The FRINGE tradition of a mind-bending 19th episode continues as the story jumps ahead to 2036, when the Observers and the Fringe team engage in a game-changing battle.
Loading ...
FRINGE: 4.19 Letters Of Transit
Article by Roco The Last
Roco is the editor of Fringe Bloggers and multiversal Gatekeeper. You can also find him at Seriable.com
Roco has written 3169 awesome articles for FringeBloggers!
Previous post: FRINGE: 4.16 Nothing As It Seems Review
Next post: FRINGE: 4.20 Worlds Apart Promo
Fringe Seasons 1-4 On Netflix
Science Channel Confirms Fringe Hasn't Been Cancelled
Olivia-esque Powers Showcased In New 'Believe' Trailer
Fringe Features In Best Serialized TV Episodes 2012/13 Article
Fringe 'The Zodiac Paradox' - Book Giveaway
{ 382 comments… read them below or add one }
“You’re very pretty.”
Wonder if she reminds him of anyone.
Well-loved. Like:
14
LOL I’m pretty sure she does! XD
Like:
1
“These aren’t the droids you’re looking for… move along.”
Well-loved. Like:
26
The Force is strong with the show…
Like:
4
loved the bunch of star wars references!
Like:
0
Brillant! great makeup! Great acting. Wonderful to see Walter as the leader of the downtrodden.
Well-loved. Like:
12
Where was Peter in the amber? And Billy hand removed? What?
Like:
4
I like the ending. I gotta admit the episode was a little lackluster. Maybe I need to think on it some more.
Like:
3
This episode makes me feel like i been asleep all season long. So many questions.
Like:
6
how the fk is William Bell back in this timeline.
They must’ve snatched him from the past.
The episode appears to not correlate with the other future timeline.
Well-loved. Like:
12
He faked his death. Jones is working for him, I know it!
Like:
6
You know it? I’ve known it since Nothing As It Seems.
Like:
0
And how did baby Henry turn into a woman named Etta? What does the bullet on her neck symbolize? How does Peter recognize her? Why does Bryoles looks like he is sick or something? Where do they need access to that only Belly’s hand can get them into? There are many more questions.
Like:
4
Maybe Etta is wearing the “bullet” that killed her mom, Olivia? Loved seeing Walter with his full brain parts. Great episode. Just ended too quickly with a million commercials.
Well-loved. Like:
25
Or maybe, (and this is reaching) it’s the bullet that killed September. I mean, up to this point already, September was instrumental in seeing to it that Etta be ultimately born, perhaps her parents were under extreme peril or duress at the time of her delivery or incubation, so to speak, and September sacrificed himself for the future of humanity, i.e Etta’s existence.
Perhaps mommy and daddy gave Etta the necklace as a token of her subsequent ‘guardian angel’.
Yeah, I know, I know, not as sweet as saying it’s the bullet that killed Olivia, but I’d like to think that Olivia doesn’t keep dying by gunfire in any and every future. Besides, she’s not really dead. This is Fringe…she’s merely…unable to come to the phone right now.
Well-loved. Like:
28
I would say the bullet was the one that killed Olivia. Is Bell somehow Mr.X? Did September stop the bullet intended for Olivia. Which timeline are we in. Ok your right so many questions!!!
Well-loved. Like:
13
Let’s see…Etta is the daughter of Peter and Olivia, not Peter and Fauxlivia. The bullet is likely the one that killed her mother. Peter recognized her because he is her father. Broyles, isn’t sick, he’s aged 20 years. Bell’s hand has fingerprints and DNA, and probably opens something.
Well-loved. Like:
38
I think that we were in the blueverse so no Henry. Etta is Peter and Olivia’s daughter. The last time she saw her parents was when she was seven. It was perfectly understandable that Ella and Peter would recognize eachother. We always look like our childhood photos. Broyles did not look sick-just really old but still with a great body. I do not know what timeline that was.
Like:
6
That was definitely the amber timeline because Bell is alive.
Like:
1
Can’t be amber universe. Astrid is regular Astrid, and part of bluniverse’s Walter’s brain was in storage. Walternate never did that.
Like:
6
@Nrm, I think you are confusing the RED universe with the current, season 4 YELLOW or AMBER universe.
Everything you said is true of “Over there”, the RED universe, but the AMBER one is very similar to the BLUE, only without the influence of an adult Peter Bishop (except to Olivia)
Hot debate. What do you think?
8
Yeah, exactly what Scott42444 said below. In the amber universe Walter’s brain parts were still removed (I mean, he’s not drastically different so we can say this with 99.999% accuracy I think), Astrid is regular Astrid of course just like in the Amberverse.
This episode didn’t take place in the redverse, actually I’m not even sure if the redverse still exists since there was no mention :O I just say amberverse to represent the the new timeline with both universes intact. So, if you meant this episode takes place in the old timeline, I’d have to disagree, this was definately the amberverse
Like:
6
She was four, wasn’t she? Cause if she was seven that would mean the team was encased in Amber later then specified. And she would most probably have remembered her parents faces. At that age, the brain’s memory bank would be a lot more developed then as a toddler.
Unless of course life experiences wiped away those memories. As it happened to her parents, I suppose that could be passed genetically too. lol.
Like:
6
I guess she was four. I thought I heard seven (my favorite number). I don’t think would necessarily be encased in amber since she was not on the fringe team, but I did not hear the year they were encased–there was so much to take in. I hope the ratings reflect all our love for 4.19!!!!
Like:
5
Well Henry was born to Alt Liv, so with our Olivia they had a girl and honoured the child who ceased to be with the name Henrietta.
I think the bullet is the one from her mother too. And Etta is the spitting image of Anna Torv, no wonder Peter would recognize her! Especially after giving each other those longs looks, he knew she was his daughter.
And I think Broyles is just very stressed, being pushed around by Observers all day, he must be quite fearful and anxious.
Well-loved. Like:
27
I’ve decided that Broyles was relieved to see Walter’s Red Vine. In spite of all the pensive looks he’s given both Bishops over the years/timelines/universes, those were “His people”.
Well-loved. Like:
26
Henry didn’t turn into Henrietta. She was the child Peter and Olivia were supposed to have. The one September told him about. Henry is gone. Who knows how Bell came back in this timeline — it’s Fringe. Yes, a lot of questions but this show was a one-off that the producers were using to try to sell a fifth season to Fox. One more task and action oriented.
Like:
2
It seems to me to correlate perfectly with the *amber* timeline we’ve been watching all season 4.
Like:
7
So i guess its safe to say that September is dead in this future?
Like:
3
I just shit bricks
Like:
6
me too. so are they going to continue this storyline? its driving me absolute bonkers. maybe the overall arch all leads up to this? why did they leave us with smany questions. all of their other “weird episodes” eiter progressed the story or it gave a little break from the usual fringe. This one just made me more curious. I just have too many questions from this ep. I really hope thy continue this arch
Like:
7
I know please tell me we are gonna get answers to this freaking awesome episode!! they cant bring back Belly into all this and then jst leave us high and dry!
Like:
1
Absolutely loved the episode, best of the episode and one of the top of the series in my opinion. Fantastic acting, wonderful script, and extremely intrigueing. We need a Season 5 to develop this story further, it is just impossible this show will end after Season 4.
Also, Belly’s back!? So he never sacrificed himself for our team in this timeline, where has he been this whole season then? I guess we’ll be seeing him in the finale
And what did Walter say about Bell and Olivia? I didn’t really get that.
10/10 , Just an incredible episode.
Well-loved. Like:
31
Walter said something to the effect that even Astrid isn’t that forgiving after what he did to Olivia.
Like:
6
So did Bell maybe result in Olivia’s death? Also Peter didn’t look too traumatized, so maybe Olivia dies a few years before they amber themselves? A future without Olivia is a sad future indeed
Well-loved. Like:
13
Bell’s hand was out. I wonder if he pushed Olivia out of the amber.
Hot debate. What do you think?
9
That makes a lot of sense actually, if that’s the case though why wasn’t Peter as traumatized when he got out?
Like:
7
I think whatever happened to Olivia happened before the Amber encasement. I think maybe Walter put them there for two reasons. One, that they could eventually fight whatever future they had to get to here, and two, because at this point in the future is when they’ll be able to save Olivia from whatever peril she faced.
All this makes me wonder though, where exactly Etta was when daddy and grandpa and Aunt Astrid were fighting off the Observers in the beginning….maybe she was with Nina? Maybe she was with Aunt Rach?…who knows…
Well-loved. Like:
14
Ha! Maybe he pushed Lincoln out of the amber. Then no one would be upset!
Well-loved. Like:
22
OMG LOL
Like:
1
*best of the season , not best of the episode lol woops :$
Like:
3
You know what’s best about this future? They gave Walter the respect he deserves, they even brought him Red Vines!
NJZEKFNZE Bloody Freaking good episode!!!!
Well-loved. Like:
26
Great episode…just awesome. The brief mention of the “beacon” at the beginning…it goes right back to the first season.
But…how did Bell survive? Seeing Nimoy in the amber made me cheer but…according to Nina, season 1, if Jones made it to the other side, Bell would be killed. Peter stopped that from happening, but not in this timeline.
Can’t wait to see what happens next.
Like:
7
I don’t think Jones killed Bell, I think maybe Bell is captured by him while Jones basically destroys the world around him to prove to Bell how special he is. I think we’ll be seeing William in the finale from this
Hot debate. What do you think?
8
It’s also possible that Jones is really one of the good guys, and is working to prevent the future we just saw in this episode. If that’s the case, he and Bell could be working togethe, and Bell faked his own death, as was suggested upthread.
Like:
5
That’s true as well. And everyone is saying Bell is dead, but I don’t remember us ever getting confirmation on that. Is it just an assumption? Not everything is as it seems
Hot debate. What do you think?
9
Bell would have survived as he would have ensured another way out as referenced by Walter as being tracked at the deserted old massive Dynamic.
Like:
4
In episode 5 (Novation) I recall Dr Truss stating that Dr Bell was dead, that being one of the reasons he didn’t continue his research into cellular regeneration. You’re right though; more questions than answers…gotta love Fringe!
Like:
4
Why should Bell be dead? In season 4 it’s a different timeline, things are very different because Peter never existed here.
Like:
4
Novation was the fifth episode of season 4.
Like:
0
overall, william bell was computer animated, and in amber. (if u stopped the video, it was clearly visible).
i think he wont reappear as actor. they cut off his hand because nimoy doesnt want to star in fringe anymore (same reason as for the comic-episode he was in).
he prolly just starred in fringe to get his spot in starTrek. this is the reason he wont appear (or only per voice, PC, animated in some form or the other, in shadow etc).
Like:
0
I think Mr Nimoy was the real deal, although an uncredited appearance.
Like:
0
he was definitly animated.
he didnt work with fringe since the last time long ago, and read the new interview to see that the fringe-staff tries everything to get him to act in season5.
for now they were able to write around it, but that wont be possible forever
Like:
0
I am wondering if this is a mashup of all timelines. Why is Bell back? Did the Fringe team 2012-2015 find yet another timeline/universe? Did they go back in time to grab Belly up? This of course could be a whole other timeline that we know nothing about too or universe, considering the Beyond the Fringe comics there are som many different configurations of timelines/universes. At what point does a timeline become a different universe? I’m at a loss for words here. ANSWERS PLEASE!!!!
Well-loved. Like:
13
I thought the guards were naziesque until I linked them with the letters of transit title. Casablanca-my favorite movie.
Like:
5
Can you explain this I missed the letters on their faces- what do they say and mean
Like:
4
I think they are letters in the Observer language, and are there to mark out humans who have aligned themselves with the Observers, to work as their enforcers.
Like:
5
I guess Broyles should’ve have one then. I’m surprised that he wasn’t part of the Resistance. At least that’s what it seems because Simon and Etta didn’t trusted him with their discovery of Walter. He became a snitch
Like:
0
Just surpassed The Day We Died as my all time favorite episode of Fringe. It took so many risks and created a compelling future that I care about just as much if not more than the present. Dying to know what happens next.
Well-loved. Like:
22
I hope they continue to show both time periods back and forth until the end of the series. We already know Olivia isn’t going to make it in the end, but maybe what they’re doing in the future will change things.
Well-loved. Like:
17
@M: That would be great if they show both time periods. But, then they would be switching between two universes and two time periods. So switching across time and space- it would all be wonderfully confusing!
Well-loved. Like:
11
Oh my God, I have tears in my eyes!!!! What a fantastic episode!! It was very well done. I love every single minute of that!
I love the story line, that beginning, when they expline what happened, give me chills!! I still can think clearly… I just know that this episode was incredible!!!!!!
Like:
6
This was an excellent episode !
I sure hope they pick up this story line in the neer future, need to know what happens next!
Like:
6
Did I miss something? How did they get Peter out of the amber? I only saw astrid and
Like:
4
Simon pushed Peter out; thats how he got stuck in there. I think he knew the deal about Etta.
Well-loved. Like:
13
Thanks, initially thought tried to push out Bell but failed
Like:
3
Seems Simon ambered himself in order to remove Peter. A switch over.
Like:
7
Anyone else have a theory on why Simon kept saying that they needed to get peter out? even sacrificed himself? could this somehow tie up with what September said about Peter being important?
Like:
6
Simon knew that the original team had the answers on how to get rid of the Observers, so it was more important to have Peter then himself basically. He sacrificed himself for the greater good, but at least he’s not dead
Well-loved. Like:
17
I hope he’ll be back next season (fingers crossed).
Like:
0
I remember it was Etta who was insisting on the other team, not Simon. But as Ian S. pointed; at the end Simon realized that she was longing to get her father out and that it was more important to get all the team together to help the Resistance.
Like:
3
Was this a blended universe timeline? There was no mention of the Alt Verse, even when Walter explained how the Observers took over he didn’t say both worlds, he just said “our planet”. I think the universes were really merged, not just connected by a bridge, with our alternates occupying the same planet essentially, then the Observers came and killed most people which explains why there wasn’t over population or anything. My theory at least
Like:
7
Well I think you get your answer in the promo for ep 04-20, they telling to switch the machine off, so no alt- world anymore
Like:
1
This could be the result of Jones’ experiment to collapse the two universes onto themselves. <- next weeks episode??
Like:
2
That was easily the best episode of the season, hands down.
I KNEW Bell had a part to play, I knew it! It seemed to sink my Bell-as-the-Crimson-King theory though; maybe he WAS working with Jones but betrayed him. I don’t know. But he’s GOT to be the Mr. X that kills Olivia; there’s no way around that. What on earth will they do with his hand? And where was Lincoln?
I have to say, my timeline of events that I drew up several days ago was pretty damn close to what really happened. My timeline was actually more logical than the real one, since the real one left some very large holes, like: Why did the Observers wait until 2015 to make their move? Did they do anything about Jones? I have a possible explanation about the first one; May 2015 would mark the end of the seventh season, maybe the Observer invasion was supposed to be the series finale.
It was so great to see Henry Ian Cusick again. He was excellent in this episode. So was Georgina Haig. Her accent was unnoticeable. If we get picked up for that final season, I would love to see her again. It was obvious she was Walter’s granddaughter; even though she said it as a cover story, it was easy to see it would be true.
LOVED all the pop culture references. The Terminator style opening was perfect, and Walter spouting classic movie quotes was hysterical (the one from The Prisoner was especially apt).
I’m sure there are lots of things I missed, but for the moment, that’s all I can think of.
Like:
5
Will any of this episode be relevant again this season?
Like:
4
It apparently lays the groundwork for season 5, and also offers insights into the events that I imagine will occur after the season 4 finale and the season 5 premiere (if there is a season 5, I imagine it will take place right where this episode left off). Plus that whole thing with William Bell, we know he’s alive now, so I’m sure that will come into play in the season finale as well. Just like The Day We Died was basically the pinnacle of the story of seasons 1-3, even though it had nothing to do really with the story at hand
Holy, I just realized how much I love this show.
Well-loved. Like:
19
Great thoughts, that makes me feel better, but no Olivia then? And I don’t rally want to see Bell do anything bad to her, she was starting to trust him after LSD.
Well-loved. Like:
11
I’m really curious as to what happened to Olivia. Peter doesn’t seem upset or anything, so whatever happened to her must have happened years before? We know that Etta is 24, Walter was in amber for 20 years, so 2036 – 20 = 2016 (since Etta was 4 the last time she saw her parents), so 2016 – 4= 2012, which means Olivia is pregnant now! So Olivia will live for at least another 9 months to give birth to Etta, and perhaps another 4 years before she is killed.
Whatever Bell did do to her, I can only believe that it was for the greater good. William may not have had the best morals, but he was no villain, and definitely not a murderer. Whatever he did to Olivia, he at least believed to have had the right thoughts in his head I think. I really want to see Bell this season, I hope Leonard Nimoy can still come back and act!
Well-loved. Like:
14
Not necessarily, Ian. They may perform that accelerated pregnancy thing from Bloodline again.
Like:
0
I’m hoping the fifth season will alternate between episodes in the present and the future. The present episodes will show events leading up to the Observer takeover, Peter/Olivia having a daughter, and Olivia’s death. The future episodes will continue from this one.
Olivia may die, but we all die at some point, and hopefully they’ll continue her story until the end of the series and show the circumstances of her death then. We already know that she will live to start a family with Peter and her daughter will play a huge role in saving the future.
Or they could just change the timeline so this future never happens, like they did with The Day We Died. I hope not. This future is far more interesting and it would be very rewarding to see mankind learn from the mistakes of the future by preserving the planet.
Well-loved. Like:
22
Anything can happen in Fringe, they prove that today!!
Like:
7
Great thoughts, M. I love the idea of alternating between the future and the present, like in season 3 how they would have cases Over There and Over Here for the first half of the season. It would be really cool to basically get historical episodes leading up to the events in the future, showing the main points that happened. Maybe we will stay in the future but have a flashback episode? I’m very curious to see what happened to Olivia and September.
I agree on not changing the timeline again. I don’t think they could even pull it off if they tried, adjusting to a new timeline was very difficult for some viewers and although it did pay off, a third one would be too much I think. Also, like you said, mankind learning that they must preserve the planet would leave a beautiful message at the end of the show.
Hot debate. What do you think?
8
i too also love the idea of alternating between present / future!
Also i think Georgina Haig will make a very nice season 5 cast regular and they should also have Desmond as a regular also! just sayin enjoyed them both alot
Like:
7
I think you are on to something, but what if the way they alternate is via memory as Etta learns about her beloved mother from her newly found family. We won’t lose Olivia, per say. This could be treated as a whole new series, a spinn off: Fringe~the Resistance. More people might be interested in a ‘big brother is really watchers from the future come to take over our planet then’ the xfile feel that was placed around our Fringe. Someone mentioned above that this was the pilot for season 5. Premiere it after Idol and give it a fresh try as a new show in a good slot. Think about it! Walter, Peter, Etta, and Astrid fighing the Observers, sprinkle in some Phillip, Nina and perhaps even some September ~ what’s not to love? There would be no worries of awkard romantic drama between partners bogging down the plot, only some memories to remind us of a love thats true. Along the way, Fringe~theResistane can use the flashbacks/memories to give them something relevant to use against the foe in the ‘battle of the week’…at least that is how it will seem to a new viewer in the fringeverse. For the loyal fans of the original Fringe, they could also serve to answer long standing questions and/or fill in (at least some)plot holes. This could last for many seasons, after all, Walter says it will take him a long time to build the key to saving our planet. What I’m saying is that this could be the beginning of a beautiful thing. “If you build it, they will come”
Like:
3
hmm sorry, I would watch that if it was Olivia instead of Peter, because TBH her character is the one that keeps me engaged to Fringe
Well-loved. Like:
12
She would still be a main character and the underlying story would ultimately be about saving her after/while they deal with the observers. This will always be Olivia’s story.
Like:
3
No Drenami, For me it would be like watching Louise Lane telling stories about Superman…when all I really want is to watch Superman IN ACTION and EVOLVING (sorry for my yelling but I just don’t want to see Olivia Dunham getting pregnant and I’m reflecting)
Like:
5
Any have a guess whether Walter will ever be sweet again; now that they’ve replaced the parts of his brain that he had removed because he didn’t like what he had become?
Well-loved. Like:
13
I thought about that too, I hope so!
Like:
4
He might be more like Walternate now, which is a better fit with the future story anyway. We still have our Walter in the present.
Well-loved. Like:
15
But if the good parts of his brain were damaged, could be the not-so-good will tip the balance, and he would be mostly not so good, ruthless. Left Bell behind sans hand already. I guess good for wartime/resistance but could lose ethical conscience
Hot debate. What do you think?
8
Remember, Walter had those pieces of his brain removed because he was not happy about the man he was becoming. I get the feeling that the two Walters were not so far apart personality wise before our Walter did this to himself. There are things about our Water that were not really discussed too much but remember that he was in St. Claire’s for 17 years. It has been my contention that this was part of his plan when his lab assistant was killed and he was first charged with manslaughter and malpractice that put him in the asylum.
Like:
3
So what I wanna know…
Did Peter tell Olivia he was naming their daughter after the son he never knew he had with Altlivia? If so, did she blow out he lights on the entire block when she found out? If not, is that still a form of betrayal?
I can’t say that any amount of timelines or universe travel would make me comfortable with this naming scheme. It works for the episode though because of the history and all
Well-loved. Like:
24
I think these are one of the things that the writers aren’t going to assume ‘important’. Perhaps, Peter suggested the name ‘Henry’ for secret reasons of course, and Liv just happened to like it so they named their daughter Henrietta. I mean, that would be the easiest explanation, and given that Etta is a bit like Ella, I can see why Liv would have been very okay with Peter’s choice of name.
Or there is the whole, “Ha ha, hey Liv, funny thing happened in the last timeline when I slept with your doppleganger cause I thought she was you…” conversation.
Really don’t know how well that would play out, but I’d to think Liv’s grown a bit in her own accountability toward rational reaction. I’d like to think she’d be more understanding then angry, after hearing Peter’s confession. If not, then really her character wouldn’t have progressed at all after all the melodrama of season three. At this point, I can’t see her saying ‘Oh my god, Peter how could you?” given, not only that he had no idea, but that it was never his intent to be with anyone besides her to begin with.
The whole concept of Olivia’s misery in season three, in my mind, wasn’t that Peter betrayed her, persay, but that the other version of her is better then she, and therefore is the one who can truly make Peter happy, and ergo, give him the kind of happiness she’s never been able to truly find. And now, after everything else that’s happened since, I’d like to think Olivia’s realized that she can create the happiness and future she wants by imagining and therefore, believing that she deserves it. I’d like to think that Olivia’s done over-reacting to things out of her control because she’s come to learn that the past is best left in the past if a happier future requires it stay there.
What I’m trying to say I suppose, is that even if her and Peter, did, in the future, have a talk about the son he did but *didn’t* have, then she would have been okay with hearing it because she understands their lives then, compared to their lives now, and she knows that moving forward is all that matters anymore.
Not to mention the fact, that really, in the reality they’re living in now, her and Peter are the only ones who remember any of season’s three scandalous story, so technically, it happened but it didn’t really…happen. The other her, as it stands now, has never seen little Peter….either of them…so…really, it doesn’t matter, cause not only was it in the past, at this point, it’s all mere fantastical suggestion to everyone else.
If I were Peter, and if I am truly the matured character that I’ve seem to become, I would tell Liv knowing that she’s the matured character she’s become in the past season and a half too. Honest to God, I truly believe this is a conversation they can not only handle, but be completely empathetic, understanding, and ultimately okay about.
They’re the people they are now because of the people they were then. I think that goes a long way in saying that they’ve grown a lot stronger together. Not matter what comes their way, they can deal with it cause they’ve learned how to by now.
Well-loved. Like:
24
I like what you said! Make total sense!
Like:
7
Well said! Couldn’t agree more
Like:
5
Don’t forget, Olivia has all her Blue memories now, and presumably remembers the cabbie who helped her in the redverse. And it’s not a stretch that she meets up with his blue counterpart at some point.
Hot debate. What do you think?
9
Sort of like, wherever you go, there you are.
Like:
1
About Belly…I really don’t remember when they said that Bell was dead! I mean, we know that in the old timeline Bell was really dead. But in this new one, who knows what really heppened with him. If they can bring Bell once from the dead, they can bring twice!
Love seen Walter with his full capacity!
Well about Etta’s pendant necklace, seemed to me that she was wearing a bullet used capsule… If September is right and Olivia dies in every single future, Olivia was killed with a bullet, and Etta uses it for some , kind of weird, reason.
So, seems to me that what is going to happen in the next episodes is going to trace our destiny, the actions that they gonna have, will make us go right in to that future or will make us go to a very much better future!!
Like:
7
Bell always exists. It’s like Walter says in the episode about he and Bell having more than one out. We saw Bell being conjured via ”Soul Magnets” [shudder]. Whatever transpired that resulted in him being ambered with the Fringe Team can’t possibly be as silly as that.
Like:
3
This episode was absolutely stunning! I LOVED it. It was like a whole new faction of a show that I love, and it was so very intriguing.
LOVED the dialogue/chemistry between Simon and Etta. Obviously, they’ve been working together for a while, and we could reasonably gather, that the delectable Agent Foster was not only a scientist, but a member of Fringe division who works outta the box. Love that *uck the rules aspect.
On another note, I assumed, from the beginning, that Etta was somehow related to our Original Fringe team. After finding out five minutes in that she can block Observer-mind waves, I hypothesized that she was conceived during a night of corpsexy-phan. I considered it an if/then formula. If Etta is special, if she has powers of some kind, then it’s presumably biological and inherited from her parents, -The Dunhamator and The Boom-Boom Operator.
Needless to say then, learning in the end, that she is *in fact* Bishop blood, wasn’t a surprise. I think the biggest jaw dropper in this episode was learning that it’s Belly who’s this future’s Mr. X. For reasons unknown Willy saw to Olivia’s demise, again, presumably, and all the questions stemming from that tid-bit of information are endless. Of course, it’s also reasonable to assume, given this is the world of Fringe, that Olivia is *not* dead in this future, simply, disassembled anatomically somewhere, or currently in a different state of suspended animation. Who knows, god knows I want to…here’s to season five!
Anyways, LOVED the shout out to Star Wars with Walter’s ‘droids’ comment. Every time I try that on the clerks at Target, it doesn’t go over nearly as comically as the scene in the transport station.
It was satisfying too, to see the ‘Walter’s Brain Matter’ story-line picked back up. A lot of times there are so many new sub-plots introduced that I forget they were there to begin with as the story goes forward. I liked being able to hear Nina mention the aforementioned stored matter and saying ‘Oh yeah, season two, I remember that!’. That was a pretty awesome treat. All this being said, I’m not sure yet what to think of how this re-inverted matter is going to affect the ‘softer’ more ‘humble’ aspects of the Walter we’ve grown to love. It seemed to me, this Walter shared traits with not only his old self, but to an extent, the less hospitable Walternate of earlier seasons. I’m betting these less appreciatory traits are the very reasons why Walter requested Bell remove them in the first place. Really would be interesting to see who and how Walter would truly become as these are re-introduced into his personality.
Another delectable morsel, was finding out that September did indeed go ‘rogue’ against the Observers, and intended, at one point in the future, to help us significantly; be it to create the device in the hologram, or intervene on Olivia’s behalf, we’re yet to know. Unfortunately, his helping hand lended him, what we could assume, is a horrid fate given Walter’s misfortunate comment. R.I.P Seppy, we knew you were one of the good…um, guy things.
Anybody else squeal when Broyles came on the screen?! At first I thought he hadn’t aged a day, but damn, Philly got old. Great make-up job on that one. And it’s good to see him still running things. Also, I loved being able to feel his reaction upon finding the licorice stick, as if he too, felt hope in knowing that Walter was back in action. I’d like to think that Broyles is, from this point on in the future, doing whatever he can to progress the actions of his old, re-emerged Fringe team. Olivia or no, I’m sure he’s a man desperate for change. Given his stance in the last foreseeable future, I’m sure every version of Broyles has faith in a better world.
Going forward, hopefully into a season five, I’d assume we’ll get answers to all the loose ends of this episode. Especially the Bell/Dunham aspect. I don’t know about you guys, but this was probably the most interesting question. I’d like to know exactly what he did to her and why. And I am convinced that she is, in fact, not dead, simply incompacitated somehow, somewhere. Of course, again, it wasn’t a surprise that her and Peter managed to have themselves the first member of their tribe before she disappeared. Given Etta was four at the time of her last memory, and twelve-fifteen was The Purge, I calculated that it must have been between twelve-thirteen and twelve fourteen that she was conceived. Given all the alone time Peter and Liv have been getting in recent episodes, I’d say they’re working on that already..and without shame. Oh Petey and Liv, little do you two know that your little bun in the oven is gonna take the future back. Guess your pairing really was fated after all. Guess it was kinda important that you survived drowning and she found your boom-boom. Look at you guys go. You’re gonna have your own team of Fringe Division Avengers. And without the spandex too! Oh my, what the world will come too!
Gotta admit, the scene there in the end when she called Peter Dad, tugged at my heart strings quite a bit. It was just really cute. And damn, Joshie, I knew you could act but you’re really impressing me this season….I wanted to reach out and hug the both of you. And that necklace is intriguing, too….was that a bullet? An emblem of something from yo momma?…hope we can find out.
All this leads up to the best aspect of the episode which is NO LINCOLN!!!!! *wahoo* oh my god, was it just me, or was anyone else relieved NOT TO SEE HIM ONSCREEN! It’s about time we got a break. And damn, I have no shame saying that I’m glad he wasn’t in the Amber there in the end. IF they’d pulled him out too, I’d have been screaming at them to put him back in and forget he was in there!
Anyways, this episode was SO GREAT!! I will watch it again and again. If just for Henry Ian Cusack. Cause…damn he was so great! And I’ve never even seen one episode of Lost. I hope they pull him out in season Five (hopefully).
Well-loved. Like:
50
ditto, on the droid comment!
Like:
4
Great post Rae. Henry Ian Cusick was great. BTW if you ve never watched Lost, you really need to. It was great.
Well-loved. Like:
10
Great post-I hope that Roco reads it. It wil give him some ideas for his review.
Like:
4
Love your post!!!
Like:
6
Hey, Rae, great post as always. I like what you say every time you post. A couple of thoughts in reply:
* When Etta talked about The Purge, it had the distinct feel of specific people being hunted down. Now we know.
* I remarked earlier that the William/Olivia angle (and indeed William Bell himself) is the thread that will be what propels season 5, if even in the background. Some have said that William Bell was a good guy and not a murderer. That was true pre-Boom-Boom Machine. This timeline, things are different. Walter sizing him up in the amber appeared to have nothing but contempt and almost hatred for his former lab partner. Sawing-off his hand while leaving him trapped in the amber was a strong signal that Walter had no use for the man. In the amber it looks like Bell is trying to escape. I think William Bell is different in this timeline.
* It WAS good that Lincoln was not in the eppy. (Lincoln the Librarian, Purple Lincoln, “True Baby Blue Continental” Lincoln, whatever we call him, is poorly drawn.) But we don’t know what happened to him. Did only one universe (BlueWorld) survive the collapsing of the universes, assuming it really occurred? If so, was Lincoln trapped in the collapse because he was Over There? Or did he survive and get ambered-in but not rescued yet? I have a feeling Lincoln is still part of the team but did not get removed yet.
* There sure were a lot of Observer men. Where are the Observer women? These guys had to happen SOMEHOW. Although, the Observers may have left “home” and had their desires feted in the process.
* Yes, Simon WAS great. Anyway they can have him transited back in time to be part of OUR Fringe team?
Well-loved. Like:
10
I’ve got the greatest idea!! Trade Simon for Lincoln! Oh my god, I like the sounds of that so much. If we switched out every Lincoln based episode with Simon, I would finally be able to watching Everything In Its Right Place more then once. lmao!
Well-loved. Like:
20
LOLOLOLOLOL!!!! Agreed.
Like:
7
Im losing count of the fringe episodes that i will never watch again because lincoln has tainted them! :L
Well-loved. Like:
11
Hells yeah replace Linc with Simon. would abosultely love to see Henry Ian Cusack as a regular in season 5! & Georgina Haig
Well-loved. Like:
14
Great post Rae!
Like:
7
Rae, you must check out LOST. Desmond Hume… swoon !!!
Like:
5
The Dunhamator and the Boom-Boom Operator. Does that mean Etta is the Boom-Boom Dunhamator?
Like:
3
I’m so confused…I’ll have to re-watch it tomorrow…
I did recognized their daughter…confirmed when she said she’d lost her parents at four yrs old.
I wasn’t paying attention to the time I was totally shocked when it was over.
Loved gray Nina! She looked fabulous.
And Desmond nice to see him again, great job…I hope we see Gaeta again!
Did anyone spot the Observer
Hot debate. What do you think?
9
I spotted plenty of them.
I’m wondering it the Observer we’re meant to find is the one who told Etta that she’s about to have her meeting.
Perhaps, he wasn’t in the background this time?
Like:
4
Oh…right the bald guys with the fedoras.
Like:
4
The faux versions of everyone are still similar, same childhoods, parents etc. Henry or henrietta could be a significant name to both olives so there’s no betrayal. Both olives named their child after the same person.
Like:
4
Oh my goodness . . . Fringe just keeps blowing it out the box. I LOVED THE EPISODE from beginning to end. I’ve already rewatched it once. Peter and Olivia have a baby Olivia . . . can’t ask for anything better. Well, a 5th season . . .
How can Walter still be funny as hell in the middle of such a dire situation. I love him. Etta and Simon, I’d watch a series with the two of them as partners.
Fringe gots to be renewed for a 5th season (full — 22 episodes). Okay, that’s all I can write at the moment.
Well-loved. Like:
20
Totally agree!
Like:
4
WE WANT FULL 22 EPISODE SEASON 5 WITH A PROSPECT OF SEASON 6! JUST LET US HAVE IT PLEASE WE BEG OF YOU
Well-loved. Like:
18
You said it all lost_stef, you said it all!!
Like:
2
Why did Simon have tracker that they were able to activate, but not Etta? Is she not Fringe as well?
Like:
2
Etta didn’t present papers and Simon did. Broyles probably could have added up that she was the woman with him, but only tracked him, probably assuming they would still be together.
Like:
4
VERY GOOD EPPY.
* Excellent opening crawl. Had a Star Wars feel.
* Walter in amber. Walter coming out of amber. Walter being absolutely funny. Another Star Wars moment: These aren’t the droids you’re looking for.
* Walter with his brain back seemed a lot more like Walternate. I hope they walk that path a few times before the end of the show.
* All told, John Noble knocked it out of the park.
* Broyles a shell of his old self. He looked beaten down. When Widmark said he would put Broyles down, how could any other conclusion than Broyles being compare to a dog to be put to sleep be drawn?
* The cops looked very much like the SS. Complete with the marks to show them as loyalists/sympathizers.
* Etta. From the moment the show started, it was obvious she was Olivia’s daughter. The ability to scramble her thoughts so that she could not be linked-up in an Observer mind meld. The moment with Walter. The end of the show with Peter. So now we know that Henry was never to be born, at least in RedWorld, but Henrietta was to be born.
* The Observers as Big Brother. The portraits that seemed to follow you wherever you went.
* Henry Ian Cusick was excellent as Simon. And he made the choice to sacrifice himself so that the Fringe team could escape.
Which leads to:
* William Bell in amber. THAT WAS FREAKING INCREDIBLE. And Walter’s comment to “Astro” (even after 25 years in amber, he did it, but it seemed like he did it tongue-in-cheek) about what Bell did to Olivia is the angle for next year’s eppys, I think, if the show gets renewed. Maybe Mr. X is a young William Bell.
One other thought…the promo at the end had Nick Lane looking very much like a Sith Lord as he was summoning his powers.
All in all, this #19 was EDGY. Very good episode, and I am eager for next week to get here.
Well-loved. Like:
16
The crawl reminded me of Terminator.
Like:
3
I had to do a double take. I had to re-watch the promo for next weeks ep to make sure it was the same actor from Bad Dreams. Damn oh damn, is he FINE all done up and clean shaven.
This last string of episodes, with all the man-candy and whatnot are making my womanly parts tingle….;) Hurray for sexy guest stars. Oh, and Petah…;)
Ugh…like always, Lincoln excluded….that exception should be old hat by now.
Like:
4
Almost two weeks ago, I said:
“The twisted angle to this show that would be REALLY interesting is if the Cortexiphan kids are part of DRJ’s army.”
Now it appears at least some are, based on the promo at the end.
Like:
6
All of this is because Desmond didn’t push the button!
Well-loved. Like:
24
LMAO!!
Hot debate. What do you think?
9
Funny!
Like:
4
it would have been sweet if when he was about to put himself in amber he uttered the words ‘see you in another life brother’
Like:
5
Holy crap balls. Mind = Blown. I want more future eps!!! But somehow with Olivia there…she is not dead. I refuse to believe it!
Walter had so many funny lines in this ep. Loved it! Henry Ian Cusick was fantastic, I adore him. Great ep! My mind is racing after this, must rewatch and then hopefully I can be a little more coherent.
Well-loved. Like:
10
I just thought … what is her surname ??? Nobody said it!! Bishop, Dunham … other name that we don’t know…
Like:
6
I was thinking that too, but I am thinking it wouldn’t be either cause she probably wouldn’t want the Observers to know that she was related to P/O.
Hot debate. What do you think?
9
Yeah, I was thinking that possibili!!!
Like:
4
It just occurred to me that Mr. X could have been in Olivia’s mind because he was in Bell’s mind. This is starting to add up.
Well-loved. Like:
16
Or Mr. X was left behind by Bell intentionally or unintentionally in Olivia’s mind. When he explained Mr X as “possibly someone terrible from her past,” he did seem rather coy. Or Mrr X. could even be Bell’s last ditch attempt to survive when he relinquished Olivia’s body. It’s funny, Mr X sounds like a younger Leonard Nimoy.
Like:
1
With a Danish accent, though.
Like:
0
Anyone think there there is a future alternate universe? If they were blended, no sign of AlterLiv, Walternate etc…
Unless Jones destroyed it? Or we haven’t glimpsed it yet
Like:
1
I’m starting to think that Jones will destroy the Alt Verse in his attempt to “collapse” both universes. Maybe some of our heroes Over There will survive if they were on our side, but I just sense major deaths coming up in this finale…
Like:
7
That would only be awesome so we wouldn’t have to see Lincoln ever again…..
Everyone one else, especially Alt-Liv, I would miss terribly.
Well-loved. Like:
15
And Alt-Astrid
Like:
6
AWW, meep, I would miss Lincoln. I’m deffintity with on really miss Alt-Liv. I’ve really grown to love her! Don’t go away Red! I’d also really miss Alt-Astrid! Love her too.
Or Jones will try but fail or maybe not. See point below. I sorta get the impression that the universes are supposed to exists in balance and not be merged or one gone while the other stays. Maybe for some really weird reason, merging the universes was a step toward the Observer take over. Maybe Season 5 would, along with getting rid of the Observer take over, deal with the team having to somehow get the Universes un-merged again. Now that would be REALLY cool I think. Maybe, doing so would have an effect on the Observers. September seems to believe the Universes should stay balanced.
Like:
3
First sentence should be. I’m definitely with you on really missing Alt-Liv too. I was typing to fast LOL. : P
Like:
3
Iticed it right away that they never used her name when they said agent. also, the are very good at picking actors. she was the perfect balance between olivia and peter
Like:
7
And oh my god, she was so cute, too! And she was kinda funny like Petah, but remarkably determined in her profession as Livvy. I even thought to myself, damn, they did a good job writing her.
And I was totally dun in when Simon said Walter was her grandfather. I’m thinking to myself “no way, is that a mere excuse. There’s definitely gotta be some truth in that.” And alas, I was right! oh yeah!
Well-loved. Like:
14
Good catch. That went right past me
Like:
3
But Simon asking about her interaction with Walter just before HE (Simon) ambered himself in implied that he was not aware of Walter really being her grandfather.
Like:
3
I’ll have to watch that part again, cause I didn’t quiet grasp the ‘what’ he was talking about it. I remember thinking…”did I miss something?”. Did she react differently then she would have to someone *not* related to her? This peaks my curiosity….time for a re-watch…
Like:
3
Fringe episodes can NEVER be watched enough.
Like:
4
Damn straight honey! Ugh…unless they involve Lincoln….there really truly is only so much of him I can handle. My quota for the week is goose-egg, zilch…notta.
Well-loved. Like:
14
Agreed the personalities were there, they even did a wonderful job at selecting an actress with a physical likeness to both, Olivia’s hair, face shape, Peter’s eyes but blue like her mother’s.
Like:
4
Olivia (or Anna Torv) has green eyes. Peter (or Joshua Jackson) has blue. (John Noble’s eye color is green again, if I’m correct.) So she could have inherited her eye color only from her dad.
Like:
5
Etta has inherited the best of both parents. Beauty and brains. Lol!
Well-loved. Like:
11
Is it next Friday yet ?
Hot debate. What do you think?
8
Wait? What is the mention of the beacon? I don’t remember that happening. Also, a FANTASTIC episode! Best of the season! One of the best in the series! Fringe BETTER be renewed after this incredible episode!
Like:
6
When Simon showed Walter the hologram of the machine, the one that can get rid of the observers, he said he thought it was some beacon or something.
Like:
3
Its been a long time since ive enjoyed every minute of a fringe episode, and during this episode i did enjoy every minute. If this is what season 5 is going to be like im well onboard (however i do want olivia in it lol, lincoln can stay not being in it..)
Even though it was obvious Georgina Haig was gonna portray P/O’s daughter and i was very slow to pick up on the whole “Etta” is short for “Henrietta” thing i did get it before the episode. BUT she was incredibly well portrayed, and as other people have said she was the perfect balance between P/O, the humour when they are deambering walter was like the peter/walter dynamic from season 1 and she was serious about her job like Olivia, i also really liked the end scene between Etta and Peter, thought it was very well acted, and do i even need to say how well HIC acted (AKA Desmond) he was brilliant.
I appreciated that Walter was in this episode more, im among the people that feel he has been underutilised this season, and thought all of his walterisms were funny, the writing has been a bit off more him (IMO) in the last few episodes. Also how many consecutive episodes has Blair Brown been in now? she must be started to feel like shes a regular!
Other things of note:
- Not sure why the observer was trying to get with that “escort” shall i say? im assuming they dont have the necessary “hardware” to interact with her “software”….*wink* *wink*, this is because there dont seem to be any woman observers, creepy thought: they all come from an “observer mother” not unlike the rachni in mass effect!
-If etta was four when she last saw her parents and im assuming that was in 2015, she must be concieved pretty damn soon, and as most people have already figured that the show will end with olivia pregnant, im assuming that will be in the finale.
-Anna Torv has always been in it a lot, so it was refreshing to have an episode without her in it, but i definately want her to be in it a lot next episode
-Ive already said it but, the episode flowed so much better without glasses in the works if you get my meaning
Well-loved. Like:
15
I will add however that like 3.15 (subject 13) this episode was just placed in, there was no build up to it like 2.15(peter) it just happened, im not what the point of this episode was as it dosent help our characters because they dont remember, even though it was a fantastic episode it was essentially a filler episode
Like:
0
This episode is completely without context and suffers for it, (is a better way of saying it)
Like:
2
Suffers in what way??? I thought it very “fringy”, in the best tradition of the series. One of the 10 best episodes of the whole series…
Like:
3
yeah, but we remember it and it was a hell of a way to show that william bell is still alive haha.
Like:
0
Okay, I keep reading people saying that Bell being back alive AGAIN is a surprise, but isn’t it entirely possible that he never died.
Alt-Broyles was brought back to life when Peter was erased from the timeline, presumably because he never helped Olivia cross back over, since she never had to go to the RED universe to bring Peter “back”. I always assumed he was a shapeshifter until last weeks episode (since that would not only explain how he is back from the dead, but also why he was helping Jones) but I believe that we are supposed to assume that he is a regular person due to not only his personal attachment to his wife and son but also because Jones would not have to bribe his own shapeshifter.
So, if Broyles never died, then Bell didn’t necessarily die either, RIGHT?
Like:
2
Bell sacrificed himself to get everyone back Over Here at the end of Over There. Since we never Went over there, Bell didn’t have to sacrifice himself, and we got Leonard Nimoy BACK IN ACTION!
Like:
6
it was said this season that bell died but we don’t know how (or I just can’t remember)
so I am really confused…
Like:
1
Could have faked his death..
Like:
3
yes, he could have….
I really hope they explain this in the last 3 episodes
Like:
1
Wait…that felt so unresolved! Surely this will be somehow resolved next season! It felt like it was the beginning of something not a stand alone special ep!
Like:
2
The producers said that ep 19 would be the blueprint/setup for season 5 if it gets renewed, so this storyline would be the main one for season 5 *EEEEEP*
Like:
7
I hope so – This was by far one of the more exciting eps I’ve seen in a long time…I really liked etta as well!
I really like observer centric eps –
I’d love to see one only on the observers from their perspective when they jump between fringe eps… so you get to see what we experienced over 4 years in one ep …. It would be great to see which order they jumped around…Septembers defiance holds much more with me now.
Like:
7
Context, please? Help! I need it to give it proper rating!
I enjoyed it, but childish Walter got old fast and they wasted too much time on him. They run around a lot and did very little, so when we got to the final scene, it felt like the action was about to begin. My reaction was “What? Is that it?” It felt half finished.
I liked all the characters, old and new. I think the characterization for Etta was very good and the actress did a fantastic job playing P/O’s daughter. The scene with her and Peter at the end was very touching and definitely my favorite. Simon was great too and if there is a second part to this episode, I have no doubt they will go back for him, like Peter promised.
It’s obvious that Olivia died at some point. Too obvious. I think that’s what the old Fringe team want everyone to believe, but I don’t think it’s true.
Observations:
- Do Observers reproduce by parthenogenesis or something? Is there a reason why there are no females among them?
- Are they born or created with a suitcase attached? (Take a look at all those Observers outside the FORMERLY MASSIVE DYNAMIC building).
- How do they go from emotionless neutral Observers to womanizers?
- That older Observer was torturing that guy with his mind. Do they have superpowers now?
- In the amber universe, when did Walter have those pieces of his brain extracted?
Hot debate. What do you think?
8
Yeah no matter how much I enjoyed the episode (which was a lot btw) the context is a real problem with me, like it was for 3.15. Its like we just went on to another show had a look around and then left when it was just beginning. So i dont really understand the point of the episode, apart from showing us a possible future (which september could have just said on screen) we dont really get anything from it, was this episode purely for the traditional episode 19 slot?
Agh, whatever it was a fantastic episode though.
Like:
4
My reaction was “What? Is that it?” It felt half finished.
Number 6, does that mean you didn’t like Walter’s dancing ?
Is that all there is, is that all there is
If that’s all there is my friends, then let’s keep dancing
Let’s break out the booze and have a ball
If that’s all there is
Like:
0
Hey was that machine that they wanted Walter to build and that was in the hologram the BBM. Maybe this is how it originally got built and then was eventually sent back in time. My head hurts.
Like:
3
Upon re-watching it, the device in the hologram does look more like a metal-skeletal beacon thingy. I don’t think it bears too much resemblance at all to the BBM, but again, there were too holograms in the episode. The one I’m referring to is the one Walter’s studying after the re-implementation of his brain cells.
Like:
5
I must be the oldest Fringe fan as no one else has mentioned homage to the 1968 British show that was way way ahead of its time THE PRISONER with Patrick McGoohan. Walter retorts when called the prisoner that “I am not a number I am a free man” exactly what Number 6 the Prisoner said in the intro to each Prisoner episode. I am not sure if this was meant as another of his references to things from the 1960s, such as LSD, or if there is more meaning to it. In any case this was the best episode of the season which otherwise I thought was quite disappointing and it makes me look forward to season 5. I knew immediately that Etta was Peter and Olivia’s daughter as soon as she was able to block out the Observers probing but I dont get how the observers turned into this nazi like group of beings who have taken control of the earth. I anxiously await to see how this will play itself out when it comes to the alternate universe. It appears they disappear in this version of the future or we shall see.
Well-loved. Like:
14
I watched The Prisoner, but the remake, with Jim Caviezel e Ian Mckellen and I remembered number 6 and 2 in that scene too. In the first minutes I felt an influence of Drive soundtrack (early 80′s synth-pop) and a Sin City vibe in the photography too. And then a lot of George Orwell’s 1984, and the Star Wars’ references just completed the awesomeness!
Like:
1
I noticed that also. The Prisoner is one of my favorite shows.
Like:
0
“These aren’t the droids you’re looking for”.
Bamm!!
BEST.EPISODE.EVER.
“Move along…”
Well-loved. Like:
10
So torn with this one because I was really anxious to get some resolutions to last weeks episode, but I totally loved Etta and Simon and getting introduced to the new world with the Observers etc. It felt like I was watching a whole new show and that I was special and had read the manual to the prequel. The actors, dialogue, backdrop all fringe outstanding, however it really dragged on. That was definitely 20 minutes of stuff, not an hour. Well I guess it was a success since I’m intrigued– so this better get to a season 5!!!!
I still can’t wrap my head around the Henry and Henrietta thing– September said he made a mistake by interrupting Walternate from making a cure to save Peter so he let Walter take him and save him in the other universe. But if Peter was suppose to survive and be cured by Walternate and live with him, wouldnt it mean that him and Fauxlivia were suppose to be together and have a kid? Which is totally what happened. So i’m thinking we’re suppose to believe that Peter should have survived and grow up and some how travel to the other universe and hook up with our Olivia? What? Brain freeze.
Looking forward to lame Lincoln hopefully turning into cool confident Lincoln– somebody please take those damn glasses off of him!
Like:
6
I think ultimately, Olivia would have traveled over to the RedVerse or Peter to the Blue, and that’s how they would have met. It’s my assumption that the war between Jones and our team (s) would have existed still, and in the process of fighting that war, our two worlds would have collided in a joint effort to save the universes. This is how they would have originally come to meet, I’d like to think.
Will this ever truly be answered? Probably not given ‘Fate’ is the simplest answer we’re going to get, most likely. Still, it works well enough for me because I don’t need all my T’s crossed and I’s dotted as long as I can still read the word and know it’s context…
Not a wrong answer, mind you, cause in the end, we can argue that it is true. But sure, it’d be nice to see how it would have happened had everything played out as intended in the beginning.
Like:
5
S01E02, The Same Old Story:
“PETER: This is your car? Of course it is. So what, you got cars stuffed with papers all over town?
WALTER: Not just cars. You have no idea where I’ve hidden things.
PETER: Friend of yours? (displays severed hand in jar)
WALTER: Oh… I certainly hope not.”
Rings a Bell?! These writers are… really… IDK… sick? A bit? Or f****g geniuses.
Well-loved. Like:
29
I have a feeling, in the end, Fringe will loop back nicely to S1E1.
Well-loved. Like:
11
Wow nice catch! that would if they were actually linked! i hope they are
Like:
5
so this was bellys hand and walter sent it back in time to hide it??
just how goddamn genius are wyman and pinkner?!?!?!
Well-loved. Like:
10
noble said in an interview that this episode will resolve a mystery that was there since season 1…so maybe he really meant this!!
Like:
6
Brilliant. Good catch.
Like:
2
Oh, cool I had forgotten about that. Very, VERY cool!
Like:
1
Go NORA!! awesome pickup
Like:
2
You go!!! Very nice nora !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Like:
2
Bravo!!
Like:
1
Holy crap, that was one hell of a catch! You get Fringe Blogger of the Week IMO
Like:
1
Thank you, guys.
You’re too kind.
Like:
1
I wonder if the hologram was the same device the observers used to lock September out of the universe… it seems similar shape.
Like:
1
brilliant episode but we just need season 5 now more than ever!!
Like:
4
http://i.imgur.com/BGDlq.jpg
092112#
September 21, 2012 is a (Fringe) Friday!
Like:
3
Probably the premiere of season 5!!! YAY!!
I bet it has been renewed already, but the writers are not allowed to say for some reason so they just leaked a clue
Like:
2
Another question. Broyles face looked dried out. The observer offered him water and told him he needs to hydrate. Did something happen to the water? So many questions (already articulated by fans above).
Amazing episode it flew by so many answers and new questions. I am really hoping for season 5.
Like:
3
I have a crazy idea
i think when the fringe team got amberized olivia wasn’t there (or william bell didn’t allow her to get in amber) and i believe she is still alive and if we see next events of this episode she’ll be found by peter and walter and etta
i hope so
sorry for my english
Like:
4
RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!
Like:
4
OMG, I just watched the first 40 seconds, and they are mind-blowing!
Like:
1
I didn’t get this episode.
Why did the Observers take over? Why are these Observers different? Where is the other universe? Why is it that the Observers can still time-travel even though they are only a possible future (apparently, ever future has them in it)? There was just a lot missing that helped to detach me from this episode.
The twists were also way too obvious, the villains quite cartoony, and the pacing quite slow.
I also didn’t understand why Walter was so different to what we’re used to (in season 4 or in those now-unnecessary seasons beforehand) after his mind was repaired, or why they wasted sooooooo much time on Walter’s memory issue.
And I’ve heard mention that the machine might no be in this future. If they do that, won’t that conflict with the fact of the machine being tied to a paradox? Yes, it would. But this hasn’t been covered yet.
This episode just lacked a lot of information, and for me was just too obvious, slow, and ultimately dull. I liked the premise, but like everything else in season 4 it lacked sufficient detail as to why it was the way it was.
And the Bell thing was just befuddling (won’t they just let that character stay dead!?).
It was lackluster for me. I don’t know how I would have felt if there was more information involved, but at the moment I didn’t get it and therefore I did not like it.
But I haven’t liked Fringe for so long. Maybe I’m just too distanced from the show now that I can’t get into it – no matter how much I try.
Like:
4
oh how these typos grate at me…
Like:
3
This episode was probably my favourite of the season, but as i have said in other posts its lack of context is just confusing. I was also confused about why the observers took over, but if earth was poisoned in the future and they came back in time, maybe the only way they thought they could prevent the human race from destroying earth was to rule over them? but that dosent really explain why they were such a**h*les*
Like:
5
I cracked up during the whole “their world was destroyed…but thankfully the had a time machine”
I don’t understand how these Observers relate to the “scientists” who were literally just observing. I was also a little confused how they would manage to poison the world considering that all their technology looks generally clean.
Context was definitely missing. Technology-less. telepathic, and sexual Observers? Where did that all come from?
Hot debate. What do you think?
8
Did you also find the opening crawl incredibly cliche? because I did, I didnt like it at all.
Like:
4
I did
Like:
3
I also don’t understand how the future the Observers come from can still exist/be accessible. Everything has changed, everything, yet their existence hasn’t.
It’s odd.
Like:
3
Yes because if they changed the future and prevented the earth from being poisoned or whatever then surely they would no longer exist. For a second i entertained the thought that they had some kind of technology that allowed them to be immune from changes in time, but the concept of that is too ridiculous even for Fringe
Like:
3
lol Wait for it…
Like:
1
It’s paradox time ! Even the top scientists in this world cannot answer the questions about Time Travel with full confidence. Before we got a real time machine and did experiment to see what would happen if you changed your past, no one will have a definite answer.
Observers go back in time and change history, observers no longer exist because future is changed. No observers, and no one to change the original course of history, and the observer’s future exist again. Then observers change the history again.
See ? It is pointless to question your questions about time travel because there is no answer.
Like:
3
*pointless to “answer” your questions about time travel
Like:
0
If wyman and pinkner explain the time travel in the show with your explanation of “there is no answer” i will renounce the show and urinate on my fringe dvds!
Like:
2
I’m not saying that the writers have no answers. I’m saying that there are no definite answers so every answers could be true or wrong. And now we are in the universe of Fringe (technically, the universe of the writers), since there is no absolute answer, we should just stop questioning and accept that these are the settings and rules of this universe.
Like:
1
What occurs in the Fringe universe still needs to have its own rules. Time travel continuously changing and contradicting itself; this is an issue that needs to be fixed, and an element that needs to be clearly defined.
What can and cannot happen – this is what needs to be established. When the show does whatever it likes, there’s just no grounding its reality.
Like:
0
Can you make a Youtube video of that?
Like:
0
With Fringe and its parallel universe, I could accept the idea that possible futures do all exist simultaneously and that it’s only a matter of what outcome this universe links branches towards (like a tree diagram, and the idea of separate ends with determining means), but there are issues whether that’s the case of not.
Either we have what you explained regarding the time-traveler ceasing to exist, or we have the time-traveler isolating themselves from their original time-line. In either case, these new Observers shouldn’t have been able to get here.
Like:
1
Why must I keep forgetting to proof-read my work before I hit ‘submit’…
Like:
0
If you want instant gratification, you are watching the wrong show.
Life on Fringe has never been that easy for the big answers. It is all about the set-up and the pay-off.
Well-loved. Like:
20
This episode lacked set-up and pay-off, so what does that leave us with?
I’m surprised there isn’t more outrage about this season on this website. The possibility of the last three seasons being made redundant had many up in arms a few months ago, then ‘A Short Story About Love’ came along and confirmed it, yet there was hardly a murmur.
I don’t trust these writers, plain and simple. And I truly believe that they don’t know what they’re doing.
Hot debate. What do you think?
9
First, let’s assume the first 3 seasons are made redundant. By “redundant”, I presume you mean they have zero impact on the story development in season 4. Then why can’t you accept season 4 as if it was a brand new show ?
If you cannot consider season 4 as the first season of a some new show, you are implying the existence of previous seasons of the show (aka seasons 1-3). But at the same time you are saying the first 3 seasons are redundant.
Besides, the first three seasons are not made redundant. We have Olivia and Peter who possess the old memories. We have re-visited some old story and extended its content and importance. We have resurrected some old characters and continue their unfinished business. All of these have connections with the first 3 seasons. The writers are also answering some questions laid in previous seasons.
And, in case you miss the interview and news, this episode is very important for this show because it IS a seed of season 5. And the writers are gonna wrap up as many things as possible in season 4 finale, possibly leaving no open ends if season 5 doesn’t come to pass. Clear goal and direction, the writers have their own plan.
Before The End of All things, no one was expecting the return of the Beacon which was considered a abandoned plot by most of us. And the fact is we got answer after waiting for years. Although the answer is not complete and not satisfactory, it is still a proof that writers have not forgotten anything. It’s just a matter of time before the writers’ plan is revealed.
Well-loved. Like:
14
i don’t know about Dylan, but for me at least, being asked to completely ignore the events of three seasons into which i have invested emotionally is absolutely ridiculous, especially when this “new show” that they have replaced it with is completely lacking in logic and continuity. In the first three seasons, we were lead to believe that the utlimate goal was to bring peace between and restore the two universes, and yet just recently that conflict was given a complete handwave when Altliv said “don’t know how it works; don’t care.” That single line completely pisses over all of the investment i had in that conflict. Its basically like the writers saying “hey, y’know that thing that you cared about? Forget about it. We’re doing something different now.”
I agree with Dylan. It is amazing that more people on this site are not up in arms over this. Then again, maybe the fans who would agree are the ones who have been systematically dropping viewership… For all the effort you guys put into figuring out why the ratings are so low, I’d say the answer is pretty clear. People can only take so much B.S. before they get pissed and leave.
Hot debate. What do you think?
9
“emotional investment”, forgot to add that.
See here, Darth Kate summarizes it perfectly.
Like:
4
But the fact is you are not asked to completely ignore the events of three seasons. Same words as I mentioned on the post above : we are still re-visiting the old story and dead ends, few shows can use a old story to enrich the present plot development like Fringe.
I understand the emotional investment, but now we have our Olivia and Peter back, Walter is returning to our loved ones, and this is the pay off of your emotional investment. The characters are still the same.
Even if you don’t consider the season 4 characters are the same ones in season 1-3, just do what Alt-Astrid told us : ” Wouldn’t it be preferable if you chose to believe they were our characters, and then you could love them and be happy ? ”
Fringe is not perfect show and you can criticize it based on plot holes or something like that. But feeling depressed because you don’t like how the plot develops ? Sorry, no writers can write a story that satisfies everyone. In my case, if I feel emotionally detached from a show, ” Wouldn’t it be preferable if I chose to believe my show was gone, and then I could leave it and be happy ? “
Like:
3
Other than knowing the ins and outs of this work (how it works, why it is the way it is, etc.), not knowing why any of what we’re seeing was necessary development is a little annoying.
I mean really, in terms of the Fringe narrative, what is the point of season 4? And even though Olivia’s memories somehow made their way back into her head, we have no payoff for the Olivia that season 4 set up – her issues, and everyone else who hasn’t had their memories return. And besides, we would much rather see our characters resolving their issues where they belong (seasons 1-3), and not in season 4′s setting.
Like:
3
Just letting go isn’t easy.
We loved Fringe, and loved it enough that we’re not going to just give up on it – we’re going to stick out as long as we possibly can in the hope that it might redeem itself. For me, that’s the end of season 4 – only a matter of weeks away.
Like:
2
If it is hard to let go of the show, then accept it.
“choose to believe they were our characters, and then you could love them and be happy”
Complaining doesn’t help. And all these complaints are depriving you of the chance to enjoy a show, unless the your interest is to watch Fringe in order to criticize its downsides and you actually enjoy making complaints. (I doubt this is the case)
As for a ordinary viewer who seeks joy in a TV show, leave it or love it, everyone is doing that (and this is why the ratings suck, people won’t watch and complain at the same time)
Like:
1
There are several things wrong with this, and this post I did not enjoy.
1) I’m not going to watch a show and pretend it’s better than it actually is. If that’s the principal that so many here actually live by, then that doesn’t really lend much to the “Fringe is masterful television” argument, does it? I didn’t have to delude myself into liking Fringe during the past three seasons, why should I be forced to do it now?
2) “complaining doesn’t help”? Then how else would the writers recognize a problem? That’s like saying that I should not report crime when I see it happen, because if I don’t then crime will cease to exist.
3) You realize you just told me and everyone else who doesn’t like any aspect of the show to either “like it or get out”, right?
4) So, you agree that the weekly decline in viewership is due to audience members not liking what the show has become/is doing? Doesn’t that logic then immediately justify everything that I and many others have been saying for months now?
…we’ve all been running in circles for months, and here we are running in circles again…
Like:
6
1. “Then how else would the writers recognize a problem?”
Because some complaints are not about problems. Some complaints are about personal feelings towards the plot.
If you find a plot hole, you can complain and let the writers know.
If you simply don’t like the story, it’s not the writers’ problem, it’s your problem. You cannot control how a story develops because this is the writers’ story.
2. “You realize you just told me and everyone else who doesn’t like any aspect of the show to either “like it or get out”, right?”
You just say that you can’t love this show any more, and you cannot force yourself to love it again. Then why bother to force yourself to do something you don’t like (aka watching Fringe) ?
If you like the show but you think the show could have got better, say it, and no one will blame you.
If you don’t like the show, and you force yourself to keep watching it just to let yourself have something to complain, sorry, no offense, but I’m gonna say this is a bit pathetic unless your job is a TV critic.
3. “So, you agree that the weekly decline in viewership is due to audience members not liking what the show has become/is doing?”
Yes, not everyone can accept the plot development of Fringe but don’t forget that there are also people LOVING the current plot.
Look at the ratings record, so far we have lost half million viewers since Season 4. So this means at least half million viewers not loving season 4.
Loo at Season 1-3, we have lost millions of viewers over these seasons. And there are at least millions of viewers not loving seasons 1-3.
I’m not using the numbers to illustrate the quality of the different seasons. Ratings drop because people are not forced to watch Fringe. What I’ve been trying to tell you is, you are like those people, you can drop this show and have a happier life with another show.
If you really don’t want to drop this show, don’t make yourself suffer, ok ? Just try to love the show, things only get better if you let go of the bad things and appreciate the good aspects.
Like:
4
Start to get tired of this debate….you have a solid argument anyway, not sure if I convince you if we go further.
I’m not coming back, but I hope you take my advice :
Life is short, don’t force yourself to watch a show you don’t like, there are many good shows out there.
You can of course complain about a show, but when your sole purpose of watching a show is to make complaints, it’s time to turn you eyes onto something better.
Like:
4
Because I was invested in the first three seasons and still await resolution on many of those plot threads.
Because I am, for all intents and purposes, traumatized by the actions those behind the show have taken regarding the narrative.
If I knew that the Fringe writers were going to continue with their show, even when against the real possibility of cancellation, and go “let’s do a reset!”, I would have stopped watching after season 3.
Fringe, for me, has become a mess of gimmicks and misdirections. Even when LOST played around with its narrative, it never forgot what it was about and what mattered most. This is no longer my Fringe, and I can’t help but view it as a shapeshifter that’s taken its appearance and is now struggling to maintain it.
And when I hear about the producers’ comments and “answers”, I just recall the ‘walter built the machine’ reveal and feel sick inside.
Like:
5
do you always have to jump in with a lecture? Everyone here knows what the show is about. We wouldn’t waste time here if we didn’t. And in case you haven’t noticed, the payoff this season has been crap for the most part. They’ve already hand-waved both the healing of the redverse and peter’s existence in this timeline with completely void explanations.
Like:
5
I agree with Kate (savour this Kate) I dont come on a site dedicated for fans of Fringe because im not a fan. They took 15 episodes to basically get back to where we were at the end of season 3 minus the love triangle/henry and every other characters memories apart from olivia and peters. Tbh, whattttttttt…..the……………nobbycheeseeeee!
Like:
5
Exactly. There has been absolutely no point to the alternate timeline at all and the few interesting character things that they have done are not worth all of the inconsistencies that have arisen.
Like:
6
They wanted to separate P/O and then bring them back together. You have to understand
We are talking about Armor Pinker and Eros Wyman after all.
Like:
2
PinkNer
Like:
1
POINTLESS!!!
Like:
3
I agree, but they don’t
Like:
2
“I also didn’t understand why Walter was so different to what we’re used to (in season 4 or in those now-unnecessary seasons beforehand) after his mind was repaired, or why they wasted sooooooo much time on Walter’s memory issue.”
Because Walter has returned to his old arrogant self after the brain repair. If the writers continue the story, the brain damage plot will be a seed for Walter to return to the man who doesn’t care about consequences of action (aka breaking universes for one child)
“Why did the Observers take over?”
It’s explained in the episode
“Why are these Observers different? ”
You can’t expect everyone in a population to do the same exact thing. ( Not all observers are satisfied with mere observation, some wants to control the past instead)
Like:
7
After saying all these things, I don’t think I can make you to love this show again. I do hope that you could realize that the reason you are unable to enjoy season 4 is not the reset of history but some of the common concepts about TV show you hold in mind such as :
1. Protagonists never die (or reset in the case of Fringe). Even if they lose memories, they must regain their memories soon.
2. Questions raised in a particular episode must be answered in that episode, or, at the very least, in the same season.
Fringe is exploring every inch of possibility of story telling (Reset everything to resolve dead ends, introduce alternate characters to let us see different sides of a person) and testing the limit of viewers. This is the reason Fringe got so popular ( of course on Internet only )
Like:
7
I disagree, and no that’s not what I prioritize (refer to Darth Kate’s response to your previous “abandoning the last three seasons…” post).
1. This is 21st century television, where protagonists die all the time. I don’t think anyone under 40 still believes in that.
2. That is not the issue. Answers must come organically, and not be spelled out through exposition in a random scene that comes out of nowhere.
“Fringe is exploring every inch of possibility of story telling…”
There comes a time when that shifts from creativity to plain use of gimmicks to “spice things up” (see ‘soul magnets’).
I don’t think I can love this show again. My investment and trust in the show and writers has been shattered.
Like:
3
“This is 21st century television, where protagonists die all the time. I don’t think anyone under 40 still believes in that.”
Then what makes you complain about the reset of characters ? You can kill a protagonist but you can’t reset him/her ?
“That is not the issue. Answers must come organically, and not be spelled out through exposition in a random scene that comes out of nowhere.”
Could you give me an example of answers coming out of nowhere ? I can’t find it because no matter how the answers come, something must have happened and led to the coming of answers.
Like:
1
Because killing a protagonist is concluding their journey, resetting everything provides no resolution regarding the original character and their journey and trials.
By “out of nowhere”, I mean revelatory scenes that are almost just tacked on to the end of episodes (‘A Short Story About Love’) or in a random subplot that fails to connect or even parallel the key storyline (‘The End Of All Things’). These questions are significant, and something of such significance deserves more attention than what they were received. The way the answers were given, and the way those situations came about, had an almost…anticlimactic, and therefore dissatisfying, response to them.
For example,
- Peter finds September’s apartment (for some reason he has an apartment).
- Peter finds his stuff (something I would have expected December to have gone and collected, seeing how important some of it was)
- Peter summons the beacon (which if so easy, why didn’t September just do that in ‘The Arrival’?)
- Peter releases September from the beacon. September explains what the beacon is, the beacon disappears, and September leaves.
- End of episode.
The above isn’t quite what that little mystery deserved, it was literally at the end of the episode (there was more time given to the case-of-the-week), etc. these revelations deserved a much bigger episode, more screen time, and shouldn’t have all been squashed into a single scene. This is kind of like when a twist comes out of nowhere, with no set-up towards it.
Like:
3
It is subjective to say whether the answers are good or bad, but, at the very least, the writers have not forgotten the mysteries, and they do have answers and plans in mind. (Laughing at you, Lost !)
Fringe has been one of the most consistent shows with only a few plot holes while having such a complex back story to tell. It’s miracle that the writers are not simply dropping the plots in season 1. They have been trying to solve those dead ends instead of dodging the hard work and saying “Everything reset, those dead ends are gone!”. Such dedicated efforts are worth our compliment, not complaints.
Like:
3
Some things are subjective, but strength in writing can actually be measured.
And there is strong evidence against the idea that the writers know what they’re doing, given the very nature of season 4 and its immediate discontinuation of the events of the first three seasons (which consequently wiped out any hope of dangling plot threads being resolved – and we’re not talking minor plot threads either). And must I bring up the ‘walter built the machine’ thing again? There is no better example of the writers producing information with no evidence to back it up and which manages to both contradict and further ignore everything previously established.
And speaking of LOST, it managed to deliver a resolution to its beginning and middle, something Fringe is no longer capable to performing as a consequence of this reset. LOST may not have been perfect, but it destroys Fringe in terms of overall quality.
“Fringe has been one of the most consistent shows with only a few plot holes while having such a complex back story to tell”
Actually, when you look at it, Fringe has quite a simple backstory (at least did, before they messed everything up with, again, season 4). And “only a few plot holes”? Adding to the running theme here, not any more thanks to season 4…
“It’s miracle that the writers are not simply dropping the plots in season 1″
It’s too early to say that, because there are a lot of dead ends still existing.
“They have been trying to solve those dead ends instead of dodging the hard work and saying “Everything reset, those dead ends are gone!”.
That’s actually kind of what they did. Remember Henry? Remember the lack of explanation for how they activated the machine with his blood (quite literally, how did they substitute a man standing there with a sample of blood)? Remember the lack of explanation of why Walternate didn’t take Peter’s blood on the multiple occasions that he had the chance to if it was a plan b there entire time? Remember how the shapeshifters were aware of William Bell being a traitor at the beginning of season 2, yet by the end of the season no one on the Other Side is apparently aware of Bell’s plans or the fact that he even exists? Remember how Fauxlivia’s entire mission was about her getting this piece from the machine and then it being returned to Walternate on the other side and then Walternate not using it for anything and it making no difference to the performance of the machine on our side? Remember how the machine is a paradox tied to the blue universe and yet it exists in the red as well? Remember how the machine was made to bridge the universes by Peter but then Peter was made to not exist but still existed somehow and somewhere else, his bridge still remained somehow, and then he returned somehow, from somewhere? Or how red-universe Peter was allowed to drown in this universe (still our universe, apparently) yet Peter managed to return – making there to be two versions of red Peter and a version of blue Peter (three Peters) in this altered timeline that according to September in ‘A short story about love’ is our timeline? blah blah blah, onwards to infinity. Fringe had plot holes before, especially towards the end of season 3, but season 4 has shown more plot holes than there have been red and blue colours on screen.
“Such dedicated efforts are worth our compliment, not complaints”
And I did compliment those efforts…back when they were deserved
Like:
5
Yes, those questions/inconsistencies annoy me too.
William Bell must be one of the most inconstistent TV characters ever. What did he ever want? I don’t know.
Personally, I can’t take Fringe seriously anymore in terms of “logic” or “consistency”. It’s a ness.
I just enjoy it for what it is, but I don’t expect too much.
Like:
4
“Lincless”: that name is pure awesomeness
Like:
2
@Surun Tunne
Agh no reply button again. Yes that is true, but we never found out what information was on the discs from season 3 so although Peter may have gained some knowledge from decrypting them, we as the audience never found out what happened. Which is incredibly frustrating considering Bellivia told him where the encryption key was (his office) and was never acted on, on screen.
Like:
2
Dylan may i also bring your attention to the episode “reciprocity” which is basically a plot hole, as the story continued like it never happened, i think the back end of season 3 would have been better if they continued with that arc
Like:
3
Oops, how did I forget ‘Reciprocity’? Better yet, how did the writers forget it?
Like:
2
I think because peter was working on those shapeshifter data-disc he was able to help the team in 405 novation to find the new shapeshifters
(when broyles asked him how he knows so much about those discs he said: because I’ve decrypted a couple of them myself)
Like:
2
@Surun Tunne
For some reason my comment has gone even further up :S
Like:
1
that is true but I think I remember that it was said once that those discs simply contained infos about the missions and targets of the shapeshifters etc.
the important thing was that peter was able to decrypt them and because of that he could help the team in 405 and that was his opportunity to gain their trust…
so reciprocity actually was/is a very important episode
Like:
1
I also have the reply issue again! so annoying!
Like:
1
that device bolivia stole from over here was used in combination with henrys blood.
of course the machine still exists, it has to because peter used it to bridge the universes. when peter was erased, the machine and the bridge still had to be there…it’s a paradox. end of story.
and it has been hinted more than one this season that in the rewritten timeline, the team thought the machine activated itself. of course it didn’t, it was still peter but because he was erased, their memories had been overwritten and that’s why they can’t remember that it was actually peter.
the machine is not just tied to the blue-verse, it’s tied to both universes, they both had to be in the same place in both of them so that the bridge could be created.
“Or how red-universe Peter was allowed to drown in this universe (still our universe, apparently) yet Peter managed to return – making there to be two versions of red Peter and a version of blue Peter”
WHAT?!
Like:
0
that post above was supposed to be a reply to Dylan…
Like:
1
Don’t worry, I found it.
“That device Bolivia stole…”
Where are you getting that information from?
“Of course the machine still exists…”
Peter is tied to that paradox.
“and it has been hinted…”
No explanation for how that happened, and for how Peter was both erased and how he returned (and where he returned from). And as I mentioned earlier, with red Peter having drowned, this means that there are three Peters in this timeline and yet September explained in ‘A Short Story About Love’ that this is his original timeline. So, how is any of this possible?
“the machine is not just…”
You misunderstand. I’m asking how the machine could be sent back in time from the future of the blue universe, where the red universe had been destroyed, and yet there can be a machine in both the blue universe and the red universe. Also, Walternate’s drawings of Olivia, Peter, and the machine are all different to the ones the blue side had and were supposed to have been destroyed after the universe was destroyed and yet they still exist (in other words, not even the paradox makes sense).
lol and the 3 Peter thing. Think about it,
- there was blue Peter who died of his illness.
- In this universe, September didn’t save red Peter from drowning and so he died.
- Our Peter then returns as an adult, but that doesn’t change the fact that prior to his return both red Peter and blue Peter had died. Making there three Peters where there should only be two.
Like:
0
btw, since the ‘reply’ buttons have disappeared…
While the shapeshifter disks were brought up again after ‘Reciprocity’, Bellivia telling Peter how to crack them was ignored and Olivia having just found out Peter was the killer was ignored afterwards as well.
The most infuriating thing about ‘Reciprocity’ is the fact that Peter having just become weaponized by the machine was completely forgotten about afterwards.
Like:
0
“That device Bolivia stole…”
“Where are you getting that information from?”
we have seen that this device was (instead of peter in the blueverse) the power source to activate the machine. but the devise alone couldn’t “replace” peter so they also needed his DNA (henrys blood) to activate it.
)
(but please don’t ask me how they combined the DNA with the device
I cant tell you in what episode(s) we have seen this but I’m sure we have!
“You misunderstand. I’m asking how the machine could be sent back in time from the future of the blue universe, where the red universe had been destroyed, and yet there can be a machine in both the blue universe and the red universe.”
ok, now I get what you mean and I don’t know how that could happen either…
“- there was blue Peter who died of his illness.
- In this universe, September didn’t save red Peter from drowning and so he died.
- Our Peter then returns as an adult, but that doesn’t change the fact that prior to his return both red Peter and blue Peter had died. Making there three Peters where there should only be two.”
yes, our (red) peter died because of the rewritten timeline…but the peter that reappeared was the same peter who drowned…but since this IS his universe (just rewritten) in which he stayed alive he came back to this universe….uhm I’m not really sure if it makes sence how I tried to explain it…I can only say that it makes sense to me. I just can’t explain it better…
…”(and where he returned from)”
he was nowhere, he didn’t exist. where should he have been?
“The most infuriating thing about ‘Reciprocity’ is the fact that Peter having just become weaponized by the machine was completely forgotten about afterwards.”
I think this whole “he got weaponized” thing wasn’t really a fact, just a theory by walter…
but peter said he killed the shapeshifters just because he finally wanted some answers and not: I don’t know why I am doing this, I think the machine weaponized me”
Like:
2
I for one think it would have been far cooler if the machine had kind of possessed peter to kill all the shapeshifters, it would be very difficult to explain, but i think that would have been cool.
Like:
1
@JM
I’m not really sure if that would’ve been that cool..I think this would have taken the show into a very difficult and tricky direction.
(I know that some people think the show didn’t take the right direction but as I’ve said earlier, I am)
Like:
1
…”I am” – happy with the current direction
Like:
1
@Surun Tunne
Thinking about it again your probably right, ill still think it would be better if they had pursued that storyline in some form throughout the rest of the season though.
Like:
1
@ Dylan
wait a second, I think because the machine was sent back in time (to a time before the red universe was destroyed) it could still exist in both universes, it doesnt matter that the red universe was destroyed at the time they sent it back
Like:
1
@ JM
well, I think, after fringe ends with season 5, they should start again at season one and calling the show “FRINGE REWRITTEN”
this way people could see what directions they like better!
would be kinda difficult ratings-wise though but whatever! ^^
Like:
0
Oh right, the missing brain pieces somehow repairing everything else – even the damaged parts of the brain (didn’t know grey matter was able to repair neural pathways).
“It’s explained in this episode”
Not thoroughly. And I didn’t appreciate that September’s new story about the Observers and their purpose that he gave to Walter is completely different from the one he gave Peter.
“Why are these Observers different”
There’s a difference between personality and biology.
Like:
2
Don’t read into the tone of this post btw, it’s against the writers and not against you.
I’m actually quite enjoying our dialogue, hui.
Like:
2
The problem with Fringe is that there are no rules. The idea of science and science-fiction is that there are processes to every result, however, Fringe is nowadays playing with magic and only calling it science.
This is another reason why the answers aren’t so satisfying. It’s fine to use magic when it’s established at the beginning of the narrative as existing or having existed, but when it comes out of nowhere…
Like:
3
“There’s a difference between personality and biology.”
I haven’t found any changes in the observers’ biology….
Like:
1
The telepathy and ability to now kill people with their thoughts? That was new.
It was only a few episodes ago that were shown that the Observers needed technology to do what they did.
Before even that, Observers used guns and hand-to-hand conflict.
Before even that, Observers had other people fight for them.
Like:
3
Having new abilities doesn’t make them different. Maybe it’s just the personal choice of the observers, some want to kill using guns while some want to use their mind, who knows ?
And it is still possible that the observers are relying on technology for their abilities but they just hide the device in their pockets.
Of course I’m just filling some plot holes by myself but there are infinite possibilities and all depend on your own interpretation. This is why you can’t blame the writers for giving something new to the observers, especially when the writers haven’t made it clear what the observers are capable and incapable of.
Like:
2
Occam’s Razor
Like:
0
Honestly, I think, at this point, all the observers have the makings to become a((hats, but we really haven’t connected onscreen with any Observers besides September and August, who’s emotionally connections grounded them firmly with compassion for the human race.
I can, realistically, see Dec, and March, and July and the rest of them as a future Nazi Supremacy though. They seem rather indifferent and passive towards the concerns of any future besides their own.
Like:
2
I don’t reckon they would. December has always seemed to be the most concerned about maintaining their status as just observers of historical events.
Like:
6
For what I understand, just September help us fight, and died in the process … so maybe that shot that we see on him in 4 x 14 … but anyway … is really dificult to see if the other Observers will became that bad and try to, in a way, steal our planet.
Unless they think that we don’t have any salvation and that our planet is better in their hands (NOT !)
Like:
7
”These aren’t the droids you’re looking for”
best line ever!
Like:
2
It was simply brilliant. The best episode of the entire season if not two seasons.
Can I just say how perfect Nina/Walter scene was? Well, I’m saying – it was perfect.
Like:
5
If this would be a movie, it would win an Oscar!
Like:
4
We have to re-difine PERFECTION!
Like:
2
One scary future!
Like:
2
It was kind of Terminator: Salvation style.
Like:
4
It’s interesting, this is the second episode without Anna Torv.
Like:
4
I wonder what William Bell did to Olivia, maybe Walter wasn’t referring just to Cortexiphan, maybe William Bell did something that killed Olivia.
Like:
1
Hope to see more of that future world!
Like:
3
Me too i loved 2036 storyline but it has to have Olivia included!
Well-loved. Like:
14
Yeah, I miss Olivia!
Hope to see this future again, but this time a little change for we can see Olivia
Well-loved. Like:
14
Yes me too !I want to see this future only when Olivia is also in it! I also want to see Olivia reunited with her daughter Etta I don’t want a possible season5 without Liv!
Hot debate. What do you think?
8
Oh yeah, for sure, she’s not dead. I think that’s the point of Willy’s ‘hand’ being taken. Astrid mentioned something to Walter about getting ‘access’ and I think this has to do with the place Olivia, in whatever state she’s in, is being held.
I’ve no doubt whatsoever that they’ve found a way to thwart Olivia’s certain doom, regardless of whatever consequences they now have to face. Hey, Peter’s done it once already, so who’s to say they can’t infringe on her sure-footed fate again?
Well-loved. Like:
14
On the other hand, they’ve opened the door for a Season 5 (IF we get a Season 5) in which Anna Torv’s role could be cut completely, or reduced to just a couple of guest appearances. Not that I think any of us are hoping for this, but it may be something for the showrunners/network to consider as a cost-cutting measure.
Like:
3
The only reason I can forsee with her role being cut completely or reduced in anyway is because the actress herself wants it to be.
Well-loved. Like:
10
I believe JJ earns the most of the cast, so I don’t think it’ll be about reducing costs…If she gets out, it would be because they wrote the story that way. And while we are at it, I would certainly stop watching Fringe if her roll will become like any other housewife with a husband and child, that’s too boring. (I have a lot of that in my real life, and in comedies). Also I don’t like reading here that Etta would be called Etta Bishop. Why oh why!! all the women loose their last names when they get married?…that’s insane, as it is also being called as someone belonging to the husband where I live i.e.”Olivia Dunham de Bishop”, haha…..INDIVIDUALITY!!!
Well-loved. Like:
15
Oh I believe that she is alive, maybe hidden … after all she was always the strong one, she can be dead … She was hidden for the greater good!
Well-loved. Like:
14
I don’t think they’d cut down her role at all in a Fifth Season. For one thing, the producers love Anna too much and so do we. I’d like to believe, if Season 5 is the last, we’ll see tons of her instead of less.
Well-loved. Like:
19
Olivia Dunham is what Fringe is all about. If she were to be cut or if her role were to be reduced, it wouldn’t see like Fringe anymore.
Well-loved. Like:
21
I’ll drop Fringe in a heartbeat if Anna Torv leaves.
Like:
1
Brilliant episode, except the fact you would expect more tech advances in 20+ years from now
If they stick to this story, I expect them to fill in the gaps by continuing regular timeline which will result with this episode. The finale of the next season could be that moment.. and we could see a different leading cast if it gets another season where we fight the Observers?
Can’t say it’s the best one yet, but it surely is among my favorite episodes.
Like:
5
We were under ”supervision” of Observers, it’s logical that they didn’t want us to be too advanced.
Like:
3
It occurred to me ass well, since they want to preserve the Earth from the future with unsuitable conditions for life, but it still looks a bit common if they wanted to provide some tech that could lead to “better future”.
Like:
0
Yeah when they did the first promos, not only did it seem like 1984, but also had a certain “Planet of the Apes” feel, where the takeover left the human race in subjugation.
Like:
1
Make sense that we don’t have so many tech available for us!
If we have, probably sooner or later, we going to find a way to fight back!
You see, even without the advance they find a way to put the Observers out !!!
Like:
4
I dunno, if you compare the world 20 years ago, (1992), not all that much changed. PCs and mobile phones were there, cars are basically the same (if somewhat greener and better equiped), GSM networks and WWW existed, compact disc was around, Hubble Space Telescope was up… IMO we even reverted a bit in areas such as space tech without Mir space station and space shuttles around and with cuts to the science and space budgets around the world, maglev trains are the only thing that 2036 seems to have more developed (that tech we also have today but don’t build).. I mean I like my iPad and all of that but I’d rather see them try spinning a portion of the ISS and making some artificial gravity experiments or maybe consider building an orbital lift, capturing a mineral rich asteroid and bringing it close to orbit or something.. We seem to have slowed down, and I don’t like it…
Like:
4
An Easter egg I am interested in knowing about: What’s with the shell casing Etta was wearing as a necklace? The first time she touched it was a coda back to Olivia giving Ella the cross in Over There. The second time she handled it (just before her talk with Peter) was…more than pensive and wistful, almost deep, DEEP longing.
That shell casing is going to be a big part of the narrative if season 5 really happens.
Like:
4
The first time she touches it is when she sees Ambered Walter in the back of the van, right? I’m pretty sure I noticed her touch it more than twice.
ps. good job using ‘handled’ instead of ‘touch’ ~the extra touch is a bit much
Like:
1
Did anyone else notice, during the close up of the bullet, it had an indentation on it that looked like that of a tooth. Of course, it could be from the instrument that extracted it from wherever / whoever it was lodged in. Still, my first thought was a tooth mark.
Like:
1
My god i just finished watching! bloody freaking fantastic episode! i still cant get over how good it was!
Best ever episode! 10/10. The acting was fantastic and bam i knew Etta was gonna be Polivia daughter, and it was so beautiful at the end when she gets to see her daddy for the first time in 20 years!
William Bell WTGFHSGDH…. i screamed out loud when i saw him.
are they gonna continue on with this story/timeline if we get a season 5 because they way it ended seems like that and they cant leave us hanging after such a fantastic episode! And in my opinion this episode ended to soon and should have been movie length lol
p.s I missed Olivia but at least we got to see her DNA in Etta
Like:
7
And let me add that the last scene between Peter & Etta was beautiful and it made me have tears and i hope to see one between Olivia and Etta
Well-loved. Like:
15
I agree with you !!! It was beautiful!!
Like:
5
The last scene between Peter and Etta made me think of the picture on the fridge in season 3. Peter and Olivia had a girl (yay!!) In the scene it was just father and daughter sharing a close moment, but mom (Olivia) wasn’t there in the moment. In the picture the girl is only holding her father’s hand…maybe implying that Peter and Olivia’s daughter may have a closer relationship to her father than her mother (for reasons we don’t know…say like Olivia is killed as the Observer perdicted…during Etta’s youth.)
It may be nothing…but any real Fringe fan worth their grain of salt knows there aren’t many coincidences in Fringe…
I can’t wait for next week’s episode….
Well-loved. Like:
21
OK, another interesting tidbit from this episode: The guard/cop that Simon, Etta, and Walter encountered at the train/subway station had the number 1776 marked on the right side of his face. Ironic that a loyalist and SS trooper would have a mark of freedom.
Like:
4
And seems to be the Observer’s writing for ‘Heed’
Ref: http://seriable.com/fringe-letters-of-transit-teaser-1-offers-glimpse-into-totalitarian-spoiler/
Like:
0
The club’s bouncer has the word ‘Obey’.
Like:
1
It’s difficult to see, but I think the soldiers with the Observer, have the word ‘Serve’.
Like:
0
One word :
WONDERFUL ./..
Like:
6
Yet one more tidbit: In the opening crawl, the words “The Observers” are in red. Is this the RedVerse? Fringe HQ certainly looks like it. The Fringe Team logo certainly gives it that appearance. But then there is Massive Dynamic, which is BlueVerse. Is this the CollapsedVerse (or more aptly put, PurpleVerse)?
Like:
4
OK, one last tidbit. For now.
Did anyone else pick-up on the fact that in this year’s #19,Walter talked about how much he liked LSD, which was the title (in long form) of last year’s #19?
Like:
3
All I can say is, that I’m confused. I enjoyed parts of the episode, and as a die-hard LOST fan, to have Ian Cusick back in action again was great. But… it was totally… well, weird. There are so many questions. Why did the Observers take over? Where are the original “scientist” Observers? Is September really dead? Why are these Observers so different from the ones we know? What happened to Olivia? Why did the Fringe team amber themselves? Why is William Bell alive, and what did he do to Olivia? I think it’s pretty clear that this episode was a test season opener, of sorts, for season five. I do hope we get another season, to answer some of these questions. Until I have answers however, I won’t feel anything for this episode. Completely out of context, and lacking a true focus. Just, dare I say it… weird.
Well-loved. Like:
10
I agree mostly. I have mixed feelings.
The episode had good aspects, but it felt very strange. Our regular cast was hardly there, I don’t think this helps ratings (although Lincoln’s absence was pleasing, thank you!).
I think it just raised too many questions, especially concerning William Bell. Why raise even more questions about a character if you can’t bring him back on screen (because the actor retired) and answer them? I don’t get it.
And (as someone else said) it was too disconntected from the current story line. Brown Betty was useful because it emphasized Peter’s absence. LSD was at least completing soul magnets. But this?
You can’t win viewers with such a lousy continuation. My opinion.
Like:
7
Why would they need lots of ladies escort anyway? To observed?????
Like:
2
The best thing and the worst thing of the episode: It’s like watching a new show all over again!!!
This would serve well as a Fringe-reboot pilot or something, but for something to be inserted here…
Yeah, fantastic but non-relevant unless we get a season 5…
Anyway whatsoever, waiting for next week and hopefully season 5…
Like:
5
um, wow. I think people are blowing this episode way out of proportion. It was neat, but jeez…
Like:
5
Don’t we do that to every episode?…;)
Hot debate. What do you think?
9
With me i tend to think its amazing to begin with, then slowly turn to the negative until i dont think its that good anymore
Like:
4
not like this. 217 people just called it the best ever episode even though very little actually happened.
Like:
5
At 830 (halfway through) I looked at the clock and thought “halfway through and we’ve learned nothing from this.”
Like:
5
Honestly after watching it a second time I thought it was much better than I first thought. I thought it was a little lackluster at first. The second time around I kind of got it. I think they were just trying to introduce us to this future and kind of get comfortable with it and the characters and situation as well. It was just a quick snippet of a longer more complex going on in that possible future and I thought it was great the way it was meant to be taken. The characters were great and the whole setting had a feeling of hopelessness until we saw Walter and of course the rest of the gang (minus Olivia of course
). It is supposed to be a seed that will flourish in season 5 (yes I think we will get one). I gotta say again that scene with Peter and Etta was perfect. 9/10 licorice!!
Like:
6
I enjoyed it, don’t get me wrong, but it was a little slow and not much actually happened.
Like:
3
10/10 for me.
Just curious, what did you give it ?
Like:
3
8
Like:
2
I thought that as well when I first watched it. I watched it again the next day without commercials and it seemed so much better. I dont know why I changed my opinion on it.
Like:
1
I have to agree with you on this one. It was an interesting little trip, but it was more like a Fringe spin-off than an actual episode of the show. Also, there was very little explanation about how the hell the Observers went from passively observing to Nazi-esque enforcers.
I also felt it was a bit slow – they could have included a lot more information/explanation if they would have amped it up a bit.
And I know I’m probably gonna get flamed for this…but the reveal and interaction between Peter and Etta just felt really forced to me. I mean, we all knew it was coming, but it didn’t feel authentic to me at all…
Like:
2
I agree with you, I hope they stop the hugs invasion from now on, because that’s when I realize they’ve done every interaction between the leads awkward for me. It’s like I feel all the wrong things about it. I don’t understand how they expect me to invest in the sentiment that Peter and Olivia are pure love, when they don’t even have the right conversations. and that this girl is the product of their so called love. Everything about Etta felt real until that last scene with Peter, when it hit me. Same with the hug between Walter and Peter and Olivia and Peter when they “found each other”. That was a rip off for me. Not feeling it.
Like:
1
Wow, couldn’t disagree more with you or Shidey.
Like:
3
Yeah willig, I know it sucks!…but I’m being honest. Hopefully they’ll restore in time my perception of our big team’s mission and relationship.
Like:
0
The girl in the drawing is Peter’s and Olivia’s neighbor. She looks forward to babysitting their child if they have one. That’s why she drew the picture.
Like:
2
If you’re refering to “The Day We Died” (are you?), you should watch it again. Amanda (the girl in P & O’s neighbourhood) drew it, yes, but Olivia even said to Peter: “That’s you and me and the little baby that we’re gonna have that she is planning on babysitting.” she=Amanda. This is definitely meant to be foreshadowing Etta’s existence – at least in my book. Just check out the child’s hair color! First I thought it’s red, but it’s orange… amber…
…And *maybe* it means that Etta also existed in the FIRST timeline, before the OT. Olivia had to die there, too, as September said – that’s why the girl is holding Peter’s hand in the drawing but not Olivia’s. He had to bring her up “alone”. It’s just a theory.
Like:
2
Oh, I see now. You replied to Diana’s comment. In that case… I agree with Diana. I wondered about that, too – that the drawing could mean Etta had/has a closer relationship with Peter. I noticed that even when she thought it’s her father AND her mother in that amber, she was watching Peter’s silhouette. I love that in Fringe – just like in real life – children behave like this. (We know, for instance, that this Peter had closer relationship with her mother – both of them, while Blue!Peter with Walter.) It’s more realistic this way.
Like:
0
I think she already knew Olivia wasn’t there because she had the bullet pendant with her. And when she was standing in front of the amber and then we see her face, she’s looking to the left where Astrid came out. It was intended for us to think there was Olivia. Peter was standing to her right. It’s not realistic to think she would be closer to her father now because she was 4 the last time she saw them both.
Like:
1
OK. I don’t think the bullet pendant had/has anything to do with Olivia, at least not in THAT manner. I was convinced too first that it caused her death – but after spending two days rewatching the ep and reading the comments and posts… no. I don’t think Olivia is dead in the future – September saved him?, idk, but the bullet is too obvious. (Man X & Walternate, for God’s sake, of course we would think that, and that’s exactly why the writers won’t do it IMO.) William Bell “did something to her”, I suppose AFTER DRJ almost caused her death, and the team needs Belly’s hand to gain access somewhere – maybe where Olivia is… And Etta’s reaction… Just watch her face before and after they freed Astrid – it seems to me that she was hoping it’s Olivia. Then she turns to Walter, and asks: “Where is…?” , but Simon cuts in. Peter’s behavior didn’t fit to the picture for me, either. <- speculation
Otherwise I think you're right about the "closer" thing. That was a long shot – ignore the whole thing, I was too deep into commenting/analizing. At least I should have put up a theory sign. I'll do it now: <- speculation
Anyway, we're nitpicking here. Thing is, we don't know anything about the background of this ep (probably we never will), the writers are waaaaay ahead of us, so the whole argument is a bit pointless. Maybe, hopefully in September…
Like:
1
One last thing: it’s just common psychology that girls tend to be more attached to their father, and boys to their mother – usually this even results in who we choose for our wife and for our husband. I didn’t want to suggest anything wrong with that, just that the show seemed to follow that pattern (I think that’s what I meant with the word ‘realistic’) – now I don’t know. The case is the same: I went too far & it’s nitpicking. So… sorry for that and forget it.
Like:
0
hey Nora, no worries…I just thought what you said was odd, so thank you for extending your POV.
Like:
1
Lincoln Needs To Borrow A Leaf From Simon On How To Fit In Seamlessly As A Fringe Agent. Heck Even Agent Cashner [SP] From Dream Logic Was Believable, Just Stating The Obvious.
Well-loved. Like:
15
In Coffee Chews, per serving, there are 480 calories, two grams of fat, and 30 grams of sugars.
Like:
4
Sh*t, that’s like a Starbucks Frappachino without the subsequent brain freeze….now I know I’ve been wasting half my paycheck all these years!
Like:
2
I wonder who is the coffee-holic, Pinkner or Wymann?
Like:
1
I just rewatched the episode and I have to say it was much better the second time around. I thought it was a little lackluster last night but, especially without the commercials it was great. I really enjoyed it much more, and that last scene with Etta and Peter was better the second time around.
Like:
5
Fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. Now, the question burning in my, and in many others´ brain (i´m sure) is: how will this connect with the ongoing story?
Like:
6
I was reading all the comments and I just had to get something off my chest.
Seasons 1-3 are still very relavent to season 4. As others have mentioned Peter and Olivia still remember everything as it happened in the original timeline. As for everyone and everything else, the way I understand it is that much (not all) of the important “Fringe” things that happened in seasons 1-3 still happened; the events were the same, but the circumstances may have been different. So even though they may not have happened the exact same way we saw them in season 1-3, they still happened, and will have an impact going forward. All the other things that have changed are really not that siginficant, for example Olivia’s sister still married and with two kids. In the grand scheme of it all…who cares? Thats just the writers having some fun.
Now, all that being said DRJ reapearing seamingly goes agasint my theory, but I did say much of the “Fringe” things not all. Plus, his death was as a direct result of Peter existing and since he technically didn’t, it is plausable that DRJ is still alive.
Finally there is the issue of the machine and Peter. This one is tricky. The way I see it, is that in order to save the universes Peter had to get in that machine. Once he did he no longer existed. However, he still had to get into the machine in order for that to happen. So what we have here is a paradox. He had to exist, so that he could not exist. So when the timline was re-written it included a different version of circumstances causing the machine to save the universes, but in order for that to have happened Peter had to get into the machine in the previous timline. If he did not, then there would be no new timeline.
Anyway, I don’t know if any of that is what the writers were going for, but I felt I had to get it out there.
As for the episode. It was good. I thought the actress playing Etta did a great job. She was able portray Anna Torv’s mannerisms and speech pattern very well. That was actually my first clue to her being Peter and Olivia’s Daughter.
Walter was awesome.
The episode seems out of context, but I just thought of something. When Peter no longer exists, the Observers are happy. If Peter does not exist, then neither does Etta. Looks like Etta could play a role in the future resistance. This whole time we thought that Peter and Olivia were maybe desendants of the observers, but maybe they aren’t. Maybe September knew what was gunna happen; that the observers were gunna take over. Without Peter they would succeed, but with Peter and therfore Etta they will fail. That is why the observers wanted Peter gone, so that they could take over. When Peter reamerged, that is why September told him he now has the chance to make things right; so that they could win the war.
As for Olivia having to die…I got nothing…lol
Well-loved. Like:
16
tisis the first time im giving an episode a 10/10 it was amazing
Like:
3
Walter has that Walternate look on his face.
The other look is the stink eye with the wrinkled frown.
Like:
5
Based on this episode :
1. Etta hasn’t seen her parents since she was 4.
2. Peter has been stuck at amber for over 20 years.
So it means that Etta is 24 years old in 2036. So her mother must be pregnant with her right now! So if we have a season 5 it means that we have to deal with a pregnant Olivia? I don’t think its a good Idea for a show like Fringe to have a pregnant kickass lead actress for like what a whole season? Maybe we have a time jump at the start of season 5.
Like:
2
I´m gonna speculate wildly, very very wildly: what if Olivia, for whatever reason, undergoes the same pregnant-acceleration process that Bolivia went through in Bloodline? So she can get pregnant AND still give birth in what remains of 2012!
Like:
0
Unless she is born December 25th, 2012.
Could the Three Wise Men be far behind ?
Like:
2
I do think they’ll do a time jump. Let’s say they save the world. Then at the end we find out Olivia’s pregnant. The next 2-3 yrs nothing that significant happens.
So at the start of S5 we jump to 2015 then they get ambered at 2016. Ella is 4 by then. Something happened to Olivia, died or maybe Bell did something to her to hide her away somewhere that’s why Walter got his hand to gain access to where Liv is. That is the first ep.
Or maybe S5 will start immediately after Letter’s of Transit and will just show some flashbacks to what happened in the years 2012-2036.
Then the remaining eps will take place at 2036. With them trying to find where Olivia and building the device that would eventually kill the Observers. The FRINGE team are bad-assess. Saving the world multiple times across universes and timelines!
Like:
4
I mean Etta! Just realized I put Ella
Like:
1
I think making episodes that take place in 2036 is very expensive so I don’t think Fringe with its lowered budget can afford that. Maybe a season with a story around the present and some flash-forwards to 2036 is more probable.
Like:
2
Oh my Gawd!!!, Fringe is killing me with the pregnant issue. Please!! no more babies anywhere! I implore…It would definitively lost what’s left of the current viewership.
MORE KICK ASS
NO MORE HUGS FROM ANYONE PLEASE!
I’ve just watched it again, and to my surprise, I loved Walter with his full brain, because that’s who he really is, and meant to be. If he’s gonna be more endearing, he should do it without tricks. I mean with a full conscious because that’s more worthy than just removing the parts you don’t like without effort. Besides he KICKED ASS as a full scientist!
And I’m thinking that Broyles has changed, so he must be a SS with feelings?, but controlled by observers. I don’t know, but something is wrong with Broyles being in the Loyalty part instead of the resistance, even more after loosing Olivia, he would’ve continue the same goal.
I looooooved Nina. She’s one of the characters that really never disappoints, of course maybe that’s because she doesn’t have that much of a chance to miss, like the other ones who are involved in every plot good or bad.
It was a great episode that they seemed to have worked A LOT on it, and that’s bugging me, because it really didn’t moved the story forward, but was more like a flashback jet again for Walter. I still prefer “Peter”.
Like:
1
Sorry if somebody already has talk about that, but:
At the end of the episode when Peter said ” I promess” to Etta, you can see in the back sitting on the left Walter and Astrid, and on the right it seems that there is another person, with long blond hair, with a hat, I think it’s Olivia (it seems that she is resting). Look closely. So?
Like:
1
I am sure it’s not olivia, just a random person
Like:
2
I thought it was a homeless MAN! :L
Like:
2
yeah, I’m also not sure if it’s even a woman!
Like:
2
Well here is my theory of how the events have played out. September distracted walternate from saving Peter so Walter could crossover to get the Peter from the other side. He did this because he wanted to prevent the observers taking over in 2036. To do this he needed to get both Walters and Olivia’s to work together to defeat the observers. His first attempt to do this resulted in seasons 1 through 3, but then the BBM destroyed one world. He gave Walter the plans to build the BBM to bridge the universes. His next attempt was the Peter jumped forward to the future to see the destruction so Peter would return and bridge both universes. The observers weren’t happy with this decision so they made him eliminate Peter. at this point the observers figured out that Septembers so called disruptions in the timeline were meant to change the 2036 future and they shot him and banished him. Unfortunately in all timelines Olivia dies but She was able to pass her abilities to Etta (similar to the worms in season 1). You can throw in DRJ ZFT and the pattern as always to manipulate the fringe team to search for the right answers in preparation for the fight vs the observer nation.
Like:
5
I really like your theory, that everything September has done was to prevent the 2036 future. I really hope your theory is right!
Like:
0
Walter is really intense and much scarier with all of his brain intact.
Like:
3
Yeah, very much more an Original Timeline Walternate flavor…perhaps even more heartless…
Like:
2
I certainly haven’t expected this stand-alone venture into one of the possible futures. But what a great foray it was… And it left me hoping that we will get back to it eventually, to witness The War Against Observers over the course of an entire season. Be it season 5, 6 or 7 (what, one may dream).
It was truly one of the most amazing – if not the most amazing – episodes of Fringe that I’ve seen to date. Henry Ian Cusick did a tremendous job as our old pal “Desmond” (or well… Simon), and Georgina Haig managed to win me over almost from the get go (I could hear myself thinking: “please, let her be their daughter”).
It was also a treat to see older versions of Broyles and Nina, not to mention observing the transition from “a silly Walter being even more loco than his usual self” to “a stern Walter who has regained the missing part of his brain “. Plus the William Bell revelation…
Despite all the love I have for both Olivias (especially the redhead), this episode has shown me the unimaginable: that I could let them go (or at least one of them). Etta was a worthy replacement.
I’m not surprised that there are nay-sayers amidst the fans; there always are. I can sympathize with the arguments that this particular episode may have disrupted the flow of the season 4 (which was developing nicely on its own), that it was a weird decision to air it here and now. Personally I think that it should’ve been the last or the first episode of a season.
But for all the problems you may have with such a decision having been made by the creators, remember this: maybe they didn’t intend this particular chronology at first, maybe they just weren’t left with much of a choice. It can’t be easy planning things when your fate is still in the air, and when you don’t know whether you’re going to be able to continue telling your story.
So even if it didn’t make that much sense to see this particular plot at the point in the series that we are currently at, I’m still extremely glad that we did. And I hope that people acknowledge it for what it was – a proof of how much potential there is still left in Fringe, and all the possible directions this story could take. If these are the last moments of the show, then the writers made the only correct decision by showing us “Letters of Transit”.
In the meantime, I’ll continue hoping that someone at Fox comes to their senses, and decides to support something of such superb artistic value – as unlikely as it is in this world of money.
Like:
6
I think the reason wh they showed us this episode now is that they can say to FOX: look, we just showed a preview episode for season 5, if you cancel fringe now, the fans will be even more furious!!
Like:
4
“why”
Like:
0
I certainly would be furious.
Like:
0
Please let’s remember Walter didn’t specifically say Belly killed Liv, for all we know they could still have to go get her somehow in that timeline/future/thingy we saw last friday.
Like:
4
Something most have gone wrong with Fringe if so many now want Etta to continue instead of Dunham :S
Well I felt almost the same way when they introduced Lincoln in this time line, I thought it would be a fresh clean start for all Peter’s flaws and even considered him a good replacement.
Like:
2
Completely random thought here: when Simon realized Broyles and his team had activated his tracker, he looked down at his left hand. Could the “tracker” in question be one of those glass discs that cropped up in Season One, that we never learned the purpose of?
Like:
1
I thought of something similar to Alt!Broyles’s tracker. He had one in “Entrada” – that’s how they found them when he helped Olivia. It was implanted into his wrist, I believe.
Like:
1
Ah, that makes sense. Another tie-in to season one.
Like:
0
So, this is my post from episode 4.03, and guess what?…nothing has changed since then FTW!…I don’t know if that’s good or bad, after 16 episodes, but the thing is, Fringe always made me have new hypothesis every 4 or 5 mythology charged episodes, but this season….no progress. Hopefully the cortexiphan kids and Jones do something to change that.
Red Balloon October 9, 2011 at 4:09 am
Very interesting thoughts from all of you, of course specially Dylan and mlj102, because you got me thinking (forgive my writing because it’s hard for me to think in English):
I believe the Observers arrived after the end of days of the first loop, when events occurred for the first time.
Then, back in the days from 2.16 “Peter”; Walter and William’s favorite TV show was watching the alternate world (screen created by Walter), because they tripped a lot with LSD (LOL!). This was before Walter even knew blue Peter was ill (they were stealing technology from over there). Later he used it to see if Walternate was any closer to finding the cure, but September interrupted and that was it… all of the aftermath happened for a second time right? (Second loop)
On the third loop, we don’t know how things would have played, but the Observers were on alert, since September tried to correct his error by saving red Peter and Walter from drowning; because according to him “the boy was important, he could not die or even return to the other side”. But as he mentioned in 3.10 “The Firefly”: even they don’t know what will come to pass (when they mess up with the time line, I must add). We never knew what his plan was to correct his error… but I’m thinking that when Peter did returned to the other side, September’s plan was screwed.
We also know that Bell designed the BBM at some point in the future before 2026?, when both worlds were dying. I think maybe he and Walter were the only ones aware of the looping they would experience if they went on with this plan, and Walter decided to improve the chances a little bit by asking Bell to remove parts of his brain, and try again hopping that there was only one more loop, but I guess they didn’t know for sure what would happened to Peter after he entered the BBM.
And now we are on a forth loop, is this right?…After Peter returned to live all over again, by building a bridge (of HOPE).
September’s statement in the 3.22 TDWD “He served his purpose”, maybe was more September’s purpose than Peter’s: thinking that the worlds were on track again to fulfill their destiny?. Maybe the original curse of events the Observers are referring to is that both worlds were meant to die, and these are the Observers intentions: to let things go as they witnessed it the first time.
So in this forth loop, September’s first mistake (interrupting Walternate) did happen, and apparently he cannot/wouldn’t do anything to prevent that, as it is maybe another paradox like the one Walter explained to Peter in 3.22 TDWD:
“Peter, you could stop the destruction before it occurs… If that’s the case, just don’t send the machine back, and we’ll never discover it and I’ll never destroy the other universe… No, it doesn’t work that way, I have already done it, and therefore I have no choice but to do it again… Walter, that doesn’t make any sense… It does, it’s a paradox, I can’t change what happened, because it’s already happened, but you can make a different choice within what happened”
Or as if this was the first time the Observers intervened with humans, with unimaginable repercussions, as if with September’s intervention, humans were able to save their worlds or destroyed theirs (Observers worlds)
In 4.01 NHNT December tells September that there’s a problem, and September is like WTF… “It is impossible, the time-line has been re-written, he was erased and yet traces of him continue to bleed through”… December continues: “It is as it has always been, our responsibility to ensure the events play out as they were intended, BEFORE YOUR INTERVENTION”
I think September has tried everything to correct the time-line:
First, by saving red Peter, because if he had died then, when Walter’s brain was intact, maybe he and Bell would have successfully prevented both worlds from dying (The Pattern, wormholes, etc), or even erase the Observers from existence
Second, by seeking events so that red Peter entered the BBM (The Firefly, Bloodline) resulting in a time-line re-written (by whom we don’t know), but Peter died in the frozen lake, and they are now in the same mess that they were before, as they don’t recall WTH happened, only this time, Walter’s brain is damaged and he cannot fix both worlds or fix the Observer intervention.
For all we know, maybe red Peter wouldn’t have survived even if Walternate wasn’t interrupted; we don’t know if technology would have reached a point that eventually destroyed both worlds; or if human relentless condition to achieve more knowledge and more power over their destiny, has had its consequences and resulted in the destruction or salvation of their species.
Somehow, September now thinks that they deserve a second chance to turn things around. He’s become a fan (sort of speak) of humans, as he can see they are desperately holding onto HOPE.
If that’s the case, welcome September!
Like:
2
lol I remember you saying that too
Like:
2
yeah!…I’m so bored with nothing moving to the right places. It’s chaos man!!!
Like:
0
I must say, these are my first thoughts after seeing 4×19:
OH MY GOD, WOW!!!! That said: D, I seemed to read in an article related to this episode having a 5th. season (and also complete – 22 episodes) would have a more extensive and intensive development of this futuristic episode. Therefore, I think to have the 5th. Certainly see the before and after encapsulation in amber of our favorite Fringe team. On the one hand, we have the events that led to the decision of Walter and the other “hiding in Amber” and on the other, we shall see, the outcome of the battle between observers and Humans, led by Bishop and co.
So, I wonder among many other things: Will this 4th. season we will be closing two parallel universes in order to make way for a new stage of Fringe (hopefully due for renewal) of a back and forth between the present (2012 -2016) and future (2036) ? Could that be why we did not see or hear anything about Lee or any of the alternate universe in episode 4×19? If so, Seth Gabel as would regular series and instead would have to Georgina Haig as the daughter of P / O. .. Perhaps these last 2 episodes to see this on the 4th. refer to this season, ending the story of 2 worlds and now stay focused on our time-traveling but by chapter, as in the 3rd. did the universe alternating between red one and blue one. I just speculate, but perhaps Lee decides to stay with the Red (aka Fauxlivia) in her universe and they (the universes)eventually split up, because Jones or someone or something else …
Concerning this “new stage” I have too many questions: What happened to Olivia? What did Bell? Is Bell the mystery man X? If he was not dead, where it was before the amber and why Peter took Amber to be locked into having a 4 year old daughter? Now that our Walter has his whole brain, will be our Walter to become a total Walternate? Perhaps, the new season brings us back to Olivia with her family, after the start of the season as with Peter in the 4th., When he returned in the 4×04 …
We see now, thanks to this episode 4×19, the worst were neither villains nor DRJ Walternate but observers from the beginning, they only had plans of colonization … and poor in September, apparently did not do well trying to help Bishop guys, what happened to him? I suspect we have not seen the last of him yet, and might discover at last, in the 5th., What is the relationship with the observer of the 1st mini. season.
Finally, I add 2 more thoughts: 1st. that this episode gave me the sensation of seeing the pilot of a new series and maybe even up to a movie, lol: P and 2nd., that this episode as the future plot of the series, is based entirely on WINTER TALE book, that little Olivia was reading in episode 3×15 (Subject 13) where the protagonist Peter Lake awoke after a long time and discovered that his world was practically in the apocalypse, in addition to his beloved had died … Other details of the book that are also consistent with what has happened or is about to happen in our favorite series. Recall that Akiva Goldsman is a consultant for the series and who also is responsible for directing the film based on the same book, so do not be surprised that certain ideas have contributed to line up the history of our beloved characters on that line.
Finally, I’m sure regardless of case, our favorite Fringe team is wonderful and will remain the backbone of our beloved series, so if you delete Peter return, and if killed Olivia, because I believe and this is Fringe, which also returned to us …
10/10 licorice for this episode: D: D: D
Like:
3
I know, this is urealated, but i bett, Peter will get at least 5% of the votes in Fringie of the week!
Like:
3
Did anyone else notice, right after Astrid was extracted from the amber — that Etta started to say, “Walter, where is …” before Simon interrupted about the broken wand? I think she was hoping that the younger woman was going to be Olivia, and was about to ask where is Olivia. Supports the theory that Olivia is hidden or stuck somewhere else advanced by others above … and that Belly had something to do with her absence …
How great is this show?
Like:
2
@Surun Tunne
I hope you find this – there was absolutely no ‘reply’ button anywhere.
- The last time we see the device Bolivia stole is in ‘Immortality’, when Walternate is observing it before Brandonate goes into detail about what happened with their trials using cortexiphan. It is never again seen or discussed, and the only time you see the blood is at the beginning of ’6.02AM EST’ and they skip over the part where they physically use it to activate the machine. I am sorry, but there is absolutely no evidence to support what you are saying.
- That machine-paradox theory still doesn’t work, unfortunately. The machine was sent back from the blue future and into the blue past, there is no explanation for how it could be sent back from the blue future and into the blue and red past. The red universe is completely separated from this paradox, and there remains no explanation regarding the nature of their machine.
- There is existence and non-existence, there is no in between. For Peter to have been “bleeding through”, as September put it, he would have had to have been somewhere else.
- The red Peter that drowned, drowned. His body is still buried where he was buried. However, this adult Peter has now entered the picture, but that doesn’t change the fact that red Peter’s body still exists, buried. Therefore, we still have three Peters where we should only have two.
Like:
0
Oh, and Reciprocity:
“I think this whole “he got weaponized” thing wasn’t really a fact, just a theory by walter…”
We can’t view it as that, unfortunately. It was at the end of the episode and was in place as the “answer” to the events of that episode. Peter was significantly different; his entire mood was different. He agreed with Walter about what he had said, and that’s why the shot of Peter looking in the mirror mixed in with the Machine in the base simply humming existed and ended the episode.
In ‘Reciprocity’, that dialogue isn’t meant to be viewed as just an empty theory – whether or not correct, the machine had definitely done something to Peter. However, immediately after that episode the thing is completely dropped – no more odd behaviour by Peter, no more concern by Walter, and until ‘Os’ there was no further continuance regarding the shape-shifter disks, and even then it was quickly brushed under the carpet the moment Bell possessed Olivia.
Like:
1