FRINGE: 4.11 Making Angels

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Over Here Astrid gets an unexpected visit from her Alternate, while Peter and Olivia track a killer using a toxin that has yet to be invented. Both universes collide in a case that pushes the boundaries of what is possible in the all-new “Making Angels” episode of FRINGE airing Friday, Feb. 3 (9:00-10:00 PM ET/PT) on FOX. (FR 4.11) (TV-14 L, V).

Cast: Anna Torv as Olivia Dunham; Joshua Jackson as Peter Bishop; John Noble as Walter Bishop; Lance Reddick as Phillip Broyles; Blair Brown as Nina Sharp; Jasika Nicole as Astrid Farnsworth; Seth Gabel as Lincoln Lee.

Fringe 4.11 "Making Angels" Rating

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  1. Ian Smyth says

    This was an absolutely fantastic episode. I have been waiting all season for the two universes to work together and just talk amongst each other in a casual environment. I have no idea why it’s taken this long for this to happen, the producers sure took their sweet time for the first 7 episodes, but there is good payoff now.

    But, still, since this is in the new timeline, I can’t love it fully. If this was in our timeline, it would have been one of my favourite episodes. I’m just worried that investing in these characters will not pay off. I trust the producers, but if they mess up with this, they will have lost my trust. Until this episode, I kept asking myself the whole point in erasing Peter if September went through all that trouble in Season 2 to save him. It didn’t make sense, and still doesn’t. But there was some excellent Observer pay off at the end of Making Angels, and that makes me believe that we will be receiving the whole Peter paradox answer soon, hopefully by the end of this season.

    Roco, I’m sure you’ll be happy to see the follow up to September not erasing Peter. I know that bugged you ;)

    Overall, fantastic episode. 9/10. Let’s see some more answers next week, eh?

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8

    • says

      “I have been waiting all season for the two universes to work together and just talk amongst each other in a casual environment.”

      I concur! Sure there’s a budget factor in having a bunch of doubles roaming around, but it feels like there should have been more cross universe case work like this. I will say they made this special though. A double Astrid episode, plus observers, plus loads of mythology.

      Hey Producers, show runners, and writers, now “Making Angels” is what you call a LOVE LETTER to your fans, your cast, and your show.

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      • SF says

        “Hey Producers, show runners, and writers, now “Making Angels” is what you call a LOVE LETTER to your fans, your cast, and your show.”

        I love that, RoSull! Well said. This was such a fun episode, and rich with layers and meanings – I kept thinking about how knowing how the original versions acted, meant that what these versions are doing have a layer of meaning around them. So the first (original) Olivia would never have watched Peter the way the altLiv in this version kept flicking her eyes over to him, drawn to him. It was almost like some part of her recognized him, even though it was her other (alternate) self in our universe who fell in love with him….we need to have some way to name these versions! lol

        I really liked seeing these two versions of Astrid, and how they each have a different relationship to this Walter….again comparing to how the original Astrid relates to Walter, and this is the first time we’ve seen an alternate Astrid with a ‘original’ Walter….it really brought home that there were 4 versions of each character we have been watching. I really enjoyed seeing this autistic Astrid with the much softer, gentler Astrid in contrast. One has no empathy, the other buckets of it. I’m not sure that Peter living or dying in this particular timeline would affect Autistic Astrid (for lack of a better way to describe her) in how she developed, but what this episode lets us see is all the variations a person can have, and through the four seasons, what the world is like with Peter in it, and without. Since they wanted this season to show how Peter affected the world through relationships, this episode really fulfills that, I think. It’s not the best in terms of the story (the reason for the story of the week bad guy killing people isn’t one of the best), but the acting was top-notch. And I really like that the third victim tried to fight off the killer. Yes! even if he couldn’t escape his fate, he still tried.

        And maybe that is the key point of this episode: fate.

        Like: Thumb up 7

      • Ian Smyth says

        Yeah I’ve read Dark Kate’s and Dylan’s comments on the Peter problem ;)

        For me, the machine paradox does not bother me. I believe that sending the machine parts back in time did cause the original universal split, and to balance the two universes, two machines existed in both worlds, regardless of Peter’s ability to turn them on (which explains why the machine exists in the new timeline, but he can’t activate it because it was never tuned to his genetic profile).

        For me, the real Peter paradox is why the Observers went through all the trouble to save him and ensure his survival, only to erase him once he had bridged the two universes. I want an answer to that this season, and I believe we will get that answer, which will explain the whole point of this new timeline.

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  2. says

    This episode is the reason why there just needs to be more Astrid sprinkled throughout. The two Astrid’s together just touched me, and more than once I had single tear stream down my cheek. Well done, Jasika!

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 17

    • Ben says

      It was very touching to find out that Astrid had a close relationship to her father and lied to Altstrid in order to take away some of her pain. It was a very Astrid thing to do.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8

      • says

        Such a very Astrid thing to do. Also, Alstrid had her own very similar moment when she was with Walter. I like how she simplified his conflicted emotions for Peter into basically, ” Just accept him as your son and feel better” [heavily paraphrased].

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9

        • DeepRunner says

          You could see Walter thinking about Astrid’s suggestion. My guess is, because of the instant relationship Walter established with AltAstrid, she was the only one who could say it and get him to consider it. Our Astrid could not have, Olivia no, certainly it would have been heresy for Peter to suggest it to Walter and would have most likely have sent Walter back to St. Claire’s.

          I know people with Asperger’s, though not to AltAstrid’s degree, but I think Jasika Nicole has nailed it throughout.

          Like: Thumb up 4

  3. scully8 says

    Love the episode. I teared up and I just loved walter’s inter action with Astrid. On another note, does anyone think an amber lincoln and alt liv may be getting together? It was a throw away line, but altliv’s comment that she likes nice guys was interesting. I also notice how she connected with amber linc in “enemy of my eNemy”. Just sayin’.

    In any event, I jsu loved this episode and it confirmed that our astrid is a sweet person.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8

    • DeepRunner says

      I had wondered if they laid the foundation for that in Enemy of My Enemy, given all the interaction that Lincoln and Altlivia had, and that it was Lincoln who approached her with the idea that there was a mole in the AltUniverse’s Fringe Division.

      Still, the interaction between the two Olivias about Peter was interesting. In their exchange, I initially thought that they were laying the groundwork for The Triangle Part Deux. It certainly seemed like Altlivia was sizing up eye-candy when she looked at Peter.

      Like: Thumb up 5

      • Scully8 says

        Yeah, that’s way the ‘seems I like nice guys’ stuck out to me. We’ll see . . . I’m sure AltLincoln won’t be too thrilled if after all this time, AltLiv goes for the ‘other’ Lincoln. I like that love triangle much better.

        It seems that Olivia is starting to trust and even like Peter a little, but I hope it’s not romantic because if he does go ‘back home’, she’d be left with a broken heart. :(

        Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 10

        • DeepRunner says

          On the Olivia broken heart…yeah, maybe. Don’t know. If Peter really is “stuck here,” and this really IS home, as some others on the Interwebs have—hmmm…Walter word here—POSITED, then maybe not, because it will be as it was before, only with deja vu, so to speak, for Peter. I don’t think it will initially be romantic, because Peter has told Lincoln (hmmm…what if HE is a shapeshifter?), this is not HIS Olivia, so my guess is Peter would not warm-up to the idea immediately. I still think Altlivia may have interest in Peter. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

          Overall, the show has picked-up a goodly amount of speed, and, if this is indeed the final season (on Fox, at least), the writers may be putting things in place for the finale. Here’s hoping it lasts another season or two.

          Like: Thumb up 5

    • Niomi Lianne says

      I think that altliv felt some sort of recognition or familiarity with peter. Afterall, she did fall in love with him and she did have his baby. I think that the reason why she seemed so curious about him was because she had a small spark of recognition. It reminds me of when peter was asking new timeline olivia about her dreams. He had asked her if she felt like she knew him in her dreams and based on her shocked non-response, the answer was probably yes. So maybe, because Peter left a mark on her soul, alt-liv is effected by his prescence but not as much as Olivia or Walter. After all, walter was the one hearing his voice and having visions while olivia was seeing him in her dreams.

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  4. megan says

    Pretty good episode. I loved the interactions with the two Astrids. Jasika did a wonderful job.
    I also enjoyed the banter between Walter and Altlivia…I got a kick out of it…lol

    But I still can’t fully invest in these versions of our characters. What’s gonna be the payoff if any?

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    • number six says

      No, he isn’t. He’ll be back with a vengeance with episodes focused on him.

      I forgot him completely, I didn’t notice he wasn’t in the episode at all! Well, except for Altlincoln’s cameo at the beginning. Maybe that’s why I was enjoying the episode so much? That must be it, because whenever he is on screen, I have to look away and wonder… Why? He doesn’t look the part! He doesn’t act the part! His role is to disrupt the original team’s chemistry! :(

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      • JM says

        Thankfully thats not till 4.17. Im beginning to think seth gabel is genuinely a poor actor.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9

        • Scully8 says

          Let’s just say he’s not the say caliber of the rest of the cast.

          However I did like him in Sexy, Crazy, Money — the ABC short-lived series a few seasons back. He played a young immature rich kid with a heart.

          Like: Thumb up 0

            • ApplesBananasRhinoceros says

              Sometimes in real life, people just exist even though you don’t know why. I think Lincoln is that type of character here on Fringe. If Peter and Linc had a beer after work and he became somebody Peter could confide in about all the stuff going on, I think that could be a very good redeeming direction for Lincoln’s character and give us a little insight into Peter’s state of mind too now.

              Like: Thumb up 3

          • Jen says

            I’m not a fan of the Lincoln character, period. I’m not sure that it would matter who was portraying him. I thought Seth Gabel was great in Nip/Tuck several years ago and I don’t really fault him for my dislike of Lincoln Lee. I just feel as though he’s a character with very little value. I don’t see that the character brings anything to the show and honestly, he just serves to annoy me.

            Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 11

      • Scully8 says

        I totally agree with you all counts.

        Linc is definitely coming back . . . remember the showrunners love his character. I don’t dislike the character or actor, but he just disrupts the chemistry. Why can’t they see that . . .

        In any event, I truly loved all of the interaction between the characters in the episode. I think AltLivia is a bit over the top, but I must say that I enjoyed her interaction with Walter and Olivia. Very cool.

        Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 11

  5. number six says

    This is why the show always needs more Astrid. I’d love to squish both versions in the tightest of hugs. Jasika was wonderful, she brings the warm fuzzy feelings like nobody’s business and this season has been such a flatline emotionally, that I feel this episode was urgently needed.

    Altlivia was just weird. I don’t understand how she can think that deceiving people is just fun games. Is she that obtuse? She is not as awful as S3 Altlivia, but she’s still annoying at times. However, she tried to be friendly this time and I appreciate that. She certainly came much better off than Walter, whose petulant child act got old 5 episodes ago.

    So this man found September’s device at Raiden Lake and gained Observer-like powers. Did I get this correctly? Does that mean the Observer’s abilities depend on technology?

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    • JM says

      I thought jasika did wonderfully also. Although i dont think it was as astrid centric as i would have liked or as we were told it would be. it was more like there was a COTW with astrid sprinkled on the side, i wanted her to be the driver of the case.

      The absence of lincoln benefitted the episode, if only he could be at his stepdaughters birthday every episode, the bit with altlincoln at the beginning was even cringeworthy for me and it was about 30 seconds long! :L

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      • number six says

        I could have done without Altlivia if that had meant more Astrid/Altstrid scenes, TBH, I was also hoping for more. Besides, Altlivia was flirting too much. She even looked attracted to Walter. There were some odd acting choices going on there. Creepy! However, it all ended on a high note with Altstrid’s farewell, Astrid’s scene at home with her father and the Observers recovering September’s device.

        Yeah, it was cringeworthy and unnecessary. I was disappointed to see him, but fortunately he was soon forgotten.

        Like: Thumb up 7

        • JM says

          glad i am not the only one who picked up on that, the final scene between her and walter saying “are you flirting with me?” “in your dreams” was creepy as ****!

          Like: Thumb up 3

          • says

            Oh the irony.
            I think you are misinterpreting the playfullness of the scene.
            I loved the way Walter and Altlivia’s relationship played out.
            But was Altlivia flirting for amusement ? Because it sure was an
            ice-breaker with Walter.

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      • DeepRunner says

        Maybe Lincoln is going the way of Charlie…a partner who lasted a season and a few episodes. But, IMO, Charlie (both versions) was cooler than Lincoln. They should bring him back for at least one episode.

        Like: Thumb up 6

    • DeepRunner says

      The Two Astrids were very good portrayals by Jasika Nicole.

      Interesting that so much activity centers on Reiden Lake, and makes it the intersection point of all timelines. It was where Walter crossed-over (in both timelines), where September saved them (and didn’t save them), where DRJ attempted to cross-over in the original timeline (and most likely crossed-over in Amberworld), where last night’s Freak o’ the Week had a lakehouse. (Interesting also that Peter looked across the lake, like he was recognizing his old lakehouse.)

      As far as the Observers go, I have had a theory that December (the oldest Observer) was connected with September having been shot before he appeared to Olivia in the opera house. It will be good to see how the dialogue between the two Observers from last night plays out.

      Like: Thumb up 4

  6. M says

    This episode made me think back to The Arrival, when a guy showed up with similar abilities and tech as the Observers, but appeared to be human.

    Like: Thumb up 2

  7. Cody says

    I didn’t expect this much mythology from this episode and i don’t consider it to really be a stand alone episode. All i know is Nissan Leaf was looking good in this episode! lol!

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    • WaySeeker says

      I hadn’t noticed cars before on Fringe, but the LEAF stood out this time! LOL It was when they were re-charging it by that weird station and having a conversation that first caught my eye to the car.
      It made me wonder, do they really have those stations, I don’t think I’ve seen any where I live :(

      Like: Thumb up 2

  8. M says

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe this was the first time the name “September” was used on screen. It’s finally canon!

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  9. JM says

    Great episode, much better than last weeks “forced perspective”. As i said in another comment i didnt think was necessarily as advertised, there was a lot of hype regarding the astrid centric nature of this episode, and i dont think it was “astrid centric” it just had more than one astrid (and a lot more screentime for both of them) for me this just highlighted the fact that jasika should have been given more chances in peters absence and other reason why lincoln should not be on fringe (better actor + better character)

    I have said before i am liking altlivia more this season, but the character is doing her best to change my opinion she was back to her annoying OTT sassiness and playful personality, she is a much better character when she has serious things to do.

    I agree with the other people who have said walter’s annoying child act has become very old, he was fine in 4.10 then reverted back to his old habits in this episode, both altlivia and amberwalter took a step back in this episode for me.

    Olivia was less boring in this episode, but still quite. I also think that while it was nice she said to peter he made a good partner, i think its quite selfish how she and walter have acted towards peter, its not his fault he got put in this timeline or that he cant leave (at the moment) but they still were so harsh to him just because he made them uncomfortable, that has been one of my main complaints about these characters they didnt even bother to put themselves in his position. I think that the old tried and tested partnership of peter and olivia was well done, and i didnt realise how much i missed it, they actually work as a team opposed to olivia and lincoln.

    Finally, I find it hard to believe that the observer who observed peters return took SO long to tell the head observer peter was back. It was what 6 episodes (so like a few months). Ridiculous.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 17

    • JM says

      Ill also add the observers comment at the end “peter bishop has returned” keyword: returned. Meaning he has come back, meaning this is our universe: confirmation!

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      • Scully8 says

        Man . . . I think you are correct. I’ve always felt that the Amberverse is ‘our’ universe, just without Peter. Yeah, and really . . . my guy didn’t tell December that Peter was back seven episodes ago. Naw . .. not buying it. He should be repremained. :)

        Also, JM, loved your comments above; although, I’m not as bothered by Walter and Altlivia’s immature actions — I think it’s for comic relief, which we have had very little of this season so far.

        I will say again, Lincoln doesn’t really add anything to the team or the show. However, I do trust the writers, so maybe his inclusion and excessive screen time will pay off.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9

      • M says

        Completely agree. I think that was the point of alt-Astrid telling Walter to pretend Peter is his son so he’ll feel better.

        We never left, folks

        Like: Thumb up 4

      • Schwakamole says

        I took it as he has returned to existence and didn’t think it was tied to a specific timeline because, obviously, he can exist in more than one timeline. So I don’t believe it’s confirmation whatsoever.

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    • number six says

      We didn’t see that Observer’s face. It could have been September. If it was him, it makes sense that he didn’t report the event to the other Observers. However, that doesn’t excuse that the other Observers didn’t know until now. It’s not like Peter was hiding all this time.

      So if the Observers didn’t know about September’s insubordination, who shot him and why?

      Like: Thumb up 3

      • JM says

        Yes if it was september that would make sense, but the back of that observers head did not look like septembers, i actually thought of august straight away.

        Like: Thumb up 2

        • starg8fans says

          I was thinking the same thing. If the Observers are capable of seeing the past, present and future at the same time, how could they NOT be aware of the fact that Peter’s back?

          My theory about September is that he’s going to catch the bullet that’s meant for Olivia, giving his life to make her ‘important’ – just as August did in the S2 episode of that name – so she will be allowed to live on.

          Like: Thumb up 6

          • FringeFriday says

            Gotta be with you on that one- when I first thought about September’s gun shot wound I thought he must have taken the bullet for Olivia.

            And yes, if the Observers know past, present and future I wonder why they just now realized that Peter is back and not even mention that September is MIA!???

            Like: Thumb up 3

          • Penny Laine says

            I hadn’t thought of that, but I love the theory! However, didn’t the observers at the end of this episodes imply that September is still alive? When talking about the “thing” that belongs to him one of them says sth like “he’ll want to know what hapenned to it”. Unless they don’t know he’s dead yet, which wouldn’t make sense, given that they can see past, present and future…

            And yes, I was also shocked to find out that the other Observers ddn’t know about Peter. But I’m glad they are finally addressing September’s choice not to erase him!

            Like: Thumb up 0

          • Ian S. says

            I think the Observers can only see the past, present, and future of events that they have not intervened with. I don’t think they can predict other Observer’s actions, which means September could have brought Peter back without the other Observers knowing. There must be a lot of trust between all 12 of them then to be able to carry out plans while not being able to see if every Observer is following directions completely.

            I think I need to go rewatch this season and see which Observers are around when Peter is around. If it’s September, that makes sense. If I see March or December around, I call plot hole. But if there are other Observers watching Peter, it might seem that there is some sort of mutiny occurring.

            Like: Thumb up 3

            • DeepRunner says

              In episodes from previous seasons, I have sort of figured that somehow, at least one Observer knows/senses timeline disruption by interference and its effects, and at least reports it to December, as happened last night. Of all the Observers, September has been the most empathetic with Walter, Peter, and Olivia. I would not be surprised that September’s interference with the course of action and timeline is because he feels some sort of fealty toward them, as though they were more than his project or assignment.

              Like: Thumb up 1

              • Ian S. says

                I totally agree. I’m still not letting go the possibility that the child observer back in Season 1 was actually a young September. I mean, they don’t make a shot with the child locking eyes with September for no reason right! I think it would make sense too, September would feel emotion towards our Fringe team, possibly even love. I think he could also see that Walter was a better man with Peter around. September seems quite capable of human emotion.

                After this episode, I believe the Observers were all once human, and their heavy use of technology such as seeing the past present and future all at once, amongst other things, really mesed up their minds and humanity and stripped them of what made them ‘people’. They are essentially, what David Robert Jones did to humans to make them human shapeshifters. That’s my theory anyways.

                Like: Thumb up 1

  10. Mike says

    It was a very good episode 8/10. I especially enjoyed the acting – Anna, John and now Jasika – they excel at the little subtleties that make each version of them so fascinating and ultimately believable.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 25

  11. FringeFriday says

    THE VIPER!!!!!!!!! hilarious, this episode was full of jokes, LOVED IT!

    It was the first time I didn’t even think or miss our Linc in an episode… you are right, he is so not important compared to the original team. They should make Peter Olivia’s partner (well she said he is great) and dump Linc. Over There Linc is much more appreciated!

    Mata Hari Olivia kinda grew on me over the S4 episodes but I gotta ask: on what drugs was she during that episode???? gosh, she was too chearful if you ask me….

    About the Observer theme in this ep: I am totally confused all over again. As talked about in a blog above, how could they have missed Peter’s comeback or September’s MIA? Or even September’s blue light thingy missing? If the know past, present and future, they should know. Unless it is part of their storyline. Keeps bugging me!!!!!!!!!!

    Astrid on Astrid action was great!!! She is such a big part of the Fringe family that needs to me appreciated more! Great acting, great scenes!

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9

    • Penny Laine says

      I agree that Lincoln just feels right over there but he’s not that crutial over here… I’ve said before I didn’t like how they had forced the character into the team over here and he really pissed me off the first 5 episodes, but I find him OK over here in small doses, as a secondary character. However, over there he fits so much better.

      I also found Altlivia very annoying this episode, a bit overacted. I LOVE Anna, but she went a bit too far this time…

      The best things about this episode for me were the Astrids and the Observers! Jasika was flawless and Alt-Astrid is just so cool!! I felt very bad for her though, she’s so alone…

      Like: Thumb up 7

  12. DeepRunner says

    The exchange last night between Olivia and Peter, where she said he would make a good partner, since he was “stuck here.” He was cordial about it but noncommittal. Some thoughts:

    – The days of Lincoln being her partner look like they are coming to an end (In Star Trek, Lincoln may have been “Data” to Peter’s “Kirk”)

    – The door is now open for Peter and Olivia to get back to what they were at the end of Season 3

    Like: Thumb up 4

    • Scully8 says

      Yeah, I think the Peter Olivia reconnection is coming, but I don’t think romatically, at least not in the beginning. Also, as I’ve posted above, it will be interesting to see how AmberOlivia reacts to AmberLincoln’s attraction and possible hook up with AlterLivia will be. If she’s jealous, then her feelings for Peter are platonic . . . maybe.

      This episode was really loaded with fun stuff . . . mythology heave and Astrid. I thought it significant that the writers were the showrunners and Akiva; that is why this episode has laid some ground work for the big reveal — peter’s home, observers are flawed :) Olivia finds that Nina has betrayed her and Olivia and Peter get back together (this last one is because I’m a huge Polivia advocate).

      Like: Thumb up 5

  13. Surun Tunne says

    great episode, jasika was awesome!
    has anyone else noticed that when walter is sitting on his chair with headphones on, he was listening to “keep climbing” by violet sedan chair! :-)

    Like: Thumb up 3

  14. MISSNETT says

    I loved this episode. Jasika Nicole really did a great job! I said in a tweet that everyone should have an Astrid in their lives!
    I personally thought Altlivia was hilarious! Great interaction with Walter!
    And I did a little scream inside when Olivia said Peter was a good partner!
    My question of the episode is this: what about the equation Neil was working on? The MIT professor said Neil was trying to prove a flattening of time and space. Is this how they are going to resolve the question of how Peter will get “home”? All I kept thinking was they needed to grab those papers from the house and take them back to the lab and try to figure them out!
    Aw the beauty of Fringe. Makes my brain twist and turn trying to figure out what’s going on! Seems I have a different theory every week!
    By the way did anyone get the Glyphs for this week?

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 20

    • Red Balloon says

      I completely agree with you, it was an emotional and fun episode, Jasika was great and the writers worked the terrain to resolve more questions on the next ones. The doppelgangers were excellent!, and I’m liking more and more how they are driving the characters to a natural interaction level. I even enjoyed Walter’s hesitation toward Peter, I think is going to be a natural bond when he can’t argue his love for him anymore, and of course it was hilarious to watch him with Altiv. IMO all the characters in play found themselves in a better position to believe them when they team up again soon.

      Like: Thumb up 6

  15. g33k says

    I loved this episode and thought it was good timing to show exactly where the relationships between all the characters stand between each other. Peter/Walter, Olivia/Fauxlivia, Astrid/Walter, even Alt-Broyles seemed more hard-a$$ on Kick Astrid to me when he wanted to send a whole team to go get her. Another indication in my mind that he’s actually a shape-shifter and not just a person who decided to work for Jones.

    This episode felt like a taking a deep breath character development wise because we could be getting more action packed episodes to come. I think highlighting Astrid/Kick Astrid was a perfect way to do that. I was so hoping to see Kick Astrid caffeinated, the way she spits out numbers so efficiently is already rapid-fire I want to see Nicole’s spin on an extra-efficient Kick Astrid hopped up on caffeine! PLUS sugar! XD

    This episode to me showed how strong an actress Jasika Nicole is, and why everyone always wants more! :-) I hope we keep getting more going forward and that somehow the roles of Astrid won’t always take such a back seat. Even though I know that’s likely a gigantic challenge with a show that has so much going on in it. Yikes.

    On a rewatch I was considering what this episode would have been like if Micheal Ecklund (Milo S3 E3 The plateau) had portrayed the person with the September’s lost item in this universe. But of course, like Astrid the Milo in this universe would be starting out as someone who wasn’t developmentally different to juxtapose the Astrid/Kick Astrid relationship, but maybe Eklund was busy shooting Alcatraz at the time! I guess his dance card was full. lol

    On the other hand, the case of the week seemed to be a reflection on September and not Astrid, so perhaps adding Milo into the mix may have detracted from what they were trying to accomplish. Oh well.

    The subject matter of the case of the week did make me feel like this was more a mythology episode and really blurred the lines. My questions on the September’s blue glow-stick are still forming, but some of them are:
    Why is it that no matter what September did in either universe at Reiden Lake (saves/doesn’t save Peter) does he loose the blue glow stick? Or did he only loose the glow stick when he doesn’t save Peter?
    Why do they need something to help them predict the future? And how did the observers get these items in the first place?
    If September lost his little death prediction blue glow-stick, then could he have been wrong when he told Olivia that she has to die from what he saw of every timeline?
    If the blood test shows they’ve been human all this time, do they use other devices to help them travel through time?
    The blue glow-stick has the same blue glow the machine sometimes gets…. oooo… :-) could this be a link between the observers and the machine? Are the observers the ones the machine is powered by now? Minus Peter?

    I always love and episode when an episode I watch answers some questions for me (Kick Astrid + coffee) and leaves me with a whole new batch. :-) I like the intrigue.

    Like: Thumb up 6

    • Schwakamole says

      I always wonder why the overthere folks don’t head back with 10 to 20 cases of coffee?! They could make a killing! And in the spirit of universal cooperation, shouldn’t there be some sharing of resources between the universes? Over Here should be getting more advanced technology and they should at the very least be getting some coffee and a couple of pens.

      Like: Thumb up 7

  16. Schwakamole says

    I enjoyed the show very much because of all the observers and seen the interaction of the two sides. I like Astrid/Alstrid but they are not the reason I watch the show. So it was interesting but not the huge watershed moment it seemed to be for some. I did enjoy, however, the differences between this timeline Astrid and our original timeline Astrid…she lives on her own in an apartment in the original timeline and here it appears she lives with her father. Astrid seems to have a need for a father-figure in her life. Which would explain why she is much more attached to Walter in the original timeline than she is in this one. I also liked the line about Astrid being Walter’s voice. Cool.

    So I’m wondering what this blue thingamajingy is. Someone above commented that it’s what gives them their ability to see past/present/future, however, September hasn’t had it since 1985 and we just saw him do his little copycat thing with Olivia when he was shot so they obviously don’t NEED it to tell the future. Or else he’s borrowing someone elses? So our professor dude was already working on some pretty intense mathmatics and something about this device helped him get it all together. Sounds as though he’s been unhinged much of his life and this just put him over the edge. But I thought for sure they were going to explore Peter’s timeline snafu more when they were talking about flattening out time. He certainly perked up his ears when they mentioned that. I’ll bet we haven’t seen the last of those papers with all the equations hanging on the walls.

    Anyway, back to the observers, what was with the walking through the window thing? Since when can they travel through matter? I’m hoping we learn more about that. In fact, I’m hoping we get WAY more on the observers the rest of the season.

    Altlivia may have seemed super chipper because she’s in direct contrast with Olivia who can be a bit of a wet blanket. I think Walter finds it easier to forgive her because there was no love triangle involved with his son. I wish they would have showed Olivia’s feelings when Walter was warming up to Altlivia. Seems she should be pretty miffed that he could be so cozy with the woman who took her place as she was in prison on the other side.

    I wish they would have included just a line or two about DRJ or about Nina so we could have continued those story lines.

    Sorry, kind of fragmented on my thoughts. Haven’t had a chance to rewatch and find all the subtlety that I like to find. It’s good to read everyone’s comments though.

    Oh, and I’m just waiting to meet Sam Weiss! Where is he!?

    Like: Thumb up 6

    • DeepRunner says

      I, too, have wondered about Sam Weiss. But much of Sam’s mysticism in Season 3 centered on Peter and Olivia (the outcome depends on which version of Olivia, ours or theirs, Peter chooses). It would be interesting to see how they would work Sam back in.

      Regarding Math-Man (anti-hero name), one of Fringe’s sort-of-recurring themes seems to center on incredibly brilliant people who end up on the far end of sanity/good citizen conduct, and whose choices have high-octane consequences. Walter, Walternate, William Bell, the dude from White Tulip, Herschel from the equation episode of Season 1, and others. The inability to check one’s passions seems to have provided a pretty strong undercurrent throughout the show’s existence.

      I don’t know if Math-Man’s formula will play into getting Peter home. I think his ears perked-up because he knew the Observers were able to see past, present, and future, just as this guy was. Peter’s survival in the original timeline depended entirely on September’s choice to save Peter and Walter at Reiden Lake. His existence in this timeline, where no one knew him, depended entirely on September not intervening at all at Reiden Lake, and by September’s decision to not wipe him completely from existence once the two universes were merged. So I am not sure flattening time and space, as Math-Man did, is how Peter will get back.

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  17. Sofia says

    The fact that a part of what is an observer could be pure math, reassure my theory that maybe Walter made them in the future…

    Like: Thumb up 3

  18. mlj102 says

    There has been a lot of praise for Jasika Nicole’s performance in this episode, and rightfully so because she did a fantastic job with double duty as both Astrids. But I also wanted to point out Anna Torv’s wonderful performance as both Olivias. I think we have become so accustomed to seeing both Olivias, that it has lost a lot of the initial awe and amazement when we see one or both of them, and it’s easy to take for granted the amazing performance she gives. But honestly, whether you like alternate Olivia or not, you can’t deny that Anna Torv does an outstanding job portraying both versions. I seriously have to keep reminding myself that they are both played by the same actress because they are completely different and distinct as they would be if two entirely different actresses were playing them, and I instinctively think of them as two separate people. That’s no small achievement. And it really says something about the quality of the show when they’re able to take something so epic and noteworthy and incorporate it so much into the core of the show that it’s just another common occurrence.

    I’m still confused about September’s device and what it does, exactly. I was under the impression that it was only the thing that allowed him to mercifully kill his targets — though I’m not sure what use that would be to an observer. It doesn’t make sense that the observers require any piece of technology in order to know what they know. And I don’t recall the episode stating that the device was what allowed Neil to know what was going to happen. Perhaps it was implied at some point? But I had just figured that it was Neil’s background in math and his work on the equations that he eventually solved that allowed him to know what was going to happen. It was when he discovered the device with the compound that he was able to combine with his knowledge and actually do something about it. But it all sort of feels rather unclear.

    I loved seeing the observer sort of fade in and out from where he was watching what was going on. I mentioned this on Seriable, but I’ve long suspected that they could just appear or disappear, moving from one place/universe/time to another. I felt like this episode sort of confirmed that.

    Many have asked how the Observers didn’t know that Peter had returned until now, if they are able to see past, present, and future. I don’t really have a strong answer for that, but I don’t think it’s anything new. The Observers know all the potential outcomes — everything that COULD happen, but that doesn’t mean they know which of all those possible futures will be the one that actually happens. That’s why they observe: to see what actually happens. And that’s why they’re regularly reporting in to one another (or some superior figure) about what is actually happening. It’s the same thing we saw in August, after August kidnapped Christine, the other observers were oblivious to his actions until July met up with them and told them what August had done. So since Peter’s return was an unexpected variable, something that September was supposed to have prevented, they had no reason to suspect that he was back.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 22

    • Ian S. says

      I suspect that Observers cannot predict actions by other Observers, since they can make any action they want, the possibilities are infinite. Therefore, unless one of them actually saw Peter Bishop in the flesh other then September (or another Observer working with him), they would have no idea.

      For the flatliner, I think that piece of technology allowed Neil to see time flat and finish his equations. The weapon he used to kill, however, was something different I think. That’s what I took from it. I’m beginning to think that the Observers were once human, and the use of technology eventually destroyed their humanity (sort of like how David Robert Jones converted humans into human shapeshifters).

      I mean, if you had the flatliner and could see the present, past, and future, wouldn’t it drive you crazy and hurt your brain? Look at what began to happen to Neil. He sounded like an Observer in his way of speech. I believe Observers were human and given technology to do a specific purpose, but the technology eventually took away their humanity, even things like taste. Therefore, they are still able to feel human emotions, like August or September.

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    • says

      In ” Neither Here Nor There” December handed September a small metallic bar in a diner and said, ” THEY can never know the boy lived to be a man.”
      Who are They ?

      September replied, ”I will take care of it.”
      This implies that December knew September lost his original bar.

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      • Ian S. says

        I assumed “they” was referring to anyone of importance that had to do with Peter in our timeline, like Walter, Olivia, Astrid, etc.

        Like: Thumb up 1

  19. J.P. says

    Well, sorry it’s taken me a few days to get here, and I’ll do my best to watch the next episode when it actually airs. I thought it was a very good episode, an improvement from last week’s case of the week. The entire episode didn’t seem very “Astrid centric”, only a handful fo scenes did. But either way, Jasika Nicole did a great job playing both Astrid’s, and this is definately some of her finest work on the show.

    Like others, I found the Observer material was confusing. I don’t understand the purpose of the blue bar — it’s to painlessly kill someone? Since when are Observers “righteous assassins”? They aren’t supposed to get involved, and when last I checked saving someone from a cruel life by killing them quickly is definately “getting involved”. And didn’t December give September another blue bar in “Neither Here Nor There”, or was that some other piece of machinery… ?
    The “Peter Bishop is back” line implies validity to a long-held theory that this is in fact our universe, and the others, for whatever reasons, aren’t able to remember him the way we do.
    I admit to smiling a bit when they called him “September”. Finally, it’s canon now, folks!

    It was refreshing to see Olivia and Peter (and JUST Olivia and Peter, with only a bit of Astrid there and no Lincoln whatsoever) working a case together. Even though this is a “different Olivia”, we got the sense that she’s beginning to appreciate him more and more. Parts of the episode felt like the good old days. While other parts, like Walter’s ridiculous “I love Peter, I hate Peter” attitude is just getting more and more annoying. He was great with Peter, and then somehow it all changes. It’s obvious the writers made this a plot point just so Alt-Astrid could point out it might be easier for Walter to agree to love Peter, to “end his suffering”. Watch that be a cleverly-placed tease for a later development…

    And I totally understand why they did it, but was I the only one who cringed in that scene between the two Olivia’s when they’re talking about Peter… ? “Oh, he’s cute” — “oh, he’s just your type”… yawn…

    Anyways, Fringe seems to be decent right now with a string of “average” episodes. Obviously I hope that I’d find them better than “average”, and that I won’t find complaints in them anymore, but there seems to be hope. And I loved Lincoln’s absence in this episode… I really, really, really loved it.

    Like: Thumb up 5

  20. Ian S. says

    The blue bar is different from what Neil used to kill. The blue bar, the Flatlliner, is used to see the past, present, and future all at once. Neil’s device, while similar looking, is different. If you pause it on the scene when he uses it, you’ll see. That’s something they should have explained better in this episode.

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