FRINGE: 4.13 A Better Human Being

abhb6

As the Fringe team investigates a mentally ill patient who appears to be connected to a series of murders, frightening clues and connections are uncovered that lead Olivia to some shocking revelations.

Fringe 4.13 "A Better Human Being" Rating

View Results

Loading ... Loading ...

Comments

    • Walternate says

      That’s what I’m thinking too. It hit me when Nina was showing Linc and Walter the Cortexiphan vials. Nina looked genuinely surprised.

      Like: Thumb up 6

      • Ben says

        So if I follow your thinking – which is basically my thinking too – the “good” Nina is with Walter and Linc at Massive Dynamic, puzzling over what happened to the Cortexiphan. The “bad” Nina is pretending to be Olivia’s fellow captive, but she’s really Jonesy’s confederate. It’s a fascinating tangled web, that’s for sure.

        Like: Thumb up 6

        • jophan says

          My guess is there is no “good” Nina. AmberBlue Nina is in the cell with Olivia to push her into being activated (“love and fear”), while either AmberRed Nina or a shapeshifter based on her holds the fort at MD.

          I do think Nina is convinced of her own righteousness, even as DRJ is, so “bad” doesn’t necessarily apply. Willing to make “difficult” decisions, as Walternate would put it.

          Like: Thumb up 2

    • Rick Terry says

      You’d think right? I am no help, Three and a half years watching this show multiple times, and I got nothing…for the first time I am speechless!

      Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 12

      • Walternate says

        Agreed. And to add on to what I posted above, that may be that Nina wanted to look surprised – if that is indeed Alternate Nina. I think maybe that Alt-Nina has been running the whole thing with Jones while real Nina has been kept away somewhere.

        Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 10

    • Maris says

      Oh my, I had forgotten about that!!!!!But it is the alt-Nina, which one is our Nina??? My head don’t stop spinning!!!!!!!!!!

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8

      • lizw65 says

        I’m beginning to think we’ve been seeing Alt-Nina all season; that she is the one dosing Olivia and in collusion with Jones. It could be the real reason why the prosthetic arm hasn’t been in evidence this season, rather than a continuity error or timeline change.

        Like: Thumb up 6

        • Rae` says

          I was always under the impression that because Walter and Peter fell right through the ice instantaneously, Nina never dived through the portal and ergo, lost her arm….I don’t know, I could be wrong, but it would make sense if something like that were to be true.

          Like: Thumb up 0

          • jophan says

            In the Blueverse, Nina lost her arm trying to prevent Walter from goint to the Redverse. It wasn’t on his return. And we know she did something of the sort this time because Walter blamed her for breaking the container of the cure.

            Like: Thumb up 2

    • FringeFriday says

      I am just so puzzled, can’t find a solution….

      was Alt- Nina drugging our Olivia with the Cortexiphan because Walternate knew about our Nina being a shapeshifter and THEN she was kept prisoner? I don’t think the shapeshifter Nina drugged Olivia because of her look about the C vials being replaced…

      Like: Thumb up 0

  1. Rick Terry says

    So let me get this straight…Are Olivia and Nina shapeshifters? Or is this the much anticipated Alter-Nina we’ve never met, with a Shapeshifter Olivia? Or is this Real Olivia somehow pulled into this timeline, and replacing Amber Olivia? I am totally confused now and really cannot wait until next Friday!

    Help anyone!!!

    Like: Thumb up 6

    • Walternate says

      No, I don’t think Liv and Nina are shapeshifters. My theory is that it was the original timeline all along, and when Peter came back everything that was “unwritten” began to bleed back through when Peter popped up out of Reiden Lake. Yes, I think the Alt-Nina is the one we’ve been seeing all season long. She’s the one that has been working with Jones.

      Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 32

      • Maris says

        Make sense that the Nina that we see now is the Alt-Nina… And about Olivia, I think that this is our Olivia, just with her memory back!I need to see it again, and again!!!!

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9

        • lost_stef says

          Yeah walternate that makes the most sense. We have been seing Al-Nina all season long and she has captured Nina to get her out of the way so she can dose Olivia so her plan with Jones can go ahead! EVIL EVIL NINA

          Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 10

  2. Pwnsauce says

    Like everyone else, I’m very confused. I do think Nina was faking at the end and her being ‘captured’ was all a sham to make Olivia think they’re both in danger.

    Interesting note – the glyph spelled ‘HENRY’. Not sure what effect this has on Henry existing and that relationship with the timelines. Hopefully all of these mysteries will start coming together next episode. They had September labeled as Mr. X when Peter was going into his mind. Shout-out to Man X?

    Like: Thumb up 4

  3. Hannah says

    The glyph was Henry! How the heck are they gonna tie that in. I’ve been pretty good a guessing what goes on, putting things together, but tonight I’m coming up empty. That was a perfect hour of television. A week is too long to wait! Please dear god in heaven above put the though in the minds of these fox dudes and renew the show for a 5th season. It’s such a beautiful, tragically under appreciated show. I know I rambled. I can’t help but ramble, in my mind blown state. Dang you show for being sooooo good. I’m watching you again right now. Goodnight fringe friends.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 18

  4. Mcfly says

    Did the Nina at Massive Dynamic have both hands ? Did she not lose one in this timeline or am I imagining things lol ?

    Like: Thumb up 1

  5. Darth Kate says

    was anyone else extremely annoyed by the case of this episode? it was completely irrelevant and obstructed the plot. AND i swear to god, if they split peter and olivia up ever again and recycle that B.S. romance plot i will be done with the show. They’re together again. keep it that way and MOVE ON WITH THE PLOT NOW.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 13

      • willg says

        I thought the case was alright. I believe this was a transition episode to get to next weeks craziness. If you want the plot to move along I don’t think we can do any better than the promo for next week. I love this show!

        Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 13

    • Sasha says

      I liked the case, because it was just symbolizing what Olivia was going through, with “someone else’s” thoughts going in her mind. However, in the end it’s her former memories coming in, while the hive was connecting with one another.
      My only complaint was how the case was closed. They’re all still out there, but I feel like Sean was supposed to show that the connection ended between them with Dr. Frank dead?

      Like: Thumb up 6

    • Geoff says

      The cases are always doing one of two things: either a metaphor for what’s going on with one or more of the characters (Electric Sheep as an example) or a concept setup for the future (amber bus incident in season 1).

      Like: Thumb up 3

  6. Schwakamole says

    Holy Schwakamole, Batman! That was fun! Gotta think about it more. I thought Petah would take longer to trust this Olivia. Which one is Alt-Nina? Why was the episode named Henry? Can’t wait to see the light box again, Mr. X, Observers…

    Fun!

    Like: Thumb up 6

      • Maris says

        In the end Peter is going to be an expert in enter the people mind!!!!And it seems that Jones is going to play the games of light with Olivia again!!!!

        Like: Thumb up 6

          • Schoko says

            As much as I agree with you, it makes more sense that the Henry referred to is Baby Henry. In the Answers video, we see Altlivia holding Henry. It seems they really want us to know that Baby Henry is coming back. What will that mean? I’m interested to find out, I just hope that Baby Henry won’t be some bad plot-device/contrivance. I think much of the fanbase does not want Baby Henry in the picture, but it will be interesting to see what (if any) larger role the baby plays. I hope it’s worth it, because as of right now, I’m not keen on that baby

            Like: Thumb up 4

  7. hsa says

    This is the third 10 for me (others were Peter and Subhect 13). I will be examining this ep. for days. Something for everyone. Peter and Olivia were so believable, and the back and forth between them was great acting. Did anyone notice all the green in the scene st the gas station? Astrid certainly got some screen time, and she too seemed like the old timetine Astrid-very kind and empathetic. “I’ve got to pee in the same league as “Vagenda.” I cannot help on the alt Nina and who is and who is not a shapeshifter question-just as confused as everyone else. So many philosophical questions hanging. I think there is something to the notion that cogito ergo sum should be expanded to include memores as part of “I think”—after all thoughts become memories. I am verklempt now and must regruop. Next week looks like it could be another 10 or even an 11.. Thank you writers-you are wonderful!

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 16

    • Mike says

      I also gave it a 10 and i agree an amazing episode that also benefits from the great acting. The scenes between Olivia and Peter were pure joy, the acting was so subtle by both of them. Well done Anna and Joshua well done.

      Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 40

      • corazondeazul says

        I also loved the scenes between Olivia and Peter, and the twist at the end was lovely. But come on, guys, the case of the week was one of the worst we’ve had all season.

        Like: Thumb up 6

    • DeepRunner says

      I picked-up on the green when Peter was waiting in the car for Olivia. The thought I had at that moment was, Green is the color that comes when you blend Blue and Yellow (or Amber).

      Like: Thumb up 3

  8. Pam says

    There should be something really significant about the glyphs spelling henry now. Does it mean we are reverting back to the old timeline? Or was the old timeline itself all of olivia’s making? I think giving the machine the Peter interface is bringing back patches of the original timeline!

    Like: Thumb up 4

  9. KLA says

    HOLY SMOKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What in the world just happened. I am spinning in circles. So much so that even having Lincoln in this episode did not bother me. I am speechless right now. Was that Alt-Nina all along, or is she a shapeshifter? Is Alt-Broyles part of the gang? Somehome HHHEEELLPPP.

    Writers- I love you. Well done.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 24

  10. KLA says

    Wait a minute– so when Olivia went to the bathroom what happened??? There is no way that someone just grabbed her, as that bathroom would have been destroyed with her fighting. So, was she ever really with peter in that car or in the store??, or was Peter dreaming?? It looked strange when Peter came out if the store, like no sounds or traffic. Odd.

    Was I the only one screaming for Olivia to stay in the car?

    Well, looks like we will get an answer re Mr X next week.

    Like: Thumb up 5

    • Schoko says

      That struck me as odd, too. No signs of struggle, and when the clerk said he didn’t see anyone, my first thought was: What? Was she really there?

      Like: Thumb up 0

  11. Maris says

    By now, I really don’t know what to think…Is it the old timeline, and this new timeline, in somehow colliding, because of the Peter reappeared? I just failing in see how the baby can be back, but again they did brought same people from the grave…
    The Nina plot is a giant knot in my brain, and for the first time I don’t now what to think about her, I always suspected of Nina…She is a puzzle!
    If this is supposed to migrate for our original timeline we going to have people with double memory, and people alive again, like we are seeing… My thoughts are not consistents, for more that I try, my head just spinning in the same place!!!

    Like: Thumb up 4

  12. Dadzboyz says

    THEY GAVE US A HUGE CLUE!
    When “Nina” used the biometric security she took off her gloves. You could see both of her hands….skin and all. Nina lost her arm when Walter went over to save Peter. The timeline breaks when he comes back. Blue universe Nina still has the artificial arm, which does not have skin, hence the gloves.
    Now, there are two possibilities.
    1. The Olivia that has both hands is Red universe Nina who never lost her arm. The problem with this is that Bell on the Red side died and never created Massive Dynamic and would have never hired Nina so finding Red Nina would have been a challenge, then they would have to get her up to speed on the multi-verse concept, etc. Not an impossible challenge.
    2. Nina’s DNA, which if cloned would create two real arms, was used to create a shapeshifter. More likely, I think.

    The next questions are
    - Did Jones or whomever the ultimate big baddy is know that they could merge the Olivia from two timeliness?
    - Why did they do it?
    - Then, of course, the whole observer thing.

    Thought: Jones and ZFT are battling the Observers through time. The Observers are, or are connected to the first people. Maybe created by Walter in the future to battle the shapeshifter of the ZFT…

    Like: Thumb up 5

    • Pwnsauce says

      So I went back and investigated the Nina hand debacle, and unfortunately everything checks out. Her right hand/arm was the prosthetic one as seen in the Pilot, also which got stuck in Walter’s Portal. In last night’s episode, Nina scanned her left hand, not her right. In the Pilot she also had a skin-looking fake rubber cover over her prosthetic arm, so I don’t think anything is different there.

      I guess we still don’t know 100% whether she has the prosthetic arm in this timeline, but I think it’s pretty safe to assume she does.

      Like: Thumb up 3

      • Dadzboyz says

        DadzBoyz
        Yes. She scanned her left hand but there was a brief glimpse of her holding her left hand down on the scanner with her unloved right hand on her left forearm. I’ll have to offer back and check but I thought the right hand was skinless, hence the glove.

        Like: Thumb up 0

    • hsa says

      I have had a good night’s sleep and can think more clearly. You must be right–Nina is a shapeshofter. I recall in an earlier season 4 episode that she wore gloves on both hands-one more piece of support for the shapeshifter threory. The imprisoned Nina is either the original Nina in this timeline or the the shapeshifter Nina. Perhaps Jones could not bear killing the real Nina but needed a minion. l mentioned the green color in the gas sation scene. Could it be that this is a geen universe??? Blue and yellow make green and would explain the return of the old timeline characteristics.

      Like: Thumb up 1

      • Liz says

        I think that she’s alt Nina. Nina from the alternate universe never tryed to stop Walter so she never loose her arm. The Nina from the new timeline tryed to stop Walter, because he blamed her for alt Peter’s death. So the Nina that we saw with Walter and Lincoln are alternate Nina (a sahpeshifter doesn’t let people alive behind).

        Like: Thumb up 1

  13. Maris says

    I don’t know if I was the only one who thought that Jones in the promo when he talks to Olivia, it’s like he knows her … just a thought!

    Like: Thumb up 2

  14. JM says

    Before i say how mind blowingly amazing this episode is i have a few questions:
    1) have they changed the writers who do P/O? cause it wasnt that good before lol
    2) is this nina gonna be from old timeline too!? (i have a sneaky suspicion yes

    OK ill process my thoughts later….amazing REWATCH, REWATCH!

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 15

    • Lalla says

      I sooo agree on that! Never really shipped them and always found their scenes a bit forced but this is good. REALLY GOOD! *_*

      Like: Thumb up 1

  15. DeepRunner says

    OK, let me get this out of the way, first…

    So as they were sitting in the car, I was pulling for the romantic connection that Peter had obviously been fighting. Olivia did a call-back a couple of times to the end of Lysergic Acide Diethylamide, when she told Peter she was not afraid. And it happened. It was cool that he talked about being concerned having betrayed Olivia before, which was something pretty cool. But then in a coda back to Marionette, he said looking at her, he knew it was her. Maybe, maybe happily ever after will happen. That was a good scene, and it was well-acted and well-done. And it will make it hard for Peter to return to the Blue Universe, if he is not there already.

    OK, on to other stuff. So, it appears Nina has been replaced by a shapeshifter (which is something I had mentioned previously as a possibility), or maybe her doppelganger in the AltWorld. DRJ looks like he is on deck for the next eppy based on the tease for next week.

    And the Observer, in the same tease, told Peter that Olivia needed him. Maybe this is why September did not erase Peter, because he could see what would happen if he did. Maybe this is why “the boy is important.”

    Walter…Walter, Walter, Walter. Hard guy to figure out in this timeline. One moment (as in Welcome to Westfield), it is obvious he likes Peter. Next moment (like this episode) he is scolding Peter, blaming him for what is happening to Olivia. I suspect Walter will become accepting.

    Lincoln…The breaking bad with Nina was good, even if it did seem a little forced. They need to get him a partner, now that (for now) Peter and Olivia are back together.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 12

    • JM says

      Nah even though i didnt mind lincoln much in this episode, hes still useless, and seth gabels hand and eye movements in tandem are distrubing, its like hes tried to copy anna torvs acting style but has mixed it with his own and ended up with some kind of monster.

      Like: Thumb up 7

  16. Coco says

    Karen Elson – “Ghost Who Walks”…lyrics could be some kind of foreshadowing how Olivia may (gulp!) die? Oh, gee I hope not! Poor Peter can’t seem to catch a break -____-

    Like: Thumb up 4

  17. Anita says

    Man I am so happy to see that everyone enjoyed this episode as much as I did. This season it seems the episodes I liked no one did and vice versa. :) Glad to see that there’s a unanimous love for A Better Human Being!! :D

    Like: Thumb up 6

  18. number six says

    Henry? I really, really, REALLY hope they mean the taxi driver!

    So we’ve been seeing AltNina all along? It was shocking to see our Nina (if it’s not a trick) so disheveled… That hair! What has Jones done to her?

    There was a parallel with LSD, when Peter saved Olivia from being run over. Mr. X is probably next!

    Like: Thumb up 5

  19. rosimili says

    This is what I think:

    1. Jones dosed Olivia to pass her to red universe.
    2. Nina in amber universe is a shapeshifter from Alt-Nina. That’s why she has two complete hands.
    3. Nina in captivity is amber universe Nina, kept alive to be fetch information out of her.
    4. September is going to assure Peter that this Olivia is in fact his Olivia and that’s the reason Peter is going to risk his life to save Olivia.

    Like: Thumb up 4

  20. mlj102 says

    I suppose I’m in the minority on this one. I liked the episode, but I wasn’t overly blown away or impressed by it. Don’t get me wrong, it certainly had many things going in its favor. But when all is said and done, I didn’t feel this episode was particularly compelling. It didn’t completely come together for me the way my favorite episodes usually do.

    For starters, I thought this episode had too much focus on Peter and Olivia. I don’t mind the two of them as a couple — I even support the relationship — and I agree that it was a necessary component of this episode. But it almost felt like a little bit too much. Just a little bit over the top. A little bit like it was being forced onto us to accommodate the timing of everything else going on. The moments between them were good. They were delivered well and they felt genuine. It just felt like a bit too much for one episode. (Random observation: did anyone else find it ironic how Walter in the original timeline was always playing matchmaker between Peter and Olivia, while Walter in this timeline seemed particularly against them being together, even openly telling Peter not to pursue it? I just found that to be an interesting contrast.)

    I also found the case to be less than satisfying. As has been mentioned by others, it felt like it was just kind of there to be there. Like it was an afterthought. A case simply because they needed a case. And I liked the concept behind it. It certainly had potential. But it felt like with everything else going on, they weren’t able to fully develop the case. The resolution felt very rushed: they were randomly attacked at the storage shed and apprehended two of the “killer bees,” they killed their “father,” and Shawn stopped being able to hear them. That’s it. It just felt a bit sloppy and unfinished and like it didn’t flow well, jumping back and forth between the case and the issue with Olivia.

    And I suppose that’s maybe my biggest issue with this episode: they were trying to do too much in a short time. Too much development between Peter and Olivia. Too many stories going on at the same time. Too many developments. And with so much, it was hard to follow everything, it was hard to be fully invested in everything, and it was hard to properly explore and develop everything that was happening.

    And, finally, one little personal frustration: I had really set myself on the idea of Nina being the bad person. And when I say Nina, I mean the Nina that Olivia knows and trusts and cares for. I thought it would make a very compelling development for Olivia to discover that her surrogate mother had actually betrayed her. So the development that whoever this Nina is, she’s an imposter Nina, is somewhat disappointing and doesn’t carry the same power behind it as I had been expecting from a “Nina betrayed Olivia” development. However, I will admit that it is still a very good, unexpected twist and they did a really good job carrying that out. I will be very interested to see where they take that in the next episode(s) as we get more information.

    That said, like I mentioned, there were things I really enjoyed about this episode. I was particularly fond of seeing Olivia’s returning memories and I thought it was very effective the way they incorporated that throughout the episode. It was neat the way similar scenarios and familiar places triggered certain memories. And I liked the references to various past episodes. Even just casual mentions of other episodes, such as the Pilot or 6B, makes that episode become that much more significant to me. I love when they do things to connect the episodes together.

    I also liked that Nina was finally confronted and caught (leave it to Walter to actually taste test the “cortexiphan” — anyone else would have simply accepted it as it was.). I am intrigued by the developments in this episode and I’m looking forward to some of that being explained in future episodes (hopefully there will be significant explanations in the next episode before the break).

    I also liked the whole theme of things not being as they seem. Shawn appeared to be crazy and schizophrenic, but the voices he heard were real and he wasn’t crazy, after all. Depending on how things develop, this new timeline Olivia could be returning to/transforming back to original Olivia. The vials at Massive Dynamic appeared to be cortexiphan, but they really were fake. Nina Sharp (most likely the one we’ve seen all season) is not the Nina she appeared to be. I’ve always been fond of the ideas of reality and perception, so this fit right into all that and I found it to be very well done in this episode.

    All things considered, still a good episode, though somewhat disappointing to me and not as good as I had hoped it would be. Next week, however, looks extremely promising!

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 11

    • JM says

      I know what you mean about the case, it just seemed like they had the case for the sake of it, and while it was a good concept, we really didnt need another COTW in a season that has been dominated by them, so im glad it took a backseat.

      Like: Thumb up 3

      • Rae` says

        Honestly, in my mind, whenever someone says there’s a case that seems ‘thrown in there’, it’s a bit realistic. I’m just under the belief, that realistically, these people investigate cases up and down, left and right, and not every single one of them is going to be grandiose in the mythology scheme of things. Sometimes it’s a case as seemingly ‘simple’ for lack of a better word, as this weeks.

        We all know this episode really wanted to progress the P and O relationship and integrate our Olivia into this timeline, so yeah, alot of screentime was given to them. But honestly, all I can say is it’s about damn time we get some raw conversation between the two of these guys like this. This is the stuff that took place behind the scenes at the end of season three, and it’s just nice to see some of it spewing forth now. And not only that, but F#&$ me!, it was well done, too. Josh and Anna were spot on.

        Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 22

    • DeepRunner says

      Yeah, the “case” was certainly ancillary to everything else. And there were aspects of the show that didn’t tie up very nicely. For me, the real questions are:

      * Which Nina is with Olivia at the end: a shapeshifter, a doppelganger, or what? I am looking forward to seeing how that question is answered. And yes, “answers are coming.”

      * I have never gotten into the glyph thing. If the glyph is “Henry,” then is September who baby Henry became? If that’s the case, then Peter really did serve his purpose by fathering Henry. Or is September who Peter becomes further down the timeline?

      * If this really is Olivia, then a WHOLE lot from this timeline needs to be reconfigured (for instance, she never killed her father in the Blue Universe). I hope it is the Olivia people remember, but the writers have said they have seven years worth of material, so I am waiting to see what happens.

      Like: Thumb up 1

  21. Mancha says

    Awesome cliffhanger! I think my head just exploded… Nope still here… But my brain is kinda overloaded though…

    Like: Thumb up 2

  22. Ian S. says

    Great episode! The case of the week was average, but the rest was done very well. The pacing was spot on (especially the scene where Olivia is remembering in all the rooms in Peter’s house). It was a slow moving episode, but in a good way. Like letting chocolate melt in your mouth.

    With that being said, this whole season as a whole as been rather slow paced, a lot like season 1. I like it, but I want things to pick up now, and it seems that everything is in place for super fast paced, mythology heavy last 9 episodes of this season. So far, the pacing of this season as been perfect in my opinion, and is slowly becoming my favourite I think.

    Like: Thumb up 7

  23. hui says

    “Sometimes answers lead to more questions”

    We have already been warned since the first episode of this season. It seems even more mind-blowing things are gonna take place

    Like: Thumb up 3

  24. epoh says

    Ok, that episode was sooo good. I hope the people who were getting frustarted with the writers are starting to see the pay off now. Hopefully the ratings reflect how good this episode was.

    Like: Thumb up 1

  25. Rae` says

    I think Henry is September, I don’t know, I just have a feeling. That being said, I was kinda glad they re-charged the timeline so the lil’ guy wasn’t in it this year. Honest to God, I just didn’t want the P and O relationship to deal with the headache of Peter being a ‘daddy-O’ to a child conceived with an Alternate version of the woman he loves who belongs with the alternate version of said loved woman’s partner.

    But you know, I’m optimistic about how it’s all going to go down. I love this show, and at the end of the day, even when I’m frustrated by it, it gives me episodes like these last two and satisfies the hell out of my ‘entertain me’ impulse. These next episodes are going to be great. I can feel it.

    Like: Thumb up 5

  26. Rae` says

    Or you know, the last eppy the glyph was Olive and this time it was Henry, so maybe these are the firstborn of the Bishop tribe, in some timeline somewhere…;)

    Like: Thumb up 2

  27. Rae` says

    Though there were alot of good ones, my favorite scene by far is the ‘Bee’ one. It’s as though Walter is the angry, disapproving daddy who just caught Peter and Olivia in a questionable position in her room during ‘study’ hour. I could feel the angry tension he had toward both characters. Olivia, for feeding into her visions and therefore ‘wanting’ Peter, and Peter for slowly giving into his inner desires of wanting this to be ‘his’ Olivia, and ergo, testing the theory in the office. To me, I felt like I was watching a ‘kitchen table’ scene after a concerned parent is clearly intent on keeping apart his child and the ‘bad news’ kid across the street. lmao.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 20

    • mrflamethunder says

      I love that scene too!!
      Also, when Walter interrupted them holding hands.
      LOL. It’s just too awesome.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9

    • NinFringie says

      Totally agree with you. This episode was clearly about Peter and Olivia; i believe that it was written not to bring in more fans, but to connect and satisfy those who are watching since season 1. The case was just there to give us perspective, set the tone of what appeared to be happening to Olivia. But in the end, “A Better Human Being” isn’t about the IF boys, it was about the “new” and improved Olivia resurfacing, remembering EVERYTHING: a combo of the strong yet guarded Olivia from the timeline with Peter, and the Olivia who’s strong but more emotionally open from the timeline without Peter. “A Better Human Being” can also stand for Peter – being BETTER at knowing HIS Olivia now more than ever. So as a fan, i truly enjoyed this episode, i appreciate all the callbacks from Marionette, 6B, etc. Those little details make everything believable as Peter and Olivia’s story progresses. It was written & handled very well. The constant push and pull between the two throughout the episode was just REAL and.. yeah, sweet. Fringe is really KING of effective subtle acting! And Walter was great too! That scene about the bee is funny – he was really like an overprotective dad getting in the middle of two kids in love.

      The episode was great beyond words. Next week, hello Henry!

      Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 11

  28. Seahorse says

    I’m glad to see I’m not the only one with a knot in the brain after that ride! What a great, mind-boggling, awesome, amazing, lovable and crazy episode- That’s Fringe how I love it and missed it so much and so often this season. There are so many questions in my head right now….
    Can’t wait for next week, the promo looks too good. Peter in September’s mind? Holy cow…please let it be next Friday already!!

    I’m off to watch the episode again…and then again…

    Like: Thumb up 6

  29. bdp says

    OH MAN! What an episode. So many questions and possibilities moving forward now. So glad to have OUR Olivia back and for Peter to see that it was her (I’m of the group holding the opinion that this is in fact our Olivia and our timeline, just Olivia is the only one to come around to that knowledge at this point, probably because of the cortexiphan). I cannot wait for next week’s episode and I while I’m expecting some awesome answers I think I may now have even MORE questions than I’ve ever had in the history of Fringe!

    Like: Thumb up 3

  30. mazius says

    Awesomeness at its finest.. This one was specially intriguing and smooth. I hope Walter will realize soon that Peter has nothing to do with all that pitfall..

    Like: Thumb up 0

  31. mazius says

    I think what bdp is saying is wrong because Olivia is not having Peter´s thoughts and for example at the end of season 3 an observer clearly says: “they dont remember Peter”

    Like: Thumb up 1

  32. nora says

    Just a few thoughts.
    I have to admit that so far I couldn’t really concentrate on anything but P & O. Their scenes were SOOO much better written AND acted, than the previous seasons, not to mention the chemistry between the two – I was simply stunned by them. Their exchanges were subtle and wonderful. I also „loved” the glares between Walter and Peter – on one hand it’s hard to see them that way, but on the other hand… the tension and the force of their glaces… it was amazing.
    As for Baby Henry – I don’t think it’s about his return (not yet?), more about Peter’s knowlege of him. It’s just a guess, but when Olivia entered John Scott’s mind, there were consequences… Memory sharing – September knows ***a lot of things*** – about Henry, too, so… he could even unintentionally give such information to Peter.

    Oh, and solving the case – I think it was hilarious. It took Peter and Olivia to take down the two kids – what? 10 seconds? Quickest fight scene and case solution ever… „Poor” killer brats couldn’t stand a chance… I loved it.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 13

  33. Roneo says

    Right now my mind is boiling. I don’t know what will happen. But I’ve got the impression that Olivia is not “remembering” but “rewriting” the old time line, at least for herself (we still have to see what happen to the rest of the universes), undoing what observers did. So she’s not only recovering memories: she’s becoming (or she has already done) the old good Olivia.

    Like: Thumb up 0

  34. mrflamethunder says

    Despite the fact that the case of the week was not solved properly (who cares anyway?), I’m so loving this episode!!!
    Peter and Olivia, Peter and Walter, Walter and Nina….
    Man….mind-blowing!!!
    Round up to 10/10.

    Like: Thumb up 4

  35. mazius says

    Maybe the machine could “rewrite” everyone´s memories thanks to the time paradox that Walter pointed at the end of third season, after realizing that he sent the machine parts to the past and that he could trick the time (i dont remember it exactly but he said something like everything was happening all the time). It would be coherent to say that all in this “rewritten” universe really happened or in other words, that there isnt a fake timeline and a real one, both are the same timeline.

    Like: Thumb up 1

  36. lost_stef says

    OMG!!!!! OMG!!! OMG!!!! Another great episode! OMG!! I am speechless just like the rest of you. Personally this episode went to fast when it cut out at the end I was the WTF happened to my TV. Amazing cliff-hanger, I cannot wait until next week. I am so spewing that we all have to wait a whole week to watch what seems like is going to be another EPIC episode!

    Now the captured Nina has to be Alt-Nina or Shapeshifter? But who knows all so confusing.

    Loved seeing Olivia and Peter’s interactions. Especially loved the petrol station scene with Peter acknowledging that he has made the same mistake before, but so sweet that he knows it is her when he looks into her eyes, awwww give me some more sweet loving scenes!!

    Had to give this episode 10/10 amazing follow up from last week!

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 16

    • lost_stef says

      or is the captured Nina our Nina and the one with Lincoln and Walter the shapeshifter/alt-nina? And alt-nina has been dosing Olivia this whole time and has kept our Nina out of the way! all too confusing i am still trying to process everything lol. I shall be re-watching this again when i get up in the morning!!!

      Like: Thumb up 7

      • Maris says

        It’s good to see that Peter remember the big mistake that he commited , and see that he is able to recognize her just for her eyes is a relief to me.!!!! XD

        Like: Thumb up 2

      • shidey17 says

        This is all so confusing. For some reason, I’ve always felt that Nina was up to something (she never seemed forthcoming enough with information) but I always felt that it was for the greater good in the end. I want Nina to be a good-guy, and not just in the way that she truly feels justified in her reasons, a la DRJ. And I just want poor Olivia to be happy, get to have a boyfriend and a mom.

        I thought I had some of this season’s mysteries worked out, but that last episode threw me for a total loop.

        Like: Thumb up 1

  37. MISSNETT says

    So I think I’m more confused then ever before. I have so many questions now. And theories.
    What was this case about? They always tie in somehow with the mythology but I don’t see it this time. Is the hive supposed to represent the Observers? Or our people?
    As much as I want “our” Olivia back I’ve always had a problem with how they would do it. If the timelines merge that just brings up so many questions about what would remain of both. In one Olivia killed her stepfather, in the other she only wounded him. What would become reality. That’s just an example. But yet I did want this to be our timeline somehow. Otherwise it kind of made this whole season so far pointless.
    The Mr. X seen on the EEG in the promo. Does that mean that Peter is or will be an Observer. I never wanted that to happen no matter how much it was joked about. I guess I always hoped it was in joking! That would also mean he will kill Olivia. What? And that in turn questions their relationship. As much as I was against them getting together so soon in the story, I’m invested in it now. They belong together and I guess I’m looking for my happy ever after for the end of the story.
    I kept thinking through the episode that maybe Walter was beginning to remember also but didn’t want to admit it yet. Maybe fear that people would question his sanity again. Seemed to be a fear of his all season. Or was he just jealous of Peter?
    I don’t think either Nina is a shapeshifter. I think we are finally seeing both. Just confused as to which is which.
    I loved all the parallels to other episodes. The hospital and the storage unit. A great way to see Olivia’s memories play out.
    Ok so I have more but I’ve got to get to work. Aww the questions!!! This was a really great episode, confusing but great. Can’t wait until next week!

    Like: Thumb up 5

    • Maris says

      It was exactly what I was thinking about the timeline, what will became really and waht is going to desappear!!
      Peter being the Mr. X, I just don’t know what to think, because to be honest, Mr. X always looks like Peter to me, a version Dark of Peter!
      And about Walter, I seems to me that, like you said, that maybe he start to remember of Peter too, but his fear about his sanity.
      It’s Friday already?

      Like: Thumb up 0

    • nora says

      About the case – and how it relates to the bigger picture. Maybe it’s a far fetched idea, but I noticed a parallel between Walter and Mr. Frank – genetic manupulation, playing god, HUBRIS – just take a look at Peter’s face when he asked him that question: he sure knows something about the consequences of such an act. Dr. Frank wanted to make better human beings, and he altered the process from time to time. In Walter’s (if he’s behind all of this) case: these would be the time loops? And the „better human beings” – the altered people in the timelines? Or the Observers? – Peter and Dr. Frank mentioned that these kids had telepathic abilities, and they protect themselfs violently, and one of them was injured — just like September? Plus we know that something is wrong with Peter’s genes (or is someting special about them). Could he be „related” to the Observers, like Shawn was to the killers?
      Just random thoughts, I could be completely wrong, as it often happens with me with this show…

      Like: Thumb up 2

  38. Drenami says

    While I was intrigued by some of the mythology points and am looking forward to next week, I was VERY disapointed by the case. When Olivia said that they would normally go back to one or the others’ homes after a case was solved I thought “Where the hell was I when they solved this case??? I know I was watching…” I figured that killing the father was what broke the bond, but they didn’t say that and I think it was VERY weakly implied. if at all. What about the other 196 ‘better human beings’??? It just left me a little empty inside which I did not expect at all.

    Like: Thumb up 1

    • Liz says

      there was only 3 or 4 boys killing people, at least that’s what I understood. One was injuried and the others attacked Peter and Olivia, but I think they were send to jail after our heroes kicked their asses. Other subjects seems only listen and now even this bond doesn’t exist anymore because the queen bee is dead.

      Like: Thumb up 0

  39. grace says

    First, I’m looking forward to find out what’s going on with Nina(s?), DRJ and cortexifan.

    I liked that the authors and Anna Torv avoided Olivia overreactions to her memories of Peter timeline. Still I don’t know how they will resolve the problem of Peter existence and his relationship with the other characters in this timeline in a satisfying way.
    I found Peter and Olivia moment in the car a little awkward, like some scenes of season three. However, overall Joshua Jackson and Anna Torv were great again and they (and John Noble) are keeping me tied to this difficult season.

    I didn’t like the case for many reasons.
    It was a distraction from the main plot of Olivia remembering Peter timeline. Astrid had more screen time but she was outside the lab and distant from Walter, Peter and Olivia in a crucial moment.
    The way it discussed genetic recombination. I know it’s science fiction, but sometimes I’m not comfortable with the outlook of the show on science and the poor accuracy of their approach with real scientific issues. Just a matter of details.

    Like: Thumb up 2

    • Rae` says

      I have to be honest here, I think some fans find the Olivia and Peter scenes awkward, simply because we’re not use to seeing them in this, more intimate light, so to speak. The closest we got to something like this was in 6:02 a.m and 6B and out of oh so many episodes of the series, overall, those two episodes didn’t give us enough inner-personal dialogue to see how it was really like for the two of them, together, in private.

      I honestly believe it would have been something close to what we saw here in ABHB. Both of these individuals, before each other, were and still are, seriously flawed in their relationships, and speaking from experience, things can seem awkward at times where you’re trying to learn how to be with someone when it’s never happened to you quite like this before. Peter and Olivia both have a connection with each other they don’t have with anyone else. That’s most probably, going to take getting use to. It’s easy in the sense that you love the person, it’s hard at the same time because you know no matter your obstacles, you’re going to try and fight to be with that person, and that takes courage and a whole hell of alota faith.

      Both characteristics of which, Olivia and Peter had in this episode. He to accept her and she to accept her memories and therefore, him.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9

      • Scully8 says

        “It’s easy in the sense that you love the person, it’s hard at the same time because you know no matter your obstacles, you’re going to try and fight to be with that person, and that takes courage and a whole hell of alota faith.

        Both characteristics of which, Olivia and Peter had in this episode. He to accept her and she to accept her memories and therefore, him.”

        Rae, nicely said . . .

        Like: Thumb up 5

      • grace says

        Roco explains it better than me in his review at seriable.com.
        “The melodrama was a bit too much for me, bringing the show dangerously close to certain Season 3 episodes/storylines. It’s something we probably had to go through, but it felt rather forced and overly gooey.”

        Welcome in Westfield has been an improvement, but this episode is a step back for me.

        Like: Thumb up 0

        • lost_stef says

          personally I really enjoy seeing more intimate scenes between Olivia and Peter. Anna and Josh have so much chemistry that they do a wonderful job portraying to us how much Olivia and Peter love each other. I guess I’m a hopeless romantic

          Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 29

          • NinFringie says

            guilty of that too :) yes, i enjoy the mystery and awesomeness of fringe but what truly draws me in is the connection among the cast – their story and dynamic relationships. even if it’s set against a sci-fi / unbelievable environment, the drama is always of the right amount, & right quality. the lines and the exchange are always well-written.

            Like: Thumb up 1

            • willg says

              Gotta agree with lost_stef and NinFringie. I love science and those aspects about this show, but to me, like Lost, it has always been about the characters, their relationships, and their plights as they navigate through their crazy worlds!

              Like: Thumb up 1

  40. Jane says

    It was one of my favorite episodes ever. I feel badly for fans who fret about the low ratings. If ratings was what the network was using as a measure, the show would have been gone long ago. I will continue to have faith in yet another season. 4×13, what a fantastic show.

    Like: Thumb up 6

  41. Robert Ariadne says

    Well, I think we just found out what the Peterless timeline is, it’s an Inception dream. Rigged by Jones and possibly Nina-nate. They pulled Olivia out; that’s why she disappeared so fast. Everyone is starting to remember elements of the real timeline, but they don’t know it’s a dream. Another plotline questioning the nature of reality…
    But I wonder if Peter is still gone in the awake stage or if everyone has been dreaming since The Day We Died. Probably he’s still gone, seeing as the real Jones died in the season 1 finale.

    Like: Thumb up 0

  42. Rae` says

    I think she ‘crossed over’ so to speak somehow, bamfing to wherever DRJ is because he summoned her somehow or something. I don’t know, but I honestly think she disappeared on behalf of the cortexiphan.

    Like: Thumb up 0

  43. J.P. says

    Yo, Lincoln’s back!!!

    And anyway, this was another top-notch episode. I couldn’t really find any problems with it. While it didn’t have the same “old Fringe vibe” that “Westfield” did, it had a very good “mythalone” structure. There have been many episodes this season that felt like they lacked any real “focus” — too many things going on at once, too many different plot points, and all of them jumbled together made for a disaster. This was not the case. In my opinion, it had the perfect balance of both the mythological and standalone aspects.

    This episode raises many questions, specifically with Nina. From the little we have to go on, plus the promo for next week’s episode, it’s very possible Nina’s just acting like a prisoner to “activate” Olivia, for whatever purposes. And, I’m interested to see what happened with Walter and Lincoln between the time they realized the cortexiphan had been stolen and when Nina was found held hostage with Olivia. Did Nina have them locked away, erase their memories, or… ?

    I’m incredibly excited for next week’s episode. Although, there have been promos that made the episode look incredible, only to have it be a disappointment. “The End Of All Things” looks to be one of those episodes that I’ll either love or hate, and I obviously hope for the former. And while I doubt we will actually get some serious answers regarding the origins of the Observers, and just some juicy hints instead, I can’t wait to find out something more about them.

    Like: Thumb up 2

  44. Dylan says

    I can’t even be bothered discussing this episode. It had its moments, for sure, but it doesn’t need to be discussed.

    I will just say that I am now no longer treating this show as Fringe, but as some other show that I have just started watching. This helps me digest it a lot easier, and actually helps me enjoy it.

    Must say, I’m a little excited for next week. If this is the first season of a new Fringe, then let next week be its ‘Safe’.

    Like: Thumb up 3

  45. Rae` says

    Honestly, I respect the fans who don’t like the ‘romantic relationship’ aspect between P and O, but I honestly believe it’s a realistic angle to assume that an intimate closeness with someone you work with can progress into deeper feelings. Obviously, that’s how love happens to begin with. And yeah, I’ll admit, there are times on T.V shows where I cringe from the overt sap that spews out in the dialogue between two potential ‘lovebirds’, but I have to honestly say that this show, IMO, for being a romance of characters inside a mythological sci-fi plot, doesn’t ever take it ‘too far’ in terms of overall cheese. I have to admit, I did find the skittering between Olivia’s he loves me/he loves me not in season 3 to be a little perturbing, but the episodes following proved to me that it caused her a bit of character progression and growth, which in the end, I appreciated. I found that growth and progression in this episode. This Olivia reminded me of the one from LSD to TDWD. I found the scenes between Peter and Olivia very believable based on everything she overcame by the end of season three. Had she not gotten the ‘fear’ scared out of her in LSD and had we not scene the little snip-it of their ‘go home to each other’s houses, to wake up in bed together’ in 6:02 AM, then you know, honestly, I would be thinking differently about this episode too.

    I think it was well done for the information that we had. Because, let’s be honest, though yeah, okay, maybe a few us found it gooey and sappy, we had to have assumed it was happening anyway, it just wasn’t obvious on screen at the time. And I have to admit, though the times are far and few between because I’m a hopeless romantic, there are times I’d rather assume, too, then see it play out, but I feel like this gave me closure to their relationship in a roundabout way, pointing all the way back to Olivia’s bladder, in 6:02 a.m when (I assume) she got up to pee. Hey, when a girl’s gotta go, she’s gotta go…

    I’m just saying here, it could have been ALOT worse in terms of sap. And it was refreshing too see a confident Olivia this time and not an unraveling, self-tortured one. It really made me respect how much our little girl has grown up. I also liked that Josh played Peter so well, that we could see his struggle written on his face through this whole episode. Had he been all lappy-clappy-happy about it, I’d be writing a different post.

    Again, I think what was meant to be portrayed in this episode, is the growth these characters have experienced through each other, and how it effects them now to deal with the different circumstances that have befallen their relationship. Olivia’s grown in terms of she’s no longer accepting of emotional frailty, the kind that once drove her personal angst mad, and Peter’s grown in terms of realizing that certain mistakes, once made, can become an impossible one-sided fix. Which is why, I believe, we see him looking at her so often in this episode, I counted at least five times before the car scene, where he peered into her peepers. I’d like to think the guilt he carried for the brunt end of season three, made him resolute to be certain this time. I was catching on to this before the Back Bay Boston scene. It was then obviously pointed out in whats most likely going to be dubbed ‘the gas station scene’, and I appreciated that.

    Of course, I mean this post with no disrespect, I’m simply making my opinion known. I’m remiss to admit that I wasn’t for this paring at first, but it’s quite apparent that my mind has been irrevocably changed. And now, I’ll openly admit I’m quite the P and O shipper. They got to me….I blame Gene…just cause. Bessy needs a shout-out, too. ;)

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 17

    • Dylan says

      I couldn’t stand the post-Marionette writing of the relationship, this being a prime example:

      (from ‘Os’)

      OLIVIA: Hey.

      PETER: Hey. Thanks for meeting me.

      OLIVIA: Is this why you asked me to meet you across campus and not at the lab– so that we could make out in front of college kids and not your dad?

      PETER: No. Not exactly…

      Ugh. Making it even worse was the absence of any reference to John Scott; Olivia’s first and great love (she went so far as to agreeing to marry him), and the depiction of Olivia as some teenage girl in her very first romantic relationship instead of an mature adult, post-John Scott.

      Like: Thumb up 6

      • J.P. says

        “Ugh. Making it even worse was the absence of any reference to John Scott; Olivia’s first and great love (she went so far as to agreeing to marry him), and the depiction of Olivia as some teenage girl in her very first romantic relationship instead of an mature adult, post-John Scott.”

        YES, thank you, I’ve had the same issue for such a long time, but have never been able to justly sum it up. If Olivia was really so noble and did actually care as much about John Scott as she acted like, then she would’ve handled the situation much more maturely. I always wanted even a few lines of dialogue (in the ORIGINAL timeline) paying justice to Olivia and John’s old relationship. If one looks at the material between Olivia and John from season one, she acts maturely and very “old fashioned” — with Peter, “the man who knows her better than anyone”, she acts like an excited teenager… It never made any sense to me.

        Like: Thumb up 3

        • says

          Yes, there are major differences between the two relationships. But, might it be because of the age differences? I think John was much older than Olivia while Peter is the same age as her. So, maybe she acts more youthful around Peter since they’re the same age?? It’s probably not the case, but I’m just throwing an idea out there.

          Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 25

          • willg says

            I have never had an issue with it. Most of Olivia and John Scott scenes we have seen them in were on the job stuff (with the exception of the intro scene with them in bed). We only have the pilot of them together with Scott alive.Even when they were in bed they seemed kind of playful. So I don’t seem a problem.

            Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 28

            • 134sc says

              I don’t have a problem with it. The way I think writers view the pilot of a their TV show is that they take what they want from it and ignore what they don’t want. Cleary they looked at the John Scott/Olivia relationship, and decided it took away from the Peter/Olivia relationship. so they ignored it. I mean Peter even brought up John in this episode and it was treated as if he was just an old partner.

              As a viewer I don’t mind if writers pick and choose from their pilot, because things change so much over the course of a series.

              O, and I am new here. Been a Fringe fan from the start, and because this episode was so freakin good, I had to find a fansite to talk about it…so here I am. Looking forward to the rest of the season, and next episode looks amazing.

              Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 30

              • Dylan says

                Which would be fine if it was just from the pilot episode, but the John Scott/Olivia Dunham element exists all the way up until the end of the thirteenth episode of season 1.

                Like: Thumb up 1

            • Dylan says

              Their interactions in Fringe didn’t rely on John Scott being alive, so they had a lot more scenes together than you have mentioned (or rather have used to support your argument), and her playfulness in the very first scene is not quite on the same level as what J.P. is discussing, where Olivia is pretty much reduced to a teenage girl.

              Considering Olivia’s dialogue with John (even in the pilot when they’re technically “on the job”), her behavior with him whenever they were alone (whether in the pilot episode or in Olivia’s mind), and the arc itself (Olivia’s experience of such a relationship, and their “marriage”); the Peter/Olivia relationship and behaviour involved just doesn’t compliment the John/Olivia relationship, and certainly makes the series feel fractured.

              Like: Thumb up 2

          • Dylan says

            Love is love. It’s discriminant to think that it’s different given the age of those involved.

            That’s like adding race, religion, sex, or nationality, into it.

            Small changes, maybe – given this is a different person. But the changes went beyond any reasonable grounds, she was entirely different – even against her past behaviour during their close romantic-encounters.

            Like: Thumb up 2

        • JM says

          Tbh after olivia said goodbye to john scott in the tank (1.13?) it was like he had never existed (the writers are good at doing that. lol), and i thought my theory was kind of confirmed in 4.01 when olivia was talking to lincoln and she referred to him as “my partner” instead of his name, i just thought they were never ever gonna mention him again.

          Secondly, i didnt like olivia and johns relationship and i didnt like olivia and peters in season 3, i couldnt even watch it in season 3 properly, although i respected that they were atleast trying to earn their relationship, but well they…didnt.

          But i have to say its been much more believable in season 4, mainly because they are both acting like they are in an adult relationship unlike in season 3 (which you have evidenced dylan). For example, them having a night where they eat damianos and watch cheesy horror films is easier to believe and watch (atleast for me) then for example the “do you think about her?” scene. cringe!

          Finally, i would take 100 cringeworthy peter and olivia scenes instead of more olivia and lincoln scenes, they actually managed to make me never want to watch an episode of fringe again, i can even rewatch snakehead but …..not walllflower ….ever…again.

          Like: Thumb up 7

            • Dylan says

              lol I think he’s finally just come to terms with the fact that the writers aren’t letting this relationship-thing go.

              It was quite entertaining how vocal he was initially about his disagreement with the writers over the Olivia/Peter relationship after ‘Over There Part 2′.

              Like: Thumb up 2

          • Dylan says

            I didn’t mind Olivia and John’s relationship too much because, unlike Olivia and Peter’s, it wasn’t shoved in your face all of the time – there was more to the scenes involving them than just their relationship, and i find that shows write love as a past experience better than love in present (eg. John/Olivia being established from the start rather than seeing Olivia/Peter – which just felt contrived).

            But Lincoln… I think I’d rather watch Dawson’s Creek than see anymore of THAT.

            Like: Thumb up 3

        • JM says

          Well he asked her, when they were in the tank in 1.13 i think. But he was already dead, and he was about to leave her mind, but she said yes and put the ring on. Its debatable, but she knew it wasnt gonna really happen as he was dead.

          Like: Thumb up 1

          • number six says

            No, she didn’t say yes. He (but in fact that was her, since he was already dead) just put the ring on and disappeared. It was her way to purge his memories out of her mind and have closure with that part of the story.

            Like: Thumb up 6

              • number six says

                No worries, it’s not that important. However, I don’t think Olivia was more mature with John Scott than with Peter for the following reasons:

                - We saw her relationship with John Scott at its last stage, while hers with Peter was new after going through much struggling and doubting. She was giddy and maybe overcompensating the first few days (Os), but she went back to normal, after Bell got purged from her body and she wasn’t fearful of moving forward in her life.

                - I don’t think that having a romance with a ghost is a sign of being mature, that was more like the ideal romance for a teenager from the 19th century, who enjoys Gothic novels. Maybe the whole arc was meant to show that John Scott was indeed innocent, but unfortunately I still remember he murdered a person in the pilot (Olivia also saw him murder others in her mind) and he tried to kill Olivia too, so I saw the whole thing as Olivia’s projecting her desires into reality to help her cope with the betrayal. Once she made him innocent in her mind. She was able to move on and forgot him completely.

                - John Scott might not have been her first great love. Maybe it was that German guy she almost had sex with. He used to be her partner and lover, until he broke up with her.

                This doesn’t mean I think the relationship between Peter and Olivia has been handled particularly well, but I don’t know where this idea that John Scott should be more of a deal, when Olivia herself didn’t make him one. In fact, when Scott was dying, she was busy eyesexing Peter to death and flirting with him (something that didn’t endear her to me at the time).

                Like: Thumb up 6

                • Dylan says

                  It’s interesting that you bring up the guy at the German prison, because her interactions with him were still more mature than with Peter.

                  We can try to explain why she is the way she is with Peter, but no matter what is said, the fact remains; with what we saw of Olivia with Peter, compared with what we saw of Olivia with John, Olivia was a lot more mature (more of an adult relationship, and not a first-time relationship between young teenagers).

                  The problem lies with Olivia, there’s no issue with Peter, John, or the German-prison guy.

                  “In fact, when Scott was dying, she was busy eyesexing Peter to death and flirting with him (something that didn’t endear her to me at the time).”

                  Where did you see that? Even if I somehow missed that on my dozens of rewatches of that episode, we must be dealing with some pretty sloppy writers if while the audience is meant to be sympathetic towards the protagonist and her plight to save her romantic partner, she’s off “eye flirting” with a guy she just met.

                  Like: Thumb up 2

            • Dylan says

              “but in fact that was her, since he was already dead”

              Actually, the entire point of the arc is that John Scott’s memories were inside of Olivia – and as established in the long run, a person’s consciousness is memory – and Scott’s interactions with Olivia went against Walter’s explanation of them just being memory, and revealed that John actually still existed, though slowly disappearing.

              The ring being on her finger would symbolize immediately her agreement to marry him, and if it were all just in her head and her alone – as you said, then that in itself would justify the idea that Olivia married herself to John.

              Like: Thumb up 2

          • lost_stef says

            I feel as though Peter and Olivia have so much seriousness to deal with outside of their relationship that when they are alone they have the right to act giddy and like high school kids.

            Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 32

          • says

            I think it’s safe to say that the overall writing for Olivia’s character has changed 180 degree since season 1 & 2. At least for me, I’m having a hard time coping with this kind of new character that’s been shoved into our faces somewhere along the way in s3.
            The way she deals with the cases, the seriousness, the piercing look in her eyes, it isn’t there anymore. I think the biggest problem for me is that although, we saw her in love in both cases, in s1 and in s3, but it’s still odd because in s3 she’s radically changed the way she looked at and dealt with everything else. I don’t know if it’s the acting or the directing. But something is seriously off, the over smiling and the “all cool faces” that makes me think she really doesn’t care about the dying universes, the war… Except she does because it’s in the script, right? So I don’t know what changed but I don’t like it. I thought the last episode would bring the old Olivia back, but it did the opposite.
            On a side note, I hated that Lincoln has literally taken her role, like, he’s the one who cares to know more about the universe and catch the bad guys, and she’s the one to comforts him and tell him that it’s okay and to be for him what Charlie used to be for her. I can’t believe they made fun of her like this.
            I mean, used to admire the character so very much, like my best best female character (which used to take Sydney’s place), but after s3, my viewing completely shifted. Yes, I feel bad for her, for what she’s going through, for what she’s BEEN through. And, along her “other side” experience, I was all the time like “poor Olivia!”… “OMG, poor girl!”…
            Don’t get me wrong, I still liked her (and I still like her), and felt bad for her, but after some episodes later, I was like “Ok that’s weird”… I don’t know… I just couldn’t see her as the kick ass strong and dead serious lady she used to be. And up till now, even if the writers keep including that in the script, it just doesn’t feel real anymore, because all I feel towards her now is mere empathy and I simply can’t see those treats of that strong blond woman who used to captivate me with her personality especially in season 2, and to whom I was attached to since the pilot. But that’s just my opinion that I’m expressing for the first time, because I always avoided to believe that something about the character has changed completely, and I’m still struggling to recognize or find that old Olivia Dunham in this new one, who, for me, needs a long time to redeem herself.
            Sorry for the long post.

            Like: Thumb up 5

            • JM says

              Hmm yes. To my mind olivia has not been the dunhamnator since 3.08 entrada. She (atleast at the moment) is not as cool as her season 1 and 2 self, shes not badass. I think that will come back though. I think the fanfiction episode (indulge me) wallflower was a showcase of how appalling amberolivia is as a character, and i think that was the intention but im unsure, but whats for sure is she is the worst version of olivia except for bellivia, (maybe they rank equally)

              As much as id like to wish lincoln away i cant, hes made olivia look **it in the first half of season 4, taking the lead in cases and making more deductions when hes a junior agent (who lets face it; looks 18) and however much i berate him, i still cannot believe the people who made up the observers made this character, as walter said in one episode “quite a fall”

              Like: Thumb up 2

            • Dylan says

              I absolutely agree, and just like Walter became plain silly, and Astrid and Broyles became plain redundant – these treatments of each character is just a betrayal of good writing, and of respect to those actors who really put the effort in.

              Consistency is what I always ask for in a show, first and foremost. Fringe has struggled with this for a very long time.

              And I always struggled with the idea that throughout season one, Olivia is scared. In season 2′s first half, she’s scared. In season 2′s second half, they suddenly try to paint this picture that Olivia never lets herself become fearful; “Uh…since when?”

              We also get Olivia, closed off from relationships, unable to know how to deal with them – this is is season 2 and season 3, simultaneously brushing the whole John Scott thing under the rug.

              There are two universes depicted, as there are two timelines. Yet there are a dozen different Olivias that we have seen across the four seasons.

              Like: Thumb up 3

              • lost_stef says

                Every relationship has its serious side and then a playful side. I think they have portrayed to us the audience the serious side of Olivia & Peter’s relationship. They had to deal with alot in the beginning and now the writers are trying to give us the other playfull side where we can see Olivia and Peter relaxed and away from all the intense situations. It may be cheesy but i think that any real relationship is like that. Its not all about being mature and serious, If you cant even laugh with your partner and have a joke then where is all the fun?

                Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 22

                • Dylan says

                  It’s not the laughing and the having of a joke, it was Olivia’s (and just Olivia’s) behaviour around Peter – and as aforementioned, it was one-sided. It was like a sensationalized “I’m happy compared with before” treatment that didn’t suit a show like Fringe, compliment what had come before it, and certainly didn’t seem appropriate given the situation they were in at the time.

                  That’s why it’s difficult for anyone other than a shipper to get invested in that relationship – because of the changes, because of the melodrama and contrivance – there was little to really build investment for an audience member unless they had already imagined the idea of these characters together in their head.

                  Joshua Jackson’s interviews after ‘Over There Part 2′ and his comments regarding the relationship were the same as mine; when you have characters that create a “family unit”, it isn’t expected that the brother will then marry his sister.

                  And we all know that the relationship got out of hand as soon as it was tied to the fate of both universes in ‘Concentrate and Ask Again’…

                  Like: Thumb up 2

            • bluebluesky says

              Hello Patty, oh sorry i mean Zerofine12/tweener/teenymarie/Forever/Failure/Poacherbabies etc. Didnt know you cared about Olivia Dunham lol.

              Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 22

              • says

                Now, that’s really weird! Patty? Seriously?
                Funny how you guys believe that anyone who has a different opinion has to be Patty.

                “It’s a tricky one to play, but I felt Olivia was too full on in her conviction. A bit too needy. It feels as though the character that defined so much of what was great about Fringe has become lost somewhere along the way.”

                Here, a quote from ROCO’s review this week.
                At least someone who watches Fringe and has great insight about it feels that something is a bit off.
                But, You know what? Okay, sorry I wanted the old Olivia back. You guys seriously should start respecting peoples’ opinions here.
                I’m not from US so my expression must have seemed a bit unusual, but the point was the same, something about the Dunhamator has changed, you may agree or disagree @bluebluesky, but there was no need for such accusations.

                Like: Thumb up 2

  46. Rae` says

    I think it’s safe to say here, that there’s always going to be those of us who should agree to disagree, and it’s fair to do so. Everyone’s entitled to feel/act/think how they wish. That being said, I don’t think there is any show on the planet where EVERYONE likes everything about every single episode. And there will be minorities and majorities, overall.

    For instance, The X-files will always be my favorite series, and there were a handful of crap-tastic episodes that resulted in nothing from me other then disappointment. And quite frankly, I’d like to think of the last season of that show as a different series completely, considering it went off the beaten path, IMO.

    So, keeping that in mind, at least this show doesn’t stray from it’s main ‘path’, in other words, the writers know the direction they’re ultimately heading in, be it frustrating for us or not. Yeah, alot of us have our nit-picks here and there about how ‘this or that’ should have been acted/written, but I’m in the minority that trust the writers aren’t going to suddenly give us a ‘jump the shark’ episode and make nothing anymore even remotely believable.

    At least, I can say, from my opinion, that the credibility of this show lies in the fact that from the Pilot on, everything that’s happened (though certain things were painful to sit through/accept/watch in varying opinions) are in the very least, in some way, believable.

    Do I, personally believe that this so called ‘teenage-y version’ of Olivia when she’s with Peter is possible? Yeah. Why? Cause it symbolizes, with him, she’s ‘recognized’ that she’s finally happy, and ergo, can let her hair down about it. With John, perhaps she wanted to believe she loved him, or thought she did, or hell, maybe the type of love and connection she and John had made her seem more ‘mature’ because it was a more guarded experience for her overall. Do I believe she truly loved him? Without a doubt, but she did admit to him that she has a hard time saying ‘I Love You’, so you know, I’d have used the word ‘cautioned’ to describe her type of love for John. Not necessarily more ‘adult’ like. She’s never been open to loving someone, like she clearly loved him, so what I think could be said is that her cautioned realization translated into what seemed like maturity given she didn’t know how to truly ‘let go’ of doubts or inner struggles and simply love someone unguarded-ly.

    With Peter, and her years and personal growth with him, she’s learned a different kind of love,IMO, an ‘open’ love, a less cautioned and guarded love, because as her feelings for him grew, so did her realization that she had free reign to love him without the fear she had with John. When and how exactly did this happen? I don’t know, we didn’t see that side in the show, but you know what regardless, I can believe it possible. Why? Because Olivia was first (to our knowledge) to have said those three little words to Peter, so obviously she wasn’t afraid to feel such a reckless abandon anymore like she had with John. So clearly there, it was a clue to us that she’s no longer afraid, of moving forward in any sense of the word. And, (though I think we could have gotten more satisfactory-dialogue driven scenes, in 6B we know by her ‘I want to know what that feels like’ that she’s ultimately accepting and willing to be ‘open’ and therefore more ‘teen-agy’ like by projecting her desire to be truly happy with Peter into reality.

    All this being said, I’m a firm believer that as the character of Olivia progressed, her stoic, shielded, icy at times, veneer softened with her slow realization that she had the power to make herself happy after all. I think, ultimately, that’s what the whole concept of what the episode 6.B pointed to. She had to create for herself what she wanted, and I think it’s believable that when she finally did, not only did her circumstances change, but her attitude towards it.

    I think it’s realistic to believable that when something significantly positive happens in life, an attitude adjustment is to follow.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 16

    • Scully8 says

      Rae — OMG . . . wonderful job articulating the evolution of the Peter/ Olivia union and more importantly, Olivia’s maturation as a character and her ability to love. I could never articulate it the way you did. Thank you.

      Like: Thumb up 5

    • Dylan says

      It would seem counter-productive for me to argue this against you, given your first paragraph, so I won’t.

      I’ll just agree to disagree with yours, but agree with JM about it being a good post.

      Like: Thumb up 1

  47. Chey says

    Olivia transported herself to the other side. Possibly without realizing it. We don’t know how much time elapsed between her vanishing and then ending up being held captive.

    Like: Thumb up 2

  48. willg says

    An inception dream! I loved that movie but I am not sure how I would feel about that being the case. So much craziness!

    Like: Thumb up 4

  49. lost_stef says

    It is kind of strange how Olivia just disappeared into thin air, and the worker did not even see her. Seriously how could he miss her she is HOT HOT HOT!

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 29

  50. Dylan says

    I’m a little foggy on how exactly they managed to kidnap her in enough time, without anyone noticing, between her walking away from the car and potentially entering the store.

    Like: Thumb up 4

  51. JM says

    I never thought id say this about FRINGE, but i think its time that to fully enjoy the show, you just have to let all the contrivances go by and forget them, else you just dwell on them and it infuriates you, i really like to analyse and discuss on this forum, but somethings are just so badly written on the show, that to enjoy it most you just have to forget they happened.

    For example as far as i am concerned, the episode “wallflower” is not a canon episode of the show. Its fanfiction (as that is the quality of the writing in it)

    Like: Thumb up 6

  52. Dylan says

    I’m mainly watching both Fringe and The Walking Dead at the moment; it’s very demoralizing watching either show and seeing what they have become.

    Fringe beats it competition at the moment very easily. I might not necessarily like Fringe nowadays, but the current developments with Olivia and Nina are at least holding my attention. I’m hoping for good things to come from it, and like I said earlier – if this is a reset of sorts, if this is another season one, then I’ll have to just treat it as such and hope that the upcoming episode can be its ‘Safe’ (the episode that got me invested in Fringe for the long-run).

    I’m really just hanging out now for Game of Thrones to come back and give me strength.

    I want Fringe to return to being a show I desperately look forward to, and not a series I use to bridge time between two shows like Breaking Bad or Game of Thrones.

    Like: Thumb up 1

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>