Fringe Episode 3.10 The Firefly


“FRINGE FRIDAY” PREMIERES WITH A MELODIOUS RING WHEN WALTER FINDS HE’S IN TUNE WITH HIS MUSICAL HERO

FRIDAY, JANUARY 21, ON FOX

Christopher Lloyd (“Back to the Future”) Guest-Stars

In the midseason premiere, which kicks off a string of six all-new episodes of FRINGE, an Observer makes contact with the Fringe Team to help rectify a mistake. Meanwhile, Walter befriends Roscoe Joyce (guest star Lloyd), keyboardist for Walter’s favorite 1970s band, “Violet Sedan Chair.” Walter will learn the real reason the band broke up, and realize that the lives of these two men, who have never met before, overlap in strange and unexpected ways in the all-new “The Firefly” episode of FRINGE airing Friday, Jan. 21 (9:00-10:00 PM ET/PT) on FOX. (FR 3.10) (TV-14 V)

Cast: Anna Torv as Olivia Dunham; Joshua Jackson as Peter Bishop; John Noble as Walter Bishop; Lance Reddick as Phillip Broyles; Blair Brown as Nina Sharp; Jasika Nicole as Astrid Farnsworth

Fringe 3.10 “The Firefly” Promo

Episode 3.10 "The Firefly" Rating

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  1. Ben says

    The winning streak continues. When Joyce started talking about his son going out on a rainy night, my jaw dropped. It also helps that Christopher Lloyd is a much better dramatic actor than people realize.

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    • Fringie6989 says

      My jaw dropped so many times during this episode. Another fantastic Fringe episode. There was laughter, tears, shock, and many other emotions on my part tonight…awesome awesome awesome!!!

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    • Blind says

      it sound like they were foreshadowing what has already been prophesied on that piece of paper with Peter on it. The only thing is that we don’t know if that paper shows that Peter is going to be killed by the machine. It may just be a little, you know, short term flames… shooting out of his eyes. No biggie.

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      • ApplesBananasRhinoceros says

        —>short term flames… shooting out of his eyes. No biggie.<–

        This is an awesome comment!!

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  2. says

    What a great episode! Christopher Lloyd was a genius! And as always, John Noble!
    I’m a little confused about the ‘father’ comment. Please tell me he was referring to Walter… NOT peter.

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    • robyn says

      I think he’s referring on how difficult it would be for a father to have to let his son die..(fingers crossed thats its NOT regarding something else bout Peter)

      Funny thing is that when the car stopped just right infront of him with his arm up..I thought about him being Boy Wonder :P

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    • says

      Yeah, I’m pretty sure he meant Walter. He has taken a special interest in him and though he can’t empathize with Walter, he can see that it must be hard for him. Kind of like a man can see that a woman in childbirth is in a lot of pain but he can’t really put himself in her shoes.

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    • Pam says

      If this doesn’t mean Peter, then, there is no other reference to the complication with Faux-Livia that Jasika Nicole mentioned

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    • Fringie6989 says

      Gosh it seems like it was directed towards Peter…but I sure hope not!!! Unless it is meant for in the future when Olivia and Peter work it out

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      • lizw65 says

        I think it’s a pretty safe bet that he WAS referring to Peter (whether this was part of Alt-Livia’s “mission”, however, is debatable, as we witnessed her reluctance to go the extra mile and seduce Peter.) I’ve been racking my brain ever since trying to figure out just how the writers will work this; as I mentioned in a much earlier post, unless they plan on making Joshua Jackson into an occasional guest performer rather than one of the stars of the show, they’re unlikely to have him abandon this universe for good to be with her.

        However, I can imagine a scenario in which Walternate has “plans” for the baby, and Altlivia voluntarily returns to this universe as a fugitive, requesting asylum. (Since the Other Side has now synthesized Cortexiphan, it isn’t out of the question that she could do this.)

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      • loveit says

        Is it possible that what Jasika was alluding to – as far as the Peter-Olive-Altliv story – is what is alluded to in the sneak peek? The one where Peter and Olivia are speaking about what seems to be Alt-Liv’s diary or notes. There were all of those pen references in the earlier episodes, so maybe whatever she wrote will be of consequence to one or both of them. Alt-Liv doesn’t have to be physically present to continue to wreak havoc on the P/O relationship…

        I also don’t think that Alt-Liv is pregnant – definitely not part of the plan if she is…she was ‘talked’ into that part of the mission by Newton, not Walter.

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  3. robyn says

    That was a good episode to return with and love how the title plays in with what happens!

    Did anyone pick up on the thing that Jasika Nicole hinted at in the interview? It was supposed to be at the end of the episode but i’m guessing i missed it?

    Not sure if this counts as a spoiler though Jasika talked bout it with Lance Reddick

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    • says

      Basically the Observer is saying that Peter is going to die at some point. And it will be Walter who will be the decision maker regarding whether he will or won’t.

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      • Pam says

        It should mean more than that – why would Lance Reddick say that at first he thought it was metaphorical but, then, 2 or 3 episodes later realized it was literal?? What is metaphorical about letting Peter die? Given the circumstances all of us take it literally – why wouldn’t Lance, then? It must be something else, something that we are all missing?

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        • robyn says

          is that what Reddick was referring to the last thing the Observers say? It is strange he would take as something else…I didnt read his part of the interview or the latest one..i feel like I completely missed something. Cause when the episode ended..I thought, is that it, how is this a big reveal about the love triangle? So many questions..

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          • says

            Jasika said two things in that interview. That the love triangle isn’t over. And then she said we’d get a hint at the very end of the episode. She did not say that they would say anything directly about the love triangle at the end. So I take it as in the eyes of the Observers Peter is going to die or at the very least he will go or be taken back to the other side (which would tie in obviously with Altlivia).

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  4. says

    I just had to laugh at the song playing at the end with Peter and Walter…if I only had a brain…perfect! This episode was so involved in terms of the mystery of what the Observer was trying to accomplish. I couldn’t believe when I looked up and saw that there was only 10 minutes left! And I loved how they tied in the Comic series which gave us some great bakground on this epdisode. And I thought Peter and Olivia were far too comfortable with each other! I was expecting so many more tense and awkward moments. But I was happy to see Peter not giving up. He’s not letting her go.

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  5. BklynBetty says

    Great episode. I am left struggling with the depth of the responsibility/culpability placed at Walter’s door for the chain of events.

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  6. Chris says

    If I only had a brain.
    I just wanted to point out the continued wizard of oz theme that poped up in last seasons episode “Jacksonville”

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    • Alexia says

      it actually happened before in Johari window ,after walter was kidnapped by Newton. He said that he finally had learned to appreciate cowardice and that the lion had a point.
      And the in Brown Betty,he was missing a heart.
      ..If I only had a brain

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  7. Steph J says

    Super episode!

    I also loved “If I only had a brain” at the end of the episode. Perfect.

    Loved the time travel aspect…speaking of time travel and messing up timelines, I just keep noticing Doctor Who references on this show. Tonight it was 3D glasses that could see that which is invisible to the human eye (Season 2 of NuWho, Doomsday). The Observers are time travelers who sort of “keep the timelines straight” and they are *not* human, just look like it (was that a new revelation?). Can’t forget the whole alternate universe with blimps, either. LOL, I’m not saying they’re Time Lords! Ha ha ha! But I think it’s kind of fun…I read somewhere that the writers are Doctor Who fans.

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    • says

      Did Walter say that the 3D glasses were from his friend Dr. Jacoby, from Washington state. Twin Peaks Dr. Jacoby ? The eccentric psychiatrist who collected cocktail umbrellas. Whoa !

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      • Monique says

        I am glad I’m not the only one who heard that and made the connection with Dr. Jacoby in Washington State. Total Twin Peaks reference.

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        • Max Criden says

          That was so cool! The other Twin Peaks reference I caught was the discussion of having a dream that would actually occur 25 years into the future. I think that was definitely a reference to Agent Cooper’s dream in Twin Peaks! So cool.

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    • fedorafadares says

      Can’t take credit for this, but some brilliant fan said it:

      Delicious STRAWWWWWWBERRY-flavored death!

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  8. FinChase says

    Loved the little salute to “Twin Peaks” with the glasses and the mention of Dr. Jacoby in Washington State. A dancing dwarf would have been nice too, but I guess we can’t have everything.

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    • Steph J says

      Thanks for that reminder! that Dr. Jacoby in WA reference was driving me bonkers…I couldn’t put my finger on the reference.

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    • lizw65 says

      And did anyone else notice that their relative positions on the lab floor almost exactly echoed the scene in “Brown Betty”?

      I got the sense that there was a lot more going on in this episode than we were shown–definitely one to re-watch. Unfortunately, it was windy last night and the picture started going wonky about 2/3 of the way throug (it got better), so I missed much of the conversation between Walter and the Observer in the park, for instance.

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      • SF says

        Good points both of you. I thought of Brown Betty, but didn’t get that their positions were the same. I have to admit the very beginning of the first scene with Walter made me think of Brown Betty too!

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        • FinChase says

          In Brown Betty, Olivia has to save Peter’s life by putting batteries in place of his stolen heart.

          Hmm, stolen heart–as in AltLivia stole his heart?

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        • SF says

          Max: When we first go to the kitchen/dining room in Walter’s home in The Firefly, there is the sound of something liquid bubbling and the tubes, and I thought it was going to be another drug scene like the one that opens Brown Betty.

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  9. Mr. Wizard says

    I said it before, But I think Peter got Altiv knocked up while she wass over here.
    ..it may explain the Obsevers criptic “father” reference to Peter just before he shot him with his “air gun”

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    • Fringie6989 says

      Could it be possible that Bolivia getting knocked up was part of her mission? Please Peter, tell me you weren’t that dense….Gosh I hope not

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      • chiquitanikkicita says

        I’m still reading through the rest of the comments, so I’m not sure if someone has already commented on this…

        Did anyone else notice the silhouette of a person holding a child on the graffiti behind the observer (right before he makes his comment about being a father)? I really, Really, REALLY don’t want the storyline to go that way, but I fear it might…

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  10. Fringie6989 says

    SO AWESOME!!! I was on the edge on my seat the whole time. Christopher Lloyd was amazing. My heart broke for Walter when he became aware of how one act can set off a whole string of consequences. I loved Peter in this one too. When he was telling Olivia about his favorite book, I could see how much pain he was dealing with too. And of course, Olivia was amazing as usual…Also, seeing the observers in action was both scary and so cool!! I can’t figure out yet if Walter’s conclusion about why the observer went to that much effort was completely accurate…I feel like there was something more there…I also have a bad feeling that the “father” remark was about Peter, but I hope I am wrong about that

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    • ofb2632 says

      My heart broke for Walter also. I am not really emotional, but when Walter was forced to make the choice, the girl or Peter, i know in my heart he made the right decision. He did not LET Peter die, he chose to save the girl, who would have most definitely died. If Walter knew for a fact that Peter would have died, he would not have give the keys over to Peter.

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      • SF says

        I think the point is that Walter thought Peter was going to die – he was sure of it because he was feeling guilty for causing Roscoe’s sons death, and hearing the connection, I think he was – is – beginning to understand that he can’t stop the inevitable. If Peter is meant to die (and the Observer has made it clear the future is not all set, so that Peter avoided one death may not mean he has to die again, or maybe he does. Talk about suspense!!), then it has to happen sooner or later, or more people – innocent people – will suffer. I think in that moment when Peter had the faith he would be all right, Walter was able to let go enough to let him go. That’s what I think the Observers were commenting on at the end, that Walter is learning to let him go, and doing it once will make it easier again. He showed he can, not that he will, if you know what I mean. The possibility is there. I still think Walter will sacrifice himself if he gets the chance, rather than let Peter die, but that’s in the future too!

        I also don’t think that all the blame is laid at Walter’s door. I think September is carrying some of it too, because his appearance at Walternate’s lab is what set the chain reaction in motion. A question (among a multitude of questions!) is, was Peter meant to die in the AU then? Or, once Walternate missed the cure and Walter was allowed to save him, is the error that Walter didn’t return him? Ok, more questions: are all the Peters on all the worlds dead, which makes our Peter the one living Peter left, and that’s why he’s so important to the Observers?

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        • BklynBetty says

          I agree that September bears some of the responsibility for this particular chain of events. but, I also think about this ‘butterfly effect’ and wonder if responsibility is quite the same thing as culpability. Because of Walter and Peter and the firefly, Bobby died. Not only is that unforeseen – but, it can’t possibly be one-sided. I mean, surely with such a ripple, other people may conceivably have lived precisely because Peter is OH – besides those which he actively worked to help save as part of the Fringe Team. If such is the case – then maybe some kind of balance has been maintained. I don’t know. I haven’t been able to shake this train of thought since 10:00 last night, and it’s probably less than coherent and I have a Christening to get to….

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          • BklynBetty says

            Wanted to add that i didn’t mean that Walter was not culpable for the direct results of his actions – such as the soft spots and the decay of the AU. I’m was just refering to the chain of events in this episode revolving around Bobby and other similar situations.

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            • SF says

              I know, BklynBetty. I didn’t mean that everything rests on Walter’s and September’s shoulders – though, in one sense, everything that has happened since, does, including a whole host of events that we (the characters and us the viewers) don’t know about. I’d like to know what free will plays in this story….because the Observer does say not all futures are set, and choices are still being made that change the futures. Very interesting concept! so much to think about!!

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          • jacksonheights says

            Just another thought. In the alternate world Peter did not catch the firefly so the girl whose father caused the accident where Bobby died did not go missing ie Bobby was not hit by the truck and there are several more albums from the group Violet Sedan Chair. Walter showed Peter the additional albums in the extra scene after last years finale.

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      • Fringie6989 says

        I agree. Walter definitely made the right decision AND it proved he has changed that he would even consider the possibility that Peter might die and still gave him the keys. I think it shows Walter has truly felt the consequences of his actions and he made a conscious effort to right those wrongs by saving her life

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        • Fringie6989 says

          Wow that is interesting about all the Peter’s potentially being dead…that would make sense but makes my head spin to think of it. I agree with what you said about Spetember. It seems clear that he holds some of that blams too. After all, if he hadn’t distracted Walternate, then Walter wouldn’t have had to go over there and rescue Peter, which would lead to September not having to save them both from the lakew….what Alternate Astrid said about it being an endless loop rings true. Its amazing to think how one moment can affect a million other moments…

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        • SF says

          Yes, walter agreed to save the girl’s life at the risk of losing Peter – that was what the Observer was testing him for, what the other Observers didn’t think Walter would do. You’re right, Fringie6989, and that’s what I meant to say but as usual have so much to say about the episode that I leave off my conclusions!! lol

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          • Fringie6989 says

            Lol I understand. I am the same way. There is so much going on and usually what I start saying turns into a completely different path from where I initially intended it to go

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  11. Fedorafadares says

    In the graffiti behind the Observer on the roof of the building, there was the silhouette of a man directly behind him, a woman holding a baby (as teased in a spoiler) but there was also a silhouette if a ittle girl on the other side. Would Peter father more than one child with more than one Olivia? There is more than one of everything, after all!

    I also liked that Peter spelled out that his favorite book was intended for Olivia — the person he knows and loves and has spent two years with.

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    • Gene (moo) says

      I also liked what Peter said. I think he’ll crack her shell soon enough.

      As for the Father comment, I believe he was referring to Walter because it was, after all, a test intended for Walter. Nice catch with the graffiti!

      Side note – Did Olivia give Pete the medicine? She hesitated, right? And then when it cut back to her and Peter, he was better. I probably missed something, but I wanted to throw that out there.

      Dang it’s nice to have Fringe back.

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      • Robert says

        I think the graffiti is way overrated, but on the other hand Fringe is known to contain easter eggs which will only be found by fans who look really closely. But I also think that in the father comment he was referring to Peter, not Walter. Future will tell…

        @ Gene: yes, Olivia gave him the medicine, and it was shown that she injected it into his right leg. What you interpreted as hesitation was rather a desperate look at Peter to check if he was still alive, from my perspective. Think about it: even if Olivia might question if she still loves Peter, she would never want him to die, and therefore never hesitate if there is a way to save him.

        Although at the momentary point of their relationships she might hesitate to go to all lengths necessary to get back to him once again. If Peter finds out that the other Olivia is pregnant and decides to hook up with her again, our Olivia will dump him for good. But this won´t happen I guess.

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  12. Cindy says

    OMG! I don’t want Peter to die! He’s my favorite character! There can’t be a fringe without Peter! =(

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    • SF says

      I know. In between my moments of panicking and dread during the episode last night – Peter! Truck almost hits him! shot by Observer! OMG drinks the brain milk concoction! and that seizure! I think I forgot to breathe during that scene…..in between all the fear for him, I kept wondering, are they setting us up for his death? Or, with the book and September saying there are multiple futures and he can’t see them all, that there is a way for Peter to live, but he (Peter) has to find it himself? I also end up wondering if Walter, in between his moments of guilt, is taking the time to really appreciate that Peter is there with him, and alive. That this episode, like White Tulip, is a riff on faith and God and what our characters believe. I really like that Walter believes in science – and it’s the fact that his idol has had to deal with loss of his son, caused by Walter’s own actions, that gives Walter the strength to let go of Peter a little – a real cause and effect, if you will. While it’s Peter’s philosophy to not believe everything (or anything) that leads him to not believe the Observer and have faith that he will be ok, that moves Walter to trust him. Philosophy trumps science, too.

      The writers are sure setting up a Peter in danger 3rd season, aren’t they? I’ve wondered if he has to go back the AU eventually, to heal the rift. I hope not!!! See, I’m refusing to believe he has to die……

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      • Fringie6989 says

        I agree. I held my breathe when Peter almost got hit by the truck, then again the the observer shot him. I thought I was ok by then (I don’t know why) But then he drank the milk and my heart just stopped the whole time. It was horrible to see the seizure and I think they were preparing us for Peter’s future…which hopefully please please please isn’t that he dies because it wouldn’t be Fringe if he isn’t there any more

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        • fedorafadares says

          Do you think Peter stopped the truck himself? Crazy thought, but maybe his “touch” and gift with mechanical objects extends beyond what we think.

          Maybe just crazy, though…

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            • SF says

              I don’t know, that was such an odd moment and how he was framed – holding his hand up like that, at the same time, nothing he could do. Wouldn’t it be weird/totally Fringe if Peter turned out to be able to change his destiny? Not just choose it, but also create it.

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        • number six says

          It did look like they were preparing us to deal with Peter’s eventual death. Don’t go there, writers, please!

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  13. runpaceyrun says

    The Firefly was well worth the wait. I had so many ‘Oh My God’ moments that i am struggling to remember everything that was contained in this episode! My brain is on overload with all the things the Observer did and said! I need to re-watch this asap. Christopher Lloyd was brilliant in this episode….and he totally looked the part…. EMMY worthy performance! John Noble…well what can i say. He just continues to break my heart when he shows the frail, fractured and damaged side of Walter….another EMMY worthy perforormance! I must admit that i was nearly having a panic attack as Peter began to drink the milk….and then the desperate phone call that followed……i was right there in the lab with Olivia looking for the things she needed to make the anti-coagulant to inject Peter with.
    I was glad that i was watching this episode on my own as i screamed quite loudly when the Observer made the comment ..’it must be hard being being a father’. After i had thrust my heart back into my chest i thought logically about this. It is my opinion that he was talking about Walter or Walternate. After all they have both lost a son…..and the Observer has seen how this loss has effected both men. How it has changed both of them. How it has effected the choices they have made. The Observer has seen Walter change and has noticed how being a father has changed him emotionally. And, as we know, the Observers dont usually experience emotion….so his observation makes sense. That yes it must be hard to be a father. And at the end both Observers talk about Walter possibly having to make the same decision he made in this episode. I have always believed that if a sacrifice had to be made that Walter would offer himself in order to save Peter….something i do not believe Walternate would do. I also think the Observers comment refers to the decisions a parent has to make…and does or would make for the sake of their children.
    Another very poignant episode.
    Happy to see Peter and Olivia trying to talk openly with each other. Awkward as it was…at least they are talking.
    A huge shout out to the Strawberry Milkshakes….. i want Walters and Roscoes recipes. And Walter calling Astrid…’Ashram’…just loved it!
    I really loved this episode….actually i really love every episode of Fringe. It really is the BEST thing on tv.

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    • real1 says

      it was good episode , the observer want to see … if Walter can give-up his son … that mean any thing can change ! .. I mean .. the observer is considering Walter as a reference of every thing , cuz Walter did cross the line and interfere as a God to save his loved one which is Peter , so after all that love .. there was a consequences .. Walter couldn’t deal with the consequences he couldn’t take it more to see how the worlds are changing because of his action , so he changed … he is willing to give up Peter .

      So it’s very important to the Observer to see what Walter did choose , which mean Peter can do the same in the future . the difference is Walter is loving his son , is peter going to love his son too ?

      I like how they are dealing with Peter/Olivia , after all , she is the one which he would like to share with her the rest of the life . if he will rest alive .

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    • says

      Did Christopher Lloyd call Astrid by the wrong name as well ? I thought he called her Kelly at the end. It is funny that she never corrects anyone on this repeated mistake.

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    • SF says

      I agree with everything you say here, runpaceyrun! same here with the heart out of my chest too during the seizure! I’m really glad you said all that about Walter being the parent and how the Observer’s comment is meant for him. I did have a momentary “Oh no” when I thought it meant Peter and AltLiv will be parents, but mostly I think it was for how difficult it is to be a parent as the Observer has seen through both Walters – nicely put, runpaceyrun.

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      • Pam says

        I still dread that the comment was about Peter! September’s observation after looking at Walter is that it is very difficult to be a Parent and he offers that as a reply to Peter’s question “What is going to happen to me?”

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  14. mlj102 says

    An episode like this is the perfect episode to remind me about everything that makes Fringe so brilliant. Just in case I start to forget. I mean, really, I’ve gotten to the point where I have to stop comparing episodes and trying to pick a favorite because they are all up to such a high standard that one episode is essentially just as good as the next. Honestly, I wouldn’t know how to rank this episode in comparison with others. It was fantastic, just like every other episode this year. And last year.

    This episode had such a great feel to it. It had everything: fun humor that made me laugh, the continuation of deep themes that make me think, an intriguing story, phenomenal acting from everyone, progression of the mythology, resonating emotion, memorable moments… Everything. Now all it needs is ratings to match the incredible quality of the episode…

    As for the ongoing debate regarding what Jasika was referring to about a big clue at the end of the episode, I’m not sure what she’s talking about. She seems to imply that it’s subtle, so I’m not sure we can attribute it to one of the Observer’s comments since those are always profound and they are designed to be mysterious and to grab your attention and make you wonder. But assuming she is referring to the Observer’s comment, I think she’s talking about the final comment, about Walter being willing to sacrifice Peter when the time comes. I think (and hope) the father comment is just what it appears to be: an observation about the love Walter, as a father, has for a son, and how challenging it is for him, as a father, to think of letting his son go. And despite that challenge, he managed to do it. I think September was surprised by that accomplishment on his part, so he expressed that. But the comment at the end about Walter proving that he can sacrifice Peter is much more foreboding. I can see how Lance Reddick would read that and think it was meant metaphorically, only to be surprised to find out that it was very literal and that Walter will have to literally sacrifice Peter at some point in the future. She also mentions how the observers, plural, are going to drop a bomb; suggesting that it’s coming from multiple observers, not just September. And the idea that Walter will be asked to sacrifice Peter in a major way definitely qualifies as dropping a big bomb that we don’t fully understand yet. That kind of drama seems much more compelling to me than the idea that alternate Olivia might be pregnant with Peter’s child. Please. Just don’t go there.

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    • BB37 says

      I think the subtlety that Jasika is referring to is the word “willing”. I think the observers needed to to know only that Walter was willing to sacrifice and let things happen.

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      • SF says

        Yes, BB37, I think you are exactly right. The future the Observers envision (which will presumably set everything right in both universes) can’t happen if Walter isn’t willing to let Peter go.

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  15. Tyler says

    This might be completely unrelated…but if theres any Douglas Adams fans youll appreciate this, lol the number on Olivia’s apartment is 2A, which is hexadecimal for 42, which according to The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy is the answer to Life the Universe and Everything

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    • Tyler says

      Quite ironically…after posting this comment i went back to the main page, and guess what, theres now 42 comments on this post…lol…so that was the 42nd comment

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      • Tyler says

        Lol ya thats true too….but she still wants Peter deep down…theres always that thing insider he to drive forward, she doesnt want to appear weak…lolol i still find my comment funny xD..was number 42 as well hahaha

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    • FinChase says

      I think they were showing scenes from future episodes. They’ve done that before. It’s coming, whatever it is.

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  16. Cody says

    This is my speculation: I think Alt-Olivia is pregnant which she got from Peter. I think the observers know about this and that the reason why they needed to know whether or not Walter can give up Peter is because they need to know where he will end up after being the father of Alt-Olivia’s baby. I think Alt-Olivia purposely got pregnant from Peter because she knew Peter wouldn’t go the the alt-universe to be hooked up to the device that will destroy our side.

    I think the little mishap with the milk was accidental because: why would the Observers want to save Walter? I thought Peter was the “IMPORTANT” one?

    I think Peter is the Observers responsibility and that’s all that mattered this episode. Question is: What fate will Peter have after its decided upon Walter whether he goes away or dies?

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    • Alexia says

      “I think the little mishap with the milk was accidental because: why would the Observers want to save Walter?”
      I don’t know.
      I think it was a test,and that they knew Walter would die if he drunk the milk (which would mean September was talking about Walter at the end of Marionette),and the only way to prevent it was letting Peter drink it,but that could only have happened if Walter passed the test. So he sort of saved his own life.
      Now,does that make any sense??? :)

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        • Fringie6989 says

          The only thing I worry about concerning the Bolivia baby possibility is why did they go to the extent of having her and Peter sleeping together? Was it simply to gain Peter’s full trust and in the process, cause Olivia massive pain? Or could it has had more significance to it? Of course, Bolivia WAS reluctant to pursue that particular action which makes me think that that wasn’t the mission set by Walternate? OF course, like someone else said, maybe Newton goated her into it and while it wasn’t part of the original plan, the plan was adapted to suit that need? So many questions, but that is what makes Fringe awesome!

          I tend to believe that the milk incident was a mistake (Peter should have known better anyway after the omelet…) but once again, it could go the other way, that the observers knew that one action would lead to another and it was their goal for Peter to drink the milk. At the very least, I think the observers had a bigger intention with that chain of events than simply saving Walters life…

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          • SF says

            I think they had Peter drink the milk as a way to show Walter to stop trying to be like Walternate, don’t go back to thinking like Walternate, etc. That the way forward is another way, for Walter. He has to find his own way to how to stop Walternate. The more I think about this episode, the more brilliant it is!!! And the point of Peter drinking the milk? The one thing Walter doesn’t want to lose is Peter; it’s the only thing that would let him remember where he’d moved the magnesium (for the cure) was his panic that Peter was dying, and a pointed reminder that going the way of Walternate (thinking like him) is sure death, not just for Walter, but possibly everyone.

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            • BklynBetty says

              SF – First off – I really love your interpretation.

              “The one thing Walter doesn’t want to lose is Peter; it’s the only thing that would let him remember where he’d moved the magnesium (for the cure) was his panic that Peter was dying, and a pointed reminder that going the way of Walternate (thinking like him) is sure death, not just for Walter, but possibly everyone.”

              It is a beautiful and elegant way to read the chain of events in ‘Firefly.’ And, of course as you allude to, the inherent irony is that Walter is attempting to think like Walternate not just to save the Universe(s) – but, to SAVE Peter – (from his ‘destiny’, from the Machine, from Walternate) – whom he almost kills in the trying. If Walter can come that close to causing Peter’s death in his attempt to protect his life – then ‘letting go’ may be the only way to save him (and everybody else as well) – or, as I think you said in another post – being “Willing” to let him go.

              Instead of becoming more like Walternate, he must, as you say, find another way forward-moving further away from who he was before his surgery or who he might have become without it. He must do what Walternate has been unable to do in ‘letting go’ of Peter. Just as our Walter has been clinging to Peter, so too has Walternate been unable to give up the ghost. Even if most of what Walternate has done has been to save his universe, even if he believes that Actual Peter has to be sacrificed – a lot of the emotion behind his determination is rage over Peter’s kidnapping. Walternate needs to let go of the Peter that Was or that Might Have Been and his rage if he is to play a part in the healing of their Universes.

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          • runpaceyrun says

            Peter drinking the milk….was, in my opinion, to ensure that Walter remained alive.Yes, it was accidental..but it was still a part of the chain of events that i feel were all directed towards Walter. During most of the episode Walter was motivated by fear for his son…fear that his son would die. So his thinking and his actions at this time were motivated by that fear.

            When the Observers orchestrated the chain of events i feel it was meant to help Walter let go of this ‘fear’. With fear not motivating his thoughts and actions…he can move forward, think with greater clarity and help Peter and the Fringe team with the vacuum device.

            Perhaps the Observers could see that if Walter became consumed by simply not wanting to lose Peter again…..then he would become totally incapable of helping to save ‘Our World’..and Walter is just as important as Peter is as far as the device is concerned (imo). If he was simply motivated by this single fear he may become a clone of Walternate…..motivated, perhaps, by the wrong thing. I also think that the chain of events were meant to help Walter realise that he has to let Peter decide what is the right path for him.

            To me, it now seems that Peter and Walter walk side by side…facing this dilemma together. Rather that Walter standing in front of Peter trying to protect him, but preventing both from moving forward at all.
            This was the ‘course correction’ that the Observers needed to see.

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            • SF says

              BklynBetty: Those are excellent observations! Exactly what I was thinking too, though I hadn’t gotten as far as Walternate because I’ve given up hope on him. He may surprise us yet, but I do not pin anything on him. Walter is the source of the pain in the universe, and I think this episode is showing us that the Observers think he is the cure, also.

              runpaceyrun: You and BklynBetty make excellent observations!

              “When the Observers orchestrated the chain of events i feel it was meant to help Walter let go of this ‘fear’. With fear not motivating his thoughts and actions…he can move forward, think with greater clarity and help Peter and the Fringe team with the vacuum device.”

              I really like how you talk about how fear was leading Walter up to now- indeed, since his Peter’s death, fear has been leading him all these years. Now he has been shown others who also grieve – Peter Weller’s character in White Tulip specifically, and Christopher Lloyd here – I think the acceptance of loss and grief by Lloyd’s character (sorry I’ve forgotten the name! I need more tea) helped Walter to see what he should have done so long ago. But, if he had done that, Peter would be dead on both worlds, and I don’t think the Observers wanted that either. So maybe Lloyd’s character is showing what Walter has to learn now to do – let go of Peter. Accept.
              I also think this might apply to Walternate – the idea of the fear motivating him. Yes, he’s angry, terrifically angry. But maybe we’ve been looking at this all wrong, and underneath that Walternate is scared because his world is about to be destroyed and there’s only one person that he is letting himself believe can save it – and that’s his son Peter. How sad is that? That a great and brilliant scientist is going by the prophecy of the machine only to save his world, when he could have been trying to find a true cure? I think that that’s what I hold against Walternate, because Walter of course couldn’t know that his actions were destroying another world. He knew it was possible, his lab assistant and warned him, but he didn’t think it would. Walternate could have been actively trying to find a way to reverse the change of physics…..I wonder what Bell told him,that Walternate focussed on Shapeshifters for so long? See, Walter and Bell saw those shapeshifters and the other universe before Peter was kidnapped, that’s what made them experiment on Olivia et al, build the mirror to the other side……did Bell actively stop Walternate from developing a way to close the breach between worlds? Sorry, I’m meandering, but the thing with Fringe is it leads to so many other considerations and ideas!

              “To me, it now seems that Peter and Walter walk side by side…facing this dilemma together. Rather that Walter standing in front of Peter trying to protect him, but preventing both from moving forward at all.”

              I really like how you also say Walter has to get out of Peter’s way, so they both can move forward. I agree with you too when you say that Walter is equally as important as Peter in solving the dilemma of saving both universes. I have always thought that Olivia’s decision to save the life of Walter back in Grey Matters was going to be crucial later to everything, and nothing so far has made me reconsider this! Walter does know the answer, somewhere deep inside him, and it’s not in the part of the brain that he cut out, it’s in a deeper part that’s tied in with love.

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              • BklynBetty says

                “Walter does know the answer, somewhere deep inside him, and it’s not in the part of the brain that he cut out, it’s in a deeper part that’s tied in with love.”

                RunPaceyRun: I like where you are going with this.

                SF: Again. Lovely. If the ‘third way’ is tied in with love – then it is tied in with Peter – certainly for Walter whom has his heart tied in completely with Peter.

                If Walter is motivated by Fear and Guilt, and Walternate is motivated by Fear and Rage – both of them seem to see nothing beyond the prophecy. Walter sees Peter’s death and Walternate sees the restoration of his world – but, their fears prevent them from seeing beyond the narrow scope of what they believe the prophecy to mean. ‘The boy is important,’ – but, maybe not for the reasons that they suppose – as some kind of tool or cog in the machine. Another comment referred to the idea that Peter’s importance may lie in what he means to Walter – maybe that’s true, maybe Walter’s love for Peter will be what enables him to see a solution beyond the ‘prophecy’. Then again, maybe it’s somehow even more than that – or larger than that. What Peter must represent – with his amazing heart (thank you, Brown Betty) – means that Peter (or what he represents) is important not only to Walter – but, somehow, to the world(s).

                SF: Touching on Peter Weller in ‘White Tulip’ and Roscoe Joyce in ‘Firefly’ – we are witnessing two very different kinds of ‘acceptance’ in these episodes. In WT Weller’s character – spends all of his time seeking a second chance, plays with the lives of others (even if he believes they are not ‘permanently’ dead) eventually accepts that his fiancée cannot be saved, however, he chooses to die with her – to not move forward. In Firefly, Roscoe who was never looking for his ‘second chance’, who believes implicitly, as a man without much science might, that you are not supposed to get second chances – takes his with all it’s limitations (it was over almost immediately) and re-awakens from his grief and rediscovers himself and his music and IS able to move forward. If we add ‘Midnight’ to the mix – we get another outcome – that of self-sacrifice in order to avoid or reverse the lost of a loved one. A progression of ‘letting go’? A foreshadowing of all the different paths Walter might take should something happen to Peter? I don’t know.

                As for the early visions of the Shapeshifters – I am anxiously awaiting the answer to that mystery.

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  17. lena says

    what if september is trying to hint at walter now willing to sacrifice his son? what if this is all about convincing walter so he would act differently if he could return to 1985? so nothing would be real at all. well, i know, real is just a matter of perception but that would be tremendous…

    arg, I want a strawberry milkshake!

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    • fedorafadares says

      Huge idea! Now that Walter is fully realize the consequences of his actions, I wonder if he’d sacrifice his Peter time today to prevent all the destruction?

      As we saw in “White Tulip,” the one who time travels is still conscious of the version of reality he is trying to change. Walter would have to make a conscious sacrifice in order to change the world.

      …need more coffee now!

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  18. Lila says

    Yiiikes I wanna watch!! But sadly, I’ll have to wait a little more to download the episode, but from the comments it seems a really great episode! Thanks for commenting guys (spoiler addicted person)! ;D

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          • fedorafadares says

            I don’t know. Maybe the distinction between human and people is the ability to experience emotion. Maybe September (and August) were becoming people because of this ability.

            September’s acknowledgment that it must “be hard” to be a father shows a consciousness. Though maybe he’s not feeling it, he’s just observing difficulties as data.

            Interesting to think about.

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  19. Alt-Lex says

    wooohaaaa =) great episode!

    I still think about the comment “drop the bomb” from Jasika. I think it was the milk bottle with a “yellow” cap on it. We often seen glass balls shattering which stands for earths, so in my opinion it maybe symbolises that peter was responsible for getting the worlds shatterd and left only the yellow cap => a third world. that could be done by using the machine (direct way) or maybe like lena above said by dieing/living further on the other side by not taking from walter. so many thoughts run through my head and i hope i expresses they as good as i can. :)

    directly to the episode: it was really great to see that they uses their animated little series to explain what happend to roscos son. so we think they gonna “re-animated it”, they done! :) (for my shame, i watched the whole animated episodes just a seconds ago, when i realised that they where tied so strong to the tv episodes)

    an who the hell was meant by “it was hard to be a father”. i think it could be Peter, Walter or both. I really don’t have a clue :S Surprises coming… and until now, i coonot wait to read roco’s observations, i love to read it :)

    so, everybody, lets buy a strawberry flavored milk lean back an relax :) its getting better and better :)

    greetings from germany,
    Alt-Lex

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  20. says

    This is another fantastic episode! Hats off to cast & crew, the writing staff, director and TPTB. It has it all, stunts, action, suspence, the shooting, a bit of romance, strong storyline, and so on, and so on.

    I liked the autumn leaves in the hospital at the beginning, and the Observer and Walter wlakingin the park discussing autumn halfway.

    And who needs keys by the way? Certainly nót the Observer; that was wáy cool!

    And what about the ‘hint’ that Jakisa spoke about earlier?
    My guess: the house-shot. It refers to another great 90′s tv-series ‘MillenniuM’ also created by Chris Carter, which starred Lance Henriksen as former FBI-profiler Frank Black. That must have been the same house.

    I really hope we will see Roscoe Joyce again in a future episode, i loved to see Christopher Lloyd in action again Also Michael Cerveris as the Observer must have had a blast of a good time with this episode.

    Very well done, and now i’m going to see it again. :)

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  21. number six says

    Other than the strange quick arrival from Walter and Astrid right after the crash, this episode was perfect. I have no coherent thoughts other than: my tear ducts hurt and that I love John Noble.

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    • KLA says

      Number 6– I thougt that odd too, even though Peter told Walter that they were a few blocks away. Also I need to rewatch, but I though that Astird was driving and if so, how did Walter get the car keys??

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      • number six says

        I noticed that, too, but Astrid could have given him the keys, right after they got off the car. Small and unimportant details, though. The rest was perfect.

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      • RoughDiamonds says

        I don’t think it would be a stretch that after all the mishaps (a la “grey matters”), Astrid just has a set of keys herself to the car/house. She’s basically another caregiver for Walter as is Peter.

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  22. says

    It can’t be a co-incidence that extrapolating outcomes from events is exactly what the villain in “The Plateau” could do. His accelerated thinking is what the Observers do, and it corresponds to the weakening of his emotions, and the fact that he could finish his sister’s sentences, as September can. The Observers are the next step in human mental evolution, but it makes them less human. Their dulled taste buds are a metaphor for their dulled ability to feel, to be affected by emotion. Are they the First People, having evolved past regular humanity? Are they our future as a species? The “Next People?” Was the child in season one a human child who’d made the evolutionary leap to Observer, or one of their children who’d been lost or misplaced? There’s no way the similarities to “The Plateau” are an accident.

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      • SF says

        I agree, good points to think about the Observers, John Roy. I know on this site there have been discussions (many!) about who the Observers could be, First People or our descendants. It could go either way – or they could not be human at all! – but you certainly have made a very good case for the Observers to be our descendants, which is what I first thought they were when we saw them back in S1.

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        • Pam says

          Great observation! It is very likely that the observers are the next stage in human evolution and they have been visiting history to see where something went wrong so that they may course correct and have a better universe to live in!

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  23. says

    Also, Peter’s impregnating Alt-Livia, so I’m pretty sure the Observer’s “father” comments are the bomb dropped that’s meant to be taken literally and pays out later on.

    Also, Peter will now have the same personal reason to save the alt universe that Walter had to save him.

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  24. Peanut says

    I’m getting a vibe from this episode that makes me think of the biblical story of Abraham & his son Isaac. God requires Abraham to sacrifice his son, but at the last minute, God provides a ram instead so Isaac is spared; it is a test of Abraham’s trust in God. It seems to be similar to the Observer’s testing of Walter tonight. Of course, the situation of sacrificing Peter is not over yet. Well, there’s (really) dead & then there’s Fringe (sort-of) dead, as I say, so Peter could just be moving on to become another life form in the context of the show. Could complicate things for him & Liv though.

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  25. Peanut says

    Peter hits his head in the car accident.

    Peter gets zapped by September.

    Peter drinks Walter’s tainted milk.

    Maybe they should put Wonder Boy in a Kevlar suit & protective helmet–& keep him out of the lab. Talk about being accident-prone!

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  26. alice says

    Did anyone else notice that towards the end, the graffitti in the rooftop scene is completely reversed and the landscape is different once Olivia turns back to look at Peter. It happens after Olivia goes up the ladder -it’s subtle and quick but when she turns back to Peter the scene is a mirror image…Peter is even laying in the opposite direction and the doctor with the spoon is opposite. It’s really curious to me if this means anything since there has been a lot of buzz around the fringe world turning upside down. Maybe Lance means that the mirror is somehow literal in relation to the story??? Sorry but if it turns out to be the father comment I quit.

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    • Blind says

      let us not be too quick to quit on the show! For every thing that the creators/writers get wrong in this show they will get 100 things right.

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    • JaneDoe says

      Yeah, I noticed that too…. they even go up another ladder- the graffiti wall is blue to the left when Olivia climbs up. But when the Observer stands with his back to the wall you see no blue color on that wall.

      I even think the graffiti of the black sillhouettes looks suspicious. Like added to the scene, don’t you think? You cannot make out the bricks as clearly as in the other grafiti pictures. I guess the sillhouettes were put there on purpose.

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        • alice says

          I’m so excited someone else thought the graffiti was important. I’ll have to re-watch for the ladder difference. Maybe this is a big clue since if you blinked you would definitely miss it?

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  27. Megan says

    With the Observers statment about being a father, I really hope he was referring to Walter. I just don’t know how I would react if he was talking about peter/altivia. I trust that the writers would do the storyline justice and not turn it into a Maury episode, but still…a baby?! I just I don’t think a baby is what this show/story needs. Just in opinion. This was a very good episode, so glad this show is back!

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    • Peanut says

      This is “Fringe.” Think old-man baby. Think Rosemary’s baby. Babies on “Fringe” would probably not be normal babies. Yikes!

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          • real1 says

            OR “special” Peter + “normal” BOlivia ???

            Well , according to s1ep2 .. we do have “special” man + “normal” woman = baby not baby ;)

            Just I would like to find way to deal with what will happen and I have faith in the writers .. I don’t think they will ruin every thing .

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  28. Browncoat Whit says

    The Dr. Jacoby reference got screams of delight here at our house — yay for alternate universes!

    The whole business with Olivia receiving the book was wonderful! I really like how it adds some depth to the whole awkward situation. Olivia’s so devastated that Peter didn’t know her and Altivia apart. Yet she’s clung to the perfection of her Projection Peter fantasy, who of COURSE would have told her and her alternate apart after one deep look into their eyes. The real Peter is just a flawed guy — if it were an alternate Peter, who’d come to her universe in a similar experience (i.e. the promise of starting a romantic relationship), would Olivia have been able to tell the alt-Peter apart from “her” Peter? I don’t think so — because this episode shows us that she doesn’t know the “real” Peter well enough to know what his favorite book is, or why it’s important to him. She’s never made that effort — instead, she’s been so comfortable with Projection Peter that when the Real Peter first tries to explain the book to her and make that connection, she rejects him outright. I’m so very glad we see her reconsidering that rejection and taking an interest in the book later in the episode — there’s hope for Olivia & Peter yet!

    (Provided, of course, that he doesn’t become bombfodder… or hasn’t knocked up Altivia and ports back to the Other Side to make cute little uberchildren with Altlivia… Horrors horrors horrors! The Fringe storytelling team has been doing such a FANTASTIC job, I just have faith they won’t jump the shark of us in that way…)

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    • SF says

      I like what you said about the book, and what it shows about how much Olivia knows Peter, Browncoat Whit! I had just written a note to myself about it to post about it when I was done reading all these wonderful comments. So you saved me the trouble! I think it was so clever of the writers to show what Peter has said to Olivia all along through S1 and 2: she has never taken the trouble to know him. She didn’t even know what his favourite book was! So finally, at long last, when Altliv goes where she has not, Olivia starts to let him in and get to know him. i like how you describe that she reconsiders her first reaction – and how Peter keeps trying. I really think they do belong together, though they have a long way to go to really know each other, and now they both know it. How cool is it that it’s a book that brings them together? Speaking as a complete bookaholic, totally cool!!! I really like that it’s a book about Peter’s philosophy. Finally we are getting to know him!! Interesting that we are getting to know Peter as Olivia gets to know him (I still think we are seeing this show through her eyes).

      How poignant was the moment when Olivia says to Peter that she feels like they had conversations that she wasn’t part of? that she feels like Rip van Winkle? I really like that she let herself be emotionally open to him there, and he to her. He has been the one to know her, as much as she let him, over the past two years – he was so right when he said that. But, we now know that neither of them knew each other enough to know the real person from the perceived one.

      I love this show! Fantastic, fabulous writing!!!

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    • Pam says

      Yeah! Totally! Just as how Olivia had projection Peter (her version of perfect Peter), Peter got very comfortable with this image of a cheerful, easy going, dare-devil without a purpose Olivia. Both of them didn’t know each other very well, so, filled up the gaps with their own / alternate versions of the other that they liked! Good point!

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    • BklynBetty says

      “The whole business with Olivia receiving the book was wonderful! I really like how it adds some depth to the whole awkward situation. Olivia’s so devastated that Peter didn’t know her and Altivia apart. Yet she’s clung to the perfection of her Projection Peter fantasy, who of COURSE would have told her and her alternate apart after one deep look into their eyes.”

      I agree. When Olivia asks why it’s his favorite book, Peter says, “Because it talks about not depending on other people for answers – that you can only find the answers in yourself”

      I see this as a direct reference to Projection Peter. A reminder to Olivia that that wasn’t actually Peter giving her the answers – it was herself. That Projection Peter wasn’t ‘real’ and that it is, perhaps, unfair to compare actual Peter to the perceived infallibility of the Peter that she imagined/manifested.

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  29. Andrea says

    I think Bolivia is pregnant with Peter’s baby. And the phrase “be a better man than your father” become makes sense. Fringe rocks!

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  30. Isa says

    Another great episode! I’m so terrible curious about the ratings now…

    About the episode, I really like how they’re dealing with Olivia/Peter. I loved how Peter told her the book was meant to the Olivia he knew from the last couple of years. They will be together eventually! Unless Bolivia is pregnant… oh, no, don’t do that us! Don’t go there!

    A lot of misteries regarding the observers and I should watch the episode again, but one thing that called my attention immediatelly: Walter saying out loud that the observers are not human. Hmmm…

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    • real1 says

      Even if Bolivia is pregnant , that’s not mean he will be with her , just as how the divorce , but Peter wasn’t in love with her .. herself , he was in love with Olivia not Bolivia , but I think it’s Olivia who will broke all over again !! I just I wish P/O will have something before Bolivia appearing .

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      • Isa says

        I don’t know, that would be just too much for Olivia to take.

        Anyway, I don’t think is a good thing for the writers to do that. It would be just lame. So, here’s hoping Bolivia won’t be pregnant… for the sake of the show itself.

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  31. Isa says

    Fox is saying (on twitter) Fringe hit 1.9/6 of ratings among Adults 18-49, #1 in its time slot and better than the previous episodes I don’t how many viewers though.

    That’s awesome news, guys!

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  32. Robert says

    Really good episode, leaving us (once more) wonder about the true intents of the observers. Although we know that they usually don´t interact with the scenario they are watching, they certainly try to make sure that certain events have a specific outcome. Their subtle yet complex ways to do so are quite fascinating, and this episode made me reconsider the whole plot which lead us to this very moment:

    We know that back then they decided that Peter must survive, no matter what, and no matter which Peter. Well, why do you think they did that? One aspect is this doomsday device which can only be activated by Peter, and the upcoming episode will tell us more about it. But another aspect is the impact which fatherhood can have on somebody. I think in “The Firefly” it is shown quite well how Walter could have ended up if he actually had lost Peter in the past – maybe he would have given up his interest or at least his confidence in science, just like this keyboarder gave up music after losing his son.

    What was it exactly that the observers tested? I think it was about a leap of faith in either the observers´ or Peters decisions, and letting go even if the outcome might be hazardous for Peter. Just remember Walters reluctance to even allow Peter examining this part of the doomsday device some time ago. Considering that the device is probably somewhere at Massive Dynamics now, and that Walter is the CEO, a similar leap of faith will be necessary soon to allow Peter getting close to the device. The “old” Walter would try everything to protect Peter in almost a selfish way. The “new” Walter might have changed, having more trust in Peter and the observers, which would allow them to pursue their plans.

    What I like most about Fringe is that it has a really intense yet never obvious plot. You will never be able to guess what happens next. And there is no black and white – someone who is supposed to be a good guy can act selfishly anytime, another one who is supposed to be a bad guy can have good intentions after all. Everybody, even a “villain” lives in an emotional world of his own, where his decisions make perfect sense.

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    • NF says

      I think you’re spot on with the “leap of faith,” but I also think a big part of Walter’s test (i.e. growth) is truly accepting his past and future – accepting his guilt and remorse – and realizing that, for him, now the best action may be inaction.

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    • Aimee says

      What do you all think of this: September is banking on Walter being willing to let Peter go. I don’t think that he has truly considered the wild card of Olivia being the one NOT willing to let Peter die.

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      • real1 says

        I was thinking why September was looking to Olivia and guiding her to where Peter was at the ground , …….. :)

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        • Aimee says

          The Observers must have blinders on. Olivia risked life, sanity and brain for Peter. I guess they thought she’d hate him for his mistake. Heh, seems they may be wrong. I’m betting Peter’s seizure scene was not the parallel to the scene from Brown Betty of Olivia saving Peter’s life.

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      • Isa says

        That’s an interesting thought, Aimee!

        I’m pretty sure Olivia will save Peter again soon. Just like Brown Betty showed us before. And that will bring them together even more. Their relationship is essential to the plot! :D

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  33. brokor says

    This episode has been a revelation to me.
    The last 2 seasons have had us believe that Peter is the most important person on earth for some reason. Seeing how the keyboardist lost all interest in music after his son died, i am confident that after all Walter was meant for great things and keeping Peter safe and all that was just a way to make sure Walter kept on experimenting and studying the unknown. Maybe in order to operate the device, Walter will have to let his son die, sacrifice him in some way. But the thing is, walter will be the one handling it. The leaflet with the burning eyes etc was just a precaution for Walter about what’s coming. After all, stories love characters given a choise and making the hard one, “the road not taken”.
    i believe the observers are just teasing Peter so that his father will rise to the challenge. His role in this is important but he wont singlehandedly destroy the world as we have been lead to believe.
    oh and i dont think the father comment was meant for Peter but it would be awesome if Faux-livia was actually pregnant. but for the sole reason of tormenting Peter. i love me some tormented souls ^^
    english as a socnd language sucks btw -_-

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    • Robert says

      Yes, that is quite exactly what I am thinking, too. Sure, Peter is a smart boy, but it is Walter who is the real genius. He is also the most interesting, complex and lovable character in the series, at least from my point of view. And since Peter is the most important person in Walter´s life, it is only logical that he had to survive no matter what, at least until a certain point or breakthrough is reached.

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  34. Andrea says

    This is a lame question, but what is the background tune at the beginning of this episode (The Firefly). Is it from a game show or what? I remembered it over a year ago, but don’t know what it’s from. I was amazed it was in this episode of Fringe.

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    • says

      That used to be on sesame street when I was a kid. These 3 little cute bird-like muppets would pop up with the “Do do do do do” and then this bigger gruff looking muppet would pop up with “Bah da bah da!” It brought a huge smile to my face when I first heard it!

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    • fedorafadares says

      I remember it from Sesame Street as kid in the ’70s, but ‘Manha, Manha” was also covered by the band Cake a few years back.

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  35. pacey bishop says

    Looks like that Violet Sedan Chair album might actually be real, judging by Walter’s shirt at the end of the episode! The face on his shirt is just like the one on the cover of Seven Suns.

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    • Robert says

      Many references to Walter´s past refer to our real past, and I love that; especially the shameless references to experiments with psychedelic drugs, and the fact that the writers manage it to sneak liberal ideas and memories of them into the series every once in a while. For example, do you recall this episode in which Walter talks about Timothy Leary visiting his lab? Awesome.

      What a shame that almost all great minds or musicians from the era of “young Walter” are either deceased by now, or would demand too much money for a guest appearance in this show. It would be soooo cool to patch some “real” people into the plot, if you know what I mean…

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  36. says

    I’m thinking about this whole possible pregnancy thing and I keep thinking there’s no way because it obviously wasn’t part of Altlivia’s mission and because who, in this day and age, goes into an intimate relationship with someone without considering birth control. The only way I can see it happening is if somehow in the alternate universe, they have universal mandetory birthcontrol that everyone is aware of so no need to ask about it. Altlivia wouldn’t know that birth control over her is a choice. That’s the only way I can think that this would make sense.

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    • Robert says

      While it might not have been part of her mission, in the last scene when we saw her she stated that it was a mission at first, but then she developed feelings for Peter. Maybe this was only a cover-up explanation. Maybe she got carried away. Maybe Walternate collected DNA samples from Peter and artificially impregnated the alternate Olivia against her will. In the Fringe Universe, almost anything is possible.

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  37. Tammy says

    Love Firefly! I could probably write a book but won’t I’ll keep it short and sweet….

    The father reference by Observer…
    I think it was reference to Walter and not Peter. This was a test for Walter with the bonus being if he passed he wouldn’t die. If Walter had been around to drink the milk he would have died, Walter admitted that much to Peter. The test was to see if Walter would be willing to let Peter go even if it meant he would die. Old Walter went to the other side to save Peter because he couldn’t let him go. Plain and simple the test was to see if Walter had learn that he can’t be selfish and his actions have consequences for everyone so in that moment he had to decide to let Peter go even though he (Walter) believed Peter was going to die or be taken by the Observer..Walter thought he was going to loose Peter but for the greater good was willing to let him go.

    Peter may or may not die in the future because of the machine but either way The Observers were going to get what they wanted/needed which was getting Walter to let go. If Walter didn’t let go he would have drank the milk and died..which he wouldn’t be around to hold/sheild Peter but Walter choose to let him go which mean he will be more willing to let him go in the future so Peter can do whatever it is he needs to do.

    As for the subtle P/O Jasika was referring to..I think it was the book..and yes Altlivia was involved she is the white elephant in the room with P/O. At first you see Olivia rejects the book and everything it stands for..just for the simple (not really simple) reason that it was meant for AltOlivia. But then you get to hear Peter give the book to her and explain his reasons and lets her know it was meant to her..and what happens…she rejects it again. But in the end with no words being exchanged you see her look at the book, takes the book, and have an actual intererst in the book..but more importantly what it means to Peter. So it shows that there is hope for P/O to move pass AltOlivia and what it means to her. What we saw between these little exchanges between P/O is a mutual love/care, respect they have for eachother. You see Olivia pushing Peter away and Peter being understanding and giving Olivia her space/time but also letting her know she is the one he wanted and everything between him and AltOlivia was meant for her. and finally at the end you see Olivia taking a small step towards mending or creating her own relationship with Peter. She could have continued to ignore the book, she didn’t have to pick it and she didn’t have to ask about it but she choose to.

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    • KLA says

      Tammy- I agree with you in that the reference Jasika was referring to had to do witht he book and the conversation around it. The stuff with the observer happened with almost 15 minutes to go, so that cannot be considered the end.

      One thing I would have liked to have seen was more of a reaction from Olivia when Peter stopped seizing. I guess I wanted her to cradle his head and cry silently so he did not know how she really feels about him. Something just seemed to be missing there for me, and perhpas that was it.

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      • Fringie6989 says

        I was expecting more of a reaction from Olivia after she saved Peter too…I guess that was just left to the imagination

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        • SF says

          “finally at the end you see Olivia taking a small step towards mending or creating her own relationship with Peter”

          Yes! exactly! A real relationship this time (are you listening, Roco???), based on their real knowledge of one another, not only their perceptions (which are still part of any relationship anyway). I was so happy Olivia did that!!!

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  38. Robert says

    There is so much speculation about one of the main characters of the show going to die, or going to make radical choices concerning his future life. But it was announced that for the next couple of years the plot is covered – why kill a key person who is appreciated as a favourite by a solid fraction of the fanbase?

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    • SF says

      Well for me I’m just spotting all the clues/tension/set-up to the danger Peter is being placed in now, and what it might mean. I certainly don’t think/do NOT hope or expect Peter to be killed off! He’s an integral part of Fringe and to Walter and Olivia. Because I try to avoid spoilers, I haven’t caught up with the new producer interviews since Christmas so thank you for the heads up that the ‘main character’ (Peter or not) will be around for a while! It still doesn’t change the suspense for me, because this is Fringe and just about anything is possible.

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      • Robert says

        Yeah, you´re right. Especially the part about “anything is possible”. My statement about none of the main characters being removed from the series anytime soon was kinda sophisticated speculation. But that does not kill suspension, since we have already seen two of them disappearing into the parallel universe, and who knows what will happen to anyone of the crew the next time?

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      • Robert says

        Oh, and by the way: the 7 year plan is the best case scenario, depending on how well Fringe does in the friday night timeslot. Don´t take anything for granted, just hope for the best. Also, reading interviews does not kill the suspension at all, because every bit of official information out there is rather a teaser instead of a spoiler.

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        • SF says

          I know! Although Jasika and Lance specifically have been accused of having loose lips, so I do try to avoid them mostly! I really only want teasers, I love speculating and Fringe lends itself to so much of that! I’ve always thought of Fringe as at least a 5 year show, by the way. It always depended on what the overarching story was, and how far they went with the multiworlds. Pretty much they can go anywhere now, and explore anything, though for me, I love that they are exploring so much story through the three main characters. I wasn’t kidding when I speculated that maybe Peter is dead on every other possible world but ours, since the Observer did say that Peter must live, way back when he rescued them from the water. “He is important”, September said.

          What’s going to be interesting to see is how the show and the characters evolve – already Olivia doesn’t lead quite so much because the story is about the three of them now, not just exploring how she got that way (which was brilliant). I still want to see more of what it means for her, the cortexiphan, and why she of all of the kids, hasn’t been negatively affected by it. Will we meet the other 36 or so cortexitots? I hope so! Especially if the story to come is a real confrontation between the shapechangers on our world (i don’t think we’ve seen the last of them even with Newton gone) and the cortexitots….before we get to Walternate’s end plan with the machine…….see? who needs spoilers when all by myself I can go off on all kinds of speculation??? lol

          I still do peek, though! :-)

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  39. Xochitl says

    “it most be difficult, to be a father.”

    Okay, if alt!livia is pregnant I’m going to kill some people like for real.

    and can I just kill the observer, he did have a point, but really?!!!

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  40. Cortexifan says

    I’m learning to pay more attention to names, with all the anagrams and stuff.
    Walter called Astrid Ashram, which could be changed into Marsha. Don’t know if it means anything, but Ashram seemed unusual, not like Aspirin or Asterix and so forth.

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    • Cortexifan says

      Ashram actually means a religious retreat esp. of a Hindu sage. Just looked it up in the Dictionary. I guess that could go with the religious theme of the episode since they are also talking about Bhudda.

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  41. Owl says

    Well, maybe I’m naive, or just wishful, but I thought the “difficult to be a father” comment was for both Walter and for Roscoe. Obviously, it changed everything in their lives to lose their children. It affected not only their families, but their interests and abilities and motives for everything. The Observer was with Bobby too, and maybe many other parents, and must have at least made an observation that it’s extremely difficult to be a human father, especially when grieving or fearful for the safety of their children. I really hope the writers don’t go with a Bolivia pregnancy theme…that would be too awful and torturous for all the charachters, which is probably why they’ll do it. Sigh.
    Still loved this episode, and can hardly wait for next week. I actually had an easier time watching this episode live on Friday than on Thursday, and I’m hoping the ratings stay up.

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  42. graziaplena says

    Was I the only one who thought that the ‘father’ comment was supposed to be metaphorical, as in ‘isn’t it hard for you, peter, to have to be the responsible, father-like one (for Walter)’? It didn’t occur to me at ALL that it might be about Peter being a father-to-be, but that does seem plausible too.. ::crosses fingers and toes that that’s not the case, ugh::

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    • Peanut says

      I have an even more twisty thought. What if Peter is actually Robert Bishop (or a clone or something), which would make him literally Walter’s father?

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      • real1 says

        I like the idea … then .. where is the red peter ? … walter and Bell did travel to the past … and Robert did die after Walter came to breath … one thing in “white tulip” Walter did receive the message of the white tulip while the sender died …

        If Peter is Robert .. that mean Peter should know every thing not Walter ?

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    • Alexia says

      That would make sense with what Lance Reddick.
      He thought something said was metaphorical but after a few episodes he found out it was literal……lets hope it’ not it.

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  43. TFT says

    I need to read some recap, I didn’t understand the Observers actions at alkl. what experiment was he talking about anyway? Was everything in this episode his experiment? When was Walter willing to let Peter die? What was the girl for?

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    • TFT says

      Allright, I think I know, the Observers saved a girl only to get her involved in a car accident which led to Peter asking for the lab keys, which led to Peter drinking the stuff instead of Walter, saving Walters life.

      But what was Bobby’s father suppoed to do to help Walter?

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  44. says

    I think that Roscoe was a vital catalyst to Walter. He helped Walter in seeing the big picture, in bringing the Observer back into the picture and redirecting Walter to do the right thing, even though Walter knew of the consequences. The cause and the effect. Plus , Walter helped Roscoe snapped out of his catatonic state, remembering the touch and smell of his son, and reestablishing his love of music. Roscoe did seem like a much different person when they brought him back to the nursing home.

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  45. Alt-Lex says

    I just rewatched the episoded and have a new idea what it can be, what Jasika ment. In the end when Walter putting soup into a dish for peter there was a red apple on the kitchen table. and in the next scene from a different angle the apple was gone. Dosnt “Apple” stand for New York and red for the other Universe. So maybe something big happens to New York on the other side. (Remember that Lance say to take it “literally”). Just another thougth i have to share :)

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  46. JaneDoe says

    Just loved the show… I am so addicted to Fringe!!

    I noticed the graphiti behind the Observer as well, but I don’t think anything on Fringe is “coincidence”- and the “be a better man than your father” comment is in my opinion for both Walter and Peter. Oh my god- even the thought of Altivia being pregnant!?? …..
    I love the way Peter is trying to explain himself to Olivia- the book thing and all. I guess they will resolve their issues and in the last episode of this season, when they are finally ready to be with each other- a pregnant Altivia will pop up aaaaaaaaand- Season Finale! and that’s the end of our Polivia again…
    Just imagine Walternate as a grandfather…. oh my gosh!! So if Altivia is fleeing from the AU from Walternate’s plans for the child (even Altivia must want her child to be safe) he will try to get the baby back. And Peter? He will go after the kid… and there the comment kicks in again… “be a better man than your father”… so will he be able to safe the kid by crossing universes? destroy even more?

    I wasn’t happy about the baby idea at first, but if they really go there… can’t wait for epic events regarding both universes!!!!!

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    • augusta says

      Wow JaneDoe…
      That sounds like it would be a fascinating storyline. They would probably do amazing things with it… i would so loathe what it would do to the Peter/Olivia relationship though. i hope that the original fringe team does get some time to regroup before they bring that girl back — end of season sounds good. I hated the idea of Altlivia being pregnant — still do, but your take on it would really ramp up the mythology and the depth of the story… i’m scared that you might be right… sigh…

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    • KLA says

      JaneDoe– Gosh . . what if you are right and the plan all along was for Olivia to get pregnant by Peter. I mean what else did she do over here but find a piece of the machine. Sigh . . . As much as I would hate a baby storyline I am with you and Augusta that if this is where it is going, then Altlivia trying to save the baby and seeking Peter’s help might make a hell-uv-u storyline. Sigh . . .

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      • lizw65 says

        I was thinking the same thing…and that the “be a better man than your father” might be a way of saying that Peter will have to let the child die (instead of, say, bringing it to this universe as Walter did to him. Just a thought.)

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  47. Peanut says

    When Walter sends “Ashram” out for ingredients for the strawberry-flavored death milkshakes, she says that she’s going because she needs to get more COFFEE anyway. Guess the two Olivias have really depleted the lab’s coffee supplies!

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  48. says

    Just a thought:

    if the Observer can travel through time back and forward, and we know whére exactly things went wrong (the Observer rescuing both Walter and Peternate from the ice), then whý won’t he go back to that point in time and this time prevent recuing Walter and Peternate from the ice?

    Sure, it would upset us fans, but neither universe would be harmed in such a way as it has done sofar. IMHO. Just a thought…

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    • Peanut says

      If Walter would improve the diz-ray (however you spell it) machine that David Robert Jones used, he could go back in time & save the original Peter so that we could have both Peter & Peternate. Then we would see if Olivia could really tell THEM apart!

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      • Robert says

        Olivia could tell them apart, since she is able to sense the aura from objects/persons from the otherside, isn´t she? Having such an advantage it´s almost unfair to expect that Peter could do the same (i.e. recognising the wrong Olivia just by looking at her).

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        • Peanut says

          I don’t think that she can see the glimmer most of the time. Otherwise, I think that it would be unnerving for her to have to work with Peter every day!

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      • real1 says

        I think we do have both Peters somehow , in “Peter” we saw the coffin not the body , I was wondering if Walter did really buried his son or he was keeping him somewhere ……

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        • Robert says

          I doubt that. They made a really big deal of the “original peter died as a child” part of story, and Walter confirmed that it is not possible to revive the dead (maybe he already tried this with Peter) – with Marionette being one more proof for this. So it´s quite safe to assume that original Peter is dead and buried for good.

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  49. fridaycoffee says

    NOOOOO BABY!!!!
    I think the silhouette represent Mrs Dunham holding Rachel, the stepfather and Olivia. Next episode clue?????

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  50. real1 says

    I really would like some help on one thing :

    when Olivia was chasing the observer , she looked to Peter and the image was as the mirror …. what the hell is that mean ? … is it mean that when Olivia did jump she did go to another reality ?

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  51. svnsilver says

    Like the general consensus thus far, I have a very negative feeling towards the possibility of Peter being a father. Mostly I feel this way because, the closest explanation is that Fauxlivia would be bearing his child. This idea reminded me of the sickness I felt of this possibility, back when Fauxlivia (or Holivia, thanks for the lol Gene) slept with Peter. But I have to concede, if this were the case, I need to trust the writers on this twist in the story, the same writers I want 5 to 7 seasons of Fringe from.

    I like the theory that Peter may actually be Robert Bishop, through clone or time travel. ‘Course there would need be be a very crafty explanation behind this. Similar ideas crossed my mind, pointedly from the Episode “The Arrival” from Season 1. If I remember correctly the beacon was buried in Robert Bishop’s grave, and Peter unknowingly led the man (of unknown origin) to this conclusion. The giant metal suppository.. erm I mean beacon, is of unknown importance. And was this grave vacant? Who knows? And Peter, is very much a mystery, as several people mentioned we’re learning about him as Olivia is. Before I close my thoughts, a very interesting tid-bit comes to mind. Peter was also able to use the Observer’s gun in episode “August”.
    I’ll close this post now, while my head is spinning :P.

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    • SF says

      This makes me think of the line “The child is the father of the man”, so I looked it up and wow! does it apply to this episode and our comments linking it to Brown Betty:

      “MY HEART LEAPS UP WHEN I BEHOLD” – William Wordsworth

      My heart leaps up when I behold
      A rainbow in the sky:
      So was it when my life began;
      So is it now I am a man;
      So be it when I shall grow old,
      Or let me die!
      The Child is father of the Man;
      I could wish my days to be
      Bound each to each by natural piety.

      Considering all the references to forgiveness and humbleness (which Walter is only learning and Walternate isn’t) in this episode, and in White Tulip, and that Walter in Brown Betty invented rainbows, and Roscoe called Astrid ‘Ashram’ (the commenter was right – a religious retreat) – and that the one who is closest to having no religion is Peter…… What if he is a clone of Robert Bishop? would he be the literal father of Walter? He is in some ways the parent of Walter now…..The things Fringe makes us think of!

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      • svnsilver says

        Wow, very good insight.

        And now to avoid going on a limb and writing a novella of theories, I’m going to rewatch “The Firefly” instead.

        I love this show.

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  52. real1 says

    I don’t think so , she was at the hospital , sure they did so many analyzes for her , but she can in the future ?

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  53. lizw65 says

    “What if it is our Olivia that is pregnant because of some experiments Walternate did?”

    I was thinking that myself, but as he intended to kill her when she “outlived her usefulness”, it doesn’t make much sense that he would have impregnated her with, say, a sample collected from Peter while he was unconscious.

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  54. Peanut says

    Posting #49 on the “Official 3.10 ‘The Firefly Discussion Thread – Page 5″ on this site’s Fringe-Forum, not ****. There are photos of the tatts.

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