Fringe Observations: 2.22 Over There – Part 2


Welcome to Fringe Observations Weekly: the comprehensive Fringe Clues and Eastereggs Round-up for episode 22 of season 2 – “Over There – Part 2”.

Below the jump we dig deep into the mythology, make connections and attempt to unlock the secrets of Fringe, as we explore the various clues and eastereggs from the episode.

Dead Red

Another hint as to the significance of the color red:

Peter: “What’s the red?”

Walternate: “It’s the quarantined areas”

I’ve offered a heap of speculation on the possible significance of red in previous Observations (including last week), so I wont go over old ground here. But I do want to throw out another possible connection – could the red on the alternate universe (AU) title sequence simply point to the Other Side being under quarantine? Could this relate the their current struggles with anomalies, or perhaps foreshadow their future isolation and/or destruction? It’s a simple idea but I think it’s worth throwing into the mix.

It was also interesting to see Altlivia wearing red throughout much of the episode, then to have Olivia switch into red. We’ve long speculated that red is Olivia’s lucky color – an idea that was given more fuel when Sam Weiss essentially advised Olivia that the color red will help her find resolution (“Dream Logic”). I think this might be worth mentioning because of the growing significance of Sam (more on this later) and his possible connection to the alternate universe (marked by red).

Science Fiction

Altlivia wakes up to Science Fiction/Double Feature, the opening song from the Rocky Horror Show.

Here are the lyrics:

Michael Rennie was ill the day the earth stood still
But he told us where we stand
And Flash Gordon was there in silver underwear
Claude Raines was the invisible man
Then something went wrong for Fay Wray and King Kong
They got caught in a celluloid jam
Then at a deadly pace it came from outer space
And this is how the message ran:

Science Fiction – Double Feature
Dr. X will build a creature
See androids fighting Brad and Janet
Ann Francis stars in Forbidden Planet
Oh-oh at the late night, double feature, picture show.

I knew Leo G. Carroll was over a barrel
When Tarantula took to the hills
And I really got hot when I saw Janet Scott
Fight a Triffid that spits poison and kills
Dana Andrews said prunes gave him the runes
And passing them used lots of skills
But when worlds collide, said George Pal to his bride
I’m gonna give you some terrible thrills, like a:

Science Fiction – Double Feature
Dr. X will build a creature
See androids fighting Brad and Janet
Ann Francis stars in Forbidden Planet
Oh-oh at the late night, double feature, picture show.
I wanna go, oh-oh, to the late night double feature picture show.
By RKO, oh-oh, at the late night double feature picture show.
In the back row at the late night double feature picture show.

What’s interesting to me is that she wakes up to this song – she wakes up to Science Fiction (Double feature). Given the amount of references to dreams, consciousness, and the like, I think this could be something to consider. As well as being a cute reference.

I also found symmetry in the fact that Broylnate wakes Altlivia up and tells her that she can’t go back to sleep. This mirrors Broyles, at the end of the Pilot, when he tells Olivia that she can’t go back to before.

Observing The Observer

The Observer just loves the Colonelnate’s special recipe.

Comic Con

Walternate leaves 5 comics for Peter – each of them slightly different from the versions found on Our Side. “Crisis On Infinite Earths” (an apt reference) shows Superwoman holding a lifeless Superman – on our side the roles are reversed. The Death of Superman was a memorable story on our side – on the Other Side it was Batman who died. Instead of The Dark Knight, it is The Man of Steel who returned in Frank Millernate’s AU story. Jonah Hex joined the AU Justice League (Jonah’s scar may also be a reference to Nick Lane or Charlnate who both have scars). And finally, perhaps the most visual difference is that the Green Lantern and Green Arrow are the Red Lantern and Red Arrow. Again, the AU have a tendency to go red.

  • Aside: Are there any superpower references in any of these comics that might foreshadow the abilities of the Cortexiphan Kids?

I’ve merged the comic covers from Over Here with the Alternate Universe comic covers for easy comparison (AU scans on the right courtesy of DC Comics) – click to enlarge:

Crisis On Infinite Earths:

The Death Of Superman / The Death Of Batman:

Green Lantern Co-Starring Green Arrow / Red Lantern Co-Starring Red Arrow:

Batman: The Dark Knight Returns / Superman: The Man Of Steel Returns

Justice League International (Green Lantern / Jonah Hex):

TransAmericanate

On Our Side the Transamerica building is in San Francisco. Over There it’s located in New York, presumably because the AU‘s California is missing a sizable chunk.

Blighted

Evidence of The Blight affecting quarantined Boston, confirming that some areas are more heavily affected than others. This also corroborates what Newton told Walter about the ‘trees and the grass dying long ago’ back in “Grey Matters” – he was just being very specific in relation to Boston.

As Walter looks out at the devastation, his culpability is literally reflected – becoming one with The Blight, reinforcing the fact that he too is undergoing his own personal Blight.

An image that very much reminds me of this promo poster from Season 1.

Stasis

Boston quarantine. Some areas have been solidified with amber to encase the anomaly. The ‘petrifyed’ victims are still visible through the amber, which is a callback to early season 1:

In the “Ghost Network”, Matthew Ziegler attacked a bus full of commuters, solidifying them in amber. Walter had this to say when he saw the devastation:

“It’s horrible. They’re like mosquitoes trapped in amber”

At the time I noted the parallels with Jurassic Park.

It’s interesting to consider the idea of the Other Side are using technologies for containment that Pattern Groups on Our Side are using for destruction. This may not be the case across the board, but I think there’s an interesting connection to be made there – illustrating that science is essentially neutral with humans using it for ‘good’ (if you will) and ‘evil’ intent.

A Weiss Man Once Said

The anagram on Walternate’s chalkboard reads:

A DEMON’S TWIST RUSTS

This scrambles to reveal a secret message:

DON’T TRUST SAM WEISS

This is interesting to me for several reasons:

1. I’m going to once again raise the question of the Fringe narrator, because in many ways clues like this really do add another dimension to that question. This clue is directly for us, the audience (although it may also be a subliminal clue for Walter). With the narrator question in mind, it further makes me wonder whether the narrator is trying to communicate with us on another level, or whether there’s a second narrator who is offering us another – perhaps more reliable/helpful – perspective on the story. Again, I think it depends on how deeply you want to read into the it.

2. The idea that we shouldn’t trust Sam Weiss also brings into question his role in Olivia’s rehab. He’s been very helpful to her, but should we once again question his motives? And since Nina referred Olivia to Sam, perhaps her motives must also be brought into the spotlight? I’m also wondering whether Sam is another one of these ‘constructs’. Earlier in the season I questioned whether Sam and his bowling ally where even real – whether he was Olivia’s “Mr. Fantasy”. In saying that I always like to come back with the idea that reality is subjective, so this would make Sam ‘real’ as long as Olivia can perceive him.

3. The clue is located in the alternate universe. Does this have any relevance? Is Sam from Over There? Why was the clue written on Walternate’s chalkboard – is that a connection we should take into consideration?

Bellie Of The Beast

William Bell admits that he created the shape-shifters for Walternate. This would explain the Massive Dynamic logo on Newton’s watch back in “Grey Matters” (left). Although Bellie also confirms that he didn’t open Massive Dynamic on the Other Side, suggesting that the writers changed their minds at some point over the shape-shifters specific connection to Massive Dynamic. A possible (contrived) explanation to make it all fit, would be that Bellie put Massive Dynamic logos on their gear because he was longing for home – a hat-tip to his empire on the Other Side, if you will. (As Walter would agree, he likes to put his signature on the things he creates).

That still doesn’t explain why Bellie didn’t give Olivia more instructions on how to handle them. She had to find the head-shot thing out for herself. Thanks, Bell.

Obsolete

Some nice symmetry with the scene between Charlnate and Olivia (right) echoing the one between Charlie and Olivia from the Pilot (left).

Charlnate (2.22 Over There – Pt 2): “This job isn’t what it was ten years ago. We’ve got Alternate Universes. It just wasn’t part of my training, y’know. I mean how are we supposed to fight these people. Truth is Livvy, this makes me feel obsolete, y’ know”

Charlie (1.01 Pilot): “Job isn’t what it was ten years ago. We’re supposed to protect the world, where one breath of the wrong air can incinerate you from the inside out. I mean, how do we protect people, when corporations have higher security clearances than we do? When we’re not fully briefed on half the things that we’re investigating. You know, when the truth, the truth is – we’re obsolete.”

Charlie’s quote has always been one of my favorites and probably always will. I remember at the time saying how it really set the tone for the show, serving as a voice piece for the idea that technology and science were superseding humanity, and that power lies in the hands of the few. Hearing Charlnate say almost exactly the same thing was very poignant. It’s also interesting to hear Charlnate express concern at having to fight us.

The two scenes are also fascinating to me because they both feature OUR Olivia. This makes me wonder about the inherent nature of the universe, and whether in some sense the connection between the two worlds is created by the act of observing it. Think about it this way – would Charlnate have said those words to Altlivia, or did something compel him to say these words to Olivia because his Double had said to Olivia in the other universe? Words that perhaps Olivia needed to hear. It just seems a bit too convenient that Charlnate would echo his Double’s words in the small window of time that Olivia was on the Other Side, if not for some intrinsic reason. Of course many events that have happened in our world, have happened on the Other Side – that’s a fact. But this one seemed so personal and so well timed that I have to once again suggest that the act of Observation creates reality. And on a larger level, does the AU exist because we broke through, because Walter needed to find a cure, because of whatever origins story the show will no doubt provide us with? Is one universe predated on the other? Just something to consider.

  • I should also mention that the two scenes carry symmetry even up to the point of Olivia’s very next move, which is to plead with Peter to come back home (mirroring her pleading him to stay in the Pilot). Prior to that, she had almost killed her Double (mirroring her part in the ‘death’ John Scott). Once again we have cyclical and slightly slanted version of events.

On The Glow

(May 29th, 2010 – Looking through some of my screencaps and this one caught my eye so I thought I’d add it here):

Altlivia standing beside a Scotch Whisky poster. Could be a wink to Olivia’s partiality to liquor, but the words “Bask In The Warm Glow” make me all a-glimmer with excitement. Will someone see Altliv glow, will this blow her cover?

Stage Hand

Hand Glyph. (almost forgot to add this one, thanks eveybane for the reminder).

Live Long And Prosper

As William Bell sacrifices himself to send his friends back home, he raises his hand to activate the Doorstop device. To my mind this is clearly a nod to Leonard Nimoy’s days as Spock and the Vulcan Salute (right). A fitting way to end his acting career, and once again we have symmetry with Bell (in this guise at least) bidding farewell.

Communication Station III

Update: Image corrected – thanks mlj for heads-up.

More symmetry with Altlivia (left) going to the antique typewriter shop (an Over There outpost) and requesting a Selectric-251 to receive orders from Walternate, mirroring Shape-Shifter #1/Evil Charlie (right) from earlier in the season.

I enjoyed watching Typewriter Guy’s reaction upon realizing that Altivia was “one of them” – as I’ve mentioned before, he seems to have sold out for the Other Side in return for something (note his: “I’m not waiting around forever” comment from 2.01), but he always seems perturbed by what he’s facilitating. I do wonder what he has been promised though? If it’s salvation, would Walternate really make sure that he makes it across to the AU before he destroys our world (assuming that’s what Walternate wants to do)? Or does Typewriter Guy have other motives? Perhaps he’s from the Other Side? Either way, it was good to see him again.

  • A quick note on the typewriter and “magic mirror” – I would imagine that this method of communication is adopted because it is difficult to be intercepted – unlike digital communications – especially since it doesn’t exist on Our Side.

Slanted

The good old slanted lights return once again to maintain continuity. In previous weeks I’ve speculated that the slanted lights denote shape-shifter activity and/or energy from those who have recently travelled between universes. So far this has held up pretty well. The slanted lights in the above capture continue the energy angle. Not only has Olivia recently travelled to the alternate universe – a trip which generated huge amounts of energy, most of which provided by Olivia, but she is terrified. Remember that fear (energy) is one of the established ways to unlock a Cortexikid’s abilities (we’ve especially seen this with Olivia on several occasions, including the VHS footage of her younger self post pyrokinesis incident). So I would imagine that the creators have put this lighting effect in for either of those two reasons. Unless Walternate is a shape-shifter. Kidding.

Deconstructing Olive

Here we see Olivia in her fetal position as Walternate observes her with contempt from the window. This is definitely a callback to the powerful imagery from the VHS footage of young Olive in the same protective position as Walter’s kind voice tells her not to be scared. Notice the difference in the Walternate’s attitude.

It’s a nice parallel because of the symmetry involved. Looking a bit closely this also gives us insight into where Olivia is mentally at this time and how it connects with what she was feeling as a child. Walternate has her trapped and she instinctively (innately) adopts her inner child, almost primal, defence mechanism – an unconscious connection to how she was feeling after the fire incident as a child. The ability to self protect. This contextualizes Olivia begging Walternate to let her out – we’ve never seen her so deconstructed before, never like this.

I thought this one image was a very clever way to add context in both directions of our linear perspective of Olivia’s journey. Walternate better not look through that window too many times, or he might go the way of Harris. ;)

OTHER CLUES

  • The nurse asks a patient whether the bees were “bigger than a grapefruit?”. They must have some pretty massive bees in the AU! Over Here, the largest bee is the Megachile Pluto. Nowhere near as big.
  • 47 reference: “I’ve got her, her show me just passed and auto-scan checkpoint at sector 4-7″.
  • The glyphs for “Over There – Part 2″ spelled WEISS, as in Sam Weiss, as in the ‘don’t trust Sam Weiss’ clue.

As always, if you have any comments on the above article, or you feel that we’ve missed anything out, feel free to share your thoughts in the comments. You can also find all of our Season 2 Fringe Observations here.

Comments

  1. Anjali says

    Watching Olivia curled up in that position again, looking frightened just tugs at my heart.

    I feel so bad for her. :(

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  2. andrewsauer says

    When I watched the original airing I thought that photo on Walternate’s desk next to the Obama picture was of Jimmy Carter, but now looking at it close up it looks like an aged JFK. So are we to believe MLK and JFK both made it out of the 1960s alive?

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    • Vos says

      I don’t think it means Martin Luther King, Jr. made it out alive, just that they made him more of a martyr. But you never know!

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  3. eveybane says

    There was also a hand glyph on the piano bench when it shows Peter and Walter setting up the “doorstop.”

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  4. mlj102 says

    You got the Observations up a lot sooner than I expected. That was a nice surprise! Before I make my own comment here, I wanted to quickly point out a couple of mistakes I noticed.

    First off, with the chalkboard anagram, you have written that it says “Demon’s Twist Rusts”, but it’s really “A Demon’s Twist Rusts” — without the “A” you can’t get “Sam”.

    Also, in your comparison of the typewriter scene from this episode and previous episodes, for the most part you have the scenes of alternate Olivia’s scene on the left, but for the first picture of the typewriter store guy, you have the alternate Olivia one on the right side.

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    • yis says

      I think that the easter egg was that Sam Weiss is the Typewriter guy, cause he is older than he seems to Olivia.

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  5. MikeMike says

    I said all along that I didn’t think that Sam Weiss was a good guy. At very least I thought he was a Massive Dynamic pawn.

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  6. Ari says

    Question regarding Pter+Walter crossing back with Altivia in tow.. are we supposed to assume that Walter’s “wedge” plus Bellie’s assistance was enough for all 3 of them to cross? Whatever happenned to Olivia’s abilities being necessary?

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    • yis says

      I think they didn’t need Olivia because the CRACK was already there from the first crossover. Similar to the lake point where Walter first enter the AU and after anyone with the right equipment could crossover because there was a crack there.

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  7. Jai says

    Did Walternate sort of refer to the cracks in the AU as a “Pattern”? I wonder if all of the “pattern” events on our side are also due in part or in whole to AU people or AU things coming through onto our side…

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    • mlj102 says

      One thing that stood out to me was that Walternate explained that when the two universes first interacted when Walter crossed over, it caused soft spots on our side while the other side was essentially faced with full cracks and holes because the laws of physics were affected. I’ve wondered for awhile now if the soft spots on our side correspond with holes on the other side. The map in Walternate’s office showing the incident areas really is rather similar to the map Olivia put together of all the pattern events on our side…

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      • Jodie says

        Yes, I think that they do correspond with each other. More important are the soft spots on our side going to grow into the rifts in our universe as they did on the other side? Did soft spots first appear unnoticed on the other side only to grow more unpredictable? I think that the theory that technology is causing these problems is correct. Since we were told in the first episode in season 2 that these pattern events go back to the fifties, these soft spots could have been developing over there for some time without anyone aware of them.

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  8. Con says

    Now that you mention it, Broyles waking Altlivia reminds me of the scene from 1.02, when he calls Olivia in the middle of the night with a case. The difference being that Olivia was already awake, restlessly going over John’s files, while in Altlivia’s case she was sleeping peacefully with her boyfriend. Just another interesting difference between the two of them.

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    • mlj102 says

      I really like that connection with Same Old Story, and comparing Olivia in that scene to alternate Olivia in this episode when Broyles really did wake her up. Thanks for pointing that out!

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  9. Stefan says

    WEISS is also a German word (actually it’s written weiß in Germany and Austria, only in Switzerland weiss – but there’s no ß in the glyphs and they are pretty much interchangeable anyway, so I’ll go with it) – it means “white”. And as all these colors keep poping up so constantly I noticed something: In Green Lantern color now stand for emotions (the corps are emotion-based).
    So this is what they mean in Green Lantern: Green: Willpower, Yellow: Fear, Red: Rage, Orange: Greed, Blue: Hope, Indigo: Compassion, Violet: Love, and then there are two new ones Black for Death and White which is not yet determined what it is – except of the opposite of Black…

    I think it’s astounding how well this works within the telling of Fringe as a indicator for what’s going on on the screen and inside the characters.

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    • rosull says

      To your point, I have mentioned before that they keep Astrid in shades of purple in nearly every episode. Using the Green Lantern Corp as a reference, we’ve got Indigo: Compassion; and Violet: Love. What could this be telling us about Astrid and what I hope will be an expansion of her part in Season 3.

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    • LizW65 says

      “Green: Willpower, Yellow: Fear, Red: Rage, Orange: Greed, Blue: Hope, Indigo: Compassion, Violet: Love”

      Yellow=fear: Little Olive is wearing yellow in the scene from the tape, just after she started a fire with her mind. Olivia dislikes the color yellow. Cortexiphan, which reacts on fear, may have been yellow.

      Blue=hope: the regular opening title sequence is in blue, and there’s a LOT of deep blue in the show. Symbol for Our Side? No matter how bad things get, people always retain a sense of hope. Olivia occasionally wears a light blue shirt.

      Red=rage: Alter-Olivia, and perhaps Walternate, are driven by rage?

      Green=willpower: Olivia wore a green dress on her first date with John Scott. Her intense willpower to save him led to the formation of the Fringe team.

      Indigo=compassion: Peter’s merchant navy pea jacket is this color. Also, Alter-Elizabeth wore a shirt of this color, a very deep blue, in recent scenes.

      Violet=love: as mentioned in another post, Astrid frequently wears this color.

      Can’t recall any instances of orange that jump out at me.

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      • Jodie says

        Peter use to wear blue all of the time in the first season, wore black and gray in second season, and then switched to blue again in NW Passage and when over there.

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  10. Michelle says

    After rewatching this episode, I can’t shake the feeling that we’re going to have a third world on our hands for season 3. When Olivia and Peter are in his room, he has a reflection in the glass table top and she doesn’t. Will we get to see a world with a Peter, but no Olivia and how different it would be, I wonder?

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    • kittyofdoom says

      I looked at some screencaps, and I definitely see Olivia’s reflection in the glass table when they’re in his room. You do mean the kiss scene, right?

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      • Michelle says

        You’re right– during the kiss itself, she has a reflection, but at the beginning of the scene Olivia’s reflection is hidden (intentionally?) by a lamp. Maybe I’m reading too much into it and they are just saying eventually Peter and Olivia will be reunited. What got me going on it was the “3 toned” hair color that she used to dye her hair to become Altlivia, the 3 colored paintings on the wall in Walternate’s office, 3 posters in the window at the Opera House. This show has me crazy looking for hidden meanings, I suppose. :)

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        • SF says

          Well then we are all a little crazy!!! lol Now that we know the colour red has to do with the AU, and the blue flashes and slanted lights mean travelling, I’ll be re-viewing both seasons to see where I can spot these now! lol and the colour yellow, since it is so significant for Olivia.

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  11. Ann_Louise says

    @andrewsaucer – in the season 1 finale, the newspaper in Bell’s office had a headline referring to a still-alive President Kennedy (along with the cover story on the Obamas moving into the “new” White House.

    My husband and I just found this site and love the attention to detail! Thank you for all the effort.

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  12. physicsgirl says

    Just had a thought…

    The quarantine area at the university was probably necessary because of Walter and Bellie’s car test.

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    • yis says

      I don’t think so, the car test was before Walter kidnapped Peter, and Walternate’s Lab was there too. I don’t know, I think that happened after the kidnapping.

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      • mlj102 says

        Actually, that’s not true. Walter specifically says that the experiment with the car was in 1986, which is after he crossed over and took Peter in 1985. I believe that whatever happened to cause them to quarantine that area happened around the time of The Road Not Taken (a year ago) since alternate Charlie told Olivia that half of Boston was in quarantine lockdown during one of her glimpses of the other side. So I imagine that happened around that same time and that’s what he was referring to.

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        • yis says

          But remember Walter is not reliable with his memory, I had thought that they did this experiments previous to Walter’s crossover, as a way of developing the technology that allowed that. Also there’s the fact that Altivia mentioned that Peter was kidnapped 20 years ago, not 25 years ago. But maybe you are both right, I just need clarification on this matter.

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          • physicsgirl says

            I was thinking that the experiment *eventually* caused the quarantine. If the holes/soft spots started popping up following Walter’s trip to the AU, then any subsequent tests (like the one with the car) might create tears that would need to be quarantined.

            Did anyone catch any dates associated with the quarantine events? It might gives us a clue as to when they started taking care of the tears.

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        • Gillian says

          Could the quarantine at Harvard relate to the incident in Walter’s lab when Carla Warren his lab assistant was killed.

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          • SF says

            I’m glad I’m not the only one worrying over and thinking about this one too. I’ve been wracking my brains thinking of what happened at the lab that could cause that explosion – but since Walter, and Walter and Bell’s lab, is the source of what is hurting both universes, I was thinking that something must have happened at the lab that triggered the explosion at Harvard. Good thought about Carla Warren and her accident. I was thinking, like mlj102, that something happened a year ago in our Boston that triggered the AU Harvard U to have the explosion. the closest I can come to is the fire twins Susan and Nancy and how they died together in AltBoston, presumably from bursting into flame. I’ve wondered, does this mean they spontaneously combusted, and if they did, were they experimented on with cortexiphan over there? Or was this a natural gift? If Boston’s division between worlds is really thin, did Susan Pratt set fire to not only herself, but her alternate self and her twin, because of the soft spot -that she accidentally shared her power in both worlds? Wouldn’t that crossing over cause the quarantine situation in Boston? I’m thinking she accidentally inserted herself into that world as her cortixiphan gift manifested, because it happened her altself was in the same spot over there. Like Olivia was able to insert herself. Just speculation!!!

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            • mlj102 says

              The thing with the Boston quarantine a year ago is that, from what Olivia saw during her brief glimpses of the other side, I get the impression that whatever caused the problems over there was completely separate from the incident surrounding Nancy and Susan. Alternate Charlie expresses annoyance that Olivia would be asking about “a pair of charred twins” when they had bigger problems to deal with — like half of Boston being in quarantined lockdown. Also, prior to that conversation, Olivia overheard alternate Charlie telling someone to put a “shoot-to-kill order out on the perps” which seems to suggest that there were some people over there who they thought were both dangerous and responsible for whatever happened to Boston. Maybe someone connected with Jones and ZFT? I do hope they will revisit that event at some point and give us additional information.

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  13. nieniqe says

    I absolutely loved loved loved the scene where Altlivia woke up to Science Fiction Double Feature, since I am a huge fan of this movie. Rocky, meaning the creature, was “man”made in this movie. And then I read your observation of how the AU might just exist because of our actions. Hmm…

    Cheers for your blog, love the insights!

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  14. Ann says

    At the return to the opera house, the movie theatre on the opposite side of the street lists on the right panel: Smokey and the Bandit: the Final Lap and Mask vs Joker. On the left panel: Superman vs Spiderman (2?) and Indiana Jones: the end of the… (world?).

    Also, i suppose a continuity error, there is a cafe adjacent to the entrance that advertises espresso.

    Since others have beaten me to the anagram of the chalk board, and I’m feeling somehow vexed about it, the poster advertising Riglionotti seems to have a spiral design to it. A web search for Riglionotti doesn’t yield any results.

    “Don’t trust Sam Weiss” is a pretty strong candidate for the NEC. But maybe “I ring to toil” is a second anagram.

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  15. Inter-dimensional Dave says

    My favorite science fiction movie of all time is “Forbidden Planet” as mentioned in the song, “Science Fiction/Double Feature.” In the movie a superior race of beings, the Krell, had created the ultimate machine controlled by thought to replace the labors of man and mechanical device. However, when the Krell slept the machine was controlled by their “monsters of the Id” and their “bad dreams” led to the annihilation of their entire race. Destroyed by their own hand! Many parallels apply to what we see in Fringe. Terrific stuff.

    Also, as I submitted to the Fringe podcast, JJ Abrams is purported to be a big Red Sox fan. Sam Weiss is, I think, is a play on the former Red Sox catcher “Sammy White” who owned a bowling alley in Brighton. Massachusetts. I really love the other baseball references we see in the show such as Walters Brooklyn Dodgers baseball cap. If only “Bellie” wore a NY Giants hat. Friends and rivals to the end.

    p.s (This is at least the second reference we’ve seen to “Forbidden Planet” this season.)

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    • SF says

      Thanks for this, Dave. I haven’t seen Forbidden Planet, so telling us the plot really enhances why it was chosen here. Creating with science, control by man and logic, but the creation gets out of hand, and the unconscious – dreams, sleep, monsters – rise up. A lot of Fringe connections, you are so right!! I’ve long thought that dreams were important on this show, from Walter lying to Peter and teaching him to ignore what his dreams were telling him (the truth), to how Olivia can’t sleep, and when she does, the unconscious does reach out to her – John Scott and his phone calls, echoing Peter and his in NWP, and the dreams with Nick in Bad Dreams, all the way to Broyles waking up both Olivias in an eerie parallel. “You can’t go back” he says to both. Does this mean, as others have speculated, that Alt-Liv is going to learn something that will change her? is there hope that what she learns is a wake-up call? I also think Dream Logic, even if it isn’t the best episode, does have some interesting themes about dreams and the power they have to control the dreamer and perhaps others.

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      • ApplesBananasRhinoceros says

        That is really interesting about Forbidden Planet!! Sometimes I do think we are all missing something huge and that dreams and someone or something is controlling characters’ dreams and actions in this world or the other in Fringe. Or somebody’s dreams are controlling the actions in one of the worlds. Maybe the ‘other’ world is the dreamscape and the tears in the fabric are really the dream world and the real world colliding. In Brown Betty it was almost spelled out for us, but not knowing anything more it’s hard to tell. I hope they run with this next season!!!

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        • Inter-dimensional Dave says

          ABR, great thoughts and much appreciated! I urge you to see Forbidden Planet also. See my reply to SF.

          Your theme of one persons actions effecting their doubles fate is quite compelling. It may be true in a dreamscape or “real” life. Roco and I explored how the experimentation on young Peter may have effected the Peter in the AU. Keep up the good thoughts!

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      • Inter-dimensional Dave says

        Thanks for your cogent reply SF I liked it better than my original post. Some of your points could actually apply to the final season of Lost but I really don’t want to go there! As far as Alt-Liv is concerned, it will interesting to see if her actions over here (with her freedom of movement) will affect what Olivia experiencing over there. Or will the reverse be true?

        Please see Forbidden Planet! Pretty good special FX for a fifties movie but a great story. It is loosely based on Shakespeare’s “The Tempest” which has also been a theme lately. (Shakespeare that is.) Maybe someday in Fringe we will get something from Hamlet, “To sleep, perchance to dream. Ay, there’s the rub,
        For in that sleep of death what dreams may come.” Or better what Prospero said in Hamlet, “We are such stuff
        As dreams are made on; and our little life
        Is rounded with a sleep.”

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  16. yis says

    “Although Bellie also confirms that he didn’t open Massive Dynamic on the Other Side, suggesting that the writers changed their minds at some point over the shape-shifters specific connection to Massive Dynamic.”

    What if they were helped by the Massive Dynamic’s people OVER HERE??

    In another topic I’m almost sure Typewriter Guy is SAM WEISS, he has his voice and his facial expressions, plus Sam once said he was older than he seems

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    • says

      Newton is a shape shifter. He takes on the persona of whomever he comes in contact with, including putting on their clothes. He probably just happened upon someone who works for MD. Otherwise, maybe MD makes high tech watches that are for sale anywhere.

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  17. gil_cdn says

    One other observation to add to your list Roco:

    Outside the Opera House, where Bolivia’s about to shoot Bell, she is standing next to a poster that read “Bask in the Glory of Scotch Whisky”.

    http://fringewikibis.wetpaint.com/photo/9838278/Bolivia_shoot_Bell

    A reference to Bolivia cannot stand the taste of alcohol VS Olivia’s usual beverage preference. Maybe this is how one could tell Bolivia from Olivia? Another clue?

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    • LizW65 says

      “Bask in the Glory of Scotch Whisky”

      Wow, that’s a really clunky slogan for an ad campaign, which makes me think it could be another anagram. I’m hopeless at those things, so would anyone else like to have a go at it?

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      • LizW65 says

        So far I’ve got “Walter” and “Boston” out of it. If it turns out to make any kind of sense I’ll let you guys know. :D

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    • says

      gil,

      Nice one. I also noticed the poster, but I read it as “glow” and not “glory”. I could be wrong, but I think glow could make more sense (if indeed this is an intentional clue) what with people from the Other Side emitting a glimmer..or ‘glow’ detectable by those with the sight.

      Perhaps this will be how Altliv’s cover is blown – perhaps revealing, in the process, that Ella – or someone – has THE POWER. Or, Altliv’s distate for alcohol could indeed play a part.

      I’m updating the post to include the possible ‘glow’ reference.

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  18. FinChase says

    I’m wondering if we should consider the fact that the anagram is in the AU in Walternate’s lab. Maybe it’s the AU that should not trust him not our our side. He doesn’t seem to have done Olivia harm. Perhaps he delayed the development of Cortexiphan abilities?

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    • yis says

      I agree with this. I TRUST Sam Weiss for some reason, at least the Sam Weiss we know, whether he’s from Over here or Over there, we don’t know which Sam they’re referring to.

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    • SF says

      Yes, good point, Fin! I think it is important that the message comes from the AU. Was it a message for Walternate, when he had the lab? Who wrote it? Was it a message from Walternate for someone?

      I’m not absolutely sure about Sam one way or the other because Nina did recommend him, and she is hiding so much info still. He has helped Olivia heal – he has also been the one to use the colour red in her healing with the cards in Dream Logic. I wonder if we should look at the episodes he does appear in, if there is a further clue to his being good or evil – or helpful or harmful to Olivia?

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  19. says

    There were a couple of things that I found odd. Whenever we see Walternate at his desk, he’s doing absolutely nothing! He’s just sitting there. No papers on his desk, no telephone, no computer (I guess those things could be imbedded in the desk itself much like Broylenate’s desk). But c’mon! The man is the head of the DOD! Shouldn’t he be doing something (other than his creepy peeking in at Olivia)?

    Also, did anyone else find it odd that during Peter and Olivia’s kiss, Peter only put one arm around her? It seems to me that if the woman you’ve been longing for followed you to another universe to tell you that she loved you and came in for a kiss that you’d at least embrace her with both arms! Maybe this is to again show his split loyalties to both sides. Maybe he feels he can never give Olivia all of him.

    Also, I mentioned this in another area, but my belief is that Sam Weiss is alternate Bell. I think AlterBell never actually died in a crash when he was young but came over here and has been hiding out as Sam Weiss. And as others have said, Weiss means white. Doesn’t white usually signify the good guys? I don’t know, but they’ve made Sam a very likeable guy and in my opinion we have no reason to distrust him at this point.

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    • fedorafadares says

      I noticed the one-armed kiss, too. My take on that is that it was shot that way to highlight Olivia’s hand on Peter’s (mechanical?) heart.

      I do like how the arm around Olivia pulled her close, though. Very intimate.

      As for Sam Weiss, I’ve speculated that he was a figment of Olivia’s traumatized mind, but no more! Now that he appears to be “real,” I like your idea that he’s AlterBell.

      The warning NOT to trust Sam was written on Walternate’s blackboard. Maybe instead of lab-partnering with AtlerBell, who had died, Walternate partnered with Weiss, who later travelled to our side to minimize the damage he witnessed Walternate causing in our universe.

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      • Jo says

        I thought the one-armed kiss was a sign that Peter’s still not totally over her lie. There’s a lot of hesitancy in that kiss in general, actually. He doesn’t touch her at all until after she’s kissed him, which is pretty amazing when you think about their usual interaction, and even though he can’t help but pull her closer (aw!), he keeps a little distance between them by not putting both his arms around her. She just put herself totally out there, but when she starts to put her other arm around his neck she ends up pulling her hand back and just resting it on his chest– again, leaving some separation between them. Seems like neither one is quite ready to give in completely.

        I also love Sam Weiss so I’m hoping that it’s significant that the anagram was written on the board in the AU. But it does worry me that Olivia was referred to Sam by Nina, since now that Bell is gone I’m beginning to think they might make Nina a big bad. On the plus side, at least it seems like we’ll get some more information on him, since I’ve always been super curious about his character.

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    • yis says

      I did notice that Peter only put one arm around her, I think that part of him hasn’t forgiven her yet for hiding the truth from him, and you can see in his eyes the doubt when he’s going to kiss her, well is Olivia that makes the move really

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      • SF says

        I don’t blame him the doubt, he must be a little confused by now – I mean, he told her he would back off so to not ruin their family unit, thinking she wasn’t ready or wanting to respond; she’s lied to him, and he’s now found out neither of his fathers have been truthful to him. I love that she lays her heart out to him, and I love that he’s able to respond to her because he’d just realized before with Alt-Liv that there was only one Olivia that he wanted. The one arm did catch me off-guard, it does show he is a little hesitant still, but I don’t blame him. I’m just very, very glad that he did pull her to him :-) It was very close and intimate, and I love that her hand goes up around his neck and pulls him closer. It’s a big step for both of them. I really like that it’s Olivia who makes the move here, and that it’s Olivia who tells him how she feels. He always been into her, and this is the first time she’s really shown how she feels about him.

        I didn’t catch the meaning that her hand was over his heart, good point, fedorafadares!

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    • FringeFan2009 says

      Yeah, I thought it was strange that he put only one arm around her too. But I don’t think it was that she kept information from him, especially when he kept information from her too. Like how he didn’t tell her about how he secured funding for further research. Oh well, they have been doing well in giving us more info in further episodes so hopefully they’ll explain this one as well.

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  20. LizW65 says

    Re: Typewriter Guy, who incidentally is NOT played by the same actor as Same Weiss:

    Someone (perhaps Walternate) must be paying him pretty well to keep that shop open, because there’s just NO way a a shop specializing in antique typewriters would survive very long, especially in this economy. There just isn’t all that much demand for them (and they don’t seem to be doing all that well on eBay, either.)

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  21. says

    I may be reaching (quite far) with this theory – but something isn’t sitting right with me regarding the whole ‘demon’s twist rusts’ translating to ‘don’t trust sam weiss’. It feels too much like an obvious ‘pay no attention to the man behind the curtain’ move to me. In other words, sure, it is an anagram for that, but is that what it really means?

    I did a quick Google search – but modified the search to show me much older results (which would exclude the recent discussions on the phrase). The 6th result (here) shows that these three words all appear within the lyrics to the U2 album ‘Joshua Tree’. The interesting part is some of the context in which the words appear:

    From the firefly, a red orange glow
    See the face of fear running scared in the valley below

    Bullet the blue sky – bullet the blue sky
    Bullet the blue – bullet the blue

    In the locust wind comes a rattle and hum
    Jacob wrestled the angel and the angel was overcome
    Plant a demon seed – you raise a flower of fire
    See them burning crosses – see the flames higher and higher

    Bullet the blue sky – bullet the blue sky
    Bullet the blue – bullet the blue

    This guy comes up to me
    His face red like a rose on a thorn bush

    In this example the word ‘demon’ appears among numerous mentions of red and blue. Interesting….

    See the stone set in your eyes
    See the thorn twist in your side
    I wait for you
    Sleight of hand and twist of fate
    On a bed of nails she makes me wait
    And I wait without you
    With or without you

    I was broken, bent out of shape
    I was naked in the clothes you made
    My lips were dry – throat like rust
    You gave me shelter from the heat and the dust
    There’s no more water in the well
    No more water, water

    Angel – angel or devil [etc repeated]

    What’s even more interesting (to me at least :D) is the significance of the album name Joshua Tree. Wikipedia says:

    The name Joshua tree was given by a group of Mormon settlers who crossed the Mojave Desert in the mid-19th century. The tree’s unique shape reminded them of a Biblical story in which Joshua reaches his hands up to the sky in prayer.

    Here we see an interesting reference back to prayer which touches on Walters recent thought process regarding God and religion. And just to come full circle (in my crazy mind that is) is this interesting fact:

    This tree has a top-heavy branch system, but also has what has been described as a “deep and extensive” root system, with roots possibly reaching up to 11 m (36 ft) away.[1] If it survives the rigors of the desert it can live for hundreds of years with some specimens surviving up to a thousand years.

    Didn’t Sam tell Olivia that he’s “much older then he looks”? :D

    OK, so I know my logic is a bit weird and I’m reaching quite a bit. I’ve never commented on a TV blog before, so that and my wild theories should just prove what a great show Fringe is, right? :)

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    • LMH says

      Ok Todd, I’m gonna go ahead and say it: I love you for this, I really like the creativity, AND you’ve got the never ending tree clues that have bombarded us this season. If “Joshua Tree” turns out to be connected somehow, you will feel very special indeed my friend!

      I’ll say it again, trees! ; )

      So, maybe the anagram is a COMBINED clue with multiple meanings. Don’t trust Sam Weiss, and an intended connection to Joshua Tree. How impressive would that be? If not, you are impressive for your creativity and imagination with this one, thanks for posting!

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  22. says

    It’s always nice to see hów much details is put into the series. I mean: an entire collection of alternate comicbook covers. Wow! Compliments to the staff and studios. This is what makes ‘Fringe’ (like ‘Lost’) stands out from the crowd. Also, i’m always fond to see my fav. number passing by: 47 :) I love it!

    I think that in season 3 we can see more color-hints, but what they mean, who knows? We’ll see and i’m very intrigued by it. The ‘stasis’ areas may lead up to something big. I’m just hypothesising about it, but it would explain a lot:

    1. the color red can be a hint for the alternate universe’s quarantined areas.
    2. the Observer(s) use the 3 green dots followed by a 4th red dot. Since they are present at important moments through time, they certainly will be present around the time that both realities will collide.
    3. Having that said, the fourth red dot may be a hint to which reality will be dominant / saved / rescued in the end.
    4. Will the Observer(s) help a specific side (reality) or will they remain neutral? One of them already helped Walter once, and another Observer saved the life of a girl, making het important. Will we see more of her? I don’t think that the Observers are neutral, but more of a buffer or balance between both realities.
    5. Walter/Walternate. Very interesting stuff going on there. What if, now William Bell is gone, Nina Sharp uses Sam Weiss to take over power from Bell in the alternate universe? But more important: what if the reál Walter traveled together with William Bell to the other side? There, alternate Bell was dead already, but Walter took over Walternate’s place (and position), taking out pieces of his brain over thére, so we can say that Peternate is already for 2 seasons with his father Walternate, the person who we all believe is Walter. Twists and turns, it all would fit perfectly n the show.
    6. In a (alternate) future, far far away… i think that Olivia and consorts will rescue part of ‘our’ universe by merging it into a red (quarantined) area in the alternate universe. Doing that, they all are placed into the amber and stay into stasis until… forever? Just playing with the idea. :)

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  23. says

    Super Clue: As we know the writers told us there was a big super clue in the season finale pointing to what would happen in S3. I know many people think that it is the Sam Weiss connection but to me that seems way too easy. Someone else here mentioned the time connection and I’m thinking that has to be it! Think back to when Olivia was first pulled over by Bell at the end of S1. She kept having what Bell called time slips. She would suddenly have a tea cup in her hand, or he’d be in a different location all of a sudden. It was as if her body/mind was adjusting to a slight discrepancy in pace of time over there. Over there, they know about the need to sync the wavelengths of the two universes to cross. Is their wavelength shorter than our, and thus time goes faster? Or do they know how to manipulate the wavelength and the effects it has on each universe? Then in this episode we hear Altlivia say that Peter was abuducted 20 years ago instead of 25 as we have come to know it. Also, the West Wing advertisement. The show ran from 1999 to 2006 over here which is 8 seasons. If the show had kept running here, we would have 12 seasons, not 11 as the poster showed. At the end when the Olivias were switched, there seemed to be too much that went on for it to happen in the timeframe that we saw. Altlivia had to be debriefed about her mission over here, they had to evacuate all their people so that they could blow everything up, they had to get Olivia captured and out of there and switch her clothes with Altlivia….all while Peter and Walter are patiently waiting inside? There’s something off there. Also, at the end Astrid said that Peter had been gone a week. We know that he was asleep for 3 days over there. Olivia and Walter were there at least 2 days. Now we don’t know exactly when they went over to retrieve Peter but does it all add up to a week? I’m not sure how we would determine that. Anyway, given that not too long ago we had an episode entirely focused on time travel, I really think they are all coming together to deal with time in S3, either time travel or time slips or manipulation of time. I’m totally convinced that time is the super clue for S3. Anyone with me??

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    • Alexia says

      I’m subscribing your theory,I too think that the Sam Weiss anagram thing was a away too easy.
      And this time connections you mentioned actually make sense,it explains the switch.

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    • yis says

      About what Astrid said, I think she means that Peter has been gone for a week, not specifically to the AU but from Boston. About the rest it seems that some time manipulation happened there.

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    • fedorafadares says

      Very cool and complex idea!

      I also think the discrepancies about time are deliberately written. I’ve thought about the whole space/time continuum and how when you travel through space, you really are traveling through time. “Over There” is more than “over-where,” it’s over “over-when,” too.

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    • fedorafadares says

      Very cool and complex idea! Lots to think about, here.

      I also think the discrepancies about time are deliberately written. I’ve thought about the whole space/time continuum and how when you travel through space, you really are traveling through time. “Over There” is more than “over where,” it’s over “over when,” too.

      Though the notion of time-travel makes me uneasy in that it gives the show a simple reset button if they ever needed it, I have high, high hopes they wouldn’t use it in a straight-forward Band-aid way.

      They’ve given us two years of interesting, layered stories to parse, I have to give them my faith!

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    • Elaine says

      This.

      I’ve been trying to gather my thoughts so I could articulate the whole Olivia switch and time slip situation, but couldn’t quite get it right. You nailed it.

      I’ve felt since ‘White Tulip’ aired that it was far more layered and important to the over arcing story than it’s obvious connection to the wear Walter’s guilt had on his need for redemption and forgiveness…especially when the flashing blue lights came back into play for the first time in a while this season.

      Taking all this into consideration, the glyphs did spell out ‘WEISS’, and the writers have already stated there’s more to the character than we’ve been shown, so, I wonder if his statement to Olivia about being older than he looks has a direct tie in with the other side having the ability (seemingly) to alter or manipulate time in sense?

      I’m also hoping S3 will allow the writers to flesh Peter out a little more with he and Walter still being estranged, and I can’t imagine it’s going to take long before he realizes they came back with alt/Olivia. It will give them a chance to bring a little more consistency to the character…ground him a bit more and get inside his head.

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    • mlj102 says

      I’m just going to add my 47 cents to this conversation…

      “Also, the West Wing advertisement. The show ran from 1999 to 2006 over here which is 8 seasons. If the show had kept running here, we would have 12 seasons, not 11 as the poster showed.”

      Actually, everything I have found shows that The West Wing ran for 7 seasons, which would make the poster advertising its 11th season accurate to the normal timeline.

      As for the discrepancy from when alternate Olivia said that Peter had been kidnapped 20 years ago, I mentioned in another topic that I really don’t think this is such a big deal. I think it’s simply a matter of estimating and it was only intended as an approximation. I really don’t think we should read into it too much. In Over There, Part 1, Alternate Olivia referenced the zero event at Reiden Lake as happening in 1985 — I think it’s pretty clear that the zero event was Peter’s kidnapping (which Walternate confirms while talking to Peter in this episode, though it’s unlikely the Fringe Division had been informed that Peter’s kidnapping was the zero event… they likely thought they were two separate incidents). The facts all seem to support the idea that it was 1985 on both sides when Peter was kidnapped. Similarly, everything seems to confirm that it’s 2010 on both sides, as well, indicating that the same amount of time has passed on both sides.

      Regarding the Olivia switch, we don’t know exactly how much time passed, but I really don’t think it would have taken too long for alternate Olivia to switch shirts with Olivia and for Walternate to tell alternate Olivia how to check in using the special typewriter. It’s certainly more doable than the way the shapeshifter managed to shift into Charlie, change clothes with him, and hide his body, all before Peter and Jessup arrived. If nothing else, it’s a minor plot hole that I am willing to overlook.

      Finally, Astrid told Peter that when she gets nervous, she cooks, and she’s been “baking pies for about a week.” My guess is that she started getting nervous and baking after they found out that Peter had returned to the other side. As you said, he was asleep for about 3 days after traveling over there, and Walter and Olivia were over there about 2 days… which makes about five days that Peter was over there — about a week. So I don’t think we’re supposed to deduce that she has been baking ever since Peter initially left, or that he was over there for a full week… The point of that conversation was to show how Astrid has been coping with the recent developments of everyone else traveling to the other side.

      That said… I agree that time travel or some other phenomenon involving time is going to play a part in Fringe to some extent. White Tulip was a great use of time travel. We’ve also got Sam Weiss who says he’s older than he looks. And there was also Hoffman who was somehow able to stay looking the same age when more than 50 years had passed. So, yes, I think time travel will continue to be an important concept that they use from time to time. It may even have a key role to play in the overall story. But I don’t think this specific episode was meant to indicate any amount of tampering with time or discrepancies of the timeline. I just don’t see it. But maybe that’s just me.

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      • says

        Mlj, you make some very valid points. I wasn’t taking into consideration that a TV season goes from the fall of one year to the spring of the next…I was just counting the years. However, now that I’m thinking of it more, shouldn’t their side be advertising the next season…which would be the 12th season?

        On the 1985 incident, your reasoning is sound. But that also makes me wonder about why they said 20 years. I can see where that could just be a rounding off by Altlivia, but you know the writers…they don’t just throw stuff in there for no reason. They would know we’re gonna pick it apart. So either they’re just messing with us or it’s significant somehow.

        I’m going to stand by my thoughts on the Olivia switch though. I just think there was too much that went on outside that would take too much time and on a normal timeline, Walter and Peter would have wondered what was up. I guess I can concede that debriefing from Walternate wouldn’t take much time (although they would have at least needed to tell her how to get to Olivia’s apartment and how to get to the shop and communicate by the typewriter – not to mention that she either takes it lightly that she’s going to another universe that she only heard about the day before or she just doesn’t question authority much…normally it would take some time to adjust to that idea). From the time Altlivia is behind Olivia and Bell, she would have had to knock out Bell, take Olivia into custody, evacuate the area (there’s no way she was going to blow up Broylenate), pull Bell back behind the concrete barrier where Olivia had been, switch clothes with Olivia, and then bomb all the cars. That’s a big ‘to do’ list in such a short amount of time.

        And Astrid, yes I agree that the timing there is shaky. But they mentioned time so many times in this episode that I feel they are wanting us to pay particular attention to it. Peter’s mom telling him he’s been asleep 3 days, meeting at the bridge at 4:00, a very deliberate scene (in my opinion) showing Altlivia’s watch at 6:00, meeting back together in 12 hours, mentioning the years since the kidnapping, Bell telling Walter they only have 4 hours left, Astrid mentioning a week. Yes, these could all be very understandable references in any episode, but it just seems like a lot to me. And they said the clue would be subtle.

        So I appreciate and respect your stand on it, but I’m going to stay with the time thing. I guess time will tell. (sorry couldn’t resist). Thanks for your thoughts and correcting me where I was in error.

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        • FinChase says

          Regarding the switch, I think that as soon as Bell was knocked out and Olivia apprehended, AltLiv had help. I would think she would immediately call Broylesnate in to coordinate the explosion and the evacuation, leaving her free to concentrate on changing clothes and receive final instructions.

          I agree that she adjusted to the idea of traveling to an alternate universe very easily! Maybe Walternate told her it would be very simple to extract. He probably just left off the part that either the journey over or the journey back might kill her. I see Walternate as the sort of person who would view someone like AltLiv as an expendable resource.

          I agree with Elaine’s comment that there may well have been prior discussion of the switch between Walternate, AltLiv and Broylesnate before leaving the Fringe headquarters. They already knew that Olivia had changed her appearance to match AltLiv’s; they couldn’t have effected a quick exchange if she had not done so. It makes sense that they would discuss this possibility. AltLiv was probably already steamed about being knocked out, so she might be ready for some payback. While I understand her reasons for adopting the disguise, Olivia did sort of play into Walternate’s hands.

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      • LizW65 says

        “…Similarly, everything seems to confirm that it’s 2010 on both sides, as well, indicating that the same amount of time has passed on both sides…”

        When Walter was questioning Fused Guy in “Jacksonville”, the man confirmed that it was 2010 on the Other Side as well. I think the time slips, such as they are, are fairly small, perhaps a few minutes at the most.

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      • Elaine says

        “Regarding the Olivia switch, we don’t know exactly how much time passed, but I really don’t think it would have taken too long for alternate Olivia to switch shirts with Olivia and for Walternate to tell alternate Olivia how to check in using the special typewriter. It’s certainly more doable than the way the shapeshifter managed to shift into Charlie, change clothes with him, and hide his body, all before Peter and Jessup arrived. If nothing else, it’s a minor plot hole that I am willing to overlook.”

        I got the impression that Walternate had already given alt/Olivia and Broylesate instructions prior to leaving the Fringe division on a possible mission. I just can’t shake the feeling that the moment he noticed Peter’s reaction that Olivia had shown up to Walternate’s office, he was devising a back up plan. That being said, you’re right, we can’t know how much time passed during he switcheroo, and I think that was the point. When alt/Olivia woke Bell, not only had she switched tops with Olivia, sent her off to Walternate, but they made the entire street look deserted complete with carnage after grenades were used. Overall, they did a far better job at the switch than they did in the premiere with Charlie and the shapeshifter like you mentioned.

        “That said… I agree that time travel or some other phenomenon involving time is going to play a part in Fringe to some extent. White Tulip was a great use of time travel. We’ve also got Sam Weiss who says he’s older than he looks. And there was also Hoffman who was somehow able to stay looking the same age when more than 50 years had passed. So, yes, I think time travel will continue to be an important concept that they use from time to time. It may even have a key role to play in the overall story. But I don’t think this specific episode was meant to indicate any amount of tampering with time or discrepancies of the timeline.”

        I concur. And I had forgetton about the creey little homicidal Nazi in ‘The Bishop Revival’, but it would appear he had made some type of scientific advancement to slow the aging process. How he did it remains to be discovered. However, with ‘White Tulip’, they let their freak flag fly in regards to the time jumping/altering/manipulating and I think it’s probably safe to say we’ll see more of that in S3…at least I certainly hope we will.

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  24. Bubbleman says

    Aw what about the blatant product shots of Microsoft Windows? There was even a Windows logo made to look like the Fringe glyphs! It would have been a HOOT if the operating system in the AU was “OS/2 Warp 10″ or something like that.

    (Yes, I’m aware that Microsoft is a sponsor of the show. Wouldn’t kill them to have a sense of humor though would it?)

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  25. Bubbleman says

    Ooh I’ve got one: the evil machine! If you look at the page the Observer left for Olivia, and the one Walternate has, they are different. Olivia’s looks like a copy, and has all those consonant/vowel combinations through Peter’s face. Walternate’s is the same except it looks much older, and instead of the letters is covered in strange glyphs. Was Walternate telling the truth that “It’s really old tech?” So where did it come from?

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  26. Meyer says

    The reference to checkpoint 4-7 is an old throwback to Alias season 3 episode 9: Conscious, where our heroine, Sydney Bristow is in a dream state trying to remember where she was held captive the previous 2 years. She sees herself being wheeled into room 47 written in huge large letters on the door. She makes a point of going back in to find out what is behind door 47. Inside she ends up fighting with herself and has to decipher what that means symbolically.

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  27. Elaine says

    I may be over thinking this, but I’m listening (yes, listening) to ‘TMFTOS’, and the investigation deals with the arrival of three embryos that have been sent from the other side, right? Okay, well, according to Bell and Walternate, all the damage on the other side came as a result of Walter crossing over and taking Peter, but when you consider that Rebecca apparently saw the shape shifters under the heavy influence of drugs and some altering by Walter back in the what, late the seventies…Walternate has been sending these soldiers years before the Cortexiphan trials and before Peter was abducted. So, who’s to say that those breeches haven’t caused as much damage to their side as what Walter did? And would this suggest that if Bell helped design the shape shifters, then he had crossed over to the other side by some means there’s no record of…which would line up with what Brandon said in part one of ‘Over There’.

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  28. Long Time Lurker says

    So Happy I stumbled upon this site! Just throwing this out there- Janet’s character from the Rocky Horror Picture show, her last name was also Weiss…probably just a coincidence- but I found it interesting.

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  29. Audrey says

    okay, so everyone remembers the primary colors; red, blue, and yellow. RED represents something in the Alternate Universe, correct? and BLUE represents our universe. and what if YELLOW represents another universe? or another league of people such as Cortextiphan kids? remember the opening credits for The Alternate Universe? it says “First People” instead of “Parallel Universes”. do you remember what Walter (about Cortextiphan kids.) said at one point, ” Everyone once had these certain abilities. Somehow, we lost those in early development.” maybe that’s what “First People” means! I’m going pretty out there with this one..

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    • Ann says

      Actually, in a set of three colours blue, red and yellow, yellow still has a dual nature to it.

      Colour produced in a transmissive way, say computer screen screens, makes use of a red-green-blue (RGB) combination. Colour produced in a reflected way, like print, use Cyan-Yellow-Magenta-Black (CYMK). Black is used for better contrast because CYM-only tends to turn out brown.

      In transmitted colour, yellow is obtained by adding red and green. Or inversely, to get green you need to subtract red from yellow.
      In reflected colour, to get green you need to add blue (cyan) and yellow.

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    • neoxer says

      We’re both going pretty out there then, Audrey, because I was wondering something similar. :) Though, in addition to a First People or Cortexiphan kids possibility, I was thinking maybe the yellow could also refer to the Observers… or some combination of the above, lol. Especially since the colors were so prominently displayed on one of the walls in Walternate’s office/meeting area/whatever. And I do remember learning that these three are the primary colors (in art class anyway, not in other respects like Ann mentioned), so maybe they’re indicative of the primary players in the Fringe world. We’ve seen yellow used in other episodes before, though I don’t think it’s been that frequent.

      Following that out there thinking, and I’ve only re-checked a few scenes so far, but it seemed like whenever a character stood in front of Walternate’s wall, they tended to be in front of a single color. It could have just been a colorful framing choice on the director’s part, but… it could have meant something… sometimes. ;)

      At one point, Altivia was in front of blue (to indicate her later switch?), Lincoln was in front of red (to indicate he’s a new character, to us, from the alt-world?), Charlienate (I still like Scarlie, which I think one of the season 1 writers came up with) was in front of the yellow (because he had a shaved head?? lol), and later, Walternate was in front of red (naturally), and in another point, Peter was in front of yellow(!). And Peter and Walternate shared a yellow drink in one scene. This could further point to him being similar to the Observers/First People/Cortexiphan kids somehow, what with him being coded to power/control this ‘old tech’ universe destroyer and that he was able to fire August’s gun.

      … Or maybe they’re just decorative bursts of color. :D

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      • jade86 says

        I like your idea neoxer, about yellow. I also think this colour has to do with First People :D
        Walter talked about first inhabitants with natural powers, so they could be the source for cortexiphan and the yellow probably has to do with them. We saw the yellow street on the wall in Olivia’s school in Jacksonville…The street that would leads the cortexi-kids to the origin of their abilities. We saw a similar thing also on Peter’s GPS displaying YELLOWSTONE ROAD in “Northwest Passage”, but in his case the yellow could directly tie him to the First People and probably the Observers. We know they traveled into time, so i think they have very old origins. Peter could have somehow inherited First People’s special powers through his DNA, and be the “select”. Here’s why the old machine works only with him, why only Peter was able to use Observer’s gun and why these guys take care of him and somehow protect him :D

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  30. PaceyBishop says

    Not sure if anyone saw this, but wikipedia mentioned a new character that would be added to this following season. The entry has been taken down now, but it was a very, very interesting bit of information about what we might be seeing next. Knowing wikipedia, though, it might have been false, but it seemed pretty legit to me, it had both the actor’s and the character’s name as well, but I can’t remember them.

    I feel like this could probably be a big spoiler, specially if it’s actually happening and it wasn’t just someone playing around. so I’m not sure if I could or should mention anything else about it :[

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  31. Krassinator says

    This might be a stupid queston but if someone could answer it that would be great: Walters plan was that Olivia was to open a crack using her cortexiphan type powers, and the ‘door stop’ was to keep it open. Well Alt-livia took her place? What happened here? Did I miss something or does Alt-livia have the same powers?

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    • mlj102 says

      They weren’t opening a new crack, but they were using the crack that Olivia and the other Cortexiphan Kids had opened when they traveled over there. So technically Olivia/alternate Olivia didn’t have to do anything.

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  32. says

    Krassinator,

    Not a stupid question. It probably wasn’t made all that clear in the episode.

    Basically, the crack had already been created by Olivia and the other Cortexikids when they crossed over in Part 1. So the Doorstop essentially re-opened the crack and kept it open long enough for Bell’s energy (his atoms where ready to split due to his numerous travelling between universes – in effect, he had the power of billions of atomic bombs) to propel them back to the Other Side.

    Hope that helps!

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  33. Oudeis says

    I think yellow could be another universe, since there was a yellow square in Walternate’s office in addition to red and blue. Plus those three are colors in the Windows logo, along with green.

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  34. says

    Hello!
    I really liked this “Fringe Observations” space in your site. I think I have one, not sure, but at least I published this on my blog: http://farid.austrinus.com/2010/05/%C2%BFhuevo-de-pascua-en-fringe (in Spanish, sorry), but I will try to translate a summary:

    When Altivia enters to her department, by a couple of seconds you can a see a pair of curious “¿decorative objects?” in a near table. This objects seems to me like small chapels, one white and one orange (you can see a caption here: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/rigel51/austrinus/chapel.png).

    If we assume this objects are ‘decorative’ chapels, one interesting detail is the top of them. ¡They have no crosses! Assuming -again- that Over There they have a religious parallel with the -representative- Christian religion in Over Here United States, sounds interesting if this parallel has not a cross like its symbol, but another element.

    Of course, the most interesting part: that element (at the top of the ‘chapels’) is very similar to a chess piece… a Bishop!

    At this point, I’m not sure if this is really a clue about the religiosity Over There, a joke from producers, or simply my mind was too curious for make all this associations. Well, this was my 2 cents to the thread anyway ;)

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    • says

      Farid,

      Interesting thoughts. I noticed them but didn’t investigate. I’m glad you did!

      They may or may not be clues, but either way I find it interesting to consider the relative importance of faith in the AU.

      Thanks for the share!

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  35. TomC says

    Remember, time travel was in the Fringe Comic Books.

    Also, the comparing of the ‘Amber’ in the AU for qurantines and the Bus in Ghost Network got the old cogs turning. What if some of the ‘Pattern’ is the testing of technology from the AU for use in their own (and not just our universes people doing nasty experiments), so the ?suitcase? on the bus that released the ‘amber’ gas stuff was eventually updated in the AU to the little gizmo that was ready to be used for the quarantine lockdown at the beginning of Over there pt1.
    This could possibly mean that Bell and massive dynamic ARE responsible for the pattern, as they have the equipment (and communication?) to transport the tech between universes to be tested….. the exploding cup!!!

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  36. hal says

    I’m watching Of Human Action right now..
    Walter says Bellie introduced him to Peter’s mother.

    if William never met Walternate then how did Walternate meet Eliznate?

    WTF

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  37. Joana says

    In the pic of Walternate’s desk, isn’t that the same gadget Nina uses as a phone? The glass thingy?

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  38. Fringefan1991 says

    I do not know if this has yet been proposed (there are too many comments for me to read through), but I was intrigued by Walter’s statement that everyone at one time in history had special abilities and that they were taken away. It is apparent to me that the abilities got taken away because mankind began to abuse their powers. I also, believe that the observers are members of a highly advanced universe who are able to use abilities because they are innocent. What I mean by this is that the observers appear to be stripped of emotion. Thus, they are innocent to the downside of human emotion. They have never experienced anger. This would also tie into why Walter and Bell’s cortexifan trials were performed on children. Children are innocent, after all, to the evils in the world.

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  39. Rogue151 says

    I’m thinking on the Sam Weiss thing, since it’s on Walternate’s board, what if Sam was walternate’s partner Over There, and the message was to remind himself no to trust Sam cause he betrayed him?

    I dunno if I want to see Sam as a bad guy really cause that would kind of just be too cliche to me.

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  40. mlj102 says

    Back when this episode initially aired, I happened to stumble across something rather odd, but I wanted to wait before I mentioned it because I thought there was a chance that it could simply be a quirk in the online copy of the episode. So I decided to wait until the DVDs came out and I could confirm it. Which I have now been able to do.

    So look really closely at the wall,ceiling behind Olivia in the scene where Olivia finds Walter in the hospital, right after Walter asks her “it is you, isn’t it” and you will see the number “122” flash up there very faintly for a split second. Because it’s so quick and faint, it’s extremely difficult to see if you’re not looking for it. I haven’t seen this mentioned elsewhere, and I have no idea what the significance would be, but it has to be intentional, right? Or is this the kind of thing that frequently appears in TV shows, and I’ve just never noticed it before? I would love it if someone could explain this to me, or provide some sort of interpretation…

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