FRINGE: 4.08 Back To Where You’ve Never Been

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In an effort to find a way home, Peter journeys to the Other Side to confront Walternate. However, his venture proves more dangerous than expected. Meanwhile, Olivia receives a dire premonition from an Observer in the all-new “Back to Where You’ve Never Been” Winter Premiere episode of FRINGE airing  Friday, Jan. 13 at 9PM on FOX.

Cast: Anna Torv as Olivia Dunham; Joshua Jackson as Peter Bishop; John Noble as Walter Bishop; Lance Reddick as Phillip Broyles; Blair Brown as Nina Sharp; Jasika Nicole as Astrid Farnsworth; Seth Gabel as Lincoln Lee.

Fringe 4.08 "Back To Where You've Never Been" Rating

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      • mlj102 says

        I don’t think product placement is intended to be subtle. Otherwise, it wouldn’t really be product placement anymore. That said, I think Fringe does a pretty decent job creating a scenario that will allow it to blend in as best as is possible. It could be worse. I still can’t get over some of the obvious types of product placement I’ve seen in other shows (Bones is a prime example).

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  1. Ben says

    Interesting. Elizabeth B. tumbled to Peter’s identity right away, even though her son died in this timeline too. Did she always know on some level he was still alive? Could be why she didn’t go the same route as our Elizabeth.

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    • says

      I pretty much chalked it up to “A mom can recognize her child”. Believe me, you spend every moment wondering about what your baby/child will grow up to be and look like. It was very touching to have that instant recognition with no other qualifiers needed.

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      • says

        What a difference in Orla’s appearance from this episode, and when she was re-united with Peter in Over There , Part 1 after 20 years.
        She looked fantastic, just beautiful last night, compared to the greying hair, bags under the eyes, from Over There.
        Such a great transition.

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        • Sofia says

          I think that the answer for this difference of appearance is because a mother who lost her son for death, will move on one day. With all the pain in the world, but eventually, she’ll move on.

          But a mother who have her child still missing, she’ll be trapped forever in that lethargic and unbearable wave of pain. She’ll never move on, how could she? She’ll wait for her son every day and while you wait, you don’t live.

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        • lizw65 says

          Some of that could have to do with her seemingly better relationship with Walternate. If she cares about her husband and wants to look good for him, maybe she colors her hair in this timeline, and has had some “work” done…

          Or, she could just be a shapeshifter.

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    • Real1 says

      Actually that’s got me for this episode , that any one who’s having a deep love can recognize the loved ones through the looking in to his/her eyes , it’s very very touching and if you ask me it’s so real … that you will find out your lover from looking in to eyes .

      Very strong episode .

      9.8/10

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    • says

      I have sons ages 31 and 28. I know beyond the shadow of a doubt that if I hadn’t seen them since they were small boys, I would recognize them immediately, and I commented that to my husband as we were watching the show. I was the most important person in their lives for those early years. Of course I’d know them.

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    • Dylan says

      She would have to be the most trusting person in the world lol trusted Peter because of his eyes.

      Oh well, nice to see that her relationship with Walter is better.

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  2. Pwnsauce says

    It would appear the other side is in worse shape from the shapeshifters than the blue universe. Walternate in this timeline appears at the moment to be a much less evil character, but as he said “not everything is as it seems.” I can’t say I’m ready to fully trust him just yet.

    I guess Jones got to Broyles. I really would like to know who was in those tanks next to Jones. This was a really really good episode. The wait was well worth it.

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    • debo0775 says

      I’d imagine that the “people” in the tanks are members of an army of yet-to-be-assigned shapeshifters.

      Overall, I thought this was a pretty solid episode. It’s a shame we didn’t get to see it in its proper setting as a fall finale, but it seems to be a solid opener to this half of the season as well.

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      • runthegamut says

        I’m almost glad we didn’t have 2 months to stew over this ep. Wallflower was a downer to go out on, but this just had so much momentum, I’m glad we only have until next week.

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    • Dylan says

      Do we think it’s AltBroyles or do we think that it’s shapeshifter-AltBroyles? I am curious about that one.

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  3. Ben says

    As I hoped, this is the episode we’ve been waiting for. It started with Peter’s very human needs and drives, and from there opened out into a story that uses all the Fringe elements in a thrilling way. The only thing missing was Scarlie.

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  4. Hatch says

    I goes without saying at this point, but John Noble is just incredible. I kept wondering just what in the hell he was about to do with that tech in his hand. Such a suspenseful scene. And then, “You’re exactly the man I always thought you’d be” or thereabouts…man, that almost had me tearing up.

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  5. Mari says

    For the first time I did feel sorry for Walternt, he reminds me Walter from our timeline… This was a very good episode, it realy was! I think now things goin to be more dynamic, and we finaly gonna have some answers. This episode makes me happy!!! Love Fringe being back!!!!
    Ps: sorry for my english

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    • fedorafadares says

      Your English is great! I agree, it seems like there’s going to be a lot of action coming up…finally!!!

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    • Steph says

      Agreed with your comment Mari that Walternate reminded me of Walter from the normal timeline! fanastic episode but only bad thing was that it ended too soon and now we have to wait a whole week for the next. I just hope Peter returns home soon missing our fringies!

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      • Maris says

        True, it was really fast episode! The impression that pass is that Walternate been so, I don’t know, “human”, it for make us believe that we are realy in other timeline. I never imagined be sorry or emotive with Walternate.

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  6. Darth Kate says

    this whole alternate timeline thing has opened up so many plot holes it’s ridiculous.
    First off, the machine shouldn’t exist at all in this timeline, but ill get to that later. Following with what the writers have set up, in the very first episode of the season olivia said that the altverse still kidnapped her and stole her life. Why? i get that there must still have been a reason to send fauxliv over to retrieve the pieces of the machine, but why keep liv alive if nobody is aware that she can cross over? Knowing walternate’s character he would have had no qualms about killing her if she was of no use. furthermore, who busted fauxlivia if peter wasn’t around? and, how was the machine activated without liv’s powers and peter’s dna? and finally, why does the machine exist at all? in our timeline it’s existence hinged on a loop created when the “first people” sent it back in time before it was discovered, thus creating a bootstrap paradox. if peter doesn’t exist in this timeline, and won’t make that choice to destory the other universe, then that future will never happen. If the machine will never be sent back in time through the ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL wormhole in central park (which, if you remember, only existed as a result of our world’s degradation due to peter’s choice to destroy the alt-verse), then it cannot exist now, because it never got to the past in the first place. to make make matters worse, peter kept saying that walter built the machine, which makes no sense at all. it never needed a physical origin. it exists now because, in the future, it was sent back to a time before it was recovered by our heroes. It’s entire existence should hinge on that loop. there was no need for him to build the machine (in our timeline) because it already existed due to the loop.

    people tend to shrug me off when i try to explain this, so if you have no idea of what i just said: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bootstrap_paradox

    Also, is anyone else bothered by the fact that peter seems to have absolutely no problem obstructing the alt-timeline peoples’ efforts to fix their universes just so he can get home. just because he doesn’t belong there doesn’t make the billions of people in this timeline any less worthy of living.

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    • Darth Kate says

      just to summarize:

      -the machine never should have existed in this new timeline because peter never existed and the future which enabled the machine to exist is no longer valid.

      -when we get back to our timeline, the machine should have dissapeared because the future which enabled it’s existence is no longer valid. (this will technically be another paradox since the universes could not have been merged if the machine never existed, but i would find it more acceptable than the crap they are trying to pull now. They could claim that the event of merging the universes created a new timeline, but this time keep the characters aware of it because they all had direct involvement or something. That would be a stretch but it would allow them to move on with the plot. Basically the writers have just screwed themselves into oblivion with this one)

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      • drewkal says

        Arrgh……
        merging timelines and universes sems to always create paradoxes. I understand the point you’re trying to make, but I accept that the timeline with the machine still exists, in at least one of the universes. Or Peter is in his own timeline and universe, able to exist in both that we know, and his indepenyl. Lonely place, but that seems to fit him right now. Knowing Peter’s past adventures with crossing over, being mixed up is not out of the realm of possibility.
        I’m really happy to see where the writers take the show to us of now.
        they’re not scientists, really, they’re really good story tellers.
        Let’s listen to the story.
        don’t worry, be happy
        you or I couldn’t produce this any other way
        so, what we se is what we get, est

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      • says

        This is how I rationalize the BBM’s existence: Walter mentions in the S3 finale that he created (or thinks he created) the BBM and sent it into the wormhole. Thus creating a Paradox. The Machine itself became a constant. No matter what universe, or what timeline, there will be a BBM. This was all Walter babble, and I haven’t watched the finale since the early fall, so forgive me if I’ve missed a step :-)

        We don’t know how the two sides in this timeline came upon the BBM. So just as we saw (much to my chagrin) Walternate found a way to trick the BBM into thinking Peter was activating it with Baby Bishop’s blood last Season, who knows what either side has done with there respective BBMs.

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        • Gary says

          You should the comics beyond the fringe. Its explains how the machine works and if give us a hint why olivia needs to die..

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            • Penny Laine (formerly alexis) says

              Only the A series explains the machine, right? 3A came out about a month ago and closes the story arc, it’s the last of the 3 that JJ wrote and those 3 alone explain it all, I think.

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        • Dylan says

          “he created (or thinks he created) the BBM and sent it into the wormhole. Thus creating a Paradox.”

          he never states that he built it. he states that he believes that he is responsible for sending the machine back through time via the wormhole, creating a paradox.

          The whole idea of him having built it came out of nowhere, and there is nothing outside season 4 (which is the problem itself), which supports it.

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            • Dylan says

              I don’t read the comics, and shouldn’t have to (the idea is the comics should compliment the series and can include things that won’t impact the series). Might read them after the series is done perhaps.

              In the context of the show, there is nothing to support the idea that Walter built the machine, unfortunately.

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              • g33k says

                I thought you would have wanted to read them for the insight they give you to the story. Are you telling me you’re going to keep posting and debating your points and yet NOT read the canon story, even though it may be a different format, to base your points on? You’ve always impressed upon me as well researched in your discussions even though we may disagree on some things. I kinda wish you’d read them just because its a big part of the story you’re missing and you like to post on this story a lot. :/

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                • Dylan says

                  My point is that one shouldn’t need to read the comics in order to understand the series. The series should be able to stand on its own.

                  Other media is just…added topping. It improves, but is not necessary.

                  Like I said, I’ll get around to it someday.

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            • Dylan says

              Yeah, and that’s the problem. What is making him think that? I’ve quoted and re-quoted the dialogue in the third act of ‘The Day We Died’, and nothing supports what he is saying in season 4.

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          • mlj102 says

            “The whole idea of him having built it came out of nowhere, and there is nothing outside season 4 (which is the problem itself), which supports it.”

            Perhaps I have missed something, but I don’t think there has ever been anything said/shown to establish that Walter DIDN’T build the machine (aside from Walter’s initial retort when Peter first mentioned it to him in… Novation(?). And I think that could easily be dismissed by various explanations, including this Walter doesn’t realize he made it, or he was just being defensive). I don’t understand the whole uproar over the possibility that Walter built the machine. Why couldn’t he be the one who built it? He never states that he didn’t build it, and they never established for certain who built it — it’s always been a mystery — so why can’t we just accept Peter’s claims in Season 4 as him understanding more of the background of the machine than we do, and presenting it as new information? Peter essentially said he and others were the first people, they took the machine back in time. It doesn’t seem like too far of a stretch from there to accept that in some previous timeline, Walter built the machine, took it back in time, and thus initiated the recurring loop of the machine being found, then taken back in time. They even established that the machine was designed based on William Bell’s methods. That seems to confirm that the design and the concept came from someone very close to Walter. It would make sense for Walter to have built/helped to have built the machine since Walter and William worked together and would share similar techniques and they collaborated on many (most all) of their projects. It also seems to have been designed especially for Peter. That seems like the kind of thing Walter could do. Why not?

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    • Darth Kate says

      My epic rant is has been in moderation for eleven hours now so im gonna re post it and pray it actually shows up because people are responding to my sub-post before reading the actual one. READ THIS BEFORE COMMENTING ON MY “SUMMARY” COMMENT. Here it is:

      this whole alternate timeline thing has opened up so many plot holes it’s ridiculous.
      First off, the machine shouldn’t exist at all in this timeline, but ill get to that later. Following with what the writers have set up, in the very first episode of the season olivia said that the altverse still kidnapped her and stole her life. Why? i get that there must still have been a reason to send fauxliv over to retrieve the pieces of the machine, but why keep liv alive if nobody is aware that she can cross over? Knowing walternate’s character he would have had no qualms about killing her if she was of no use. furthermore, who busted fauxlivia if peter wasn’t around? and, how was the machine activated without liv’s powers and peter’s dna? and finally, why does the machine exist at all? in our timeline it’s existence hinged on a loop created when the “first people” sent it back in time before it was discovered, thus creating a bootstrap paradox. if peter doesn’t exist in this timeline, and won’t make that choice to destory the other universe, then that future will never happen. If the machine will never be sent back in time through the ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL wormhole in central park (which, if you remember, only existed as a result of our world’s degradation due to peter’s choice to destroy the alt-verse), then it cannot exist now, because it never got to the past in the first place. to make make matters worse, peter kept saying that walter built the machine, which makes no sense at all. it never needed a physical origin. it exists now because, in the future, it was sent back to a time before it was recovered by our heroes. It’s entire existence should hinge on that loop. there was no need for him to build the machine (in our timeline) because it already existed due to the loop.

      Also, is anyone else bothered by the fact that peter seems to have absolutely no problem obstructing the alt-timeline peoples’ efforts to fix their universes just so he can get home. just because he doesn’t belong there doesn’t make the billions of people in this timeline any less worthy of living.

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      • JM says

        @Darth Kate
        Normally i disagree with much of what you write (i hope you take no offence at that) but i find myself completely in agreement with you. Now not to say this episode wasnt excellent (because it was, YES listen to that positive camp people I liked an episode) But the plot holes are catching up with the show and they have GOT to start explaining soon.

        IMO how the machine got turned and the bridge got created in this world without Peter should have been explained in the season premiere, and it seemed in the premiere..which i believe was set a few weeks after the season 3 finale, no one seemed to give a sh*t that the universes were bridged, and suddenly everything was hunky dory between universes (i know thats an exaggeration BUT still!) then there solving cases together in 4.02, and i remember ROCO saying the notion of that so soon is just ridiculous! Instead of giving us completely on the nose dialogue about peters non-existence we should have had an explanation!

        Coming to the machine. Peter/Joshua Jackson does NOT write lines for himself, so if he is continually saying that walter built the machine, obviously the writers have decided this is what happened, unfortunately with FRINGE throughout its run, the writers seem to decide on things as they go, so theres no real hints or lead up to it (except in 3.22 i suppose..) So i think this is a classic example of the writers deciding on a very important piece of mythology and planting it in there hoping no one will notice that they changed it, the whole first people thing needs to be explained (and i doubt it will be considering now olivia will have a breakdown about dying, and then she’ll lean on lincoln and well…NUFF said i dread thinking about it) but they simply need a season 5 in order to explain everything properly.

        OK rant over, i hope that makes sense! i cant be bothered to read it through

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        • Darth Kate says

          i largely agree, but as a minor complaint i never blamed joshua jackson for his dialogue. im totally aware that it’s incompetent writing and i was simply pointing out the logical failings of the dialogue itself.

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          • Darth Kate says

            i guess my point is that the writers have set up a certain type of time loop without actually realizing it or knowing how it is supposed to work. then they just expect us to accept all of the changes they’ve made without any explanation.

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      • Lincless says

        I’m also displeased.
        The episode was fairly entertaining, not doubts there. But it’s getting ridiculous.

        These people (Olivia and Lincoln) realize they use the mechanism that destroyed both universes in the first place? Yes, but they did it to help Peter. A person Olivia couldn’t even look at a few episodes ago.
        And Peter’s mother looks like his sister. If you can’t afford an older look anymore, stop making a series.

        Otherwise the episode was ok. Just plot hole over plot hole over plot hole….

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        • J.P. says

          “These people (Olivia and Lincoln) realize they use the mechanism that destroyed both universes in the first place? Yes, but they did it to help Peter. A person Olivia couldn’t even look at a few episodes ago.
          And Peter’s mother looks like his sister. If you can’t afford an older look anymore, stop making a series.”

          Those things really bothered me, too. Wasn’t one of the largest storylines on the show the idea that either side couldn’t cross over using “traditional” methods, such as Walter’s old device, because it could permanently destroy both universes? Peter of all people should know that, yet he seemed perfectly fine with it. The more I think about that storyline, the more I notice holes.
          And yes, the Elizabeth thing was annoying. She looked just like she did in “Peter” or “Subject 13″, making Walternate look 20 years too old for her. Hey, maybe Peter’s death in this timeline has prolonged her graying hair… ?

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          • number six says

            The hole Peter and Lincoln created closed immediately afterwards. Peter’s bridge stopped the decay in the universes and apparently it’s healing any new damage. I wonder if it’s slowly healing the decay, too. Anyway, Peter must have known that, but there is no way Olivia could and yet she was contemplating crossing over that way.

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            • Lincless says

              Nice thoughts.
              I don’t mind them using that technology, categorically. But I expected some discussions or at least a mention of a potential risk.
              If they mention it not even once, I just think the writers forgot what they established before and that’s generally not a good sign.

              But I don’t want to sound too negativ. The episode was a step in the right direction and Jones promisses to be interessting.

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      • Ian Smyth says

        Peter doesn’t really care, you’re right, and that’s because he is trying to not get attached to anyone here. He just wants to go home. However, he will end up helping everyone.

        And, to all your other comments, “not everything is as it seems”. We don’t know everything about this new world and there will be a perfect answer to everything. I believe all the universes and timelines are linked, and part of me believes more now that this new ‘timeline’ is actually a third universe (especially after Elizabeth said ‘there’s got to be more’ universes).

        I think the writers are throwing us a lot of red herrings to distract us so we don’t figure out what’s really going to happen. I also think Peter might need David Robert Jones to get back to his old world.

        We’re 8 episodes in, just be patient and answers will come.

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        • Darth Kate says

          i get that he doesn’t want to get attached, what i have a problem with is that he has no problem JEOPARDIZING their efforts to heal their worlds in favor of his own personal interests. unfamiliar or not, billions of lives hang in the balance and he has no right to screw them over.

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          • Scully8 says

            DK . .. remember when we first meet Peter that was his steelo–he only cared about himself. This is basically Peter reverting to that thinking because he is so much wants to get home. I get it . . . although he’s definitely a more mature version of himself, he is also alone and must survive in a place where no one knows him or really care anything about (other than Elizabeth). I would want to get the heck out of dodge too. However, because Peter has matured and has the capacity to care, he will end up becoming attached to these people which will make his choice to go back to the original timeline (if it still exist) a more emotional choice. Just my take on it . . . I’m truly excited for the next batch of episodes. Well, other than the Olivia/Lincoln crap–still not a fan of that relationship, but it is what it is. :)

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        • Darth Kate says

          yeah, no duh. you’ve missed the entire point of what i was trying to say. You cannot just say “it’s a paradox” and then make a bunch of crap up. even paradoxes have a certain logic to them. whether the writers know it or not, they’ve created a vary specific type of paradox (bootstrap) and it has certain characteristics, which they are outright ignoring.

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          • g33k says

            Considering they are writing their own tv show is there no way that they can’t write their own new kind of paradox?

            I just wonder if saying it has to be a certain type of paradox would just limit what their main goal is i.e. telling a certain story, so why not create a new kind of paradox?

            Some scientific theory is still very theoretical (don’t flame me! I’m not saying the evolutionary theory isn’t evidenced by soooooo many historical and genetic discoveries, far from it!) and we’re still working out how the universe works, so why is it that you don’t think the writers should some leeway on the make up of the paradox in their own story?

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            • Darth Kate says

              guys. MY POINT is that the paradox they have created makes no semblance of sense at all. Of course it’s their story and they’re the writers and they can technically do whatever they want. BUT!! that doesn’t automatically validate it or mean that i should be forced to accept it with no explaination, especially when it is so convoluted and illogical. if you still have a problem with my theory, go look up the bootstrap paradox. im not just pulling this stuff out of my butt.

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            • Dylan says

              “Considering they are writing their own tv show is there no way that they can’t write their own new kind of paradox?”

              That’s the situation where one makes up their own concept, rather than use one that’s already established. They called it a ‘paradox’, therefore they must operate around the established concept.

              Having not done that, is both a betrayal of the original concept and a certainly fine way to confuse your audience.

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              • g33k says

                Agree to disagree with you there. :-) Kate IS saying there are different types of paradoxes, you’re saying they’re violating ‘paradox’ in general now? IMHO Don’t think they’re violating anything.

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                • Darth Kate says

                  there ARE different types of paradoxes but they set up a SPECIFIC one and then screwed around with it until it was just a big pile of b.s.

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                  • Dylan says

                    Sorry, didn’t finish my original sentence.

                    It should read “There’s only one kind of temporal paradox that they’re referencing”, and that is the ‘bootstrap paradox’.

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    • hsatwood@bryancave.com says

      I loved this episode, but I need help understanding all of the comments regardinmg holes in the plot. The BBM existed in the red universe in the original timeline even though Peter was living in the blue universe. In this timeline, in both universes, Peter died when he was a child. How does that differ from being removed from the red universe as a child in the original timeline?

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      • Darth Kate says

        The best way to explain my problem i think is to break it down by timeline.

        FIRST TIMELINE:My theory regarding the machines existence in the redverse during the original timeline hinges on the fact that the BBM was sent back in time (by peter, walter and co.) 200 million years ago, BEFORE the very emergence of humanity. This is absolutely key!! creatures of sub human intelligence (animals, and early links in our evolutionary chain) don’t “make decisions” per say. they simply react on instinct. if humans were not around to make those complex decisions, i theorize that there may not have been a multiverse yet. so, because the BBM pre-dates the multiverse and existed along a linear timeline for millions of years, it would naturally be present in every subsequent universe once humans emerged and creating those branching verses with their choices. This explains why there’s a BBM in the other universe as well as why the “crowbar” drawing was over there even though it couldn’t possibly apply to fauxlivia since she wasn’t treated with cortexiphan. and THAT all makes sense to me.Where i begin to take issue is in the new timeline:

        NEW TIMELINE: since peter never survived to choose the future in which the machine was sent back (by destroying the other side), i don’t think it makes sense that the BBM exists in this timeline. The machine was sent back through a wormhole in central park which emerged as a result of the blue verses degradation after the red verse was destroyed. If the red verse wasn’t destroyed, then that wormhole will never appear and the machine cannot be sent through it, thus negating it’s present existence.

        that’s my problem anyway. if you’re still confused go look up bootstrap paradox.

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        • Darth Kate says

          I know everyone’s getting sick of me nagging, but i just dont see the reason for having peter “dissapear” from our timeline at all. so far there has been no worthwhile explanation and i’m getting kinda sick of waiting. if they had had the machine dissapear (as a result of that future being cancelled out by peters choice) and then just continued trying to fix the universes (y’know, the main conflict) i would not be complaining so much. It just feels like filler at this point.

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        • g33k says

          “My theory regarding the machines existence in the redverse during the original timeline hinges on the fact that the BBM was sent back in time (by peter, walter and co.) 200 million years ago, BEFORE the very emergence of humanity. This is absolutely key!!”

          Ok well about this, if you haven’t read the comic yet, (which is canon according to Josh Jackson who wrote it AND the producers, of which certain events were even mentioned in this last episode) then I think you should because the machine events you say are key are explained in there. So all I’ll say is, um, YES and NO for your time above because its kind of spoilerish for those that haven’t read them.

          ROCO: maybe there should be a blog posting for the comics where we can discuss it without tippy toeing around spoilers for others? THANKS!

          “The machine was sent back through a wormhole in central park which emerged as a result of the blue verses degradation after the red verse was destroyed. If the red verse wasn’t destroyed, then that wormhole will never appear”

          I think you are making a pure assumption that the wormhole showed up as a result of the destroyed red universe. Why can’t the wormhole have showed up because the machine’s existence created a paradox that created a wormhole, or because Peter’s existence caused the wormhole (um, all I’ll say for why is read the comics again) or for any other reasons besides the red universe being destroyed or the degradation of the blue universe because the red’s gone. Its entirely possible that the wormhole is just another separate symptom of the root problem (as the universe breaking down is another symptom), which I don’t think even the observers understand yet so who knows what that is.

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          • Darth Kate says

            the whole crisis in the future episode was that our world was massively degrading because of the destruction of the other universe, so i think it’s safe to say that that is what caused the wormhole. i’m just connecting the dots here.

            also, im not going to read the comics. if the showrunners can’t properly explain the plot of their own show WITHIN the actual show then too bad for them. Im not going to go out and spend money on another medium just to figure out what the hell is going on in a tv show.

            so please, explain specifically what plot points i seem to be missing in my theory that the comics explain.

            Like: Thumb up 0

            • g33k says

              I will only explain in greater detail what was in the comics if there will be a posting created specifically for them because i’m sure it would be considered a spoiler for everyone else reading this thread and would be blanked out anyway because it would discourage ppl from supporting the show by buying the comic.

              FYI for anyone reading this who does want to read the comic, you only have to get 3 issues to get the canon stuff (1a, 1b and 1c), they are only .99 cents us each from DC comics. They are online comics so you can read them from any computer. Too bad you don’t want to read them, they had the freedom to tell the story they wanted in the medium without production constraints on budget, but if you’re a TV only gal *shrug*. Who knows – maybe they always knew it could only be done via comic medium in the first place and fully intended to do the story this way whether or not they had perfect ratings at their disposal. They’ve published comics the whole length of the show. I can’t see any tv show being able to afford what they executed in the comics on a typical budget.

              And yes, you’re making a pure assumption about the wormhole being directly related to degradation from a destroyed universe, so we disagree there.

              Like: Thumb up 2

              • says

                LSD wasn’t a fan favorite because it was a cartoon episode (I loved the episode myself.) What makes you think buying the comic book will go over big ?

                Like: Thumb up 2

                • g33k says

                  Its not about the comics ‘going over big’ its about people who post without knowing the whole story that’s related to what they post about, and refuse to find out. We’re working on two different levels of information about the story and there’s no way around it.

                  Like: Thumb up 1

                • ApplesBananasRhinoceros says

                  It’s just a TV show, in the end (although a really really awesome one!!). Suspend your disbelief for 60 minutes and just go with it.

                  Like: Thumb up 3

                  • Darth Kate says

                    that’s not how suspension of disbelief works my friend. it’s not a get out of jail free card for blatant debilitating plot contrivances. that kind of attitude is exactly why so much of entertainment sucks today, because people don’t care that they’re being spoon-fed a load of crap and they just sit there and take it. I am not one of those people! if you don’t agree with me fine, but be on your merry way, because i am not changing my mind.

                    Like: Thumb up 1

                  • g33k says

                    fyi, that was in response to Darth Kate’s comment:
                    “if you dont want to follow the blatant evidence then fine.”

                    Like: Thumb up 2

        • mlj102 says

          Perhaps I’m only adding fuel to the flame, but I’m going to respond anyway. Let me also preface my comment by saying that I don’t want to get too involved in this matter. And I’ll admit here and now that I’m not an expert in Quantum Mechanics. Though to be perfectly honest, I don’t think fans of the show are expected to be experts, nor do I think the logic of the story being told depends on having a vast background of knowledge on the subject…

          “since peter never survived to choose the future in which the machine was sent back (by destroying the other side), i don’t think it makes sense that the BBM exists in this timeline.”

          Bottom line: I don’t understand your problem because that’s exactly what Walter explained to Peter in The Day We Died, and it’s also stated in your previous comment. Walter essentially said that the act of sending the machine back in time is a constant. It is certain to happen again because he has already done it. That couldn’t be changed. All that could be changed was to make a different choice within that action – for Peter to do something different with the machine. So he did, but the machine would still exist because it existed before, independent of Peter’s existence. It had already been sent back in time, so it would already be there when Peter no longer existed. In addition, you said: “so, because the BBM pre-dates the multiverse and existed along a linear timeline for millions of years, it would naturally be present in every subsequent universe once humans emerged” According to your theory, the machine was sent back far enough in time that it would be present in every possible reality created by choices. It was already there, independent of anything else. I actually really liked your explanation about it being sent back so far in time for a reason. That all made a lot of sense. So I don’t understand why you are having a hard time making it make sense.

          Like: Thumb up 2

  7. J.P. says

    Well here we go…

    First off, the best episode of the season. Easily. It was fast-paced, tense, dramatic and actually interesting. Everything I’ve hoped this season would be. That being said, I found a couple of problems with it, most of which are just let-down expectations — seeing more of Mr. Jones, getting deeper into the Olivia-Nina plot line, some more trans-dimensional interplay as this was very much an Other Side episode, and having the Observer’s warning not be the predictable “you will have to die”.
    My largest problem with the story itself was in the scene between Peter and Olivia in her apartment, during which they discuss allowing Peter to cross over. Olivia at first acts suspicious of Peter, sending very clear hints she wouldn’t help him, before suddenly acting like they’re a team who’ve just concocted a master plan when Lincoln runs in. When Peter suggests they use Lincoln as a means to infiltrate the Other Side, Olivia doesn’t even say “let’s stop and think about this”, she instead says “yeah, that could work”, and instantly agrees to it. It didn’t make any sense to me, in regards to how she was acting just before that, but because they included the teases that the injections have been affecting her mind in some way, I guess I can write it off as something yet to be dealt with.

    This episode felt like an entirely different show. If I were to watch “Back To Where You’ve Never Been” immediately after “Wallflower”, the pace would jump from zero to one hundred within minutes. A totally different piece from the previous seven episodes. If this means the remainder of the season will follow suit, then I’m game. But, it’s also disappointing to realize the previous episodes could have been at least nearly as good, just if they told different, grander stories. I do worry that we’re going to be stuck in this new timeline for a very long time, which I’m not that thrilled about. I’ve got a feeling that the “will Peter get home” storyline will be just as drawn-out and tiresome as the previous “will Peter return” storyline, albeit much longer than four episodes.

    Either way, I thought it was a solid episode. Laid some good groundwork for what’s yet to come. I’m disappointed in a few things, but overall I’m much happier with this episode than those prior. I’ve got some hope for Fringe, yet.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 11

    • JM says

      I think olivia acted strangely in that scene because it came to her while talking to peter that his crossing over could benefit them, and then she told lincoln after peter had left to try and get peter to tell him where that DOD stuff was in the alternate universe

      Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 15

      • JM says

        @J.P
        Ive decided to post my comment here, so as to have both our comments in one place and them both be positive! YAY!

        BEST episode of the season, by far, one of the best episodes of fringe overall, really fast paced, acting great, WALTERNATE was in it, i dont really have anything bad to say about it.

        OK i was just looking at david furys twitter comments for the live tweeting during this episode, and hes basically just confirmed theirs gonna be a love triangle between peter olivia and lincoln, WHY FRINGE, WHY, after you’ve just given me a great episodes aghhh!

        Like: Thumb up 7

        • says

          “OK i was just looking at david furys twitter comments for the live tweeting during this episode, and hes basically just confirmed theirs gonna be a love triangle between peter olivia and lincoln, WHY FRINGE, WHY, after you’ve just given me a great episodes aghhh!”

          You have got to be kidding me! Look, hasn’t Peter gone out of the way to make it clear that he just doesn’t rats arse about trying to recreate relationships? Not to say that there would not be some sort of overlapping of emotions, but for the love of all things holy! Did absolutely no one here the unified protests of the collective fandom last year? No more love triangles!

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9

          • JM says

            TV Guide Magazine: You mentioned the emotion of the show, and in the last episode, there were clearly seeds of an Olivia-Lincoln situation being planted.
            Wyman: That’s true. That was our intention. Don’t forget, Peter has his Olivia. So this Olivia is an incredible lure, but also a painful memory of what he’s lost. Lincoln and Olivia are both available, and there is a relationship there that could be possible…but you have to keep watching. We’re glad you picked up on that.

            TV Guide Magazine: Well I just imagine the pain it will cause Peter to see something like that develop, knowing his Olivia is somewhere without him.
            Wyman: That’s it, right! Then he starts to wonder, “Am I ever going to get home?”

            Like: Thumb up 1

            • JM says

              With that and david furys tweet, there can be no doubt. There actually going there guys, there ACTUALLY going there. HELLO “PECOLNIVIA”!

              Like: Thumb up 3

              • number six says

                They will never learn, will they? Since when have they done a romance right in this show? Now they’re going for another trite triangle? Shouldn’t they focus on the mythology and stop with the shipping nonsense?

                And I must ask, because this part gets me, must every single romantic plot involve Olivia? Isn’t she enough of a Mary Sue already, that they have to emphasize that with every suitable male falling for her? If they absolutely must do romance, why not give it to Astrid for once? OY!

                Like: Thumb up 7

                • says

                  I left that comment on another post awhile back. Give Astrid a life outside of Fringe if their must be more world building. Truthfully, there have been times when I’ve felt that Peter has been a glutton for punishment in his pursuit of Olivia. Then there’s Astrid, the one person that’s as close (if not closer) to his father than he is, and we’ve never seen him ask her to grab drinks after a hard case. Peter has a lot on his plate and of the entire Fringe team I vote Astrid as the most patient of them all. She’s also a good listener, has a sense of humor, and doesn’t spend her entire day mopping around all the time.

                  Even though I firmly believe Fringe should take a PERMANENT hiatus from relationship story arcs, can’t the writers decide that Peter needs a best friend named Astrid? That every Olivia, in every universe, and every timeline needs to define herself outside of a relationship and do some deep soul searching? That if Lincoln must stick around, that he develops a crush on Astrid, but keeps it TO HIMSELF in an effort to stay professional— and keep me from gagging?

                  If Fringe really wants shake things up they can certainly start by acting like Astrid is more than background character.

                  Like: Thumb up 7

                  • number six says

                    The truth is that I’m very annoyed that Peter has been reduced to his relationship with Olivia. He used to have “weird connections”, he’s a fun, friendly guy and yet we’ve only seen him mooning over Olivia more and more every passing season. It is not that he’s in love with Olivia, the writers want that pairing? That’s alright, but why not, as you say, ask Astrid out? They are good friends, were, sorry, I forgot that is moot in this timeline. They conspired together, they took care of Walter together, they shared jokes, she made a pie for him! Why haven’t we seen them outside the circle of Walter or Olivia?

                    Where was Jasika Nicole this episode, by the way? Was that a blink and you’ll miss it AltAstrid cameo?

                    Like: Thumb up 5

                • ApplesBananasRhinoceros says

                  I still secretly want a Peter/Astrid relationship, maybe in this timeline I could get a little hint of it??

                  Like: Thumb up 2

              • Schwakamole says

                “Lincoln and Olivia are both available, and there is a relationship there that could be possible…but you have to keep watching.” Here’s what I read from that…they have planted the seeds for for a POSSIBLE realtionship but it won’t reach culmination. That won’t mean that the possibility of it won’t bother Peter.

                Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 11

                • Schwakamole says

                  I would also like to add that this is a show about relationships. It’s told in a cool context but it’s still a show about relationships. So it would be stilted and not complete if it didn’t include romantic relationships alongside platonic ones. Let’s be real people.

                  Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 14

        • Schwakamole says

          Really?! You call J.P.’s comment “positive”? Because he wrote exactly 28 words before he launched into what he didn’t like about the episode. And your comment contained an equal amount of negative as positive. This is you guys being positive??! I just think that’s pretty funny.

          Like: Thumb up 5

          • JM says

            LOL, look alright its a significant upgrade from our previous comments alright! dont expect us to start singing the shows praises again straightaway!

            Like: Thumb up 2

          • J.P. says

            Our comments are tremendously more positive than those previous. You can’t dispute that at all. Yes, I did jump into my disappointments very quickly, just because that’s the way that I write… I then went back to what I liked the most about this episode: the change of pace.
            So yes, this is “us guys” being positive. It’s going to take a little while before we respond as positively and excitedly as the others on this site, if that ever happens.

            Like: Thumb up 3

          • Dylan says

            Can we discuss the show thanks, and not other users (as per the comment policy).

            Would be much appreciated.

            Like: Thumb up 3

        • g33k says

          hehe What if the love triangle is actually Orangeverse Olivia and Peter fighting for Lincoln’s allegiance to their cause? Bromance vs Romance! Let the battle begin!

          Like: Thumb up 1

    • g33k says

      “Olivia doesn’t even say “let’s stop and think about this”, she instead says “yeah, that could work”, and instantly agrees to it. It didn’t make any sense to me,”

      Well when she pulled out the Massive Dynamic requisition form wasn’t it already filled out to ask for Walter’s old door? Peter said “what’s 317″ and she explained it was the door. She obviously had it filled out before Peter had arrived to ask her.

      To me that shows orangeverse Olivia had been thinking about going to the other universe with the door for a long time. She was just too headached and sick to. And then Lincoln walks in, the guy she trusts to act in her interests on the other side and sooooo…

      So I didn’t find it strange at all, I thought the form established her previous motivation to go to the other side with the door.

      Like: Thumb up 3

      • J.P. says

        “Well when she pulled out the Massive Dynamic requisition form wasn’t it already filled out to ask for Walter’s old door? Peter said “what’s 317″ and she explained it was the door. She obviously had it filled out before Peter had arrived to ask her.”

        Yes, which I guess makes sense. But that wasn’t the crux of my problem. The crux was that she jumped from not wanting to help him to then saying “yeah, that could work” as if they’d been working up a plan but encountered one problem along the way. It was just an annoying line, is all. But as I said before, either the injections, or more likely, her ulterior motives for sending them to the Other Side could very well explain the inconsistency.

        Like: Thumb up 1

  8. Hatch says

    So, who do we think shot September? Has he been marked for death by the other Observers for failing to erase Peter?

    Like: Thumb up 7

    • says

      Here’s an idea…

      September said he had examined every future. We saw at the end of S3 that Walternate shoots Olivia it he head during Peter’s jump forward into the future. What if September sustained his injury from a different version of the future in which he took the bullet for someone? If we are to take September’s warning literally–for the sake of this theory–let’s just say he took a bullet to save Peter, but Olivia still died.

      Forgive me if I overlooked a detail from S1 thru S3, but I was more taken with the sight of September’s red blood. I think i remember the alleged “rogue observer” having red blood, but I don’t recall ever seeing another Observer bleed before. I am going to need more Observer backstory, STAT!

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9

      • JM says

        David fury also tweeted that we would be finding out more about why september was shot in the episode the “end of all things”

        Like: Thumb up 2

          • fedorafadares says

            I’m guessing September intended to get shot, since he could have avoided it. August decided to die in order to make the girl he loved “important,” maybe September is taking a page from August’s book.

            This leads me to wonder: does he love Peter, who in a way is September’s “creation?” Or does he love Olivia because (and here’s a big leap) Olivia connected with him when he was a child Observer back in season 1?

            Like: Thumb up 5

    • Dylan says

      Better yet; why didn’t September catch the bullet? Is he trying to be another August and have himself intentionally shot?

      Like: Thumb up 1

  9. Darth Kate says

    you know what else? the observer’s little “reveal” was ridiculous. everyone who watched the promo knew that’s what he was going to say and it’s completely meaningless. they’ve pulled the “sort of kill olivia for shock value” shtick before and it’s no more convincing this time. They’re never going to permanently kill OUR olivia. For one, they don’t have the balls, and even if they did it would be stupid and completely unnecessary. Anna is the darling of the fanbase and there wouldn’t be a show without her (or john or josh for that matter). furthermore they gave away the jones reveal weeks ago in promo pics and he was even in the official hype promo. there was literally nothing of value here. PLEASE tell me i’m not the only person severely dissapointed by this.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 21

    • J.P. says

      “PLEASE tell me i’m not the only person severely dissapointed by this.”

      Trust me, you’re not.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8

        • number six says

          You get bonus points and licorice. I saw that posted in other places afterwards, which goes to show how unimpressive that cliffhanger is.

          The thing that gets me is that September disappeared from our screens, when he refused to delete Peter completely. Instead of showing us the consequences of that, he simply reappears to make a revelation that has nothing to do with his actions in the season premiere. Am I the only one feeling a disconnect here?

          Besides, what’s the point of that revelation? Is he a sadist? “You’re going to die no matter what, lol!”

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8

          • Schwakamole says

            I think the only thing this tells us is that September is not very good at his job. He botched the whole finding-the-cure thing when Peter was a boy. He tried to erase Peter and it didn’t work. Then he was told to do it correctly and decided not to. Now he’s telling Olivia that she has to die. Which sounds to me like in order to cover his own ass and make things right, she has to die. He was probably shot by another observer for being so stinkin’ incompetent.

            Like: Thumb up 6

          • Penny Laine (formerly alexis) says

            I think the message was actually intended for Peter. And I don’t think the reveal was so ridiculous…. He didn’t just say that she would die, as in Amber Olivia is going to die, but that he had seen every possible future and in every one she ends up dying. Which means that in every possible iteration the outcome is the same for every Blue Olivia, which means there’s nothing Peter can do to save her. I don’t know how Peter is going to emotionally work his way around that piece of news, but I presume he’ll keep trying to go back to his timeline. But his sacrifice (the reset) was partially in vain: the two universes might have a shot at peace, but Olivia’s future remains unaltered.

            Of course they are not going to kill off the leading character, I imagine that if Olivia were to really die it would be the last scene of the last episode, but I hope there’s some hole on what September said he’d witnessed!

            Like: Thumb up 6

  10. Sean says

    This episode was… stunningly good. Aside from maaaaybe a few comments on pacing I could make, I really just loved every moment of this. Not to mention what was going on in the background – tonight, Fringe fans lit up the web. This was a night to be proud of on both sides.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 18

  11. MISSNETT says

    I liked the episode! Still trying to wrap my brain around everything! I too thought Olivia was acting weird when Peter first went to her for help. Of course after watching a first season ep. this week it just showed me how much I do miss the dynamics of that season. Waiting to rewatch tomorrow and maybe Roco’s review before I process everything!

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 11

  12. FinChase says

    So who shot September? Someone who didn’t want him to talk to Olivia? It wasn’t a warning he was giving her–save yourself! It was more like he was more like he was telling her that she needs to prepare herself to sacrifice her life, like she has a choice, and he believes she must make the correct one.

    Like: Thumb up 3

  13. T says

    Good episode. Gave it an 8.

    Like others I was dissapointed by the Olivia/Observer scene. Considering how much they hyped it, that was way to predictable.

    Like: Thumb up 5

  14. Niomi Lianne says

    OUR BELOVED FRINGE IS BACK!!!! (although their crossing over did seem a bit contrived and far fetched since it almost tore appart the universe last time) but still, this ep reminded me of old fringe. But, why is it that the team of our timeline didnt pull the machine out of reidin lake? I mean they kept talking about using it. But, if anybody saw the promo afterwards, SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS:

    when she was seen crossing through when chasing jones, I at first thought she was crossing universes but maybe she was timeline skipping?

    Like: Thumb up 3

    • says

      A little contrived is an understatement. I think there was an attempt at giving Peter some “audience” lines (” …and you just happened to have this laying around?”). It didn’t change the fact that something that is supposed to be a B.F.D!, was little more than filling out the correct paperwork and having the device back in the MD basement by sundown before you’re levied a late fee.

      Also, the whole crossing over had as much suspense as watching the crew be beamed from the USS ENTERPRISE. Hit the big red ” Easy” button, and you too can travel cross universes!

      Like: Thumb up 3

    • Dylan says

      that’s what I was thinking.

      “The universes are already in such decay – oh I know, let’s tear open another door!”

      ah well, it’s the price for forward momentum, I guess. Hopefully it’s just a one-off.

      Like: Thumb up 1

  15. rayzak says

    I loved the episode, I’ll need to re-watch it tomorrow but as of now I found it quite satisfying.
    PS Maybe in this timeline Olivia needs to die in order to get Peter home to his timeline.

    Like: Thumb up 3

  16. Scully8 says

    First let me say that I definitely enjoyed the episode. However one pet peeve was Peter not explaining to Olivia about her ability to cross universes without the aide of a machine.

    Now . . . I will have to rewatch tomorrow because I’m totally blown away that Broyles is the inside man. Does anyone maybe think he’s a shapeshifter?

    Like: Thumb up 7

    • Megan says

      I was shocked but Broyles too. Maybe he’s just an inside man and not a shapeshifter…either way he’s tell betraying his team and Walternate.

      Like: Thumb up 1

    • qbanarik says

      He definitely is, as otherwise a normal Broyles would never be a traitor and work for DRJ. That being said, it made me think whether Altstrid was replaced too or if she is just a snitch as her normal self….

      Now after this ep. I can’t help but think… is Nina also a shapeshifter working for DRJ and that’s why she is injecting Olivia? hmmmmm

      And regarding the injections… How come the Cortexiphan is not killing Olivia if she has never been treated before? I thought it was clear it could only be used on children or otherwise it would kill adults? On our timeline Walter gave boosters to Olivia to enhance her abilities, but she had been treated as a child. As I understand, this Olivia never was?

      Like: Thumb up 4

      • Red Balloon says

        Good points, maybe if there is a SS-Nina, she has more than one from the Fringe teams working for her.

        I’m positive that in episode 4.03 Alone in the World, it was stated that little Olive was experimented on too, but she never finished the trials (she ran off).

        Like: Thumb up 0

      • g33k says

        In the background of Subject 9, when Olivia and Astrid are combing through files looking for Cameron Little’s identity you can see the tape of Walter’s experiments from Subject 13 running on a tv playing in the background. Olivia is running on the treadmill, so we know Walter got to the point where he suspected Olivia crossed universes because she drew a picture of the Zepplin and didn’t want to play outside anyway.

        Like: Thumb up 2

  17. drewkal says

    Darth Kate,
    QM allows for a silly number of “infinite universes.” Peter, or Walter or Walternate,or any flavor of Olivia or Broyles,Link or ayone are therotically posssible, in really infinite flavors and colors. Including Peter.
    My only creds here is having read Sci-Fi since 10 yrs old, and I’m 61 now. I also helped develop a “Physics For Non-Math” college course in 1973, and also being an Anthropology and Photography major.Trust me, the plot will make sense.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 16

      • Red Balloon says

        I think his point is that he has read Sci-Fi for 51 years, and in his experience, the plots tend to make sense?

        Anyway, just trust him….I guess ;)

        Like: Thumb up 3

      • g33k says

        Because if this universe has be ‘rewritten’ over, then one premise for what could happen is how things get ‘double exposed’. The original universes may just be ‘underneath’ the one we are seeing. Perhaps explaining the Peter ‘bleeding through’ dialogue.

        Like: Thumb up 4

        • Dylan says

          Theoretical physics and photography do not go hand in hand, even if one does use terminology from one of those specific fields to discuss something.

          the day Fringe relies on photography to explain the nature of its collapsing multiverse will definitely be the day I stop watching.

          Like: Thumb up 1

  18. Ducky says

    i loved it…am looking forward to next week…as they said it was supposed to be a two-parter with the next episode so YAY!. happy to have fringe back :D

    Like: Thumb up 4

  19. Sofia says

    I love this episode. Peter and Walternate and Peter and Elizabeth was amazing, I felt for them, Peter finally did have a human touch, when his mother did touch his face, I almost cried. Awesome

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 11

  20. Ariana says

    I really enjoyed this episode. All of the actors were especially brilliant and I feel like this season is really picking up. I mean, I had what seem to be some common pet peeves (using the previously universe-destroying device, the anticlimactic observer reveal) but overall this episode got me excited for the rest of the season. My only real concern is that I can’t really get a feel for our Olivia in this timeline. I was kind of ambivalent about the alternate Olivia in the original timeline but here I’m liking her a lot more whereas I’m not so sure about our Olivia, previously one of my absolute favorite characters.

    But me being a Debbie Downer aside: lovely episode, can’t wait for next week!

    Like: Thumb up 7

    • JM says

      Personally, I felt this episode proved that the character of altlivia can be saved from season 3, one good thing about the reset is they have a chance to make her a good character, this was a step in the right direction.

      Like: Thumb up 4

  21. number six says

    First, that plan was almost as stupid as Fauxlivia’s plan to warn Peter last season. Second, that must be one of the worst cliffhangers ever!

    Fringe is still a shadow of its former self and I feel like I’m watching a different show, but the episode itself was a vast improvement over the last installment. Fast-paced, high stakes, lots of emotion (Peter/Elizabeth), shocking revelations (AltBroyles!), Walternate and, best of all, Elizabeth. Orla Brady is wonderful and the chemistry she has with Joshua Jackson is insane. I loved Elizabeth’s instant recognition of her son. Orla handled, what could have been a ton of smelly cheese, brilliantly. It was still cheese, but of the best kind. I wish Elizabeth was on the show more frequently, she’s an amazing character.

    Walternate! It was good to see him again. Great “father/son but not really” scenes. Noble and Jackson invariably have their best scenes playing off each other.

    This must have been the first time I felt some emotional connection while watching the show this season, mainly because of Elizabeth/Peter, but I still don’t care about the new main characters. Unfortunately, it seems Peter will be stuck in this timeline for a long time. That’s disappointing. Let’s hope DRJ can spice things up a little since the “family story disguised as science fiction” is gone.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 13

    • JM says

      Whatever people say about joshua jacksons acting ability, it has to be said he has chemistry with pretty much everybody on fringe, especially with john noble and orla brady

      Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 16

    • Briar says

      If you like Orla Brady, watch out for Eternal Law, a show she is making for ITV here at the moment. The show itself is – well, problematic – but the acting in it is good.

      Like: Thumb up 1

      • Niomi Lianne says

        you’re right on the emotional conection. the other eps, I felt that I didnt really care about the other characters except peter until now.

        Like: Thumb up 1

  22. Ian Smyth says

    This was an absolutely fantastic episode, and this is coming from someone who really has not been a fan of the first 7 of season 4. However, I do appreciate those episodes more now. I’m going to break this comment down into parts.

    ALTERNATE TIMELINE: For the first 7 episodes of this season, I really didn’t understand this whole plot. I didn’t understand why the writers chose to go with this story and show us these characters and this new dual-universe world. I just went with the story and enjoyed the ride, but after Wallflower I was beginning to lose hope. I just didn’t understand why they were going in this direction.

    But, after BTWYNB, I understand. This show isn’t just about our main cast and their affects on their universe and the alternate universe, it’s about their affects on the course of time and space itself, and how their actions affect others. In this episode we learnt how bad the new timeline was off (especially in the alternate universe with the shape shifters). Everything bad in our timeline is much worse over in this new timeline, and that makes me think that the fourth season is less like “The Wizard of Oz” and more like Peter Bishop as a Jesus or Godly figure, dropped in literally out of nowhere and holds the key and power and knowledge and basically place in this universe to fix everything and make it right. This brings me into my next point…

    THEMES: As I said, I don’t think the theme of this season is completely about wanting to go home, but about how your actions can affect everything. Peter being dropped into this universe is probably a make or break thing. He could fix everything (get rid of Jones and the shape shifters) or end up ruining everything (causing them to take over). Of course, I’m thinking the former will happen. Our group of three from our timeline (Olivia Peter Walter) might hold the key and perfect placement to fix the whole grand scheme of universal things in the end of this show. And this season might show Peter the power that they hold, which would be extremely important going forward into next seasons. Also, if he fixes these two universes, they owe him forever (which could come in handy).

    This season also shows that no matter how bad your enemy is, they will have another enemy or you will both share a common enemy. These two universes now have to work together to face Jones and they have to forget their differences, and I’m sure it will be Peter who causes them to work together. Eventually, people realize that the only way to survive and be happy is to work together and respect and love one another. I think that’s a big theme about this season too. Now, after knowing this theme, I feel better about my next point…

    FIRST 7 EPISODES: Until a few hours ago, those episodes seemed almost directionless and quite disappointing compared to last season. But now they seem more like their own season in its own. They showed us what this new timeline is all about basically, and how things have changed, which is essential to go into the rest of this season and the themes it will bring. With all that in mind, they now seem like excellent set up episodes! Each one had a good story, some with a great story, good mythology, and some interesting twists and dynamics. All of them were quite good actually, and were essential for the incredible later part of the season that will follow. Which makes me think about this season as a whole, and it’s place in the story of the show, which brings me to my last point…

    SEASON 4, THE TRANSITION? Could this season be transitioning us away from the effects our two universes have on each other, and into the idea that the conclusion of the story will involve them working together on a much larger, grander scale? The Observers, especially September at the end of this episode, have hinted to this for a long time now. In ‘LSD’ from Season 3, our Olivia said Man X would kill her. In her mind, it was also a mix of the alternate universe and our own. It could also be a mix of timelines, as Man X could be from this new timeline. All our characters and universes and timelines could be connected. Learning that our Olivia was going to die, seeing another timeline future Olivia die (The Day We Died) and now learning that our new timeline Olivia had to die all seems connected and not a coincidence.

    The Observers seem to be able to travel between all these timelines and universes, and I’m quite positive September at the end of BTWYNB just had visited a possible future and had been shot in it (of course he will be fine though). This implies that he can visit other futures without our characters even knowing or feeling the effects from that. This gives a very new perspective on things, one that hadn’t been there before; is time really linear in Fringe? Is life all that we see it, or are things not exactly as they seem, as Walternate said?

    In the end though, at the end of this show, I think it will be about how Olivia and Peter and Peter and Walter basically found happiness and kept happiness and love in a universe where everything is always changing and their world around them could be completely the opposite of what it actually is.

    I think the message of this show at the end will be that personal, human relationships really conquer all.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 19

    • debo0775 says

      I didn’t read all of the above in all honesty, but you hit on exactly my thoughts about Peter – he is a “Jesus” character to this show.

      The producers haven’t been shy regarding religious themes and overtones, and they ratcheted up those ideas in this episode. Where Walter/Walternate are a “God” of sorts (especially if you buy into – and it’s still valid – the notion of Walter creating the time/space/existence paradox that is Peter via the machine), Peter is his prodigal son in both the literal and metaphorical sense. In this timeline, Peter was lost to history from a young age, and in his early 30s, he reappears, and he is seemingly tasked with resolving the issues of many worlds.

      I think this episode is going to dive further into religious motifs, and Peter I think’ll continue to be a man of mystery with no answer to his presence but may hold the answers to a mass of many.

      Like: Thumb up 4

  23. HeSaid says

    I have just been trying to read all the posts and links all over the web as like many of you, Fringe simply rocks! What I haven’t read or maybe I have missed, still much to catch up on is if Olivia seems to cross Universes, can cause outbursts of fire, one can presume she is something in relation to powerful energy, as Peter seems to be. Maybe it was Olivia who unknowingly pulled Peter back to this “present” timeline as she never fully crossed over from the one in S3 after the events that present/future Peter did to connect the two Universes from his timeline, which as a side effect erased him. Has anyone not noticed that when Walter is around either he seems to come to his senses, a light switch goes on, and all that insanity turns to peace and clarity for a time. What if Peter and Walter didn’t just create a bridge between their Universes but a focal point for all Universal timelines that like a ripple then work their way out. Because each Universe seems to have different events that shape it, some things of course are different, but they kinda still come together and as fate would have it, be the same. Now I know this doesn’t explain why Olivia must die, but maybe in order to break the loop, and all present steps that with Olivia being alive on both sides, dying only after Walternate kills her in 2026, maybe she needs to die now, killing her ability at pulling/keeping Peter in this timeline and maybe resetting him back to either his present day 2012 or maybe even back to 2026 where he needs to tell Walter, nope that try was not the one?????

    Like: Thumb up 7

  24. Mike says

    This episode was so amazing it had great twists and development on so many levels. The actors did a remarkable work as always.And i currently like Walternate more than Walter.
    Brilliant overall. ;)

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 18

  25. mrflamethunder says

    I love this episode (except the cliffhanger I guess), it’s fast-paced, intense..
    The story arc did move along – the human shapeshifters, Peter’s journey to go back..
    Don’t complain if you think this issue or that issue are not addressed. You can’t expect all stories to be covered in one night.
    But it’s really been a pleasure to read all the comments here after watching.
    I don’t know how to analyze the details like you guys did. I’m usually just riding along. XD

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 13

  26. JM says

    Question to all:
    Do you reckon DRJ will turn out to be the DRJ from the original timeline that peter killed? i have no idea how they would explain it, but i cant help but feel that would be absolutely awesome!

    Like: Thumb up 3

  27. FringeFriday says

    Amazing episode, amazing acting, amazing story!

    If I look back at the last episodes I am really wondering why all of a sudden Peter is the total center of this episode!

    Linc on Linc action was great, Our Linc really showed some balls this time. must be the lack of glasses!

    Peter’s reunion with “his” “mother” was GREAT, I enjoyed every single line.

    Can we trust Walternate? I still say NAY! But the evilness faded a little.

    Broyles, MAN, what happened to you? Shapeshifter or did you switch sides… hmmm. we’ll see!

    Wow a shot Observer… did he jump in front of Olivia’s bullet and still couldn’t save her?

    The only thing I missed in this episode was Gene :)

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 10

  28. Steph says

    Also loved the part were Walternate zapped Brandon i know he was a human shapeshifter and all but i never liked the dude much in either univserse/timeline!

    Like: Thumb up 6

      • g33k says

        It was one of Ari Margolis’s songs of the day!A song of the day was a clue!!! FYI Ari is the man responsible for all the amazing online promos and fan videos and on hiatuses he releases a “fringe” song of the day on his twitter feed (@jonxproductions)

        Like: Thumb up 2

  29. mark says

    “the whole first people thing needs to be explained (and i doubt it will be considering now olivia will have a breakdown about dying, and then she’ll lean on lincoln and well…NUFF said i dread thinking about it) but they simply need a season 5 in order to explain everything properly.”

    its all explained: read beyond the fringe

    Like: Thumb up 1

  30. Schwakamole says

    Great episode! But then most of the great episodes are all centered around the main story arc, as this one was. I loved the interaction of the two sides. I especially enjoyed all the little things they put in there. Like Peter looking around Olivia’s apartment, trying to see how it was different from his Olivia’s. Lincoln’s uncomfortable look when Olivia was messing with his hair. Peter’s surprised jealous look – he didn’t think that this Olivia had an affect on him but she is starting to. Olivia not knowing about her abilities – but they should have had that affect her a little bit more. I totally bought the two Lincolns. Seth Gabel did a good job of differentiating between the two even when they were dressed alike. Peter and Elizabeth’s meeting was so touching. Even though she isn’t his mother, he still reveled in her motherly touch, the first tender actions towards him in a long time. Walternate is still duplicitous but seems to have a softer side. “Seems to” being the operative words here. Can’t trust him, ever. Did any else notice that his right eye seemed to be mechanical in some way??! Something seemed different with it. Also did anyone else notice that the back of the human shapeshifter disc has a big fat X on it? Man X anyone?

    It was good to see AltBroyles alive and well, but he’s gone to the dark side! Unless! Unless DRJ is actually a sort of freedom fighter in this timeline fighting against both sides for some unknown reason. Shot in the dark there.

    Did anyone else notice Peter’s line about Lincoln being good at deception? I have a feeling we’re gonna start to see some not-so-nice sides of Lincoln in the future.

    Even though the first 7 episodes were hard to watch because we were not invested in these “new” characters, I feel like it’s really helped establish how big of an impact Peter had on these people. Life in general is the same but all the relationships are altered. And with his presence they are all maybe moving closer to the people he loves. He’s trying hard not to invest but he’s being dragged into it. I expect the rest of the season will be great and give us all more understanding of the entire storyline.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 10

    • g33k says

      “Olivia doesn’t even say “let’s stop and think about this”, she instead says “yeah, that could work”, and instantly agrees to it. It didn’t make any sense to me,”

      John noble had an eye surgery (cataract I think?), the reflection in his eye is apparently a side effect of it.

      Like: Thumb up 1

      • g33k says

        ooops, my post above copied in the wrong quote, my reply was to your question: “Did any else notice that his right eye seemed to be mechanical in some way??! Something seemed different with it.”

        Like: Thumb up 1

  31. Megan says

    Does anyone have an idea as to why Elizabeth looked so much younger?!

    I was thinking is might be that her and Walternate have a healthier marriage so that could take off the stress, which ages a person. But that doesn’t seem to be enough.

    Like: Thumb up 6

  32. kelly says

    I don’t know how Peter can be viewed as Jesus, someone who is going to save two world’s. He first destroys one world and then cheats time to save his love from dying and fix a mistake that he made. Now he is at a place where a bridge has been created by him so that two world’s could work together to fix things, but he wants nothing to do with it because these people are not his family and this is not his timeline. Hopefully he will care about the people in this timeline, but right now he doesn’t. The problems of both worlds are so serious that everyone will have to work together and the price will be more costly than anyone can imagine.

    Like: Thumb up 5

    • debo0775 says

      I don’t think anyone’s said he’s willing to accept that role, but I don’t think it’s much of a mistake that there have been some parallels and connections made to a Jesus-like character given the past use of religious tones to convey a story in this series.

      Like: Thumb up 2

  33. kidentropia says

    This episode was second-half-of-season-2 good! It was brilliant, absolutely brilliant! Great plot, great acting, great character development and, for the first time in the course of the season i totally, completely cared about each and every one of the characters, not just Peter! Even the glyphcode was exciting! It was beautiful to guess what the word was before the shoe had ended, and the cliffhanger!!!! in the Holy Name of Jacob! Great, great, greaaaaaaaaat episode!!!

    Oh, and am i the only one who´s helplessly falling in love with Orla Brady?

    Like: Thumb up 5

  34. charliefan19 says

    Loved this one. Loved that this timeline’s Brandon was a shapeshifter, love that Jones is back, love that Alt-Broyles is in cohoots with him, LOVED the scene at the end with September and Olivia. That was meant to be the fall finale…glad we only have to wait a week!

    The Nissan ad was dumb. lol

    My favorite part, however, was seeing Walternate and Elizabeth together. To all appearances they seemed happy together and their marriage seemed good. no mistress in the picture, I’m assuming. Elizabeth looks much more youthful, and she has a backbone.

    Is it just me, or does everyone just seem happier in the Red Universe in this timeline? Even Charlie is married to Bug Girl.

    Like: Thumb up 6

    • RunsDeep says

      I liked that Elizabeth told the soldiers who came to her home, “You heard me!” It showed a very good level of strength in the character. Also, when Walternate asked to speak to Peter alone, you could almost see the “Was Peter right?” look in her eye, sort of contemplating what Peter told her about people working for Walternate trying to kill him. The whole Walternate getting the anti-shapeshifter ray gun ready while talking to Peter scene was well done, btw. They have made both Walternate and Elizabeth very sympathetic characters in this timeline. Sort of wonder what will happen to the Peter-Walternate-Elizabeth relationship if and when Peter gets back to the original timeline.

      Like: Thumb up 2

  35. Dylan says

    Found it a little underwhelming myself.

    The budget cuts are becoming all-too obvious, and the knowledge that Jones was returning kind of killed the whole “it’s walternate!” idea – but that’s my fault for watching the promos, I guess.

    I’m excited that it’s back, and that we finally have some new stuff to discuss – but the episode as a whole didn’t do it for me. Next episode, however, looks more like my kind of Fringe.

    And yes, I might be sounding like a broken record, but the “you built [the machine]!” took me right out the episode in the first third, and had me reeling for a while.

    Looking forward to things ahead, hope it all pays off as well as the producers have telegraphed.

    Like: Thumb up 3

    • Dylan says

      Add to this;

      - yay of having Orla back!
      - yay for having Brandon (whichever universe he’s from) – he seems a little less chin-y now too, or is it just me?
      - yay for Walternate finally returning!

      It’s just great to actually have something to watch again (ever since ‘American Horror Story’ ended, I’ve had nothing to watch).

      My laptop has gone away for repairs:( which means that I’m now temporarily using a very slow computer. This may impact my post-rate (hopefully it doesn’t, I want to be here to join in the discussions).

      So upset that I was late to this… (I’ll make sure I’m on-time next week).

      Like: Thumb up 5

  36. g33k says

    Absolutely amazing episode. Great performances from everyone.

    My OMG moments included:
    - Broyles is working for Jones – obviously a shapeshifter
    - Walternate zaps shifty-Brandonate.
    - Walternate’s NOT the shapeshifter kingpin??? Whaaaa?

    My awwww moments included:
    - Every second of Orla Brady on screen.
    - Elizabeth(nate?) and Walternate when she goes up and to Walternate and says “I’ts Peter!” but then Walternate replies “Of course it is.” or something like that, really delivering the line like he cared but at the same time I was like “Heeees lyyyinggggg!”
    - Walter rejecting Peter.

    I did have one W T F moment though, I didn’t get that Peter would say “Its not my fight” and not recognize that hey, maybe one guy who pops up, even if he does seem to cause some problems with time, IS going to be ignored over the threat of universes degrading or what they think is hostile invading universe when he’s pestersing them to try to get home.

    HOWEVER, I will forgive this fact, since, as we all know from season 1, that ZFT document says “they will be unwilling”. Perhaps Peter is one of the unwilling ‘soldiers’ that the ZFT document is referring too. WHICH IS GREAT because we might actually be getting back into the season 1 ZFT mysteries. That and there was that one part in the promo that reminded me of a season one plot too. Very cool.

    Oh and does anyone think there was Osmium in the pinwheel and that’s why it was going backwards (against the laws of physics – as Walter said)

    Totally looking forward to next week!

    Like: Thumb up 4

  37. Red Balloon says

    I feel more confident about where they are going with the story, and I‘m loving it. I still have to watch it with subtitles, but what I’d like to say right now is that I think it has at least two of the best dialogues that Fringe and actors have delivered in the entire series and touches the very essence of the show. Forgive me if I got something wrong with the following:

    Elizabeth: “Over the years, my husband has opened my mind to things I’ve never thought possible…and still I never thought that (touches Peter). But as soon as I looked into your eyes, I knew”…”They…they told me that you died, the night that you were taken from me”

    Peter: And they told you the truth, I’m sorry Elizabeth, but I’m not the Peter that you think I am, I’m from another place, is all very complicated, but I have people there that I care about very, very deeply, and I have to get back to them”

    Elizabeth: “That’s what helped me through it, you know, I told myself that if another universe exists, and there’s got to be more, then, somewhere, you would grow up, and be happy and, fall in love, somewhere you’d have a life, just, just not here”

    The writers just keep showing amazingly, simple and endearing lines that can translate one person’s condition to believe in something else; into an inner reality that has to exist in order for humans to become transcendental beings.

    And then Elizabeth to Walter “Is Peter, it’s a miracle” …just finished to establish what she’s been through for many years; having faith in something better happening than just a physical dead, and she takes her reward in the form of a miracle and a confirmation to her beliefs.

    The second dialogue is shorter and even greater IMO, because it sums up, both character’s perspectives and the story behind them in a few strong words:

    Peter: “I was wrong about you; you are not the man I thought you were”

    Walternate: “You are exactly the man I thought you would be”

    And this one is just FRINGE at its best style:

    Walternate: “Not everything is at it seems”

    I enjoyed all the actors’ interactions. I loved seeing both Olives and Lincs forming an alliance with Peter, and all of the twists added (September included). It’ll definitely be a payoff from all this very soon.

    And yes I have many questions, but I have to watch it again before I comment on them.

    I also enjoyed very much reading more positive posts today. Is good to have those back.

    Like: Thumb up 5

    • Drenami says

      Here looks like a good place to say that I haven’t noticed anyone mention (forgive me if i missed it) How much s4Elizabeth’s line:

      “That’s what helped me through it, you know, I told myself that if another universe exists, and there’s got to be more, then, somewhere, you would grow up, and be happy and, fall in love, somewhere you’d have a life, just, just not here”

      immediately took me back to Walter’s line in 2.16′Peter’ when showing Blue Elizabeth the window and Peter alive in his bed on the other side:

      “It’s a window to another universe.
      Like ours, but different
      Elizabeth, I am telling you this
      Because I want you to know
      That somewhere peter will grow up,
      Somewhere he will lead a proper life,
      Somewhere he will be happy, but just not here.
      And we must take comfort in this.
      And we must begin to move on.”

      Did no one else notice? I thought they were perhaps the EXACT same lines until I actually went back to check. (pretty darn close though)

      Like: Thumb up 3

      • Red Balloon says

        Yeah, this took to that scene too and I think that’s why I appreciated more, because that felt like we know her her thoughts were coming from. Not some random theory, but her hopeful wishes that they’ve presented before, like the one of the tulip’s field (riding in the wagoner with little Peter) and the one in the kitchen (sometimes the world we get is not the world we want, but that’s why we have our imagination for). She’s all about hope when it comes to Peter.

        Like: Thumb up 0

  38. Scully8 says

    I hesitate to write this, but I think I just may need a bit of help.

    First, I love, love, love reading all of the comments and theories, it really makes watching Fringe that much better. A lot of the insights that you guys gleen are really great.

    Alas, that’s what makes this post seem a bit simple/petty whatever you want to call it. Here it is . . .

    I truly enjoyed this episode–from the Peter’s dream and interaction with the Walters to his meeting with Elizabeth and old Altbrandon meeting his end. My one issue, which I am embarrassed to say is making it a challenge for me to watch Fringe with the intensitity that this show deserves is — the Lincoln Lee character.

    It definitely has a lot to do with the new Olivia / Lincoln romantic hook up, but I’m also not connecting with his character at all. I did like AltLincoln, to a point, last season, but this new version isn’t likable; on the other hand, I am liking this Altlivia, dare I say, more than ‘our’ new timeline Olivia.

    Lincoln is cute, sensative and smart, but he’s not compelling in the way most Fringe characters are . . . I don’t know, but he really bothers me. Following are my issues:
    1. He has been made such a central part of the story to the demise of Astrid, Broyles and Nina (although, I know Nina will soon be featured more)

    2. His relationship with Olivia . . . it just seems forced; I don’t want to say there is no chemistry because if I’m being honest, they’ve got a bit of a vibe going. ;) With that said, she still comes off as more of a big sister versus a love interest . . . just sayin’

    3. This timeline AltLincoln comes off as trying too hard to be the tough guy — I love Seth Gable, but he just can’t carry the ‘leading’ tough guy thing off. On the otherhand, he does do the amberverse Lincoln justice — soft, sensative, etc.

    Okay, those are my points; as I read them, maybe it is just me having a hard time dealing with another male lead being introduced and the potential of him taking Olivia from Peter.

    Gosh, I feel so shallow now . . . my fellow Fringe devotees, forgive me . . . I am not worthy. :(

    Like: Thumb up 7

    • JM says

      Forgiven. All though i think was the first episode with lincoln that he didnt make me cringe in every scene, i think it was the distinct lack of the interaction between ourlivia and lincoln apart from the hair bit (cringe), the altlivia and lincoln relationship is ok and i dont mind it, i may even like it a little bit.

      I agree altilivia is MUCH more likable in the reboot and i do like her more than ourlivia, ourlivia dropped huge respect points for lying to peter about why she wanted him to go over and smiling while he said he owed her one, not cool.

      The season has focused a lot on lincoln and has taken away from astrid broyles and nina and that to my mind is unnacceptable.

      Like: Thumb up 6

    • Megan says

      It’s all good!

      While I don’t mind Lincoln, I too think that his relationship with Olivia feels forced. I mean, why does it have to happen in the first place?!
      Writers please just leave that attempt at a relationship alone…thanks!

      Like: Thumb up 7

  39. Ben says

    What an absolutely spectactular episode! One thing I love about Fringe is that it always seems to out-do itself: revealing DRJ as the villain and Alter-Broyles as a shapeshifter would’ve been a brilliant ending in itself, but then they raise the stakes even higher with the notion that EVERY iteration of our Olivia is doomed to die, nomatter how the future progresses.

    Some key things I enjoyed about this episode:

    1. Walternate. What an incredible character. Although John Noble rightly gets plaudits mainly for his work as ‘our’ version of Walter Bishop, his portrayal of the Secretary of Defense is almost perfect. Very interesting that Walternate is not the ‘big bad’ as many, including myself, had hoped. After all, he is genetically identical to our Walter, who despite his many flaws is probably, deep down, not a ‘bad person.’ Of course, the way the show deconstructs the simplistic opposition of ‘good and evil’ has always been one of its strengths, but I thought it was particularly well done in this sequence.

    2. Joshua Jackson. I know many people consider him to be a relatively limited actor in comparison with the wonderful Noble, but I thought his work in this episode was superb, particularly his scenes with Orla Brady (who I’ll move on to briefly). One issue I have is why he seems to dismiss the concerns of this multiverse, timeline, whatever you want to call it, so easily in favour of going ‘home.’ Although he does have form for this (Subject 13), it kind of contrasts with his speech with Altlivia in season 3 about the alternate universe having just as much right to survive as the prime universe. Is this new timeline/reality somehow less important than the original? I hope this question will be answered through the course of the season.

    3. Amber-Eliza-nate (possibly not the catchiest name, but it’s the best I could do!) has proven that all iterations of Walter’s wife are fascinating characters. The fact that she was the only one to instantly trust Peter, yet not be over protective, really speaks volumes about the importance of the family, a theme which the show has always treated powerfully. Great stuff!

    4. The ‘OhmyGod’ moments were back with aplomb. The Fringe agent shooting his partner, Walternate zapping shapeshifter Brandonate (such a shame it couldn’t have happened to his version in the original timeline), DRJ’s return (for anyone who managed to stear clear of the promos) and the final Observer warning all had me and my friend absolutely stunned.

    All in all, I’m so glad that Fringe is back to brighten up Saturday mornings (sadly I’m in the UK so have to watch online), and I can only see the season going from strength to strength over the next few weeks!

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8

    • Schwakamole says

      I think Peter is trying to stay out of this fight because both Peter’s actually died in these universes. He was saved in the original timeline so he probably assumes that he has more of a “right” to try to save it. Just my thoughts on that.

      Like: Thumb up 4

      • Ben says

        That is a very good line of argument, hopefully the show will explore this issue in greater detail at some point! I find it a very interesting moral question; whether or not one side is more ‘real’ than the other. This question can be equally applied to both the universes, the new timeline and even the now obsolete future timeline in 2026. To the people in those timelines, it must’ve seemed ‘real’ enough: one thing I love is the way the show asks these mind-boggling existential questions, but in a way that makes them fascinating rather than frightening. Great stuff!

        Like: Thumb up 2

    • says

      @Ben: Peter’s reluctance to help both worlds in this timeline kind of caught me off guard too. But, the more that I think about it, the more that it makes sense. Peter firmly believes that he is not suppose to be in this timeline and so he is trying to make sure that he doesn’t interfere too much since it may cause some unintended consequences if he does. His presence caused so much damage in his original timeline that he doesn’t want to begin to imagine how much damage his presence and involvement could cause in this timeline where he believes he is not suppose to be in the first place. This timeline has existed without him and so, in theory, it should be able to sustain itself without his involvement. He believes he needs to get back to his timeline where his presence is missed and where there exists people (Walter and Olivia) who don’t know how to live without him.

      Like: Thumb up 2

  40. weissis.... says

    um, i think that trying to use a VERY complicated theory of time travel and paradoxes in a tv show meant for mass audience is creating hangups for some viewers. while there are certainly “some” issues with this plot it is not nearly as grave as some people seem to think and i would suggest letting it go and just accepting that it is to complicated to understand and just enjoy Fringe for what it is – excellent tv. (i don’t mean to suggest that people should not try to understand some of these concepts as they are fascinating and i would never suggest learning is a bad thing.) and just an fyi – the boot strap paradox is not relevant to this show and what they are trying to do with the machine, etc

    Like: Thumb up 5

    • Dylan says

      “the boot strap paradox is not relevant to this show and what they are trying to do with the machine”

      How is it not relevant? That’s exactly the paradox they set up (before Peter’s unsubstantiated “Walter built it” explanation, of course).

      Like: Thumb up 1

        • Red Balloon says

          “Gentlemen, include me out”…but if I were to include myself into this, my answer is a question -> WhoTFringe divided by ZERO???… oh shi!!!
          ha ha

          Like: Thumb up 1

        • JM says

          In the event that the writers keep getting peter to say walter built the machine, and as stated by other people the comics say walter built the machine, who dylan thinks made it may be irrelevant (not to insult you dylan) as the writers may have decided this is what happened now, and as illogical as it may be, we’ll have to accept it.

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          • Red Balloon says

            I think the first statement about that came from Nina “It is William’s technology but he never built it”…something like that. But I’ve come to accept that Walter could’ve built it when the first time loop occurred, because we never saw that first loop (the pieces from the BBM were already there)…Walter has built any number of devices while working with Bell (tv-screen from “Peter” included), so I’m good with that. It’s not that crazy.

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  41. weissis.... says

    different post – different topic. it occurred to me watching the episode, what if the “alternate universe” in this new timeline is actually Peter’s real home? The original alt-universe was the way the universe developed w/o Peter therefore it stands to reason that in removing Peter from his peeps it would result in them becoming/developing into (what we call) their alternates. (this is probably confusing since i am not sure how to clearly differentiate the 4 universes, sorry)

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    • g33k says

      I’m on to this theory too, but I think there are more changes besides just Peter being dead that explain it. But that’s all I’ll say about it for now.

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  42. Chinupbabies says

    Ben, well, remember how “invested” he was when he was dating the wrong Olivia so maybe he figures, “I am not going to get close to anybody who is not my Walter and Olivia” since he will not hear the end of it from Olivia and Walter.

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  43. Sanj says

    Getting here a bit late to the party, so I’ll only comment on what hasn’t been said:

    The Shapeshifters: the ones on the Other Side seem to be quite well established. They appear to work properly. The ones on “our side” are struggling to make themselves work (Walter even commented early in the season that the Blueverse shapeshifters don’t quite work properly, and we see them trying to kidnap a scientist to help make them “work”.) A small point, but important. If Jones is their creator, then he must not exist on our side, or was killed before he could make them work right.

    The shapeshifters have a different M.O. this time around. Bellie’s shapeshifters were created because Walternate couldn’t figure out how to safely cross over. He needed bio-mechanical blobs capable of crossing without being destroyed. The new shifters don’t appear to be about “crossing over” at all. Their motives are straight up infiltration.

    Good episode. And I must say…the actor playing Brandon looks like he’s been working out…looking good, man!

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    • Dylan says

      “And I must say…the actor playing Brandon looks like he’s been working out…looking good, man!”

      ah, so you noticed that as well lol

      Glad to have some familiar faces back in the show

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