter with the device because he is simply scared for him. He loves Peter and he doesnt want to see him hurt or used and he definitely doesnt want to lose him again. At the very core of this show is the relationship between a father and son…fractured as it may be……but its there. Its beautifully played out by John and Josh……and is the very reason i am addicted and obsessed by Fringe. Walter will rise to the occassion…and he will help Peter…again because he loves him. Didnt mean to get all soppy..sorry.
    One thing to add to the list of ” great crimes” committed in Olivia’s apartment….
    Altlivia wearing Olivia’s clothes…..especially her North Western t-shirt. When she realises what went on in her apartment she will want to torch everything, especially her clothes and bed (but not Peter)……in fact she should just torch the entire place. Better to be on the safe side.
    There is a brilliant piece of fan fiction at fanfiction.net that beautifully describes what one fan thinks will happen between Olivia and Peter when she finally returns home. If you have the time …..read it…its awesome. And no, i didnt write it nor do i know there person who did write it. Its just a beautifully written piece of writing. I actually felt physical pain when i was reading it. My heart broke for Peter and Olivia…..it really was wonderful to read.
    Cant wait for episode 3.08 “Entrada” During a recent interview Josh said that the romance between Altliv and Peter seems to be going along fine for about 8 days and then something major happens. I hope this was a clue for the fans…..and that episode 3.08 provides the pay off for all us Fringies. I cannot wait for Altlivia to be found out….and for Olivia to come back home where she belongs. Hope Henry is the hero that saves the day!

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  37. says

    My hope is that the awesome thing the producers / writers are promising for this season has to do with making people feel sympathy toward Alt-Livia. There is even a likely chance the first person to forgive her will be Olivia. Don’t be so shock. It’s what will make Fringe stand out from other shows.
    I like to think I getting close with the fics I write.

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  38. Laura says

    That was a really disturbing episode….which is good, as disturbing is what a fringe episode is supposed to be.
    Maybe it’s because I have a big crash for numbers and numerology in general, but I really loved this storyline. I think it brought the show to a further level, and its was damned time, as this “first people” thing appeared last season.
    Still, there are some details I really do not undestand, the main (also related to mlj’s comments) being: why fringe people over here do not talk to each other? Why Nina didn’t tell a word to Walter, if she noticed something weird about (Alt)Olivia?
    I undestand Peter, who is romantically involved (arghhhhhhhhh).
    I undestand Walter, who is really concerned about the device and related stuff (and the heck he is, as Roco said: he IS Walternate at some stage, he knows how he thinks or at least he figures out )
    What about the others???
    I still love Walter. This is not his season, he’s giving room to other characters, and still his presence counts a lot. I think, someway, the whole episode was about Walter’s choice to work on the device.
    That said: please, no more f**-cough- romantic Altlivia-Peter scenes. Enough.

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  39. LizW65 says

    Someone posted the following on another site and I thought it sounded as plausible a theory as any we have heard so far:

    “How about this idea? The First People (possibly the Observers*) built The Vacuum, but it caused a giant accident that split a single universe in two. The accident also caused pieces of the machine to be scattered between the two universes. There may be a multiverse aside from these two, but the red and blue ‘verses are not naturally occurring, and since they started out as one, that’s why people can travel between them, and why the barrier is degrading, endangering redverse. The Vacuum can only be used by someone who is from both halves of the universe. Peter is the only person who’s spent years in each universe, and maintained molecular stability (or whatever phlebotinum they said prevents him kersploding like Bell did). Therefore, Peter is the only person who can operate The Vacuum. Does it destroy one universe, meld them together keeping elements of each, or possible fully realize each ‘verse as a separate, stable entity?…”

    Whaddya think?

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    • runpaceyrun says

      Liz…for my own peace of mind an sanity….i would like to think that the vaccuum will help keep both “Over Here” and ” Over There” as seperate and complete universes. As much as i dislike Altlivia and Walternate ….i do not want to see anyone die “Over There”. I’m a peace lovin possum like Peter. I believe and hope …..the same as Peter……there is hope to keep both universes safe from further damage!

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    • Laura says

      Interesting theory, but I’m afraid I do not agree for several reasons.
      Firstly,that “the boy is important” sentence from September : it has been said before Peter had the chance to spend time in this universe, right after his kidnapping (AFAIR).
      Secondly, I don’t think the pieces were randomly scattered at all; on the contrary, they were hidden. And I’m quite confindent there are two different version of the machine, one for each universe.

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  40. Xochitl says

    ok, I was going to make a mile of comment but don’t have the time, but here is something for those who are (were) dishing peter:

    “Peter pretty much believes that’s his Olivia. He’s just clocking the changes that are going on with her, what he thinks is an existential change for the character, since she’s been through so much and has come back. [He thinks she] has seen what you could call the error of her ways in how she’s lived her life, and that she’s sort of had this epiphany where she sees the world so much clearer than she did before. He [sees] normal changes that are more about her personality, rather than suspecting she’s not who she says she is.”

    I felt like a lot of you that Peter was just being bling to not want to see the truth, after I read this I understood better what is going through Peter’s head, and honestly, he is not having a day trip either, when the truth hits the fan can you even imagine how is he going to feel? cheated, guilty and a ton of other things mixed with what he already has to deal with, right now I’m feeling more sorry for him (just because of that breakfast in bed scene) than actually being angry at him, he is just so in love and the truth is going to destroy him as much as is going to destroy olivia.

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  41. says

    I’m so in the minority here about liking Alt-Livia’s journey, it feels like I am watching a different Fringe than the rest of the world.

    If you are interested at all, click on my name to see what parallel I managed to find this week.

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    • fringefan2009 says

      You know what, I do not like Altivia, but my friend, whom I got to watch the show loves her. He says that she is very in touch with her emotions and you can see every bit of it run through her, and I have to agree. She is much more of an external reactor, and Olivia is much more internal.

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  42. says

    It’s also interesting to note that Walter’s line to Alt-Livia, “Let’s focus on putting a stop to this before more people get hurt.”

    I imagine it would be a lot like what Walternate would have told her when he enlisted her for this mission.

    Wouldn’t be something if Walter is the one to put the first grains of doubt in Alt-Liv’s mind.

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  43. Count Screwloose says

    SECRETARY BISHOP: Nature doesn’t recognize good and evil, Phillip. Nature only recognizes balance and imbalance. I intend to restore balance to our world. Whatever it takes.

    ASTRID: (Reading the book) They were a people of great technological prowess who made the ultimate discovery. A mechanism known to them as The Vacuum, containing at once both the power to create and to destroy.

    Nature abhors a vacuum. – Spinoza.

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  44. glenda says

    I was thinking that when our olivia broke into the lab and got in the tank after and arrived in the gift shop she was trying to get out of the gift shop and go to find someone to help her. When waternet come into the lab and pulled her out of the tank, she was shocked she was leaving so fast so she had to tell the lady to call peter and get his help to bring here back. My friend has a different theory she thinks that olivia went thier but knew olivia couldnt stay thier long so she gave the lady a message to give peter. I am not saying she is wrong though. Any thoughts ?

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  45. Jenn Hoff says

    I’m sure that no one will ever read this considering I’m watching the episode two months after it airs, but I have a couple of things to say regarding the episode/review.
    First of all, I thought it was a bit of a stretch that our guys figured out the number stations in one day when there were all these dedicated nuts working on it for years who already had that book. Just sayin.’ Made me laugh.
    Secondly, I know that Peter and Walter are taking quite a hit for not figuring out who Altlivia is. But when you are that close and you trust someone, you take it for granted that they’re telling you the truth. I always used to pity those silly women whose husbands would cheat on them and they had no idea. Well, after several years of marriage I found out that my husband hadn’t been faithful. Looking back, of COURSE I can see the signs, but when you’re in the midst of it, in the day-to-day? When they’re looking at you and have a reason for their behavior, you believe it. You just take it for granted that they’re being honest. This isn’t a rant against cheating men or anything, I’m just trying to point out that it is actually incredibly realistic that Peter wouldn’t question it. He NOTICED it, even pointed it out, but he doesn’t question it. He will, of course, be kicking himself in the future for all of the signs. But it will take a while for him to piece it together, and that’s just how the real world works.
    Great review, BTW.

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    • Peanut says

      See, Jenn, people are reading.

      I agree with you on the implausibly rapid solution to the complex number station puzzle.

      I posted on the episode review for “Marionette,” 3.09, why I think that Peter & the rest of the gang should have known, or at least suspected, that it was not their Olivia based on Bolivia’s half-hearted efforts on their cases. One of the classic giveaways (besides forgetting the unforgettable Markham!): In “The Box,” 3.02, there is a typical crime scene exchange between Olivia & Peter that Bolivia would have been prepared for if she were really Over Here Olivia. “What are you thinking?” Peter asks her. She says “Nothin’. Just takin’ it in.” [LOL] At that point, Peter should have whipped out a thermometer & checked her temperature to see if she was sick. Olivia’s response would, at least, have been something like “Nothing, but give me 10 minutes.”

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