FRINGE: 4.05 Novation

nov-5

SOME THINGS ARE NOT MEANT TO BE TAMPERED WITH ON AN ALL-NEW “FRINGE” FRIDAY, NOV 4, ON FOX

In the aftermath of recent shocking events, things really escalate when the translucent shapeshifters return. As the threat and circumstances intensify, a former Massive Dynamic scientist Malcolm Truss (guest star Arye Gross) enters the fold. Meanwhile, Nina Sharp pays Walter a visit in the lab.

Fringe 4.05 "Novation" Ratings

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  1. Ben says

    This was such a well acted episode. The first meeting between Peter and the “new” Walter became awesome before a word was spoken.

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  2. Schoko says

    It was so worth the wait to see Peter and Walter together. I know it didn’t go so well, but still, so good to see the two of them on screen together.

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    • says

      What made their second meeting work for me was the “pull-back from Walter”. Just when it seemed like Walter was going to accept Peter he immediately, and vehemently rejects him.

      Those that don’t watch Fringe are missing watching a true thespian at work. John Noble “takes you there and back” in his dramatic scenes.

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      • mlj102 says

        Wasn’t that done perfectly? At first I was worried they really were going to resolve Walter’s feelings about him that quickly and I think that would have been a huge mistake. So as painful as it is to have Walter rejecting Peter, I am glad that’s what they did and I can’t wait to see how they work to mend that relationship. I think the whole situation is made even better because Walter’s reaction makes sense. He feels guilty and doesn’t deserve that happiness, so he refuses to believe it, refuses to accept it. It’s a neat character insight.

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    • Schoko says

      When I said “I know it didn’t go so well,” I meant for Peter. I do like how it played out, and agree that it’s best for the story that Peter and Walter remain disconnected.
      Sorry, I didn’t mean to start a “hot debate.” Just happy to see the two on screen together again.

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  3. says

    Oh so that’s what was missing! Add Peter; a dash of Nina Sharp; and bake at 375 till gold and bubbly.

    It takes everyone to make this show work and it was nice to have all hands on deck again.

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    • Owl says

      I didn’t realize how much I missed Peter until he was back on the show. And the twist with Nina being a foster parent? Priceless.

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  4. J.P. says

    Dearest Fringe,
    I’m writing this letter to you know full of admiration and respect, but with a large hint of dread. I’ll begin and end with a simple, yet incredbily important message… “WHAT’S HAPPENED TO YOU?!”
    I’d like to say that “Novation” was worth the EXTRA wait, that I’ve finally felt fully satisfied by this show, or better yet, that Fringe is finally “back”. But… I cannot say those things. I’ve reached a crossroads — I don’t even know if I love the show, or if I hate the show. Ever since season four’s begun, I’ve been one of the few to admit it hasn’t reached at least MY expectations (JM and Dylan also have similar feelings, I believe). That’s the truth. I feel disappointed. It’s very easy for me to simply say, “the show’s been ruined, and I hate it”, but, primarily because of the previous three year’s I’ve watched Fringe as a dedicated follower, I cannot. If I had just started watching Fringe now, and even if I understood all of the crazy plot points going on, I’d probably despise it. Don’t get me wrong, I’ll watch Fringe to the bitter end, but I’m affraid that road to the hopeful ending is going to be even more bitter.
    Let’s start off with the obvious… LINCOLN. Yes, I know I rant quite frequently about our favorite (haha…) Lincoln Lee, and it’s just because he’s GOT TO GO. Kill him off, fire him, I don’t really care which. Lincoln was a great BACKGROUND, GUEST CHARACTER — HE IS NOT A GREAT SERIES REGULAR, ESPECIALLY WORKING ALONGISDE ANNA TORV. He’s got to go.
    Next up: Olivia. Even if Anna Torv WAS incredible, she’s lost her glory. Olivia’s become, again, at least to me, a boring, two-dimensional character, who will take the first chance she can get to cuddle up next to the attractive new coworker. I mean, seriously! I would’ve expected that it was Lincoln who’d ask her to dinner first, not OLIVIA DUNHAM! And, I really don’t care at all about her past with Nina Sharp. It’s a useless filler (in my opinion) — nearly as pathetic as Lincoln’s newfound role on the show.
    Peter: Oh, Peter. I’ve missed you so much. But, silly me, I actually thought you would save the show after four very lackluster and annoying episodes. Looks like I was wrong. Now, after a few hours back in this new reality, you figure it’s okay to start blackmailing people to get what you want (and what do you REALLY want, Peter?). He doesn’t care about anyone anymore, and is manipulative. I thought that Peter would be the one character I could actually relate to in this new season, but I’m sorry, I’m not digging this new Peter.
    Even the dialogue about Peter was ridiculous. Like Nina saying, “I’ve heard about the man claiming to be Peter Bishop”, in such a calm manner. If I were Nina, and somebody who claimed to be the same boy I’m partially responsible for killing 25 years ago showed up with extensive information on me, I wouldn’t be speaking like a robot. Or, Olivia saying something along the lines of, “if he was just some itteration of Walter’s son, I could be okay, but why’s he in my head?” Oh, really? There’s nothing mysterious about a man claiming to be Walter Bishop’s 25-year dead son turning up alive, even if he wasn’t in YOUR head? Nope, just another day at the office, now I’ll go flirt with Lincoln some more…
    I hoped that “Novation” would increase the pace for the season, by actually answering something! Please, anything at all! I get why mysteries are as important in a show as complex as Fringe, but come on! Now, the remaining episodes will all be about figuring out why Peter’s here, one tiny morsel at a time. Just like the three, Lincoln-filled (which is synonymous with “sickening”, by the way) excuses for Fringe episodes, followed by a relatively average fourth episode. Why can’t Fringe just answer a question completely, instead of seeming like the producers are still stuck in the polar bear cages? You know why? Because, they ARE still stuck in the polar bear cages. The producers didn’t know where to take the show, so they erased Peter Bishop, threw in Lincoln Lee to gain some more viewers, and after realizing that didn’t work, got stuck again. You guys watch, these next episodes will be boring case-of-the-week’s, with a few minutes of exposition interlaced between them.
    Why can’t Fringe follow season three’s pattern? Even when Olivia was on the Other Side, and we all wanted her to come back right away, we became fine with it, because all those “case-of-the-week” episodes were actually filled with information. I cannot say the same for this season. Five episodes in, and we’ve covered the following: Lincoln has to die, and nobody remembers Peter. Those were only the two things we’ve been saying since “The Day We Died” originally aired!
    Look guys, Fringe was (and hopefully will be again, soon) a magnificent show. I’ll never stop watching it (well, unless Olivia and Lincoln get together, then that’s a different story), and I’ll always be a completely loyal fan. But let’s face it, CHANGE IS NOT GOOD.
    All I can say is, and I can’t even BELIEVE I’m saying this… [spoiler removed - ed] is Fringe’s one hope, I think. Please, [spoiler removed - ed]… save us.
    What’s happened to you, Fringe?

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    • JM says

      Some strong feelings there man, i will give you my own thoughts duly after i have seen the episode, unfortunately as im in the UK i have to wait for be uploaded, but yes i did share your feelings for the first 4 episodes, tbh i hope i dont share your feelings for the fifth episode, but i probably will

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      • JM says

        @JP
        Right having read your comments thorougly I will now give my opinions on the episode, as you are one of the few people on the internet who will actually give constructive comments and take part in a sensible debate i look forward to your comments.

        I have to say this is the first episode of fringe that i really enjoyed, sure it had its negative parts like olivia asking lincoln out on a date, i actually liked lincoln more for rejecting her, he also got points for letting peter help out the team. I also thoroughly enjoyed peters return and specifically joshua jackson performance throughout the episode, I disagree J.P that hes being a bad person, he had to react quickly, they dont trust him, they locked him up, all he can do is try and find a way out and to do that he has to talk to walter, i really enjoyed the intercom moment, and its like peter has regained some of the potential he had in the first season before he was dumbed down through seasons 2-3.
        John Noble was again fantastic, but i do not like how he and olivia are treating peter, i know its understandable but it still puts my teeth on edge. Next weeks episode looks like its gonna be amazing aswell.

        Right now i will get to two large pieces of your manuscript/comment :P, first of all Lincoln, yes he is very annoying, but as aforementioned he both rejected olivias come on in this ep. and let peter help the team, however much i may not like him generally he reduced the defecit i have with him, but i still would prefer it if he was still a recurring character only.

        Anna Torv! im sorry to agree with you. I hope i am wrong but it may be that she reached her peak in season 3. Her hand gestures around her stomach her little shakes of the head, the way she moves around on her feet when shes talking to someone, all seem somehow completely exaggerated to me now, I know i will get a lot of negative feedback for what i am about to write but i believe we have had an overload of her in the first 5 episodes, and she needs to be toned back a bit, the parts i most enjoyed in this episode were when she wasnt in it, and finally (this is completely judgemental but still..) for a woman who was once IMO one of the most attractive women on the planet and one whom i never thought would go “hollywood” she has duly lost significant weight and looks positively unhealthy. I also extremely dislike the fact that anna torv seems dead set on a olivia/lincoln relationship, which would make me consider never watching the show again, but like u J.P i will watch it to the end.

        I did feel that the writers missed an oppourtunity here. Instead of really focusing on Peter they sidelined him when we could have seen the case entirely from his point of view, i think that would have been a lot more interesting, instead we focus on versions of our characters that i am still struggling to invest in.

        Final note, Peter is probably one of the main reasons to stick around now, he has probably been a better character in this one episode than he has been for the entire first 3 seasons, they actually gave him good material and he duly delivered. I hope you get back to me soon J.P :p

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        • J.P. says

          Very good stuff, JM. Yes, Anna Torv’s “lost her glory”, and even though John Noble is magnificent, I’m not a fan of where they’re taking his character (but I don’t think I could ever admit my possible distaste for him, because no one can hate Noble). I agree, they could have really brought Peter back into the “main character fold” with this episode. I was really surprised that he appeared for a few minutes talking to Walter, before being benched for a while, and then told to decrypt memory disks. I’m probably being too hard on Peter, as you’ve raised some good points regarding his current choices (he’s trying to do his best), but it just seemed like he managed this entire situation a little too easily, if you ask me.
          Lincoln… well, at least he turned her down. Still don’t like him, though…
          “I did feel that the writers missed an oppourtunity here.” Indeed they did, as they’ve missed oppourtunities all throughout this season. I know I’m very critical of this show, but it’s my form of “tough love”. I know it can be so much better, and I’m hoping that something BIG happens soon! Although, I’m also concerned I’ll be waiting the entire season for this big “something” to arrive, and it never will.

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          • JM says

            @JP
            “but it just seemed like he managed this entire situation a little too easily”
            Totally understand why you would see that, but JJ interview that was published yday provided insight. You’ve got to remember that peter is the smartest man in the room bar walter, even though he may have been dumbed down, he has still got an IQ of 190 so one could posit he would be able to compartmentalise easier than other people, and see the goal and do whats necessary to get there, he dosen’t panic but deduces quickly what he has to do and thats to speak to walter

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            • J.P. says

              Haha, I love the bit of Peter’s IQ. So yes, I probably am being too hard on him. I guess I’ve gotten used to the “dumb Peter” from seasons 2-3. I hope I’ll get back to loving Peter soon!

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    • says

      I hear what you’re saying.

      Lincoln: Whenever he turns up on screen I just think, ” the writers must have a killer storyline for him down the road…right?” With under utilized characters like Broyels, Nina, and never last in my book, Agent Astrid Farnsworth why bother with more Lincoln. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, ” Why has Prime Suspect not been canceled yet?” If we were going for some levity for our Fringies we all know good and well that Agent Charlie Francis is who was is supposed to be Over Here.

      The Shows hope: I haven’t completely given up. It has had a slow start and there have been more character moments then there have been leaps forward in the over arching mythology of the series, but the all the elements are still there. [spoiler removed - ed] Also, we have 3 seasons of material that it is a delight to see referenced and revisted (even in the this strange up-is-down, hunt for Christmas eggs and open presents under the Easter Tree world).

      Okay I am playing Devil’s advocate now. I get that way when I am satisfied by an episode. So as much as I share in your anguish: It is close to my frustration of over the “love triangle” (ugh! I shutter at the mere mention of that whole plot) of Season 3. Let’s hope that this is apart of the writers’ way to right that ship and create a new timeline as to not ever have to speak of that debacle again…or “Soul Magnets”.

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      • JM says

        On your comments on underused characters, i thought nina’s dialogue was absoloutely horrible lol i actually laughed aloud at the bit where she said “ive heard about the man claiming to be peter bishop, how is walter taking it?” and olivia says “not well” and she gives a deadpan “thats unfortunate” i was literally sitting there going WTF LOL!, and was astrid in this episode? it actually took me a second to realise she was there at the beginning before walter and peters first meeting, jasika nicole i feel for you. Broyles got the most he’s had to do all seasons and that was 5 minutes worth of asking peter questions about peter, why lincoln lee do you get presidence!?

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        • jewlz2214 says

          Yeah. What they all said about everything.
          Especially anything to do with Lincoln-Lincoln-Lincoln (pronounced ‘Marsha-Marsha-Marsha’). And Olivia already stepping on Peanut. I was unfortunately expecting both – I’m just expectedly not pleased with either.

          So to add a couple opinions:
          OK, so Olivia has to be afraid of Peter to drag things out on the way to the love half of the equation; and the PO endgame/big chunk of the core story. But to try to create another Lucas-type fiasco after the epic togetherness of old because of it? Rather than talk to Peter – conquer your fear again – and get those answers you were looking for? I expected more from you, Olivia…or rather the Two Headed Monster.

          And why will I not be surprised that not only will Olivia be forgiven en masse for asking Kennedy out (as opposed to the en masse response to Peter’s ‘cheating’); but that the Blue-Leeham folks (and Anna Torv) will be annoyingly estatic?

          But I will, as well, watch my still beloved show until whatever will pass for an end. Which I greatly hope we get: be it bitter, or sweet, or somewhere in between.

          Until then I’ll hope-against-some-of-the-facts that the hypothesis of this being a seperate third and fourth universe is the truth; and that Peter – and us – can get back to where he once belonged (to paraphrase The Beatles). Hopefully using the BBM – which was finally referenced again; I think answering how far ahead of what we saw in the Future/Greyverse Peter saw before coming back. Thanks bunches, BR.

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          • JM says

            WTF this is the first im hearing of “leeham” WTF lol!, they’ve actually made a name for them aswell? oh dear god fringe fandom stop! LOL “leeham” that made me chuckle!

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            • jewlz2214 says

              Yes. Started as the Red-Leeham pairing – which still exists I suppose – but has been overrun by what I should have more accurately called Orange-Leeham; since this would have no chance of existing in the Blueverse.

              JM, here’s another one for you: Pecoln
              Two camps: Unrequited or requited toward Peter.
              Bromance? Just watch Lincoln in ‘Stowaway’ again. LOL.

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          • JM says

            tbh i was absoloutely non-plussed as to how bad the writing for Nina was, i know this wasnt written by jeff pinkner etc. but still, you just dont expect that bad writing on a show of this caliber

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            • J.P. says

              It was co-written by JR Orci, one of the show’s earliest writers who left after season one. Aside from being Roberto Orci’s younger brother, I really enjoyed the episodes he wrote before. Can’t say the same now…

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            • FringeFriday says

              and how unrealistic was the fact, that it took Walter 24 years to tell Nina he hates her because he thinks she was the reason Peter died. and Nina never asked why he hated her???

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          • says

            I have to concede that every time Nina is in the frame, that there is no one more important than her in front of the camera. My eye immediately goes to her. I think that she is a real fashionista as well.

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        • J.P. says

          Haha, sorry! Was typing too fast, and didn’t consider that there may be some people on Fringe Bloggers who haven’t been informed. Although, there is a story regarding *SPOILER’S* return a few articles back from here. Of course, Roco always warns those who don’t want to spoiled with a spoiler warning. My apologies!

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          • Jen says

            I personally am avoiding spoilers because I was hoping they were atleast partially to blame for my disappointment with this season so far. But no worries. [spoiler removed - ed]

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      • J.P. says

        Exactly! We need good ol’ Charlie Francis BACK! Hopefully, *SPOILER* (I guess I didn’t realize not everybody had read FB’s recent story regarding *SPOILER’S* return) will “save” the show. Maybe he’ll be this big “something” we’re all hoping for.
        Ugh… lot’s not even speak of the “Soul Magnets” arc again… Ever.
        I really hate how Lincoln’s become such an important character within five episodes. Why’s he partnered with Olivia, after five weeks on the job? Since when does a new recruit have enough authority to sit in on super-secret interrogations? I get that he helped close a case in “Neither Here Nor There”, but I don’t like it. At all.

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    • g33k says

      There are SO many points you make, but I’m just going to focus on one for this reply:

      I don’t understand why so many people see Olivia asking Lincoln out to dinner as going on a ‘date’. I saw her as just trying to help. I think he really wasn’t doing well having not caught his dead ex-partner’s killer for the second time in a row, especially after thinking the killer was dead the first time around.

      I thought she was asking him to dinner because she wanted to help him focus on something normal rather than go off and be morose on his own.

      And before people say ‘why didn’t she ever ask Peter out to dinner before in the earlier seasons’ well asking Peter would basically be asking Walter to go out as well, or having Walter-you-can-wear-my-purple-tux-for-the-wedding pry into their business. Plus Astrid would have to watch Walter… remember Jacksonville? Too much trouble!

      I have to say I’m liking this reset, although somber, I find the character motivations and reactions spot on. I do think this arc has been planned from the beginning, I think the proof to that is in Brown Betty.

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      • J.P. says

        Good points. I do think it’s pretty useless for us to try and get into the character’s “mindset”. That’s something that is interesting, but also quite annoying — not knowing what any character wants, what their thinking, how they’re handling this. I feel like this episode was masked with some bad dialogue and a weird plot. Either way, as I’ve said before, I’ll watch Fringe to the end.

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      • alexis says

        this is the feeling i got also. it makes me sick just the thought of an olivia/lincoln romance or a new triangle, but it actually didn’t bother me that olivia asked lincoln to go out to dinner precisely because the way she said it and the situation made it clear (or so i thought) that she wasn’t asking him out on a date, but rather as a friend who’s trying to help.

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      • scully8 says

        Bravo . . . I totally agree with you on all counts. I actually said basically the same thing on another blog earlier today (not as eloquently sp??? as you, of course).

        Peter and Olivia will eventually get together, it’s in the show’s dna. In the meantime, I believe the reset is a good thing — although I could do without Lincoln . . . :-)

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      • ObservetteMARCH says

        @g33k Finally someone sensible with a normal comment. I was starting to get this sickening feeling that I had accidentally crossed into a blog about “The Bold And The Beautiful”. All of these comments sound like a bunch of whiney teenage girls complaining about who’s sleeping with who, who’s lost too much weight and who wore the least fashion savvy outfit, all while trying to use (or should I say misuse) as many “big” words as possible to appear older then 15. Thank heavens for your comment and the fact that you’re mature enough to get this episode.

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        • g33k says

          You know what? I’m just as grateful for yours!!! I don’t LIKE being annoying to people and I don’t understand how I was, I actually came back here today to post a big ‘sorry I was annoying I’ll try not to understand the character I’m watching by trying to understand their mindset’ and now even I type it I’m realizing I’m second guessing myself horribly because why wouldn’t I want to understand the character in a character based drama? I mean really!

          I’m surprised by the amount of ‘O M G oh no not a relationship’ stuff is being posted too. I think its a combination of people who prefer NOT to have romance in their sci-fi and want it ‘pure’ and those that are just rooting for the main characters to get together, which they OBVIOUSLY are because the producers have said it over and over in interviews.

          To me this whole Lincoln/Olivia thing is essentially a non-issue. People just need to get over the fact this is a show for many people, so its going to have many elements to it. Obviously not all of them are going to be what you as a individual want, but for me it sure hits a lot of sweet spots more than anything else on television. Ever.

          Sorry for the rant but lately selfish people have been bugging me…everywhere!

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          • J.P. says

            @g33k ” I don’t LIKE being annoying to people and I don’t understand how I was, I actually came back here today to post a big ‘sorry I was annoying I’ll try not to understand the character I’m watching by trying to understand their mindset’ and now even I type it I’m realizing I’m second guessing myself horribly because why wouldn’t I want to understand the character in a character based drama? I mean really!”
            Like ObservetteMARCH, you fail to understand my simple point. Come on people, everyone has a DIFFERENT opinion. You and I share diffferent opinions on Lincoln and Olivia’s “relationship”. You and ObservetteMARCH haven’t, or haven’t been able to, discount anything else I’ve said, but just decided to attack my opinion because you disagree with what the characters were thinking at that specific moment in the episode.
            I didn’t call YOU “annoying”, I said that the show’s blatant lack of answers is annoying.
            “To me this whole Lincoln/Olivia thing is essentially a non-issue”
            You’re absolutely right, it is a “non-issue”, or at least, it would have been a “non-issue” last season, because season three was actually interesting, and the pace never slowed. But, because, as everyone’s agreed, season four is nowhere near season three in terms of pace and dramatic tension, us fans are making non-issues into issues. Because let’s face it — the biggest character development has been between Lincoln and Olivia, something none of us wanted nor hoped for coming into season four.
            That’s my complaint. This season holds no comparrision to the previous masterpiece that was season three.
            “Sorry for the rant but lately selfish people have been bugging me…everywhere!”
            It’s not at all my business to pry into your own personal life, and I feel sorry for you if “selfish people are bugging you”. But, as this entire thread is a response to my original comment, I have to ask — do you believe that I am “selfish”? If so, I’d ask what on Earth gives you that assumption?
            So, as you can see, you and ObservetteMARCH share similar feelings, but clearly did not understand anything I’ve said. I hope the two of you read this reply, and might want to be a little more respectful of people’s opinons — not necessarily you, g33k, but ObservetteMARCH, especially. Maybe it was my “misuse of as many “big” words as possible to appear older than 15″ (oh, and it’s “than”, not “then”, by the way).

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            • g33k says

              okay, ‘selfish’, bad word choice I admit, and admittedly more to do with other things that would spoil the show on an ongoing basis for me that were on my mind from other places. And then of course the spoiler you had included in the bottom of your post… SO ARRRRGGHH (general frustration)

              However,

              “I do think it’s pretty useless for us to try and get into the character’s “mindset”. That’s something that is interesting, but also quite annoying — not knowing what any character wants, what their thinking, how they’re handling this.”

              Look I don’t like it when people are too focused on this or that aspect of the series that I may not like when we are all trying to discuss things, but I accept that people see things different ways and well, when you said that looking at things that way was pretty useless and annoying… well I’m sorry friend I just couldn’t read your mind to debate things with you in exactly the way you want to hear it. One person’s useless is another person’s treasure I guess.

              You called that annoying, but then, well, I didn’t like how you argued that the writers are stuck in polar bear cages and didn’t know what to do so they erased Peter. I didn’t feel like you had any basis behind it and it was more of a rant. For the record I disagree because when you look at Brown Betty you have Olivia’s life being saved, followed by a “Hi you don’t know me but I’m Peter Bishop, let me fill you in” conversation in an empty house that used to be Peter and Walter’s home. If that isn’t foreshadowing the setup to this whole scenario from way back at the end of season 2 I don’t know what is. This was all planned way ahead of time.

              So, because of your comment, it seemed like you felt you could express your opinion your way, but my way is pretty useless? THAT was the crux of my problem with your reply.

              Look, I’m not interested in getting into a flaming war or anything here, but you asked what gave me that assumption (of my bad word choice – selfish) and that was it.

              Also, whenever I see you write ‘clearly you did not understand anything I’ve said’ that gets my hackles up. For anybody. That puts your reply in a pretty condescending place and its not very polite. I’m sure you don’t mean it that way, but in the interest of communicating smoothly, I thought I would mention it while we were on the topic.

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              • jewlz2214 says

                @J.P. I believe that ObservetteMARCH’s comment about “misuse of as many “big″ words as possible to appear older than 15″ was meant for me and my admittedly and shamefully erroneous use of “en masse”. I knew it wasn’t the word I wanted as I typed it; but I needed to finish my thought. I guess you’re not the only one with a supposed brain/finger barrier disability. LOL.

                @ObservetteMARCH So I have to thank you for verifying this ‘en masse’ error. I have to plead tiredness at the time. You wouldn’t know this about me; but I normally have a good grasp on the usage, spelling, pronunciation, and definition of the many “big words″ that I use daily.

                I also want to thank you for pointing out that I appeared to you to be a “whiney teenage girl” – which I haven’t been for quite some time now. A 15 year old, I mean. I was never whiny, nor did I indulge in the associated activities you mentioned…at least at the time, I guess. But you wouldn’t know that. I’m absolutely mortified that I gave that impression to anybody. Sorry.

                And I’m mature enough to apologize to anybody I might have offended in any way with my post as I’m re-reading it. It got a lot of ‘likes’ (a function which I’m loving BTW) for one reason or another and I thank them for liking what I said, if perhaps not how I said it. It seemed a lot more intelligent, eloquent, and amusing in my head.

                Of the many points I wanted to talk about, I chose the Lincoln/Olivia thing to focus on for want of time; and the fact that it was scaring me as a possible unwanted obstacle to the established endgame – as I elaborated on in a post further down.
                You want to talk about ‘Many Worlds Theory’ and how Peter possibly got there?, how great an actor John Noble is? How heartbreaking this storyline is for Peter – and Olivia and Walter even though they don’t know it? Olivia’s inner deja vu detector and how I hope it will involve her perception of Peter? How the shapeshifters continue to be figuratively and literally humanized, with Nadine being yet another in a long line of living weapons that started in S1? How some fans are going to react to Peter’s new choices in outerwear?

                I got the episode, I get the series. I watch it and love it for all the above reasons; and the so much more being discussed here that was presented in this episode alone. Mature or not.
                When I love something, I praise the heck out of it. When I gripe, I gripe because I care. That’s who I am. And now you know.

                Like: Thumb up 3

              • J.P. says

                Firstly, I once again apologize for my final spoiler. The same story is a number of articles back from this one, which one looks at with his/her discretion. Completely my fault, and I apologize.

                Again, I could’ve been clearer with my “mindset” comments, which made you misunderstand what I meant to say. So yes, I included the “clearly you don’t understand anything I’ve said” because your comment made me believe the very same — although it all could have been erased, so to speak, if I had elaborated further. So, the fault’s on me.

                “For the record I disagree because when you look at Brown Betty you have Olivia’s life being saved, followed by a “Hi you don’t know me but I’m Peter Bishop, let me fill you in”

                Okay, understandable. I, too, have also noticed obvious parallels between Brown Betty and Peter’s current predicament, but there may be something to discount it. I’ve read several interviews between both Pinkner and Wyman in which they admitted that they were hesitant to go forth with the season 3 cliffhanger, before allowing Josh Jackson to come in and work on it with them. It was JJ who agreed to let the cliffhanger happen. Now, none of us know WHEN these meetings to decide the cliffhanger took place, whether it was before or after Brown Betty. Perhaps you’re missing the point, perhaps it was Brown Betty that gave them the idea for Peter to be erased. Either way, the odds are we’ll never know when it happened.

                “So, because of your comment, it seemed like you felt you could express your opinion your way, but my way is pretty useless? THAT was the crux of my problem with your reply.”

                Oh, not at all. As you’ve admitted that “selfish” was the wrong word, I’ll admit that “useless” was the wrong word, just judging by the feedback it’s gotten. Again, it all ties back to the differing opinions between you and I, and everyone else on this forum. We could go on for weeks arguing about Olivia and Lincoln, and their meaning behind their actions during those few minutes, and in the end, it would be a complete waste of time, as no one would be able to prove they were right, or wrong.

                Once again, I apologize for confusing you. It was my fault, not yours. You acted the best way you saw fit, and I applaud you for it.

                Like: Thumb up 3

            • ObservetteMARCH says

              @J.P. You are soooo missing the point here, I shouldn’t even bother to reply to your comments anymore. So, I’ll give it ONE more go: Let’s just agree to disagree because you and I will obviously NEVER see eye to eye. I don’t respect your so called “opinions” because you keep bagging the crap out of my favorite show. Bagging and belittling does not even come close to “opinion” or even constructive criticism in my book. Also please do not refer to yourself as “us fans” because you are 1 person. In fact in my opinion you do not deserve to even call yourself a fan. Your comments are full of extremely negative criticism and my biggest problem after reading them is that YOU seem to be totally missing the point with this show, with what it is actually about. You also keep contradicting everything you say comment after comment. Not only are you terribly negative about season 4 (which is not the only season you’ve expressed anger and dissatisfaction towards) but every time I read your comments your so far of the mark that it really makes me wonder if you EVER got this show? Yes I am sure you will disagree with me, but I am just being honest with how you come across to me in your comments. It’s as if you just love to HATE Fringe and the only reason you watch it is so that you can come here and comment about all the things that YOU hated about the episode. Maybe you should take up fan fiction and write your own version of this show? I don’t know. One thing I do know however, is that I will not be reading your comments anymore. I find them offensive towards the show that I love and I don’t like the fact that I find myself having to justify why I love Fringe or having to defend it to someone who doesn’t even seem to understand it. So Yes, I will apologize. I am very sorry J.P. but I honestly do not like what you have to say about Fringe and I will not be reading your negative rants from now on.

              Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 13

              • ObservetteMARCH says

                @jewlz2214 The big words/15 year old thing was not meant for you at all and I am sorry that you thought it was.

                I absolutely LOVE your reply to me though. That is what I call: mature, constructive, on point, honest and actually very impressive. You have really stated your case clearly and I have no doubt in my mind that you totally get the show. The following alone confirms that:

                “Of the many points I wanted to talk about, I chose the Lincoln/Olivia thing to focus on for want of time; and the fact that it was scaring me as a possible unwanted obstacle to the established endgame – as I elaborated on in a post further down.
                You want to talk about ‘Many Worlds Theory’ and how Peter possibly got there?, how great an actor John Noble is? How heartbreaking this storyline is for Peter – and Olivia and Walter even though they don’t know it? Olivia’s inner deja vu detector and how I hope it will involve her perception of Peter? How the shapeshifters continue to be figuratively and literally humanized, with Nadine being yet another in a long line of living weapons that started in S1? How some fans are going to react to Peter’s new choices in outerwear?”

                I love love loved your reply and it is now very clear to me that you definitely know the difference between constructive (with a spoonful of tasteful humor) criticism and negative rants that borderline on hatred towards Fringe. I can also tell that even if and when you might be critical about something, it comes from a good place. It’s because you love the show and don’t want to see it go downhill.
                So again, I definitely wasn’t referring to you regarding the “big” words or immaturity.
                Thanks for the reply though, you definitely put a smile on my face. All the respect to you my fellow Fringe fan.

                Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 12

                • jewlz2214 says

                  @ObservetteMARCH
                  You get me! You got to know me. And I got to know you. I’m glad your post wasn’t directed at me. Apology gladly accepted. I’m embarassed I thought it was. I’m glad you were able to read between the lines in my vaguely cranky/snarky reply post. I’m glad that, other than that, I did in fact come across as well on screen as I did in my head. As did you. You made me smile, too. Thanks.

                  I guess we all could call this incident an object lesson – as opposed to an abject lesson – about defensively reacting to taking offense, even if none was meant. Glad to to be of service. LOL.

                  @J.P. and @ObservetteMARCH
                  With all due respect that I have towards, and agreements that I have with, the both of my fellow Fringe fans:
                  If I may throw my OHM into the fray that I unwittingly inserted myself into in the first place; since it is indeed coming from a at least well-meaning place in my Fringie heart. Which I hope you both understand. Please?

                  I’ve been reminded lately of that first S4 scene between the two Olivias. They’re both uncomfortable around each other; each for their own different and similiar and legitimate reasons. One handles it with an introverted simmering bitterness…the other is all extroverted bluster and snark. And yet they’re both Olivia; reacting to the same situation, that has caused the same feelings. But their personalities are shaped by different life experiences (I’m not assigning personas BTW – only Fringe examples).
                  And that’s not factoring in the fans – I mean the Olivias – possibly having very different feelings toward the exact same situation. Which in regards to a show that is all about perception, is really profoundly funny if you think about it.

                  Peace. Love…and out.

                  Like: Thumb up 2

              • J.P. says

                Well, it saddens me that a fellow, dare I say it… “fan” (which is now synonymous with “the one who doesn’t bother to read into the show at all, and just watches it without any deeper observation”) believes me to simply “love to hate the show”. Trust me, that’s not it at all. If you actually “got” my comments, you’d realize that, as I’ve stressed repeatedly, I will always love the show, and my “negative rants” are my way of wondering why I feel longing for more during this fourth season. Because yes, I have “gotten the show”, but season four has had me questioning the fundamental principles the show has been based around for three seasons. Let me elaborate further, as some of my comments have admittedly garned confusion from the reader:

                The show, plain and simple, is about three characters. Olivia, Peter and Walter. It’s about their emotional growth together. How, at the beginning, each had a “significant piece missing”, before the others were able to, slowly but surely, fill in those missing pieces. The show, furthermore, is about a father’s love for his child. It’s about what someone would do for a loved one. It’s about the love, loyalty, betrayal, and conflict between these three characters. I’ve always understood that. Now, if you do decide to reply back to me (and I’d welcome it, because I enjoy reading your comments, I really do. They make me reconsider my stand, and help me craft a better, and hopefully more respected, “opinion”), and attempt to discount what the show’s meaning is, then I will be forced to conclude that YOU know nothing of the show. But, I sincerely hope that’s not the case, that you do understand the show like you claim to.

                Now, onto why I “negatively rant”. Because, the entire dynamic of the show has changed. Peter was erased from time, for starters. Before season four arrived, I welcomed this new storyline. Like many others, I was sick of the constant “Peter vs Olivia” fan arguments. As anyone who “gets the show” would agree, Peter is the KEY to the entire series. He’s the reason for the war between the Other Side, the Machine, and the Bridge, but more importantly, he’s the reason for Walter’s slow transition back to sanity, and Olivia’s transition from, as many critics have called her, “wooden and distant”, into a strong and loving woman who is not affraid to move forward anymore. I had hoped that, once seeing a world without Peter, and fully understanding the massive effect he’s had on the characters, the “Peter” fans would finally realize that he is the key. And, because Peter’s the key, I trust in the producers that he will also be the reason for everything returning back to normal — the timeline being “restored”, so to speak. I’ve never worried about that. I truly believe that the show will, albeit eventually, return to the original timeline “you fans” have loved for three years.

                Some others have agreed to sit back and accept this new timeline until we go back to the way things were before — a noble and respectable goal. Others have accepted that the timeline may never be restored, and agree to love this new world for what it is, as, in their respected opinions, it’s what we’ll be stuck with until the series ends. For me, however, I sit back and “negatively” wonder what’s happened to the same show I’ve followed loyally for three years. My favorite show. The show that I’ve never, before now, been in doubt regarding it’s meaning. Before, the show was about the relationship between Olivia, Peter and Walter. Now, someone like you could argue that the show still is about that relationship, albeit the relationship has changed. Again, I welcomed that “changed relationship” — a chance to view the series in a different way, as Pinkner and Wyman have promised we, or “you fans”, would be able to. I welcomed all of it. Until, however, I watched “Neither Here Nor There”. And, I watched it again, and again, and again. Every time, a new issue arose, whether big or small.

                Now, I’m pleased that everyone is aware of my distaste for good ol’ Lincoln. But, not everyone is aware of WHY I distaste him. I distaste him because his purpose on Fringe is completely different from anyone else’s purpose. He’s here as the audience’s “eyes”. He was an attempt to gain new viewers during this fourth season, a goal that I obviously accepted, knowing Fringe’s ratings issues. I accepted his integration into the main cast up until “Neither Here Nor There”. His “relationship” with Olivia, whether it’s platonic or more romantic, feels awkward. When Charlie Francis was on the show, especially during the first season, nobody questioned whether or not he had feelings for Olivia, becuase the relationship was just natural. I applaud Anna Torv and Kirk Acevedo, for presenting us with a friendly and respectable relationship with no “romantic” meaning behind it. Can “you fans” say the same for Lincoln and Olivia’s relationship? Some, like you, ObservetteMARCH, argue that there is no romantic meaning behind it, while others, like me, argue that there is. The truth is — whether there is, or isn’t a romantic relationship between the two, it doesn’t matter. What matters that it has caused such a fuss, and that all of “you fans” spend more time focusing on that, than focusing on the bigger picture. Yes, I’m one of those people, as well, although now I’m known as the “former fan”. The former fan who focused on Olivia and Lincoln too much. I admit that I did, and still do, as all of my “negative rants” have something to do with Lincoln. But still, I, the former fan, also realize something else, something not many have either wanted to notice, or didn’t bother to comment on…

                Olivia and Lincoln’s “relationship” has been given the largest amount of development, far surpassing anything regarding the “season’s biggest mystery, ‘Where Is Peter Bishop?’” Now, I ask you, and all the other members of Fringe Bloggers — when coming into season four, were you hoping for five fast-paced, epic, mysterious opening episodes, along the lines of seasons past, and learning more and more about Peter, or were you hoping for five slow episodes, that have given us hardly nothing on “the season’s biggest mystery”, but are all full of Olivia and Lincoln’s relationship development?

                I can’t speak for everyone, but I know that I was hoping for the former. That’s why I distaste Lincoln so much — his character’s been given more development than anyone else, and his “relationship” with Olivia is the biggest thing that’s happened so far. “No, that’s not true! Peter’s return was the biggest thing that’s happened so far”, one could say. Oh, really? If it was, then Peter’s return would have been incredibly impactul, and not just a plot device to uncover information regarding shape-shifters. And, if it was, then you fans and this one former fan wouldn’t be criticizing each other over Lincoln and Olivia, and we’d see past their “relationship”. But no, we haven’t. So, for the last time on this “negative rant”, Lincoln’s relationship with Olivia, and Lincoln’s development as a character, has been completely overshadowing the show that I love so much.

                That’s why I feel “stuck”, why I don’t particularly love this season, but I also don’t hate it. ObservetteMARCH, if I hated this season, and if I wasn’t a true fan, I would’ve given up on it after the first episode. But no, I won’t. I’ll never give up on the show I’ve watched for three years, just out of respect of the past seasons. Because, I have hope that soon, my favorite character’s won’t be plot devices to learn more information on villains, and that former recurring character’s won’t get more development than any other storyline. I hope for those things, because I am a “true fan”.

                For all the times you’ve referred to my comments as “terribly negative”, I’ll remind you to read the opening lines in my first comment on this forum. “I’m writing this letter to you now full of admiration and respect, but with a large hint of dread”. You catch that first part — “admiration and respect”? That alone should show you that even if I’m down on the show, I’ll always remain loyal to it. I’ll reference Schwakamole, a very respectful blogger, who said that he knows that I, and anyone else who shares similar feelings, will never give up, nor hate, the show, just because of how we write our comments. You seem to not understand that I’ll never hate this show, despite how many times I remind people. And, if you reply, could you remind me as to when I constantly “contradict myself”?

                Now, as a closing paragraph, I’ll admit that you are a very talented debater, ObservetteMARCH. I am sorry to have offended your own opinion, and I am sorry that you believe me to be nothing more than someone who calls themself a fan but really holds no understanding of this show. Once again, I fully welcome another reply from you, but if you don’t want to reply, for whatever reasons, I won’t hold it against you. Just as you’ve said “sorry” to me, I’ll say it back to you. Sorry for all the confusion I’ve caused, and I’m sorry for expecting something more from your favorite show. I can see how it could offend you — my desire for a greater season, because you seem to love it just fine, and have no problems with it.
                I wish you all the best.

                Like: Thumb up 4

          • ObservetteMARCH says

            @g33k You have NOTHING to apologize for or feel bad about. You are spot on with your observations and interpretations my friend. Reading your comments is a pleasure for me. I agree with you 100%.

            Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 11

    • number six says

      Hmmmmm, what? After 3 seasons you are surprised Olivia was hitting on a co-worker? Wasn’t it established, that she will try to shag all of her non-married partners? The supposed special relationship between Peter and Olivia began, after he became a partner. If he had remained in the lab or done his own stuff, do you think she would have looked at him twice? ;-)

      Does Olivia have a pattern or is she the pattern? :D

      Like: Thumb up 2

    • kidentropia says

      @JP: Agree with you in a lot of topics, man. While i´ve perhaps enjoyed season 4 a little more than you (for example, i feel One Night in October is a very fine Fringe episode, maybe on par with some of the best [though not White Tulip or Peter or Jacksonville best, of course!]), i definitely concur that Novation was a very bland episode; and if this is the way things are going to be from now on, i´m not as excited as i should be about the show. For christsake, Peter´s back! His reintroduction should´ve been more impactful! I understand that, from an in-universe(s) point of view, the characters are all extremely careful about this very strange man who claims to be Walter´s long dead son; and that´s essentially a nice way to go, but you have to know how to play it. He was essentially a plot instrument; and with the exception of that final scene with Walter (which i have to admit was very powerful, in an extremely subtle way) Peter´s return seemed to have no emotional impact whatsoever, Again, i understand (or at least i think i do) that the writers are trying to show us the very cautious reaction the characters are having in front of this man, but there are ways in which you can do this while also hinting at the great repercusions his apparition has/will have. Peter´s nonexistence at the end of season 3 seemed to open many storytelling possibilities, and the little snippets that had been shown in the first few episodes of s4 were nice and promising (if sometimes too heavy handed) regarding the consequences of his absence, but… you know what? i think i can summarize my disappointment in one phrase: there was no click. there was no thrill, there was no fanboy little yell when the characters were exposed to Peter. again, with the exception of that final moment when Walter holds Peter´s head. Let´s hope this has just been a stumbling first batch of episodes, a relatively bad way of introducing a new era of the show, and not the shape of things to come (yeah, i totally stole that phrase from Roco AND Lost). Here´s hoping that Fringe will find its rhythm back again

      Like: Thumb up 4

      • J.P. says

        Yep, we share the same feelings. All we can really ask now is that Fringe returns to its roots. Hopefully, we’ll be back on the right track a few episodes from now.

        Like: Thumb up 3

        • ObservetteMARCH says

          @J.P. Wow! For someone who a few comments earlier expressed so much disappointment, anger and seemed to have lost all faith in this season of Fringe (or as you see it: “The Bold And The Beautiful”) you’ve sure come around quickly. Maybe next time we hear from you, you’ll be shouting: “I love Lincoln Lee!!!” from mountain tops. Well, good to know that you stick to your guns and have such strong non-contradictory opinions. Maybe eventually your mind will catch up with your “fast typing” and you’ll come around to thinking before you type. Note: The human brain is a magnificent thing if used properly.

          Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 12

          • J.P. says

            @ObservetteMARCH…
            You clearly do not understand what I’m trying to say. In all of my comments, whilst expressing “so much disappointment, anger and seeming to have lost all faith in this season of Fringe”, I continuously stress that I’ll never stop watching the show, and that I have, and hopefully will again soon, “love” the show. Maybe you should put a little more thought into your “reply”, which reads more and more like a personal attack against me. For the hundredth time, it’s MY opinion, nothing more.
            So, the question is — who’s the bigger “whiner”, the one who always reminds people his opinions are simply his opinions and is always respectful to everybody else, or you, the one who tries to make me seem like a teenaged girl watching soap operas? Seriously, you’ve taken away anything “useful” from this forum, and YOU are now sounding like a “Bold And The Beautiful” viewer.

            Like: Thumb up 3

    • FringeFriday says

      Olivia. Even if Anna Torv WAS incredible, she’s lost her glory.
      To be honest, I don’t really like this version of Olivia. She feels so bitter and seems to have lots of trust issues. BUT I understand that she has to be another version of our known Olivia. She never had Peter in her life, he made her what she was in S3. We have to deal with that Olivia for now, but I hope she will connect with Peter again.

      About Peter:
      Halfway through the ep I thought… well we have our Peter back, what what the heck is up with him? How can someone deal so easily and quickly with the fact that he is imprisoned and unknown and still be so cool, even being a smart-ass!

      Don’t get me wrong, I loved the season so far, but this episode was so the worst so far. I didn’t feel the dialogues, I didn’t feel the storyline…

      Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 12

      • FringeFriday says

        I know what as missing, the fun element… there is always a scene with Walter or Astrid when you have to laugh out!!! That was totally missing!

        Like: Thumb up 6

        • J.P. says

          Yes! The excitement’s gone! And because of that, the acting’s stepped down, along with the creativity. I didn’t like the dialogue — it was lazilly written and acted, and the storyline was below the recent “below average” standard season four’s given us. How unfortunate.

          Like: Thumb up 2

    • Dylan says

      It’s sad to admit that you are not alone in those feelings.

      I’ll watch, but every time I do now it is with disappointment of Fringe not being what it was and should be, but being something else… something less

      Like: Thumb up 3

      • J.P. says

        I completely agree, Dylan. I’m in an odd place right now — I don’t particuarilly “love” the show at this point, but I could never stop watching it.

        Like: Thumb up 3

    • PES says

      I agree on many parts, J.P.

      I actually enjoyed the episode until Lincoln Lee showed up and just thought: “You ruined it, Lincoln. Do all of us a favour and just DIE”.

      I don’t like the “new” storyline about shapeshifters. We already had that multiple times and it’s getting boring.

      I found Peter’s interactions downright disappointing. He completely ignores Olivia and acts like a tired old man.
      “You have to help me Walter! No wait, don’t hurry, it’s acutally quite comfortable here.”

      Honestly, I usually love Nina. But this time…her conversation with Lincoln and Olivia felt very strange…Lincoln destroys everything :D

      Hope the Observers erase him SOON!

      Like: Thumb up 3

    • mlj102 says

      Wow. Where to start? I guess I’ll just say it: I completely disagree with everything you said here. I’ll admit that the last couple of episodes have been lacking a bit for me, but I still enjoyed them, and I felt this episode was a return to the Fringe I love. I thought it was a fantastic episode. So, let me respond to a few of the points you made:

      “Olivia’s become, again, at least to me, a boring, two-dimensional character, who will take the first chance she can get to cuddle up next to the attractive new coworker. I mean, seriously! I would’ve expected that it was Lincoln who’d ask her to dinner first, not OLIVIA DUNHAM!”

      Oh, I don’t think so. I still don’t get “romantic attraction” vibes from Olivia’s interactions with Lincoln. And I suppose that could be because I’m in denial that they would possibly consider going that route, but I just don’t see it. I’ve seen it in Lincoln (which is why I thought it was a bit odd that it was absent in this episode) but not from Olivia’s side. She’s even said in no uncertain terms that she doesn’t want to go down that road. I don’t expect her to take any initiative with a relationship with Lincoln. The whole dinner invitation in this episode was simply her trying to be kind. She could see that Lincoln was preoccupied and bothered by the case and she was trying to help him move past that. It’s what any good coworker or partner would do. I don’t think we need to start concluding that every innocent comment or action is evidence of a budding romance.

      “And, I really don’t care at all about her past with Nina Sharp. It’s a useless filler (in my opinion)”

      I find the connection with Nina Sharp to be quite fascinating. It’s an interesting “what if” or “could have been” concept. In the earlier seasons Olivia and Nina had a very unique sort of relationship. Nina always seemed rather protective and fond of Olivia, not to mention that she seemed to have been keeping a close eye on Olivia, so it’s easy to see that in different circumstances, she could have intervened and become a guardian to Olivia. I actually really like that subtle shift in the dynamic between the two of them. It’s still very much the same, yet obviously closer. And I’m interested to get a better idea of what that relationship is and how that has affected Olivia.

      “I thought that Peter would be the one character I could actually relate to in this new season, but I’m sorry, I’m not digging this new Peter.”

      I don’t see how he’s a “new Peter”. He still seems like the same Peter to me. Unable to interact with the people he cares about and trying to figure out what’s going on and what to do, but still the same Peter. His actions in this episode seemed logical and reasonable enough to me. He had to do something to get them to start trusting him and working with him. What else is he supposed to do? Sit in that room as a prisoner doing nothing? I actually expected a lot of people to be thrilled that we finally came back to the whole decoding the shapeshifter discs thing.

      “Oh, really? There’s nothing mysterious about a man claiming to be Walter Bishop’s 25-year dead son turning up alive, even if he wasn’t in YOUR head?”

      I think you’re missing the point here. She wasn’t trying to say that it wasn’t odd or something significant that someone claiming to be Walter’s son suddenly appeared. The purpose of her comment was that his appearance is affecting her on a personal level because she had seen him in her dreams. She was saying that it made sense that Walter had been seeing Peter, because if he really is his son, they would have that connection, but she doesn’t know why she would have seen him in her dreams as well. She doesn’t know what possible connection there could be between her and this mystery man that would justify her seeing him as well. I think that’s a reasonable reaction for her to have. Definitely qualifies as unsettling and would explain her hesitation and reluctance around him.

      “Why can’t Fringe just answer a question completely, instead of seeming like the producers are still stuck in the polar bear cages? You know why? Because, they ARE still stuck in the polar bear cages. The producers didn’t know where to take the show, so they erased Peter Bishop, threw in Lincoln Lee to gain some more viewers, and after realizing that didn’t work, got stuck again.”

      I really, really don’t think the producers are “stuck”. I think this episode was a logical continuation of the story they’ve been setting up, and I think it was a brilliant way to establish where the story is going. I loved the follow up with the shapeshifters, how Peter got involved, and the connection between Walter’s feelings of crossing the line, and the lesson Dr. Truss learned in this episode. Fringe has always been a show to slowly give out answers while bringing up new questions. I watch these episodes and the way the events unfold and it seems to me that the producers have a very clear picture of where they’re going. But we’re not going to see that whole picture all in one episode.

      Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 39

      • JM says

        Even though we have differing opinions, your constructive and insightful arguments have made me see things in this episode in a new light :)

        Like: Thumb up 4

      • J.P. says

        Some very good stuff here. I hope you guys don’t think I hate Fringe — I try my very best to convey my love for the show, even if that love’s been shaken recently. And also, I try hard to always remind people that these are simply MY OWN OPINIONS, which are obviously quite different from yours. I don’t want anyone to believe that I think of myself as the only person who knows what’s going on with this show, if anyone is wondering.

        Now, it’s clear that we see Olivia, Lincoln, Peter and Nina in different ways. So, there’s no point in me trying to start a debate with you over them.
        I included those quotes from Nina and Olivia to simply express my disappointment regarding the writing for the episode. It seemed bland, again… IN MY OPINION. There’s no point in us trying to understand what each character was thinking when they said what they said — as that is how ridiculous arguments are always formed.

        Onto Nina and Olivia’s closer relationship: your opinion is your opinion, and a respected one at that. To me, it IS a useless filler, because I don’t care about that at all. The only thing in this new timeline that has ever kept me emotionally invested was Walter, and that’s begun to dwindle as well. I want the mythology to progress further and further, and not spend time on a one-sentence backstory – “Nina raised Olivia. ‘Nuff said.” It seems a little outlandish to me that all these changes happened because Peter died as a boy. But, I’m willing to bet that we’ll never understand why Peter’s non-existence forced Olivia and Nina closer together, which is another one of my problems. We’ll never know any answers, if the show continues down this track.

        You quoted me on the “polar bear cages” connection, and then criticized it. You failed to either read my earlier comment, “I get why mysteries are as important in a show as complex as Fringe, but come on! Now, the remaining episodes will all be about figuring out why Peter’s here, one tiny morsel at a time” or didn’t bother to understand it. I completely get and agree that Fringe needs to answer questions slowly — for the dramatic element. The anticipation is what keeps us fans hanging for more. My problem with this season’s answers, or lack thereof, is that compared to last season, it hasn’t given us anything useful! In the opening five episodes of season three, we saw Olivia try to escape from the Other Side, become convinced she belonged there, and then had her faith shaken to the point that she realized she didn’t belong there at all — technically, that only happened in THREE EPISODES. Stuff actually HAPPENED in season three! It answered questions, whilst also raising new ones to get the viewers hooked. Now, THAT is interesting writing! It shows how epic, and yet mysterious, season three was. Can we say the same for season four? What did you really hope for coming into this season — finding out what happened to Peter, or some more case-of-the-week filler episodes, with the tiniest hints of Peter interlaced throughout them?
        For me, I actually thought the show would continue down it’s original season three blueprint and tell us what happened to Peter in an interesting, and not painfully boring way. I tuned into the four opening episodes hoping for more Peter, only to feel betrayed each time. I guess my biggest complaint is not that the show isn’t answering as many questions as it should, but it’s that the pace has been lowered significantly. They could’ve actually had some great case-of-the-week episodes (One Night In October was good in comparions to the others, but that isn’t saying much at all), perhaps dealing with the TRUCE with the Other Side, the Machine, the Observers, whilst raising more questions. Fringe is NOT a procedural show. Procedural shows follow boring formats, week in, week out. Fringe WAS a procedural show, and has recently reverted back to that old format. That’s why I think they are “stuck in the polar bear cages”, because instead of increasing the mythology weekly like before, they’ve given us Lincoln Lee and fungus.

        Still, you’ve made some great points, and I can see you truly do love Fringe. At least we can agree that it was fantastic, and I hope it returns to what I thought it was before.

        Like: Thumb up 3

        • mlj102 says

          “I hope you guys don’t think I hate Fringe — I try my very best to convey my love for the show, even if that love’s been shaken recently.”

          Certainly not. A frustrated fan, perhaps, but a fan nonetheless.

          “It seems a little outlandish to me that all these changes happened because Peter died as a boy. “

          But it makes sense to me. If Peter didn’t survive the trip over here, then he and Olivia never met. We know that when Olivia and Peter met as children, he helped convince Olivia into confiding in Walter about her stepfather, and Walter then intervened, which must have influenced Olivia’s childhood. As for how his absence caused Nina to step in, again, I don’t think it’s all too out there. As I mentioned, I’ve always gotten the sense that Nina seemed particularly fond of Olivia and as if she’d been keeping an eye on her. We also know that Nina seemed to have a sort of interaction or relationship with Peter when he was younger. Perhaps without Peter there, she instead focused more on Olivia’s childhood, thus explaining why she intervened when Olivia was going to be placed in foster care. It’s only one possible explanation, and it may not be the route they take it, but for now, it works for me. It just seems that there are plenty of factors that we aren’t even aware of that could be involved in making their relationship a result of Peter’s absence. I mean, it would seem a bit outlandish that Peter being alive could cause some complete stranger to die, all because he caught a firefly, but that’s exactly the idea that was suggested in The Firefly. I don’t see why that can’t be the case for other issues as well. One person has a wide-reaching effect. And I like that Fringe is exploring that because I think it’s a fascinating concept.

          “But, I’m willing to bet that we’ll never understand why Peter’s non-existence forced Olivia and Nina closer together, which is another one of my problems. We’ll never know any answers, if the show continues down this track.”

          But there’s no reason to conclude that at this point. If there’s one thing Fringe has taught me about watching Fringe, it’s to never discount anything as insignificant or something that won’t be revisited or explained. Those minor details have a way of resurfacing just when you least expect it. Sure, there are some things they may not explain, but there are plenty of things they do explore. It seems a bit short-sighted to be bitter about things like that at this point when we still have a full season to explore these ideas. And I know that you and others here feel like the writers/producers are wasting that time, but I disagree. I think they’re setting the stage in the way they need to in order to allow these things to have the greatest pay off possible.

          “You failed to either read my earlier comment… or didn’t bother to understand it.”

          I read it, and I think I understood it, but it seemed to contradict the other things you were saying, so I chose to elaborate on that idea. I was simply responding to the idea that the writers/producers have written themselves into a corner (or, perhaps cage might be a better word in this instance) and stating that I don’t get that impression. I think all of what has happened, including the matter of Peter’s nonexistence, was planned. I think they knew it would happen and they knew where they would go from there. I disagree with the idea that everything that’s happening is a result of them wandering around aimlessly, throwing out random plot twists, then trying to come up with something to resolve it. The show may not be moving at the pace that you or others would prefer, but I do think the pace at the moment is necessary.

          “The only thing in this new timeline that has ever kept me emotionally invested was Walter, and that’s begun to dwindle as well. I want the mythology to progress further and further, and not spend time on a one-sentence backstory – “Nina raised Olivia. ‘Nuff said.””

          But how do you expect to become emotionally invested in these characters and their stories if we don’t explore who they are and their histories? Like it or not, the fact that Olivia was essentially raised by Nina is a significant detail that would have impacted the person she became in a big way. It’s going to change the dynamic between them. And I imagine it’s going to continue to play a role in the show. People talk about how they want more and more mythology, but for me, the mythology is hollow if it doesn’t involve characters that I’m invested in, characters that are well developed. That was my biggest problem when I was trying to watch Lost. I didn’t care about any of the characters. There was no reason to be invested in them. There was just a bunch of mythology that never seemed to go anywhere. I don’t think Fringe would benefit from mythology at the expense of backstory and character development.

          “What did you really hope for coming into this season — finding out what happened to Peter, or some more case-of-the-week filler episodes, with the tiniest hints of Peter interlaced throughout them?…I tuned into the four opening episodes hoping for more Peter, only to feel betrayed each time.”

          What did I hope for? I hoped for Fringe to continue to provide episodes that strengthened the larger story, entertained and made me laugh, contained depths of emotion, developed characters, and explored themes and ideas that made me think. And while some episodes have been better than others, I think they’ve done pretty good at that.

          No offense – as you so wonderfully expressed it, your opinion is your opinion, and I certainly wouldn’t try to tell you your opinion is wrong or you can’t have your opinion – but it seems to me that your main focus is on what happened with Peter. And I understand that’s a huge element that holds a lot of interest. But there’s more to Fringe than that. And as far as Peter’s story goes, I say give it time. They had to establish what this world was like without Peter. Without that introduction, we would still be expecting the original characters and the original events, so we would be frustrated that that wasn’t coming through. I’m sure they will be addressing Peter and his significance and what’s going on in due time.

          “I guess my biggest complaint is not that the show isn’t answering as many questions as it should, but it’s that the pace has been lowered significantly.”

          I’ve essentially addressed this idea previously in this comment. I understand your frustration. Personally, I wasn’t all too fond of the fungus detour, either. But there were still important things to be gained from that episode. I don’t know how else to say it other than: be patient. Again, I understand that you love Fringe and that this is only your opinion, but give the show a bit of a break. The events taking place right now may seem boring or insignificant or like unnecessary detours from the more exciting matters, but I don’t see them that way. We’ve learned about the characters, established the threat of the new shapeshifters, reintroduced Peter, and a whole variety of other things. And that may not be going at the quick pace you would prefer it to go and it may not be addressing the topics you wish it would, but that doesn’t make what they’re doing insignificant. I still think the episodes and plots with the biggest rewards are the ones that were properly set up and established in the preceding episodes. And I think later episodes are going to pay off more because of what they’ve done here in the opening of the season.

          Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 15

          • J.P. says

            Your comments always help me see the show in new ways. Thank you! I do my best to be patient, and I admit that there was a ton of backstory they needed to lay before season four could “hit the ground running”, like season three. So, because of that lowered pace, I started to realize that characters like Lincoln have been given more attention than the “season’s biggest mystery, ‘Where Is Peter Bishop?’”, which drove me to the “polar bear cages connection”, that they are stalled, judging by the signficant drop in pace, and lack of answers, whilst developing a secondary character (Lincoln) further and further. As for the “you failed to either read my earlier comment… or didn’t bother to understand it” bit, I can see how it could appear I contradicted myself. But no, that wasn’t my intent — that was my way of saying I understand why Fringe needs to take it’s time with answers, but while it takes its time, it could have at least given us far better case-of-the-week episodes (again, as the third season did), dealing with the obvious, which is that both Fringe Divisions have to work together now. They touched on that with “One Night In October”, which is probably my favorite episode so far. But, there’s so much more story they could have dealt with regarding that huge issue, that if they did spend four episodes on that storyline, or something along its lines, I wouldn’t feel that the pace, and dramatic tension, had been lowered.
            Again, I loved your reply, and your great insight into this season.

            Like: Thumb up 0

      • scully8 says

        Mlj102 . . . totally agree with you on all counts. I was beginning to feel like the odd person out because I felt the episode worked. I also like ‘this’ Peter, who really isn’t different from our Peter, he’s just notched up the cockiness that he showed whenever he would connect Olivia with one of his ‘contacts’–mostly in season 1. I hope he maintains that attitude — large and in charge. :-)

        Thanks for the terrific comments mlj.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8

      • ObservetteMARCH says

        @mlj102 Well said. I totally agree and think that most of the “whiners” here are totally missing the point. You however, totally got it. Spot on. I was so pleased to see a comment from someone who gets this show and especially this episode (Peter’s return). Not only was Olivias’ dinner invite a friendly gesture to Lincoln, I think she also needed to try take her mind of the situation she finds herself in. As Lincoln said, Peter has gotten to her. I think that somewhere deep inside she feels that she knows Peter and that she has deep feelings for him or even feels that she loves him. So of course that’s freaking her out and she feels like a dinner and talk with a friend. And who better then her partner who’s working on the case with her and who also finds himself in a difficult situation. She sees him as a colleague that she can trust and open up to, I don’t see any “romantic” signals there at all. Maybe Lincoln had a bit of a “crush” on her at the start but his dinner refusal not only showed that he is in despair because his partners killer got away, I’m fairly certain that he has realized that Peter not only got to Olivia because she dreamt about him for weeks but because he can see that there’s a lot more to it emotionally from her side. Peter’s return confirmed to Lincoln that even if he wanted to “make a move” on Olivia, her heart belongs to someone else. That’s IF Lincoln had any romantic feelings towards her in the first place. Like you said, they are collages. Partners working together on emotionally exhausting cases. Of course there’s going to be some trust and affection between them. That does not mean that they’re flirting or trying to get together. To me Olivia and Lincoln seem to have more of a brother/sister or kindred spirits bond and I personally haven’t felt any “sexual” or “romantic” tension between them at all. They connected over a similar experience of loss of a partner and that created a mutual support “I got your back” kind of relationship. It is definitely nothing more then that in my opinion.

        You made some other great points. Especially regarding Nina and Olivias relationship in this timeline.
        Great great point about the follow up on the shapeshifter discs.

        You pretty much wrote everything I was thinking. :-)

        I also think that it’s awesome that Peter mentions the Observer intervening and him (Peter) being a “paradox”. I’m sure they’ll go a lot deeper into that in the episodes to come.

        Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 15

    • alexis says

      Sorry for the long post…

      @J.P. I share your feelings completely regarding the first 4 episodes, everything you said applies to them perfectly, IMO. However, I think this ep wasn’t that bad. We’ve had a very mediocre beginning of the season. The writers have missed a golden opportunity to start the season in a jaw-dropping way. There was so much mythology that could have been dealt with coming from last season’s finale, interaction between the two universes in regards to the machine, the Observers, etc. Yet, they decided to do 4 MOTW episodes that added absolutely nothing to the story and that were actually very weak (4×02 wasn’t THAT bad, but still not Fringe level, and the only thing that saved 4×04 was Peter’s return, IMO). I’m not even going to get started with Lincoln again (I already ranted enough on last episode’s thread), he just makes me sick. He’s ok Over There, but this version is just too lame. Enough, if I keep going I’ll never stop.

      4×05 is the best episode so far, I think. I agree with kidentropia that Peter’s return should have been more impactful. The ep could have focused a bit more on him instead of just have him as a very timely assistant to the COTW. And this ties to J.P.‘s frustration about not having learned anything regarding why Peter is here, they could, indeed, have at least touched that issue. And Peter seems not to be too bothered about the fact that the love of his life ignores him and feels uncomfortable around him. So yes, apart from Walter’s reaction (John Noble is definitely some kind of God), his return could have been addressed a bit more emotionally. However, I do like the idea that now it’s Peter against everyone else. I am excited to see how he manages to win them over and I’ll be happy to see him swerve from principles like in Reciprocity. I’ve always said that I found unfortunate that the writers didn’t choose to develop Peter as a shady character (as the kind of character that was introduced to us in the Pilot), so maybe this is a chance to have a more complex character.

      Olivia asking Lincoln to dinner: as I’ve said in another comment, that scene didn’t bother me because I felt like Olivia was just trying to be a friend to Lincoln. After all he’s still quite new to the team and he is still mourning his partner.

      Anna Torv: I don’t think Anna Torv did a bad job, I don’t feel like she reached the top level last season and now she’s just going down. I think 4X04 was a worse ep for her, actually. It’s just “Newlivia”… she’s somewhere in between Olivia and Altlivia. Not as lighthearted as Altlivia but more emotionally capable than Olivia. So that makes a weird mix. I personally liked Olivia better. Even in seasons 1 & 2 I never thought her acting was bad. I quite liked it, actually. I totally got the vibe of this socially super awkward lass who was hurting but didn’t let her pain come through. But for some reason, I don’t quite relate to this Newlivia at all. And I am a diehard Olivia fan, so it’s painful… :S

      So all things considered, I did enjoy this episode. After 4 episodes that weren’t worthy of Fringe at all, 4×05 was good. And I do like the possibilities that it leaves open to be unveiled in the next eps. Just one more thing: Get rid of Lincoln, let Nina, Broyles and Astrid have more presence and bring Charlie Francis back.

      Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 18

  5. Hannah says

    When Nina said that name doesn’t ring a bell, did anyone think of belly and his soul magnets. I got a little chuckle out of that! Good episode!!!

    I think olivia is going to have those headache/memory waves like she did in the early 4 eps of season 2 to remember Peter and right the worlds.

    It’s gonna be a good season! I’m loving the little subtle nods to past eps!

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9

    • Schwakamole says

      I think it just shows us that Nina still nevers shows all of her cards. This Olivia seems to worship the ground she walks on but she (Nina) still has some nasty things up here flashy black sleaves. At least I hope so. I don’t relish a motherly Nina. I’m hoping that Olivia is going to have a major falling out with Nina once she sees all that she’s been involved with.

      Like: Thumb up 6

      • grace says

        I agree. The decision to take care of Olivia was not unselfish. I guess Nina and MD have a plan for Olivia and her abilities.

        Like: Thumb up 3

  6. hal says

    i was going to spout some “omg that was cool” jazz but i guess I better think harder about it..

    nah, i dont like to think too much about this show anymore. i enjoy it more that way. trying to make sense of things never works.. not since the end of season 1. you should all know that by now?

    Like: Thumb up 4

    • matt says

      some times i cant help it, speculation is half the fun, but at this point i think im with you. imm just waiting patiently for more observer action, [spoiler removed - ed], and good ol fashioned walter

      i also agree withwhoeversaid they dumbed downpeter, they dumber down walter too, and they did hollywood up olivia, tis ashame, in season one all the characters had such epic potential

      Like: Thumb up 3

  7. anonymous says

    Can’t wait to see the rest of the season. The new shapeshifters make me fear for the people of Fringe Division. The ending with the typewriter is awesome.

    Like: Thumb up 6

  8. Cheyenne says

    Come on, don’t be mad with Olivia asking Lee out. In season 1, she asked Peter out for a bite to eat, and he said he wasn’t hungry, he was thirsty. I forgot the name of the episode. “IN WHICH WE MEET MR. JONES”??? Tonight, Olivia either wanted a friendly meal with Lee over the shapeshifters or she wanted a distraction over her conflicted feelings for Peter. After all, he is the man of her dreams! I loved the episode.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 26

    • jewlz2214 says

      I do see your point (especially about the dreams). I didn’t hate the episode, despite my many misgivings; just like all the previous episodes.

      And it was indeed ‘IWWMMJ’. But I guess, to put it simply, that Olivia was supposed to ask Peter out – “for drinks” as they still referred to it in ‘Jacksonville’. Why? Because she belonged with him. Because she needed him by her side. Even though in the later episode ‘Ability’ which also features our dear Jones; Olivia turned Peter down when he asked her out “for drinks”. Hmmm…getting scared of the above reasons?
      I wonder how that light box bomb worked out with Peter absent?
      Did she go out “for drinks” with Charlie? Anyway…

      Having Olivia, as you say, have “a friendly meal” or “for drinks” with Charlie back then I think would have been acceptable as well – simply because overall he wasn’t considered an attempt at being a rival, or an attempted replacement for Peter like Lincoln was and quite still is seen to be.

      Therefore there is alot of bristling from being rubbed the wrong way going on over just how much of a distraction from “the man of her dreams” Lincoln is going to be for a “conflicted” Olivia.

      Hope my perception of the issue made any sense.

      Like: Thumb up 4

  9. says

    I’ll keep it short:

    the Hermes 3000 implies a third verse. It does, because both blue and red verses now can easily travel to eachother with the machine and doors in place.
    This communication implies another verse.

    Which immediately raises the next question:
    íf there is a third verse, then maybe Walter is right about his instincts. Is the captured man really oúr (blue) Peter?

    Wonderful episode, i’ll rate it 7/10.

    Like: Thumb up 2

    • FringeFriday says

      I don’t think human shapeshifters use the bridge to get to the other universe or for communication. it is all watched by both sides. so the typewriter thing is pretty clever again.

      Like: Thumb up 2

      • FringeFriday says

        well they could use it now, impersonating staff from the bridge room- but I guess they have another job ;)

        Like: Thumb up 1

    • Schwakamole says

      I don’t think we have to jump to that based on the typewriter. The team on this side obviously knows about the other typewriter and mirror and the shapeshifter is merely using another one that they didn’t know about. It’s not like they let just anybody use the bridge on liberty island to go shopping or have coffee on the other side.

      What it does tell me is that Walternate is still up to his shinanigans. I had originally thought that maybe these were rogue shapeshifters who were tying to go off on their own apart from Walternate. But the typewriter communication method is very much Walternate’s MO so I’m thinking that he is just playacting at trying to solve this universe problem as a team. He’s still being sneaky and causing problems.

      Like: Thumb up 3

      • FringeFriday says

        Well said Schwakamole! I would love more inside into Walternate and his side of the typewriter. Is Fauxlivia in on this? is she the sneaky sidekick to Walternate? I am very curious how that will turn out.

        Like: Thumb up 1

  10. Mike says

    Lincoln got so close to catching the thing that killed his partner but he didn’t and he got upset. That’s why Olivia asked him if he wanted to go out to get something to eat. So that they could talk about it. But clearly he was not in the mood and just wanted to be alone. I didn’t get any vibes of a possible O/L romance at all.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 19

    • Pierce says

      That was the impression I came away as well. I saw Olivia making an effort to comfort and to help Lincoln to focus on something more positive. All of this must still be incredibly insane for him. Not to mention she may have been hoping to take her mind off of the fact that the man that has been possessing her dreams for weeks has shown up in the flesh claiming to know Walter, herself and the other people around her as well as extensive details about the job she performs. All of it is unsettling, and reaching for normal makes perfect sense.

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    • Alaina says

      I don’t really get that vibe either but I think it is because these two characters have NO chemistry…not the actors, because alt-Livia and alt-Lincoln do have chemistry, just these iterations of the characters have no chemistry between them. Is this purposeful on the part of the writers? God I hope so!!!

      Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 18

  11. number six says

    From now on, I’m going to call Lincoln, Eyebrow Man, because, man, does Seth Gabel do a lot of eyebrow acting! I want to like him, I really do, but I just can’t. I feel that Astrid, the FBI agent we’ve known for more than 3 seasons should be out there doing the job Eyebrow Man is doing now, but then Olivia wouldn’t have another love interest, would she?

    Fun fact, Joshua Jackson said in an interview published yesterday, that John Noble and Anna Torv got to decide, what would change in their characters. It’s very telling that Noble decided to be worse off, while Anna decided her character should be better off without Peter. That explains her comments earlier in the summer, when she said that about all the pain Peter had caused her character all those years and how she wanted Olivia to hook up with Eyebrow Man. And here are the results. No wonder the Peter/Olivia never felt believable. To tell you the truth, Olivia’s love life was always the least interesting thing to me. From John Scott to Lucas to Eyebrow Man, meh! That part of the show drags everything down. I don’t mean she shouldn’t have a boyfriend, let her have Eyebrow Man if she wants him so much, but could it happen offscreen, please? And she has fallen for another partner, this falls into creepy category now. What I’m going to beg the writers is: Please, don’t drag Peter into this mess! Peter and Olivia never worked, they were together for only 4 episodes, it had very little meaning. No more awful romance, please!

    Back to the episode. Olivia, honey, shapeshifters have this nasty habit of shapeshifting, remember that ok? I was yelling at the screen, when she didn’t immediately suspect the agent with the non-mortal wound. Her loose hair flows beautifully though. That should make up for her slowness, right?

    It hurts that Walter rejected Peter the way he did, because theirs was the real core relationship of the show. However, I like watching Peter off-kilter and using his smarts to get some advantage in this strange situation. It didn’t work in the end, but it was wonderful seeing him try. He’s always been so accommodating to Walter’s and Olivia’s needs, that it’s time for him to start making some demands and, why not?, show off a little. I love watching Josh and John working together, they are fantastic and their chemistry is off the charts. After being absent for so long, Peter should have been given more to do, but he’s back now. I want to see more of this badass Peter and less of “Olivia’s dog” Peter, please.

    Favorite scene: Peter mcgyvering his way into listening to Broyles & Co. and butting in their conversation :D

    Like: Thumb up 4

    • JM says

      Peter being back is also good because its just refreshing having someone else on screen apart from our anna torv overload of late. Yeah i cant help but notice in every interview she is negative about the character of Peter, and she did seem very happy when he was gone, and as ive mentioned again and again her desire for a lincoln/olivia relationship is….disturbing. But i dont want to get into that in to much detail before i invite the wrath of AnTo down upon me *squeals and runs away*

      Like: Thumb up 2

  12. FringeFriday says

    My oh my, our Linc seems to grow some balls. Standing up to Broyles in front of Peter, anyone else would have died of Broyles’ look haha.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 18

  13. Dylan says

    Strange…looking back on the episode as a whole, not a lot actually happened. Only scenes involving Walter actually had any progress, everything else was just filler (take the shapeshifter storyline for example, we kind of ended up exactly where we were at the beginning of the episode).

    I won’t say as much as I originally was going to, because a few others have listed all of the other issues I had with this episode.

    I’ll just list the things that annoyed me the most:

    1) Lincoln is Olivia’s equal, after a few weeks and minimal work…. how absolutely insulting to both Olivia and Astrid

    2) They know they’re after a shapeshifter. It’s of course logical to let the only guy on the scene who survived, with the only wound that was not to the head, leave without checking him over first…

    3) The MOST INFURIATING moment during this entire show: Peter states that Walter built the machine. NO! NO! NO! He didn’t built it! There’s nothing to even explain why Peter would think this! I cannot express how great a desire I had to track down the writers and smack them repeatedly over the head with a giant rock while watching that scene…

    ‘Novation’ was a disappointment, through-and-through. It was like ‘Stowaway’ where everyone practically ignored the biggest development (whether it be Bell/Olivia or Peter’s return), most of the episode was filler, and there was too much Lincoln…

    I am not liking this season. I am distanced from this show right now more than I have ever been. I don’t understand it, I don’t follow the logic of the writers, I don’t have any investment in it, and I feel that after three years of loyalty and recommendation of this show to others, I am being stabbed in the back.

    Watching a show that just wore a guise of intelligence, and that managed to deceive me for so long, angers me greatly. But more than that, it hurts.

    I feel betrayed…

    Like: Thumb up 6

    • number six says

      I can’t deal with what they’re doing with Astrid. I just can’t. I’m supposed to think she’s doing better off in this timeline, but seeing what they’ve done with her (and how little), I’d rather have S3 Astrid and her relationship with Walter.

      Like: Thumb up 5

      • FringeFriday says

        I have to agree on this. Now I appreciate how important Astrid really was in S3! Well, I liked the idea of our Linc getting intodruced to the show but did he really have to join new timeline’s Fringe Division? I rather see Astrid in the field than him! I really miss her. Especially the Walter-Astro-dynamic!

        Like: Thumb up 3

    • Hatch says

      I liked the episode – a good bit actually – but Peter casually stating that Walter built the machine did feel wrong to me.

      Like: Thumb up 3

    • JM says

      you say insulting to astrid and olivia, but i find his presidence insulting to jasika nicole, lance reddick and blair brown, obviously i dont know how they feel about it and jasika has said in a recent interview shes been told by the writers theres an astrid episode coming up, she was literally in for 2 mins of last episode, broyles was in it for 5 and so was nina (but her lines were awful), as a working professional i feel it would be a bit insulting to have another actor come in and immediately have more work than you, i just cant imagine them not finding that atleast a little bit annoying

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9

      • Schwakamole says

        Hey everyone, Astrid, Broyles, and Nina have always been on the sidelines. The show is about Olivia, Walter, and Peter. Lincoln was only predominant in the first episodes of this season to establish his character. He didn’t have much more air time than the other non-centrals this week so I don’t know why everyone is freaking out about him. He has taken the place as a non-central character much the way Astrid, Broyles, Nina and formerly Charlie were.

        And as far as the other characters, they have always had little air time. Here in there in the past 3 years we’ve had episodes where they’ve focused more on each of them, but their over all purpose is SUPPORTIVE! They will never be centric to the show so I do not see why everyone is wanting so much more of them. I love them, but only because we’ve gotten to know them for 3 years. No one is giving Lincoln a chance. It’s only been 5 episodes.

        Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 27

        • mlj102 says

          Thank you!

          Honestly, I don’t understand why everyone is so upset about how much Astrid/Broyles/Nina was in this episode (or this season) when really nothing has changed. As Schwakomole said so perfectly, they’ve always been the secondary characters. They’ve always had significantly less focus and screentime than Walter, Peter, and Olivia. On occasion, there will be an episode that focuses on them a bit more, but that’s the exception, not the rule.

          Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 21

        • Dylan says

          It be nice if one of them, after three seasons, actually got some development.

          The only development we had involving any of the characters was technically with Alt-Broyles, who was then killed. And then we jumped into this timeline, erasing even that.

          Three seasons, zilch character development. That’s not good.

          Like: Thumb up 3

      • PES says

        I think Blair Brown is a bit unhappy at least.
        If you look at John Noble’s recent quotes…it feels like she is politely speaking through him…
        But I could be wrong.

        Like: Thumb up 0

          • PES says

            I just noticed John Noble speaking very respectfully about Brown lately.
            “You’ve got an actress of the caliber of Blair Brown​ sitting there just waiting, she’s an amazing actress.”
            I think I’m wrong now and he just expressed his opinion, but who knows…
            I speculated. Sorry.

            Like: Thumb up 0

    • J.P. says

      Finally, someone else who realizes Walter never built the machine! He didn’t build it! It’s a “bootstrap paradox”. I won’t go into the scientific explanation for it, but in simple words, all Walter did was send the machine back in time so his younger self could find. That puts the machine in an interesting position — it was brought into existence without anyone actually building it!

      Like: Thumb up 3

          • grace says

            I loved last season finale and I was excited about this season. However I must admit it has not been up with my expectations so far.
            At the beginning I found annoying the way they explained the differences with Peter timeline (it was good for new viewers not for fans). Everything is logical and I can see interesting things to come, but these episodes do not compare to the show at its best. Now Nina and Peter are back, but I feel the same.
            Every season is a challenge for the cast, I think they are doing a good job and John Noble is always impressive.
            I always thought the show runners and the writers are mainly responsible for the asset of the show. The scripts and the mythology are crucial for me.
            Still I love Fringe and I’m looking forward to the next episode!

            Sorry but English is not my mother language.

            Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 12

  14. Mike says

    Some Peter fans are really bitter. You can be pro Peter without being a douche about Lincoln and Olivia.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 31

          • Night says

            Okay, here is what I meant:
            There are two types of fans:
            1- The good one= normal fans.
            2- The bad one= Obsessed freaks.
            It means that this has nothing to do with the fans of Olivia Walter or Peter.

            Like: Thumb up 2

      • Rick Terry says

        Their: Possessive; Who’s? Their’s.
        There: Stating a place or establishing a subject; Where? There.
        They’re: They are Contraction; Who are? They’re.

        Sorry. It just drive me insane!

        Like: Thumb up 7

          • Red Balloon says

            Hi Rick, I understand why it drives you insane, I feel the same when I’m reading any misspelled words in my own language. My tip for you is that if you make the following assumption, it will get easier for you not to feel sorry for any correction you want to address (I for one appreciate any corrections):

            “Everybody who writes in the internet is a non-English-spoken person”

            ;)

            Like: Thumb up 1

            • Rick Terry says

              Oh I usually do, but I have seen it so much lately that I feel the humanitarian thing to do is make people understand. While simultaneously laughing my @$$ of.

              Like: Thumb up 2

              • Night says

                Woah! What’s been going on here? lol
                I write a post and come back to find…. Hmmm… Rick Terry? Laughing his what? His ‘@$$ of.’? Holly mother of Cow!
                Okay…
                First off, I’m so, very, very sorry, please, oh, please forgive my awfully horrible spelling mistake.
                I actually hit the ‘submit’ button and Sh***t! I noticed I wrote ‘their’ instead of ‘there’, too late! But then I thought the meaning was too obvious to add another reply and correct the previous (well, as you know, there is no ‘edit’ option), seems I was very wrong, silly me. Silly, silly me.
                BTW, you honestly didn’t have to write a whole three lines language lesson about it, we don’t want those precious fingers harmed do we?
                But seriously, it must be really hard on you, ya know, hunting down bad-spelling-posters, perhaps on a daily basis, and having to suffer big time about it, well, about how it drives you crazy and stuff, all while looking for new ideas on how to insult them; tough work, I feel for ya! :( Oh, and don’t you tell me you can speak 10 languages and have to do this ‘noble job’ over and over in national and international websites?
                Here is my post, corrected and all clean: (I hope this, at least, helps you sleep tonight.)
                “There are basically two types of fans… whether those were Peter’s Olivia’s or Walter’s…”
                Guess there is no need to clarify what I meant, since it’s merely something about a fandom of a certain show, called Fringe actually; nothing to concern yourself with, really.
                Again, I apologize for my language, and hope any unnoticeable mistakes won’t cause you a heart attack or something this time.

                Like: Thumb up 4

            • Night says

              @Red Balloon

              Thanks for helping!
              Now, what possible solution do we have? Oh, right, perhaps the whole world should ‘perfectly use’ your mother tongue the way you ‘perfectly use’ it? I assume, when the tables are turned, that goes for you too?

              Okay, can we talk about Fringe now?

              Like: Thumb up 2

              • Red Balloon says

                You’re welcome, I really was trying to help without being rude. You assumed wrong though; when the tables are turned, I don’t correct others, even if it drives me insane. But I still appreciate any correction because I think it’s a good way to promote the practice of proofreading. But it’s cool, that you’re having fun. I am too :P

                Like: Thumb up 2

              • FringeFriday says

                I just feel like in a facebook forum right now…..
                but I have to say, I totally hate that I can’t “correct” (delete and rewrite) a blog here! maybe the “like” button was just step 1 ;)

                Like: Thumb up 3

        • Anya says

          If we’re going to nitpick:
          who’s = who is, as in “Who’s going to watch Fringe live on Friday?”
          “whose” = interrogative possessive pronoun: Whose idea was this? Theirs (no apostrophe, so there is no “their’s”

          :)

          Like: Thumb up 1

            • alexis says

              Boy, Rick Terry! I was actually going to back you up on this one because it drives me crazy when I see spelling mistakes in Spanish (from native Spanish speakers), but then… I try not to make them! :P

              Like: Thumb up 0

          • Page 48 says

            Ha! I’m always up for some quality nitpicking. I really want to have the “then” vs. “than” conversation with anyone willing to engage. It never gets old. It’s the gift that keeps on giving.

            Like: Thumb up 1

            • ObservetteMARCH says

              Yeah I just did a your instead of you’re earlier. GRRRRRR! I hate it when that happens. Delete/Edit Post feature please Fringe Bloggers!?

              Like: Thumb up 7

    • lizw65 says

      What do I think? This constant pitting of characters against one another is childish, counterproductive, and annoying, and the main reason that I have largely ceased to participate in many online forums.

      Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 49

      • Schwakamole says

        Lizw65, I tried to like your comment a million times but it only let me do it once! I completely agree with you!!

        Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 20

      • ObservetteMARCH says

        First I have to say @lizw65 you make a fantastic point! I’m starting to feel exactly the same and I’m seriously considering not participating in any online debates or even discussions regarding Fringe. However, it’s hard so hard for me to make that decision, because I want to do everything that I AS A REGULAR VIEWER AND HUGE FAN possibly can to support and promote the show. The Internet has proven to be a great tool for promoting and supporting ones favorite shows/music/movies so I’m hesitant to completely distance myself from the online stuff for that reason. I know that Fringe really needs all the fan support it can get right now and that’s the biggest reason I am here. I wish that all of us uniting this way has an impact and keeps the show going. I really want Fringe to get at least one more season.

        I just wish that season 4 received a better welcoming from some of the fans on Fringe Bloggers and that there were more positive comments about season 4, especially since we are only 6 episodes in. I am hoping that people will come around and be more trusting and patient with this season. I know that it’s been a quite difficult season for the fan so far because everything is so different and we are not at “home”. So everyone is anxious and some are starting to experience doubt and there are a million questions floating around, a lot of important ones that one so desperately wants answers to. I chose to see and experience this “anxious” state as a good place to be. I think that that’s where we are supposed to be, because the simple truth is that at the moment we are watching a very different Fringe, one that feels cold, broken and unfamiliar, but that is where we are supposed to (and I’m sure expected to) be. That despair is supposed to be there. Something horrible HAS happened at the end of last season and we are grieving. That is a good place to be right now, it’s a natural reaction. We have LOST so much and the repercussions have been HUGE. Yes I can absolutely say that…Man, does it hurt to see the effect it’s (peter being erased) had on our characters and our Fringe. 3-22 wasn’t called “The Day WE Died” for nothing. I however really believe that it is having the effect on fans that it is supposed to. Yes it’s hard because it’s all happening a little slower and quite different from what we expected but that is the genius of “the element of surprise” whether good or bad. Note that nobody so far is complaining about this season being too predictable and that’s why I applaud the show-runners. They’ve really managed to put us in a state of too many emotions to list but the main one being: anxiety. The reason that I don’t complain is because I know that this is where I’m supposed to be and the way I am supposed to feel…..FOR NOW. It’s made me more hungrier for Fringe then I’ve ever been before. Yes, I too am suffering but I welcome it because I trust this show and I believe that the payback will satisfy in ways I couldn’t have ever imagined or predicted. I trust the writers to do this show the justice it deserves and to deliver sweet satisfaction to it’s fans. Yes, maybe I am being a little naive or perhaps too trusting for some to comprehend. Still, I take the grief and indulge in the small treats and hopeful moments that we’ve gotten thus far this season and sit in this “bubble of uncertainty” patiently. I always have and will ’till the end, trust in Fringe. Also grief, pain, despair and all, it’s sweeter on my side. Any show, book or movie that can put me in such an intense state I welcome with open arms and I keep going back for more. What can I say…I’m a sucker for a head f*** and an emotional roller-coaster when it comes to my entertainment. Because as much as I want Peter, Walter and Olivia to go to that Perfect Day from Peter’s dream and to stay there forever….to me the anticipation can sometimes be almost as sweet as the reward. And boy oh boy am I full of Fringecipation right now! (I am too tired to check for spelling/grammar mistakes so I apologize if there are any) Love to all

        Like: Thumb up 1

  15. Page 48 says

    Given the circumstances and events that these people have been subjected to in the last few years, why would they find Peter’s story so bizarre? It’s no more bizarre than parallel universes or shape-shifters or BBM’s. Why the hostility toward him? I would think they would want to sit down with him and listen intently to every detail.

    Clearly, they have much to learn from PB and the surliness displayed by Broyles and Olivia was not only not warranted but also was not professionally astute. Had the much maligned Lincoln not intervened in a manly way, they would never have had a whiff of Malcolm Truss or his shape-shifting, kop-killing kidnapper. If anyone should have an open mind about unlikely scenarios, it should be Fringe Division.

    Now, Agent Dunham, about that bite to eat. What time shall I pick you up? And should I wear my Lincoln Lee glasses?

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 21

    • Red Balloon says

      “Why the hostility toward him? I would think they would want to sit down with him and listen intently to every detail.”

      Yeah, that was frustrating, but if I remember correctly, Olivia said to Walter that Peter would only speak to him:

      WALTER: Is he talking?

      OLIVIA: No. He was, but he stopped cooperating with us at the hospital. Broyles moved him to a holding facility in the Federal Building. Walter, he says that you’re the only one he’ll speak to.

      Like: Thumb up 5

  16. hsa says

    I do not know about the rest of you, but I watch Fringe because it entertains me, is thought-provoking, has superb acting and is never boring. I enjoyed Novation very much. I do not try to second quess the writers or the characters. Seth Gable seems to be happily married to Bryce Howard (Ron’s duaghter), and I am not going to get into the actors’ personal lives. I almsot cried voer the scene with Walter recalling Peter with his box of mementos. The coin rolling was wonderful: first, with difficulty, and then with a smile emerging on his face, remembering how to roll the coin. The notion that Walter does not deserve a Peter from another universe is so interesting. I believe that the new time line is another universe as well. There may be as many universes as there are stars!!!

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 22

    • Red Balloon says

      @hsa, I’m right there with you, I enjoy the show as much as I did in the first season. I love to make my own theories, and change them as the show goes further.

      I don’t get the whole nonsense about Anna, Josh, Gable and Noble. It doesn’t help the show, and the buzz they create, apart of being annoying, goes to such a personal level that it’s on the label of twelve year old’s. Enough of that!

      I thought this one episode was good, not great, but still enjoyed it. Some scenes like the one you mentioned was worth the wait, and I’m sure that there’s a lot more plot in their hands with this time-line to resolve the original one. I think all of the time-lines are connected to the Big Baddy (yet to be reveled), and that’s just enough for me to be 100% invested.

      They have a tremendous cast altogether, and as long as the writing doesn’t fall, they should be fine. The special effects on the shape-shifters were great on this episode, that helped, but I thought the writing was a bit off for some characters. I will address some more on that later.

      Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 14

      • Mike says

        @Red Balloon
        I don’t get the whole nonsense about Anna, Josh, Gable and Noble. It doesn’t help the show, and the buzz they create, apart of being annoying, goes to such a personal level that it’s on the label of twelve year old’s. Enough of that!

        I feel exactly the same way.

        Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 13

  17. M. F. says

    This season is better than I could imagine so far! Now Walter, I felt sorry for him. Of all he’s suffered the most with the return of Pete. I can not wait for next week. Fringe is getting more interesting and increasingly captivates my attention !!!!!!

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 12

  18. Schwakamole says

    I feel like this post has been dominated by those that hate the season so far, which is entirely their opinion and I respect it. But I thought I’d give another perspective. And I don’t feel like you have to LOVE one character or another to have a balanced POV.

    First off, I really enjoyed Peter’s look to Broyles at the beginning. He’s being treated as a dangerous person and he’s looking at Broyles as if to say, “Really?! We need to go to this length with me, bars and all?” Subtle but good. Showing evidence that Peter still hasn’t grasped fully that no one remembers him. He knows them but they don’t know him. I can see how this would be a strange but interesting perspective.

    Olivia seems fairly shaken by Peter being there. It makes me wonder what exactly he was doing while he was in her dreams. Was she dreaming of him in an intimate boyfriend kind of way? Or was he just there? I can see why she’d be a bit non-plussed about him. I do not agree with others about how Anna Torv has been “hollywooded up”. I feel that this Olivia grew up in a much different home than the Olivia we knew the past 3 seasons, a relatively normal upbringing compared to what she had before. Thus she seems more girly, taking time to actually work on her hair and maybe wear some makeup. She’s not as broken as the previous Olivia. And might I remind everyone that it took many a while during season 1 to warm up to Olivia. This is a new iteration of her and while some may not like her, give it time. You may yet warm up to her. It’s only been 5 episodes with this new Olivia. She is not the same Olivia. I repeat, she is not the same Olivia! I hate that people are trying to make this one into something she obviously isn’t. Now that Peter is back it will be interesting to see if she moves closer to the Olivia that we know and love.

    Walter was fabulous in this episode. He is a much more neurotic and paranoid Walter than what we are used to. His grappling with guilt, wanting to believe that Peter is his son, but knowing it’s not possible. He was great. I absolutely loved his nervous, hesitant looks towards Peter when they first met. He kept his eyes down and furtively looked up to Peter, almost afraid of what he would see. John Noble is awesome! And the touching scene at the end was classic. Loved it. Those two are just good together.

    Peter. It felt so good to have him back and have him be a tether to the world we knew. Everything is the same but different. I like seeing him come to terms with it all. I thought that he was a little too gleeful when he was telling Broyles about the new shapeshifters and how they would be indistinguishable. He had a little smile on his face when he was talking about it. As though the cool factor was outweighing the terrifying reality of what this actually meant. That was my only point that I didn’t like about him. Other than that, I liked seeing his relief at seeing Walter, then his frustration. I think blackmail was necessary. He desparately wants to know how to fix things and he used what he had…leverage. His demeanor seems appropriate to me. Here is a man who has come a long way since season 1, has seen very bizarre things, traveled to another universe and back, traveled to the future and seen the devastation that a decision can make, and recently been lost in the ether for weeks on end. I think when you’ve gone through all of that you can either be a total wreak or you can be cool as a cucumber without anything shaking you. I like that they’ve given Peter the latter. It’s as though he’s above the worrying about the here and now and is on to solving more important things. I look forward to how they build his relationships with the new folks of this timeline.

    To address Dylan’s comment about the machine…the writers OBVIOUSLY want us to believe that Walter created the machine. It is a fictional story. I find it humerous that you are trying to tell them how to write their own story. I, personally, will just go with it that Walter built it and move on with enjoying the story that is being told. I know you’ll have a heyday with that comment, Dylan, but that’s where I’m at.

    To address Olivia’s asking Lincoln out for a bite to eat…I totally did not see this as a come on from her. She has already stated that he is not her type. She has always been a very empathetic person to those in need and it seems this version of her is the same way. She’s been very kind and helpful to Walter and from the beginning she’s been the same way with Lincoln. I cannot understand why people are always trying to hook Olivia up with someone. Can’t a professional person enjoy being partners and friends with someone and try to help them during an obviously emotionally hard time?? She had a loving but platonic relationship with her partner Charlie and no one was trying to put them together. Sheesh!

    Fringe is still a great show and is still giving us interesting stories. You cannot keep up the intensity of the beginning of season 3 forever. A story needs to shift and evolve and it has. I think we have two very intriguing story lines that needs to be fleshed out, the new shapeshifters and their agenda (and boss) and Peters quest to get back to his old timeline. I believe they have a lot of room for even more good storytelling and I’m excited to see it. I am happy that those who are currently down on the show are still willing to watch and see what happens. But please don’t dismiss it just because you are currently unhappy with how the show has gone. It’s like you see one small negative and then all you can do is continue to focus on the negative without being willing to see anything positive at all. It’s as though you warp your view to only see the bad. I hope you can be open to see all the good of this show as well.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 55

    • Pierce says

      Olivia seems fairly shaken by Peter being there. It makes me wonder what exactly he was doing while he was in her dreams. Was she dreaming of him in an intimate boyfriend kind of way? Or was he just there? I can see why she’d be a bit non-plussed about him.

      Shaken and non-plussed…that sums up what I was trying to say in my previous post.

      And those are some great questions to consider, aren’t they? How did Peter come to her dreams? I can only imagine if she had an intimate knowledge of Peter from her dreams to find herself faced with not only how, but now why he’s suddenly a reality in her life has to be disconcerting. It will be interesting to see if the writers will explore how Peter impacted Olivia’s dreams. Will that have a bearing on how their relationship progresses or regress in any way? The potential is great either way, and I think since the Peter that’s returned is clearly more matured and confident, he’s also being forced to adapt to the mindset he held in S1 with using his intellect and willingness to manipulate the people around him to an extent to get what he needs to answer the question of his own paradox…it should be a fun ride to see how Olivia reactions to him.

      Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 25

    • J.P. says

      Very well said. I know I’m one of the more critical few, but it’s because I love the show so much, and I know it’s much better than this.

      Like: Thumb up 5

      • Schwakamole says

        J.P., what I like about you is you are always very respectful even when you are really down on the story. And I think it’s a testament to you (and JM and Dylan) that you will all keep watching and giving the show a chance.

        I felt a need to post, however, because many times people are easily swayed by a well thought out, intelligent response whether it is a negative one or a positive one. So I wanted to put a positive one on there for those that are easily swayed so that we wouldn’t have a community full of haters of this new season.

        But I always enjoy reading your comments (and JM’s and Dylan’s) because they always make me think about things that I may not have thought of before.

        Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 20

        • JM says

          Wow really appreciate those comments, i think its a testament to the show that even though i get frustrated with it sometimes (more often than not lately) they have made me a viewer for life, and i will continue to watch even if it gets shit, cause lets face it i started with it i may aswell finish it :p

          Like: Thumb up 3

        • J.P. says

          Thanks so much! I try my best to be respectful of the show and the bloggers on this site, but I’m worried I could just be perceived as a pissed off fan who frequently writes novel-length comments. I agree completely about what you’ve said about those who just choose sides because they themselves don’t have a side. Thanks for the great reply, and what I like about you is that you are also very respectful, and won’t stop watching this show any time soon! :)

          Like: Thumb up 1

    • kidentropia says

      First of all, great post. Even though i disagree with some of what you wrote, i loved how you expressed your points. And, yes, definitely, hot debate, which is one of the signs that, no matter what, Fringe is still a great show. And i´m more in the camp of JP and others, here;they have a more coherently developed statement on what they feel the show is doing wrong. My concern is a more vague one; it´s a concern in the tone and the pace, rather than specifics, even though details definitely add up to that tone. Very vague, again, very vague xD.
      Now, there´s something i agree with you with: as opposed to many posters here, i didn´t find Olivia´s asking Lincoln out particularly jarring or annoying or whatever. And i agree with you that she´s very empathetic and will try and do whatever she can to make people feel better; and i saw her asking out of Lincoln as a coded “hey, this shapeshifter business is horrible for you because of what happened to your buddy, i understand; why don´t we go out and talk this through or something?” rather than “hey Linc: i totally gots the hots for you. why don´t we go eat and then watch movies in my place if you know what i mean?” But then again i can see why people are worried about this, and i will agree with anyone who complains that sometimes Fringe tries too hard to integrate love affairs into the plot, in an attempt to make the characters more relatable, without the writers realizing that these characters ARE already relatable, just not in the traditional ways: the strength of the Fringe characters lies mainly in the way these people are still struggling and are still fighting for what they believe is right, despite the horrible things that have happened to them in the past, despite the impossibility or at least the extreme improbability of the events that surround them, despite the deep uncertainty that fills their world. In a way, forcing them into normal relationships diminishes their particular humanity.

      Last i will respectfully disagree with something you wrote, Schwakamole (love your nick btw). I don´t feel we´re trying to tell the writers how to tell their story (even though sometimes [hell, i´ll admit it: most of the time!]) it seems thus. i believe the problem is, with a show like Fringe, which is essentially a cult show with such an extremely complex and rich mythology and with such powerful characters, that when you reach a certain level of complexity and intricacy and brilliance in the story, certain plot and storytelling decisions on the part of the writers feel like an unnecessary detour from the main goal (assuming there´s one-and , for jacob´s sake, there seems to be one), and sometimes such decisions feel almost like a little self-sabotaging move on their part, and we as furiously fervent Fringe fans can´t help but feel the need to intervene. So… what i´m basically trying to say is that we are extreme nerds who love the show and what it to be perfect every time! what´s wrong with that? xD
      seriously, though; no matter what, i´ll watch it to the end. it´s still basically the best story around.

      Like: Thumb up 3

    • mlj102 says

      Very well said, again. Thanks for putting together such a fabulous comment.

      “She has always been a very empathetic person to those in need and it seems this version of her is the same way. She’s been very kind and helpful to Walter and from the beginning she’s been the same way with Lincoln.”

      Exactly. I talked about this in another comment, but the way you said it here made me think of some additional points. I mean, she invited Walter out for Root Beer floats in the previous episode, and she even held his hand. Of course we all know there’s nothing romantic in those gestures, but if it had been Lincoln, everyone would be in an outrage over such romantic intents from Olivia. You can be kind and reassuring and comforting without it being romantic. Sometimes an invitation to dinner is just an invitation to dinner. I don’t think there has been any reason to justify jumping to the conclusion that Olivia and Lincoln are on track to become a couple.

      Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 26

      • Red Balloon says

        @Schwakamole, @mlj102 @Pierce @hsa, etc… I feel relieved by all your comments, and I agree with most of them. Thanks for bringing the good part of Fringe to the surface. Even if I agree with some criticism on the writing part, we’ve been critical on other periods of past seasons and at the same time, have been able to come back with positive attitude.

        I will always be on board with Fringe, even if some bad scenes or bad writing or budget cut or bad acting happens, just like Baseball happened lol, it will pass and be forgotten.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8

    • Dylan says

      I would just like some consistency in the writing. It shouldn’t be too hard a thing to ask from a group that wrote such episodes as ‘White Tulip’, ‘Peter’ and ‘Olivia’.

      “the writers OBVIOUSLY want us to believe that Walter created the machine…you are trying to tell them how to write their own story. I, personally…just go with it that Walter built it and move on with enjoying the story that is being told”

      I can’t, though. If I’m expected to follow this story, then I expect the writers to as well. And I have doubts about whether or not they are now the right people for the job.

      Like: Thumb up 3

      • J.P. says

        “I can’t, though. If I’m expected to follow this story, then I expect the writers to as well. And I have doubts about whether or not they are now the right people for the job.”
        Spoken like a TRUE FAN, Dylan!

        Like: Thumb up 1

  19. James says

    Didn’t enjoy this episode very much.

    I mean, it was good, and better than anything else on TV.

    But, for Fringe standards, it was quite boring. Peter should have been the main focus and instead we had that shapeshifter with her average acting.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 10

  20. Schwakamole says

    Seeing the preview for next week explains the little rewind we saw at the end when “Jill” gave the “hourlies” to Olivia. When she first handed them to Olivia I thought, why are they focusing in on those papers, and then the shift happened. At first I thought maybe Olivia did a quick travel to the OU. But then I saw the preview for the next episode and realised what it was.

    I also thought it was interesting that the team in this timeline knows nothing of the observers. Olivia was the one who first noticed them in Season 1 and by then Broyles had a fat folder on them. It was explained then that the Observers seemed to show up at important events in history. So why, in this timeline, are they not noticed? Have they just been absent more because they aren’t observing everything as it pertains to Peter? Did less important stuff happen in this timeline? Or is it just that this team is less observant (pardon the pun)? I’m sure we’ll find out soon.

    Like: Thumb up 6

    • mlj102 says

      I really liked that moment at the end where the agent delivered the hourlies to Olivia. The first time she did that, I thought there must be something significant about the reports themselves, since they gave it such a focus, then when they were delivered again, I was absolutely delighted. I love those moments in Fringe that catch you off guard and that play on the minor details. Like you, at first I thought she’d briefly crossed to the other side, but after the preview, it’s clearly part of something much bigger. I’m really excited to see where they take this in the next episode!

      The fact that the Observers are unknown to the Fringe team is interesting. But I suppose it makes sense. If this timeline represents the way things were supposed to be, then it seems the Observers would be less involved, less of a factor. They’re observing, but they’re just not noticed.

      Like: Thumb up 4

      • Dylan says

        “If this timeline represents the way things were supposed to be, then it seems the Observers would be less involved, less of a factor. They’re observing, but they’re just not noticed”

        But it’s not, don’t forget. September distracted Walternate from seeing the cure in ‘Peter’; what was originally supposed to happen – hence why September went through the effort to ensure Peter lived (as opposed to just letting him die again).

        Strange… if September is capable of changing his actions regarding Peter drowning or not drowning, you think he would just go back and stop himself from being caught by Walternate.

        I must admit, I did enjoy the “what’s an Observer?” comment by Astrid.

        Like: Thumb up 1

        • Hatch says

          “Strange… if September is capable of changing his actions regarding Peter drowning or not drowning, you think he would just go back and stop himself from being caught by Walternate.”

          Exactly. It seems as if the Observers are correcting what they perceive to be September’s “mistake.” I always assumed that mistake was distracting Walternate, so he couldn’t save Peter – then the Observer saved him at Reiden Lake, putting things back the way they were supposed to be (sort of).

          Now, it seems they want us to believe that the “mistake” was September’s saving of Peter at the lake, NOT his distracting of Walternate. Why was this a mistake, when Peter was supposed to live (i.e., be cured by Walternate)? And why – as you pointed out, Dylan – can’t the Observers go back and have September *not* distract Walternate, thereby preempting all of this?

          My brain hurts. In a good way.

          Like: Thumb up 2

        • mlj102 says

          Oh, we’ve had this discussion before and I’m so not going there again. Instead I’ll just say that, despite your objections, I still think that’s one of those things that was not a conscious choice, therefore it couldn’t be changed.

          As for what was supposed to happen, can we really say? Who knows what would have happened if Walternate had seen the cure. Perhaps Walter still would have crossed over? Perhaps something else would have happened later on to cause Peter to die. We can’t really say. All we really know is that in that timeline, Peter was supposed to live so that he could power the machine. September’s unintentional interference would have prevented that.

          Like: Thumb up 2

    • kidentropia says

      good point, schwakamole. my theory is: if, as seems to be the case, the events in the original timeline were a result of September´s intromission in the fate of Peter, perhaps this time around they´re trying to keep as far as possible from the epicenter of things, so as to diminish the possibility of their interfering in the unfolding of the story. but, i sure hope as hell there´s eventually more observers in the season; i don´t think many people will disagree that the one element of the fringe mythology that needs explianing are the observers

      Like: Thumb up 1

  21. Anita says

    I do not hate this season as much as many have expressed here, but I do have some qualms with it. I feel like for a show that may not last longer than this season the progression of events has been really quite slow. Season three hit the ground running and I loved all of the episodes up to and including Entrada. In my opinion that was the best run Fringe has ever been on in terms of episodes. Yes, even back then I though Peter’s inability to tell Altlivia from Olivia was contrived, but everything else was incredible.

    Now I feel like we still have so many questions that remain unanswered from seasons 1, 2, and 3 and they are just adding on more layers of confusion with the organic shapeshifters. Reminds me of the final few seasons of The X-Files where they added on new mysteries simply for the sake of it.

    That being said I don’t think this season has been quite the disaster some are making it out to be. A show exploring what its characters would be like if one of the protagonists didn’t exist? That’s pretty damn cool. Very few shows could do that and very few shows would! I do wish they hadn’t glossed over Peter’s disappearance/existence and I hope they delve into the reasons behind that very soon.

    Ultimately, though, there is something missing. I know it’s not just him but part of me feels like the lack of Charlie Francis on this show has made it lose something essential. I know that makes no sense because he’s been absent before, but it might be the fact that they want Lincoln to be the new Charlie (and that’s how I see it, I don’t see it as them wanting him to be the new Peter) and it just falls flat for me. The Olivia-Charlie dynamic was so natural, the Olivia-Lincoln dynamic seems awkward 85% of the time.

    What I’m saying is that this season so far isn’t as great as the beginning of season 3, but then again a lot of the latter episodes of season 3 were around the same calibre. I think the show has the means to gain some ground, especially now that Peter has returned, but I hope the writers don’t take their sweet time in getting to the essential stories. We may not have that kind of time to spare.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 21

    • mlj102 says

      Great comment!

      “Season three hit the ground running and I loved all of the episodes up to and including Entrada. In my opinion that was the best run Fringe has ever been on in terms of episodes.”

      For me, personally, the best run of episodes was the last half of Season 2, from Jacksonville through to the end of the season (Northwest Passage, of course, being the obvious exception — I still prefer to pretend that episode never existed). But yes, the opening episodes of Season 3 were also fantastic, though I definitely preferred the Over There episodes in the first half of the season. I think Season 4 is just getting off to a slower start because there is so much to establish. They’re setting the stage (similar to the beginning of Season 1 and Season 2). I expect it to take off now that the main introduction has been established, and I felt like this episode was the beginning of that.

      “Now I feel like we still have so many questions that remain unanswered from seasons 1, 2, and 3 and they are just adding on more layers of confusion with the organic shapeshifters.”

      There are certainly unanswered questions. Show me a Seriable show that doesn’t have unanswered questions. But I don’t mind it with Fringe because everything feels so connected. In my mind, they essentially wrapped up the first Shapeshifter storyline last season. Now they’re introducing the new shapeshifters. Similar, but slightly different. I imagine we’ll learn more about these new shapeshifters, and in the process there will likely be more insight into the previous shapeshifters as well. Fringe gives out answers gradually and so far I’m not feeling overwhelmed by the unanswered questions we have.

      “The Olivia-Charlie dynamic was so natural, the Olivia-Lincoln dynamic seems awkward 85% of the time.”

      Perhaps that’s because when we were introduced to Fringe in Season 1, Olivia and Charlie already had a long established friendship, but with Lincoln and Olivia, they’ve just met, so obviously that type of relationship is still developing.

      Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 15

      • FringeFriday says

        I wished they would have revived Charlie in the new timeline instead of introducing Lincoln to the team.

        Like: Thumb up 6

    • Dylan says

      I agree with a lot of what you said. I just can’t believe that the writers are playing around like this, while facing the very likelihood that this could be the show’s final season…

      Like: Thumb up 3

      • mlj102 says

        Technically, unless you’re a show with fantastic ratings, any season could be your last season. For Fringe, ever since they were moved to Thursday nights, there was speculation that the current season could be their last. I would have hated it if the writers/producers decided to speed things up and work towards a resolution and cram everything in back in Season 2 just on the chance that it might be the last season. Where would we be now if that’s what they’d done? Would Fringe even still be here if they’d played out the whole story already? And if it was, would it be as good? I don’t think so. I much prefer them allowing the story to play out at a normal pace and continuing the story naturally, assuming they’ll have whatever time they need to tell the whole thing. And, for the record, I don’t feel like they’ve been wasting their time this season. I think they’ve spent the time that’s necessary to set the stage for what’s coming. I wouldn’t want them to rush that and lose the impact.

        Like: Thumb up 6

        • Dylan says

          I would like them to able to end on their own terms, without being forced into it. Still, with that being said, the show is in dire straits –

          It’s time to bring about resolution, not to start again.

          (On a side note, I think we can all agree that Fringe really shows its colours when it strikes at the heart of its mythology. There are unfortunately few ‘White Tulip’s throughout the series’ run, and those two best periods of the show – second half of season 2 and first half of season 3, I’m sure its no coincidence that they also made significant progress on that key storyline)

          Like: Thumb up 3

  22. mlj102 says

    Well, I’ve finally read through all the comments and I have to say that I was not expecting the overall negative tone towards this episode. While I was watching this episode, I was absolutely thrilled the entire time. I kept thinking how this is a perfect example of why I love Fringe.

    There was mythology from the development of the shapeshifters. I’m surprised so many have just dismissed that as inconsequential. When these shapeshifters were introduced in the premiere, they were faulty. By the end of that episode, they’d managed to at least survive, but it was clear that she still had issues. This episode established them as potentially more dangerous and fool-proof than the original shapeshifters and the events in this episode gave them what they needed to accomplish that. I thought they did a great job of establishing the threat these shapeshifters will be throughout the remainder of the season/series. There is a lot of potential surrounding them and I don’t know about anyone else, but that typewriter exchange at the end was pretty foreboding.

    Then there was the return of Peter. I don’t know what everyone was expecting, but I thought it all unfolded in a very natural, reasonable way. There was interaction between Walter and Peter, which was done spectacularly and helped develop the characters, particularly Walter. Peter was able to get involved in the case, which helped him start to establish himself back with these characters who are understandably suspicious of him. Plus it allowed him to share some of his shapeshifter knowledge, which is something that fans have been complaining has been missing and forgotten ever since Reciprocity last season. I thought people would be thrilled that they returned to that plot.

    And as with all great Fringe episodes, this one had a theme and a message. Truss learned his lesson, much like Walter did, that there is a line you shouldn’t cross, that some things shouldn’t be tampered with. I thought they conveyed that brilliantly, showing how Nadine initially convinced him in to working with her, and how wonderful he thought his work was, until he realized the truth of what he was doing. But by that time it was too late. He’d made it possible for these super shapeshifters to exist and he lost the wife he still loved. The cost for what he was doing was much more than he’d realized. By the end, he was a very broken man. And all of this connected back to Walter and how he felt about what he’d done and how he’d learned that same lesson. As a bit of a side note, I found it interesting that William Bell had been the one to tell Truss that some things weren’t meant to be tampered with, considering it was Carla Warren who told that to Walter. Walter claimed that Bell was always telling him to cross the line, to “tamper” with things and go to the other side. It seems like they’re suggesting that Bell was a different person in this timeline as well.

    In general, I thought this episode was great. I found the story/case of this episode was intriguing and not at all slow or boring. I thought the acting was the usual excellence I’ve come to expect from Fringe, and I had no problems with the writing or dialogue or character interactions. It all flowed very smoothly and reasonably as far as I was concerned. While I respect that others will have different opinions and reactions, I’m surprised and a bit sad that others have had such strong, negative reactions to an episode that I thought was fantastic. I’m not sure why there is such an extreme difference in how this episode was perceived because I didn’t consider it to be polarizing in that way.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 31

    • Isa says

      I agree with you completely. Great post!

      Let me just add that I don’t think Olivia was asking Lincoln on a date. I can’t see anything romantic about these two. She was trying to connect with a friend, especially because Lincoln was obviously disturbed by the shapeshifters, but also because I think Olivia is somehow disturbed by Peter and she needed a friend. I’m guessing Olivia knows Peter is important to her, but she doesn’t know exactly how. Olivia is to one, I think, who is going to “see” the other timeline. She is the link, it is her ability after all.

      Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 14

    • Anita says

      Having re-watched the episode I had a much more positive take on it. I think my two biggest gripes are that Lincoln has essentially replaced Charlie, but that’s beyond anyone’s control because of Prime Suspect, and that the progression of the plot needs to be maybe one episode ahead due to the potential of no fifth season.

      Other than that I am satisfied. :)

      Like: Thumb up 2

    • Alaina says

      Mlj102 I always love your posts and I usually feel the same way that you do. While I did like this ep a lot and it was a definite improvement over the first 4 eps, it didnt thrill me as I expected it to do. Not sure why, maybe after my rewatch I will have a more coherent reason, or maybe it will thrill me, idk. Maybe my expectations for this ep were just really high since it was the first ep with Peter and there was the frustration of the unexpected hiatus. I wish there had been more P/O interaction though, cant wait for that next week!!

      Like: Thumb up 3

    • Pierce says

      You and I often come away from each episode with the same perspective, so, forgive me if I don’t provide any additional comment other than I completely agree with no only your breakdown of the episode, but also the confusion behind the negative reaction some have expressed about the episode and the season as a whole. I think it has been a brilliant move on the writers part to reintroduce these characters to the audience while simultaneously setting the new threat they will be facing and how Peter who has become a walking talking Fringe event in himself that is an impact emotionally as well. I couldn’t be more excited to see how the rest of the season whether it’s the last or not unfolds. I wish others would tap into their reserve of patience and allow themselves to enjoy the story at the pace the writers feel necessary to explore it. But to each his/her own.

      Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 16

  23. Anita says

    I just re-watched the episode on my DVR. Fringe works so well with the emotional moments, clearly because John Noble is a king among men. I think having a core group of characters makes the relationships even more heart-breaking/warming than other shows like Lost where you care about the characters but it is in fact plot twists that you remember at the end of the episode, not the gut-wrenching emotional scene.

    Not sure if this is better or worse, it just is. Just an observation on one of Fringe’s strengths.

    Like: Thumb up 5

  24. Isa says

    Just wanted to say that I really like the new “like” button and also the “well-loved” posts in yellow. It helps organizing the discussion and it makes easier to read and to know what others are thinking. Well done.

    Like: Thumb up 5

  25. Michelle says

    Wow, I love Lincoln. He’s hands-down my favorite character, and everyone I know likes him too. He’s not replacing Peter, so stop freaking out and asking for his death. (I know the producers listen to fan discussions, please don’t kill him)

    Seriously, it’s not the Peter Bishop show. Stop being selfish and let people like who they want to like.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 15

    • ObservetteMARCH says

      I agree Michelle. I have no problem Lincoln and actually find him quite likable and endearing. He is certainly no threat to ANY of the characters in my opinion, most of all Peter.

      Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 12

    • Red Balloon says

      I share your view, It’s obvious to me that this season has suffered a budget cut (Gene, Brandon, locations), and they had to do re-arrangement’s around the story because of the finale twist (Lincoln “Kennedy” Lee). The addition to this character was a smart choice, for he serves as a wild card for all of the main and supportive characters.

      They used him to be the fan view in the first episode, to enable Dunham to be more open towards her filings in a work situation in episode 3, and to enable Peter to work with them in the case in episode 5.

      As for Farnsworth, maybe her roll didn’t change much because she makes it work better around Walter than in the field. At least for me she does. Although I do admit to be lacking of their “typical” moments in the lab (maybe lack of time from edition part). But she’s not the only one missing “typical” situations, all of the characters were missing that, and for me that was the point for the first episode mini arc, to enhance the lack of Peter in their lives through this somehow annoying things. Nothing was the same for anyone, so I’m perfectly ok with what the production decided to do.

      We’ll see how this all had a reason to be in the next mini-arc, as I can see clearly that Peter’s return, will enable them to return to the “typical”. I even see some mirroring to the first season, when Olivia first met Walter and Peter. Olivia was the one who was in a desperate situation with the loss of her partner-lover, and asked Peter for help. This time is the other way around, Peter is the one who desperately needs help, so I’m glad he will be vulnerable enough for Olivia to sympathize with him.

      IT’S ALL GOOD, CHANGE IS GOOD!

      Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 13

    • Pierce says

      I think what I’m coming to appreciate about the introduction to Lincoln to this Fringe team is he is an odd piece of the puzzle. He shares none of the history, yet he’s connected, emotionally and professionally through the loss of his partner, and his determination to end this threat. His prescence allows him to be far more objective than either Walter, Olivia and to an extent Broyles or Peter who comes with a full set of memories of people who don’t remember or know him. I loved how he took control when Peter told them he had a in-depth knowledge of shapeshifters and suggested that he work on the tech they had recovered unless someone had a better idea. He’s not being led around by the nose as the clueless, inexperienced newbie…he’s a functioning piece of the team with different approaches and ideas on how to go about his job with our without Peter around.

      That and the fact that he adds to the hot guy level on the team. There’s no reason Peter needs to carry that burden all alone. ;-)

      Like: Thumb up 4

  26. ObservetteMARCH says

    One thing I found very interesting:
    Malcolm Truss also worked with William Bell and he quoted William Bell saying: “Some things are not ours to tamper with. Some things are Gods.” whereas it was Carla Warren that said this in our original timeline. Here’s part of the transcript from the scene in Walters office in season two episode “Peter”.

    WALTER: I always considered you as a scientist, Doctor Warren… despite your personal needs for religious claptrap. I see I was wrong.
    CARLA WARREN: “I am become death, Destroyer of Worlds.”
    WALTER: Don’t you quote Oppenheimer to me.
    CARLA WARREN: Knowledge cannot be pursued without morality.
    WALTER: You sound like a pious sanctimonious Southern Preacher!
    CARLA WARREN: I may go to church every Sunday, Walter, but I also have three degrees in theoretical physics, and I am telling you you cannot do this. We both know the amount of energy required to create a portal will forever ruin both universes. For the sake of one life, you will destroy the world. Some things are not ours to tamper with. Some things are God’s.

    So does that mean that Bell was the sensible one in the new timeline? Did he not believe in “crossing the line” like in the original timeline?
    Very, very interesting. I love those subtle little differences that we get in this season.
    I also really like Dr Truss and I hope that we see more of him. He’s seems like a mix between “old timeline Walter” and “old timeline William Bell”.

    Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 14

    • J.P. says

      No, Dr. Warren always said that in both timelines, and Bell just quoted her later to Dr. Truss. The timeline was rewritten upon Walter and Peter falling into the lake. Everything beforehand was and is the very same.

      Like: Thumb up 0

      • g33k says

        Considering this is a show about time travel now, plus mix that with Bell’s comments in momentum deferred of “I have seen history repeat itself enough times to know…” and I don’t know if we can reliably say who said what first anymore! ;-) Or even what first IS. lol

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9

        • J.P. says

          Fair enough, g33k. I can continuously see you are a true Fringe fan, and know enough about this show to put up a decent argument.

          Like: Thumb up 0

        • Red Balloon says

          @g33k, Yeah!, I certainly have the loops all mixed up, imagine them Lol! :P.

          Poor Walter and Bell, how many times have they lived all over and over and over… how is it possible that they are even aware of that… it must be hell indeed.

          Like: Thumb up 4

    • Red Balloon says

      That’s a pretty good argument @ObservetteMARCH, since in this time-line, both Peters died, then Walter, Bell and Nina were affected by this double tragedy differently from the original time-line, to the point that Carla’s beliefs got to William’s.

      What I find interesting now, is Nina’s double standard on ethics. So she adopted Olivia and Rachel apparently for a good hart reason, but states to a room full of employees or associates that “We create technology. How it is used is not our concern. We just own the patents”.

      Well, that’s Fringe, good old and new mysteries in hand :)

      Well-loved. Like: Thumb up 10

      • Mel Duff says

        Thanks for bringing up Nina’s questionable ethics. Nanotechnology is essentially a change at the molecular level, no? This speaks directly to many of the rogue scientists’ experiments we’ve seen throughout the series, specifically in what seemed to be standalone episodes at the time. Perhaps Nina has been directing more of these than we know about.

        Like: Thumb up 1

        • Red Balloon says

          Yeah @Mel Duff, exactly what I had in mind!… Every time I hear Walter and Bell saying that Olivia has always being the strongest, and the corthexi-kids favorite, I’ve been afraid that she isn’t even human…I mean, we’ve seen all kinds of things coming out of MD, like those clones, and the advanced growing (creepy), so who’s to say Olivia wasn’t created by them, along with the other corthexiphan subjects… OMG… just saying it really gives me the chills.

          Like: Thumb up 1

  27. Alaina says

    Hey Fringies, the review of the ep is already up over on Seriable! Getting my coffee and sitting down to analyze the ep again with Roco’s wonderful insight!! :)

    Like: Thumb up 3

    • Red Balloon says

      Thanks @Alaina, That’s another ship I’ll always be on board, Roco’s reviews are indeed insightful and hilarious. I will re-watch the episode first though :)

      Like: Thumb up 4

  28. Leonardo Souza says

    Hey guys..do you think that this “yellow/orange” timeline will last the whole season? Or will we ever go back to that timeline that we were following since first season?

    Like: Thumb up 1

    • ObservetteMARCH says

      @Leonardo Souza
      Hmmm….good question. I really really hoped (and still have a bit of hope) that it will go back to the “old” timeline but as this season progresses it seems to me more and more unlikely. I think the show or at least this season won’t bee going BACK. If it does go anywhere it will most likely go FORWARD to “somewhere we’ve never been before” *wink wink*! I think the current timeline is here to stay….for now….or at least until Peter manages to make THEM remember or until THEY figure out just what the hell happened and why he was erased.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9

      • Leonardo Souza says

        I completely agree with you, I thought they were going back to the old timeline, but now Im not really sure..

        Like: Thumb up 1

        • Isa says

          I think we are going back to the original timeline. The time lapses Walter and Olivia saw are the begining of this. It won’t be the yellow/orange open credits forever, so they there are there to show us this is different and, hopefully, only for a period of time. I can’t see the show not going back to the original credits and, then, original timeline.

          It’s like Olivia Over There. It lasted for 8 episodes, and then she was back. I think this new timeline is going to last for 8 or 9 episodes as well.

          For the record, I’m totally spoiler free, so this is just a guess.

          Like: Thumb up 2

    • FringeFriday says

      One of my friends said, when Fringe ends, we will see Olivia in the bra and panties tank waking up in S1.

      I don’t even know if we ever go back to the old timeline? Or they do something completely new and “correct” this timeline- now that Peter is back, the future sure changes and his return can’t be “good” for the new timeline.

      Like: Thumb up 1

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