FRINGE: 4.02 One Night In October

Fringe_Season_4_Episode_2_One_Night_In_October1

A SERIAL KILLER FORCES THE TWO FRINGE TEAMS TO WORK TOGETHER ON AN ALL-NEW “FRINGE” FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 30, ON FOX

As the victims of a highly intelligent serial killer “Over There” stack up, the Fringe Division “Over Here” is asked to assist. As the two sides tangle and innocent people remain at risk, the suspect’s doppelganger “Over Here,” a professor who teaches Forensic Psychology, is brought into the fold and forces the team to consider the notion of sending civilians to the other side in the all-new “One Night in October” episode of FRINGE airing Friday, Sept. 30 (9:00-10:00 PM ET/PT) on FOX. (FR 4.02) (TV-14 L).

Cast: Anna Torv as Olivia Dunham; Joshua Jackson as Peter Bishop; John Noble as Walter Bishop; Lance Reddick as Phillip Broyles; Blair Brown as Nina Sharp; Jasika Nicole as Astrid Farnsworth; Seth Gabel as Lincoln Lee

Guest Cast: John S. Ferguson as John McClennan; Enid-Raye Adams as Noreen Miller; Jordy Olson as Megan Miller; Benjamin Wilkinson as Jeremy Roman; Winson Wong as Agent Bergmann; Daniel Arnold as Agent Perez; Julie Schnekenburger as Margery.

Sneak Peek:

Fringe 4.02 "One Night In October" Ratings

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Comments

  1. hal says

    will you Peter puffers be able to hold up through this one? ;)

    I hope they dont can the human shapeshifter story for this entire episode..

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    • mlj102 says

      I disagree. What makes you say that it’s as if the budget was cut in half? Because I thought it looked fantastic. I loved the filming and the angles. I thought the scenes with the duplicates together were always done with extreme precision and attention to detail, so much that if I were watching Fringe for the first time, I would think Anna Torv or the person who played John had twins, because it genuinely seemed like there were two of them in the same place. I couldn’t tell that it was merely a trick with the cameras. The music was wonderful as always. Perhaps the budget is less this year, but I sure wouldn’t have been able to tell from this episode.

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      • says

        What is the Fox TV budget for Fringe?
        It is on record that the 2 hour pilot was filmed in Toronto for $10 million.
        Maybe the money that they spent on Fringe so far has been moved to Terra Nova’s budget … ?

        I liked the double shots of Olivia and Bolivia. Holy moly !!
        Bring on Walternate and Walter next. A double dose of crazy, mad scientist Walter, and perfect postured and stoic Walternate. This could be very interesting.
        John Noble sharing the screen with himself. Very Shakespearean.

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    • Hatch says

      Apparently in this Peter-less version of the continuity, Alt-Broyles wasn’t killed. Which kind of kills my theory from last week…

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      • Cody says

        It was Peter that noticed that the woman was a shape-shifter at the airport and killed her right before putting Olivia in the FBI truck and soon she transported to the other-side taking the place of dead Alt-Broyles. This may have caused a ripple because Peter wouldn’t have killed the shape-shifter since he wasn’t there… Maybe someone else entirely helped our Olivia get back home instead of alt-broyles.

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  2. Hatch says

    I was worried about this episode (how many serial killer episodes have we had?), but I found it extremely compelling. The actor who played the professor/killer was very good. Tortured Walter was hard to see, I loved that shot of him sitting in front of all the speakers while they seemingly grew larger in front of him.

    So this Olivia killed her stepfather? Interesting.

    Also nice to see Alt-Broyles, though it kind of diminishes the impact of his death. I hope we go back to the original continuity soon.

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    • megan says

      I was thinking the same thing about Broyles. Now that he’s alive in this timeline it lessens his death from the old timeline

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      • LMH says

        Things have a way of repeating themselves, albeit differently, in Fringe. The cyclical nature of the show that is often discussed here may rear its head again. Though I don’t wish any harm to alt-Broyles, it’s entirely possible he may play the hero again and sacrifice himself, it’s in his nature.

        The biggest shock for me was that this Olivia must have pulled the trigger a third time on her Stepfather and “finished” him off when he “dared her.” Either that, or for some reason, the two shots killed him. That would definitely have had an effect on a 9-year-old Olivia, having taken a life. Maybe that’s one reason this Olivia seems more hardened, tough, and shut down than what we’re used to seeing. Due to that, and of course, the absence of Peter.

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        • Niomi Lianne says

          remember peter helped olivia when she was getting abused? because of that, maybe she was unable to kill her step father because Peter had softened her. And I agree, killing a man, no matter how horrible, takes a toll (imagine the weight on a 9 year old girl)

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          • Dylan says

            I think it’s more the absence of the trials, therefore Walter telling the stepfather to back off. Without that intervention, he would have no doubt just kept going freely until Olivia snapped.

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            • mlj102 says

              How can we be certain that the cortexiphan trials didn’t happen? They weren’t done simply as a way to get Peter back over there, nor were they done as nothing more than a means of defending against a future war after Walter crossed over. While the actual timeline for the trials is unclear, we know Cortexiphan was given to young children, and that those trials must have been initiated independent of anything going on with Peter. It was all part of the fascination/apprehension surrounding the other side and experimenting with a way to limit the limitations of children. Who’s to say the trials didn’t still take place in this new timeline? Sure, it’s possible that they didn’t happen, but personally, I’m of the opinion that they still would have happened. But, without Peter there, perhaps he never helped Olivia learn how to handle the matter and additionally, he wasn’t there to encourage her to confide in Walter, resulting in the same end result.

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              • Dylan says

                Well, originally the trials took place in preparation to defend our side against the other (following the events involving Peter) – based off of William’s theories.

                It’s entirely possible that they occurred, although obviously for different reasons.

                At the moment there’s been nothing to indicate that they ever took place, and all this is working on what we have been shown rather than what we have yet to be.

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                • mlj102 says

                  “Well, originally the trials took place in preparation to defend our side against the other (following the events involving Peter)”

                  Not necessarily. And that’s what I mean when I say the timeline, as well as the purpose behind the trials, have been unclear, because there have been quotes that support that sequence of events. But there have also been several things that have indicated that the trials were taking place in the early 80s — before Walter crossed to the other side, resulting in damaging Over There and initiating the war between the two sides. It seems they were interested in Over There and experimenting on the children before Walter crossed over, making the trials independent of Walter’s actions in crossing over. It could certainly be as you say, but I’m personally of the opinion that the trials happened before Peter died, so they still would have happened if Peter had died/never existed/Walter never crossed over.

                  “At the moment there’s been nothing to indicate that they ever took place”

                  I could also make a similar argument that, based on what we’ve seen so far, I haven’t seen anything to suggest that they didn’t happen. Besides that, while it’s possible that the trials never happened, or that Olivia wasn’t involved, I personally find it hard to believe that the producers would go that route and reveal that something that is so key to things happening in Fringe didn’t happen in this timeline. So I’m going to have to stick with the opposite opinion that they happened unless they ultimately reveal that they didn’t.

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                  • Dylan says

                    what you forgot to also quote me on:

                    “It’s entirely possible that they occurred, although obviously for different reasons”

                    “and all this is working on what we have been shown rather than what we have yet to be”

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                    • mlj102 says

                      My apologies, but I didn’t feel it was necessary to quote your entire comment. I acknowledge that you suggested that they still could have happened. But your ultimate conclusion was that the trials must not have happened, so I responded accordingly by pointing out why I feel like they would have still happened.

                      “It’s entirely possible that they occurred, although obviously for different reasons”

                      I didn’t quote this because I disagreed with it, but I felt I addressed it in my overall response. Yes, you are suggesting that the trials might have happened, but I don’t think that, for them to have happened, it had to have been for “obviously different reasons.” It has been presented that the trials were conducted a) as an experiment to attempt to limit the limitations of children, b) in order to prepare the children to protect their world from the threat of the other side, and c) as a result of Walter taking Peter and in an attempt to send Peter back. All of these reasons could still be valid, aside from the last one about Peter. So I don’t think they would have to have been conducted for extremely different reasons.

                      “and all this is working on what we have been shown rather than what we have yet to be”

                      As I said, I don’t feel like we have been shown anything that could be interpreted as a solid reason to believe that the trials haven’t happened. If I’ve missed something, please feel free to point it out. But just because they haven’t mentioned them at all doesn’t mean they aren’t talking about them because they didn’t happen.

                      “Does Walter no longer having broken through to the other universe in order to save the other Peter, thus creating “the first crack in a series of cracks, spaces between the worlds” which later contributed to the existence of ‘the pattern’, not count as something key?”

                      Certainly crossing over to save Peter is an essential aspect of the show. However, I believe the act and the consequences are being depicted as still having happened, only without Peter in the picture. I believe Walter still crossed over, resulting in all the things you mentioned. But not to save Peter. Or, perhaps he did cross over to save Peter, but was unsuccessful in this new timeline. Perhaps everything happened as it did before, except the observer didn’t rescue Peter from drowning in the lake, so Walter managed to survive, but Peter didn’t. That would certainly explain Walter’s behavior even more because he feels directly responsible for killing Peter. Whatever the case, we don’t know those specific details yet. But I believe that the producers haven’t fully erased that key event — the basic outline and premise still exists. But without Peter.

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                  • Dylan says

                    “I personally find it hard to believe that the producers would go that route and reveal that something that is so key to things happening in Fringe didn’t happen in this timeline”

                    Does Walter no longer having broken through to the other universe in order to save the other Peter, thus creating “the first crack in a series of cracks, spaces between the worlds” which later contributed to the existence of ‘the pattern’, not count as something key?

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        • Dylan says

          I haven’t really seen anything on Fringe that really complements a cyclical nature. But it would be interesting.

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      • mlj102 says

        I don’t think Colonel Broyles’ return lessens his death in the previous events. It still happened and was still powerful to watch. Just because it didn’t happen in the Peterless timeline doesn’t change the magnitude of his sacrifice. I do agree that I don’t want them just going around and bringing back characters left and right just because they can, nor would I find it to be compelling if they continued to kill of a particular character, only to find new and creative ways to bring them back, only to kill them again (perfect example: Sylar — or pretty much any character for that matter — from Heroes). But just this once, I can accept because it is a new timeline, so things didn’t happen the same way. But that doesn’t change the power of how it happened the first time around. I don’t know if that made any sense at all — I don’t really know how to explain it, but for whatever reason, I don’t feel like him still being alive in this timeline in any way lessens the impact of his death when he helped Olivia return.

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        • Dylan says

          It depends on whether or not this timeline remains after Peter has returned. If these character-versions do remain, then it will lessen the impact of AltBroyle’s death.

          Much like how the soul-magnets storyline proved detrimental to Bell’s “sacrifice” in the season 2 finale.

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        • Hatch says

          I know what you mean mlj. And don’t get me wrong, it’s great to have the character back. It’s just that when good character dies in a piece of fiction, you feel a sense of loss, and bringing them back again (even if it is in some new alternate timeline) kind of removes that sense of loss. For example, even though Jones was a fascinating character, I think it would be kind of cheap to bring him back in this “version” of Fringe. Of course I’ll be interested to see how this shakes out, I just don’t want them to abandon the original timeline.

          Then again these writers usually impress me, so I probably shouldn’t be too concerned.

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  3. megan says

    This was a good episode. I really enjoy the alternate universe and seeing the prime characters interact with their dopplegangers! So cool
    This really enjoyed the story this week and thought the the gentleman who played John was fantastic.
    It’s good to see AltBroyles again. I’m curious to see how his death/life will play out once Peter returns.
    BTW did anyone think that maybe John and the woman who helped him as a kid may have had an inapporiate relationship? Not to be crass or anything, but looking at his flashbacks kinda give me that impression :s

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  4. Cody says

    This is the Fringe i know and love. Better episode than the first, in my opinion. If this episode doesn’t attract new viewers than i don’t know what will. So Olivia said she killed her step-dad??!?!?! Whats up with that?!?

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  5. Ben says

    Walter’s ranting about the evilness of the Over There universe is a little scary. He sounds like Walternate except without self control. I guess he’ll get worse until he gets better.

    The serial killings that the other world’s McLennan were committing sort of reminded me of “Northwest Passaage.” I wonder if that was a deliberate parallel.

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    • Hatch says

      I thought of Northwest Passage toward the end there too, I kept wondering if they were gonna make a connection somehow.

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    • Dylan says

      He almost looks like Walternate too.

      I don’t think seeing him and Walternate standing face-to-face will have quite the same effect as seeing our old and favourite Walter in the same situation.

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  6. williamreturns says

    I liked the ep. I liked all the Peter related ideas/feelings. Is it just me, or does it seem like Anna lost weight? I know it doesn’t matter, and she is still awesome and beautiful, but I kinda like the way she used to fill out those jeans :) Nothing derogatory, I just thought she always had a very feminine shape and now she seems a bit more straight.

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  7. Walternate says

    Superb episode! Can anyone tell me what happened after Broyles and Liv are talking in the hospital? My DVR cut off and when I finally managed to turn it back, I saw Peter shouting at Walter. Can somebody fill me in on that please?

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  8. says

    Trying to skip the comments to keep from seeing spoilers. I just started my episode fromthe DVR and had to comment on the interaction between Olivia and Astrid. It’s nice to see in the new timeline that there is some acknowledgment that these 2 have history and a relationship. It wasn’t just a greeting it was a whole conversation. It was a banter much like Altlivia has with her team over in Fringe Division.

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  9. Anita says

    So I have a question about Altliv and the stepdad thing. Did she never get abused as a child, even in the Original Timeline? Is that because her mom was still alive? When did Ourlivia’s mom die again?

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    • FinChase says

      That’s what it appears. There’s always been the suggestion that this was the “undamaged” version of Olivia. Of course, bones that have been broken and mended are usually stronger than bones that have never been broken.

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      • Niomi Lianne says

        ourlivia’s mom died when she was 14. she shot her stepdad when she was nine. Her real dad died when she was 4 I think. (around the time of the cortexiphan trials) my geuss is that altlivia’s dad never died. I wish they would explore more about ourlivia’s dad and her relationship with him. I don’t think he’s still alive in the altverse though or we would have seen him. There were too many important moments in altlivia life during the show for her father to not be there. but, altlivia has only expirienced recent trajedy (her sister and possibly her dad) while olivia has had deep dug childhood trajedies which have cause quite a lot of trauma.

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        • FinChase says

          I agree; I don’t think Olivia’s father is alive. As for AltLivia’s father, I’m not sure. There was no sense that her parents were living together in that house in Tarreytown. Of course, they could have been divorced, but I tend to agree that he is probably also deceased. I did wonder if perhaps AltLivia had also had a stepfather (the same guy??) and had a good relationship with him. It would fit with her apparently much smoother early life.

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    • Jen says

      Olivia’s mom died when she was 14 (per 3.01 “Olivia”). She was 9 when she shot her stepfather (per 1.06 “The Cure”).

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  10. FinChase says

    This was a really good episode. I’ve noticed that the two women who wrote it, Owasu-Breen & Schapker, tend to write really strong episodes (“The Plateau”, “Bloodline” and “The Last Sam Weiss” are some of their’s) so when I saw their names on the credits, my expectations went up.

    Very interesting that Olivia in this timeline actually killed her stepfather. One of my friends and I have had a debate on what something like that would do to her character. My friend always believed that AltLivia was the version of Olivia who did actually kill her stepfather. However, it confirms what I thought last year, that AltLivia was the version who was not abused as a child. I will be interested to see what, if any, effect this has on the Olivia/AltLivia relationship. Perhaps AltLivia will have a bit more compassion now for her guarded double. She certainly hasn’t up until now. Odd that she didn’t find out about the stepfather when she was impersonating Olivia. You’d assume something like that would be part of Olivia’s FBI records.

    It appears that Olivia did not cross over willingly but that AltLivia somehow crossed over and kidnapped her. We don’t even know if Olivia in this timeline has the capacity to cross over. Perhaps in the reset timeline AltLivia was the one treated with Cortexiphan. It also appears that Olivia was not implanted with AltLivia’s memories or forced to live her life. I sort of hate that part, actually, because that whole story arc last year was the best part of season 3, IMO.

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    • says

      They certainly are trying to drive the point home that Altlivia played the part of Olivia Over Here, but not necessarily the other way around. Come on, though! Who got a “case of the sads” when they realized that if Peter foray exist then Altlivia was Over Working her “VAGENDA!”. I mean, really! It was the one punctuation mark missing from Walters exposition for new viewerrrs..eh hem… I mean, Lincoln.

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    • says

      “Perhaps in the reset timeline AltLivia was the one treated with Cortexiphan.”

      Either that or we just haven’t gotten to that part in the saga yet. We still don’t know where Peter is and once he is “back” the effect that has on the whole narrative. Does everything go back to “normal” once they can all remember Peter? I’m still baffled how that will play out. Seeing as such effort is being put into makingthe distinction between this timeline and the other timeline.

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      • Natasha says

        I’m a bit worried about what’s going to happen when Peter returns because I’ve always assumed that everything would be back to normal, but from what I’ve heard lately (I’m pretty spoiler free, so I haven’t heard much), maybe it won’t be. Which makes me sad because it would invalidate all the character growth from the last three years and that would extremely bad IMO.

        I guess I’ll just have to hope for the best and trust the writers, they’ve been amazing so far so hopefully they won’t let us down now.

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        • Roneo says

          I’ve always wanted to recover the original timeline and the character status on it, sooner or later. But now I’m worried about losing these new characters; I’m starting to like Linc, and to enjoy the game between these untanned Olivias….and now I’m wishing to retain both; Will it be posible, to recover our old guys but not forget this time between?

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    • scully8 says

      They (writers) also wrote Marionette which was a powerful character revealing episode.

      I loved this episode. I don’t throw around the word brilliant, but this episode deserves it! I loved the Olivia(s) interaction and Agent Lee was very cool. I’m not his biggest fan, but I’m definitely digging the Action Lee. I’m also warming to AltLivia . . . she cracks me up.

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    • lizw65 says

      “Odd that she didn’t find out about the stepfather when she was impersonating Olivia. You’d assume something like that would be part of Olivia’s FBI records.”
      Olivia killed her stepfather as a juvenile, presumably in self-defense, so she would not have been charged with a crime–and even if she was, her record would have been wiped when she turned 18 anyway.

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      • Dylan says

        I’m sure that there are different conditions surrounding a person when in youth they killed someone.

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      • FinChase says

        Oh, I don’t think she was charged with a crime. If the circumstances are unchanged from what was described in “The Cure”, it was certainly justifiable homicide. And I understand that this would have been a juvenile record, but have trouble believe the FBI wouldn’t have investigated this before accepting her. It would have been part of her psychological profile.

        However, it’s obvious that AltLiv didn’t know. I’m curious to know how if this information influences her at all. I loved her reaction when Olivia oh-so-cooly tells her she killed the stepfather. She wasn’t expecting that.

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  11. Anita says

    Do you guys think Altlivia crossed Over Here and got the piece and just crossed back bringing Ourlivia back Over Here? Because Alt-Broyles didn’t die, but why would they safely bring Ourlivia back? Hmmm…..

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  12. MISSNETT says

    I really enjoyed this episode! I’ve got to say Anna Torv is brilliant! The look on Altlivia’s face as our Olivia’s telling the professor about her stepfather was so subtle yet so revealing. Loved the exchange between Astrid and Olivia also.

    Also has anyone else noticed how gorgeous Seth Gables eyes are?! It’s a shame they are covered by glasses on our side!

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  13. says

    Ok finishedt he episode. Well, it actually went darker than I was expecting, but it played out better than I thought it would. It is awesome to see Fringe weave in “case of the week” episodes into it’s own overarching narrative.

    So Walter, in the chair, with the wall of speakers blasting Motzart totally reminded me of that commercial from the 80s. I think it was for a cassette player. It has been parodied before and so I was half expecting poor Walter to be literally “blown away” by the volume of the music :-)

    I see I how the writers did away with havin to address Olivia’s step-father sending her birthday cards under her door every year. New Timeline: Instead of shooting him, she kills him. Done and done!

    I am not as bothered by Alt-Broyles still being alive. It would have been too much of a dichotomy to have Alt-Lincoln the big dog Over There. There needed to be that balance between the teams and so therefore once again…New Timeline: Broylnate Lives!

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  14. Jen says

    I’m with those of you who liked this week’s episode better than the premiere. I know the case-of-the-week often reinforces the themes the show explores in the overall storyline but I thought this one was especially well placed. I missed Walter. First they erase Peter and now I only get 5 minutes of Walter in an episode!?! And still no Nina!! I was glad to see that alt-Broyles is still alive and since Altlivia is still with Frank, I’ve got my fingers crossed that we’ll see his beautiful face again. Loved that alt-Charlie is apparently on his honeymoon with the bug lady. Does anyone else want to know how they have accomplished keeping gas prices so low Over There? Forget working with the alternate Fringe team, we need to be working with their Department of Energy. I couldn’t help but think of Juliet’s journey to the Island (on LOST) when Olivia told the Professor that he had to be tranquilized for the trip. -Sorry for rambling. Just trying to get all of my first impressions and questions out.

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  15. Mike Mike says

    I think this who “peter’s gone” things is BS.

    It is basically like Rosanne woke up and said “this was all a dream” so now they can redo every time line.

    It lessens the impact of everything that has happened before.

    BOOOOOOO!

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    • Dylan says

      I’m having trouble investing in anything that is going on because of it.

      I just want to go back to the characters who I know, and see some resolution to the many things that happened last season and an ultimate resolution to the main plot.

      It just seems unnatural for a show that had such a relentless pace last season, to return to having more procedural, stand-alone episodes.

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    • megan says

      I know what you mean.
      I love that Alt-Broyles is back.
      But at the same time, his death was a big deal last season. And to have hime back this season, lessens the impact of his death/sacrfice

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    • scully8 says

      Ditto. To see the two Olivia(s) together is to see Anna’s brilliance as an actress. I love the ladies — AltLivia is growing on me. She’s a bit of a mean girl and her swagger is out of this world. :-) I also liked Action Lee alot this episode.

      Just a fantastic episode!

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  16. JM says

    First of all I will say this was a great episode, fantastic acting by anna torv, even though IMO (dont know if anyone else found this) she seems to be exaggerating fauxlivias sassiness or whatever you want to call it, which i find slightly irritating, but nonetheless great acting. Slightly dissapointed with less walter screentime but from next episodes promo it does look like it will be focused more on him.

    But even though the episode had a great case, and the guy who played the serial killer was really good, i still cant help but feel no investment in these characters, and basically i was just waiting for the end for new insight on peter’s non-existence, which lets be honest there wasnt a lot was there? now i understand the writers need to write 22 episodes, but im still waiting for the season to start. I thought the point of these episodes was to show a world without peter, again this is solely my opinion, but they seem to focus to heavily on the case at hand and only give little snippets about the characters changed lives (which i dont really care about anyway)

    But i understand that the reset will last for most (if not all) of the season, so ill stop whining and get used to the idea. I want to make it clear i am not an insane fan, but i am just waiting for peter to be back into it, so the show is fringe again.

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    • lafra08 says

      I agree with you!!!!!I also can´t help but feel no investment in this “new” characters and I still hope that we finally come back to our beloved original timeline with Peter and old relationships:Peter/Walter, Polivia etc. I hope that it will be still in season 4!!!!!

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    • Dylan says

      I agree. Her performance last season involved more subtle differences, not too overplayed, and was a lot more natural and impressive because of it.

      Right now it’s just being overdone – but it’s no doubt what she’s being instructed to do. It’s just a shame, because it all just comes off as very gimmicky.

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      • scully8 says

        Dylan . . . I tend to agree about Anna’s altLivia, but I must say I find their interaction entertaining. I LOVED this episode, but I sorely missed Walter and looking forward to Peter’s return.

        I actually don’t need them to revert back to the OT; I think it will interesting to see Peter try to adjust to this timeline. However, I am ready for the Peter to return and get our original crew back together.

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      • Real1 says

        Honestly , Anna did amazing work , now we can see the true color of AltOlivia …. and I like it a lot .

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      • forever says

        i absolutely agree.

        im not so impressed with anna acting this past 2 episodes.

        in season 3, she was very good. now, it seems so overdone.

        now anna seems so thin and old; i dont think she is very healty right now

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        • FringeFriday says

          Altivia had to step into Olivia’s shoes, so you hardly saw her sassy they way she was in the last 2 episodes. And it’s not like we saw her a lot in her privacy with Frank (so he is still in the picture!), it was all more work related. And I guess you are hardly sassy around your boss!!!
          I like the sassy act, though ;)

          Olivia seems to have a lot going on in her life in this new timeline. It’s like she’s carrying the whole weight of two universes on her shoulders.

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      • mlj102 says

        I think there could be various explanations for why so many people are feeling like the portrayal of alternate Olivia is over the top.

        1) We are seeing the two of them together, which we haven’t seen since Over There. That sort of direct comparison could easily cause the differences between the two of them to come across as that much more obvious. Part of it could be a psychological thing of seeing the two together, which highlights the things that make them appear much more different. We’ve seen alternate Olivia can be quite cocky and playful and smirking a lot, but it’s all the more obvious when we see her in contrast to Olivia’s subdued, serious personality.

        2) It’s meant to be seen as an intentional, natural response from the characters themselves when they’re face to face with their alternate. Clearly they don’t like each other and they don’t like being compared to one another. They want to remind themselves and everyone around them that they aren’t the same person as their alternate. A great example of this is how Olivia reacted when sitting in the car with alternate Lincoln after he’d asked if she wished she was in working the case, because that’s what alternate Olivia would be feeling. Because of this perspective, they purposely exaggerate the things they know make them different in order to make sure there is no question. So it’s meant to come across as deliberately extreme because they’re trying to distinguish themselves.

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        • Dylan says

          Your points deal with the character, rather than the portrayal of the character – which is what we’re discussing.

          With respect to ourselves and to you, we can actually differentiate between exposure to a character and to performance issues regarding an actress and her character. So, it would certainly be appreciated if we were given a little more credit.

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          • mlj102 says

            I have no problem in debating various topics with you, Dylan, however, I feel that some of your comments tend to come across as patronizing, insulting, and harsh. There’s no reason to demean me personally because I pointed out something different from how you view things. I can differentiate between “exposure to a character and to performance issues”. However, I don’t believe that Anna Torv’s performance as alternate Olivia is an issue of Anna Torv overacting. I think it’s intentional and can be explained in a reasonable way.

            You said earlier: “Right now it’s just being overdone – but it’s no doubt what she’s being instructed to do.”

            I was merely suggesting that she was being instructed to act as she has been for those reasons I stated. That it was based in character. I don’t think she’s been instructed to act that way for no reason or that they’ve told her to act that way because they wanted alternate Olivia to come across as more extreme. I was only pointing out that the portrayal they chose can reasonably fit in with the story if people will acknowledge that perspective. If you disagree, then you’re welcome to respond. But I would appreciate it if you would refrain from insulting me personally in the process. (“With respect to ourselves and to you” notwithstanding, it was still an insult).

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            • Dylan says

              Your comment; “I have no problem in debating various topics with you, Dylan, however, I feel that some of your comments tend to come across as patronizing, insulting, and harsh. There’s no reason to demean me personally because I pointed out something different from how you view things. I can differentiate between “exposure to a character and to performance issues””

              My comment; “With respect to ourselves and to you, we can actually differentiate between exposure to a character and to performance issues regarding an actress and her character. So, it would certainly be appreciated if we were given a little more credit.”

              mlj102, I think you have misunderstood. The ‘we’ in my comment referred to myself and to those others that your previous comment had addressed, not to you.

              I was responding to what I had considered to be a condescending claim that we were complaining only because we weren’t able to understand what was going on.

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              • mlj102 says

                “I was responding to what I had considered to be a condescending claim that we were complaining only because we weren’t able to understand what was going on.”

                I don’t see anything from my original comment that should have come across as condescending. My purpose, as with any comment I make, was to offer a different point of view and to provide possible explanations for why the acting was deliberately more “overplayed”. If I offended you or anyone else, I apologize, but it was unintentional.

                “The ‘we’ in my comment referred to myself and to those others that your previous comment had addressed, not to you.”

                Your comment (“we can actually differentiate between exposure to a character and to performance issues regarding an actress and her character.”) implied that you and others who had commented were capable of distinguishing between performance and character, while I could not. And I found that to be rather insulting when I was simply adding my perspective to the discussion. If I misunderstood you, then again, I apologize, but that’s how it came across to me. However, no harm done. Moving on.

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                • Dylan says

                  I understand, and I too am sorry. The issue with online blogging is that it is often difficult to read the tone in someone’s writing.

                  In terms of “With respect to ourselves and to you, we can actually differentiate between exposure to a character and to performance issues regarding an actress and her character”, you appear to have stressed the ‘we’, whereas I intended the ‘can’ to be stressed – to be that we were capable of differentiating between the two and not that we were capable and you were not.

                  I suppose this is a prime example of something being lost in translation.

                  With this all cleared up, I suppose we do let by gones be by gones and move past all of this. Hopefully on to a better exchange in the future.

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    • g33k says

      “IMO (dont know if anyone else found this) she seems to be exaggerating fauxlivias sassiness or whatever you want to call it, which i find slightly irritating, but nonetheless great acting.”

      I think the sassiness and swagger is being exaggerated deliberately because up to the point where Fauxlivia found out about Olivia’s history with her stepfather, she probably thought herself superior to Olivia and she exaggerated it out of arrogance. I heard that the pass phrase that Fauxlivia used in season 3 on her secret file was “Even better than the real thing.” Because there’s no Peter influencing her that arrogance is obviously still intact.

      I bet her swagger gets taken down a bit now.

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  17. vlada_vvv says

    This was an amazing episode. To me it was better than season’s finale. Really. Just outstanding.
    I wish there was Nina, though.

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    • Dylan says

      I don’t remember hearing him say ‘please’ and ‘help me’. I just kept hearing him say ‘can you hear me?’, ‘I’m here’, and ‘Walter.

      That being said, it would have made a lot more sense for him to have said that.

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      • vishal says

        Exactly My point! the altalivia did crossover for that machine which was connected to peter and so to his child!!

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        • matt says

          that’s a good point! I did not think of that at all! how the heck did they start the BBM? or how do they remember doing it? if there was no peter, what powered it?

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          • Real1 says

            AltOlivia stole that important piece of BBM , which suggest that … that piece did trigger the BBM … which suggest that in some of time loop in case that there is no Peter no Henry .. the piece can trigger the BBM ! ir simply … 12,5 DNA of Walternate or Alteizabeth can trigger the BBM .

            This episode was good ,

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            • Dylan says

              I’m confused as to how any of them even found the machine and the depictions. It was a paradox right? So it would have needed to come from a future where a wormhole opened up – meaning mass destruction.

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              • Real1 says

                Yes .. but yet we don’t know how Walternate discovered about the BBM , in blue side the observer gave Olivia the drawing .

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                • Dylan says

                  She gave him the depiction of Peter in the machine, for the obvious reason that Peter was brought to the other side to help Walternate activate the machine.

                  I’m not too sure that he handed her anything this time around.

                  But this is all the problem of not knowing.

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          • g33k says

            In “The day we died” when Walternate calls Fauxlivia to the restarted machine and shows her the drawing with ponytail-Olivia in it he says to her “The drawing shows that you have a connection with the machine, that you can stop it, that you can turn it on.” So if the ponytail-Olivia prophesy drawing exists and was found by either Walter, perhaps Olivia started the machine in the same way one would take a crowbar to thunk a piece of equipment and pray it works. :-)

            We don’t know what if any prophesy drawings exist in the Orange universe, but if Walternate had both prophesy drawings for long enough to find and build the machine based on them, perhaps he had one or the other even before September’s ‘mistake’ that set things off course. I think Walternate had a pre-existing relationship with the Observers before Peter was kidnapped, he certainly had a nice long conversation with September in the lab while he worked on the cure. I wonder if that scene’s dialog exists! So curious! :-)

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            • Dylan says

              We still don’t know if Olivia can actually control the machine, like Peter, who whether she can just manipulate it. Interesting question though.

              There are other issues as well, such as whether or not the trials existed, the source of those specific emotions to trigger the abilities, it only being reserved for our Olivia, etc.

              I do hope they give us the answer to this sooner rather than later.

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      • FringeFriday says

        Peter triggered the BBM, simple as that, he triggered it and started a new timeline. Even they don’t know it, it happened. Paradox it is!
        I guess they blame each other for starting the thing. Walter was talking about Walternate’s plan to start the machine to erase Walter’s universe, but it sorta backfired and the bridge “appeared”- according to them.

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        • Real1 says

          Actually no .. it wasn’t Peter … Walternat used Henry’s DNA at the past time line because Peter in s2ep23 said it that the BBM is connecting to him which permit for Walternat to tie that the BBM is working by Peter and then by Henry’s DNA … Henry was Peter’s son .

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          • J.P. says

            Not exactly — I think FringeFriday meant that Peter was the one who actually entered the machine, and created the Bridge. I agree with his theory that Peter was always the one who merged the two universes, even though they simply forgot, and blame each other for starting it. At least… I think…

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          • FringeFriday says

            Walternate activated the BBM Over There with Henry’s blood, yes, but Peter was the only one to interact with the machine. He stepped in Over Here because Walternate activated it Over There, then he created the bridge. They simply all forgot the act and so they think Walternate must have “accidently” created the bridge.

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          • FringeFriday says

            he doesn’t exist in the new timeline. creating the bridge eradicated him from the timeline because “he served his purpose”. that’s the paradox thing about all of it, but Peter DID create the bridge.

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            • Dylan says

              But that’s not a paradox.

              And the timeline that exists now works on the idea that either Peter never existed, or he died as a child. In this new timeline, he still didn’t exist at the time this bridge was created, and so therein lies the issue – how could he have done it if he wasn’t existing?

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              • mlj102 says

                In this timeline, Peter didn’t power the machine. Whenever they’ve discussed the events surrounding the machine and the creation of the bridge, I have gotten the impression that from their perspective, the machine simply powered itself. It turned on and it created a bridge. Of course we know that it was Peter who did it, before he ceased to exist, thus creating this new timeline, but all they know is the machine turned on and instead of destroying everything, it created a bridge.

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                • Red Balloon says

                  I will add to this, that in this timeline I don’t think either Peter or Olivia appear in the drawing anymore.

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                  • Dylan says

                    I find it sad that, if the machines really are a paradox, the future must always involve destruction so that a wormhole will open up and allow the machine to be sent back in time.

                    What hope does that really give any of them? If the machine exists where they are, the future remains bleak.

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                    • idon'tremembermyname says

                      it doesn’t – THAT is the paradox. That when they finally get to the timeline that they are “looking for”, the one without mass destruction, the wormhole does not ever exist in the future to send back the machine, breaking the timeline cycle/timeloop. It may be easier to think of as a loop – it happens over and over again until they ‘break free’… it is a confusing concept but not impossible to understand, IF you are willing to actually think about it and embrace the fact that it will not make perfect sense to someone without a science background. It barely makes sense to me and I’ve read quite a bit on quantum mechanics, physics, etc.

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                • Dylan says

                  Regardless of what timeline it is, the machines exist in all of them and the machines can only be operated by Peter.

                  The Observers pulling him out of things doesn’t change this fact.

                  I thought that they might have gone the “it powered itself” route, but last night’s episode quashed that idea when Walter discussed how Walternate activated the machine, thinking that it would destroy our world – but instead it created the bridge.

                  This new timeline fundamentally operates on either Peter not existing, or Peter having died as a child (same thing really, just different circumstances). Now, for this timeline, Peter would have had to exist at some point to create the bridge.

                  This is one of the big plot holes right now.

                  In a recent video with the producers, they explain that Peter created the bridge in this new timeline. I don’t think, judging by their comments, that they are aware of the conflicting bits of information here (Peter not existing + Peter activating the machine and creating the bridge).

                  Issues. Many issues.

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                  • FringeFriday says

                    To be honest, I don’t see issues with the machines. I don’t know what to say to explain it to you, but to me this is all logical.
                    They don’t need to send back the parts of the machine in the future because they already did in the other timeline we saw in the last season THUS creating the new timeline. The Observers talked about it, every decision results in a new timeline so there are millions of timelines out there. we only see this one displayed in the show.

                    I think you wonder why Peter seized to exist after he had created the bridge and all and why they don’t remember him, but we just don’t know yet how Peter is fitting into the new timeline with his none-existing/bleeding through. The show writers will unfold the story, I hope sooner than later, I am darn curious myself.

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                    • Dylan says

                      “They don’t need to send back the parts of the machine in the future because they already did in the other timeline we saw in the last season THUS creating the new timeline”

                      Unfortunately, regardless of what timeline it is, if the machine exists then so does the paradox.

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  18. matt says

    good episode! I liked it as an episode, but I gotta say I liked the premier much better. it actually addressed the overall story and this episode just seemed to focus on the case far to much for my liking, but this weeks two writers (who have written some of my favourite episodes, and some of my least…) managed to fit a few key scenes/story elements in which did help the episode continue the story line, it did still flow, but, the flow of story just kinda felt choked down to me from last week. I think they could have done a liiiiitle bit better of a job of using the case and going over there to tell more of the overarching story (maybe feature some more mythology, just a little yaknow?) it just felt too much like last season to me which kinda killed the whole reset feel for me. but there were some things in there I liked a lot, don’t get me wrong. just coulda been stronger I think.

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  19. Mel says

    John Pyper-Feguson has joined the ranks of best guest stars, imho. That was much better than last week’s episode, although I’m still annoyed that there hasn’t been a confrontation between Walter and Walternate. There has been so much Altlivia/Olivia, that I wish they’d throw us John Noble fans a bone. I get that they are leading us on the path for the Os to be best friends, but they are not the same characters as in S3, they don’t have the same baggage, so the edge is gone.

    I wish Anna Torv toned down her take on Altlivia, because she seems more a parody of a character than a real one. Her take on Olivia is much more appealing and much better here than in the premiere, where I couldn’t recognize the character at all, always one step behind Lincoln and letting him do all the brainy work. I’m satisfied to see she’s back to normal. I’d go as far as to say I prefer this version to the old Olivia, she’s less guarded, more confident and she doesn’t have any qualms in sharing her life experiences and feelings with strangers, see Lincoln last week or John in this episode. She doesn’t even mind sharing with the enemy. I can’t imagine S1-S3 Olivia telling Altlivia about her stepfather. She’s open, she’s professional and she lost the sad look from the premiere. I hope that’s here to stay.

    On the other hand, all this sharing means her bond with Peter didn’t mean much after all, but that goes to show nobody is irreplaceable. Did Peter’s absence have any influence in her shooting her stepfather dead? How? But that’s a good thing, isn’t it? She seems to be much happier now that she killed him.

    TBH, Walter should be breaking my heart, but I can’t feel for him as I would for S1-S3 Walter. This alternate version is still to new and strange for me. I hope he can help Peter back, although he’s not his son, real or “adopted”, it seems he’s Peter’s only hope.

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    • Natasha says

      I see you noticed the difference in Our Olivia when compared with the way she was during S1-3, but you aren’t applying that same logic to AltLivia. I think’s Torv’s take on the character wasn’t a mistake, I think this is the result of the change in AltLivia than the one we’ve seen in the past. She seems much more insecure than before and very antsy, her demeanour with AltBroyles after McLennan escaped was completely different than we’ve come to expect from her, and she seemed to act very rashly with Lincoln outside when they’re standing next to the van (him grabbing her before she barged in wouldn’t have happened in the original Redverse I’m sure of it).

      Oh and as someone who didn’t like RedLincoln last season, I find him a lot less annoying this year, so I think the actors are very purposely tweaking the way they play their Alt characters as well as the Blueverse ones, as well. It’s small things but very telling once you pick up on them.

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      • says

        The producers have stated that when Peter comes back he will not be the same.
        The same can be said with what is unfolding now with the characters of Olivia, Walter, Lincoln, and everyone else. The changed behavior is not one-sided … everyone has been affected, influenced, in a different way. Walter’s altered mental status and mood swings are a neon light for me. The writers have taken Walter out of Walter. and I hope the old Walter comes back to us safe and sound.

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      • number six says

        Yes, I noticed the differences between Amber!Olivia and Blue!Olivia and I also noticed the differences between last week’s Olivia and this week’s Olivia. I thought the point of last week’s episode was to depict her as sadder and colder, because she never had Peter in her life, but this week she’s so much warmer and happier, which buried that theory instantly. I think the point is that Peter wasn’t a positive or meaningful influence in her life, as opposed to his role in Walter’s life.

        As for Torv’s take on Altlivia, I can’t help but dislike her overacting with that character. She doesn’t feel real to me. I also disliked her exaggeration with Amber!Olivia’s stiffness last week, so I’m glad she toned it down.

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        • Roneo says

          “I think the point is that Peter wasn’t a positive or meaningful influence in her life, as opposed to his role in Walter’s life”.

          Yeah. I was feeling the same, that precisely is that what writters want to depict. It’s obvious that Walter is far worse without Peter. But the Olivia we have been seing is not more miserable; apart from the fact that she is with no boyfriend (and that in itself is not a misfortune), some things in her life are better, some are not, but she is quite essentially the same extraordinary person, so far. I guess that this will be refuted in some way in the future.

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          • number six says

            Agreed! :D I’m glad the writers are being so blunt about it. Peter had no positive influence on her whatsoever and I hope they let that awful P/O relationship die, it didn’t do them any favors.

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            • mlj102 says

              I’m afraid I have to disagree with the general conclusion presented here that Peter didn’t have a positive influence on her life. Sure, she hasn’t completely fallen apart like Walter has, but I wouldn’t expect her to. Walter was much more dependent on the stability that Peter provided. Peter was able to help keep Walter grounded and focused. But Olivia didn’t have that sort of dependence on Peter. She has always been tough and good at taking care of herself. It makes sense that that would continue without Peter. But there’s no question for me that Peter brought out a softer, perhaps more trusting side of her over the last three years. And that’s gone now. Peter certainly had an impact on her life, it’s just not as drastic or noticeable as the influence he had on Walter.

              Now the take on their relationship itself is certainly open to personal opinion. I don’t think there’s ever been a TV relationship where everyone was in favor of it. But I personally don’t see their relationship in such a negative light as many others have suggested. But regardless of your feelings about the relationship itself, I think it’s an over-exaggeration and an unfounded conclusion to claim that “Peter had no positive influence on her whatsoever.” I mean, really, no offense, but that’s pretty narrow-minded. You don’t have to like the relationship, but I don’t think you could make a valid argument that he has had no positive influence on her at all.

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              • number six says

                I would have agreed with you, before this season started, because I also thought Peter was a positive influence in her life. And no, I didn’t expect her to fall apart, but I also didn’t expect them to show how little he mattered. I admit I suspected something was amiss, when Anna Torv said such weird things (to me at the time) about how much pain Peter had inflicted on Olivia all this time, but it all makes sense now.

                There are hardly any changes on this Olivia, but they are positive: without Peter she had the courage to kill her stepfather, which makes her more confident. Without Peter she seems more open and friendly with others. She also seems more content and less burdened than OT Olivia.

                I don’t know if the writers plan to show how Peter helped her in any way, but I would welcome it, because they aren’t doing him any justice. Until then, I cannot say they are showing him as a positive influence to her.

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                • Real1 says

                  Interesting ! Olivia Walter and Peter are the lead characters of Fringe am not denying that , Olivia as a character is separated from both Walter and Peter , I mean that she is growing alone and frankly we don’t know how she becomes on what she is yet but we have a figment that she and Walter were good .. i mean that she was liking the day care and Walter since she was child and as adult she was understanding Walter better than any one else . For Olivia and Peter … I still do believe it was a destiny .. their relationship is a destiny and I like it a lot , at least it’s the major thing for Peter’s character IMO ,

                  For Walter and Peter , am always remembering Walter’s words for Peter that he should be open mind and not acting as how his mother was acted … and he must see all the facts not just the facts which please him .

                  I don’t like split the 3 characters even if there splitting will drive the story line ……..

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                • mlj102 says

                  Valid points from both you and Roneo. I can agree that there are certain areas in which Olivia does seem like things have improved for her without Peter. The producers did say that they intended to show how things had changed, both in bad ways and good ways. But I don’t think that suggests that he never had a positive impact on her. Just because we can’t directly see the loss in her life doesn’t mean there weren’t positive things that came from knowing Peter.

                  And, personally, I feel like while Olivia appears happier and more confident at times, I think that’s more a defense mechanism than anything else. I don’t know if I can explain it, but she almost comes across as somewhat hollow, like she’s learned to put on this good face, but her heart’s not really in it. It seems a bit like a mask. The closest I feel we get to seeing her as she truly is, is when she is fully immersed in something happening in a case, like when she ignored Lincoln and hurried to go talk to John after he’d realized something was wrong, or when she picked up on the clue for where he would have gone and briefly took charge of things while ignoring alternate Olivia. Moments like that, she seems to come alive. But in those in between moments, I feel like she’s holding back.

                  At any rate, whether we see it or not, whether she realizes it or not, I still feel that Peter had a positive impact on her. It’s just not as apparent or as singular or vital as the impact he had on Walter. But I simply can’t look at the first three seasons and their interactions and how she changed over those three years and say that he had no positive influence on her.

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              • Roneo says

                Well, I’ve said that “that” was what I felt about this new Olivia we are seing, not at all that I agreed with that idea. Cause I’m not. I like the Olivia post and with Peter, and I want both back. I just think that in Olvia’s case this “benefits” aren’t, by now, so obvious, but that in next episodes that will be proven wrong. And perhaps it will be more a matter of “choice” or “want” (subjetive) more than a matter of simply objective need. But this is just my intuition. I’m sorry if this doesn’t make much sense, English is not my language, and perhaps some words are not well used.

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                • lizw65 says

                  My opinion, for what it’s worth, is that killing her stepfather would have been a far more damaging act psychologically than letting him live, and I personally haven’t seen any evidence that this iteration of Olivia is happier or less burdened. But of course, YMMV.

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  20. Dylan says

    This episode was good. Not fantastic, by Fringe standards, but a good episode nevertheless.

    It was very season one-ish. Which I wouldn’t have minded if this wasn’t following everything that happened in season 3.

    Given the relentless pace of the last season, it doesn’t seem natural to go back to the more procedural-outings.

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    • Dylan says

      I’m still not invested in everything that’s happening.

      There are so many things that still need payoff from last season, and I really want to get back into that stuff rather than fill in time with what’s happening now.

      We all know Peter is going to come back, so strangely enough this entire thing just feels like filler.

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      • JM says

        Yeah, the intention was to show a world without peter and get us interested in it. These first two episodes have failed to do that, atleast in my case, as i said in another comment, im still waiting for the season to start, the episodes without peter are just preamble, no matter how technically good they are. One night in october, gave no progress whatsoever in regards to peter.

        The on the head dialogue still continued, highlight:”Do you ever think your type dosent exist?” one good thing about this exchange was that they (hopefully) confirmed that olivia will not date lincoln, thank god.

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        • Dylan says

          I thought they would have eased-up on the on-the-head dialogue, but it appears I was wrong.

          Will it be third time’s the charm for the next episode?

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        • Jen says

          I have to agree with you. Even though I did like this episode, it didn’t do anything to really progress the non-existant Peter storyline. However I did think that the case-of-the-week story did a great job of illustrating how one person’s influence can alter another’s life path.(It may be that this storyline appeals to me on a personal level because I have a severely disabled child and sometimes I wonder how my life might be different if he were different.)
          I am also unhappy with the dialogue. The one that bothered me the most was Broyle’s saying “Some people leave a mark on your soul that can’t be erased.” I could’ve done without that. To me it was the writers saying that I wasn’t smart enough to get the moral of the story. I am hoping they will get our feedback and lay off.
          Olivia may not date over here Lincoln but her interactions with over there Lincoln were reminiscent (atleast to me) of her early relationship with Peter. I could see them hooking up.

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  21. aci79 says

    I liked this episode better than the premiere. I felt that it was faster and more intense for some reason. Maybe the guest start elevated the case of the week.
    It seems that they are attempting to mix season 1 and season 3 a little.

    I do agree that Altlivia seems to be overly sassy.. but hey maybe that is how she is in this timeline. Olivia on the other hand is still scarred from her childhood, but she killed her stepfather this time around, so she doesn’t necessarily have been haunted by the birthday card every year and it being the unfinished business in her life.

    Olivia will always be the one with depth and strength as a character no matter what. Altlivia can always sympathize and show more respect toward her counterpart, be she can never be Olivia unless her background changed. And this episode somehow displays it even more.. Maybe I should not have left the photos.. No kidding.. not sure what she said word per word, but the way she said it was so eek to me.. as if she was saying.. oh well.. opps… my bad.. No lady.. it was a serious thing.. you shouldn’t be so careless..

    I think by Peter’s non-existence in the timeline triggers various differences, but I don’t think it would completely turn everything upside down. He is 1 person. I’m curious though on how they plan to address Peter bleeding through time.. and bringing him back into the fold.

    Can’t wait to see how everything play out the rest of the season.

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  22. J.P. says

    I thought this episode was much stronger than the opener. While I usually back away in fear at the “monster-of-the-week”/procedural episodes, this is one of the best they’ve done. I consider it to actually be one of my favorite FRINGE episodes. I look at it like “White Tulip” (which, without a doubt, has to be remembered as FRINGE’s best episode. Ever.), an episode that followed the walking-thin-ice concept that is a procedural, but contained incredible acting, emotion, and hightened the stakes for the rest of the season. My only disappointment is that we hardly even saw Walter!
    And, hey — Charlie’s married!!!

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  23. says

    We could be taking this all a little to literally. This is Season 4 of Fringe, we have got to know by this point that nothing is as it seems and 2 episodes in is definitely not even close to freak out territory in terms of gauging where the story is going.

    I thought at the end of S2 I would freak out if Altlivia wasn’t discovered post haste by our Fringe team, but after the S3E1 ‘Olivia’ I was ready for the ride and to see where the story took us. I am just as invested in this new timeline’s character’s because clearly, fans don’t have to forget everything they know up until now. The fun is in the details that are changing and discovering the REASON WHY. You don’t honestly think it is SIMPLY because Peter doesn’t “exist”? Do you? Those tricky Observers are up to something and we know from past experience with them that the possibilities are endless when it comes to how much influence they have on our characters.

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  24. Niomi Lianne says

    Is it me or does altlivia’s hair seem darker. I think they did this on purpose to make altlivia’s character a bit darker. She also seems to have a lot more attidute. I guess this is because she wasn’t grounded by baby henry or peter.

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  25. alexis says

    these two episodes so far have been ok. i would have liked a stronger start of the season, but i’m hoping that it will get better once peter is back in the story. so far they’ve just established what life is without peter, but nothing really has been going on. hopefully we’ll get some more action and mythology once boy wonder is back!

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  26. Pierce says

    Torv’s depiction of the alternate Olivia really conjures up a bad taste in my mouth, because I really dislike how condescending she is. However, I appreciate the subtle and overt differences she’s infused in to both characters, and how the two of them being forced to interact to the point of being in the others skins (so to speak) really impacted them. Olivia became less and less hostile and tolerable of the other Olivia’s antics. I could be wrong, but I got the impression that she started to pity the alternate Olivia a bit, because she realized that the jabs and irreverent attitude is really a front. Having to walk in her shoes and be honest about it isn’t the same thing as stealing it to deceive people in the name of her job.

    There’s a confidence about this Olivia that comes across as a bit intimidating to the alternate Olivia, and you really saw that in how twitchy and uncomfortable she became after being sidelined. Having to explain to Alternate Broyles what went wrong, and when she tried to ascertain if Olivia fed the professor a line to evoke empathy from him about the abuse he suffered. The impression I got from that is she hoped that Olivia would stoop to that level to gain an edge like she would.

    This correlated with the the guest character(s). The professor recognized what was inside of his doppleganger, and why he acted on those impulses. The defining differences in the paths they chose, but the compassion (or perhaps responsibility) the professor felt he owed his doppleganger…although it cost him those memories, it gave the other a moment of peace, and realization that he had no right to take what the other had experienced with Majorie as a greater influence in his life than their abusive fathers.

    The alternate Olivia didn’t experience the trauma of an abusive step-father, or the weight of killing him, which in itself is great. The irony of it, however, is that experience has made Olivia a far more compassionate, honest and fundamentally moral individual. At least, that’s the impression I get.

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    • Page 48 says

      I look for Altlivia and Ourlivia to develop an appreciation for each other as things progress. I don’t think it was any coincidence that Altlivia arrived on the scene in time to overhear Ourlivia talking about her abusive stepfather.

      IMO, this was part of a process that will see them move toward a greater understanding of each other. As that develops, I think we’ll see a softening of Altlivia’s cocky attitude. But, for us to notice the change in Altlivia, she has to start from a point that isn’t very pleasant for us to watch.

      I also think that Altlivia can’t help but observe that her Alt-Fringie colleagues relate to Ourlivia in a much more courteous and professional manner, and that she will eventually understand that Ourlivia is worthy of her respect. Ourlivia is in her somewhere, but she needs help ‘finding herself’.

      Or, maybe I’m just a dreamer and Altlivia is just a hopeless smart-ass who doesn’t button her jacket.

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      • FinChase says

        I agree with you, Page 48: I think the two Olivias will gradually move towards a deeper respect for one another. That’s necessarily the same thing as being friends, which I doubt happens, but it’s a good start. I think there was a definite reason for opening the season premiere last week with the petty bickering between those two. Their relationship is the relationship between the two universes in a nutshell. They have to learn to respect one another’s differences and appreciate the other’s strengths in order to forge a real working relationship. They may have taken a baby-step towards that this week. We’ll see what happens next.

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  27. kidentropia says

    amazing, amazing episode! great character interaction; very good plot; and, for the first time in many many maaaany episodes, a truly interesting villain. it definitely helps that John Pyper-Ferguson gave an incredible performance.
    and tortured walter is tremendous. even in a walter-light episode, john noble is superb

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  28. okabekah says

    My goodness, I watched it live on Fox, then just had to watch it again online… There were just so many good scenes! One thing that struck me as telling about the character depth was how distinctive each of the originals and their alternates are now. I was watching Walter in the lab last night, and thinking, “Where’s Walternate? They’re not giving him any screentime!”, only to realize five seconds later that Walternate’s actor was right there. That’s the mark of great acting – one actor making the idea of two similar characters so believable.

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    • okabekah says

      Oh, and I’m definitely not the first, but shame on Nielsen for not taking viewings from non-US countries into account when they gauge ratings.

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  29. matt says

    how can anyone think this was faster paced and more relevant than the premier? i suppose it was necessary to do this episode, for it to feel like the earlier seasons but without Peter and to drive home the few larger-picture plot elements that were there, but really? faster paced? more relevant? I’m not so sure about that.

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  30. g33k says

    Did anyone else think this episode was like a Fringe take on “Dexter”? They should have John Pyper-Ferguson guest on Dexter as a bad guy, he was sooooo good!

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  31. says

    Fauxlivia was exposed to herself as “Fauxlivia” now. She thought she was the bad-ass, and our Olivia was just a whimp. But now she knows that our Olivia shot and killed her stepfather; Alt-Astrid didn’t have time to do the calculations, but Olivia just stepped up and said, “He was sitting on a tractor that had the commercial driving plate on it XYX-YZZ.” Ah, yes, she has a photographic memory. Not only that, but Fauxlivia realizes (in that deep place in your heart that you’ll never admit to anyone), once again, that Olivia was a Marine, a Profiler at that, and all Fauxlivia had was a gold medal from the Olympics for sharpshooting. And, to top all that off, Olivia solves things, she doesn’t sit back and let Alt-Lincoln do all the brain work.

    It was Olivia, not Fauxlivia, who was with alt-Lincoln when they found the bunker. Take that, Fauxlivia.

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  32. mlj102 says

    These are just a few quotes I’ve selected out of the comments that all touch on a common theme I’ve noticed in many of the comments:

    Dylan: “I’m having trouble investing in anything that is going on…”

    Dylan: “I just want to go back to the characters who I know, and see some resolution to the many things that happened last season and an ultimate resolution to the main plot.”

    Dylan: “We all know Peter is going to come back, so strangely enough this entire thing just feels like filler.”

    JM: “basically i was just waiting for the end for new insight on peter’s non-existence”

    alexis: “so far they’ve just established what life is without peter, but nothing really has been going on.”

    I’m finding that these types of comments are all very reminiscent of the types of reactions to the beginning of season 2, where everyone was all upset that they weren’t showing the meeting between Bell and Olivia and what happened while she was over there. It wasn’t until the fourth episode of that season that we finally found out what happened over there. Instead, it built up to it with Olivia’s journey to recovering after traveling between universes. Though many were frustrated by how long it took, I found that mini-arc to be fascinating and I felt that it added that much more power and relevance to it when they finally did show what happened, rather than just giving it right away when everyone wanted and expected it. I think it enhanced the greater story.

    I think it’s the same thing here. Everyone is talking about how insignificant everything is that’s happening right now, and how they should just get back to the story about where Peter is and bringing him back. But I think that’s completely missing the point. What good would that do? What are they supposed to do: erase Peter in the season finale, only to bring him right back in the premiere? I imagine the same people complaining about the way they’re doing things right now would be the same ones complaining if they did immediately bring Peter back, saying things like how pointless it was to erase him, only to bring him back and make things how they were by the next episode. I’m just not sure what alternative developments people would find more satisfying.

    A story as big and far-reaching as erasing a key character is bound to take some time to address and resolve. They’re establishing everything, building the world without Peter. What happens when someone suddenly ceases to exist? What would your life be like if someone you regularly interacted with was gone? How much of an influence does one person have on the world around them? And I find it fascinating the way they’re addressing the matter. I like discovering how events are so very similar to what happened previously, yet every now and then, there are those subtle differences. To those who say that nothing is happening, there’s a lot going on, but it’s in the details, in the background, in the things the characters say and do. It may not be one huge action sequence after another, but it doesn’t have to be.

    And to those who are complaining that the characters aren’t the same people as past seasons, isn’t that the point? They’re supposed to be showing how the characters have changed without Peter in their lives. They’re bound to be different. But the thing is, they’re still the same characters – Walter is still brilliant yet crazy, Olivia is guarded yet compassionate – but slightly different since Peter wasn’t there. It’s through differences like those that they’re addressing the matter of Peter’s absence.

    I am invested in what is going on because this is where the story has taken the characters, and I’m interested to see where they go from here. The characters are still our characters, the events still happened, only without Peter. And the showrunners would be fools if they didn’t explore that and develop it. I just don’t understand why so many people seem to be getting worked up about all this and losing patience when it’s all part of the story.

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    • Dylan says

      I was quoted three times there, yippie.

      Here’s the conundrum; Peter comes back, everything returns to normal, thus rendering the entire mini-arc as filler. Or, Peter comes back and it doesn’t return to normal, but consequently drops every lingering storyline and renders the character-work of the last three seasons as redundant.

      Quite the conundrum.

      My primary complaint is that all of these events are working around a giant plot hole, and so far the episodes and comments by the producers haven’t really gone out of their way yet to resolve the issue. Even worse, the more recent comments by the producers suggests that they aren’t even aware that the issue exists.

      This plot hole is pulling me out of it. These new forms of characters I’m struggling to invest myself in because of the narrative, and because of the scary and very-real possibility that this may be the last season and that time is being wasted.

      With all do respect, this isn’t a similar case to the beginning of season 2. I for one never minded that, because I understood why it was happening.
      This situation is different, the conditions surrounding it are different. This is general concern for the series, rather than for the mini-arc.

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    • Dylan says

      I also add that it’s against nature for a show to progress from a more-serialized third season to what is, so far, a more procedural-outing in its fourth season.

      At this point in any serialized-series, it’s time for some payoff rather than more build-up. You can balance the two, but right now it at least feels like the entire show is starting again.
      That’s how it feels, not necessarily how it is. That feeling is, however, quite detrimental to one’s experience of it all.

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    • Dylan says

      Another point (sorry, I promise to make this the last one),

      “The characters are still our characters, the events still happened, only without Peter”

      These characters aren’t our characters, they’re different. Some events happened differently, some events didn’t happen at all.

      This would be fine for a new show, but this isn’t a new show. This is potentially the last season of a show. And that is, beyond the other issues I have raised, the worst thing.

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      • mlj102 says

        Well, since I quoted you three times, I guess you’re allowed to respond three times. :)

        “Here’s the conundrum; Peter comes back, everything returns to normal, thus rendering the entire mini-arc as filler. Or, Peter comes back and it doesn’t return to normal, but consequently drops every lingering storyline and renders the character-work of the last three seasons as redundant.”

        It’s a valid point, and I won’t pretend that I have the slightest idea how they’re going to address it or resolve it. But I imagine they have something in mind that will find a balance between the two. I don’t expect that Peter will come back and everything will instantly return how it was. That would be somewhat pointless (though there would still be the relevance of how they got Peter back). I expect he’s going to have to reintegrate into the team and reestablish relationships. But I also trust the producers when they say that they’re not negating everything that has happened in past seasons. The thing is, events essentially played out the same way, only without Peter, which resulted in things being slightly different (such as Colonel Broyles still being alive). But it seems like the basic framework of Season 3 happened: Olivia and alternate Olivia switched places, the machine was built, the machine was activated, the bridge was made. So I imagine that the large majority of issues from last season are still in play and will still be addressed at some point.

        “This situation is different, the conditions surrounding it are different. This is general concern for the series, rather than for the mini-arc.”

        I’ll grant you that it’s not exactly the same, but it is similar. In both instances, fans were irritated that things seemed to be going slowly and there was a delay in getting to the point. At least that’s the general impression I’ve gotten from comments I’ve read. But you are right that this story is more relevant to the series as a whole. And as such, there’s reason to be concerned with how it will be resolved. But I just can’t believe that the writers and producers would take on a challenge as big and deep and complex as this without having a way of tying up the loose ends and bringing it all together. You may not have such confidence in them or their plans, but they wouldn’t mess with something as big as this without a plan. Now, whether or not that plan will be satisfactory, remains to be seen, but right now, there’s no reason to jump to conclusions.

        “I also add that it’s against nature for a show to progress from a more-serialized third season to what is, so far, a more procedural-outing in its fourth season.”

        I’m not really sure I see the difference between the seasons. Season 3 had the serialized thread through it all, but the episodes were not without a certain case of the week feel to them. The Box, The Plateau, The Abducted, and many more were all connected to the mythology of Fringe, but they were also clearly set up around a case of the week. I don’t see how it’s all that different from what we’ve seen so far this season. Last week was a shapeshifter case that held the potential for leading up to something more. This week showed the two universes working together on a case, all while setting the scene for what things are like without Peter.

        It seems your biggest concern is in getting answers to previously asked questions. And I agree that’s important. But Fringe has done a pretty good job at consistently moving the story forward and providing answers. I have no reason to expect that will change. They may not answer every question, but show me a mythology show that has answered every question. Right now the story is in a place where we’re getting more questions than answers, but that’s to be expected where they’re establishing things and setting the stage. That’s really pretty typical for the beginning of the season for Fringe. Just like we eventually got the answers of what happened when Olivia finally met with William Bell, I’m sure this is building up to more answers… we just have to be willing to wait a bit longer for them.

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        • Dylan says

          Well, I’ll give the writers the benefit of the doubt. But I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t a little worried.

          Let’s just see what the future has in store.

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          • says

            Dylan, please stop doubting the storyline. The writers are not inept or incompetant. It is not a case of the blind leading the blind. Every time the show takes a turn, a turn that at the moment you do not fully or completely understand, it is like the sky is falling. Please don’t panic and be a bit more reasonable.

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        • FinChase says

          MLJ = Voice of Reason!

          Seriously, I look forward to your comments almost as much as Roco’s reviews. You echoed my feelings here: Just be patient and let things play out for awhile. I’ve got my speculations as to where it’s going, but I’m sure the writers will completely surprise me with a direction I never expected, and that’s ok with me. I may not agree with all the decisions they’ve made but the story they tell is compelling enough to make this my only “must watch” show.

          I like that the characters are a bit different; it’s only to be expected. In fact, this was one of my (and many other people’s) complaints about the Olivia Switch arc last year and the fact that the people who knew her best didn’t realize Olivia was gone. I never felt that they truly answered that, and that Olivia let everyone (not just Peter) off the hook too easily. I’m hoping the writers learned from that and do this arc better. We’ll see.

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      • mlj102 says

        FinChase and Hatch: Thanks to both of you for your supportive comments — I appreciate it. Sometimes I worry I come across a bit harsh or ranting a bit too much, so it’s reassuring to know that you enjoy what I have to say!

        “You echoed my feelings here: Just be patient and let things play out for awhile.”

        Exactly. And it’s not like I’m trying to ignore negative things or sugar coat the bothersome things. I understand that Fringe isn’t perfect and it’s bound to do some things that are less than satisfying. That’s part of why I appreciate Roco’s reviews, because he honestly points out things that he felt were bad, along with the good things. And though I may sometimes disagree with some of what he thinks are good and bad, it’s reasonable to expect that there will be bad things. I just don’t think there has been enough to warrant some of the extreme criticism of these first two episodes and the way they’ve addressed certain elements of the story. Of course to each their own, but I can’t help but point out my own take on a matter when I see things so differently. So thanks for reading and sharing your opinions, as well!

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  33. Red Balloon says

    I’m just gonna address some points:

    1. I like how the new Olivia, Altivia, Astrid and Kennedy… I mean Lincoln, are being set up. I even buy the “over the top” sassy Altiv; the “super-straight” Olive; although I would’ve like an “Extreme Clumsy” new Astrid just for fun :P
    2. Wish for more Walter scripts because until now, I don’t like this Walter, it’s depressing.
    3. I don’t think they are going back to the original time line.
    4. Maybe I understand how they’re playing Peter (first ep. was only a glimpse, second ep. was only a voice, third ep. is going to be a full reflection and maybe even have a conversation?, four ep. he’s coming back in full).
    5. Ok with the changes, but not the need to point them out that much.
    6. I miss Gene and Nina!, not in the same category I now!
    7. I think it will all come back to the beginning, back when Olive and Peter were children (hopefully more flashback episodes).
    8. The more procedural the episodes, the more positive I’m about the show getting a fifth season. :)

    I’m being patient with this new story, because after three seasons, I don’t see it as a waist of anything at all; everything happened and that’s how I know the choices each character would’ve taken if things were different (thank the writers for that). As they are now, I’m all up for it, if they don’t come back to were things were before. Just hoping we have the time to continue and finish in this new time line with a fresh and excellent storytelling closure.

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  34. mlj102 says

    “I thought that they might have gone the “it powered itself” route, but last night’s episode quashed that idea when Walter discussed how Walternate activated the machine”

    That doesn’t mean that Walternate or anyone else got in the machine and powered it. All it means is that Walternate built the machine, and once all the pieces were together, it powered up, thus resulting in the statement that Walternate activated the machine because he built it over there. We know that Peter activated the machine, but from their perspective without Peter, they would see it as the machine must have activated once it was fully assembled.

    “Now, for this timeline, Peter would have had to exist at some point to create the bridge.”

    Peter did exist — up until the very moment the bridge was created. Then he ceased to exist, causing this new timeline. He existed long enough to create the bridge. The bridge exists in this timeline because Peter created it. Then he ceased to exist. The consequence of what he did still exists even though he ceased to exist, because it was that very action that caused him to no longer exist. If he didn’t create the bridge, then he wouldn’t have stopped existing. They don’t know that the bridge exists because of Peter. It’s one of those things they don’t fully understand all the factors at work. From their perspective, the bridge was created when the machine was activated. But Peter was ultimately still the one responsible.

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    • mlj102 says

      Oops, sorry about that. This comment was supposed to be in response to the discussion further up in the comments about how the supposed plot hole paradox that the machine couldn’t have been activated if Peter didn’t exist.

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      • Dylan says

        Don’t fret, I still found it. Mind you, it definitely was surprising finding it all the way down here…

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    • Dylan says

      “Peter did exist — up until the very moment the bridge was created. Then he ceased to exist, causing this new timeline. He existed long enough to create the bridge. The bridge exists in this timeline because Peter created it. Then he ceased to exist. The consequence of what he did still exists even though he ceased to exist, because it was that very action that caused him to no longer exist. If he didn’t create the bridge, then he wouldn’t have stopped existing. They don’t know that the bridge exists because of Peter. It’s one of those things they don’t fully understand all the factors at work. From their perspective, the bridge was created when the machine was activated. But Peter was ultimately still the one responsible.”

      ah…I now see why we aren’t understanding each other here. Creating the bridge is not why Peter ceased to exist.

      The reason Peter ceased to exist is because he had seen the future, and the Peter that had returned (consciously) was the Peter of that future/enlightened-Peter. However, because he was aware of how things were going to be, that future was going to be changed – but, that’s where he’s from, and so changing that future immediately cancels out his conscious-existence, and therefore his existence altogether (this is all according to the producers though, not me – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8YOWK7SClQ&feature=player_embedded#! it starts at about the 2.00 mark).

      Now, going on what you perceived, the fundamental issue is that in this new timeline Peter either never existed or he died as a child. That is why things such as Olivia’s dealings with her stepfather have been changed.

      Peter bridging the universes occurred in a completely different timeline.

      What you have said doesn’t really make sense. This is only because, if Peter had really existed up until the moment the bridge was created in this timeline, then nothing before that moment would have been changed (such as the aforementioned Olivia/Olivia’s stepfather change). But because things were, that meant that he did not exist before this bridge was supposed to have been made. Therefore, he must have had to exist in order for the bridge to be there.

      This issue wouldn’t be around if the bridge was just something that had always existed in this timeline, but because it’s new – and because it’s a consequence of the machines (which can only be used by Peter), none of it makes sense.

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    • Real1 says

      Peter : I’ve turned holes in both universes and it’s lead here to this room a bridge so we can start to fix ….. . that’s what Peter did say in s3ep22 .

      Walter : we don’t know that the 2 sides were linked if one dies the other one will die too .

      So , I think that the bridge was already there , Peter didn’t created but he discovered , hence that Walter said both sides were linked , how possibly that Walter knows about “linked” if it not from the bridge ? , and Peter said he turned .. he didn’t say i build …, what Peter did is he opened the door way between both sides in order to fix the damage , it wasn’t a solution to heal the red side but it was a solution to not damage the fabric between both sides .

      So yes the BBM can be activated without Peter , but the best question is who’s going to operate it ? , in this new time line they knew that BBM created the bridge and it was activated .. maybe it was activated by the piece which AltOlivia stole from the blue side , and this piece was as in case that red Peter isn’t exist the blue side can activate the BBM to protect themselves . another question is : where the 2ed BBM did go ? and if Walternat build his BBM and there is only one BBM .. why there is the pieces of BBM in blue side ?

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  35. AriC says

    LOVED this episode, I think John McClennan was FANTASTIC, almost made me cry!! he was sooo believabable and touching. I like the idea of someone having a lasting effect in one’s soul even if you cant remember them, i think its a theme that resonates of peter’s temporary dissapearance. I also loved that in this version Olivia kille dher step-dad; how even more so badass of her!!

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  36. Mike Mike says

    I read all of the points and I think you all make good points. I hate the way the show it going, there are too many details that have to be “rewritten” when you take Peter out of the equation.

    I also think that what they’ve done this season totally underminds what they did last year. It’s like getting a do over.

    I hope that it gets better.

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  37. says

    Love Walter’s Kennedy (Lincoln) mistake. But i think he is too bright, too brilliant and too Clark Kent for me. If you see Lincolnate, that´s more of a Fringe division guy to me. Action packed, went in deep, has suffered damage (burned like a crisp), and so on.

    I like the alternate version better storywise and characterwise, IMHO.

    Anyway, this was Fringe at it’s best. The story was awesome (dillemma, double character for the episode, mixing of the universes), everything felt like a real top of the bill Fringe episode. I for one loved it.

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