Fringe Opinion: Is Altlivia Now A Sympathetic Character?


As we continue to speculate over the baby’s name, I wonder, did the events in “Bloodline” do anything to make you more sympathetic towards Altlivia?

Feel free to add your vote in the poll after the jump.

Did "Bloodline" Make You More Sympathetic Towards Altlivia?

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If you need more room to explain your opinion, feel free to do so in the comments.

Comments

    • Piouipou says

      I don’t understand that king of reaction. Some people finds it surprising they don’t want a young mom to die just after she gave birth?

      I only find it lame that the writers use the sympathy most person feels towards babies and new mothers as some way to “humanize” her. I was hoping they’d made her appealing for herself. I still find her utterly too undeveloped to feels any kind of sympathy for her.

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  1. CreepyGroovy says

    Y’know, I really want to like her, and I can understand and even forgive most of what she did (or felt she had to do) while she was in the Blue universe, with the exception of shooting and murdering that poor deaf man in the back of the head. That’s my stumbling block, and I just can’t get over that. So, “Not Really” for me.

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    • cliff says

      yeah, exactly. she killed the deaf guy who thought he was helping authorities and didnt hear anything because he was DEAF. he would absolutely have posed no threat. i realize it was probably her instructions to do so, but i still saw no need for this heartless act. but i guess ill say somewhat to this poll.

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      • CreepyGroovy says

        Agreed! Those were her instructions, and she was fulfilling her mission (there was even a twinge of regret when she pulled the trigger!). But that’s neither her nor there – she did it anyway, even though she wasn’t happy about it. I’m confident OurOlivia would have found another way, and that’s the standard I compare AltOlivia against. Unfortunately, she comes up lacking. I love these moral dilemmas that the show throws out there!

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        • fringeobsessed says

          I totally agree with you.
          What drives me nuts was that the writers had our Liv say “She’s me only better,” which isn’t true! I have NEVER for even 1 minute thought of Alternate Olivia Dunham as just a better version of the Olivia Dunham we’ve grown to know. Nuh-uh.

          I really wanted to like the Alternate Olivia when she came on the scene, but the vagenda story arc really cheapened the character, imo, and I feel she will have to redeem herself in a big, big way.
          Can Alternate Olivia deliver?(pun not intended) We’ll see.

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      • becca says

        Without defending murdering people I *do* understand why she felt she had to do it for two reasons. On a horrible, practical level, the fact he was trying to help the authorities and knew that “Agent Dunham” was involved was deeply compromising to her cover. Sure he might have gone home and never mentioned anything, or the Fringe team proper might have found him in the course of their investigations, or he might have kept on trying to tell the police what happened. Just because he was deaf didn’t mean he didn’t have a LOT of damaging information

        But what tipped me over to being able to have a certain amount of sympathy for why Altlivia did what she did is that if she hadn’t, Newton would have. And possibly not as quickly or kindly. That dude was going to end up dead one way or another. It’s possible to interpret it in a number of ways, but personally I think I would have thought *far* less of Altlivia if she’d taken the easy way out and let Newton do it instead, or let him go, fooling herself into thinking it was a loose end Newton wouldn’t tie up for her. There was really no way that guy was going to get out of that situation alive, so I have a certain amount of…respect for Altlivia for facing that fact and taking responsibility for it, even though I understand why such an unappealing act would have lasting repercussions for some viewers regarding feeling any sympathy for her.

        Ultimately, I guess I just understand that she honestly, and completely believed, the survival of her *entire universe* depended on her completing her mission. Faced with that, could she have lived with herself if she *hadn’t* killed him, and had therefore failed?

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    • Peanut says

      She & the shapeshifter Luke also killed an innocent woman at the NJ train station so that Luke could assume her identity.

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      • alexis says

        my vote also went for “not really”. i feel like she’s brought upon herself most of what’s hapenned to her (not the kidnapping). she went about her business in the blue universe quite foolishly, imo, and like you guys said she repitedly crossed a line she didn’t need to cross. and that applies to sleeping with peter too, getting pregnant and therefore inevitably loosing mcdreamy (frank, oh frank! ;)). and on top of all, she’s still the alter ego of our original heroine, so…..

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        • runpaceyrun says

          Im with you guys. When Alt-Liv (im still calling her that…dont like Fauxlivia) hit our screens i tried really hard not to judge her….but senseless killing is where i drew the line. And then came the manipulating……well i began to loathe her. I dont loathe her now….but i certainly dont feel anything for her. I love the ORIGINAL …… she’s the best! The original Fringe characters are who i am attached to…..and nothing will shift me from there!

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    • Laura says

      “Not really” for me,too. I can’t help myself, I try to undestand her, but I couldn’t. She could have helped a lot talking about the truth (the real situaion in the blue universe, Broyles’ murder, etc) but she didn’t. And now, TG, there are Lincoln and Charlie thinking about it.

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  2. Alex says

    She had my sympathy way back in 3×04 from the moment Newton pushed her to sleep with Peter under the pressure of defending her world.

    Yeah, i know she eventually fell for Peter to some extent, but their first time was only a few weeks in where we can assume she still had a real connection to Frank. Newton kept talking about how her hesitance to cross THAT line would eventually lead to her undoing and it got to a point where she thought Peter would get dangerously suspicious if she didn’t sleep with him.

    I know there was a lot of Altliv hate after 3×04 but i honestly felt bad for her. Does anyone else feel sorry for Altliv that she had to do that? I mean, she was just trying to save her universe and her family, but in the process she had to basically sell her body and betray a man she really loved for the cause. That has to be scary for anyone, right?

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    • CreepyGroovy says

      I’m with you – I do feel sorry for her! But again, I can’t get over the cold-blooded murder she committed. Having said that, however, I don’t hate her at all. I see her as much more morally ambiguous than Olivia (ends justify the means and all that), and that makes for a fascinating character.

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    • becca says

      Yeah, I did too. It’s a really horrible situation to be put in and I was actually pretty disappointed in the general reaction of the fandom being to hate on Altlivia for doing it instead of Newton for basically telling her if she didn’t whore herself out she’d be responsible for the *end of her entire world*.

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      • AnTo says

        I agree, Fauxlivia is a soldier living in world that will be destroyed by the enemey, the blue world, This is what she is hearing since she was a child.

        The illness she has, where her sister died off, is a result of that.
        Decaying of the fabric, less life.
        She works in a division that has to deal with more death then our side.

        She was used by Walternate from the start, never has been told the truth. Walternate is the evil one, with Brandonate as his assistent.
        Look at the spies in wars, shewas the same.

        Lincoln Lee thinks the same of the blue world as Fauxlivia.

        The writers must have thought the viewers were more clever.
        Read a book, from writers who grew up in closed off countries.
        In a way I see the Red universe modelled on what used to be Eastern Germany.

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        • Piouipou says

          “living in world that will be destroyed by the enemey, the blue world, This is what she is hearing since she was a child.”

          Well I don’t know if you’re clever or not. But that’s not true. No one on the red verse was told their all life that the blue one is destroying theirs. If you recall the episodes Over There, that’s at that moment of the story Altlivia and others heard for the first time about over here.

          Sure she hasn’t been told the truth but she should I’ve been intelligent enough to see during her time in the blue verse that no one is at war. They all try to find an another way. That’s exactly was she’s been told by Peter.

          AltBroyles believed in Olivia and had faith in her without getting any proofs of what she told him. Altlivia spent two months within our Fringe Division and she couldn’t change her mind? She comes back and she don’t tell her “friends”?
          Lucky enough for the other side she get pregnant or over Altlivia would have keep leaving her little life enjoying back rub and avocados, not giving a shit about the so-called “war” we should think she believed in.

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          • becca says

            But she did spend her whole life growing up in a world that was visibly [i]dying[/i] in brutal, horrible ways. Sure she didn’t know why – but suddenly she was told why. Told by someone she trusted that she could do something about the utter devastation being wrought on her whole planet, and more than that, that those responsible were hostile.

            I agree that her time Over Here has shown her that the devastation was accidental and that we aren’t hostile. But that doesn’t change the fact that it was Our Side’s fault and that Her Side is now dying and the only way she can see to fix that is to complete her mission. It’s brutal, and it’s nice to believe that there’s a magical third option, and I hope there will be. I also think there’s evidence that Altlivia has been considering these questions, and her conversation with Peter as they’re digging up the machine, as well as her clear continuing interest in researching Peter’s history once she returns home, is an indication of that.

            But it’s far easier for Our Side to believe in that nice, happy third option because we haven’t reached a desperate point where reality is collapsing around us and causing death on a devastating scale. It’s not like Olivia or Peter have any actual plans to stabilise both worlds beyond “hope”. So while I find their attitude of being unwilling to make that choice commendable, I can’t judge someone with a more practical outlook for trying to save their world. If it turns out there is no third way, what then?

            As to not telling her friends about her classified mission, well, she’s a soldier. It was classified. It might not be personally appealing to you, but it’s a realistic and I’d argue moral, response to the situation. If you join the service, and you get security clearance, you don’t just break that any time you feel like it because your friend is asking.

            Finally you mention that Broyles eventually sided with Olivia. But he never would have at the start of the season, and probably not if Olivia hadn’t demonstrated her quality as a human being by saving his son, even knowing what it would likely cost her. Altlivia hasn’t been put in a situation like that yet. She’s had the opportunity to witness, as Broyles did, that her views of the Other Side aren’t accurate. But she hasn’t yet been put into a situation where she needs to put that into practice. She’s only been in situations where she’s been trying to save herself and get herself back home again. Let’s wait and see what happens during the next Olivias-confrontation, or next time she has to make a decision about the Other Side.

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          • becca says

            Urgh – forgot to add! On the issue of trust and friendship, Altlivia is hardly alone in lying. Broyles and Olivia have a professional friendship yet he’s lied to her throughout the entire series about things that are above her paygrade – like the fact they DO have lists of Cortexikids for instance. On a personal level, Olivia lied to Peter about his origins. Peter lied to Olivia about his involvement in the shapeshifter killings. Altlivia lying to her colleagues because she’s under orders not to tell them is probably the BEST justification any of these people have.

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            • real1 says

              “”Olivia lied to Peter about his origins.”"

              Olivia didn’t lied , Olivia didn’t SAY to him about his origin because Walter did beg her to not say because he want to do it . ut’s not her call , it’s Walter’s call .

              “”Peter lied to Olivia about his involvement in the shapeshifter killings.”"

              Peter didn’t lie on this .. he conned and deceived Olivia , he lied when he said that he is at gem and will take a shower . he lied when he was acting as angle about what Fauxlivia did write about him while he knows what she did write .

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              • becca says

                On your first point, then how do we know that Altlivia lied directly to Lincoln and Scarlie? I doubt they specifically asked her either, it was a lie of ommission that the poster I was responding to seemed to find distasteful and it was a lie of ommission that Olivia engaged in by not telling Peter where he was from. Especially when he told her he thought Walter was acting odd because he was trying to work up the courage to tell him that his mother committed suicide, or assuming that Olivia was acting weird around him because they almost kissed, and Olivia allows him to continue to believe that when she knows it’s not true.

                A similar argument can be raised against your second point, but even so, I think you’re really splitting hairs to argue what part of his shapeshifter-killing escapade he lied about. He lied about knowing what was in the diary specifically to cover for the fact he was the culprit in the killings. They aren’t separate things.

                Either way I don’t see how it affects the point I was trying to make – that Altlivia’s behaviour in not telling her friends about her mission is hardly the worst or least sympathetic example of lying on this show.

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                • real1 says

                  The lie : is to tell someone something is not exist , or answer a question with no where around the truth .

                  As how Fauxlivia is lying that she went to the bar and got pregnant from X man , she lied

                  Olivia didn’t lie , Peter was noticing that there is something wrong but she didn’t say any thing , Peter was doing the math for what’s bothering her and she didn’t say any thing , when he said if that from the the almost kiss and he don’t want to risk their unite family she said to him i don’t want either .

                  So she didn’t lie to him or letting him confused about their unite family , and when he asked her in s2 finale since when she knew she said to him few weeks , so she was honest and answered the question without any lie .

                  On the other hand when every one asked Fauxlivia who’s the father she LIED and did give them a X man not exist .

                  As for Peter , Olivia asked him where he is and he LIED that he is in gem while he was in his privet lab .

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                  • becca says

                    I don’t understand your obsession with defining the exact parameters of honesty. It doesn’t seem to have anything to do with the original context in which it was raised. Another poster claimed the Altlivia should have told Lincoln and Charlie the truth about her mission even though it was classified. We do not know whether she directly lied or simply engaged in a lie of omission by passively allowing them to believe something she knew wasn’t true. In either case, there have been worse examples of this with less justification by other characters on the show and it hasn’t been used as a reason to label them as unsympathetic.

                    I’m also not sure why you’re arguing so passionately over a semantic point which doesn’t seem to have anything to do with the original point of debate (which certainly for me, at least, was a less important point – an aside I forgot at the time but thought was interesting in terms of the doublestandard I feel we sometimes place on Altlivia). We were talking about whether Altlivia should have disclosed her whereabouts to her partners, not the exact parameters of a lie or a lie-by-omission and whether there is any difference between them.

                    I’m really not sure what else I can say as I have absolutely no interest in working out where a character was actively lying and where they were passively allowing someone to believe something they knew to be untrue. The kind of lie, or “omission” if that word makes you feel better, really is utterly tangential to the point I was aiming for.

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                    • real1 says

                      I don’t know what you mean by the word obsession ?

                      “”It doesn’t seem to have anything to do with the original context in which it was raised. “”

                      You were talking about leis and gave examples:

                      “”On a personal level, Olivia lied to Peter about his origins. Peter lied to Olivia about his involvement in the shapeshifter killings. Altlivia lying to her colleagues because she’s under orders not to tell them is probably the BEST justification any of these people have.”"”

                      So I replayed to you . you seem to have some issues with meaning of the words , am full to share ideas and talking about this lovely show , you said Lied and i said it’s not .. where the problem ?

                      I didn’t bring your argument to something else , you said something and i did reply to it , but i think you didn’t like what am saying and that’s fine with me , as long as you are not attacking or saying no meaning to me .

                      And , am ok with any word you want to write and how you would like to express your feelings , it’s not bothering me what you are saying .. am just responding , so why you take it so far ?

                      it doesn’t matter .

                      as for fauxlivia , she simply can say it’s not of any one’s business i don’t want to say who’s the father is . then i can say she didn’t lie to any one . but she did .
                      and I can give you a right example when Olivia did lie ! .. in the “Pilot” she said to Peter that she had his file while in fact she didn’t . ;) .. but when he asked her again she said to him that there isn’t .. she said that to force him to come back .

                      See .. that’s a fact :)

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                    • says

                      “On the other hand when every one asked Fauxlivia who’s the father she LIED and did give them a X man not exist.”

                      Are you suggesting that Altlivia should have fessed up and tell her mother that the sperm donor is from the Blue Universe ? Mama Dunham would have thought for sure that Altlivia is looney tunes, don’t you think.

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                    • real1 says

                      Betty :

                      I didn’t suggest that ^^^ , you can read my post for what i suggest .

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  3. number six says

    Not really. I think it’s kind of lazy, that they’re trying to make her sympathetic through a baby or an ill-timed declaration of love, instead of giving her some depth. A glimpse that her life over here had some effect on her, like questioning Walternate’s motives, would have been much preferable in my eyes. She’s still a disappointing character.

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    • roneo says

      I agree with you. Writers have told us she is still in love with Peter. Ok. But we don’t know if she regrets what she did over-here, if she feels ashamed o proud about all the above mentioned (cheating, killing,…), if after living with the enemy, she still thinks they are as devilish as Walternate has made evebody believe.
      I hate what she did, although I would like to know that she regrets (or fully assumes) her actions to really forgive o despise her.

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      • g33k says

        I think they show and inkling of her guilt in bloodline in the scene where her mother is driving her in the car and she tells her “You met a guy in the bar, that doesn’t sound like you” and she replies “It wasn’t one of my finest moments.” I think the subtext is that she is actually feeling a bit of guilt over her time over there and realizing the damage she’s done. She just can’t verbalize it to anybody.

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        • roneo says

          Yes, I also felt that was what writers were trying to tell us. But it’s still not enough for me.
          Otherwise, I also have the feeling (or the hope, at least) that we’ll see more of her inner thoughts as Walternate’s lies gets found out and the universes crash approaches.

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      • number six says

        I didn’t get the feeling, that she’s in love with Peter, quite the opposite. To me it looked like she had forgotten about him completely. A few weeks ago, she seemed to have feelings for him. Talk about shallow!

        I haven’t read anything recent from the writers saying she cares for Peter. What interview is that?

        Anyway, my point is, she seems to fall in and out of love very easily and I wouldn’t be surprised if she jumped into a relationship with Lincoln right away.

        They could have given her one more dimension by making her question Walternate’s motives, even if briefly, or by showing, that Peter’s words of hope got to her. But none of this happened, she just gave birth, therefore, she remains one-dimensional and a core to watch.

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  4. Page 48 says

    She shot an unarmed Walter, an unarmed Deaf Guy, and aided in the killing of an unarmed woman in a public washroom. So, she should see her day in court at the very least. However, this was the first time we’ve seen her portrayed in a sympathetic light.

    I will say that, personally she appears to be a sympathetic character. Professionally, she’s more like a ruthless killing machine, an off-the-leash, teetotalling Dunhamnator.

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  5. fedorafadares says

    I gave her a Not Really.

    Yup, her mission was complex and its aftermath upended her life, but her attitude is what galls me: Cavalier. Careless. Smarmy (to our Olivia). Arrogant.

    Sorry, motherhood doesn’t instantly make someone a sympathetic person.

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    • Pierce says

      This is where I’m at with the character, too. I think the lack of development, or real insight to her feelings about her mission or the aftermath of it leaves me feeling quite indifferent towards Altlivia.

      The accelerated pregnancy upon the worry that she was a carrier of VPE (or whatever it is) should have resonated had we actually seen her interact with this sides Rachel and Elle. Perhaps the fact that Frank dumped her and that she was carrying a child to a man in another universe, along with lying to everyone around her about the origin of her fathers child should make me sympathetic towards her, but like someone upthread mentioned, it comes across as something that you feel she had to expect. She infiltrated another world and willingly played a part in the potential destruction of it. On top of that, she has to realize she made a complete mess of Olivia’s life by impersonating her in every aspect including sleeping with her man. Total violation.

      I have yet to see there’s been one ounce of regret, shame or concern on how thoroughly she tainted Olivia’s life, or Peter’s for that matter. Sure, she may have come to care for him, but like she told him when her cover was blown, it would be foolish to think she wouldn’t carry out her mission, which is exactly what she did. Not while she was on our side, and certainly not since she’s returned.

      Maybe I’m expecting too much too soon, but it seems like there would be a moment where she’s begun to question if what she did was right? Hopefully, that moment or moments are still to come. However, until then, I have to say no, I don’t feel any sympathy for her character…or there lack of.

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  6. Ari says

    I think I would have really liked her if the story hadn’t taken the turn it did. I think she’s interesting, and multilayered (of course she is – she’s Olivia Dunham!). I don’t agree with everything she’s done, but that’s okay in my book. I mean it’s war (or she thinks/thought it is) and what’s war without some moral ambiguity? I even don’t mind that she slept with Peter – that stuff with Newton was manipulative and fabulous (it reminds me of the scene where Olivia met Newton for the first time “now I know how weak you are”). What I dislike is the continued implication that there was some sort of romance between her and Peter, as opposed to a manipulative, destructive, stockholm syndrome-esque relationship. I’m not saying that she never felt anything for him, particularly towards the end, but to portray it as romantic to create some kind of love triangle is, in my opinion, in poor taste and below the level that Fringe has attained in other areas of storytelling. Now, instead of looking forward to episodes with her in it, I’m just cringing in anticipation of more asinine star crossed lovers nonsense. “It wasn’t part of the mission. While she was on the other side Olivia and my son got close.” Gross.

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    • AriC says

      From one Ari to another; AGREE AGREE AGREE. Perfectly articulated. I totally don’t get the “regret” from her from killing those people or cheating on Frank as others seem to. I also don’t get the sense that everyone overthere “knows they are at war”. As far as people overthere know, they have environmental decay, not everyone lives in high alert state from those people from the blue universe. I feel like for Altlivia, it was all about the ego drive PERSONAL achievement of completing the mission, of showing that she is tough, which is why newton’s manipulations worked so well. he challenged her ego, she took the bait. It is a romantic story afterall, of Altlivia being in love with herself, and how cool she is (strut-strut). I really want to see the multi-layers, but for someone who sacrificed so much of what should be her personal integrity for the mission, i dont see regret for the people she killed, for taking olivias man, for cheating on frank, for lying about it, for trying to still marry frank, and most of all, i dont see she came back to the red universe saying “hey guys, they are NOT trying to kill us!! they are just like us!! theres gotta be a better way”- that i have a problem with. because it shold have been obvious to her that there is no conspiracy or intention to destroy her universe. It totally takes her back to two dimensional for me. she may be talented, but not deep.

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      • LeLo says

        Agree also with this post. Also to remark, she and our Olivia are nothing alike. Our Olivia wouldn’t do that, she would questioned and doubted about this whole situations before doing it. But writers throw this “feelings” between Peter and Bolivia, and now I want conclusion, more understandings of this. In this whole picture, I most pity Peter. He is manipulated, abused and nobody is here for him, nor Walter, nor Olivia nor his mother.

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        • fall says

          nor the viewers :D

          I never ever saw somebody feel sorry for peter , strange because after a long time of him waiting a “yes” from olivia it was actually from altrivia and he lived that dream and wanted nobody to wake him from it, I almost pity him at those times when he was extremly happy thinking he didn’t live his mother and home for nothing.
          perhaps we need more peter screentime , this is so unfair for a character like him.

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      • Ari says

        It is about ego and accomplishment with her. As opposed to our Olivia who does it out of emotion. I think the biggest demonstration of that is the fact that Altlivia has an olympic medal in shooting. For her shooting is about fun, control, and achievement. For Olivia, shooting is about being a frightened 9 year old having to come to terms with issues of survival and the thin moral line. It could never be a hobby. Altlivia is an adrenaline junkie for fun. Olivia is an adrenaline junkie so she can move between worlds.

        And all of this would be fine – GREAT even, if it didn’t get bogged down in the moronic love triangle. Not the love story, because I’m fine with that, but the triangle, oh my god so annoying. As you said, she sacrificed so much of her control when she took on that mission. In fact, the pregnancy works really well in showing that (SIDE NOTE: how the hell did she get pregnant? They NEED to address this. A) she’s a control freak – she sure didn’t ‘forget’ that sex can equal baby B) she knew she had a likely chance for VPE meaning she had extra incentive to be on top of birth control). I’m just hoping that this is a slow burn issue and that the writers will eventually address the emotional ramifications (aside from love) of her mission.

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  7. Zakray says

    When the episode ended I thought “wow, do I actually care about Fauxlivia?”
    But after several days reflection I realize I don’t care about her at all it was Lincoln I was sympathizing with not her.

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  8. says

    I have to admit, when I saw her “die” in Lincoln Lee’s arms I said, “No!” And I’m the one who’s labeled her a war criminal. I think part of my reaction was due to seeing Lee in so much despair. So I checked off, “Somewhat” in the above poll. Still her acts were unforgivable and I for one would have her stand trail for her crimes.
    I do think we are being manipulated by the writers also. I don’t have a big problem with that. It is just a TV show right? I understand their motivations.

    (BTW, there has been some excellent feedback to this post.)

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  9. real1 says

    Not at all ! , as i much would like to .. but i can’t .. am with the others who said about her killing to the innocent man and to add , she took every thing from Olivia , if Fauxlivia will be any good , first she should see what she had done to Olivia the version of her to see how she did ruin her life and put her in danger .

    And for Fauxlivia’s life , she wasn’t loyal to Frank , to develop any feelings for Peter it’s not a good thing for her ,

    I was surprised that Peter did say to her if she did any thing to Olivia then he will kill her …… my question for Peter : she stole her life and while she is undercover Olivia was in danger .. isn’t that sufficient to kill her yet ? and to add now she brought a baby from him … isn’t all of that sufficient ???

    Am not Sympathetic toward her not a second till i see how she will react to Olivia and what she will do in the future .. and it will not bothering me if she didn’t do any thing … i just want her far away from Peter , and i want Peter to threaten her even more .

    Die or live Fauxlivia i don’t care ! ( even i know how critic this character for the show but cuz she did bring a baby i think her role is done .. kill her as soon as possible .. if not .. S4 will be her date of death ! .

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  10. Ann says

    She never had my understanding and she neer will have. In the beginning I thought it was possible she’d have my sympathy at some point, but they took the story down a ridiculous and lame path. Fringe is NOT a soap opera, and giving her a baby to make everyone feel sorry for her is cheesy and lazy. They never addressed any of the things she did. They never showed her feeling guilty or regretting any of what she did. They never showed her rethinking what Walternate was doing/telling her to do, even when she came back and saw that Over Here wasn’t the monster Walternate was making it to be.

    Instead they gave her a baby, a 3 second almost death (which, by the way, I did cheer. I did think ‘FINALLY THANK YOU’ only to be incredibly disappointed when she came back), and a cheesy love declaration. Voila. There you have the fans, who are just as easy manipulated as Altlivia, into feeling sorry for the character and liking her.

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  11. T says

    I know I am in the minority but I have always like Altlivia. In fact, since she came on the seen she has been one – if not my favorite character. That being said I think this episode did a great job of humanizing her. She facinates me the way few characters do and I can’t wait to find out what is ahead for her.

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    • says

      I also have a soft spot for Altlivia, but it was bordering on a love-hate relationship because of her actions. I am just wondering what everyone thinks about the high regard that Charlie and Lincoln have for Altlivia. There is a special bond, a comradery, affection, and yes, even attraction between the 3 of them.

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  12. anzetse maloba says

    Till I Am Shown How She Suffers At Discovering How Somebody Else Lived Her Life And Nobody Noticed Like What Happened To Olivia, I Am Sorry But Baby Or Not Fakey Has No Sympathy From Me. Instead I Always Feel Everything Is Still Rosy For Her

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  13. Solis says

    the worst : she applied walternate plans like a programmed robot like a shapeshifter , never questionned why .
    she destroyed Olivia/peter relationship
    killed/helped killing many innocent people
    why would I sympathize with her ?
    some little problems and essues :
    she broke up with Frank?? but was she convinced to marry him at all, she has feelings for Peter, I bet It was the best thing that happend to her .
    she’ll never have a baby ; but guess what ? she had a miracle and gave birth to a sweet baby boy .
    I hope she comes back and sees happy olivia with happy peter. and if she does cooperate with olivia to save peter from walternate or his fate , it would be the least she does, because she has to after the dammage she caused without even understanding why.

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  14. real1 says

    First , am hooking with Fringe because it’s a fringe of the reality ! , am watching the story line , 3 mains character with 3 supporter character ( Olivia ,Walter, Peter ,, Broyles , Astrid , Nina ) 3 guests character ( Lee , Brandon , Bell ) and only one fringi character = AltCharlie !.

    The show is talking about 2 worlds .. 2 different type of each other , it looks like the same but it’s not the same because the choices is not the same .

    2 and half seasons of Fringe is talking about those and I understand that only one universe will survive , the red universe is more preparing than the blue one for this war …… Now the blue is knowing about the machine and how it reacted to Peter they didn’t even think to take Peter’s DNA without exposing him to the machine ? and to add .. instead to concentrate on that .. the blue just reacting to what ever the event will bring ? really ?

    On the other hand the red universe is knowing that the war is coming because it’s from natural and to win it they should have Peter back to their universe , I am really surprising that Walternat doesn’t want to use the children for the trial ! don’t get me wrong but wait a minute there is a war of worlds people will die there isn’t any solution to repair it .. why not to use the children ?? I think Walternat is not concerning about this .. why ? because what the children will do by crossing over if the war will come from the natural ?

    That’s what Altbrandon is missing , AltBrandon is thinking now how to cross over and do the trial while Walternat want his son back and for him why to torture the children ? even if that mean crossing over .. he can send safely the shapeshifter ?

    We have to concentrate and ask again :) … how to link all the episodes together , from the start .. when S3 did start and after ep4 .. I was sure that Fauxlivia will be pregnant , and I said it long time ago , the worst isn’t her baby .. the worst for me that Peter didn’t realize Fauxlivia from Olivia , the worst that with ep11 they let us see how Olivia was questioning herself .. that Fauxlivia is better than her and she was her so both are the same !!! here the big deal .. because Fauxlivia isn’t Olivia and Olivia isn’t Fauxlivia .. both are different no matter what the circumstances … in ep9 Olivia was right : she wasn’t me how you could not see that . I for one could not delete ep9 and what Olivia’s reacting to the bitter truth that no one did miss her and they let an impostor taking her position her life without a trace ! .

    Even the evolution ( yes am saying evolution !! ) of ep16 ( 6B) how they let Olivia doing the first move toward Peter … am not so sure from Peter yet and am not sure how Olivia was ok about : I’ve seen the 2 of us together looks like and it’s beautiful !! … i thought that Olivia will hold her gun on Peter !! but because they let us seen that Olivia is coming to see that Fauxlivia is just as her and as how she is thinking so for now it’s no matter for : she wasn’t me ????? that’s bothering me !! ( am just telling you my opinion and how i did take the episodes ) , Olivia is right Fauxlivia isn’t her , Olivia can not has 2 men in her life at the same time .. that’s was Rachelle who can has 2 men at the same time and that’s what Olivia did say to her sister : how you can date 2 men in the same time , Olivia will not use her gun on a civilian person , Olivia did a deal with her enemy … Newton .. she did agree to let him go and he will say to her how to save Walter , on the other hand Fauxlivia could not do that .. Fauxlivia is selfish .. Olivia is selfless … how on earth i can sympathize with her ?

    I can understand Walternat and AltBrandon But Fauxlivia ??? no way for me .. she is there to tear the things up .. and what she will add in the future ??
    She already did take Olivia’s life .. slept with Peter and delivered a baby .. so what next for her ???

    Yeah the next is to torture us about which one Peter will choose ??? and here we will get a weak character ! which is Peter .. who is not knowing whom he love more .. or whom the best in sex with him ???

    See … , on others board one of the poster was thinking that am bashing Peter’s character .. Actually am not , am just not liking what they did to Peter’s character .. that’s he is a lost man and can’t decide his choice or what the better choice he can do …. and the worst .. the fate of the worlds on his hand … i don’t like to see him going to field and flying jumping .. yelling FBI !! he is not a agent .. he is a civilian consultant working for the FBI ..and yet he did deceive all the FBI including Olivia for his petavagenda just to let him going back toward Olivia because he couldn’t break the codes ???????

    I don’t know what to add more ! I think i did write a long post :) .. sorry if there is incorrect grammar .

    :)

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      • Peanut says

        I thought that maybe you’d like to change your screen name from real1 to something like “DieFauxliviaDie” or “FauxliviaMustDie”?

        To me, the most soap opera-ish the series has been is rewriting Fauxlivia’s character to try to manipulate the viewers to see her as a sympathetic character (Aw, how can we not feel sorry for the new mom who almost died? Just call me hard-hearted, in that case).

        Others have articulated (thank you) that Faux has yet to show any remorse for her previous actions while she was impersonating Over Here Olivia. Maybe if Faux joins with Linc & Scarlie against Walternate, I’ll revisit my sentiments, but right now I’m still not feeling the love for Faux. I’d like her so much better if she would go out in a blaze of glory, bravely dying to save the universes (heh).

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        • Peanut says

          And then we could enjoy Roco’s eloquent eulogy, “RIP Altlivia,” all over again, for “real” this time.

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          • real1 says

            “”we could enjoy Roco’s eloquent eulogy, “RIP Altlivia,” all over again, for “real” this time.”"

            haha ! .. am really really out of love with her , am just standing her because Anna Torv is acting her no more ! , she and Walternat can do a great team with Brandon , am not teaming her with Altlincoo and AltCharli !

            No matter what .. i think they did take her character so far , so to redeem her now for what ? the damage is done , she is just there now because Peter will choose her I guess ….. and am saying it from now .. that i will be the bitter nb 1 of Peter ! and if so … then i may change my screen name from real1 to bitter1 .. but i will sign with real1 .

            I love my screen name to point that i will never change it no matter what .. even when peter is choosing fauxlivia .. I will wish that he will suffer and be tortured and die with Fauxlivia and their child !! then all the worlds will live in peace , and for Olivia .. she used to be betrayed and she can hold on to herself and continue to defend innocents people and can take care of Walter too , Peter who will lose every thing not Olivia .

            And Fauxlivia … no no no no no I can’t stand her .. she would make perfect couple with Peter .. both are killing shapeshifter and looking less of them .. both can conning people and faking stories .. both are not knowing what to do in their life …. Olivia deserves better than Peter if that will happen .. but after Peter I don’t think that Olivia will look to any other man or to enter in any relation .. her fate will be a gatekeeper living for the others .

            :)

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            • Fine says

              “And Fauxlivia … no no no no no I can’t stand her .. she would make perfect couple with Peter .. both are killing shapeshifter and looking less of them .. both can conning people and faking stories .. both are not knowing what to do in their life …. Olivia deserves better than Peter if that will happen .. but after Peter I don’t think that Olivia will look to any other man or to enter in any relation .. her fate will be a gatekeeper living for the others .”

              sorry but I don’t think you understand peter’s character . at least he’s nothing like altrivia

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                • Fine says

                  and yet they’re nothing alike , two people belong to the same place has nothing to do with how similar are their personalities, peter’s character is deep, complex, smart….yes! we did not see much of him this season,(most of it happend off screen) but if you try and see it otherwise you’ll find out many wonderful things about this character. BUT Altrivia !! Agrrrrrrr

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                  • real1 says

                    For me .. to now .. am not so sure from Peter , he did a lot alot alot alot of mistakes , and you are right 2 from the same side doesn’t mean the same as 2 versions for the same one doesn’t mean the same , and the one who’s in love with someone could not change his/her feelings to another one , but all of that will not change the fact that Peter is from Fauxlivia’s world , that’s he didn’t see which one with him , that he has feelings for Fauxlivia and so on , Peter’s character is a conning one you can’t be determined what he will do or what’s his move , but that it doesn’t mean he is wonderful ! ..cuz in my book he is not ….. not yet !

                    :)

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                    • Fine says

                      Ok , I never said he’s wonderful , nobody is wonderful in fringe, which I like ! but he’s real, like an ordinary person, I’m just saying it’s not about origines It’s about goodness in each character , yes he conned people but he was able to change .

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  15. says

    What fans of Fringe should realize that EVERY character has its own reason for their action. There is no BLACK and WHITE. Everything is grey. It’s a matter of looking at the story of Fringe in their PERSPECTIVE, one has to fill in their shoes to UNDERSTAND their character.

    Even so called “villain” themselves got their own purpose and motive for their actions… whether you think it’s right or right, that doesn’t matter. For the character, that’s what they think they should fight for… what they believe in… and what they think is right.

    Having said that, I pretty much understand the other Olivia ever since day 1 when we see her over there.

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    • Anne from France says

      I didn’t know how to say that, well I guess you did it for me ;)
      I’ve also liked Altlivia from the beginning. Even if I don’t like everything she did of course, I like her as an interesting character. I see her as a whole character, not a pale copy of our Olivia.
      Do you really think the story would have been as interesting if Altlivia hadn’t been a danger (in some way) for our Olivia’s life and for our universe?
      I know that it can be difficult to like her when we care so much for our amazing Olivia, but we have to see her in the light of her universe not in our blue-universe perspective.

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    • Ann says

      I understand Walternate’s reason, I understand Olivia’s reason. I understand Walter’s reason, I understand Peter’s reason, so on and so forth. Altlivia? Nope. They haven’t bothered in showing her any depth, they haven’t bothered to build a story around her. Instead they gave her a baby and let the public do the work. Lazy writing and easy people.

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      • says

        How can it be a lazy writing?

        Remember that our main character is built upon by our secondary or external characters.

        Adding AltLivia into the equation draws complication in the life of Olivia and Peter… which adds complication on to her relationship with Frank.

        And further complicates her life with a baby.

        We see the contrast between Olivia and AltLivia. We see how much transformation AltLivia had from the beginning to what’s right now. Her cortexiphan-free life now became a complicated life. Life is now can be comparable to Olivia.

        Lazy writing? No.

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    • parakalo says

      And what fans of Fringe should also realize is that just because you ‘understand’ a character’s reasons and look at things from the character’s ‘perspective’ doesn’t mean you have to sympathize with the characters.

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      • says

        Certainly.

        But to go to that direction is to cross first the boundary of understanding the character’s perspective.

        And a lot of fans categorize every character as “good” and “bad” of which is NOT what Fringe is all about.

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  16. garden says

    Bloodline is just an example of lazy writing. They used an easy and cheesy way to make Bolivia more human. I’m sorry but I expected more from Fringe and his writers.

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  17. lane says

    Yes, I really started to care about her during the bloodline episode but then I remembered that poor deaf guy… She is an interesting character, but definitely not a good person.

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    • says

      I’ll give you a gun.

      And I’ll tell you to go as undercover in an enemies’ camp, and I also tell you that your role is dependent on survival of all humans.

      Now, you retrieve the piece that you want to get from the camp… from a man who knows who you are.

      Spare a life and risk killing all humans?

      Remember she is a soldier. Not a charity worker.

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  18. Dessy says

    don’t think she’ll ever have my understanding
    I try and try and try, but I just truly can’t stand her.
    because of the whole Peter deal,
    because of the fact that she doesn’t seem to realize the effect of all she does on Olivia’s life,
    because Lincoln is in love with her (I love Lincoln!),
    because she killed that poor deaf guy (“I’m sorry” ? seriously?),
    because she seems to rationalize all the crap she does to ‘doing whatever it takes to save my world’

    Occasionally I get glimpses of her humanity, but ……….ehn. It’s not good enough for me. Maybe one day I’ll start to warm to her a bit. Like the day she dies. haha

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    • says

      Perhaps because she see her life as a carefree and no complication, simple – yes or no, this and that?

      And now perhaps she is reaping all the consequences?

      It’s all in her face now: Walternate’s evil plan. Baby complication. Frank leaving her. Lincoln saying to her face.

      Olivia on the other hand is different. She does understand because she gone through all the complications in life.

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  19. giorgio - Greece says

    I could never see Over There Olivia as an unsympathetic character although I didn’t particularly like the things that she did. Let’s not forget that though she may not be our Olivia, she is Olivia just as much.

    Are we saying she’s a bad person just for trying to protect all that she loves?
    What would any of us do were we to find out that there’s another universe much like our own, populated but versions of ourselves and that our world is actually falling apart, well, because of them.

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    • real1 says

      Which mean Walternat is same her , he did suffer more than her and he is now just wanting to save his world even if that means to sacrifice his son .
      *ehem*.

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    • Piouipou says

      I guess it depends if you believe whether it’s the birth of someone you make them who they are or if that’s their actions and decisions.

      Are we supposed to like every versions of Olivia Dunham? And then do we really like them for who they are or for what’s they represent for us?

      I don’t like Olivia, because she’s a blond agent who can fire a gun. I didn’t instantly care about her the first time we were introduced. I come to understand and appreciate her little by little.
      And I was waiting for the show to take the time to make us like Altlivia as much Olivia. Instead I get the feeling the writers expected we’d transferred our love for Olivia by placing her in the same almost same position than Olivia (Fringe Division, woking with Charlie and Broyles). And for those who was still unconvinced they add the baby!plot because making her a mom surely will attract sympathy.

      Most of people who doesn’t like her are not saying she’s a bad person, but she remains a character undeveloped and thus it’s hard to understand her motivations behind her bad behavior.

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      • says

        Yes, she is undeveloped.

        What do you expect?

        Olivia is on our screen for the past what… 3 seasons?

        When does AltLivia appear? Does it even add up to 10 episodes?

        The point here is the writers are not expecting you to care about the character at this point. It’s all about your timing and how you accept the character.

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  20. Lauren says

    i almost began to like her! …and then Lincoln said “i love you” and she didnt say it back! grrrrr

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  21. sean says

    so most of the people who aren’t sympathetic, aren’t because she hasn’t shown sufficient remorse since returning to her world. We’ve only had 2 “over There” episodes since her return and in one she was strapped to a bed (probably not the best time for an “I’m sorry”), and in the other her mission was still classified and she had no one to confide feelings of remorse to. Now that Lincoln and Charlie know, I’m sure we’ll get her thoughts on her time over here, and I can’t imagine she won’t feel some guilt. I, personally, always sympathized with her

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    • Page 48 says

      “Now that Lincoln and Charlie know, I’m sure we’ll get her thoughts on her time over here, and I can’t imagine she won’t feel some guilt.”

      I agree. I believe that Altlivia’s story is far from over. With Lincoln and Charlienate now slowly shaking off the effects of Walternate’s Kool-Aid, the sh*t is going to hit the fan eventually and Altlivia must play a critical role in the events about to unfold.

      It’s one thing to kill off Alt-Broyles. He lived long enough to see the light thanks to Olivia and, since “Fringe” has never been about Broyles, he was expendable. He died a brutal death, but a noble one.

      I don’t believe that Altlivia will be, or should be, killed off before she’s offered a shot at redemption. Aside from the fact that Anna Torv is too valuable to the show, Altliv’s story has been too one-sided so far, and I think she’ll have the opportunity to repair some of the damage she has done this season. Anything less than that would be disappointing, and certainly killing her off as retaliation for being a big meany to Peter would be bush league and beneath the storytelling capabilities of Bad Robot.

      I think (and hope) that Altliv is here till the bitter end. What she does with that time remains to be seen.

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    • Ann says

      If there were only 2 episodes then why waste it in a ridiculous pregnancy? Both episodes were about that: developing one of the most cliche and RIDICULOUS storylines ever. They should have bothered in peeling the layers of Altlivia, giving her depth instead of giving her a baby and making cheesy scenes to have the public feel sorry for her. I can be in the end this child will be the only reason she will fight, which will be even more ridiculous.

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        • Ann says

          And I guess you have nothing better to say. I wonder why you even commented. So what if I’m a parent or not? I’m not saying a baby doesn’t change someone, because it does, BUT THEY HAVEN’T BOTHERED TO DEVELOP ALTLIVIA.

          Giving her a baby make it all ok? Gives her depth? I don’t think so. They still haven’t showed any remorse, they havent even addressed the storyline. It feels like Altlivia beeing there was just an excuse to have this child happen, which is even more ridiculous.

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          • says

            ” BUT THEY HAVEN’T BOTHERED TO DEVELOP ALTLIVIA.”

            The lack of character developement is due to the narrative of the story. The viewer has had 3 seasons of Olivia, and we have indeed become very attached to her. In retrospect, it has happened with almost all the characters on Fringe. A lot of people are saying how much they just love AltLincoln, or hate AltBrandon. Sides are being taken. I just do not think that we have grasped the full dimension of the 2 universes, and the unforseen consequences or importance that are to come because of the birth of Altlivia’s baby.

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            • Ann says

              For a character that was supposed to be so big, she revolves around a child. Again, no remorse shown, no guilt, nothing. They had a million ways to have the baby story come to life, they chose the cheapest and laziest one. They worried mroe about the child than developing Altlivia.

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              • says

                I guess the accelerated pregnancy going against the laws of nature is in your opinion cheap and lazy writing, but I give the writers kudos for making such a bold move and daring to go there.

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      • Piouipou says

        Exactly. We could find excuse for the writers saying they didn’t have time to develop her as a real, deep character what with not knowing if there’d will be a season 4.
        But we can’t even do that. Because they chose the pregnancy story. And instead of making us like her for what she is, now we should appreciate her because she has a baby.

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      • says

        Then you should have stop watching Fringe on the second episode.

        It’s bound to happen. I already saw it happening before season 2 even ends.

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  22. Ann_Louise says

    I voted “somewhat”. But I agree with upthread posts who noted Fauxlivia has not (in my opinion) shown any real development since coming home. She still gets to “win” – albeit after a nightmare pregnancy, she gets to survive an almost certain death sentence.
    When I see Altlivia show the development I saw in Ben Linus on LOST, then I’ll revise my opinion of her character. If Ben – the King of Liars and Manipulators – can come to know himself and begin to try atoning for what he’s done, then it’s possible for anyone. Even Miss Smarmy Smirk.

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  23. Bischof says

    I really don’t feel any sympathy towards Altlivia. This episode didn’t change that. Watching her suffer couldn’t simply erase all the mischief she has caused thus far.

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    • Ben says

      Oh, now it’s working. My computer dumped all its cookies, so I had to bake a new one for this site.

      Anyway, I voted somewhat. She’s still privy to Walternate’s plan to destroy our universe. True, some on “our” side like Nina seem okay with the red universe taking a dirt nap if it means we survive. But Peter, Ourlivia, and in his best moments Walter seem to be more about “finding a better way.”

      Altlivia is probably capable of change and growth, though, so I wouldn’t be too surprised if she became more sympathetic as the series wears on.

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  24. mlj102 says

    Do I feel sympathy for Altlivia? That’s a tough question. I will say that I feel more sympathy for her now than I did at the beginning of the season, so I guess that’s something. That said, the sympathy that’s there is still barely enough to register on my sympathy scale. There hasn’t been enough development in her character to justify why I should sympathize for her.

    Let’s recap, shall we? Altlivia came over here, infiltrated the Fringe team while pretending to be Olivia, lied to everyone she came in contact with, prevented the Fringe team from succeeding in their efforts against Newton and his shapeshifters, killed innocent people, manipulated everyone, stole vital pieces of the machine, slept with Peter, and effectively destroyed everything good in Olivia’s life. And I should feel sympathy for her, why?

    Sure, she has suffered a bit since returning over there. Her life was lived in while she was away. She broke up with her boyfriend. She found out she was pregnant. She was abducted and nearly died giving birth. But really if you think about it, all of those things are nothing more than consequences from her own actions. She chose to cheat on her boyfriend. Her actions led to her pregnancy, when she knew full well the possibility that she could be at risk of being a carrier. She’s simply living the consequences of her actions. And while I do sympathize for what she has to go through, she asked for it by making the choices that she made.

    The whole argument that she really had no choice and that she was only doing what was necessary to defend her world only goes so far for me. While I can understand how the safety of her world and her feelings of obligation to protect her world is certainly a strong motivating force, and a good reason for doing “whatever it takes”, it still doesn’t justify what she has done in the name of defending her side.

    For one, from the time she spent over here, she KNOWS that over here is NOT trying to destroy over there. She KNOWS that the people over here are simply trying to protect their own world. She KNOWS that the few people over here who are even aware of over there, are trying to avoid damaging over there. She learned firsthand that what Walternate said about the people over here was completely false. From her experiences over here, she should have realized that no one over here is attacking over there. And that knowledge greatly diminishes the argument that she had to do what she did to protect her side from the evil monsters who are out to destroy them. The threat is not what it appears to be, thus her actions were out of line.

    Secondly, even without the knowledge she gained from her time over here, there are other options. She didn’t have to compromise her values. She didn’t have to sell herself. She didn’t have to stoop as low as murder and adultery. She could have found another way. Olivia would have.

    In fact, Olivia has had to make similarly difficult decisions in the past. In Bad Dreams, she had Nick Lane actually request for her to kill him in order to prevent further deaths. She would have been perfectly justified for granting his request. But she couldn’t bring herself to do it. And she found another way. Altlivia, on the other hand, killed a man in cold blood with nothing more than an apology that he couldn’t even hear. If she had been in Olivia’s place in Bad Dreams, I imagine she would have resorted to giving Nick what he asked for and killing him. And I believe that if Olivia had been in Altlivia’s position, she would have found another way. No way she would have killed him like that.

    (On a side note, it has been argued that Altlivia’s actions in killing the man weren’t that bad, since Newton would have killed him anyway. That’s not the point. It doesn’t matter if he would have died anyway. She didn’t have to be the one to pull the trigger. She could have refused, argued that it was unnecessary, tried to protect the man. But instead she gave in to Newton’s pressure and killed the man. She did nothing to try and stop it, so the guilt and the responsibility is all hers).

    Just like Altlivia, Olivia has also been given the huge responsibility of protecting her side. And she’s doing that. But she’s also doing everything she can to protect the other side at the same time. She was a prisoner over there, and was subjected to some pretty terrible treatment. She has a pretty good reason to be bitter and not have very positive feelings for the other side. But she acknowledges that the majority of the people over there are good, innocent people and she’s committed to doing everything in her power to saving them. In contrast, Altlivia was treated to a perfectly lovely life while over here, complete with people who loved her and took care of her. Yet she’s still working against the people over here and is willing to kill anyone who gets in her way. She doesn’t care if those people who cared for her, who she supposedly developed feelings for, are all destroyed. That’s just not right.

    Altlivia is in a unique position where she could be making a difference in shifting the perspective of the people over there. She is a lead member of Fringe Division and a person of influence. She could confide in Lincoln and Charlie and others. She could tell them what she knows and convince them to help her work against Walternate and try to work with over here instead of working to destroy over here. She could cause them to completely rebel and change their approach. She could make a difference. But she hasn’t even tried. She has simply returned home and is content to follow Walternate’s orders as he leads them in a war to destroy over here. That suggests that she has no attachment to anyone over here and that she has no concern for what happens to them. As long as her side survives. It’s a very narrow-minded attitude that is in sharp contrast to the attitudes of Olivia and Peter and the others over here. It doesn’t make me feel any sympathy for her.

    We haven’t seen any sign of guilt, remorse, or concern from her in what she has done or what she is doing. We haven’t seen her struggle against the choices she felt she was forced to make. We never saw her consider that there might be other alternatives. Sure, there were little hints here and there, but nothing at all equivalent to match the magnitude of the things she has done. And I suppose part of that is to be blamed on the writers for not depicting those emotions. It might be more of a case of not showing that it’s there rather than that those emotions just don’t exist. But they have had opportunity throughout this season, and by not showing her emotions and her reactions to these moments, she is depicted as a bit heartless.

    So, to summarize, yes, it was nice to see a bit more of a softer, more vulnerable side to her as she was abducted, faced with death, gave birth, and became a mother. But they have a lot to make up for and they’re going to have to do a lot better than that for me to come close to sympathizing for her in the same way I do for other characters. I don’t think she is a bad, evil character. She is a generally good, honorable person who was put in a really tough situation. But that does not mean I like her, sympathize for her, or support her choices. The things she has done say a lot about her character, and I don’t like what it says.

    (Now, how many people actually read all of that? If I had authorization to award points, I would give a cortexi-point to anyone who actually reads this whole comment!)

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    • real1 says

      Well said , am seeing her as how am seeing Walternat and AltBrandon , no difference for me , all of them want to save their universe , the blue one it doesn’t matter for them , i can’t like her …. the war isn’t from the red or the blue .. the war is from the natural because what blue Walter did ( stealing red Peter opening a hole between the universes ) and guess who is paying his action ? it’s Olivia .

      Fauxlivia has a light life .. full life .. she was undercover why to bother if any one didn’t know she was missing ? Walternat took Frank out of the picture .. her mother was back and thought that her daughter is suffering from a trauma and she isn’t herself again … Walternat was assuring that his plan will not break from his people .. but Olivia is one who did break all what they were planning by knowing herself again without helping from any one .

      Fauxlivia and Walternate are the same in my opinion , i can justify what Walternat did .. but I can’t see the light for Fauxlivia and i will add Peter to them if he is going to choose her by the name of still has feelings for her !

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    • Pierce says

      I’ll take that cortexi-point now. :-)

      You expressed my exact feelings about Altlivia and her actions. Like you and others have mentioned, I feel what’s happening to her now are the consequences of her actions. She had ample opportunities to make different choices, but time and again, she compromised her ethics and morals to aid in a war she had to realize during her time over here was being propogated by one individual….Walternate.

      What I find interesting to consider now that Lincoln and Charlie are beginning to piece together that Secretary Bishop hasn’t exactly been that truthful with them, and that he had a hand in Broyles death, they may because just as suspicious of Altlivia’s action as they are of his. Especially if she doesn’t begin to wise up about Walternate herself, or start to rethink her compliance with his plans. Dramatically, it could be an interesting direction for the writers to take if instead of having the support she clearly benefits from in Charlie and Lincoln as well as her mother, out of misguided loyalty, she finds herself at odds with all of them, because Walternate continues to convince her that what he’s doing is for the best.

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      • mlj102 says

        As far as I’m concerned, the Cortexi-point is yours! If you took the time to read that giant comment, then you earned it! Though Roco might have something to say regarding whether it’s legitimate or not…

        “Dramatically, it could be an interesting direction for the writers to take if… out of misguided loyalty, she finds herself at odds with all of them, because Walternate continues to convince her that what he’s doing is for the best.”

        Interesting idea. I hadn’t even considered that. I suppose it’s possible (anything is possible with this show, particularly where Altlivia is concerned) though not likely. Walternate may have earned her professional loyalty, but that’s all he has. Alternate Charlie and Lincoln, on the other hand, have worked side by side with her and have earned her friendship and, dare I say, unconditional loyalty. If they were to confide in her with their suspicions against Walternate and were to pursue the matter, I think she would support them. I can’t see her in active opposition to their efforts to improve things. I think she would listen to them and would help them.

        Plus, there’s also the fact that she now has a son. A son who Walternate is invested in. A son who Walternate has plans for. Alternate Olivia is a lot of things, but I don’t see her as the kind of person who would agree to letting Walternate use him for whatever purpose. Being a mother could bring out a whole new side of Alternate Olivia.

        Of course, Walternate can be extremely manipulative and convincing. If anyone could cause a conflict in her loyalties, it would be him. There are so many ways they could run with this whole story, I’m excited to see where it ultimately ends up taking us.

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  25. says

    I was with her from the very start.

    This person, at the very core, is Olivia Dunham. She has the same goodness in her. So did bad things. Who hasn’t in this show? The writers gave us more than enough layers of her. Show what she may have been like, when the first Olivia thought she was her. Sorry for switching allegiances, I felt cheated when Olivia went back to her obvious self. There’s enough flaws in the character to make a redemption believable and her journey worth watching.

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  26. Gillian says

    When she told our Olivia she was nothing like her she was right, she isn’t and never will be.

    She is still getting off lightly compared to what our Olivia has been through when I see her make a sacrifice that doesn’t serve her own interest then I will start to warming up to her.

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  27. Super_Evie says

    I actually think it will the be the decisions that Altlivia makes from this point forward that will either make her sympathetic or not for me. Also, in a recent interview where the writers said it would come full circle at the end of this season – I wonder if our Olivia will be put in the same situation Over There that Altliv had Over Here. It would be very interesting to see her decisions in that scenario. I tend to think our Olivia would make more morally-responsible decisions, BUT I do think Newton got to her with the “now I know how weak you are” line, so hmm….

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  28. GoodPeter says

    “Bloodline” made me care more about Lincoln, but not Alt-Liv/Fauxlivia. Now that Lincoln and Scarlie know about the other universe and that they’ve been lied to, I hope that they take Alt-Livia to task. She still has some explaining to do. But they probably won’t, because she’s now a mom.

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  29. Toonsy says

    I’ve always been neutral toward the alter characters and that hasn’t changed although some of them can be pretty likeable but yeah the whole point is that that was how the writers wanted us to feel.

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  30. Hayley says

    Wow, this has caused a LOT of argument – controversial article!
    My two cents would be this – I voted “Definitely”, not because I’ve forgiven Fauxlivia for the brutal murders she committed Over Here, and not because of baby Oliver (that’s what I voted for LOL), but because her kidnapping reminded me of Olivia’s way back in Season 1. She didn’t know what was going on, why these people wanted her, what they were doing to her, and yet she still showed determination and resolve in finding a way to escape. I found myself rooting for her, which I wasn’t expecting, but by the end, seeing her happy and content with Oliver in her arms, I realised I cared for her.
    Yes she was brutal in Blueverse, and yes she did some atrocious stuff, but most of it was before she found out that people Over Here aren’t all intent on the destruction of Redverse, as she had been led to believe. The murder of the woman in the bathroom came afterwards, admittedly, but that was when she was under pressure and trying to find a way to get home.
    To be honest, I think my sympathies towards her softened when we realised she actually fell for Peter (I mean, who wouldn’t?). Although I’d rather see him with Our Olivia, Fauxliv (as Olivia said) is like Olivia Mark II – she wasn’t beaten as a child or experimented on in a lab, and that has made her a more rounded person, less afraid to let people in. So she was good for Peter, and they did work well together, which made me soften towards her slightly.

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  31. Hayley says

    On a side note, the writers are very good at making our sympathies for people ebb and flow. Take both Walter and Walternate as examples. With Walter, he seems like a lovable old Grandpa-type, harmless and innocent, until you find out he experimented on children. And as for Walternate, my sympathies for him this season have been back and forth literally every episode! First I felt sorry for him for losing his son, then I saw what he wanted to use Peter for and I hated him, then we find out he refuses to experiment on children which makes him a better man than Our Walter, then he kidnaps Fauxlivia which is bad but we find out he did it because he wanted to save his grandson which is good! Back and forth back and forth, it makes my head spin!
    Which, to put it back on topic, basically means that I’m sure our sympathies will shift again several times before the season ends.

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