FRINGE: Extended Finale Trailer

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The extended trailer for the Season 4 finale has arrived — check it out below.

HT: @Jonxproductions

Comments

  1. Maris says

    Oh my … Bell have a really bad complex of God!
    Seems it’s going to be a very awesome episode. Difficult is to realise that this is the lest episode of the season.
    It’s going to happen so much thing … oh my poor heart !!!
    Really looking for Friday! :)

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8

  2. JM says

    Hopefully Leonard Nimoy’s intense awesomeness will make me look over the extensive flaws in this storyline

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 28

  3. FringeAgentAmanda says

    This trailer just made me want to really have a Fringe movie!! But I guess having a 5th season was already pushing it… :p Come on Friday!

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  4. fringo says

    lol? there are no flaws. blame yourself if you dont understand the story

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    • JM says

      I understand the story perfectly well, if you have not seen any flaws in the current storyline you must have rose tinted glasses on. The idea that Bell has created his own Noah’s ark and by collapsing both universes will create a third new one that he rules over is ludicrous (even for FRINGE). In the last episode DRJ magnified the sun to lure Peter out in order to attack him with a crowbar… no flaws you say?

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      • Scott42444 says

        That crowbar thing makes me laugh just thinking about it. He puts nanomites on an escalator, harnesses the power of the sun into a laser beam, then kicks and uses a crow bar to dispatch of Peter.
        It’s like that old Gilligan’s Island joke, “What’s the deal with the Professor? He make a radio out of a coconut, but he can’t fix a hole in the damn boat!”

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      • James says

        Jones was never meant to kill Peter though, it was just another attempt at activating Olivia’s abilities, same as Jessica Holt earlier in the episode was a plant.

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        • JM says

          OK, if that was Bells plan how the hell would Jones know that? It was clear that Jones thought he had to kill him, I don’t remember the exact wording but wasn’t he told to “eliminate the bishop”?

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          • TW says

            As far as I could tell, Jones didn’t know who Peter Bishop was when Peter showed up on the scene and sat across from him at the interrogation table. So when Bell says he’s been waiting “20 years” to sacrifice the Bishop, what made Jones think he was talking about Peter Bishop and not WALTER ?

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      • says

        The concept of willing suspension of disbelief is the only way the audience will enjoy the show. I think that it is an essential part of Fringe, as it always has been.
        I accept it, unrealistic plots and all, and I have always been entertained.

        Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 31

        • says

          Betty, totally agree with you . . . . it’s part of the fun of FRINGE and watching Sci-fi in general. The beauty of FRINGE is that it is grounded in the relationships of the characters, not the science. “I know it’s not exact science, Peter . . .” Ep. 6B

          Now, I will admit that sometimes the plotholes and such can be maddening, but the fantastic definitely outweighs the occassional suspect aspects of the show. :)

          Yeah, I guess I do wear rose-colored glasses when it comes to FRINGE.

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          • Briar says

            Yes, SF is all about fantastic possibilities and suspending disbelief. But stories are told around the characters who enact them. If we are to suspend our disbelief about, say, passing between possible universes, we have to ground our trust in the story line on the characters behaving consistently as they have been portrayed. Bad SF doesn’t care about its characters, only its plot lines, but Fringe was always ace at characterisation and its key characters being well drawn in depth and consistent in behaviour. It had majorly cool ideas, but it liked its people too. That is why we suspended our disbelief willingly. Suddenly changing characterisations without an explanation (ie, that they were alternates from another universe, living a different life and developing differently therefore) shakes trust and undermines the suspension of disbelief. Having to force oneself not to disbelieve, rather than be persuaded into it by a mixture of trust and narrative skill, means the listener has taken over a major part of the storyteller’s job, and that’s not in the contract.

            Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8

        • Scott42444 says

          I am an active participant in suspension of disbelief. Fringe is my favorite show of all-time (assuming Season 5 is as awesome as I think it will be), but I just can’t get over the damn crow bar thing. Jared Harris even acted his butt off in that scene. When he was dying he looked appropriately crazy/happy.

          Like: Thumb up 5

            • Scott42444 says

              Yeah, I have a new take. I really hope that isn’t some flashback, or heck even the “Previously on Fringe” segment. Alternate Jones? Shapeshifter died? Either way, my second largest criticism from “Brave New World: Part 1″ could be obliterated, and I couldn’t be happier!

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        • Darth Kate says

          you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means….

          we aren’t supposed to just suspend our disbelief. the writers are supposed to earn it from us.

          so in other words, you’re enjoying the show based on a misconception. have fun.

          Like: Thumb up 5

      • Cortexiphan Kid says

        The most flawed thing with giant magnifying glass and magnifying the sun is, that when DRJ did it, was night.

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    • Darth Kate says

      LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Oh my god, you’re kidding, right?… oh lord, you’re not. That is so sad…

      Like: Thumb up 2

  5. Scott42444 says

    Okay, I can honestly say I have no idea where we are going with this episode. I just wish that they would have set this up a little better.
    I mean, 1 month ago we were all thinking about DRJ and his plan to possibly destroy 2 universes, much like Season 1…
    Now…only 4 episodes later, we are thinking about William Bell creating a universe with Dinosaurs (I know they aren’t really dinosaurs, but still I was expecting a bearded man with a cane housing an ambered mosquito to be standing with Walter and William) that will probably never be, because the Observers are going to take over our current universe and the Red Universe is no longer part of the equation.
    Seems like a more interesting idea than the first one, kinda wish (even though it would be less of a “shock”) that we were running with this plot thread for a bit longer than 2 episodes.
    BTW, anyone else kinda think of that NBC show “Surface” when Bell and Walter were standing there looking at those reptilian creatures on that island? It reminded me of the finale of that show.

    Like: Thumb up 7

    • Ian S. says

      Yeah Fringe’s finales always seem to be really different then the rest of the season actually, and now that I’ve noticed that I love it.

      “There’s More Than One of Everything” was all about the parallel universe, even though we had only really learnt about it the episode before, and it was awesome!

      In “Over There” , we travelled over to the alternate universe, which hadn’t really happened at all in the show. Olivia was left there, Cortexiphan kids died, William Bell died, etc.. it was completely different from the episodes before! Peter crossed over one episode before!

      And of course, “The Day We Died”, 15 years in the future, Olivia dies, the redverse has been destroyed, the machine is sent back through time, the bridge made, Peter erased, etc… NO lead up at all, but it was AMAZING!

      So if that’s any indication, then Brave New World Part 2 (which is really the finale for me, not Brave New World Part 1, that was just set up) will bring together all these plot threads, introduce a bunch of new material and be just frickin awesome!!!

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      • Scott42444 says

        I know, the finales are awesome! I am just upset that they didn’t have more of this spread out over the last few episodes. I enjoyed Season 4 more than a lot of other folks on this site, but I do agree that it felt a lot slower than the end of 2 and most of 3. After watching it again, without having to wait weeks and even a month (damn you MLB) between episodes, I enjoyed Season 4 a bit more. But still, it could have used 1/3 of the plot lines and actions of Episode 19, 20, 21, and now 22 to spruce up the entire Season a bit.

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      • Yippee says

        But see there was build up to Over There though. Walter had kept the secret that Peter was from the AU, Olivia finds out, Peter finds out and runs away only to come face to face with Walternate, Olivia and Walter travel over and Walternate knows and asks the AU team to capture them. Olivia finds Peter which ticked off Walternate and Walternate captures Olivia.

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        • Scott42444 says

          Agreed. It was on course with the rest of the season. This whole thing with William Bell creating new universe with his creatures wouldn’t have made sense to me if you would have mentioned it to me 3 weeks ago.

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        • Ian S. says

          That’s true, ahhh good times.. I miss season 2, where the build up was perfect and the payoff was tremendous (but hey, The Day We Died is my favourite episode of all time ;) ) , but I agree, there should have been much more build up to this finale. There was so much wasted time this season, it really just kills me that the writers did it -.- *cough wallflower and forced perspective*

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    • Amanda says

      Hahaha seriously. “OMG WE NEED TO CLOSE THE BRIDGE AND NEVER SEE THE OTHER UNIVERSE AGAIN IN ORDER TO PREVENT DRJ FROM ACHIEVING HIS GOALS”. Next episode: Psych, he was going to do it anyways, with or without the other universe!!! -__-

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9

      • Scott42444 says

        Right? It’s like, they could have gotten rid of about 5 mid-season episodes and replaced them with the Jones arc. Then they could have gone all out with this William Bell storyline over the course of about 4 episodes, and maybe even explored more of the “Letters of Transit” timeline, and still given us a major cliffhanger (which we all know is still coming to set up Season 5). It just seems like a waste of so many hours of Fringe, and then we have 44 minutes of AWESOMENESS (minus the 5 minute Sprint or Nissan advertisement that will pay for the special effects) that seems like it should have been longer. It makes me so mad! I believe that Fringe has the best cliff hangers in the history of television, but they could just give us a little more of it!

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        • Scott42444 says

          I know that it all is really probably based around Leonard Nimoy. I bet they couldn’t get him to commit until the last minute, so they kind of rewrote the finale and it seems a little packed in or rushed. I mean, it was an awesome surprise to have Leonard Nimoy appear out of nowhere (and I was even more surprised because I didn’t notice his name during the opening credits) but in the grand scheme of things, that surprise will wear off. Expanding on what seems like an awesome idea (based on the previews it appears that Bell is further along with his plan than we previously could have imagined) probably would have been better since we only have 13 more episodes left after Friday night.

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          • Scott42444 says

            I meant to say that if they knew that William Bell was going to be a part of it, they should have had a bit of build up for it. But, I think that they seriously weren’t sure if Nimoy was going to commit so they couldn’t commit. Once the ink dried on his contract, they had to pack as much in as they could. I love Leonard Nimoy, but imagine if they had a more committed actor to the role (not that Nimoy doesn’t give it his all, it’s just that he has had to come out of retirement twice to play the role and one time they only had his voice).. We could have had some crazy Walter/Bell stuff going on for a good chunk of Season 4.

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            • willg says

              If they had more a build up with the Bell character it would not have the impact that it had. I prefer the impact to the buildup. :)

              Like: Thumb up 6

              • Scott42444 says

                That’s my point. It was an awesome surprise. But, when you look back on the show once it has completed it’s run (around Christmas this year, maybe?) that surprise will wear off. But, if there was a bit more exploration into this really cool plot thread I think it would outweigh that shock. Look at me, I sound very negative about Fringe. I really do love it, I guess my frustration is based more on the countdown to it’s finale than anything else. I want 30 more and I know that I only have 14 more.

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                • willg says

                  I hear ya brother. It will be a sad day indeed. I know someone mentioned here that they just rewatched all 21 hours of season four; I am thinking maybe we will see things more clearly when the season gets rewatched. I still love it though.

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            • says

              I’ll take Mr. Nimoy anyway I can get him.

              The fact that Pinker and Wyman got him to commit to the end of season 4 is above and beyond what many of us would have expected. Bonus !!!!

              Like: Thumb up 4

  6. DeepRunner says

    W-O-W. This is gonna be good. Spock becomes Dr. Carol Marcus (Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan).

    Other observations:

    * It looks like it COULD be P/O jumping from the helicopter, probably to save Walter from William’s Ark. The Cortexiphan Queen and The Boom Boom Machine Man. Avengers in their own right.

    * September with a gunshot wound

    Come on Friday, get here fast.

    *

    Like: Thumb up 7

  7. SissySiri says

    On another Fringe site there is an article by Count Screwloose, isn’t that Michael Cerveris aka September? Anyway it is a lengthy, well written article where he is more or less comparing this upcoming episode to Planet of the Apes. You think you are somewhere else but you are actually home.

    Like: Thumb up 5

    • TW says

      Count Screwloose and Cerveris are one-and-the-same ? How do you know ?

      If that’s a fact, I don’t see how he could fly under the radar of Wyman/Pinkner lol. Although if he is actually posting theories and such in that manner, then he’s as obsessed as we are with the show lol. That sly sock-puppet of an Observer lol ….

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      • SissySiri says

        He tweeted a response to something on another site which included his picture. The site, if I remember correctly acknowledged that it was him. He is as obsessed as we are, I love that guy.

        Like: Thumb up 2

    • TFT says

      Yeah, it definetly is him! Just listen to his lengthy Fringe podcast and you can hear him talk. ;)

      Like: Thumb up 2

        • Count Screwloose says

          Whoa! Just wanted to point out that the talented Mr. Cerveris has nothing to do with any writings by “Count Screwloose.” I think the confusion has sprung from a twitter reply he sent me that was subsequently reposted elsewhere. The provenance of a tweet is often confusing due to the way the names of writer and respondee appear, so I think some readers were confused by it. At any rate, just wanted to clear that up.

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          • SissySiri says

            Oops! Thanks for clearing that up. No correction needed on this, the article was great.

            Like: Thumb up 3

    • TW says

      In reverse it says “it is impossible”.

      If you speed it up just a *hair*, like 25% … it sounds like September saying it. But he also says that in the Season 4 opener, so ….

      Like: Thumb up 3

  8. rafa says

    dinosaurs? really? wtf is this??!?!
    this better be good, wyman

    who is olivia applying an injection? observer?!?!

    Like: Thumb up 3

    • TW says

      It looks like Olivia is giving the injection to herself … and the tools being used are similar to Rogue’s in the Arrival when he read people’s minds for their memories (imo at least). So if I’m right in what I’m seeing … either this is an alternate Olivia again, or maybe it’s a shapeshifter version of her.

      I might go out on a wild limb here and say that Bell has created a whole “species” based on clones of Olivia …. except these are obedient to him. Why repopulate the earth with a single “Eve” when you can have multiple ones running around all with the same powers that you’ve designed and engineered ? If you want a really sick twist to it all, he could have designed a “wife” for himself, and made her a clone of Olivia. If the show wanted to cement in stone Bell’s “evil side” … all it would need to do is show us that he made a designer version of Olivia for himself which he is going to repopulate the earth with lol. That would enrage even those who don’t claim to be shippers haha ….

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      • D says

        It really does look like she’s giving herself an injection, and the look on her face seems so NOT Olivia that TW’s theory of a shapeshifter (before the wild limb theories) seems frighteningly plausible.

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      • Yippee says

        I think it’s Olivia injecting Jessica since I saw a pic from EW showing Olivia injecting Jessica with a needle.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8

        • TW says

          That would make sense lol :-)

          But what is she getting ready to do to her I wonder ? Get medieval on her ?

          Like: Thumb up 4

        • says

          You’re right, it’s Olivia injecting Jessica. I wonder why she’s injecting her and with what?

          I’m so excited to see this episode, but also sad because its the last one until the fall . . .:( I’m so glad they got a 5th season–to think this episode could have been it.

          Like: Thumb up 5

  9. MISSNETT says

    Roco, could you do screencaps of this? I need a break down of this. The end scenes go so fast!
    I can not wait until Friday!!

    Like: Thumb up 1

    • shidey17 says

      Okay, my obsession with dinosaurs aside, I think we are beyond jumping the shark here…I’m not sure when it occurred, and I’ll still keep the faith, but um…. I just don’t know what to say.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8

        • TW says

          Lol … I’m pretty sure they are created animals of Bell/etc. Accelerated Darwinism, transgenic species, etc. Ala “Unleashed” and “Transformation” and “Nothing as It Seems”.

          Although dinosaurs are linked to the people of 2026 (that will no longer exist) when they sent the Machine back through the wormhole 250 million years. The First People, in other words …

          Like: Thumb up 3

          • Jacko says

            Show almost jumped the shark in the beginning of the season, but this ending is packing a punch! If the season finale answers questions, then I say it hasn’t jumped the shark. If it doesn’t I say it has jumped the shark. And I don’t mean answers for everything. I mean answers for WTF is going on this season with the shapeshifters and all that stuff, hopefully also the Machine paradox.

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      • Darth Kate says

        lol you’re still worried about jumping the shark? That sh*t happened ages ago.

        Like: Thumb up 5

      • willg says

        I am not even sure it is possible for Fringe to jump the shark. They top themselves with craziness upon craziness.

        Like: Thumb up 5

  10. says

    If Walter was committed to St. Claire’s because he was deemed mentally unstable in season 1, what fate awaits William Bell ?
    Is he legally insane, because he cannot distinguish fantasy from reality. Will he be committed to a mental institution at the end of season 4, with Walter being his only visitor.
    So looking forward to the finale.

    Like: Thumb up 4

  11. RKron says

    Who said those were dinosaurs? I see them as the mutated animal-hybrids in the shipping containers Bell has been packing on cargo ships for episodes now.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 12

    • Scott42444 says

      That is clearly what they are. That alligator hybrid that was in Season 1 is what I think (I am pretty sure we have seen all of the creatures that were on the freighter at some point in the series). But, come on. You have to admit. It does kind of look like Terra Nova during that little glimpse during that preview. Well, Terra Nova with less dinosaurs (only 2). Plus, the sounds they make are kind of like the dragon things from NBC’s “Surface”.

      Like: Thumb up 4

    • shidey17 says

      It was me. But I wasn’t serious. I just have an unhealthy obsession with dinosaurs.

      Like: Thumb up 1

          • Cortexiphan Kid says

            Everybody loves dinosaurs, Shridey17, we are not alone!
            But of course, Velociraptors are the most awsome species lol.

            Like: Thumb up 1

              • Cortexiphan Kid says

                :O
                Don’t tease me, Surun Tunne, you don’t wan’t to insult a velociraptor. Just watch Jurassic Park, you’ll see what happens if you do that …
                lol

                Like: Thumb up 2

                • Surun Tunne says

                  I just get incedibly bored with every movie or show that includes dinosaurs.

                  and I’ve watched Jurassik Park a couple of years ago…boring!

                  but I think I am pretty alone with my opinion that dinosaurs are boring!^^

                  Like: Thumb up 6

  12. dawson says

    I dont think we deal with dinosaurs i mean fringe can be LOL sometimes but i think we deal with the new creatures we ve seen since season 1. I framed the trailer and i see September with the blood mark , so we gonna find out how he got shot? I still cant connect these events with the episode 19 at all . The trailer make Bell look like he is having a serious GOD complex that God himself would pack his stuff from heaven and leave for another place and time . why i have the weird feeling September being shot would be random and someone from the Bell gang shoots him?

    The Obsevers play Terra Nova and destroy the planet timetravel back in time and take control . Bell is for St-Claire’s first class area with playing god and all destroying worlds and such . At least Walternate was a villain with reason that i can understand revenge and all but we reach crazy 100% fail system someone push the button .

    I think Jessica is more than what i thought , i guess Olivia injects her with something but what and why?

    September says something like its impossible in the last reversed part. Impossible such ” nope ive seen all the futures and its impossible ” and the rest are nope LOL its fringe everything is possible !!!

    Like: Thumb up 3

  13. Fringefan says

    WTF, William Bell?! If we are capable of being gods then it is our destiny to do so?! That is crazy! Can’t wait for the finale!

    Like: Thumb up 5

    • TW says

      I thought the same thing. I chalk it up to being in Vancouver, home of SyFy and their lackluster brand of special FX (minus a few series of course).

      Like: Thumb up 0

  14. Cortexiphan Kid says

    These are not dinosaurs, I’m sure of that. It’s that creature from Unleashed (btw, one of my favorite Fringe monsters).
    I wonder, how they will reproduct, since they there doesn’t seem to be a lot of hosts, and those hymeras need them, since they share a part of genetic material with wasps from family of Ichneumonidea.

    Like: Thumb up 2

  15. Cortexiphan Kid says

    OMG, I love dinosaurs sooooooo much!
    If they would appear on Fringe, I would forget every plot hole that ever bothered me.

    Like: Thumb up 0

  16. hellrasinbrasin says

    After re-watching, the 1st 21 hours of Season 4; Season 4 being the 1st year of the rebooted timeline. I have come to the conclusion that Bell was the hidden threat across the whole season I mean the only shadow bigger than Massive Dynamic is William Bell.

    Like: Thumb up 3

      • shidey17 says

        I was wondering the same thing…I’m going to go back and do a Season 4 rewatch after the finale, and I’m wondering if once I know how it ends, the earlier episodes will be different for me.

        Like: Thumb up 3

      • Scott42444 says

        I just did and I like Season 4 a lot more than I did. I think that it has something to do with the CRAZY anticipation you have inbetween the Season 3 finale and the Season 4 premiere. Then, it moved kind of slow when compared to the fast pace of Season 3′s last few episodes. Plus, there were all the mid-season breaks (and that damn MLB playoff game that screwed up the mid-season cliff hanger). Also, when you go back with the knowledge you have accumulated throughout the whole Season you have a different perspective. It really is a pretty good season, but all in all I am still a little annoyed at how much is packed into the final few episodes, which have a really cool plotline, that they didn’t include more of what’s happening now earlier in the season and spread it out a little bit.

        Like: Thumb up 5

        • Scott42444 says

          I just remembered as I was replying to Darth Kate down below. The one thing that NEVER stops being annoying and still comes across as an incredible waste of the characters’, the actors’, and the viewers’ time is the whole “Peter is in the wrong timeline?” crap. I mean, did anyone really believe that? Then, when Olivia regains her memory, they wasted time for 3 more episodes playing games with that garbage. Birdwatching the season, I cringe every time they refer to Peter screwing with Olivia’s emotions because she is not “his Olivia”. The first few episodes that Peter returns aren’t so bad, because it is totally a normal plot device, but when we start getting into the one’s where Peter goes into the Observer’s mind it just makes my ears start to bleed.. That is half a season where nobody is fooled in the audience. It’s just disappointing watching all this action with Bell happening now and just wondering what could have been if they would have dropped that crap (and no, I am not against developing characters I am against the writers trying to build false tension) and given us this awesome stuff earlier.

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    • Chris says

      I’ve rewatched all of season 4 and I like it a lot. With the exception of Wallflower, still don’t like that episode. Season 2 is still my favorite, but this season is my next favorite so far. Hopefully the finale does this season justice.

      Like: Thumb up 5

    • TW says

      Try rewatching the *pilot* with the following ideas as your filter:

      * Bell was slowly pulling Olivia in to activate her, using John Scott and others to play dumb but toy with her emotionally in order to “prep” her for the activation
      * Broyles was in on it, and that’s why he was “best friends” with Sanford Harris and why Olivia was surrounded by the likes of Scott, Loeb, Harris, etc … all within the department she was working in. It’s also why Broyles was so antagonistic towards her at first: toying with her emotionally. Same as Nina.

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  17. Surun Tunne says

    DAMNIT, why did I watch this!!! from now on i will never watch a next episode promo again!

    Like: Thumb up 3

    • shidey17 says

      lol We all say that every time! But then we watch the previews again when they come out! Ari Margolis is teasing major spoilers in the episode clips that are coming out later today!

      Like: Thumb up 2

      • Surun Tunne says

        true, I have also said this before but this time I’m really going to try very hard to resist!

        yes, I’ve read this and I.WILL.NOT.WATCH.THEM!!!!!!!!!
        :-)

        Like: Thumb up 3

  18. Alt Chris says

    Ok So is this William Bell the Blue Universe William Bell (from seasons 1-3) but in the Amber timeline? or the Amber-blueverse Bell? or the Amber-Redverse Bell?
    Or somehow the Original Redverse Bell? haha hmmm
    Can anyone help me out here? Have we met THIS incarnation of Bell Before? (not including Letters of Transit – which im assuming is the same Bell from Brave New World)
    God I Love This Show! :)

    Like: Thumb up 3

    • shidey17 says

      I say it seems like he is Bell from the Blue/Amber verse because he knows Walter well and doesn’t seem to be the same Bell we saw in the first three Seasons. But, that said, if he has the powers he claims to in this season, then maybe even he is aware of the reboot and has managed to circumnavigate it somehow.

      Like: Thumb up 3

      • Alt Chris says

        Now THAT would be cool!
        Anything that brings us back full circle to all our Season 1-3 characters I am on board with! We’ve had Olivia remember, now for the rest!

        Like: Thumb up 1

    • Scott42444 says

      I am assuming that it is the Amber/Blue Universe Bell, but he is basically left unchecked and becomes what Walter was afraid he would become…basically trying to play God because as Joshua Jackson said in that recent “Endgame” video, in the Fringe world we have basically gotten to the point scientifically where we can play God. It’s true, William Bell has found a way to destroy most of “God’s” work and reshape a new universe in a manner of his choosing. Crazy.. I think that it is an awesome plot idea….

      …TOO BAD IT IS GOING TO BE CRAMMED INTO 44 MINUTES!!! Could have spread this out and fleshed it out over about 1/3 of a Season!

      Like: Thumb up 0

  19. Darth Kate says

    I’m so excited! I’ve been waiting for the resolution to this prolonged conflict for four whole seasons!

    oh wait, no I haven’t because they just established it last week.

    And there’s virtually no tension because they’re not actually going to kill off olivia… or astrid.

    k, sorry. never mind guys. false alarm.

    Like: Thumb up 5

    • shidey17 says

      Ah, Kate, I’m starting to agree with you… (who’d have thought?)

      I hope they do something spectacular and unexpected (in a good way) Friday.

      Like: Thumb up 7

    • Scott42444 says

      I agree with you here, but not about the cortexiphan thing. I also believe that suspension of disbelief would apply in the whole “cortexiphan has limitless abilities” situation.

      Like: Thumb up 0

      • Darth Kate says

        if they had established it waay erlier i wouldn’t have a problem. but instead they just brought it up in the episode before its going to likely be important.

        Like: Thumb up 0

    • Briar says

      I wouldn’t count on that. They repeat September’s prophecy about Olivia, and if you recall the wording it implies that it is necessary that Olivia die rather than that it is unavoidable. Stopping Bell may well include killing Olivia to dispose of her super powers, and that is what may happen.

      Like: Thumb up 0

  20. Darth Kate says

    Some advice to people on this site. I keep seeing the same excuse used over and over again IMPROPERLY and it’s driving me nuts. Willing suspension of disbelief is not and has never been a justification for plot holes. ever. if you think it is, you are wrong. look it up.

    Wiling suspension of disbelief is how we accept seemingly impossible things like the existence of magic or alien species in a story. If the writers stick to the rules they have established, then, for the sake of the narrative, we can believe that there is a magical wizard school in england or that luke skywalker was able to pull off an impossible shot and destroy the death star thanks to the power of the force. THAT is willing suspension of disbelief. The point when you stat to plainly see the narrative stumblings of the writers is when willing suspension of disbelief has been broken.

    As such, a FAILURE in willing suspension of disbelief would be if, say, an experimental drug was established over a number of seasons to produce certain telekinetic abilities in people, but then at the end of the penultimate season it suddenly has regenerative powers even though it hasn’t been used like that or even implied to have that ability before. This situation would be hard for many viewers to accept because the drug has never been established to work that way until right before it is needed, which would just seem way too convenient and thus unrealistic. So, it’s a good thing that nothing like that has happened in Fringe….. oh wait.

    Like: Thumb up 5

    • Darth Kate says

      long story short, if you’re going to try and defend what’s left of this show, please know what you’re talking about first.

      Like: Thumb up 3

    • Chris says

      Just because other people have a different level of belief suspension doesn’t make you right and them wrong. People can suspend their disbelief in different ways than you. I understand you are not at all happy with this season but lots of other people are.

      James Heath was able to cure disease with his cortexiphan abilities. How is that telekinetic? Olivia somehow came back from being brain dead in A New Day in the Old Town. I would be led to believe that might have had something to do with regenerative properties of cortexiphan in her system.

      Like: Thumb up 4

        • Scott42444 says

          I read your point, and I disagree. Basically, from Season 1 until last Friday, there has been a reoccurring theme of, “Olivia, you have no idea how powerful you can become”.
          Now, this Season, unlike any of the others, Olivia has had repeated cortexiphan doses injected into her (and even though we have only seen it happen once or twice, and headaches mentioned a few times, I think we are supposed to believe that it has happened many, many times) AND we have seen people actively trying to release all of these abilities. Now, being able to start fires (pyro-kinesis, as Walter and Stephen King would say), travel unharmed between universes, and have telekinetic powers are kind of all over the place. Well, the universe travelling thing at least is different from the other two, at least. It has always been the Fringe thing that was left open ended, both the extent of cortexiphan’s abilities and Olivia’s.. I mean, cortexiphan gave that one guy the ability to heal people at the hospital before dying (Over There). How is that so different?
          Now, if she were shot and she just popped back up and Walter yelled, “Yay! Cortexiphan, I forgot about that!”. I would be with you. But they have given me, at least, the impression that all the cortexiphan kids could do just about any super powered type of thing based on their designs.

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          • Darth Kate says

            no. the point was the definition of willing suspension of disbelief. you can’t disagree because it’s not an opinion. ignore the fringe related example, i should have known better than to include it in this environment.

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            • Scott42444 says

              Once again, I have had this discussion before. I took classes at the writers workshop in Iowa City in the late 90′s and am going back to night school now. I recently (within the past 5 years) took a film study course (trying to go back for a new determine my early 30′s, ugh) and there was a very heavy discussion about the 20th century definition (being that there has been the introduction of new forms of media) of “suspension of disbelief” or “willing suspension of disbelief” has changed to a looser definition. I am far from a professor, but I do feel confident that I can speak on this subject with SOME legitimacy.

              Here is a definition that I feel I agree with, but please note that I KNOW Wikipedia is not always a reliable source. I just feel it is in line with my feelings on the definition of the term.

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief

              That section of the term being used more loosely in the 20th century and the part about being used to overlook plot holes is the part I was focusing on.

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              • Darth Kate says

                you do realize this is the internet and there’s no way of proving anything you just said, right? and don’t link me to the definition. I’ve read the definition. It has nothing to do with excusing plot holes.

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                • JM says

                  This is a rare occasion where I agree completely with Kate. Willing suspension of disbelief is me pretending that Fauxlivia is not wearing a different darker wig to season 2, and that I couldn’t see spots of blonde through it in a scene in 4.18. That does not mean I’m willing to believe things like there being no human interface (for peter) in this timeline although the machine clearly has place for hands and feet to go in it!

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      • Darth Kate says

        also, james heath could cure illnesses. he didn’t regenerate anything. and olivia waking up from the coma had nothing to do with cortexiphan.

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        • Chris says

          First off I’m a girl, nice try. I was trying to point out that James Heath had an ability that wasn’t telekinetic. Second Olivia had no brain function i.e. brain dead, coma patients usually have brain function. So something regenerated her brain function, unless you want to go the its a miracle route.

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          • Darth Kate says

            nice try at what? i took a fifty fifty guess. also, the fact remains that it has never EVER been suggested that cortexiphan had that ability until last week. And that is because the writers are going to use it to bring olivia back when she dies. That is lazy writing. fact. if you’re still fine with that, great! but it doesn’t make it any less lazy and obvious.

            Like: Thumb up 3

          • Ian S. says

            I agree with Chris, Olivia coming back from having no brain function makes sense now, and at that point in the show Walter was still so unstable he really could not remember much about the trials. It wasn’t a fitting moment in the show to suddenly say it. Now, it is.

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            • Darth Kate says

              then that makes it a retcon, assuming it even gets established at all, which it has not been yet.

              Like: Thumb up 1

        • Cortexiphan Kid says

          ”also, james heath could cure illnesses”
          True, there is a diference between healing and regeneration.

          ”Healing is the ability to cause other individuals to heal injuries at an increased rate, resulting in complete recovery in a matter of seconds.”

          ”Rapid cell regeneration (also referred to as “rapid cellular regeneration”, “spontaneous regeneration”, “tissue regeneration”, “epithelial cell regeneration”, or simply “regeneration” or “healing”) is the ability to regenerate cells at an increased rate, resulting in physical injuries healing in a matter of seconds or minutes.”

          Like: Thumb up 1

      • Darth Kate says

        furthermore, the fact that you appear to have completely disregarded my point in favor of leaping to defend the show only further supports my stance that this community is completely oblivious to basic narrative conventions. So thanks.

        Like: Thumb up 4

        • Chris says

          I wasn’t trying to disregard your point. I was trying to say that people can suspend their disbelief at different levels.

          I’ve never known how Olivia came back from being basically being dead. So while it had never been specifically stated before if cortexiphan does have regenerative properties that in hind sight would explain the already returning from the dead once before.

          Sorry didn’t mean to upset you, just trying to have a conversation. Didn’t mean to come off as unwilling to listen to another point of view. Just trying to explain why I am not upset with the turn of events.

          Like: Thumb up 3

          • Darth Kate says

            And I’m sorry i snapped.

            My issue is not about level of suspension so much as it is about people using the concept as an excuse. it simply isn’t meant to be used that way. It literally can’t be.

            I personally don’t buy the hindsight thing because of the fact that it was never established previously. and if it is really the explaination for why she woke up from her coma, then it’s too late in the game now for it to be considered anything other than a retcon.

            I see this whole situation as the writers wanting to try and build tension without figuring out a way to write themselves out of it first. it feels like they foreshadowed that liv was going to die before they had finished nailing down a way to get out of it later. So they just took something that already exists in cannon and gave it slightly new properties to suit their needs. needless to say, it bothers me. :/

            Like: Thumb up 5

            • Chris says

              All very good points. The writers have been trying to scare us this second half of the season with Olivia dying, but she is the main character, there is no way that is going to die and stay dead. So to some extent that has been annoying me as well since I know she isn’t going to die and then not be in season 5.

              Like: Thumb up 4

            • Scott42444 says

              See, I feel as if the Olivia dying thing (as well as Astrid dying) is basically a non-issue. I have no real feelings of worry about her actually dying and not being on the show anymore. None. I never felt that Peter was “in the wrong timeline” either. There was entirely too much dialogue dealing with that garbage. Especially once Olivia got her memories back. But, that is another example of the writers using cortexiphan for whatever purpose they choose. Suddenly, the cortexiphan dosing allows her to be the only person to remember the old timeline? Also, the whole timeline being rewritten in the first place. The whole thought of it, and why do the Olivia’s hate each other? How is Broyles back alive? Etc. Etc. It is enough to make your head explode. This is just my opinion and I do respect yours because you are obviously intelligent and give it a lot of thought. But, as a viewer of Fringe you have to (pardon the term) “suspend your disbelief” with the following ideas/things:
              1. Cortexiphan has unlimited abilities, or can give someone who was subjected to it unlimited abilities no matter how outrageous it may seem. They have had multiple characters allude to this over the course of every season and have shown many examples of this and are introducing more and more each episode as the writers see fit.
              2. The Machine has the ability to do just about anything, even if it creates a time paradox, or just mangles all known theories of physics.
              3. The Observers have similar abilities to both 1 and 2.

              Like: Thumb up 2

              • Darth Kate says

                “as a viewer of Fringe you have to (pardon the term) “suspend your disbelief” with the following ideas/things:”

                See, that’s the exact misuse of the term that i have been talking about. I don’t *have* to do anything. The writers have to *convince* me. again, my biggest issue with the cortexiphan thing is not that it has unlimited abilities, but that it was only established to have this particular one right before it is going to be used. that is 1) incredibly convenient, and 2) toeing the line of deus ex machina. this bothers me. the writers should have thought it out more.

                Furthermore, accepting that the machine can just mangle physics is crap because that shouldn’t have even happened in the first place. I was totally fine with the bridge but i am still unnaccepting of the alt timeline and the mishandling of the ontological paradox. and im not moving on that one.

                Like: Thumb up 1

        • Chris says

          I like reading your various points. I usually don’t agree with them, but they make me think.

          Like: Thumb up 1

            • Scott42444 says

              I have a similar problem with the writers building false tension about the whole “Derr, am I in the right timeline?”. Everyone in the audience knew that he was, but the writers just beat to death the idea that he was messing with Olivia. It took forever, and I know people say that this season has had some great character moments but I swear to God (and William Bell) that I wanted to bash my head against the wall after 12 episodes of that crap. That, to me, seemed more like lazy writing.. Also, Olivia dying is more lazy writing. Does anyone think Ana Torv will not be in Season 5? Of course not. So why are they even doing it?. It IS stupid, but Others I just disagree with cortexiphan (which we are guessing about still, technically) being the crappy part of the problem. They have written themselves into a corner and they have to use 1 of the Big 3 (that I mention above) to get out of it. Either…
              1. Almighty cortexiphan
              2. Almighty machine (but that is soooooo Season 3)
              3. Almighty Observers

              Like: Thumb up 3

            • Alt Chris says

              Does the season 4 reboot/amber timeline bother you guys at all? Or is it just me? As far as I can see, only Peter and (since regaining her S1-3 memories) Olivia are what I would consider ‘Ours’. The remaining characters are still the Amber/Reboot timeline versions of themselves. The Walter we are currently watching in ‘Brave New World’ is NOT the same Walter from S1-3. This Walter’s failed in bringing back the alt-Peter from the other side. He died in the lake. Peter never released this S4 Walter from the institution and Walter never shared the season 1-3 experiences with ‘our’ Peter. The same goes for Astrid, Broyles, Nina and everyone who isn’t Olivia. So unless all those guys remember their Season 1-3 selves, the characters we invested in for 3 years are gone.

              Does that annoy anyone else? This show will be 100 episodes long when finished and we will resolve 5 years worth of story with characters we only met in episode 66! (Ep1 of season 4)
              Other than Peter and Olivia, the rest are strangers :(
              Or am i way off? (i hope i am)

              Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 11

              • Liz says

                ” Does the season 4 reboot/amber timeline bother you guys at all? Or is it just me?”

                Is not just you, it bothers me too. I have reserve to this season, just for that reboot reason. Even Olivia isn’t exactly Our Olivia. Before her, there was Amber Olivia, with own stories and individual life. And it bothers me that writers just decide to rewrite over her memories like she isn’t important, and the worst part of it, they didn’t even saw big moral questions over that fact.
                What is more stunning is inability to wrap up the good story in 22 episode/hour, but instead they just opening new holes which probably never be closed (John Scoot, Big Eddie, Shapeshifters…etc). I dislike when writers go in one direction, and on second thoughts: “yeah, we won’t pursue this storyline…we don’t have time…??” Really, don’t have time to tell, like 22h time every week? Yep. Inability.
                But hey, still love Fringe :) and still have faith in season 5 to wrap up all in good manners. I just hope they won’t pull BSG finale moment, especially Starbuck/Olivia parallel. I still hate it.

                Like: Thumb up 3

              • Scott42444 says

                It bothers everybody. Not only that, but they wasted all that time on “Is Peter in the right timeline?”. Either way, it kinda sucks! If he wasn’t in the right timeline, that means we had 13 episodes with people who we don’t care about, and that Peter is trying his hardest to get away from! He is in the right timeline? Excellent! Nobody remembers anything he did! Technically, all those awesome character moments between Peter and EVERYONE EXCEPT OLIVIA were a waste of time because they don’t technically exist anymore.. But, in reality, the only people who really matter in that regards are the 2 main love birds, so it doesn’t really matter.

                Also, they barely touched on one of the only cool parts of being in Peter’s shoes. You know stuff about people and events that you shouldn’t’t. That scene where he made DRJ nervous in the Fringe division was awesome but they barely explored that whole concept. Or, Peter’s situation would be wrong by a detail or 2. He was never right. That would be a cool thing for him to do, tell everyone about the machine. Or, tell Walternate about his life. Anything. But no, they kept babbling about being unfair to Olivia and not being HIS Olivia, and blah, blah, blah

                So yeah, it bothers other people too.

                Like: Thumb up 5

              • Chris says

                I’m torn on my feelings for season 4. On the one hand I miss the weird, close family of Walter, Peter, Olivia, and Astrid. They became such a complete little unit that truly loved and cared for each other.
                On the other hand I’ve like seeing them rebuild themselves into that same unit. They aren’t there yet, but its gotten closer. Hopefully season 5 will recreate the great family dynamic of seasons 2 and 3 and then I’ll be really happy with my 2 shows within a show.
                But part of the above is colored by my intense dislike of the whole first half of season 3, Bellivia, and Babygate. I really only liked the last 3 episodes of season 3. So in my mind anything that gets us back toward season 2 dynamics is good with me.
                Well that was really rambling and I’m not sure if I truly expressed my thoughts well, but take from that what you will.

                Like: Thumb up 2

              • willg says

                I actually don’t mind the reboot. I feel this way about it- Ok the past three seasons have not been useless because without them they would never have led us here to where we are in the story (good or bad depending on your thoughts) and is the culmination of what has happened. I look at the reboot like the season three timeline was what was really meant to happen because even though the observers changed the past and Peter was supposed to die as a child, for the good of the universe of course, he did not stay gone like it was supposedly meant to.

                Who knows exactly why he rematerialized (Insert theory here) but he did and he has stayed here. Maybe the universe is smarter than the observers and he was always meant to be apart of this group. Therefore I think it is one of those situations you see in time travel movies where no matter what you do in the past to change something, the correct outcome will happen no matter what. It will be a different path to get there but some things are meant to be no matter what happens.

                This is how I feel about our characters. Season 1-3 developed our characters family dynamic in a certain way. With Peter removed everyone was obviously different because of their lack of interaction with Peter. However everyone seems to be becoming their former season 1-3 selves with their current interaction with Peter even Astrid and Broyles. This seems to be the balance. Even though Peter was removed or whatever things took a different path but we still end up with essentially the same characters because it was meant to be or destiny or however you would like to say it. These are our characters emotionally.

                I hate to use this example but I find myself continuing to in discussing time travel. In Back to the Future part one, the future is changed at the end because of how Marty changed things in 1955. His dad is cool and rich, and all the other family members are much different physically as well. This was different from the original beginning. Does this mean that Marty and his families whole life is meaningless and did not matter before that trip Marty took back to 1955. I don’t think so and likewise I feel the same about our characters different past. Anyway that are some of my thoughts. I really like this season, even though I will admit the first third or so was slow. I don’t mind alot of the plot holes or even some of the contrivances (like the regenerative abilities of Cortexiphan). The show certainly deserves criticism, this I will not deny. But let us not forget to balance the constructive criticism with some explication of the great points of the show :) One should balace criticism with positive points. Anyway sorry for the long post. LOVE this show and I cannot wait for Fri.

                P.S. is it friday yet?

                Like: Thumb up 5

                • shidey17 says

                  willg, I like your explanation. I pretty much feel the same way. The reboot bothers me – a lot. But I’ve basically told myself I have to deal with it, and I’ve used the same logic as you. I don’t like that I have to do it, but I don’t want to give up on the show, so to me, this is one of the best ways to look at it.

                  Like: Thumb up 2

                  • willg says

                    Thanks Shidey. I just wanted to make the point that I don’t really hate this season like most everyone else is all.

                    Like: Thumb up 2

              • Cortexiphan Kid says

                ”Does the season 4 reboot/amber timeline bother you guys at all? Or is it just me?”
                Trust me, it bothers most people on this site.

                Like: Thumb up 2

                • Alt Chris says

                  The thing that worried me was when (on this site) they had the story about when Pinkner was asked about if the other characters (Walter, Astrid, Broyles etc) would be getting their memories back as we moved toward the end of the season and he said “We’re not telling stories about other people becoming their Season 1, 2, and 3 version of themselves,” “The last couple of episodes are very much our two universes, and then specifically our key characters dealing with the consequences of what David Robert Jones is up to, then Jones fighting back.” ….
                  So does that mean they might do it in season 5? Or they have given up all together? I hope to Science that they haven’t!

                  Like: Thumb up 0

                  • Cortexiphan Kid says

                    OMB (oh my Bell), I hope not! It took them 15 episodes to make Olivia remember, it would be terrible, if they spend the last 13 episodes doing this.

                    Like: Thumb up 0

                    • Alt Chris says

                      I guess they might just need one big event. Maybe the observers might have a hand in it, or they to something that goes against “destiny” or “what is supposed to happen” and they are shaken out of the Amber timeline and remember the Blue timeline, or maybe walter cooks dolphin brain inside a cheesecake at 236º while setting it to vibrate at 5.056 Khz … i dont care as much about how.. just get it done! episode 1 season 5! go!

                      Like: Thumb up 2

              • Darth Kate says

                i pretty much hate the whole thing. which is funny because i distinctly remember defending the show adamantly in the days following the season 3 finale. the plot holes were so numerous and obvious that i was convinced no one would write the plot that way without a really damn good explanation… turns out i can be wrong.

                Like: Thumb up 1

                • Cortexiphan Kid says

                  You want my advice Kate? Just deal with S4, there is only one episode left anyway, and hope, that S5 will be much better than this.

                  Like: Thumb up 2

                    • Surun Tunne says

                      well, the good thing is, if you have no hope for season 5 to be good, you can only be positively surprised!

                      Like: Thumb up 1

                    • willg says

                      What is this the ultimate meaning of this for you? Does this mean the show is done for you? Is there no good left in the show for you at all? Does this mean there is nothing they can do to redeem it for you?

                      Like: Thumb up 0

                    • Cortexiphan Kid says

                      Look Kate, I’m also very unsatisfied with fringe, as it is today, but no damage is unrepairable, no tunnel to dark.
                      Have hope. Always.

                      Like: Thumb up 3

                    • Darth Kate says

                      There are only fourteen episodes left. Ive come this far and im seeing it through to the end. and to be frank i shouldn’t need to explain myself to anyone. what do you even care?

                      Like: Thumb up 2

                    • willg says

                      @DarthKate- No need to explain yourself, you’re right about that. I am not trying to be antagonistic. I care about everybody’s views and feelings about the show on here generally speaking. Just curious to see where you head is at in regards to the show.

                      Like: Thumb up 0

                    • Cortexiphan Kid says

                      ”There are only fourteen episodes left. Ive come this far and im seeing it through to the end. and to be frank i shouldn’t need to explain myself to anyone. what do you even care?”
                      Yeah, I guess we don’t, I’m asking only because I’m curious, and I don’t want to convince you into anything (I might sound, like I am, but that’s not the case).
                      So, I hope your comments will be as critical and open-minded in the future, as they are now.

                      Like: Thumb up 1

                    • LastManInSpace says

                      This whole sub-thread is both adorable and creepy:)

                      I LIKE dissenting opinions on a message board. You might get righteously pissed off at someone once in a while but life in an echo chamber is BORING.

                      Can you imagine if the whole site was just all of us going “OMG Fringe is so awesome 100% of the time”…………..*crickets*

                      Like: Thumb up 5

                  • Darth Kate says

                    thanks guys. i appreciate that the two of you have always been consistently open-minded.

                    Like: Thumb up 2

    • Ian S. says

      The thing with corexiphan has regenerative abilities on a small scale, as Walter said it can heal partially some biological parts, I believe, and it also took quite awhile for the pig brain in the lemon cake it heal. On such a small scale, I can’t see a point where Walter could have even mentioned it, it wouldn’t have made a difference. Susan Pratt and Nick Lane still would have died, just like Olivia in the future. This was the best moment to say it, and it’s a little known side effect for a reason…it’s regenerative on a small scale.

      There are other things in this show that need more lead up, but I don’t think this one does honestly.

      Like: Thumb up 2

    • Cortexiphan Kid says

      Darth Kate
      While cortexiphan is my favorite show’s element, here I have to agree with you. It bothers me a lot, that the writers seems to think, that they can give Olivia every ability they think of, contrary to other c. kids. I know, I know, she is ”the strongest”, but that is still unsuficient. Couldn’t they even bother to think of a plausible explanation? Like, for example, that she got one ability, that allows her to gain other abilities. Kind of Peter Petrelli’s ability replication, or Sylar’s intuitive aptitude. And I know, that they didn’t want everything to look to Heroes like.

      And I also see, that you are not talking just about Cortexiphan, because admit it, season 4 $ucks! Or rather, season 4 plot $ucks, because I also have to admit, S4 had a some exelent episodes.

      Like: Thumb up 2

  21. James says

    Guys, totally off-topic, but when Season Five comes around, we still need to keep ratings up.

    Just because it got renewed doesn’t mean it’s safe. If the ratings drop, Fox can reduce the budget of future episodes which may hamper the quality of Fringe’s final season.

    Keep watching live, the show is not safe.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 10

  22. Blu~Phnix says

    Bell, your one of many doppelganger other universe versions of you, IE. SPOCK, would not approve of your mischief & sketchiness….that is all. & where is Olivia while ya’ll are off in Weirdo Werecupine Park?

    OK, tomorrow is gonna be EPIC!

    Like: Thumb up 5

  23. Gary says

    Do people get this is a tv show and not real life as good as it is. Never come across a movie or show that own’t littered with plot holes for whatever reason whether to speed things along or because of time constraints. Beyond the 45 minutes of fringe exists the real world, enjoy it for what it is, entertainment and make believe it is not at all realistic.

    Like: Thumb up 2

    • SissySiri says

      Gary – Obviously I am only speaking for myself. I have watched Fringe from the pilot on, I love the show, it is different, quirky, filled with nuances and it has a rabid fan base. Because I love it so much when I see something that is not consistent, I notice and I may make a comment. Just like I might do with a personal loved one. Of course we know it is a TV show!! We are having fun being supportive and critical if warranted, doesn’t that go on everyday “in real life?” Nothing is perfect, I know that and it would be boring if it were perfect. What would we write about?

      This show is so unique I think we can all agree on that, it was renewed for a 5th Season against all odds, that says something. It is good to read the other comments because sometimes I may say to myself, wow I was wrong about my initial feelings, that person has a better perspective, so I have learned something. I guess the bottom line for me is I want it to be the best that it can be so I can treasure it, after the last episode ever . . . . . .

      Like: Thumb up 1

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