FRINGE: 4.17 Everything In Its Right Place

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Lincoln travels to the other side to join forces with Bolivia and his own alternate, as they search for a vigilante with a surprising connection to the shapeshifters.

Fringe 4.17 "Everything In Its Right Place" Rating

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  1. DeepRunner says

    Lincoln re: the side effects of the Cortexiphan dosing…

    Get over it, dude. Olivia is gone. Fauxlivia is the next best thing.

    Like: Thumb up 3

    • Drenami says

      But WHY doesn’t she remember him??? I am sooooo frustrated with this concept that I think I feel like Darth Kate ;)

      Like: Thumb up 4

      • Darth Kate says

        she doesn’t remember him because of needlessly convoluted plot things that aren’t really necessary. hope that helps.

        Like: Thumb up 7

        • Drenami says

          I was afraid of that :-/ *opens invisible, soundproof door..enters and closes door…..screams at top of lungs…comes back out not feeling much better* ;)

          Like: Thumb up 0

      • Roneo says

        I don’t know if there is a point to have like reference for Olivia remembering. I mean, she should forget the “life without Peter” till the moment he disappears (the second set of memories). But from that point on, she only has one set of memories. Why is she forgetting so many things? What she doesn’t remember of what happened between the end of 3.22 and 4.13?
        Nothing? There’s a void in her memories from those months?
        I’m not sure, but perhaps that point could be 4.05 Novation. Peter’s return. If I’m not wrong, the Lincoln memories she doesn’t conserve took place before that.
        In that case we have to assume that this was more or less a point coincident with the “Peter entering in the machine” one. And the visions and dreams Walter and Olivia had been having before that are only the traces of Peter trying to surface, in that vague time bubble.

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        • JM says

          The way i understand it is as follows (obviously i may be wrong and this is purely my opinion based on what i have understood from the episodes)

          -Olivia in her “current state of mind” (if you like) remembers everything from the point when she started to become the old olivia, so the end of 4.12 “welcome to westfield”. The dreaded events of the fanfiction episode wallflower (4.07) took place well before. So she is completely blank from 4.01-4.12 therefore she dosent remember her conversations with lincoln and deep longing stares they shared, she also dosent remember that she owes him 10 dollars for the soup and that is infact why he is so distant with her but i digress.

          So because she remembers from 4.12 onwards she has actually worked with lincoln for a little bit and so therefore recognises him and so forth, and even have some kind of friendship that we see in 4.15 (the hand touching googly eyes thing again, lincoln wondering where the **** his money is…)

          I think it is sort of explained or at least touched upon in olivias meeting with her therapist at the beginning of 4.16. As for the “void” between season 3 and 4. I dont know. She remembers peter getting into the machine we know that from 4.13: a better human being. As far as im aware they havent explained anymore.

          I hoped that helped lol

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          • Roneo says

            “So she is completely blank from 4.01-4.12″

            So that seems (even if it’s not 4.12 and it’s 4.05 or whatever). But I still don’t get why. I guess it’s one more of the “poetic licences” which they are becoming too fond of.

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  2. megan says

    What’s up Tryrone! Ha…I love Altivia:)
    And I didn’t picture Lincoln with a middle name like Tyrone lol

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  3. Sofia says

    If it wasn’t for Altlivia and Gene, there would be nothing for me in this episode. It’s difficult to get through the Lincoln’s scenes

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    • Robert Ariadne says

      When Canaan went to shape-shift again, I didn’t know what that thing was coming out of his mouth. It took a second to realize it’s that spiked thing they use to transform. Makes sense that the new shape-shifters would be born with those.

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  4. Sofia says

    After all it was an awesome episode, sometimes I forget that Anna Torv plays both Olivias, she’s so good!

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    • Rae says

      Darth Kate, I gotta agree with you!! Alt Live OWNED that episode and she just made me love her more and more! Gawd, I didn’t think I could love her more, but as is usually the case, she proved me wrong!!

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      • Roneo says

        I must admit that I still had unresolved issues with the old AltLiv and I didn’t quite fall into the charm of this one. Which obviously she has (she is Olivia Dunham, and she is Anna Torv, right?), but I don’t know, I didn’t fully see her soul, what was behind the sway and the cocky retorts. But I can say now that I have already seen it. So for me this was the chapter of reconciliation. At your feet, Red.

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  5. megan says

    That was too convenient. Get ride of Alt-Lincoln ( my favorite one) to make room for Blue-Lincoln :(

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  6. Rae says

    Gawd! I called that episode! Gotta admit though, I LOVED it. I’m sure if I hadn’t just downed a bit of Manschewitz, I mighta felt differently, but that fact that I’m two sheets to the wind made me appreciate that episode for what it was.

    I KNEW they’d kill off Alt-linc, and our Linc would take his place. If it wasn’t for Alt-Liv, I wouldn’t have liked this episode nearly as much. She was SO BADASS that I could hardly contain her swag on my television screen. I always loved her, but after this eppy, I love her even more. Of course, now there is the ‘will-they-won’t-they’ of our Linc and her, but I’m kinda hoping the writers would spare us of this, and just let Fauxlivia grieve for *her* Lincoln for a bit.

    In other news, the Jones mythalogy and the fact that they’ve capture Meana is AWESOME!! I LOVED that aspect the best. It made the eppy, IMO.

    Our threesome was significantly abscent, obviously, in this episode, and though I missed them, terribly, our Alt-Liv made up for it. Especially that ending scene where she sniper-assed the shape-shifter. I was like ‘wahoo! you go gurl!’.

    Anyway, all in all, I give this eppy an eight out of ten. I even felt myself feeling for NerdLinc for some reason. I guess, it’s because I realized that he finally realized that *he* is the only one who can instill confidence in himself. I’m going to assume he’s going to stake his place in the Alt-world, and somehow find the family he always wanted, the center of the circle, so to speak, in terms of that objective correlative necklace of the episode.

    All this being said, I’m eight-million times more excited for next weeks episode! we have the alt world and our world and Broyles and the machine. Guh, all that much Fingie-ness is sure to kill me!

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    • hsa says

      I agree with everything you said. Very nice episode. They did not kill the wrong Lincoln. Blue Lincoln will change into the man Altliv wants him to be (i.e., Blue Lincoln) and Red Lincoln told him that he decided to become the man he wanted to be in answer to Blue Lincoln’s questin as to why they were so different since their life histories were so similar. What a convenient way for the writers to get rid of someone most fans do not like and who was a fifth wheel!!

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      • corazondeazul says

        Exactly! It was way TOO convenient! I normally find something to like about every episode of Fringe, but in this case, Anna Torv was the only thing that saved it for me. (Seth Gabel also did a decent job, but he was so overshadowed by Altlivia that it was difficult to even notice. Anyway, there are so many things I didn’t buy about this episode, but I’ll start with:

        1) Why the HELL wasn’t Alt-Lincoln wearing a bulletproof vest? C’mon, they do that on our side, and Over There is supposed to be much more technologically advanced, right? I get that Over There is supposed to be a compilation of chill yet competent badasses, but now that I think of it, it makes NO SENSE for them not to protect themselves when going on a raid.
        2) Speaking of the technology, you’re telling me that they can fix Altlinc being BURNED ALIVE but they can’t save him from a simple bullet wound in the chest? This tested my suspicion of disbelief, especially taking into consideration the fact that we can sometimes even save people who are shot in the head with modern technology (ex. Gabrielle Giffords).
        3) I understand that they’re trying to give Blue Lincoln a chance not to be useless, but frankly, all of the exposition regarding him this season does seem like a plot contrivance to me. I mean, think about it: we get all this supposed character/relationship development between him and our Olivia, and she doesn’t even remember it now! What the hell is the point of that? I understand and appreciate the parallel between Lincoln’s and Peter’s desire for a home, but we needed a second Peter on this show. One, as I’m sure even Darth Kate would agree, is more than enough.

        That being said, Altlivia stole my heart yet again in this episode. I loved her furious, stony look when she heard about Altlincoln’s death, and the hand to her mouth when she backed away combined with the break in her voice when she spoke to Blue Lincoln were just genius. I wasn’t always a huge fan of Anna Torv (I know, I know), but in my opinion she has truly become an amazing actress over the course of this series. Now I just hope they don’t throw Blue Lincoln and Altlivia together immediately, because that would just be so deeply in bad taste.

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    • zakray says

      NEXT WEEK: When the guy in the office meeting dies with injures consistent with an airplane crash my first thought was ‘Is everything in the blue-verse catching up to the original timeline? i.e. he was suppose to die in the first season’s plane crash’

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9

      • fedorafadares says

        That is a great prediction! If that’s true, Peter’s presence is effecting everyone — not just Olivia.

        Could guilt over his effect on others lead Peter back into the machine?!

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9

      • hui says

        What really concerns me is the machine….I’ve mentioned somewhere that in Worlds Apart (ep20), the bridge will be destroyed. And in the promo, the scene of the machine with DRJ just makes me more worried about that.

        DRJ is not trying to combine the 2 worlds. He wants to reverse the process and destroy the machine.

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  7. DeepRunner says

    Ok, this eppy was good, though not as good as expected:

    * Good effort trying to see what made the Lincolns so different from each other

    * Our Lincoln lecturing the shapeshifter on making a decision to be important. Why didn’t they just have him scream it at a mirror?

    * Alt Olivia….I would never be on the wrong end of her target practice. ;)

    * Bad, Bad Nina on ice. Aqualine-looking skin, with short hair. Hope she likes orange fashion and jailhouse jewelry. Wonder how long until she gives Alt Broyles up?

    * Goodbye Alt Lincoln. You were the cool one. The need to sew up Our Lincoln’s love interests must have been more important than preserving the Lincoln that everyone wanted to stay. REALLY? I have no ill will toward Our Lincoln, just think both Lincolns could have coexisted.

    * Alt Olivia has lost her partner, just as our Olive lost her original partner.

    * So how did Grazing Day go for the Big Three?

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    • says

      “* Our Lincoln lecturing the shapeshifter on making a decision to be important. Why didn’t they just have him scream it at a mirror?”

      Yes! Too funny. When ‘Agent’ Lincoln jacked that shapeshifter against the fence, I do believe it was the first time I rolled my eyes and doubled over laughing at the same time. At that moment he reminded me of people that co-opt a line from some pop culture zeitgeist (tv show, character, movie, blah blah), and lift it as their own original “ism”. Really, Lincoln? Really!

      I’m cool with him staying Over There. Leave him be. At least he is filling a void that or need somewhere. I don’t care if he and Altliv shack it up ( I chose to believe he is better off venturing outside of work romances). So long as we don’t have to see it or hear about it in passing reference, I’m good.

      R.I.P. Captain Lincoln Tyrone Lee

      You had your puppy dog moments in Season Three. Your over confident swag did not extend into your personal life that year. At least you and your Alternate share the same taste in women. Here’s to Agent Lee giving it a go*. (* No! Don’t give it a go Lincoln. Just stay Over There and keep your head down. It’ll be like you never existed Over Here.)

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      • PB says

        Four word: show. . . me. . . the . . . body. . . alt-linc lives.

        Lifted from Twitter: Altverse has advanced healing tech + no actual body + had to pull something big to smoke out the mole = AltLinc ain’t dead.

        Complements of @LetItPlayOut

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        • lizw65 says

          Yeah, remember…if someone dies on TV and there’s no body, there’s a good chance they didn’t really die! Maybe he figured out that Broyles is the mole and decided to fake his own death to go undercover?

          Like: Thumb up 3

        • says

          Oh man, I was just watching an old Episode of ‘Psych’ 2 days ago, and that line was repeated throughout, ” No body? No Crime.”

          I like this idea in the sense that it would be a convenient way to explain an earlier commenters point regarding the absence of a Kevlar vest on Alt-Lincoln. So a plausible idea for sure (though I doubt it being the direction ‘The Linc’s” arcs are going).

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      • Niomi Lianne says

        hshould be the one to comfort altliv! what happened to th alt trio!? linconate was pretty close to alterchalie so shouldnt he be there too?!!!

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          • Robert Ariadne says

            The show he was on (Prime Suspect) was cancelled, so we may yet see Charlie again. Though I believe it’s more likely that in this timeline, Charlie was already killed off.

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  8. willg says

    Great episode. I did not like alt lincoln getting blasted, but I am still more interested in the ongoing Jones plot to worry about which lincoln survives or whatever. Jones will not be happy that Meana got caught. Next week looks awesome. I also thought it was funny how at the end Lincoln brought the shape shifter to Walter and Peter and they did not even think twice to ask why he was staying. lol.

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  9. megan says

    I was yelling “You go girl” when Altlivia was wielding that gun…she so badass!

    Like someone else commented, sometimes it’s hard to remember that Anna Torv is playing both characters.

    This was a good episode overall but like I said earlier…I’m not please with what happened to Alt-Lincoln :(

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    • FinChase says

      That was some shot! That shapeshifter never had a chance against her.

      Anna Torv is awesome, no matter what version or what timeline she’s playing.

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  10. zakray says

    I’m glad we got a lot of AltBroyles and some Meana. Anna Torv was/is brilliant! At first I hated the alt-universe episodes (no Walter or Peter) now I look forward to them. I still wish to see Charlie he must have the longest honeymoon on record that bug girl must be something else!
    Must re-watch I didn’t catch the observer anyone else catch sight of him?

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    • Rae says

      I agree, Zakray. I wasn’t so keen, at first, on the alt-verse episodes, but Alt Liv TOTALLY makes them worth it!

      I really, really enjoyed this episode. Even the aspects with our Lincoln, surprisingly. When he’s not interacting with characters, over here, he is honestly tolerable, and I can even force myself to empathize with him.

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      • mrflamethunder says

        “Even the aspects with our Lincoln, surprisingly. When he’s not interacting with characters, over here, he is honestly tolerable, and I can even force myself to empathize with him.”

        Which is why I guess red-verse is his right place.
        But is the pay-off (AltLinc got killed) worth it?!
        I’m not sure what to think right now.

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    • says

      You beat me to the “Where’s Charlie?” punch. Everything is NOT in it’s right place till Charlie Francis makes his triumphant return.

      There were many enjoyable elements, the best, seeing both ‘Meana’ (tee hee) and Broylesnate for more than 30 seconds. Does SAG give awards in a category like “Best Intense, Poker Face Glare in an Ensemble Drama”? The look Broylesnate gave Lincoln when he suggested distributing the shifters face…Man! If looks could disintegrate! He was clenching his jaw so tight, you’d think he was trying to make Lincoln’s head explode.

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  11. Ben says

    The two redheads made this for me. Altlivia is still as cool as she was at the end of S3. And Meana! This is really the first time we’ve seen her that she wasn’t incognito as Our Nina. And she’s really good at being bad.

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  12. D says

    I love the fact that Alt-Liv keeps her big, badass gun in the boot of her car. Really enjoyed that episode, particularly because I’ve always had a soft spot for Nerd-Lincoln (and now he will really blossom with the parting pep talk from Captain Lee).

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  13. Rae says

    Yeah, I thought this too, but honestly, I really hope they don’t force these two together in such a short time span. It was bad enough when they tried to convince me that Lincoln and our Livia loved each other after five episodes, getting NerdLinc and Liv together in just five, would be overkill.

    Okay, yeah, I can understand why they would work together well in a pragmatic point-of-view, but please, don’t let forced circumstance bind them together romantically, we’ve had enough of that on the blue-side already this year. Look, all I’m saying is GIVE US TIME to analyze the situation before you pack it down our throats.

    Honestly, Petah and LIvvy are together, so can’t they just leave it at that? We already have one fated, amazing pairing, so why, now, do we have to have two? It will pale in comparison to the Bishop/Dunham twosome anyway. If they’re doing this on a friendship standpoint, then, yeah, okay, I’m cool with that. But for the love of Pete, give us a break on the romantic sector.

    Yeah, I’m a shipper. But even we can only stand so much…lol…

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    • DeepRunner says

      No, Rae, Petuh and Olivy-er are not enough. We MUST have Lincbot with Alt Olivia. More shipping. Even if it doesn’t work.

      Like: Thumb up 3

      • Rae says

        Honest to God, at this point, it’s a lil ridiculous, and a little contrived.

        I love romance when it’s believable, but really, there’s a line that needs to be drawn somewhere, even if it”s in the parallel universe sand.

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        • PB says

          We’ve been so blown out by contrived romantic entanglement we’ve been pushed into an alternate Universe! :D

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    • lizw65 says

      My sense is that it is more about balancing the universes than hooking up every available character; Peter is a child of the redverse who chose the blue, and Lincoln is a blueverse character who appears to be choosing the red, which creates a nice symmetry.

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      • fedorafadares says

        I like this idea, Liz, since it’s been said that Lincoln Lee sort of fills Peter’s role. At the time I heard that comment from Seth Gabel, I assumed it meant on the blue side, but maybe it meant overall.

        Nice!

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      • Roneo says

        I still don’t quite understand, in seeing the history as a whole, what is the role of OurLinc. Was he really necessary in this side? Was he really necessary over-there? I don’t know if something remains to be seen that will provide us with the answer, or simply will not be an answer. For some secret reason the producers / writers have wanted to have that character this season, and to give him such relevance. The pity is that I don’t know if the result has been the one intended.

        I just find an explanation, after watching the episode. Since in this timeline Olivia’s exchange was not as dramatic for AltLiv, Henry does not exist and she has never come to doubt and face Walternate (that was for me the start of her growth), a trigger was needed to create some AltLiv anguish, in a good sense: to create a conflict for the character development. And that I think has been the death of AltLinc. Not just the loss itself, but because it can be the spark for the end of Broyles (perhaps will be the Red herself that matches his destiny with the one from the previous timeline), which in this LT has to assume the role of villain that formerly occupied Walternate, as we have seen so far.

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      • Liz says

        This “balancing the universes” excuses doesn’t make sense to me. After all, Bell was first who “unbalanced” things, following by Jones, then Meana… and so on. There is no symmetry, it’s just more romantic notion for shipper :)
        Hey, I’m big romantic soul, but I love tragic ends, so my ideal end for this “balancing” worlds, is already written by one of best Fringe fanfiction writer: “This is how it Begins, and this is how it Ends” by Elialys. Look it up! This is my ideal end for this love epic saga. And this end would be epic. Just sayin’ …

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    • wikiaddicted723 says

      I agree. The cool thing about P/O is that they built their relationship from scratch. It took 3 seasons, and more than a little heartbreak for them to get together. Them rushing anything between Lincoln and Altliv would be damaging character-wise.

      I guess Lincoln found what he was looking for. Someone who needs him (even though it’s not necessarily HIM, just someone to be there as support).

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  14. willg says

    Did anyone notice in the beginning when we flashed to the alternate universe how it flashed blue, or was I mistaken. We also saw alot of blue light over there. What was up with that?

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  15. Amanda says

    I think we’re going to find that the reason the Lincolns’ lives diverged so much is because of the presence of AltLiv. Maybe she’ll help OurLinc find his place.

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    • willg says

      Great idea. I am wondering if well see Lincoln come out in a few episodes with contact lenses or something.

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    • Rae says

      I was thinking this same thing. I thought, honestly, that we were going to find out this episode that it’s because Alt-Linc loved Alt-Liv, that he became the man he was. Alas, we didn’t, but as you said, I’m sure eventually, this is probably going to be the case.

      Alt Linc-may you rest in peace. Oh behalf of the Fringedom faction, you will be greatly, greatly missed, and many, many fans would wish your doppelganger have died in your stead….

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    • Kelly says

      I think so too. I actually enjoyed OurLinc this episode, he seemed like he was much more “in his right place”. I also think the hate for OurLinc on here is a liiiiiittle too much tbh. :\ I think his character developed A LOT in the past couple of episodes.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9

      • scully8 says

        Kelly, I think the dislike for Lincoln is a result of him being forced upon us — wanting us to invest in him immediately. Also, the whole love triangle didn’t help the situation.

        Now, I agree with you that in this episode, I actually liked him. He was less burdened with the whole ‘I’m in love with Olivia’ situation. He was relaxed and funny which we were given glimpses of last season and even this season. It seems the writers have been setting up old Lincoln to go over to the other side all along. I do wonder why they picked our Lincoln to live instead of keeping AltLinc. Of course, if it’s true what’s been said in earlier posts that maybe AltLinc is still alive and just undercover.

        I thoroughly enjoyed the episode and may even rewatch it . . . I’m still not a Lincoln fan, but I think if there is a season 5, I could be . . . maybe.

        Like: Thumb up 4

      • PB says

        I agree they’ve stopped using Lincoln as nothing more than a wallflower placeholder introduced to fill the void left by Peter’s absence at the beginning of the season.

        After Peter’s return Lincoln seemed like little more than a prop and an unnecessary third corner for the Peter and Olivia love triangle.

        But since the last episode they’ve really started developing his character again, his sad-sack routine in response to Olivia’s situation makes a lot more sense now and they’re starting to flesh him out a bit. I love Blue Lincoln.

        As for Alt-Linc, the whole thing is a scandal, probably perpetrated by Jones and Broyles. Alt-Linc may have been kidnapped after being shot. Superior Alt-verse tech would have healed him no problem. This scene was deliberately suspect. Show me the body, that’s all I’m saying.

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  16. Maris says

    I have to confess, that I’m not a great fan of Alt- Liv, but she is starting to make me like her!!!
    At- Lincoln almost make me cry! Come on, he was great!! EWay they have to kill him!!! I really laki him, a lot, and know he is dead!!! They shot in the wrong Linconl!!
    But despite the Linconl death, I really like this episode!! A lot!!

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  17. Rae says

    All this being said, did anyone else scream “Hi, Wallie!” at the end when Walter appeared! Damn, did I miss him this episode. Too much Lincoln, so when Petah and the Elder Bishop finally came, I was like…”Oh, hi!! I missed you guys!!” lol….TOO MUCH AWESOMENESS just appeared on my T.V screen.

    And then I screamed at Lincoln, ‘You see that swag? That’s why you get second billing to the Bishop boys!” lmao….

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    • DeepRunner says

      Interesting that Peter, though, addressed him as “Agent Lee.” Much more formal and distant than he has been with Lincbot before.

      I did miss the Big Three, and our Astrid. It was a good touch for Alt Astrid to deliver the news to the Corrupt Colonel about Alt Lincoln.

      Like: Thumb up 7

    • Red Balloon says

      I didn’t liked that swag at all…it felt a little weird ..I dunno maybe it was the jacket

      Like: Thumb up 5

      • Rae says

        Any swag the Bishop’s have own Lincoln’s. FACT. ;) lmao.

        I don’t blame you. I miss the peacoat, too. But what can we do?….

        Like: Thumb up 4

  18. Jen says

    While Lincoln was trying to figure out where his path diverged from alt-Lincoln, I was trying to figure out how their fathers went from being judges in the original timeline to being proprietors of a hardware store in the new timeline.

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    • DeepRunner says

      Right on Jen, I remembered from Over There that Alt Lincoln’s dad was a judge. Quite a change from being on a judicial bench to being on a workbench.

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    • says

      Good to see we’re all wearing our Blueverse caps! Thing is, Lincoln is so not a factor to me, I’m not going to expend the brains cells needed to marinate on that. Any goodwill I had for Lincoln/Lincolnate flew out the window once Lincolnate went all “Lonely Boy” for Altlivia last season, only to have Lincoln spend the entirety (to date) of this season doing to same for Oliva.

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      • says

        Note: All snarky cynicism is to be directed toward my disdain for the handling of the Lincoln/Lincolnate story arcs. Not Jen :-)

        I just re-read it and thought, “Ooo that could be interpreted the wrong way”.

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    • Darth Kate says

      Pinkner and Wyman: “LOL what’s continuity?”

      Of course, this is a new timeline, so things could be different.

      Like: Thumb up 0

      • DeepRunner says

        But that sort of implies that the lack of Peter’s presence had more far-reaching effects than just on the show characters. Quite the statement, and one that I am not willing to buy.

        Like: Thumb up 1

      • Jen says

        I understand that this is a new timeline but for the most part people’s life paths didn’t really change that much from OT to NT. Sure some of the details changed, stepdad lived/stepdad died or boarding school/Nina’s your foster mom, but before this episode everyone’s professions had stayed the same. Edward Markham still sells used books, our Fringe Divison agents are all still agents, Walter is a scientist, DRJ is still a madman, etc. But for some reason Lincoln’s dad went from being a guy who went to school for atleast 7 years to obtain a J.D. and would have had to have been fairly ambitious to become a judge who was known to the Secretary of Defense to being the owner of a hardware store. But RoSull is probably right and I should also save my heavy thinking for someone or something more important than Lincoln. Regardless, it’s just one of those things that gets my gears turning and I’ve been trying to figure out what drastic event could have occurred that so greatly altered his life but not that of his son. And I’m with DeepRunner in that I don’t think that that drastic event was the deletion of Peter Bishop.

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        • Darth Kate says

          I guess its just like redlincoln said. Free will must play a part in the differences. At some point his father must have just decided that he was going to put the work in and become a judge.

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  19. scully8 says

    I writing this before reading any other comments. I just finished watching the episode, unfortuntately, the final scene in the locker room bet. Lincoln and Altliv cut off, so I missed that .

    However, as most know, I’m not a Lincoln fan, but, and I cannot believe I’m saying this, but I enjoyed the episode. The writing was a bit heavy-handed, but Lincoln works so much better on that side. Since I wasn’t a huge fan of altlinc, I’m not made at the ending, although it’s always sad to see someone depart this plain before there time.

    Also, seeing Meana was excellent — lovin’ the page-boy hair style. :) I think the remaining episodes, whether heavy Lincoln or not, are going to be awesome.

    Just my immediate reaction to the episode. I’m sure I’ll have other thoughts once it’s sunk in. With that said, this will not be an episode that I watch multiple times because I’m still not a Lincoln fan . . . :)

    Like: Thumb up 5

  20. fringefan says

    Dear Captain Lee fans! Stop crying! I have a theory! (based on sketchy evidence but whatever)
    (also I was a bit distracted during the episode, so feel free to correct me if anything’s wrong)
    So after Red!Lincoln got shot, I thought he looked fine right? He was talking fine and conscious. Plus, the Red Universe has superb medical care. Remember in season two when Red!Lincoln got set on fire by a cortexiphan kid?? He had burns on like 90% of his body and lived. It just doesn’t make sense that he died.
    Now let’s talk about that scene with Red!Astrid and Colonel Broyles. In my opinion, it looked like Red!Astrid was getting ready to present her super statistical evidence to Broyles about how he’s been replaced with a shapeshifter or whatever before they got interrupted. So MAYBE Red!Lincoln faked his death so he could go undercover and find out more about Broyles and Jones!
    (Yeah this has like a 5 % chance of being true…)

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 13

    • DeepRunner says

      Well, it would not be the first time a character’s death was faked in a J.J. Abrams TV show. But I am not sure that it is as likely in this case.

      Like: Thumb up 3

    • PB says

      Totally support this idea. You could see the shame in Broyles eyes, I don’t think he’s a shapeshifter, think he’s in collusion with Jones for some unknown reason though.

      Lincoln Lee ain’t dead. SHOW ME THE BODY.

      Like: Thumb up 6

      • RB says

        I agree. I want Altlinc not to be dead so much that I can’t believe it until I have substantial proof! Guess We’ll see at the funeral next week..

        I just don’t want them to pair Altliv and Ourlinc! If that happens, I’ll just expect them to find a girlfriend for Walter and Broyles and two hot guys for Nina and Astrid! -.-

        Like: Thumb up 2

    • Darth Kate says

      I will be really disappointed if they fake his death. Beloved characters have to die in an epic and we haven’t had a real affecting death in a while. There’s no tension if no one ever gets killed.

      Like: Thumb up 3

  21. says

    I can’t put my finger on which fictional character Lincoln reminded me of the most tonight. Casper the Friendly Ghost? Charlie Brown?

    New thought: If Lincoln is Charlie Brown…Peter/Snoopy, Walter/Woodstock, Olivia/Lucy… Yeah, Lincoln is much more interesting to me in the Peanuts universe.

    Like: Thumb up 2

  22. M says

    Na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na MANTIS!

    Best episode of the season. Gets a 10. I had high hopes for this episode, and it did me proud. Way to go, Seth! The twist with the shape-shifter betraying Nina was glorious. Gene’s FBI baseball cap had me on the floor. On another note, I wish the Astrid episode would have been more like this.

    Surprisingly, I called Alt-Lincoln dying about fifteen minutes into the episode. Didn’t think it would happen so fast, but I think they made the right choice. They’ve all been dodging gunfire for too long. Somebody had to go. RIP, Linc.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 17

    • M says

      I must also thank the writers for FINALLY addressing the corrosion of the multiverse. I know the bridge slowed down the process, but the revelation that it’s reversing it explains a lot about why everyone has been ignoring this issue.

      That said, the explanation doesn’t make much sense and feels too… easy, but I’ll have to hope they elaborate further before the end of the season.

      Like: Thumb up 6

      • lizw65 says

        They actually addressed this several episodes back, but it was practically a throwaway line. I’m not surprised a lot of people missed it.

        Like: Thumb up 1

      • Darth Kate says

        The explanation seemed kind of like a hand-wave to me… Like “Oh yeah! the universes were corroding, but now they’re not because the plot says so. Don’t worry about it, viewers.”

        Like: Thumb up 1

  23. FinChase says

    So, one bad thing about Red Lincoln (I can’t think of him as Lincolnate since we knew him first, so he’s the original to me) is that we now may never find out how he recognized Nick Lane. I assume he had a connection to the Over There Nick, and I wanted to know what it was, and maybe meet that version of Nick.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 13

    • Niomi Lianne says

      Ihavent thought of that. but I think the witters are goin to adress that. afterall, they are starting to bring back things that were thought be a dead end like the porcupine man. they wouldnt just throw that in there fornothing. There has to be some sort of connection to the plot

      Like: Thumb up 2

      • Jacko says

        During the Lincoln questioning shapeshifter scene I was like “OMG OMG OMG PLEASE BE NICK LANE!”

        Like: Thumb up 0

  24. Robert Ariadne says

    One quick word before I begin: I want to wish Seth Gabel, his family, and any other Jewish Fringie that may be reading this, a happy Passover.
    Now, to business. This episode did the impossible: It made me not hate this Lincoln anymore. However, the death of the other Lincoln was completely unnecessary.
    I have very greatly missed the other side this season (I imagine due to budget cutbacks), so it was great to see it again; especially with the two best characters from there. Mantis sounds like a terrible superhero, but then again, so does a “flying rat”. Another good thing was the bridge room reversing the environmental degradation. At least something good came out of Peterlessness.
    The shapeshifter plotline wasn’t as strong as I would’ve hoped. Something like Do Shapeshifters Dream Of Electric Sheep would’ve been a better episode. Canaan wasn’t a very interesting character.
    Something that desperately needs resolved is the whole thing surrounding Col. Broyles. I suspect that the reason he’s in cahoots with Jones has something to do with his son, Christopher. Maybe Jones offered Broyles a way to fix Christopher is exchange for aiding him in his Noah’s Ark ZFT thing.
    More thoughts later.

    Like: Thumb up 2

  25. 134sc says

    I very much enjoyed this episode.

    I really liked the Lincolns trying to figure out how they turned into different people. AltLincoln’s reasoning about free will and choosing the man he wanted to be was very poignant. I think the best part of the episode was when Lincoln was yelling at the shapeshifter after AltLincoln got shot; this was the first time Lincoln came out of his shell and it was because a better version of himself was dying. To me it symbolized a passing of the torch so to speak.

    I think TPTB decided to kill off AltLincoln because as cool as he is, there really isn’t anywhere to go with his character. Lincoln on the other hand, has a lot of room to grow. Since the audience has seen him for the majority of this season, whenever we see him again from now on, we should be able to see progression and changes in his character. I think he will eventually turn out to be much like AltLincoln in many respects. Plus, he just fits in so much better on the other side than he does in the BlueVerse.

    That all being said, I did enjoy AltLincoln very much, so although I understand why they killed him off, it still kinda sux.

    I thought it was funny how Lincoln realizes his face is the last face Faulivia would want to see, but then he suggests hanging around for the forseable future. I know its Fringe, but even for Faulivia that has got to be wierd. Not to mention, it looks like there will probably be a romatic angle, thats gotta be even more wierd for her. But I digress.

    ps. Gene in a jacket and a hat…enough said.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 21

    • Roneo says

      “I thought it was funny how Lincoln realizes his face is the last face Faulivia would want to see, but then he suggests hanging around for the forseable future. I know its Fringe, but even for Faulivia that has got to be wierd. Not to mention, it looks like there will probably be a romatic angle, thats gotta be even more wierd for her. But I digress.”

      Wierdest of weirdnesses. I don’t know, if I were her, if it would be fine with me…. It sounds quite un-Dunham thing to me this “The king is dead, long live the king”.

      Like: Thumb up 1

  26. Niomi Lianne says

    I gonna be ok its gonna be ok… NO ITS NOT! LINCOLN IS DEEEEEAAAAD!!!!!! SOB SOB SOB SOB SOB SOB. My heart just got ripped out.

    Like: Thumb up 4

  27. JM says

    Im gonna start of by saying even in season 3 i wasnt that fond of altlinc, but he was acceptable. In this episode i got to see the differences between him and ourlinc, and i have to say ourlinc is so pathetic that it made me think altlinc was awesome, so when he died it was a bit ****.

    As Rae has already said, he, myself and a few others correctly predicted that altlinc would die and linc would take his place in the altverse and probably start a romance with fauxliv. This is all looking very likely. I cant believe fringe is now that predictable (in some of its aspects)

    Trying to get past my pathological hatred for the character is easier said than done, but i can give a bit of credit to seth gabel from showing the intense differences between the pair. But i find his mannerisms, the way he speaks, the way he looks so unbearably cringeworthy that it was hard to get through the episode and i infact skipped a good number of his scenes, i completely skipped his one with olivia at the beginning of the episode as past experience tells me there scenes are never good. I know its completely unreasonable but the scene that exemplfied this for me was when ourlinc was coming through the bridge between universes carrying that box, with a look on his face that i can only describe as “smug”, he looked about 10 and i just couldnt watch the rest of that scene.

    Ive really liked altliv this season and im glad that trend continued in this episode, anna torv was great. Her reaction to altlincs death was exactly how i thought the character should react to her partner of 6 years death, so i was pleased with altlivs character development. She was also bad ass with the sniper rifle. Its unfortunate they are likely to ruin this with an attraction to ourlinc *shudder*.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 22

    • JM says

      I’d also like to add this is the second time i have waited a week in great excitement for a fringe episode and was bitterly disapointed the last one being “wallflower”.

      Just a thought: if they had brought kirk acevedo back and given him lincs storylines (minus the liv love thing) dont you people think it would have been so much better???

      Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 10

      • says

        Re: having Kirk Acevedo (Ah, Charlie) back and shifting some Lincoln stories to him. Yes, I agree. I get that maybe there were some scheduling or budget issues that kept Kirk away. Here’s the beauty part of having a serialized show with a devoted fan base: we wouldn’t need 17-some-odd episodes of exposition to establish Altlivia and Charlie’s friendship and work relationship.

        Here’s a better question: Will Charlie be at Lincoln’s funeral?

        It would be a glaring oversight to have Charlie missing from the funeral. It certainly wouldn’t sit well with me to see an establishing shot of the crowd without Charlie. If we’re going to bring back Porcupine Men and all, we can certainly do better than “Charlie? Eh…he and bug lady are still on their year long honeymoon.”.

        Like: Thumb up 4

      • Sofia says

        I think you’re absolutely right. Charlie and Scarlie really added to the storyline, to the team, and our Lincoln is just unbearable. I can’t believe they will continue to torture us with his presence. Everywhere.

        Like: Thumb up 5

    • PB says

      Not a fan of some of the more predictable aspect of Pinkner and Wyman’s foray into the ‘shipper realm (read seasons three: baby gate, Peter and faux-livia).

      Having said that, regardless of what the intentions of the writers might be in this instance, this was the best episode of the season. Seth Gabel’s amazing acting, the pace of the episode, Alt-strid confronting Broyle’s (it was obvious what was going on in that scene).

      Everything about this episode was screamed early season three. Best episode of the season hands down for me. Even with the predictable Lincoln Lee finds his way home story line, Seth Gabel’s acting was great as was the writing and directing for this episode.

      I would surmise that there is a great deal more at foot insofar as the intentions of the writers is concerned than a weak story arc contrived to ‘ship Blue Lincoln and Fauxlivia.

      This episode is WAY bigger than that.

      Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 17

      • JM says

        Can we agree to disagree? I can see where your coming from and respect your opinion, but i just cannot agree with it, i too liked the advancement of the storyline regarding DRJ and meana, but that didnt merit the episode for me to be the best episode of the season. IMO that was probably 4.09

        Like: Thumb up 4

        • PB says

          Of course, this epi pushed ALL the right buttons for me. The red-verse character development and even Blue-Lincoln character development was phenomenal, loved it.

          I want to see the follow up to that scene with Alt-strid and Alt-Broyles, you could see the look in his eyes that he knew he was had. I don’t think he’s a shifter though.

          I also don’t believe Alt-Lincoln is dead, smoke and mirrors.

          Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 14

          • jkath says

            I interpreted that scene completely different than you. I thought she was there to tell him Lincoln was dead and that his reaction was guilt. Why would she confront him directly about being a mole without involving another agent? She is too smart for that, and I am sure there would be established procedures for what to do when you suspect a mole that do not include confronting him on your own.

            I agree with you though that Alt-Broyles is probably not a shifter. He has shown too many genuine emotions to be one (surprise, fear, anger, guilt), or at least that’s how it seems to me.

            Like: Thumb up 4

      • scully8 says

        PB, I sure hope (and I believe it) that this Lincoln story arc is not simply about shipping with bolivia. I would be extremely disappointed.

        Although I don’t think this is the best episode of the season, it certainly is one of the best. BoLiva definitely was a major part of the episode being great, but also, as you said, the pacing and directing was spot on–the writing was a bit heavy-handed.

        Seth Gabel did an excellent job in this episode. It was the first time that I saw the differences between the two Lincolns.

        Like: Thumb up 3

    • number six says

      I thought AltLivia’s reaction to her partners death was too subdued for the character. When Charlie died, Olivia, who is rather reserved bordering on blank, cried for him. AltLivia looked like she had left her only popcorn bag left in the microwave oven for too long.

      Like: Thumb up 3

      • JM says

        Ok. I thought it actually felt quite natural. Correct me if im wrong, but weve never seen altliv in a situation where she has grieved. So i gave the character leniency in terms of her reaction, it just felt to me like she was trying to stop herself from crying.

        Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 24

        • PB says

          Nah, that was fighting tears. Just like Alt-Linc said at the beginning of the episode, she’s the strong one.

          The emotion was there, she’s one step below military, and keeping it together. Plus, Olivia cried because deep down she’s really emotionally vulnerable, bad childhood.

          Fauxlivia on the other hand is a great deal more self assured and strong. The reaction for this character was spot on, the emotion was all there, the breakdown wasn’t.

          More or less what I would expect.

          Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 26

        • number six says

          Perhaps you are right, but I didn’t feel it. No biggie, it’s not like I loved AltLincoln and wanted some big drama for him, it’s just that I expected more from her.

          Like: Thumb up 1

          • PB says

            It’s all good. I’ve been blowing up threads all season long on Fringe-Forum complaining about out of character acting and poor writing. . . the list goes on and on. . . it just so happens that this episode in particular was a real high note for me.

            Seth Gabel was a badass. Lincoln and Alt-Lincoln are two different people completely, that’s just good acting. As for the rest of it, I could care less about overtures to Fauxlivia/Lincoln shipping, I think there’s more afoot. I don’t think Alt-Linc is dead.

            Something is up. NO BODY YET. It’s a subterfuge!

            Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 14

            • number six says

              “Seth Gabel was a badass. Lincoln and Alt-Lincoln are two different people completely, that’s just good acting. ”

              We’ll have to disagree on that. I was so thankful Lincoln kept the glasses (for recognition purposes)! Now he just has to lose the constipated face and we’ll be good. Errr… not a chance, since AltLincoln had that same face, but at least I hope he stops pitying himself.

              Like: Thumb up 6

    • nora says

      I have to agree with you, JM. Actually I’m quite pride of myself I’ve watched the entire episode (I didn’t skip scenes, but sometimes I HAD TO look away b/c of ourL). I could barely made it… Sorry, but this ep was on a level with “Immortality” and “Bloodline” for me. The only scenes I enjoyed a bit were with the cow, Walter and Peter, and Alt!Nina (her face when she found out the breach and the shifter was priceless). Loved Walter’s enthusiasm about studying… — sideway glace to Peter — um, *helping* the shapeshifter. I won’t repeat myself about Lincoln, I have stated my opinion earlier. I just hope that after the next episode the writers will leave him alone – and give me a break – for the rest of the season…

      Like: Thumb up 7

      • nora says

        Although I’m really glad the majority of you enjoyed the episode… It’s better for the show. *Everything* for the survival of Fringe… (I would even tolerate this character if I must…) Just renew this show for at least a partial (13 or 15 episodes) season 5! It’s simply deserved. ‘Nuff said.

        Like: Thumb up 1

        • nora says

          There’s no smiley in your comment, and there’s a Walternate in your Avatar :), so assuming you’re not joking:
          A classic what…? Before this episode I would have said that’s my least favorite. Never was a big fan of the entire baby Henry plot line…

          Like: Thumb up 0

  28. number six says

    That was awfully predictable and anvilicious. I wasn’t a fan of AltLincoln (Seth Gabel does nothing for me), but at least he wasn’t as dour and bland as Lincoln. Now I’ll just have to wait for the other shoe to drop and for the writers to pair him with AltLivia, since they are incapable of original ideas anymore. Let’s hope it’s short and painless (meaning offscreen).

    The best part of the episode is that there was more action than in the last couple of episodes and that it advanced the DRJ plot, which is always good.

    Things I enjoyed:

    - AltBroyles. Lance Reddick has been sorely underused this season and I’ve missed him terribly, so it was good to see him as Badass Broyles, even if he’s a bad guy.

    - AltNina. I wish they had shown more of her shenanigans with DRJ, before she got captured, but she was great the little screentime she had.

    - The vigilante shapeshifter. The first time this season they made the new shapeshifters somewhat interesting.

    - Lincoln kept his glasses on. The Lincolns are too similar and the last time they met looking exactly the same, I got a headache trying to tell one from the other.

    - Altlivia. This must be the first time that airhead was more or less human. And she saved the day, so I give her props.

    The “Are you kidding me?”:

    - Lincoln. His continued self-pity has been going on for too long and we got another whole episode focusing on it, this time without anesthesia (the regular team). Please, stop. Also, unless they do it for comedy purposes, the writers should stop writing him threatening someone. He is just not believable.

    - AltLivia. I expected more emotion from her about his partner’s death. That was a letdown.

    - Walter/Peter/Olivia. Taking the cow for a walk was more important than doing their jobs. I can’t believe the writers are this lazy.

    Okay episode, that had me half asleep, until Nina appeared on screen.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 12

  29. shidey17 says

    Not gonna comment on the episode tonight….still too busy drooling over AltLiv…

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 19

  30. Ian S. says

    Good, solid episode. I actually did like Lincoln in this episode. He should stay over there, get a home, and our team can visit him sometimes. I do enjoy his character, just not thrown at my face every episode. Seth Gabel is a great actor (I loved Lincoln in season 3) It’s just how this character is written that makes it so horrid to watch. Poor Seth has to put up with it :’(

    Speaking of Lincoln, RIP Alt-Lincoln..you will be missed. I feel so bad for Fauxlivia, you can tell just how close they were to each other.

    Loved the DRJ storyline in this one, and really looking forward to the next. The storylines are being unravelled now.

    8/10

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 18

  31. Ian S. says

    And, wait, so is the public aware of the alternate universe now? In ‘One Night in October’ it was all hush hush about the two Olivias being together, and the professor/serial killer was completely surprised by Olivia and Fauxlivia. But, in this episode, we had the two Lincolns walking around like it was no big deal, out in public. There wasn’t even a word about being secret. I thought that at least the other side would know, since their Fringe team is so advanced and with the bridge being created and all…how do you explain that to travel agencies wanting to see the Statue of Liberty..

    Like: Thumb up 1

    • willg says

      They were keeping it hush hush in One night in October because the professor was from our universe and our side civilians know nothing about the alternate universe.

      Like: Thumb up 4

  32. PB says

    I don’t think he’s dead. This episode was 10/10 for me. Definitely the best of the season and better than a lot of the crap from previous seasons.

    Seth Gabel lit it up. Blair Brown was amazing. Loved the guilty countenance of Broyles after being confronted by Alt-strid. Loved all the alt-verse mythos (anybody else notice the USSR poster at the very beginning? :P)

    Gene was wearing an FBI jersey and BOOTS!!! A cow in boots!

    This episode had it all.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 18

  33. willg says

    No disrespect to anyone, but I gotta say this ‘so predictable’ thing is bothering me a little bit. I understand a few people have predicted what happened, but just because you throw out many predictions and a few were correct does not mean that is predictable.

    Secondly, by predictable do you mean that at some point in season one no one knew we would end up going to an alternate universe; or that Peter and Olivia would somehow end up together; or that because there are dopplegangers on the other side that at some point there was going to be switch of characters unbeknownst to everyone except the other characters on our side; or that we would see our character get back to our universe; or that Peter was going to return from whatever ether he was inhabiting.

    My point is that there are many things that are going to happen that we know are going to happen. Predictable is not always a bad thing, especially in fringe where there is quite a bit of the unpredictable. Everything does not have to have an M. Night Shyamalan ‘I see dead people twist’ in order for it to be good. All the things above we knew would happen at some point (call it predictable if you will), but it is more about how well it’s done than if you know it is coming. Sort of like the Titanic; if you liked that movie it really did not matter that you knew the end.

    I thought Lincoln was really good over there; he has a niche there (more so now-maybe). Many did not see the death coming (kudos to those who did), but a few predicting this does not mean it was predictable. By the way I get all the unpredictable I need at the season finale’s(which I am pretty sure almost no one has predicted those correctly), and at other points here or there.

    Sorry about the rant; I understand if some felt it was predictable, but I think most didn’t. I could be wrong. However I will admit if they hook up Altliv and our Lincoln that will be fairly predictable. Hopefully this will not happen, but if it does hopefully it will be done well.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 25

    • Kelly says

      Agreed with all of this. I would also like to add that just because some called the AltLinc-dying-and-OurLinc-taking-his-place thing doesn’t mean that the hypothetical AltLiv/OurLinc romance is actually going to happen too. I’m guessing it’s not, unless we get a season 5 maybe. There’s not enough time left this season to develop something like that. They might just become good friends and partners (at work).

      Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 17

    • Amanda says

      Agreed. Some things in Fringe are predictable. But it’s always been about the journey, the ‘how the heck is it going to pan out so this does happen?’ that makes it exciting.

      Like: Thumb up 1

  34. Liz says

    I’m just five minute in this episode and wait… are writers trying put Lincoln in the same spot with first season Peter:
    Linc: “Danzig knew I was never much
    for putting down roots. I never really stayed
    in the same place too long.” Too much coincidence, it is the same words for Peter analogy. What’s with that, writers? Like, every character must be miserable. It’s depressing and annoying. Nonexistencegods, I miss adorkable Liv :D
    p.s. I will probably need Community episode to cheer me up after this episode.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 13

    • Liz says

      cont…

      after watching: ok episode. Lincoln (or S.G) is really loved by writers. They gave him so much in one episode. And don’t worry, Alt Linc lovers, I assure you he is NOT DEAD. To quote J.J. words on Wondercon: nobody is really dead on Fringe.
      One observation: I notice, in every interview so far, S.G. insist how Linc is in love with Olivia, and I don’t see it. I like Linc, I like connection between Linc and Olivia (both versions), it is a FRIENDLY one, but please, please, please, writers, don’t go “down with love road” with Linc and ALt Olivia/Red. This would be one cup to many for me. And I really, really like Fringe. But, just…don’t…

      Like: Thumb up 6

      • JM says

        It just emphasises for me how much lance reddick has been underutilised this season.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9

        • James says

          Though it’s nice to see Blair actually being given something to do this season.

          She has been nothing short of phenomenal.

          Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 12

      • Robert Ariadne says

        Yeah, when they said Altlinc was dead, my first thought was “Dead does NOT equal dead on this show”. I think he’ll be back as a shape-shifter, though.

        Like: Thumb up 0

  35. James says

    Don’t believe Lincolnate is dead.

    If he was going to die, why not use the scene where he was actually shot and have him die there?

    Off-screen death speaks volumes to me.

    Like: Thumb up 7

    • DeepRunner says

      Next week’s teaser shows them at the funeral of The Lincoln We Really Want (as opposed to Our Little Lincbot). But J.J. Abrams faked Vaughn’s death in Alias, another show where no matter how many times you killed a person, they never died. So maybe we will see The Lincoln We Really Want again.

      Like: Thumb up 1

  36. Pottery says

    If they could bring back the crispy Altlincoln, they can bring back the shot-up Altlincoln.

    Like: Thumb up 3

  37. DeepRunner says

    A major eyeroll moment of the episode for me came at the beginning, when “True Baby Blue Continental” Lincoln was getting the maze medallion from Olivia, talking about how he needed a place to call home, how he never was able to stay in one place for very long…

    REALLY? Must they make him out to be like Peter? As I have said before, I don’t mind Our Lincoln, although they really SHOULD have allowed Red Lincoln to live. But having him use Peter’s lines? Especially since Lincoln doesn’t seem like the peripatetic sort, but rather someone who is a fan of stability.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 10

    • Liz says

      “talking about how he needed a place to call home, how he never was able to stay in one place for very long…”
      Right? I also was: wait, isn’t these Peter’s lines/life?

      Like: Thumb up 6

      • number six says

        Consider the whole season, though. When has Lincoln been his own character? He’s been at times Peter’s stand-in or Olivia’s stand-in, depending on what the episode needed. His scenes with Olivia have been rip-offs from previous Peter/Olivia scenes and, in one case, from a AltLincoln/AltOlivia scene. Him losing a partner and being thrown in a world of weird stuff (S1 Olivia). The time Olivia rescued him from the fungus (parallel to AltLincoln holding AltOlivia). Olivia getting ready for a date with him (rip-off from Jacksonville). “If you need me, I’m here” (Peter said that to Olivia in The Transformation). He can’t have original material for himself and I’ll have to chalk it out to the writers’ inability to be original anymore.

        And to top it all, he’s stealing Peter’s theme about finding his home/being forgotten. At least AltLincoln was his own independent character, clearly meant to be Peter’s replacement in the alternate universe (charismatic science guy), but with his unique story and without the need to recycle scenes from seasons past for him.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9

        • number six says

          Thinking about it… now that red Lincoln is dead, amber Lincoln will start behaving more like him. Like a personality vampire, since he has none of his own.

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8

        • nora says

          Thank you! Couldn’t agree more! I’m glad I was not the only one aware of and actually offended by that. Him stealing Peter’s lines made me – still makes me – angry. And his theme! – it was so obvious in this episode. I understand the theory behind all this (balance between the unverses etc.), but it makes him cheap, a copycat. IMO the writers could have been at least a bit more original…

          Like: Thumb up 5

          • Liz says

            Ooo my, reading all this, conclusion: Lincoln is actually trying to be Peter, no joke! Are writers actually trying to make Linc to be Peter 2.0.?

            Like: Thumb up 4

            • number six says

              They always have, which is a shame, because I expected better from them. They left the personality vampire alive.

              Like: Thumb up 6

            • Darth Kate says

              Peter would have to have a character in the first place for that to happen. In the span of two episodes Bluelinc has gotten more emotional development than peter has in the whole show. So, yeah. I’m gonna run away now that i’ve said that.
              *flees angry fangirls*

              Like: Thumb up 7

              • Liz says

                No, no :) you’re actually right, Linc get in one episode more than Astrid, Nina, Broyles, even Peter in sum of all 4 season. I guess, writers really love S.G./Lincoln.

                Like: Thumb up 6

                • Lincless says

                  That’s what bugs me perhaps the most.
                  If they (writers) want their Lincoln on Fringe, fine. Everybody needs their favourit toys.

                  But it’s so disrespectful towards the other actors on the show who’s characters have been so terribly neglected over years and still are.
                  It took us 4 years to know Astrid actually has a life outside the lab. It took us 4 years to give Nina an integral part of the story etc.
                  And Lincoln/Gabel as a newcomer is instantly treated like a some kind of superstar.

                  I dislike Lincoln, right. But I’m fine with that, nobody has to like all characters. But I just can’t get over the irrationally exaggerated screentime they give him.

                  Like: Thumb up 6

                  • Darth Kate says

                    disrespectful?… really? I find it odd that you guys seem determined to cling to underdeveloped characters like peter, only to turn around and get angry at other characters who actually *do* get developed. kinda backwards if i do say so myself.

                    Like: Thumb up 4

                    • Lincless says

                      I don’t know why you are suddenly talking about Peter.

                      I don’t like the character of Lincoln. You obviously do.
                      Just accept it and be happy.

                      Like: Thumb up 3

              • number six says

                You wish! :P Emotional development as in “Please, join my pity party” for 3 episodes straight. He will have emotional development, when he stops moping around.

                Like: Thumb up 4

              • nora says

                I’m a fan of him, and actually a girl (if you could call a 28 years old woman a “girl”), but you don’t have to flee. We’re not nearly that horrible, I assure you. I know you think only a pimpled teenager would like him, and I think you’re wrong, but that’s alright. As long as we respect each others’ opinion, everything is fine.

                Like: Thumb up 4

                • Darth Kate says

                  There’s nothing wrong with liking him. I like him, I just think that his character has been sorely mishandled. There’s a designated place for love interests and when they leave that place things tend to get stupid.

                  Like: Thumb up 4

                  • nora says

                    OK, after a few hours sleep, I can see now I didn’t choose the best words to give my opinion. But fortunately Rae, DeepRunner and scully8 said everything I wanted to (thank you). Just to be clear: I don’t just “like” him, I also think he’s a good and complex character, there IS a big progression, and the writers all in all treat him very well, but I still believe TPTB “bended” him with Faux. On his importance: hopefully the writers will give us an explanation in the future, but even if they won’t… well, it wouldn’t cause me sleepless nights. It’s only September’s opinion now, by the way, and IMO he became emotionally attached to the Three and got involved to the situation in the same way.

                    Like: Thumb up 1

              • says

                God Bless you for saying this, Darth Kate! It does such a huge disservice to Peter and all the other characters that they focus on Lincoln so much and give him far more development. They are so concerned in making sure that he ends up happy (by pairing him with an Olivia), but what about Astrid’s happy ending, or Nina’s happy ending or Broyles’ happy ending? What about giving those characters that have been there since the very beginning the development that they deserve?

                Peter’s quest for home has been a genuine journey, a journey that we can appreciate and understand. He is the character that should be trying to make sense of everything in the alternate universe since it’s…wait for it…his home!!! In addition to building the bridge literally, Peter should also be the metaphorical bridge that builds ties between the red universe and the blue universe and between the old timeline and the new one. Lincoln Lee is a background character- if they are able to treat him so well, I wonder why they haven’t treated their other background characters as well. They clearly seem capable of it. Grrrr….

                Like: Thumb up 5

            • nora says

              “Lincoln is actually trying to be Peter” – emphasis on “trying”… I know Peter’s character isn’t “flawless”. IMO because the writers simply don’t treat him well enough – sometimes it’s easier, or more convenient to them to “bend” his character to the story than the other way around (first of all I’m thinking of Faux and Henry). But he can stand on his own. (Don’t tell anybody: secretly he’s my favorite, although it didn’t started that way.) He deserves a more worthy parallel, or in this case, a “personality vampire” – that’s kind, number six… Or should I call him a “compassionate soul vampire”? Belly, anyone? L. is just a stowaway for me (pun intended).

              Like: Thumb up 5

              • Darth Kate says

                On the contrary, the writers treat peter WAY better than they need to. He’s the obligatory love interest guy/occasional plot device with some snark. That’s his role, as developed for the first few seasons. Now, there’s nothing wrong with that, but that kind of character has a very specific place in a story, and that place is *not* the forefront of the narrative. Yet for whatever reason, they let him take over the whole story for almost a season and a half and become fringe-jesus even in spite of their much better-developed main protagonist. Plus they have yet to justify why *Peter* specifically was the key to the machine at all, even though they spent two whole seasons building up Olivia as being the “guardian” who was the strongest of all the cortexiphan subjects. *That* would be a logical justification for why someone would be able to work a giant plot device machine. The only thing *special* about peter is that the observers keep telling us he’s important. Again, the problem is not with his character, but in how he’s been handled by the writers in the story. It doesn’t make sense from a structural standpoint.

                Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 11

                • Rae says

                  I have to admit, in the beginning, Peter wasn’t my favorite character either, but after four seasons of what I view as impressive character progression, he’s easily become my smile illicit-er.

                  Arguably, he could be viewed as a weak narrative to a story that was meant for a different protagonist, but I’ve thought, ever since the first season, that he was going to come to play a much bigger role then the reticent recluse who disowns his father with cynical skepticism.

                  For me, Peter holds the Sam Wise aspect of the Fringe-story to me. Meaning, Sam Wise was just a gardener with a pony who was a friend of the Protagonist, Frodo. Turns out, at the end of the tale, the portly hobbit is the reason Frodo makes it up Mount Doom and ultimately, saves Middle Earth. Pardon my nerd metaphor, but Peter is here, like Gamgee was there, at the start, a seemingly specific character with a specific story aspect, who grows to have a much bigger role, with a much more climatic ending.

                  That’s why, I suppose, I consider Peter’s character not poorly handled, but infinitely progressing. Surprisingly, I’m not even a J.J bias fangirl, because, coming into this fandom, I hardly knew any of his work, and the character was only a so-so for me, as I mentioned earlier. It was after my consistent Fringe marathons, that I realized how well his character has actually been written, and how, I think, I can honestly say it’s blown me away with evolution of what I thought was a specific directional narrative.

                  I think, the writers, (but perhaps not to the extent it is now) knew Peter’s character would carry a considerable weight by the end of later seasons. This all started, remember, because the Observer saved Peter because he is important. Yes, this hasn’t been fully explained, and I hold out hope that it will be, but it was obvious to me, that even in the first season, young Bishop was going to state his on-screen presence a lot more profoundly later on for much deeper reasons.

                  Personally, I like how it’s all played out. I like how my assumption of who Peter was supposed to become was flipped on its head by the middle of season two. I like how he became just as valuable a character as Dunhman. I felt that there was a balance there that I’d appreciated, and I knew, from that point on, Dunham and Peter would be the foci of the story and everything that happens takes place in the axis between them, parallel worlds and all.

                  Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 20

                  • nora says

                    Rea, I always love your comments. I ♥ them very, very much. Can I say we’re in the same boat? Please? Maybe even on Reiden Lake? — Oh, I want to crack a joke so bad, but then Kate would probably stigmatize me with the fangirl thing for a life – some help: just thinking of Subject 9. :)

                    Like: Thumb up 5

                    • nora says

                      *Rae. Sorry, I just saw I wrote your name wrong. Beautiful name, by the way. I just associated to the mythologic Rhea while typing, I think.

                      Like: Thumb up 0

                    • says

                      Lol !
                      Will the 2 of you be in the boat, with towel in hand for Peter, when he blasts to the surface of Lake Reiden ?

                      Like: Thumb up 2

                    • nora says

                      Absolutely! Speaking on my behalf: That’s exactly what a “fangirl” would do, wouldn’t she? :)

                      Like: Thumb up 1

                  • Darth Kate says

                    See that’s the problem. His *role* may have progressed, but i don’t think his character has. At least not enough to warrant all of the screen time he’s been given.

                    Like: Thumb up 6

                    • DeepRunner says

                      Oh, c’mon Kate, Peter’s character went from thoroughly disliking and not wanting to be around Walter (the Pilot) to forgiving Walter for kidnapping him, to wanting to be with Walter out of a “son’s” love for his “father.” That is pretty substantial progression for a character.

                      Add to that that he was kerplunked into a world that didn’t know him (season 4) with a woman he loved who was spooked by this “stranger,” with a man who wanted nothing to do with him. And he very much wanted to get “home” to his people.

                      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8

                  • scully8 says

                    Rae, as always, wonderfully expressed.

                    Also, on a more basic level, the Peter character has gone from the ‘boy’ to the ‘man’ this season. His maturity has been demonstrated this season in how he handled his situation in a different timeline and his interaction with all of the characters, especially his interaction with Olivia. I was never a fan of Josh Jackson’s acting abilities, but this season he’s been outstanding; and after multiple re-watches of previous seasons’ episodes, he is very good.

                    Finally, the character’s (Peter) importance to the story was best illustrated by how uncomfortable we were as an audience with his absence, as well as the characters. He is definitely the glue that holds the family together.

                    In terms of Lincoln, I agree that he has been given major attention, but I believe that was always the intention of the showrunners and the writers. This episode, finally allowed the character to have something to do and a purpose.

                    Like: Thumb up 6

                • nora says

                  Then we’re talking about two different things – I totally understand what you’re saying. I’ve read Roco’s reviews, and I know his opinion is the same. But I also understand the writers’ idea – they don’t EXACTLY treat their characters in a conventional way. On a one level, yes. But on another level, they see them as PEOPLE. I’ll tell you something – I haven’t seen a lot of tv shows, but I’ve read a lot, and I write. And when you write, you don’t see your characters as plot devices, or as check figures, you treat them as human beings. Even if it started this way, in the end you’ll become emotionally attached to them. Even to the worst character… So… these are two separate things. We can see things from different aspects, without these aspect being invalid. On the story level, Peter IS some kind of plot device, but he’s not JUST this. On a character level, he’s human – that’s how he came through me, so: as a character, as a man, I like him. I like the writers’ conception, the complexity of it. You can chew on this forever, and I like to chew. Hell, I’m maybe even grateful for this Lincoln guy, because he makes me think. That’s why we’re here now, on this site, aren’t we? And that’s all I wanted to say.

                  Like: Thumb up 4

                    • nora says

                      Whoa, JM, calm down. :) You love this show, I know you do. I rarely made a comment, but I’ve been paying attention all the time. You were observed.

                      Like: Thumb up 4

                  • lizw65 says

                    If you come down to it, EVERY fictional character is a plot device in some way or another–that is, they are created to service the story the writer(s) wish to tell. That doesn’t mean any one of them can’t, or shouldn’t be given story arcs or development as the writer sees fit. In the immortal words of Clint Eastwood, “Deserves’ got nothing to do with it.”
                    Yes, I know Josh Jackson has described his character in interviews as a “living MacGuffin”, but when you think about it, the same can be said for Olivia. Both she and Peter are objects of desire, both exist to serve some nebulous, as-yet-undefined “greater purpose”–but at the same time, both are far more proactive than any other MacGuffin of fiction (such as, say, the Maltese Falcon or the suitcase in Pulp Fiction, or even the conventional fairy tale princess given as a “reward” to the prince for completing a quest) ever is, and as such, the label really doesn’t fit.

                    Like: Thumb up 5

                    • nora says

                      Like I said: while they treat them as plot devices, they don’t EXACTLY treat them as such. IF I understood your words correctly – you basically agreed with me, didn’t you, lizw? Oh, I wish my English was more advanced!

                      Like: Thumb up 1

                  • Darth Kate says

                    I get where your coming from in dealing with the characters as *people* but at the end of the day this is still a fictional story and they are fictional elements within it. You guys seem to be viewing the whole thing a bit too organically, for my tastes at least. I think that in order to objectively examine a story you have to view it both as an experience (which you guys seem to have no problem doing) AND as a narrative construct which has been consciously assembled and produced. Both perspectives are just as important to the analysis.

                    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9

                    • says

                      I agree that we have yet to understand why Peter is so important. He built the bridge and so you would think that his importance would stop there, but September keeps insisting that he’s important. I hope that we get the answer to that soon.

                      Like: Thumb up 1

                    • nora says

                      Just one more thing, and I’m really done. I confess: I’m also a P/O shipper, and I’m not ashamed of it. Plot devices, not plot devices, narrative construct, not narrative construct, I want them together, to make it to the finale. So… looks like I’m a “fangirl” after all! :)

                      Like: Thumb up 3

                    • nora says

                      Yep, totally a fangirl. As I’m thinking more about it, Kate, actually I think you will be nausated by my tumblr blog. But, as I’ve said, I regret nothing.

                      Like: Thumb up 1

                    • Darth Kate says

                      Why does the reply button always seem to conk out after a certain number of posts?

                      Like: Thumb up 4

  38. oliviaella says

    Many thing is good. But why should he have to be dead? I really like him. That is make me sad.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 13

  39. bdp says

    I gotta say this season has made me LOVE Altliv so much more. I already loved the snarkiness and swagger she had, even with all the reasons to dislike her in the previous season, but now with all the Peter stuff null and void she’s just been amazing this season. And I think the writers have purposefully made her that way, a way to show us fans that if it weren’t for her corruption of Peter last season she was an extremely alluring character. And I also have to say that I think her and Lincoln are a much better fit than Lincoln and Olivia or Altlivia and Alt-Lincoln. It makes sense too, Our Olivia is fated for the Peter that was really born over there so why shouldn’t AltLivia be with someone who is from Over Here.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 21

    • Niomi Lianne says

      For everyone who thinks that linc will sponge up alt linc’s character, you have to understand that these are tw different people. something in their lives made them different. Sayin that linc will become altlinc is like saying that liv and altliv are exactly the same.

      Like: Thumb up 1

  40. Rae says

    Watching it again, and getting a considerable amount of needed sleep, I have to say, that I’m more open-minded about this situation then before.

    I’m saying that, because I gotta hand it to S.G in this episode. He honestly states his character presence in the Red-Verse, and it’s about time I felt he did somewhere. Because of that, and because Alt-Liv is so amazing and she seems so genuinely grateful for his help, that I’m going to give him, and whatever their aspiring relationship may be, the benefit of the doubt.

    Yes, I predicted that whole Alt-Linc dies and Blue-Linc stays Over There, but as willig has stated, I’m not going to be crazy enough to assume that I can predict the rest of what’s to come. I suppose the ‘shipper’ aspect came with how, in almost every show, forced circumstance has the audience, arguably, fighting for the main leads to get together, and running on the heels of that, I figured that M.O would play out here. Perhaps it will, perhaps it won’t. But given second viewing, and the overall impressiveness of this episode, I have to honestly admit that I was wrong to think I wouldn’t like the idea, and am just going to play it by ear from here on out.

    I owe all of this to Alt-Livia, and her making me love anything from the Red-Verse….oh, besides Petah… ;)

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9

    • hsa says

      Absolutey, Rae. I hope you do not have a hangover. We will love blue Lincoln living in the redverse and maybe Altlivia will love hom too. Will he be Blincoln?

      Like: Thumb up 1

      • Rae says

        Hey, you know, maybe. And you know what, good for him if he finds a place where he feels valuable.

        Like I said before, this episode made me like our Lincoln more, because, I felt him have actual chemistry with characters Over There. And chemistry incurs emotional entanglement and emotional entanglement, when done correctly, incurs character progression, so I’m holding out hope.

        Kudos to S.G.

        And ugh, no, no hangover…much… Thank God I work nightshift. I can get over my Friday antics. lmao.

        Like: Thumb up 2

  41. cliff says

    bleh, they killed the good lincoln to make the annoying lincoln take his place. i really enjoyed everything about red lincoln ever since he was introduced in over there. his character was so much more fun.

    i also guess that since both lincolns had the same past, they both knew nick lane at some point. ha, maybe our lincoln will reveal how. doubtful.

    Like: Thumb up 2

  42. mlj102 says

    I came here expecting some really low opinions of this episode, and I have to say, I couldn’t be happier to be proven wrong. While clearly people still aren’t a big fan of Lincoln, it seems the majority of people still enjoyed this episode a lot. As for me, I’m going to keep this comment relatively simple and to the point. Was it my favorite episode? No. Did I hate it? No. Personally, the Broyles-centric episode (Earthling) was more disappointing to me than this one was. This episode actually had a lot of things about it that I really liked.

    Things I didn’t like:

    Lack of over here Walter, Peter, and Olivia: even seeing them at the end felt really weird when compared with the over there tone to the rest of the episode.

    Not sending Olivia just because of her memory loss: If the purpose was to brief the other side about Jones, then it seems like it would make more sense to send Olivia because she has knowledge of Jones from before and what he was doing in previous events. And I think she remembers enough about Jones (when he kidnapped her, etc.) to be more than adequate in briefing the other side about him and his motives and their past experiences with him. This, combined with grazing day (while amusing) was a bad way to justify her not being the one going over there.

    Over There Lincoln’s death: we all predicted it, yet I was still disappointed when it actually happened… I actually quite liked Over There Lincoln.

    (As for the theory that he has faked his death because he suspects Broyles, it makes sense, and it’s possible, but I hope not. As much as I’m sad that they killed off his character, I really dislike it when a show kills a character, but then finds some sort of loophole to bring the character back. I found Heroes did that a lot… and it got old really fast. I think it takes away from the power and emotion of the event and it makes it so I don’t trust the show to do anything because they can always find a way around it. There have to be events that happen that are permanent and have lasting consequences. I am sad they killed alternate Lincoln, but now that they’ve established him as dead, I want them to continue with that and explore the consequences of that rather than taking it back in a few more episodes. Plot twists are one thing, but making the audience believe something permanent and significant happened (such as a character death), only to later reveal that it didn’t happen is just shallow and frustrating.)

    Olivia’s only appearance was wasted in yet another awkward memory loss moment with Lincoln: aside from the fact that I don’t understand why she’s losing her memories from this season, it doesn’t help that they continue to point out moments with Lincoln that she’s forgotten. What’s the point? It doesn’t do either character any favors. Just move on already.

    No alternate Charlie: not even a mention? He’s just as much a part of the over there team as Peter is to the over here team… I was sad he wasn’t there. Maybe next week for Lincoln’s funeral?

    Things I liked:

    Being Over There: I like the subtle differences, I like(d) the dynamic of the Over There team, even alternate Olivia is becoming more likable (it’s almost as if Season 2 alternate Olivia was a completely different person). I’ve become pretty fond of the other side, the alternate characters, and their world, so it’s nice to get over there from time to time.

    The theme of finding your place in the world: I thought it was a significant theme and they conveyed it very well through the events in this episode, both for Lincoln and Canaan. There were some great moments along with some good writing for this theme. Even if it did parallel Peter’s similar need to find a place where he belongs, it was still portrayed differently and “resolved” differently that it didn’t really bother me. I just really liked how they developed this idea of finding a place where you matter and where you belong.

    The twist: Maybe others saw it coming, but it took me a minute to realize that Canaan had shifted into Nina’s associate. I thought that was really clever and a brilliant way for them to corner Nina.

    Alternate Nina being captured: something about seeing here there, surrounded by helicopters (?) with her hands up in surrender was very satisfying.

    Shapeshifters and Jones: This episode did a lot to continue the shapeshifter story, giving some insight into those who have pledged themselves to helping Jones and his cause, and getting both teams in a position where they can really start actively addressing the threat he poses. I think it set the stage for what’s to come at the end of this season and I’m excited to see that.

    As for Lincoln, he had his irritating moments (on the way to the scene with alternate Olivia discussing Jones and how he dosed Olivia with Cortexiphan, explaining his “cause” to Colonel Broyles, walking in on alternate Olivia as she was grieving the loss of her partner) and he had his good moments (I liked the batman discussion, along with him and alternate Lincoln going back and forth trying to figure out how their lives were different, and I thought he was really good working with Canaan). I don’t love the character, but they pulled it off in this episode without being boring, obnoxious, or detracting from the events of the episode.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 15

  43. shidey17 says

    I just started my rewatch, and I have to admit, there are a couple scenes that are really bothering me.

    First off, I’m not a Lincoln hater. I’ve always loved AltLinc, and I haven’t been fond of OurLinc, but he was growing on me a bit. I just feel like we’re being beat over the head with him. The first scene was just so odd…..don’t get me wrong, I love seeing a cow in an FBI jacket and boots, but I just can’t picture impatient Olivia going along with “grazing day.” And what’s with these long speeches we are getting from Lincoln? I liked the exchanges between him and AltLinc, and I think that is a much better way to get background on his character.

    The thing that stood out to me most in this scene is the charm, making the right choices, and finding home in the center. To me, this was more about the overarching theme of the show and the time loop than it was on illuminating Lincoln’s character – it’s already been painfully obvious he does not seem to fit in anywhere.

    Second, the scene where he has the shapeshifter against the fence and is screaming at him to choose: I literally wanted to jump into my TV and punch him in the face. I get that Seth Gabel doesn’t write the lines, but damn, we’ve gotten some of the greatest lines ever on this show, can’t the writers throw him a little bone?

    I love love love the AltVerse. We need to see more of them, I think.

    PS Did anyone want to scream, “Is that Richard Alpert?!” when the shapeshifter came into his final form?

    Like: Thumb up 5

  44. Liz says

    I really love Fringe, I can dig almost everything what writers put on us, but in this case, when cancellation/end of storytelling is very close, why put whole season on introducing new character? Writers/showrunners always on comic con meetings talked how they never accommodate story to Fox demands or individual actors, but I don’t know anymore about that. This whole Amber Universe seems so wrong from the start. They wiped all from season 1-3, and even if were some cringe-worthy stuff in those seasons, they destroyed all characters development. This Walter isn’t the same and you can’t make AmberWalter to do “ourwalterthings” to make us suddenly to love him. He was very rude/almost hateful to Peter that most us fans were in shock. And now is “everything ok”. No, for me, isn’t. My problem with this kind of shows, is that most important stuff, stuff what characters need to say between each other, stay off screen (thanks to talented people over there on fan-fiction board, they feed my hunger for these scene). And don’t let me start about AmberOlivia and her behavior toward Peter. Writers had so much rich material here, and they choose what, to simply erase her memory? Lazy writing. I’m of opinion that TPTB simple didn’t need to introduce to us Our side Lincoln, but develop AlterLincoln and put him the role of what writers intended with character Lincoln place in this storytelling. Everybody already loved AlterLincoln, and ThisSide Lincoln didn’t had good place from the start, as many fans saw him as Peter substitute, and he was unfortunately, presented as one.
    As for Bolivia, I liked her from the start, and I’m sad that Bolivia from 3. season isn’t here anymore. She had good character development. Everybody hated her in the start of 3. season, and by the end, she was on our side, fighting for her son and for Peter. And suddenly she was loved. That was good development. And I’m maybe in minority, I actually liked how Peter made influence on her. Now, this is all gone. And I feel cheated a little. Truthfully, and don’t kill me all, I’m little tired of Fringe trying to many universe/version of character I once loved to crop in one story. Kudos to ALL actors, they made this show truly one of kind, but sometimes is like writers don’t know where they’re going, or on what speed they’re going. So much more questions, and no time to tell answers.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 17

    • Briar says

      I have the same feeling, that this season started without the writers really knowing where they were going. Perhaps they were so convinced there wouldn’t a fourth season that they had wrapped up the story lines for the season 4 finale, whch they then abruptly changed to lead us into season 4. Except that it didn’t do so in a good way but in a muddled, bad tempered, aimless way. They had to drag it out though since they had no idea of where they were heading. So we get slow motion Peter taking a long time to discover these are the original characters he (and we) grew to love, all the time ignoring the fact that Olivia is in trouble and needs him, as well as a slow motion freezing of the relationships between them, capped by an unconvincing speeded up conversion of amberlivia into our Olivia and a sudden end to the Ice Age. Ten or so episodes of ice age before the thaw. A lot of precious Fringe episode time wasted! Even now I am not convinced they quite know what they want to do – revisiting season 1 plots in a selective way and reinterpreting them doesn’t convince me. It just makes me think they still don’t have any new ideas. And already the end of the season is racing up, with the axe still hanging over the show’s head, so if we are to get a decent finale, to the season or the show, the decision needs to be taken. This last minute process of execution or reprieve serves the shows involved very badly indeed – it breaks the creative flow and means we get extemporaneous and expedient writing, which sparks some imaginations, but not it seems those of the Fringe team.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9

      • JM says

        I agree with what both of you are saying. The walter we have at the moment, may be acting like the original walter, but he still isnt. Having just Olivia remember is annoying because we dont get the character development back for all the other original characters.

        I also dont like the fact that the writers expect us to just accept that the relationships are nearing normal and not showing us on screen how that has come to be. I have a few examples of this. First of all Astrid and Peter seem to be back to their old relationship, but they didnt have on scene together until about episode 10 (i think) and now their back to being buddies again, i just dont get it. The walter relationship i can accept more as theyve been spending a lot of time together but still…meh.

        Another example was Peter interrogating the witness at the crime scene. So we have magically gone from not being able to go near children to that, with almost nothing shown on screen, admittedly there has been some obvious gaining of trust, but hes still some guy that they dont know and now hes called in ahead of olivia (although she was suspended..) and interrogates a witness!?…. lazy, lazy writing.

        I also agree that the callbacks to season 1, while gratifying is just not moving as any further forward in the narrative.

        I know wyman and pinkners plan was to prove that P/O’s love is an “important one” but 15 episodes to get to that so we can move on!? really guys…..really…

        Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 11

        • number six says

          I feel the opposite regarding the Peter/Astrid and Peter/Walter relationships. Astrid didn’t reject Peter, like Walter and Olivia did. She’s a very approachable person and Peter immediately fell back to talking to her as a friend, because it was the natural thing for him to do. That is the only relationship this season that felt organic to me.

          However, Walter’s acceptance of Peter isn’t as convincing. His irrational rage and hatred lasted for too long, only to magically disappear two episodes ago. Going from “go away, you’re evil and you’re harming Olivia” to giving him presents is not a very natural progression in my books. If I accept this relationship now, it’s not because the writers have dona a great job selling it, but because I have to and because I was tired of Walter behaving like an irrational pissy child.

          Like: Thumb up 6

          • JM says

            Hmm, i can see your viewpoint… everything just took too long this season and with almost no payoff

            Like: Thumb up 7

      • Liz says

        “..we get slow motion Peter taking a long time to discover these are the original characters..”
        YES, but unfortunately writers didn’t show us his state of mind in this process. He come back, NO ONE remembers him, not father, not lover, and his is alone in the world literally (I loved about Peter how he had this little weird connection with weird friend, Marham one of them, and now we don’t have that anymore *sad*). And writers feels need to gave Lincoln how LINCOLN feels in one character study episode.And I agree with Darth Kate, writers badly handled whole Peter situation, they had “gold mine” with this storytelling, and they didn’t deliver.
        I just miss Blue opening title, and now I just realizing we’ll never see it again…

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8

        • Darth Kate says

          “writers didn’t show us his state of mind in this process. ”

          EXACTLY!!!!!!!!! you have hit the nail on the head!! They spend a whole bunch of time following him around without actually *adding* anything significant to his character. +100 DarthKate Points for you!!!!!!

          Like: Thumb up 6

  45. Rae says

    The best part of this episode, is realizing that everyone in the Alter-Verse is considering our side heroes for the part they played in healing their world. Even Alt-Liv, I could tell, held a certain amount of gratitude for her Blue-Alternate, despite the animosity between them.

    This was an ‘aww’ moment for me. How, after Peter created the bridge, he really did set in motion what was needed for both sides to co-exist in a type of, for lack of a better word, harmony. It was just a great feeling I came away with after re-winding that scene…twice.

    Like: Thumb up 3

    • Roneo says

      Yeah. I really liked the escene between Linc and Liv in which all this is revealed. I also got the feeling that Red is changing her point of view on Olivia (specially after knowing the cortexiphan story and all) and the blue!verse in general. Now I want to see again both Olivias face to face. Since, at it seems, we are leaving the red!verse for good anytime soon, I need a kind of “reconciliation” of Olivias as well as of Walters, to close the cicle properly.

      Like: Thumb up 3

    • says

      Having the other side thank Lincoln for bringing stability into their world confused me a great deal. What did Lincoln do to establish stability between the two worlds? Peter was the one who risked his life to build the bridge and who is a metaphorical bridge between the two worlds. Has Peter even told anyone that he built the bridge? I’m assuming that he hasn’t told anyone since the bridge has already been made and so as long as it remains there, there is no point to telling anyone how it got there in the first place, I guess.

      Whatever the reason, the expressions of gratitude should be aimed at the right person (Peter and by extension, Olivia).

      Like: Thumb up 5

      • number six says

        Well, you know, he gets thanked for Peter’s work. He becomes an expert on shapeshifters, which only means he read Peter’s files, just like I hope Olivia did.

        I agree that the expressions of gratitude should be aimed at Peter and Olivia, but I admit the situation wasn’t realistic to me. I could believe a shift from resentment to friendship, but from that to be considered heroes? Unlikely. To them, the other side caused all the damage, so fixing it is the least the could do.

        Like: Thumb up 5

        • Drenami says

          about resentment: I would bet that Walternate took a much longer time to realize 1. what happened to Peter (the picture little blue Liv inadvertently gave him would have ceased to exist much like Henry) and therefore 2. taken a longer time to figure the cause of the degredation.
          This would have had a much different impact on the ZFT and his own disdain for ‘our side’. It is even possible that the general public(or lower level militay) was not even made aware of another world Until the bridge is revealed to be the key to restoration of their own. In other words, maybe in the new timeline they didn’t have as long to build resentment so the leap to hero might not be as drastic as we (who are stuck in the old timeline ) feel it should be.

          Like: Thumb up 0

      • Liz says

        “…What did Lincoln do to establish stability between the two worlds? Peter was the one who risked his life to build…”

        Funny, I almost forgot about that scene, is like, writers WANT US to dislike Lincoln, haha. And yes, that whole scene was unrealistic: heroes? riiiight, in what real world that would occur, especially in that short spawn of time, in what, 3 month…

        Like: Thumb up 1

  46. matt says

    weird how good an episode of my favourite show comprising of all of my least favourite parts of it can still be. a testament to this show for sure! I wish they didn’t have to kill my favourite least favourite part though…

    Like: Thumb up 2

    • matt says

      at least maybe we’ll get some episodes on our good ol blue side that feel even more like season one with just those characters around! (more broyles now please)

      Like: Thumb up 3

  47. Ben says

    Massively enjoyed this episode! A trip ‘Over There’ was long overdue, and now we finally have some solid character development for Lincoln and Altlivia, even if it meant the untimely demise of Lincolnate (RIP.) :(

    Highlights for me:

    -Altlivia absolutely stole the show for me. Anna Torv absolutely nails each aspect of her character: the cocky swagger, the sarky humour (calling the Lincoln’s “girls” made the episode for me), and also her grief at the death of her long time partner was believable and moving.

    -Lincoln(s). I can understand why they aren’t the most popular characters on the show, but they offered a lot of interesting insight into the alternate universe theme, especially the idea of ‘Nature v Nurture.’ Without wanting to go into a deep philosophical debate, Lincolnate’s argument that he chose to be the man he is adds a refreshingly optimistic perspective on the idea that we (humanity) are either beings determined by genetics, or simply the products of circumstance.

    - The comic relief has been of a very high standard recently, and that continued again with EIIRP. Gene in an FBI suit… :D

    - Evil Nina. The look on her face after realising she’d been outfoxed was genius! As was the way Fringe Division managed to capture her. At first I thought the Shapeshifter assassin had simply managed to survive Altlivia’s bullet: the revelation that he was actually the vigilante Shapeshifter in a new form was a very shrewd piece of writing.

    - A blow against Jones. Don’t get me wrong, I love DRJ and want to have him in the show as long as possible. However, it is nice for the ‘good guys’ to finally gain some kind of victory over him, as he always seems to be one step ahead. Hopefully they can use the database/Evil Nina to finally unmask the Broylenate shapeshifter, as for some reason I find there to be nothing more frustrating in a TV show than a blatant double agent who somehow avoids being detected.

    Looking forward to next week already!

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 14

    • Red Balloon says

      Agree on every point…there were so many highlights with Altivia and the Lincolns, that I have to consider this episode one of my top 5 this season. I just loved it, Anna Torv was so natural and fantastic in every aspect and Seth Gabel was wonderful in both characters. I guess Lincolns work better when they’re away from the romancing aspect of Olivia and Peter, which really never existed for him thus he felt phony. I hope they keep it that way in the next episodes.

      The alternate world works so well in part because of their lack of softy contrivances (romance), upgrading into a quest desperately in need for answers. They always achieve that, so I will be more than glad if they return PRONTO with them.

      Darn!, Now I’m gonna miss Altivia a LOT! in the next episodes. Maybe she can come visit?

      Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 13

      • Ben says

        Definitely! Altlivia brings so much energy to every scene she’s in, hopefully she can play a key role in bringing down Jones in the remaining few episodes. As good as DRJ is, I don’t think even he would be a match for the combined talents of two Dunhamators :D

        Like: Thumb up 4

  48. DeepRunner says

    LOLOLOLOLOLOL. I could not have expressed it any better, Numero Seis.

    But, to be fair to Seth Gabel, they set up Alt Lincoln as everyone’s barroom buddy before they introduced us to Lincoln the Librarian. Seth Gabel has done a good job of showing the contrasts between the two characters. I believe our Lincoln is one of the good guys who has always had to be in the shadow of someone else. I am ambivalent toward this character: I see him as necessary and a good add to the Fringe team, but he was never meant to be one of the Big Three. He was never gonna be Peter, Over Here, anyway. I think the writers made the calculated gamble to make him so…so…so…so-so as a lead, so that Peter’s return would be even more awesome because the contrast was so stark. Our Lincoln also was the only humane person on the team toward Peter when he DID return.

    Now that he has meandered Over There, he may indeed be in his right place. But please, please, PLEASE dear writers and producers, do not give us an on-the-rebound romance. Find someone else for the Redhead Bombshell. Make it interesting. And let Lincoln find love with another character that you can bring on in Season 5.

    Like: Thumb up 6

  49. Robert Ariadne says

    When that guy mentioned losing two Fillmores, did anyone else think of “We Are The Mediocre Presidents”?

    Like: Thumb up 0

  50. Red Balloon says

    Maybe it’s a little off, but I’ve been thinking about it, and this whole character development of Lincoln, which BTW worked out to be pretty well by the end of this episode (apparently a waste of time between wallflower and a short story about love); means there’ll be more to it, so wouldn’t he likely be the man who dropped his glasses when Olivia arrived to the Grayson Hotel in “Jacksonville”?

    At the time I was trying to get any resemblance to any of the characters we’ve known, but Lincoln wasn’t in the picture, at least our Lincoln with glasses, but now?…take a look and you’ll be a little surprise that he actually looks like Older Lincoln. (future Lincoln?)

    Like: Thumb up 0

  51. Alt-Gene says

    Please correct me if I’m wrong but when Peter went back home at the end of season 2 didn’t we see some alternate comic book covers on his bedroom wall including Death of Batman (instead of our Superman)? Did Bats disappear with Peter?

    Like: Thumb up 1

    • Ian S. says

      No, I just think that if Batman died in 1985 (or even way before and that was an old comic book) that 25 years later he wouldn’t be very mainstream at all, just like how some people don’t know who the Green Lantern is an stuff. I’m sure you could find some comic book Batman junkies in the AU ;)

      Like: Thumb up 0

  52. says

    This is neither here nor there, but interesting info.

    Just read that James Van Der Beek named his 3 week old son Joshua, ( and it wasn’t to honor his Dawson Creek co-star.)

    Here’s the kicker. Van Der Beek’s 18 month old daughter is named Olivia. Wow !!!

    Like: Thumb up 4

    • Niomi Lianne says

      having to do with the name coincedences, I have a guy named Sam Weiss in my history class. I nearly jumped out of my seat on the first day

      Like: Thumb up 2

    • says

      Now you have got me thinking.
      Are both Lincolns doomed from the get go … Alt Lincoln was almost burned to a crisp over 90% of his body, and survived, only to be assasinated by a sniper.

      Our Lincoln, losing his partner, losing Olivia ( not that he ever had her ), losing his doppelganger, attacked by the porcupine, Peter saving him, …. There is a reason why HE is there. There is more to him than meets the eye.

      Like: Thumb up 2

      • Liz says

        I really hope so, because right now, I don’t see purpose of Lincolns character. I really wonder what card will writers pull on him? Probably some heroic deed to overshadow or mimic Peter’s fate? Why stop now…

        Like: Thumb up 5

        • Ian S. says

          I’ve been thinking that too, that Our Lincoln will sacrifice himself for the greater good and maybe even save our characters :)

          Like: Thumb up 0

          • DeepRunner says

            Please. No. Lincoln is not one of the Big Three. Olivia, yes. Walter, yes. Peter, yes. Lincoln, no. Not that he should not, but he is not Tom Grace.

            Why not Broyles or Astrid do something like that? At least, it would not seem like a ploy.

            Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8

  53. Scully8 says

    I rewatched the episode and noticed something.

    I know people are saying that a Lincoln Altlivia romantic relationship is in the offing, which is probably correct, but the look shared by the two in the final scene lacked that type of vibe. I don’t mean they don’t have chemistry because I think they do, however Lincoln actually gave a more supportive, I’m your friend look, than the freakin’ goo goo he gave to Olivia from the first damn episode he was introduced. As most folks are saying, I hope they don’t rush in to anything with these two. I would like to see a true relationship develop before another romance and this is coming from a proud Shipper. Just sayin . . .

    Like: Thumb up 3

    • Surun Tunne says

      If the writers are really going for it, I think it’s not going to happen in season 4.
      5 episodes left is not enough to build it up believably.
      mabybe a strong friendship but not a relationship.

      Like: Thumb up 1

      • JM says

        I think they will try to do it within the remaining 5 episodes, just because it is the opposite of what I think they will do. I didnt think they would make fauxlivia pregnant andi didnt think they would promote a lincoln/olivia romance. Put nothing past them in terms of “romantic” relationships.

        Like: Thumb up 3

        • Surun Tunne says

          I think fauxlivia needs to get over the loss of “her” lincoln first before she can even think about a relationship with tyrone

          Like: Thumb up 1

          • Red Balloon says

            Just to be clear on “her” Red Lincoln…They never were in love, at least not Altivia. He was her best friend; he was in love with her in season 3, but this season, I don’t think he was anymore, it wasn’t shown that way. I think she will mourn her best friend but at the same time, Lincoln will have his opportunity. Not that I want them to pursuit it the way they did with Liv and Pete (please don’t because there’s no time and it’s evident that they couldn’t handle their romance well enough), but I would like them to bound further, because their dialogue is fluid, deep and funny at the same time.

            I love Olivia and Peter as couple, but they got damaged by the poor romancing dialogue they had when they exposed them to conflict. At least with these two, there’s a chance they do it right from the start. Just my opinion.

            Like: Thumb up 1

            • Surun Tunne says

              I know they weren’t in love…
              but it’s still going to be hard for fauxlivia to get over it…

              Like: Thumb up 1

    • Cortexiphan Kid says

      What a shame Captain Lee died- he and Our Lincoln were going along quite well, maybe Our Lincoln would let Olivia’s alone.

      Like: Thumb up 0

  54. Cortexiphan Kid says

    No Batman, well I can understand that, what I’m wondering is if they have Spiderman Over There!
    If they do, I assume Mantis doesn’t like him very much.

    Like: Thumb up 0

  55. Cortexiphan Kid says

    Ok, some observations on The Other Side:
    They still have USSR?!
    Did the cold ever even occured?!
    They have moving images on newspaper like in Harry Potter (but I assume it’s not because of the magic)!!!

    Like: Thumb up 0

  56. Dylan says

    It was okay. There was nothing worth raving about.

    However, I did appreciate some more questions of mine being answer. Who knows, maybe they’ll answer them all and make me a happy chap by the end of the season.

    We’ll see.

    Like: Thumb up 0

  57. Drenami says

    OK, I just thought of this and didn’t know where to put it so here goes my newest ‘what if spoiler’
    What if its all backwards and the future that the Observers come from stems not from Peter:Olivia:Henry but rather from Altliv:Lincoln. try to stay with me for a moment.. What if , in the natural state of everything, all versions of Liv are destined to be with all versions of Lincoln. (adds some extra context to the birth scene, but I digress) The REASON that PETER is soooo important to the Observers is that he steals the heart of this Cortexiphan Olivia leaving no room for ‘her lincoln’(i use this term loosely in this instance) This opens the stage (along with everyone’s favorite lincolns death) for a mixed~world pairing of linc/liv. Maybe THEIR child is the important one, not Our Olivia and Peter’s baby . The cross~world baby was always meant to be Altlivias ..That’s why she was the ‘Wrong Olivia’ for Peter to be with – Who knows.
    just a thought ;)

    Like: Thumb up 0

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