2.22 Over There – Part 2


THE UNIVERSES MAY NEVER BE THE SAME WHEN SACRIFICES ARE MADE IN PART TWO OF “FRINGE” SEASON FINALE. THURSDAY, MAY 20, ON FOX

Leonard Nimoy Guest-Stars

In the second part of the two-part season finale, sacrifices will be made and both universes may never be the same again after Walter and Olivia visit the “other side” in the “Over There, Part 2” season finale episode of FRINGE airing Thursday, May 20 (9:00-10:00 PM ET/PT) on FOX. (FR 2.22) (TV-14 L, V)

Cast: Anna Torv as Olivia Dunham; Joshua Jackson as Peter Bishop; John Noble as Walter Bishop; Lance Reddick as Phillip Broyles; Blair Brown as Nina Sharp; Jasika Nicole as Astrid Farnsworth

Guest Cast: Leonard Nimoy as William Bell.

Over There – Part 2 Promo:

2.22 "Over There - Part 2" Episode Rating

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  1. LMH says

    OMG that did not play out at all like I imagined. WOW. I figured out the twist right away but still, WOW. Walternate–a Walter without the humanized experiences, etc. of our Walter–bent on revenge, is absolutely terrifying. I am so scared for you know who and can’t wait an entire summer to find out! NO!!!! We get happiness, hope and HOLY S*** all at once (typical)! It’s the you know who situation all over again, wolf in sheep’s clothing. This episode certainly surprised me and defied many of the images I had in my head of how certain things would play out. Love being wrong, it’s much more fun that way.

    Need to jump back in line for a second ride!

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  2. natsfan7 says

    The episode was pretty good…..but I was hoping for more resolution…..or at least a face to face meeting between the two Walters…..but I guess they have to hold back some for next season ;)

    7/10

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  3. jinx1764 says

    I have so much to process right now. We predicted it when “she” woke Dr. Bell up and we were right, argh! I also guess this captivity is what really unlocks Olivia’s abilities, especially once Peter figures it out and rescues her. Walternate is gonna have some shit to answer for when he finds Olivia either catatonic or insane!

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  4. Fringefan1991 says

    This was an amazing episode. An the cliffhanger was simply stunning. When the show runners said that the first half of the third season would take part in the other universe they were not lying. Now our beloved fringe team has a reason to have to go over once again. Maybe this time they will bring their own army. What intrigued me was Bell’s statement to Peter about how he was in such good condition. Once again we see a hint of Peter’s specialness without actually getting any answers. I suppose that is for the next season. If I could hazer a guess I would say it has something to do with magnetism. It was good to see Peter acknowledge that things were going to be difficult between him and Walter. I hope that the fringe team discovers the deception rather quickly.

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    • Page 48 says

      “I hope that the fringe team discovers the deception rather quickly.”

      You mean faster than they caught onto the thermometer-eating, shapeshifting Charlie?

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      • rosull says

        Yeah I think we are going to be enjoying this story arc for a few episodes of Season. Just guessing…

        You’d think there would be tell tale signs that would jump out.

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      • Fringefan1991 says

        Yeah. I just think that the dynamic has changed between Peter and Olivia so much that he has to catch on. Also, when she starts acting weird Walter, Peter, and even Broyles need to dig deeper. Besides she has a tattoo and our Olivia always wears her hair up. It will be noticed unless it is speedily removed. I suppose that Altivia would probably be good at infiltration though so the deception will probably last for awhile.

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  5. MRG says

    That was AMAZING!!!! I may be the only one who didn’t see the ending coming, but I gotta say, I didn’t see it coming. I am in so shock right now, I don’t even know what to say.

    The one thing I will say is, that Anna Torv’s performance was Brilliant!!!! The differences between the two Olivia’s was so nuanced and subtle, the look in her eyes, the timbre of her voice, the way she stood…..when was the last time one of these shows didn’t have to use a more obvious device to tell the doubles apart?

    I can’t wait for the discussions to begin. :)

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  6. Inter-dimensional Dave says

    I knew I shouldn’t have checked Red Sox score I missed the “switch”. 9 out of ten and a very long summer.

    BTW, I guess the Transamerica building is in New York because San Francisco is under water!

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    • LMH says

      Yes, I LOVED the detail of the Transamerica building. My sister was like ‘what’s wrong with you.’ Very cool detail OK!

      LONG LONG Summer. Walter says, “The agony!” ; )
      I want to go rescue her myself! Love her to death and seeing Walternate look at her the way he did is killing me. The agony will make the premiere even more exciting. Is it September yet? If I see a bald dude I’m going to tackle him for information!

      The acting was absolutely wonderful.
      All the shippers (I will admit myself in this) went “WHAT?! YES!!!!! OH, OH NOOOOOO!” Nicely done writers. Just keep throwing more obstacles in there, we’ll wait and enjoy for some good drama. While it still seemed like a “not yet” moment, it works with the fact that now we have a Charlie situation but this time Peter might be the main target of deception by someone he thinks he can trust (no matter how shaken that trust might be).

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    • Cindy says

      The switch was hard to spot.
      I think it happened when Alt – Broyles and Olivia received instructions through there headsets from the The Secretary. Then Olivia positioned herself behind Bell and our Olivia. She fires a weapon. When Bell wakes up, that of the other Olivia that helped him up.
      Not much time would have passed. But she did have time to switch clothes with our Olivia.

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  7. pugui says

    Um…

    I’m gonna need some time to process. I’ll come back when my brain stops hurting.

    *lays down for a while*

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  8. Audrey says

    i knew it! when they transported back to the regular universe, i knew from the moment that alter-Olivia said, “Are you alright, Doctor Bell?” I knew that the real Olivia would NOT say that, she would say ‘William Bell’.

    The Olivia/Peter kiss was amazing. we all waited for that moment. i loved it! but now if Peter wants to tell Olivia something or if he wants to kiss her, it won’t be the one he knows and loves. oh, poor Peter. Peter and Olivia are slowly getting closer. we all knew this was BOUND to happen sometime, and we’re GLAD! thank you wonderful producers for incorporating that beautiful detail. we all enjoyed it.

    but there is a problem. WE ALL HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL FALL COMES AND WE CAN ALL CONTINUE OUR “HOBBY/OBSSESION” WHEN THE NEW SEASON STARTS! WE ARE DOOMED TO A FRINGE-LESS WORLD! NOO! :(

    overall, this episode is my number one. it qualifies. this episode is definitely memorable.

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    • Arun says

      “Are you alright, Doctor Bell?” I knew that the real Olivia would NOT say that, she would say ‘William Bell’.

      I thought that too, you’d also probably say someone’s first name if they were knocked out cold, but seconds earlier, Olivia shouts “Doctor Bell, get down!”. So it was probably prudent for Altlivia to just copy what she said.

      Poor Liv. I hope that smug Walternate goes to smirk at her lots so she can get a chance to fire him up with her Cortexipowers. >:D

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  9. Mike Obie says

    Hey all the typewriter at the end of the episode spelled out “ORDERS ARE”
    (with out the caps of course!)….
    PS is it September yet?

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  10. Pam says

    WOW! That was one amazing finale! And, so emotional too! Peter and Olivia kissed and they had to come apart immediately. I did not like it that Peter agreed to come back to our world without much issues – and also not much depth of emotion between Walter & Peter either. I find it hard to believe that Peter would want to try to work things out with Walter so soon and also agree to leave his mother that easily!

    BTW, what does the glyphs code mean? “Weiss”???

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    • Mike Obie says

      Weiss as in Sam Weiss from the bowling alley. I did not see the Observer….but i think i may have broken my DVR trying to figure out what the typewriter said though. Maybe they will throw us a few hints over the summer??

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      • yvaine says

        Maybe Sam Weiss will be the key to alerting Walter and Co. about the switch? Or maybe he is hiding some sort of power that will help them?

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    • annon says

      I haven’t seen this episode yet, but your comments have verified my suspicions about how the writers, write for Peter. Peter is used as a plot device, they change Peter, his actions and emotions, to fit the story that they are telling at the time. If they need Peter to go to the other side, then they do it, without being true to what we see of him being/feeling in season 2. So, now they need Peter to go back to our side, storywise, so they just write him to agree to come back, fairly easily, and this after he has just been united with this real parents and home. Don’t like that at all. As, I’ve said before, the writers just have no consistency with this character.

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      • Jay5ive says

        Watch the episode. It was amazing and the reason why he decided to go back over was very profound.

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      • Maggie says

        I thought he would go back because our world IS his world (and because of Olivia—though I did not see it playing out the way it did. At all.). I mean, sure, he isn’t from here and obviously, there are issues with why has here. But, he grew up in our world. It’s the only world he really knows/remembers…and despite his issues with Walter, he has made connections with people here and he cares about them. I think he wouldn’t have any qualms with going back two years ago–before the creation of the ‘weird little family unit’. But now, well, yeah…like I said, I expected it from Peter.

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    • fedorafadares says

      My thoughts about WEISS are a little different, though Sam is what came to mind first.

      I think a more relevant connection is to that German prison Mr. Jones teleported out of — it was called WEISSen-something-in-German Prison, I think.

      When Mr. Jones (who called Olivia “my girl” rather creepily) escaped, he scorched his cell just like young Olivia did in that videotape from Jacksonville. Maybe she’s his girl because they share a power?

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      • FinChase says

        THAT’S a wonderfully creepy thought! I had actually specualated that Olivia might be a human teleporter (we never did find out what happened to “Brenner”) because of that similar scorching. You’re not suggested they are actually father and daughter, are you?

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        • SF says

          Oh I never thought of that, but that would make sense, why he knows about her, why he called her “his girl” (and it is very creepy how he says it)…..oh, what if Jones was her uncle? with the kayak from the Pilot?

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          • FinChase says

            Oh, I like that idea! I still really want them to explain that kayak! It would be great if Jones was the uncle. Still, if Olivia remembered the kayak, it seems like she should remember the uncle also.

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            • SF says

              She can’t remember her Jacksonville years yet! So I don’t think it’s too hard she would have forgotten an uncle,even with her memory, especially if he’s the one who enrolled her in the experiments too.

              Which brings me to her mother – Olivia asked what was she like? We know she’s dead, just not when she died. Is anyone else beginning to think that Olivia raised Rachel on her own?

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              • mlj102 says

                I think if she knows enough to remember that the Kayak belonged to her uncle, then she would remember enough to know who the uncle is. I think she made it clear that she remembers everything in her life, even things from when she was a child. But the exception is that she doesn’t remember anything about the Cortexiphan Trials or the daycare center in Jacksonville. I don’t think there’s any reason to think she wouldn’t know her uncle.

                As for the connection with Jones, it’s possible, but I think it’s very unlikely. The prison, by the way, is called Wissenschaft — no “e”…

                As for her mother, I think Olivia was asking more along the lines of what is she like now. I get the impression that she has been dead for quite sometime, so it makes sense that she would be curious about what her mother would be like if she was still alive. I don’t think Olivia could have raised Rachel because I think they’re too close in age. They can’t be more than… what, five years apart? There’s no way Olivia would have been old enough to raise Rachel. I agree that their mother has likely been dead for quite some time, and I agree that Olivia and Rachel rely heavily on each other, and Olivia likely influenced Rachel a lot when they were growing up and after their mother died, but I think it’s taking it a bit too far to think Olivia could have “raised” Rachel on her own.

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                • SF says

                  mlj102, I didn’t think that Olivia raised Rachel on her own literally – but certainly Rachel looks to Olivia for guidance and has always said she was the strong one. What does she say in this episode, her mother has been dead for a while? So I agree with you, Rachel looks up to her – but I would guess that Olivia always was the one Rachel looked up to, because Olivia had to protect their mother too. In dysfunctional families often the eldest sibling takes on the nurturing role. However, rereading my original emark I can see that certainly doesn’t come across! You make good points and I do agree, their mother was alive until Olivia was at least in her late teens. At that point she could raise Rachel on their own if she had to. It makes for an interesting further insight into Olivia’s past because other than Jacksonville, going to the movies with her mother when she was 6, and shooting her stepdad at age 9, we don’t know much about Olivia’s childhood and what happened to her mother and father, until tonight.

                  While I think it would be very cool if Jones was her uncle, it was speculation only – there has to be some way he found out about the cortexiphan trials, and Nina has never volunteered that info if she knows. So his ‘you passed’ and – ‘what was written shall come to pass ‘- roll through to season 3. The ghost of Jones lives on, even if we don’t meet Alt-Jones yet. Why is her uncle’s kayak important to Olivia? Who is her uncle? are questions I’m always looking for the answers to!

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    • rosull says

      I’m trying to find him too. If he’s there, he’s very well hidden. Surely they wouldn’t leave him out…

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      • Dan says

        The Observer can be seen in KFC as walter startes to talk about the chicken being the same. look behind olivia

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  11. Pam says

    Oh Yeah…..Sam Weiss! I wonder what that means for us now – maybe he will be the one to figure out that Olivia is lost??

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  12. Count Screwloose says

    Just awful and a terrible disappointment. The most predictable ending possible used to set up a virtual rerun of Season Two. If they have to repeat themselves this much now, I don’t look forward to where any future seasons are going. Enough.

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    • JustForFun says

      I’m glad i’m not the only one who is disappointed by this ending. This is suppose to be the ‘freakin’ good’ finale ? Well for me i don’t think so… There is some good stuff in this episode but the “kiss scene”, the fight between the two Olivia plus the ending… It was not a Fringe episode no… it was a Buffy the vampire slayer episode ! LOL

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    • Zienie says

      I’m with you on this one. I thought I was the only one. I’ll probably save several episodes before watching any when the season returns. The ending felt like a “here-we-go-again” moment.

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      • mlj102 says

        Seriously? I mean, certainly everyone is entitled to their own opinion, so don’t get me wrong, but that just amazes me that people think the episode was that bad.

        I agree that the ending was rather predictable — I think 90% of people figured out the instant “Olivia” woke up Bell that it wasn’t our Olivia anymore. But I kind of think that was the point and, for me personally, I thought it was a brilliant reveal. I don’t think they were necessarily trying to make us think it was still our Olivia at that point… I think that was supposed to be the shocker moment, and what came after that was just meant to confirm that it really was alternate Olivia. I think that by hinting that it wasn’t our Olivia anymore that early on, they were adding the suspense and the shock factor. I had known that there was supposed to be a big twist at the end, and I had been trying to figure out what that would be. So it was at that moment that I realized what they were doing and it stunned me. Not so much because it was unexpected as it was just the thought that our Olivia was going to be stuck over there while they thought they had the real Olivia with them, and what that means.

        And even if you don’t like the story of this finale, can you really deny the quality of the episode? The acting was truly incredible — particularly Anna Torv and John Noble, though everyone was amazing. Seriously, it just doesn’t get any better than that. In addition, the production value seemed very strong and very well done. I thought there were so many wonderful things about this episode and how it was put together.

        I disagree with the opinion that this is simply setting up for a repeat of Season 2 and what we had with Charlie. I think there is so much they can do with this. For one, with Charlie, our Charlie was killed and we were only dealing with shapeshifter Charlie who couldn’t be trusted. But with this one, not only do we have alternate Olivia who can’t be trusted, but we also have our Olivia still on the other side. What’s going to happen to her? How will they get her back to our side? And I think there is so much potential for character growth. In theory, we will have regular access to seeing what’s going on with both our Olivia and alternate Olivia. That should provide some really great moments for learning more about Olivia’s character as a whole through comparing and contrasting the two. It should also be the same with the Walters. And I think it’s going to be interesting to see how alternate Olivia responds to things. Her current opinion on our side is pretty much a direct result of the twisted things Walternate told her. There seemed to be moments when she was considering that our side may not be the evil people they had been described as. I think it will be neat to explore that and to see if she remains firm in her opinion that those on our side are evil, or if she will gradually shift loyalties. I think this whole development is setting up for a very interesting dynamic next season and lots of great possibilities.

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        • FinChase says

          I totally agree. I always thought either our Olivia would end up impersonating her double and infiltrating on that side, or AltLiv would infiltrate on our side. I didn’t expect to actually see both. No, for me the real shocker was seeing how Olivia was being held, and the state she was in. The way Walternate stared at her, like an animal in a zoo exhibit, was one of the most chilling things I’ve ever seen. He was so cold and remorseless. It occurred to me then, that he wasn’t lying when he told AltLiv that Olivia and Walter were “monsters in our skin.” He wasn’t lying because he really believes that. that

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        • JustForFun says

          “Seriously? I mean, certainly everyone is entitled to their own opinion, so don’t get me wrong, but that just amazes me that people think the episode was that bad.”

          I didn’t say this episode is bad, there is some good stuff in : the scenes with William Bell and Walter are great, really good actors. But i was expecting something else for the finale and certainly not this Olivia switch ending thing. I mean it’s so cliché, so easy.

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  13. Peter Venlet says

    weiss is German for White

    I thought Peters question to Walternate about the map asking “What does all the red mean” Walternate replied that those were quaratined areas. Alternate Oliva is the only character that wears red … is there a link there?

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    • LMH says

      The “What does all the red mean” line was golden. Huge nod to all those who’ve been pointing out red all this time. I really enjoyed that. I love it when the writers give those great winks to fans who pay close attention.

      It’s been speculated that red represents the alternate universe, blue ours. Also it has some connection to Olivia (red balloon, Sam Weiss’ instruction to collect cards from everyone wearing red, etc., been seen throughout the series).

      BTW I’m glad the conflict wasn’t “wrapped up” in any real way as that would have ruined the momentum. Something this massive cannot be solved so quickly and I had a feeling Walternate could not possibly succeed in hooking up Peter to the Wave Sink and ending it all in one episode. Instead of real confrontation yet, let’s throw another wrench in the process: You steal my son again, I steal your beloved friend and most precious creation. I fear for Ella, how convenient Bolivia was able to learn her name. Oh season 3…

      Sam Weiss I must learn more about your extremely intriguing character. If that is the glyph than that is a juicy/mysterious one. And we still have Peter’s abilities nice a vague at this point, as well as the extent of Olivia’s possible talents. These writers are darn good at stringing us along without making me bore of it all.

      How about the big season 3 clue? I’ll be looking for that tomorrow.

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      • Count Screwloose says

        “Instead of real confrontation yet, let’s throw another wrench in the process: You steal my son again, I steal your beloved friend and most precious creation.”

        You almost make me like the ending. Almost. ;)

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      • Zee says

        Oh, I didn’t catch that one about the red.
        But I did wonder if the writers were sending viewers a message with Peter’s line to Walternate that was something like “I don’t know what you’ve heard about me, but I can’t bend the laws of physics”. I think the writers have given us too many clues that Peter has some sort of paranormal ability to be now denying it – after all, he is pictured as part of the weapon. So were they just showing us how naive Peter was to his purpose, or is his ability more emotive?

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    • Zee says

      Oh, I didn’t catch that one…
      But I did wonder if the writers were sending viewers a message with Peter’s line to Walternate that was something like “I don’t know what you’ve heard about me, but I can’t bend the laws of physics”. I wondered if this means Peter has an ability, but it isn’t a physical one – more of an emotive one.
      ??

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  14. Jacksonheights says

    Weiss is Sam Weiss the bowling guy that Olivia came to when she returned from meeting Bell in the alternate world which was the cliff hanger from last season. He helped heal her.

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  15. Jacksonheights says

    The answers seemed a bit simplistic, once Peter discovered Walternates treachery about the device wouldn’t he have left the apartment and confronted either Walternate or his mom. The Peter we know would have made a plan.

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    • rosull says

      Who knows, maybe that was what he was doing at the apartment. Could be why he was so willing to come back Over Here so easily. Great things to ponder till Fall.

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    • jacksonheights says

      Ok makes sense. Peter did say he liked alt-Olivia’s red hair better. Maybe he would have just up and left.

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    • Catherine says

      His plan, apparently, is to get the heck away from the powerful Walternate and a universe in which he is totally lost, back to a familiar universe full of his “weird connections.” He has our Fringe division and Massive Dynamic at his beck and call back here. And, I suspect that he brought back parts of that “machine” in his pocket. He can use the “distance” to figure out the mystery of that machine and think about what he wants to do about it.

      Anyway, that’s where the writers seem to be going with it.

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  16. says

    Does anyone else think that Olivia will be able to get her self out of that room she is locked away in. She looked scared, which is not something normal for her. Her powers are stronger with fear, so she should be able to harness her powers in some way to get out of that room, then back to the other side.

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    • LMH says

      Set that thing on fire Liv! But we don’t know if she really can do it alone, and how much has been taken out of her. Plus I assume that knowing what she is and having the technology he does, Walternate will find a way to control her ability, to pacify her. Maybe.

      OR maybe “What we wake up can’t be put back to sleep.”

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    • Bishop Takes Queen says

      Maybe they have her locked away, in an attempt to trigger her abilities? They seem to be purposely locking her away in the dark room to trigger her fear. Perhaps Bell told them all about the experiments with Olivia? So, without Peter, maybe Walternate is trying to use Olivia as a power supply? Or just holding her as bait to draw Peter back over?

      Anyway, I don’t know how they’ll pass off Altlivia as Olivia. That’s just too much of a suspension of disbelief. I mean, it’s one thing to pull off an impersonation for an hour or two, but Altlivia’s done a full-fledged invasion. She’s the center of the Fringe team, and the focal point for numerous characters. Unless the writers pull some sort of trick out of their bag, like doing a quick futuristic-gadget scan of unconscious Olivia to interpret her mannerisms, etc. Or interrogating the Olivia on the other side and streaming info about her to Altlivia. Who knows.

      Damn, what a cliffhanger though. Wow.

      Walternate is one cruel mofo. Haha.

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      • Maggie says

        yes…AltOlivia IS going to have to start drinking. I find this to be amusing. I think this could be one of thoes situation where somthing notices somthing isnt quite right.

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        • yvaine says

          See, if Altlivia won’t drink, who’s Sam Weiss gonna drink with now? He’ll figure it out: she’s not who she says she is! LOL

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    • Maggie says

      Im thinking somthing along thoes lines. She looked terrified and sorta ‘broken’. (I am wondering if after this she will have a better understanding of Walter after he got outta S.Claires). But I also think it might take her a little while before she accepts that she has the ability and trys…yakno? I get the impression that she really doesnt think she can do much at all, and even then she only sorta embraces it–just enough to save other people.

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  17. Jay5ive says

    Best ending to a season I’ve ever seen in a TV show. However, I knew right away that was the other Olive Loaf. :( Just when she tells Peter how she really feels she gets locked in purgatory by Walternate.

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  18. Page 48 says

    That Altlivia was going to come back “home” with the Bishops was pretty well telegraphed, but there’s just no way that she should be able to assume Olivia’s life and fool anyone for more than 30 seconds. It was beyond credible that shapeshifter Charlie got away with his identity theft for as long as he did. Can Fringe Division be so gullible as to go for the same head fake twice? Fool me once, shame on you, etc….

    First time Peter suggests a night of heavy drinking, what’s the tea totalling Altlivia going to do? How long before someone mentions Nina Sharp and she says “who?”. This Charlie-like infiltration thing CAN’T go on for long without getting really old really fast.

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    • LMH says

      Haha. Altivia better learn to like the taste! Or she can really confuse him and say she’s decided to quit. I’m not sure she can pull it off either, though some commonalities between the two versions of Liv came through, they are so different and she does not know/have the experiences that Liv does.

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    • rosull says

      I’m still with you on this. I think that in order to make this plausible someone (anyone!) Should start to realize that something is off. Someone is going to name names, or say something like, “Cortexiphan” and the jig is up.

      Surely the FBI or at least Broyles will require Altlivia to be debriefed. Also, what about Rachel and Ella! I’m just saying it had better not take more than half of S3 Ep1 to figure it out.

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    • LizW65 says

      Yep, that’s what I thought right off the bat. Just as the seven-year-old Peter instinctively knew Walter wasn’t his dad, the seven-year-old Ella will know right away that Olivia isn’t Aunt Liv. Rachel might be a bit more oblivious, though.

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      • FinChase says

        Olivia didn’t mention Rachel’s name to AltLiv. Even Rachel might think it a bit odd if her sister can’t remember her name. Maybe Roco will get his wish, and AltLiv will kill off Rachel.

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        • kittyofdoom says

          Yeah, but Altlivia had a sister, presumably also named Rachel, so that shouldn’t an issue.

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          • FinChase says

            She said her sister died in childbirth, so she might not have been named. However, if she examined all of Olivia’s things, I’m sure somewhere Olivia has a note or reference to her sister by name, so she’ll be able to figure it out. It could just be written on the back of a picture like, “Rachel and Ella at the Grand Canyon”.

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            • kittyofdoom says

              Oh, I think that was in reference to died GIVING birth. As in, birth to Ella. Alt-Olivia made it sound like this was a pretty recent thing. (Well, 7 years recent, if Ella is 7 now.)

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            • FinChase says

              Never mind. I just went back and re-watched that scene. AltLiv said the sister during childbirth. For some reason, when I watched it the first time, I heard that the sister died at birth. So of course the sister would have been named, and it was probably Rachel.

              Strange, it seemed like the two Olivias were making a connection then. Obviously, Olivia felt that they had; it was real for her. But it must not have been real at all for AltLiv.

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              • mlj102 says

                I think the connection was real for alternate Olivia, too. But that single moment isn’t enough to cause her to trust Olivia or let down her guard, especially after all Walternate did to make her view the alternates as evil enemies. But I definitely got the impression that it was a significant moment for both of them.

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                • FinChase says

                  I felt that way too. I really look forward to seeing AltLiv’s interaction with Rachel and Ella. Was she close to her sister? Will she look at Ella and think that that this should have been her niece? Last week we saw what seemed to be a little envy in our Olivia watching AltLiv’s relationships. Will we find that AltLiv also envies some of Olivia’s relationships on our side? Is she open-minded enough to look beyond her prejudices to see that the people in our universe aren’t all “monsters in our skin”, as Walternate told her.

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      • SF says

        Me too, I immediately thought of Ella as most likely to spot that it’s not her aunt. Peter too, he’d better pick up on it quickly – they’re not going to kiss the same way!! really AltLiv is very different from our Liv, I agree that it had better not take more than half of Ep 1 of S3 to figure out the switch.

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        • says

          Let’s not forget that Peter gave Altlivia some important information about Olivia when she asked him. Not that she’ll be able to pull it off for too long but when someone descibes you as “haunted” you can kind of get a pretty good picture of who they are and how they might act. And specifically with Peter, she can be more free seeing as how they have never had an intimate relationship before. Your behavior with someone can change a lot when you move from a friendship relationship to a romantic relationship. I do not in any way think they can pull it off for half the season but I can see them getting away with it for one show. And people never believe kids anyway.

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          • SF says

            I think Peter knows Olivia really well by now. He’s always been able to read her moods, and he’s met altLiv, so I think he’s going to catch on quickly. So will Walter – don’t forget he tested Olivia in the hospital, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he picks it up quickly too. What would be fun would be if they play along with AltLiv, pretending she is our Olivia, all the while feeding her false info and watching her to see what she’s doing over here. I hope if they do this they let us in on this little secret too!!! but I take your point about kids, who is Ella going to get to believe her?

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            • mlj102 says

              But the catch is that they aren’t suspicious of anything. Walter will have no cause to be testing her or to be wondering if he can trust her because, as far as he’s concerned, it is her. So he’s not going to be paying as much attention as he was in the hospital. Same with Peter. He will just assume it’s Olivia — there’s no reason for him to doubt that. That’s not to say that they won’t pick up on subtle differences, but it won’t be as “easy” as if they were actually looking for differences. I don’t think we can be expecting them to pick up on things too quickly because they currently have no reason to be suspecting anything or doubting her.

              I do look forward to seeing how they approach this and how long it takes the team to realize it isn’t our Olivia who came back with them. I hope that, whatever they do, they will keep it believable, because if they do that, I think there are a lot of amazing things they can do with this story. Actually, I know a lot of people have complained that this is recycling the Charlie story, but I see this more as a way of redeeming themselves for not making the most of the Charlie story. I was really excited for all of the possibilities with the Charlie story, so I was disappointed that they actually didn’t do much with that. Hopefully they will make up for that with the switch of the Olivias.

              I like your idea of the team finding out, and only pretending to still think it’s our Olivia. That would be neat, though I think it would be fun if we still thought they thought it was our Olivia, when really they had realized it wasn’t. It would make a good surprise moment for us to realize they hadn’t been so oblivious, after all.

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              • SF says

                I know. And that is a fairly big catch. At the same time, though, they have just come from the other side, and they do both know Olivia so well know that just the way she says the line to Walter in the hospital is enough to convince him it’s here. I can’t see AltLiv ( really hate the moniker Bolivia, partly because it really is a country!)being able to fool them for more than a couple of days unless she goes away on a ‘trip’ or something big comes up that they investigate separately – they are distracted by something. But even then, I wonder. In all the spy novels I’ve read, when there is an infiltration and impersonation of someone planned, it usually takes months of preparation and intimacy with all the mannerisms and history of the person. Now, Alt-Liv does have access to all of Olivia’s papers and whatever files from work are still at her home, plus what she finds at work, so she will know some things. It’s her mannerisms, the hair for instance – Olivia always wears her hair outside her clothes, and AltLiv wears her hair covered by her jacket – it’s there in the final scene when she wakes Bell up, that’s how I knew it was her, other than her voice, which is lower and as someone here pointed out, she drops her ‘g’s……anyway, I’m very curious about this: how long can she play Olivia? When will the team catch on? I like my theory of them playing along to see if they can catch on to what AltLIv wants :-) it would be kind of cool, you’re right! I wish there was a way we could place bets on here for how long it takes our side to realize the switch has taken place. We could do another bet or poll on who it is!

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          • Jenn says

            I think she can pull this off better than we’re all giving her credit for. She’s smart and catches on quickly. Minor behavioral changes can be written off as trauma from the other universe, changing her relationship with Peter, or even changing her hair when Ella doesn’t buy it.

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  19. Page 48 says

    Cute that Charlienate has his own alternate “we’re obsolete” conversation with Olivia in the car, similar to that which Charlie had with her in the Pilot. That must have been a serious WTF moment for Olivia.

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    • LMH says

      That conversation was a wonderful piece of continuity from the Pilot, and fit honestly within the situation. Not only are those moments fun to see, but I think they serve the purpose of showing us the commonalities or connections that exist b/w subjects and their alternates. Seeing Charlie was weird for Peter too, but for Olivia, man that must have been SO strange, surreal.
      There were a couple of other lines of dialogue that were reminiscent of past episodes besides this one, but can’t remember right now what other bell’s rang while I was watching.

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    • Jodie says

      Charlienate seems to be the most like his doppelganger. He just doesn’t seem to be as hard and jaded as the others on his side. I’m hopping that he’ll try to connect with Olivia and be able help her.

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      • LizW65 says

        I had a thought about that earlier–if she were to tell him how he could go about curing his “bugs” instead of just keeping them at bay with chemicals, that might go a long way toward getting him on her side.

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        • mlj102 says

          But curing the bugs would require blood from the mother creature and, considering this all happened over a year ago, I imagine they’ve killed it or something similar, so that isn’t a possibility. However, I agree that, if they could do that, it would do a lot to cause Charlie to trust her. I do think it would be neat if alternate Charlie and Olivia could team up and work together, but I imagine that would also be rather difficult. Not only did she hit him over the head, but I imagine Walternate has her locked up rather tightly, so I don’t expect Charlie would have access to her. But, it’s definitely possible!

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          • eveybane says

            Knowing Walter, he’s probably got some extra monster blood stashed in the refrigerator somewhere. xD

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        • Zee says

          Can someone explain this bit about the bugs? I remember the teasing and alt-Charlie saying they weren’t worms, they were arachnids. Is this referencing something else from a prior episode?

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          • mlj102 says

            The way I interpret it, it’s supposed to be a reference to Season 1, Unleashed, when there was the hybrid creature that attacked Charlie and the stinger caused him to be infected with all of the creature’s offspring. Over here, they managed to find a way to kill the creatures so that Charlie didn’t die, but it seems like they’re implying that, over there, Charlie was infected, but instead of finding a way to kill the creatures, they were only able to come up with a way to prevent them from growing. I thought it was a clever piece of continuity.

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            • SF says

              I did too! and I’m so totally grossed out, having arachnophobia. I’m so glad we don’t see them moving in his skin.

              It was a really good way to show at least some of the events in our world are happening over there, and in the same way. Something I had wondered about. So, can anyone tell me what happened at Harvard university a year ago? That would be when Olivia flashed herself over in The Road Not Taken. Was the event the twins blowing up on their side? Did their explosion take out half of Boston? That’s very scary.

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  20. LizW65 says

    Wow, amazing episode, just amazing. So much still to process…
    Was anyone able to read the note that Altlivia’s boyfriend left for her? All I caught was the word “week”, and I was thinking it might be the “major clue” that Wyman and Pinkner talked about.

    Altlivia must have been heavily briefed by Walternate just prior to the big switcheroo, since the day before she didn’t even know about the other universe and all of a sudden she knew how to communicate using the typewriter. Did anyone else get the sense that one of Walternate’s instructions to her was to seduce Peter? In the scene when she drove him to his new apartment and he dismissed her with “thanks for the ride” I thought she looked pretty frustrated, though it may have been my imagination; also, of course, his radar may have gone up when she started pressuring him for details about her counterpart.

    I agree with those who stated that Olivia should be able to Star Trek herself out of that cell, especially since her abilities are triggered by fear–whether she makes that leap or not remains to be seen, but it would be kind of fun to see her reduce the Alt-Fringe offices to a cinder.

    It occurs to me that IF the show had been cancelled, as the writers seemed to have been anticipating, all they would have had to do was change the last couple of scenes to give the whole thing a happy, sort-of-wrapup. I wonder if they actually wrote an alternate ending against that eventuality?

    Oh, and Bell’s cryptic remark to Peter about how well he’d held up–what to make of that? Somehow I don’t think he was talking about the effects of crossing over (I believe Peter is one of the “handful” of people he mentioned in the season opener who can cross over without any harm) so he may have known about something that Walternate did to Peter before he was kidnapped.

    It’s gonna be a long, lonely summer…

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    • FinChase says

      The note said “Remember to eat. See you in a week, Love, F

      Apparently, AltLiv also forgets to eat just like Olivia. Peter’s always telling Olivia she needs to eat something.

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  21. 7063keisha says

    man i thought that the ending was gonna be a good happy ending, BUT i still wasnt sure if it was alternate olivia or normal olivia who returned to our universe, i was freakin out, becuz i was trying to figure out if its alter-livia or just olivia. Well the olivia and peter kiss scene was absolutley fantastic, since its wat we’ve all been waiting for. that was funny when olivia just knocks alternate charlie out, and quickly tells peter that it was her and peter was just “thanks, i just figured that out”

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  22. Con says

    I think Peter/Ella/Sam/someone will realize it’s Altlivia pretty quickly, and the focus of next season will shift to how to get Olivia back (possibly with Altlivia’s help, once she realizes that the people in this world aren’t the “monsters” Walternate described them as).

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  23. Liv says

    So…Does Altlivia a shape-shifter as well? Maybe everyone on the Alt-universe is not real human! That kinda explains what that “First People” imply in the red-colored intro. Peter is the only one who could power the engine since he’s a real human just like everyone else in our universe. Just a quick thought, Walter mentioned the “disease” Peter got when he was a little boy was genetic and unknown, could be a genetic mutation that had transformed him to human beings with emotion?

    Did anyone else notice the guy in the store where Altlivia asked for the old model type writer is Sam? He looks familiar, isn’t he?

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  24. Elaine says

    Now, if that isn’t a total pimp move Olivia pulled off rescuing Peter, I don’t know my player moves. Home girl skipped universes to deliver that line, lay a kiss on him and get her man! And I’m not even really a shipper of the two, but I have to give props where they’re due.

    What an amazing finale and cliffhanger. My only quip is I wish the scenes between Walter and Bell had been a little more revealing about their pasts…and what led up to them testing out Cortexiphan on children years before Walter kidnapped Peter from the alt/verse.

    So much to process, and I have yet to watch the additional scene on the FOX site. All in all…A+ writers.

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    • Tom17 says

      I was disappointed (a bit) like you with the walter/bell scenes but I their interaction had me laughing a lot, they’re EXACTLY like my great-uncle and his old lab partner (whom I shall now call Bell & Bishop). In other words both actors nailed that one!.

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  25. Domokun says

    Anyone else catch the chalkboard in the alt-Havard lab when Bell and Walter first walked in? It said A demon’s twist rusts. I immediately though anagram but seeing as how I suck at that kinda thing I was wondering if anyone else had thoughts on what it might mean?

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  26. Pam says

    People in the forum have been saying that the Anagram for Demon’s twist rusts is Don’t trust Sam Weiss. It could also be other things that we haven’t figured out yet.

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    • LMH says

      Very interesting. I tried working it out myself and all the letters fit, which sucks since I really like Sam. Sam is tied in with Nina, and we know not to ever truly trust her (which has always been a part of Fringe but reminded of in Brown Betty), so should be good plot line for next season.

      The fact that Sam used an anagram to help Olivia with Charlie’s death is all the more appropriate now and adds further support to the idea that the anagram clue here is about Sam.

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    • Jodie says

      Oh. That’s just too creepy. I never trusted him. I just think that Nina Sharp is so evil, and I felt that Olivia just trusted him too quickly.

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      • LizW65 says

        On the other hand, since the note not to trust him was in the other universe, that could mean our world CAN trust him. Maybe Alterweiss is a double agent working for Our Side?

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  27. Erik says

    That strange machine’s power supply was attuned to Peter’s DNA.
    I think the alternate universe has time travel within its universe.
    That would explain the Olivia switch at just the right moment and the
    extensive training that Alivia needed to infiltate our universe. Not to
    mention the existence of the strange machine made in the late 1800’s that
    is keyed to Peter’s DNA along with the “yellow-aged inked diagram” that
    showed Peter’s eyeless face that the Watchers gave Olivia at the bar.

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  28. FinChase says

    Maybe Sam Weiss is one of the First People. He certainly seems to have some special abilities, and he’s a lot older than he looks.

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    • Bishop Takes Queen says

      Interesting idea, FinChase. Perhaps Weiss is one of the “first people?” But then what are these first people? Ones that actually discovered inter-dimensional travel a LONG time before Walter & Bell? Perhaps they are another strange breed of “people” like the Observers? (Are the Observers aliens of sorts – just here to observe mankind?)

      And what’s the deal with Altlivia and her boyfriend having tattoos? Are their marks indicative of some sort of time/universe-travelers? In Part 1, Altliv’s b/f mentioned he’d be gone for a “week.” Are they travelers who bounce between realities with normal physiology as opposed to the techno-organic shape-shifters? Like, they are experiments from the other side who are still trying to figure out if they’re able to safely travel to/from?

      Newton is a shape-shifter (in Grey Matters when his head is re-attaching, the silver blood flows back into his body), but maybe the shape-shifters were the earliest means of inter-dimensional traveling, but since then the other side has begun to perfect travel by “manufactured” humans – marked by their tattoos?

      Will Altliv team up with Newton now?

      Ugh – so many questions. Anyway, I guess Peter will now need to “find the crack” to go and get his Liv back. Oh yeah, the comment made by Bell to Peter…what was that about? Maybe Peter actually does have a special heart that is working better than it was supposed to, since Bell deemed him to appear better than he would have thought…

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    • SF says

      I don’t think that’s our Sam Weiss in the typewriter store, I think that’s the alternate Sam Weiss! Unless the dude never sleeps, because he runs the bowling alley all night and the typewriter shop in the day! It was good to see him again, lovely continuity. He’s not looking so good either. Wonder if he can’t go back? How long he has to stay there, what his original mission was? But the sound of his voice and his eyes, he certainly looks like a very old alternate Weiss. Now he could be Yoda he’s so ancient, ‘i”m older than I look”, but what that has to do with our Sam, I have no clue.

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      • mlj102 says

        I don’t know… I definitely see the resemblance, but I’m not completely convinced that they’re supposed to be the same guy, only alternates or different in age or whatever. I think it’s just a coincidence that they look alike.

        As far as typewriter store guy goes, I’m very curious about how he got wrapped up in all this. I don’t think he’s from over there… At least that’s not the impression I got, though I suppose it’s a possibility. I wonder if we’ll learn more about him next season…

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  29. Jonathan says

    The chalkboard in Walternate’s lab had a phrase written on it —

    A Demon’s Twist Rusts.

    Anagram anyone?

    I went ahead and worked it out for you — DON’T TRUST SAM WEISS

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    • Alison says

      Gosh! I’ve been trying to figure out what that meant. I just didn’t dwell on it long enough to catch that. Oh man, that sucks! I really liked Sam!! :(

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  30. kittyofdoom says

    Wow, they did a really. Awesome. Job.

    Anna Torv blew me away. She just managed to portray a ‘haunted’ Olivia (very much liked Peter’s description of her) so perfectly. I particularly liked the scene between the two Olivias. Olivia managed to get across this raw-edged desperation. And the kiss! Wow. I am so glad they did it like that.

    And on that note, I really think that Peter’s motivations are believable. I don’t think the writers have done wrong by him (at least, not MUCH) – he doesn’t belong in either universe, so why not follow Olivia? I mean, I might have liked a little more probing into what exactly this machine Walternate wants him to power entails, but realistically, they only have 42 minutes, and the machine may well come into next season. Also I am a shipper. So.

    They totally took me in. My mom was all like, “I don’t think they got the right Olivia.” and I was like, “No no, our Olivia was wearing a red shirt. Alt-Olivia was wearing white. We’re fine.” And then she walked into her apartment. AND I KNEW. GACK. Not to mention Anna Torv at the end – she just did that last scene flawlessly. Did anyone else think Olivia’s posture (sitting and hugging her knees) definitely mirrored her position in the Cortexiphan video?

    I could go on and on. September HURRY UP!

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    • SF says

      “Did anyone else think Olivia’s posture (sitting and hugging her knees) definitely mirrored her position in the Cortexiphan video?”

      Oh good catch, kittyofdoom. I didn’t catch it but I thought, why is that so familiar? No wonder my instant thought after the scene ended was, now she’ll learn how to transport herself to the other world, she has nothing to do in the darkness but focus on her mind and her ability. Ever since that last scene, all I’m feeling is horror at Olivia’s predicament and constant anxiety about how she’s going to survive with her sanity intact, and this is only day one of the Summer hell-hiatus!

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      • kittyofdoom says

        Interesting that you say that about keeping her sanity intact – that was my thought as well. Peter described Olivia as ‘haunted’, and she had this unbelievably sad look on her face for a lot of this finale – she’s already broken! What’s this going to do to her and her sanity and her relationship with Peter? Her relationship with Walter, for that matter, now that she’ll know what his alternate is capable of and what, by extension, he might have been capable of without Bell’s brain surgery? Unbelievably brilliant on the part of the writers to set up next season like this.

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  31. inastateoftexas says

    The portrayals were very well done this week — Altlivia acted more calloused and jocular than our Olivia, Walternate was more restrained, dignified, and oh-so-creepy than Walter, and I was pleasantly surprised by Jackson. I thought he was great in the scene where Altlivia was “interrogating” him — he sounded kind of wistful and got a sincere sounding break in his voice when he said ‘maybe she’s not like you at all.’ Overall, great writing and acting — gotta love Fringe.
    I have to ask though, am I the only one who thinks Altlivia looks like a stripper?

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  32. mlj102 says

    Wow. I couldn’t tell you how many times I said “wow” throughout this episode. There were so many moments that I just wasn’t expecting and that completely caught me off guard, but they were absolutely spectacular! Peter meeting alternate Olivia, Olivia confronting alternate Olivia, Olivia finding herself face to face with alternate Charlie, Olivia finally finding Peter, Walter and Bell working together and arguing over their past, and of course the final switch of the Olivias. Like many others, as soon as I saw “Olivia” waking up William Bell, everything fell into place in my mind and I realized just what they were doing. That is a brilliant, torturesome (is that a word?) cliffhanger!

    I thought it was very interesting to see exactly what happens when they have to quarantine a place — I’d been wondering what exactly a quarantine entails. It’s like what happened on the bus in Ghost Network, except on a much larger scale. I thought that was a fascinating connection to a past episode. So, did the bomb used in Ghost Network come from over there, or had we simply developed the same thing over here?

    And I loved that we saw the effects of the Blight. I thought that was a nice touch and I’m glad they confirmed that certain areas are worse than other areas. I definitely need to go back and watch that scene of Peter’s helicopter trip again, because I think there’s a lot of information provided there.

    I’m actually surprised, having read all the comments up to this point, that I haven’t seen anyone mention Bell and his role in the episode. I loved it. I loved that they showed that, while he did bad things (such as develop the shapeshifter technology), he was doing what had to be done — or what he felt had to be done. In a lot of ways, he’s not so different from Walter. I really thought they did a great job at resolving that storyline, answering questions, and letting him (and Leonard Nimoy) go out in a blaze of glory. I really liked it. I’ve suspected for awhile that Bell wasn’t the evil man that a lot of people have accused him of being, so I liked how they cleared up a lot of his intentions and where his loyalties were. And, just let me add, I laughed so hard when he explained that he equipped Fringe division with the 76 design of weapon, then he shot his weapon and explained that was the 77. I thought that was hilarious.

    Others have mentioned how they don’t think alternate Olivia is going to be able to fool the others for very long. I agree that it shouldn’t take too long for some kind of slip up or for someone to pick up on the fact that she’s not their Olivia. But I also think that she should be able to deceive them for at least awhile. Alternate Olivia interacted with our Olivia, and she asked Peter about our Olivia, so she has at least some idea of how they’re different. She also suspected there was something between Olivia and Peter, so she shouldn’t be too unaware of the recent developments between them. And, I imagine she’s been trained well for undercover operations… The only difference is that, in this instance, she’s pretending to be herself. Plus, we don’t know if Olivia keeps any sort of diary or journal, but alternate Olivia does have access to her house, so I’m sure she’ll be able to learn a lot about Olivia from whatever is there. I’m not saying she’s going to be able to deceive them indefinitely, but I do think she’s going to be able to do it longer than a lot of comments here claim would be possible. We have no idea what her orders are or what she’s supposed to be doing while she’s over here, but I imagine she’ll be able to blend in well enough in order to at least make considerable progress with what she’s supposed to be doing. But yes, I do hope they do a better job with it this time than they did with Charlie. They just didn’t show enough of the Charlie storyline.

    It will be interesting to see where they go with things next season. It could be that we spend the majority of the first few episodes on the other side, in which case we wouldn’t see much of how alternate Olivia is blending in. But I do agree that it shouldn’t take more than a couple of episodes for them to realize it isn’t their Olivia who came back with them. Then the issue is going to be what to do with her? I could see them being able to convince her that our side isn’t all that bad. But Walternate has done a great job at making her think our side is the enemy. She certainly doesn’t trust us. And, as we saw in her interaction with our Olivia, she can be quite deceptive. I think there will be many instances when we wonder if she can be trusted or if she’s working behind our backs for some alternate agenda, even when our side does know who she is.

    I wonder what Walternate’s reason was for sending alternate Olivia over here. It seems they managed to apprehend our Olivia and William Bell. It wouldn’t have been much harder for them to go into the building and get Peter and Walter, as well. But it was like they wanted alternate Olivia to come over to our side for a certain purpose. I’m curious as to why Walternate decided to abandon his plan for the time being and allow Peter and the others to return.

    And what is Walternate going to do with our Olivia? I can’t imagine he’s going to keep her confined like that indefinitely. I’m sure he’s got a plan, though I have no idea what that could be. I wonder how long it will take to get our Olivia back on our side… and what will have to happen to make that possible?

    As for those who claimed that it was “too easy” for Peter to decide he wanted to come back to our side, I disagree. We don’t know exactly what happened when he decided to go over there, but I thought that was the part that made no sense. He made that decision very quickly, and seemingly without hesitation. I just don’t see how he could be so quick to leave behind everything here. But coming back over here made sense. Olivia revealed to him that Walternate was using him and, as was expected, as soon as he realized that, he wanted no part of it. He felt just as betrayed by Walternate as he did by Walter. And he’d had time to realize that he didn’t belong over there. So much was the same, but so much was different, and he felt out of place. And then you add in all that Olivia told him, about why he belonged on our side, and it makes sense. And on top of all that, it’s not like he had a lot of time to think it over. They had to hurry to meet up with Walter and William, so I think he had to make a quick decision, which he did. It made sense to me. I actually felt like we got a lot more emotion out of Peter this episode than we have in the last two or three episodes. And it actually seemed to fit with what was going on. I didn’t have a problem with that.

    Finally, I just have to comment on the fact that Anna Torv was completely amazing in this episode. Yes, she’s always amazing, but this episode was exceptionally amazing. I was so impressed by her ability to portray both Olivias as slightly different. It was even more impressive once the Olivias looked the same because, despite looking identical, I could still recognize the differences — I could see the different tendencies and mannerisms of our Olivia vs. alternate Olivia, so I knew which one it was, even when they looked the same. That’s quite an accomplishment. Especially at the end — she had to act in a way that showed she was alternate Olivia who was pretending to be the original Olivia. That must have been incredibly challenging, and it easily could have been a train wreck, but Anna Torv delivered an outstanding performance every step of the way.

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    • Bailey says

      “but I do think she’s going to be able to do it longer than a lot of comments here claim would be possible.”

      I think you are right, she’ll be able to to pull it off for a while.

      I also hope Peter left some choice words for Walternate on that tape that was running while he investigated the artifact.

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      • Con says

        “So, did the bomb used in Ghost Network come from over there, or had we simply developed the same thing over here?”

        Massive Dynamic developed the technology used in the Ghost Network, right? And Bell and Walter pretty much confirmed in this episode that Massive Dynamic has been stealing ideas and technology from the other side, so it makes sense. I thought it was really cool that they connected this to something so far back too.

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        • bdp says

          I have a feeling it’s going to be a few episodes before they catch on to Altlivia as well. That said I have heard from numerous interviews with the showrunners and stars that the first few episodes of next season will take place on the other side, at least to some degree anyways, so it could mean we’re going to see them catching on to Altliv quick enough or they are just going to balance seeing what Walternate is doing with Olivia and what our team and Altlivia are doing on our side until they figure out who she really is. Either way, even though I saw the twist as many of you did, I think it’s still one hell of a way to go with the next chapter.

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      • SF says

        I’m just about to do my post about my thoughts on this episode, and I was surprised too that no one has said anything about Nimoy’s portrayal of Bell. I loved it! And as one who believed totally that he was evil and to blame for everything, to discover that I liked Bell by the end of the episode – what a turnaround the writers did with him! I loved his scenes with Olivia and Walter, and when he said that incredible line which I love, ‘you taught me Walter, the meaning of we have as many atoms in our bodies as there are stars in the sky”, and then does sacrifice himself, well, I cried. Because I think I could have liked Bell quite easily, grown to care about him as much as I care about Walter. Simply amazing acting by Nimoy, and the writers – fabulous job. I do feel kind of sorry for Nina, who never gets to see him again. Although he might have survived, I don’t think he did.

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        • FinChase says

          One thing that struck me was Bell’s remark to Walter when Olivia leaves: “We’ve accomplished a lot together Walter, but she may be our greatest achievement.” They both look like proud fathers. During “Momentum Deferred”, I was as irritated as Olivia by his attempts to sway her with links back to their past, to play on her emotions. But now I believe it was actually real; he does have genuine feelings for her of a paternal sort.

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    • jacksonheights says

      I wonder what Walternate’s reason was for sending alternate Olivia over here. It seems they managed to apprehend our Olivia and William Bell. It wouldn’t have been much harder for them to go into the building and get Peter and Walter, as well. But it was like they wanted alternate Olivia to come over to our side for a certain purpose. I’m curious as to why Walternate decided to abandon his plan for the time being and allow Peter and the others to return.

      I was thinking about this too and I wondered if Peter has to willingly be hooked up to the machine for it to work.Would kidnapping Olivia be the only way he could accomplish this. Peter is pretty smart and figured out that he was the missing piece to the machine. Since Olivia told him it would destroy our universe he knew that this may be his only course of action. That being said they could have taken them all into custody and achieved the same effect. Could be a plot contrivance.

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    • Jodie says

      “I’ve suspected for awhile that Bell wasn’t the evil man that a lot of people have accused him of being, so I liked how they cleared up a lot of his intentions and where his loyalties were.”

      Really? I guess I learned two things that surprised me about William Bell: 1) He wasn’t the driving force behind this war of worlds. He was responding in like manner to what was happening on the other side. 2) He was braver than I thought. At least his living over on the other side makes sense now because I couldn’t understand how he could get away with squatting like a toad in the Twin Towers like he did for all that time.

      As far as I’m concerned, I’ve learned to stay far away from anyone who lives their life by the motto: “The means justifies the end.” I think that it’s much more important in how you get there. William Bell has still left a trail of broken lives behind him. And speaking of which, are we really supposed to let him off the hook for lobotomizing Walter because Walter asked him to do it? You need to be of sound mind and body in order to have a will written let alone having sections of your brain removed. I guess all I can say is that Willum is just a saint. (That last sentence is dripping with sarcasm.) And your right, William Bell is no different than pre-peternate Walter.

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      • mlj102 says

        Interesting perspective, Jodie. I understand what you mean about avoiding those who claim the ends justify the means, and in many ways I agree. And I don’t deny that Bell has caused a lot of damage. But what choice did he have? He knew this war was coming, he knew Walter damaged the other side by crossing over, and he knew he had to do something. But what could he do? I think he tried to handle things in the best possible way. So I don’t think any situation can be viewed in such absolute terms. Every situation is unique and has to be considered in those terms.

        As for lobotomizing Walter, yes, I let him off the hook for that. We have no reason to think Walter was crazy before the parts of his brain were removed. So I imagine he was in a sound mind when he made the request. Right now, we don’t know enough of the details to know exactly what led up to that taking place, but unless I find out something that shows Bell was being careless or reckless or sinister or anything similar when he did what he did to Walter, then I’m willing to accept that he was trying to help the situation and he was trying to help his friend.

        No, I don’t consider Bell to be a saint. He has made wrong choices and he has negative qualities, just like anyone else. But I think this episode revealed a lot to show that Bell wasn’t a monster or a villain… he wasn’t trying to cause damage, but he was trying to fix it. And, in the end, he was willing to sacrifice himself so that the others could return to our side. That’s got to count for something.

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        • Jodie says

          I don’t mean to dwell on this, the way William Bell decided to end his life did count for something, but let’s remember that he had little choice. He couldn’t cross over and now Walternate knows that he is a spy. I just have to wonder if he couldn’t have spent his time on the other side finding a resistance group to Walternate rather than helping to develop the shape shifters or those deadly guns. And my point about Walter was that Walter wasn’t in any condition to decide that he should be lobotomized. He was found unfit to stand trial. He was unfit. As William said at the end, he didn’t like what Walter was becoming. Bell seems to think that he has the right to make all kinds of decisions that I feel he has no right to make.

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          • SF says

            Jodie, Bell didn’t make that decision – Walter asked him to do it. Just because Walter doesn’t remember asking him, doesn’t mean that Bell didn’t do it out of their friendship and history – and the fear that yes, Walter might not be able to resist using that knowledge to cross over, and so destroying both worlds in the process.

            I’m speaking as someone who had a hate-on for Bell right from the start,and nothing could change that until this episode. Didn’t you find that he was patient with Walter, and put up with Walter’s anger and accusations? I’m not saying Bell was a saint, and like I said elsewhere, I would dearly love to sit down with him and have him explain how they stole ideas from the altworld if they couldn’t cross over, and how MD could use all that stolen technology and medical advances if Bell couldn’t communicate with them. Presumably he brought over much information in his crossings until he had to stop. What I find surprising is that Walternate let him do that. And, you have to admit, Bell wasn’t trying to destroy the alternate world, he was trying to save both worlds if he could. To me, this episode is another one about redemption too, this time of Bell’s character, and the revelation that Walternate is as crazy as Walter ever was, if not completely unhinged. The amazing thing is that Bell does it for Walter. That’s an amazing loyalty and capacity for friendship that Bell showed.

            I don’t know that Bell could find a resistance group over there, because they would have to believe in an alternate world, and unless Bell takes them over and back again, they aren’t going to believe. And why should they, if the disasters are caused our world, resist for a world that is causing it?

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            • Jodie says

              “To me, this episode is another one about redemption too.”

              The only point that I’m trying to press is that Bell can’t find redemption if he feels that he hasn’t done anything wrong. Yes, he was brave in the end, but that one act doesn’t change the person that he is and was. He hasn’t ever given me any indication that he ever regretted anything that he has ever done. What I meant about finding a resistance group refers to fighting the militaristic slant that the government has taken on the other side. It is clear to me that Walternate has pushed for revenge in stead of finding a way to fix the tears in the fabric of their universe. I foresee that our Fringe team will try to find a way for both universes to survive. Yes, I know that Bell was trying to prevent a war, but couldn’t he have done that in a more forceful way by stopping Walternate from coming into power. As Walter keeps pointing out, the way that Bell decided to go ended up lining his own pockets. The finale showed me that Bell wasn’t a traitor, but he did not redeem.

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  33. Jen says

    This was an amazing ending! I can hardly wait for fall. Would someone be so kind as to tell me how the glyph code works?

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    • mlj102 says

      I’m not even sure if you’ll be back and digging through all these comments to see if you ever got an answer to your question, but I feel bad that no one has responded yet, so I figured I’d take a minute to explain, just in case you’re still wondering.

      The glyph code is based on the 8 glyphs (hand, frog, flower, butterfly, etc.). Depending on the glyph and where the yellow dot is, each glyph corresponds to a letter. So if you pay attention to which glyph is shown right before each commercial break, you can decode each glyph to uncover a key word for the episode. I’m still not sure if the words have a more general meaning (if they combine somehow to have a more significant meaning to the overall story) or if they are only significant to the episode they show up in. But whatever the case, it’s fun to discover the word of the week and look for meaning in that.

      I hope that helps!

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      • LizW65 says

        Actually, I responded, but my comment got put “under moderation” and never showed up for some reason–maybe they considered it a spoiler?

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  34. Biz says

    I just hope Alt-Olivia does not jump in the sack with Peter to lull him into complacency. It’s not like he would be able to tell that it doesn’t feel right, since they are just starting out. She is just a red-headed tart! And all the while our heroine is being tortured by Walternate, somebody on the team better get a clue and come to her rescue.

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  35. Cindy says

    We just had a collective WOW! here.
    Olivia must have wanted to say those things to Peter for a long time. How she bottles things up. She doesn’t normally breakdown in front of anyone except people she cares about.
    Alternate Olivia will rat out on Olivia’s true nature to Walternate, unless she can be made to feel something for someone on this…

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  36. says

    First, let me say I am so glad the video on fox.com/Fringe did not make the final cut. Walternate was too much like our Walter and Peter responded to that. it would have been interesting to see Walternate riding in a limo talking w/ Peter, acting like our Walter, until he gets a phone call, and immediately “tuned” Peter out.
    ~~~~

    That being said, this ep. was sooo much better than last week!!!!!!!!

    Olivia kicked Altlivia’s buttocks! I love the fact that even though Olivia held a gun on Altlivia she was curious enough to have a conversation about the differences in their lives. Olivia mentions her sister and niece, while Altlivia is an only child.

    Then she takes Altlivia’s identity and finds Peter. After knocking Charlie unconscious, Olivia shows the piece of paper to Peter, thus revealing Walternate was just using him. Peter had an inkling of what might be going on, but that Olivia tells him the truth seems to solidify what he was thinking. He realized that Walternate really wasn’t his “true” father, even though he biologically was his father.

    But, that wasn’t enough, Olivia kissed Peter! Acknowledging that she needed him! Then it was crystal clear where he was headed — back w/Olivia. This time, it felt right, unlike “Jacksonville”.

    I mean we’ve talked a lot about them “earning it”. I think crossing over to ultimately tell Peter she needed him was “earning it”, definitely. Especially with what she had to do to get to him (which was brilliant). Then Altlivia taking her place and leaving Olivia over on the other side. Now, Peter has to work to get her back.

    I think the lack of emotion in Peter is just because he was in shock. He still is, but acknowledges that Walter risked everything TWICE to save his life. I hope that finding Altlivia impersonated Olivia will shock him into action. He won’t stop then and he will reject the Other Side completely! *cross my fingers*

    Oh, and the moment Bell told Walter that he took out parts of his brain b/c Walter asked him to so he wouldn’t end up being like Walternate. I mean what a sacrifice to make! Olivia was right when she told them a long time ago Walter was a “good man”.

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    • Pam says

      Where exactly does Bell tell Walter that “he took out parts of his brain b/c Walter asked him to so he wouldn’t end up being like Walternate”?? I thought Bell only said “Let the past be past; we don’t have time for this now”. I don’t think he gave any answers.

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      • SF says

        Just as Bell is beginning to glow over the doorholder, he tells Walter that Walter asked him to take the brain parts out, because of the man he was turning into. Quite dramatic, and revealing that Walter has forgotten so much, including that it was at his own request. These writers are so good!!

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    • StrawberryFlavoredDeath says

      Atlivia wasn’t an only child. She told Olivia that her sister died during childbirth.

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  37. Liv says

    Does anyone else other than me notice that the old guy in the typewriter store is Sam Weiss?! Remember Sam ever mentioned to our Olivia that he actually looks older than he is?! Plus the glyph code for the next episode is WEISS, an intriging character to keep an eye on in the next season!!

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    • eveybane says

      He didn’t seem to recognize (Alt)Olivia, and he acted a lot different than the Sam Weiss we know…but I agree, they do look strikingly alike.

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    • StrawberryFlavoredDeath says

      I agree too, the guy did look almost exactly like Sam, albeit a bit older, and he sounded and acted like him too.

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      • LizW65 says

        Dunno if they’re meant to be the same person, but they’re played by different actors: Sam Weiss by Kevin Corrigan and “The Shopkeeper” by Stefan Arngrim.

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  38. says

    OK. Good one. Most of my season 1 questions are answered. But I have one new one. Please let any Fringephile correct me if I’m off base:

    Bell made his fortune selling his versions of Altverse tech on our side. This is the purpose of Massive Dynamic, though Walter had the idea with him.

    The various rogue elements and disgruntled employees of Massive Dynamic of Season One were actually rogue elements,including the misguided cell that took Bell’s manuscript for ZFT, the one that existed minus the ethics chapter, as their manifesto. These were led by Jones, who was trying to impress his boss William, ultimately became unhinged by his lack of appreciation, and then decided to journey to the other side to kill him.

    ZFT was written because Bell and Walter feared the universe they were watching would ultimately invade our own. This is why the Cortexiphan children were experimented on. Peter was abducted in 1985, so that puts 7 years for William and Walter to work together, before Massive Dynamic, Walter’s brain operation, and commital to St. Claire’s.

    We know from old episodes that Walter’s test subjects saw into the other world, and saw a shape shifter at work. Does this mean that Bell was secretly going back and forth already, and helping Walternate? Or does it mean that the tech for shapeshifting was already around in some form and Bell helped perfect it?

    Also, what is there to know about Sam Weiss? I know almost nothing. Are there any facts?

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  39. Azus says

    Great episode, but I have a question.

    The doorway back to our universe was meant to be opened by our Olivia (who has special powers due to cortexiphan, which was subjected to children by our Walter and Bell, to create an “army”), and powered by Bell, right?

    If that’s the case, than how did the doorway open if was ALT-Olivia, which I imagine was NOT subjected to cortexiphan?

    Is this a flaw in the story or am I overlooking something here?

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    • Arun says

      It does seem like a massive flaw!
      The writers could be suggesting that Altlivia is a Cortexichild, but I think it’s probably due to the fact that all of Bell’s energy (i.e. over a trillion atom-bombs) was enough to open the doorway and send them through. I think that’s what William was trying to tell Walter earlier on, that they didn’t need Olivia to even attempt to open the door without the other Cortexikids, because he would do it for them. We didn’t know him very well, but I’m sad to see Bell go. :c

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    • mlj102 says

      I don’t think it was a flaw at all. The whole point of Bell’s plan is that they would use the crack Olivia created when they traveled over to that side (that’s why they had to go back to the same building) and he “simply” used his power and the doorstop to open it enough so they could travel back.

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      • Azus says

        You’re right – I went back to re-watch that scene at the KFC store. That was the whole point of the doorstop, to go back through the crack already provided before.

        Cheers for the clearing up.

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        • Bishop Takes Queen says

          I was thinking it was a plot discrepancy too until I rewatched it – before they activate the device, Walter says that Olivia doesn’t have enough power (as in, she was still drained from crossing over in the first place).

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  40. Arun says

    Can I also just say how BRILLIANT John Noble was?
    Walter’s confrontation with Bell in the basement lab was amazing. I loved that after realising in Grey Matters that Bell was one of the reasons he was slightly insane, he was finally able to confront the man himself.
    “What kind of man could do that?”
    I teared up a bit here. :c
    And I thought Jasika Nicole did a brilliant job too, after Astrid told Peter “At least you’re back”, there was a lot of emotion in eyes.
    Can’t wait for season 3!

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  41. Con says

    Great episode. Yes, the ending was predictable but I think it was supposed to be. Think about it, if the writers had been going for a big twist reveal at the end, they wouldn’t have shown Altlivia outside the opera house getting the call from Walternate, or maybe they wouldn’t have shown her at all.

    Instead they gave us just enough hints to build up that sense of dread, that “Oh no way, they didn’t, they didn’t” all the way up to the last scene. Which was probably more powerful than the actual reveal would’ve been if there hadn’t been any hints.

    By the way, I was telling my sister how they should have a helicopter hover over the Fringe set and just dump Emmys on it. For everyone.

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    • Bailey says

      Make sure those Emmys you’re dropping don’t hit anyone, I like my Fringe people ALIVE! ;-0

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  42. snbabani says

    my heart it still racing… I cannot wait for season three… I think peter will be the one to figure it out… Damn… Amazing… its hard to keep from spoiling for those who haven’t seen the epidsode…best EVER….

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  43. Peter Venlet says

    I am thinking Olivia will really realize and activate her potential while confined … kind like Neo in the matrix movie series … Walter & Bell showed her the door, now she has to walk thru it …

    I wonder if, maybe, Peter was created and not concieved naturally by Walternate in his lab hence his ability to link and activate the power device that Walternate put before him. The observers have said, many time about Peter that “The boy is Special” If Peter and Olivia are both special could the solution to the series be for them to become a couple, a ying-yang type of thing, and that it is only thru them that the universes can achieve balance?

    We now also know, at least I am assuming it is the case, that it is Walternate that is typing on the slectric 251 in the mirror … He has, it appears, carefully placed himself ina position of power and of high authority where he is able to act and do as he pleases in his universe … he appears to control, and I use that term loosely, how people think and act too .. mind control? I no like the “evil walter” so much.

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  44. gil_cdn says

    If our Walter can spot/confirm our ‘no-nonsense, don’t fool around, get to the point’ Olivia in the hospital ER in less than two dialogue, I am sure our Walter will quickly realize that the one came over with them is an impersonator. Don’t you think so?

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    • FinChase says

      Yes, I think you are right. And BTW, I loved that little moment between them. I wonder if AltLiv’s orders are not so much to interact with the Bishops but to link up with Newton and undermine Fringe division. I would think it might be important for her to avoid the Bishops, sort of the way Charlie-Shifty seemed to stay away from everyone.

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      • SF says

        I did wonder that she didn’t come back to the lab with them, or be seen with Broyles after – someone suggested the debriefing and I think that is exactly right, wouldn’t Broyles know her well enough to know her attitude at least was off? I think you’re right, Fin, she will avoid them as much as possible, but how much can she without raising suspicion? Maybe she will go on the run – take Liv’s identity and go into hiding with Newton. If we only knew what her orders from the typewriter were!

        Gil: it shouldn’t take long, it is impossible to be enough like someone you barely know for very long. Just the way AltLiv stands, walks, puts her coat on – I mean, if they had looked at her by the machine, they would have seen her hair was in her jacket the way altLiv wears it, and she was standing differently and watching, not helping, not smiling. How did she get out of the theatre on the other side without raising suspicion? There are so many questions!!!

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      • LMH says

        One of my favorite moments of the entire ep was that scene between those two: Olivia’s we don’t have time for this and Walter saying it is you isn’t it. That was wonderful, really made me smile.
        Going to be hard for Altivia to avoid Peter and Broyles though, and Peter’s very good at observing Liv. Good luck trying Altivia, I will enjoy watching you fall on your face for helping Walternate!

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  45. Winston Smith says

    Fantastic episode. it took me awhile to figure out when the switch was made. I sort of sensed something happened when the grenade went off and Bell was stunned and disoriented. Sad to see Mr. Spock go, but he sure went out with a blaze of glory and made his final TV appearance on Fringe.

    As far as how they got back, I dont think it matters that Alt-Liv was or wasnt a Cortex child, I sure that the massive power release by Bell when he exploded provided all the power needed to get them back thru the original crack Olivia and the kids created. After all Bell and Walter didnt need them, they just needed alot of power.

    Peters comment about Alt-Liv’s eyes being darker should be a dead giveway, plus she seems rather dead inside (souless) as do most of the people on the Other side. I guess after 25 years of horrors that Peter and Walter saw (all the quarantine zones and devastated areas) I guess even regular people would be a bit messed up living in a world like that – never knowing when one of these eruptions would appear. I guess Alt-Liv would get some lighter contact lenses to hide the eye thing (she seems smart enough to think of it). Her main problem would be not knowing little details like computer passwords, not having Olivias memories or people/places/events that might come up in daily life (especially past cases Olivio worked on with Fringe Division and even farther back). Impersonating someone else without alot of preparation wouldnt be easy. Logically Alt-Liv would have to be exposed rather early in Season 3.

    The good news is they have a reason for another trip to Alt World.

    One other thought is whether or not Alt-Liv being exposed to Our World will change her in some way once she sees how the Other Side lives. Sure we have our problems but its nothing like the horrors of Alt World.

    There will be so much to chew on until next season – these 2 episodes probably have even more details that people missed. There were even posters on a wall where comic book hero Green Lantern was Red Lantern and Green Arrow was Red Arrow.

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    • FinChase says

      “One other thought is whether or not Alt-Liv being exposed to Our World will change her in some way once she sees how the Other Side lives. Sure we have our problems but its nothing like the horrors of Alt World.”

      That could actually have the opposite effect of making her more angry at the way her world is being destroyed. I think the only hope is if she sees that contrary to what Walternate told her, the people on our side are not all “monsters in our skin,” that they are people just going about their lives, doing the best they can. Will she be openminded enough to see this? Our Olivia would be, but I’m not sure about AltLiv.

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    • eveybane says

      “Peters comment about Alt-Liv’s eyes being darker should be a dead giveway”

      Actually, he was saying that Olivia had the darker eyes, not Altlivia. In fact, for someone who sees so many horrible things going on on her side, Altlivia is surprisingly upbeat (for lack of a better word) compared to her counterpart.

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      • StrawberryFlavoredDeath says

        “In fact, for someone who sees so many horrible things going on on her side, Altlivia is surprisingly upbeat (for lack of a better word) compared to her counterpart.”

        I don’t agree with you, exactly. Yes, Altlivia does seem upbeat, but I think it’s just a facade. When Peter said, “She’s [Olivia] always trying to make up for something. Right some imaginary wrong. Haunted, I guess,” it looked, to me, like Altlivia was very uneasy and a bit nervous (like she realized that her and Olivia weren’t so different). But I could’ve been imagining things.

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        • eveybane says

          Hmm…I dunno. Her bantering back and forth with her team seemed pretty genuine. And I didn’t think she looked nervous when Peter told her that, though she did look down for a bit, like she was thinking. Maybe she did sympathize with Olivia; who knows.

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          • SF says

            I thought AltLiv looked puzzled, like what kind of description was that, she certainly isn’t haunted – and then Peter lets her go by saying she isn’t like Olivia after all. Only after she met Olivia did she understand how different they were.

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    • FringeFan2009 says

      I don’t think that there is a difference in eye color. I think that that difference in hair color makes it appear that they have different eye color. I also know people that have eyes that change color depending on what color clothes they are wearing.

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      • eveybane says

        It might’ve been that he wasn’t even referring to eye color. Peter said Olivia was “darker in the eyes,” which goes along with his description of her being “haunted.” I think he was referring to her overall demeanor and outlook (and possibly how it affects her appearance).

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  46. Winston Smith says

    There also is another LOST reference (previously the episode “Night of Desirable Objects” has all the LOST number sprinkled within it) was the Model 77 “blow things up” gun Bell developed. Lost had an episode “Enter 77″ which featured that number and the communications building blew up at the end. ABC really should have picked up FRINGE and aired it right after LOST – it might be in better shape ratings wise.

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  47. FinChase says

    Wow, what an episode–I consider Part 1 and Part 2 to be one episode, really.

    I do not know how I’m going to get through the summer now. I would gladly give up the next four months of my life if it would mean that the new season would start next week.

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  48. bdp says

    What an absolutely amazing episode. I’m not even going to try to explain how great I thought this was in detail because it would just become an incoherent rant because I’m kind of left speechless it was that good.

    Anna Torv was just the picture of perfection. How she acts and pulls of her role, or in this case roles, so well I may never know.

    I was happy to see the Olivia and Peter moment, especially after all we’ve gotten from how heartbroken she’s been since Peter left and how in this episode every time Altlivia was mentioned or Peter spoke to her you could actually see and hear him breaking up think about Liv even though he’d try to shut his emotions down as quick as he could. I think because of that the scene was much more fitting and less contrived than that in Jacksonville even though I didn’t feel anywhere near as negatively about that scene that others did. I still just felt this one was not forced in any way. It felt natural.

    As for the episode as a whole it rocked. Bell, Walter/Walternate, Peter, Altcharlie, the overall mythology progression and the set up for next season. Everything was great and I simply can’t wait for September now. Since I don’t think I’ll be able to handle it, I’ll leave it to Roco to work his wonders and somehow crank out a review for everything that happened last night. Should be great.

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  49. Andrew says

    What doesn’t make sense is how Alt-Liv managed to “crack open the door” when she wasn’t one of the Cortex kids? They kept saying that they needed Liv’s ability to reopen that door to our universe… so if Alt-Liv was there, how was that door opened?

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  50. Winston Smith says

    With enough power you dont need a Cortex kid to reopen the crack. After all When Walternate came to our universe he didnt need them. Before they knew they had the “Awesome Power of Bell” and the coil gizmo to get them back they assumed the only way back was using Olivia. Plus the remains of the crack may have still been there and just needed to be forced back open by Bell. Peters presence also could have been a factor.

    Once they realize Olivia is stuck on the other side, either they will have to go back to get her (using the old Walter method) or she will have to find a way back on her own and then deal with her evil twin. It would be interesting if Alter-Liv realized maybe that our universe aint so bad after all and changes sides.

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  51. FinChase says

    I’ve been thinking about the “clue” that the producers promised was in the finale. The one that they said they would be surprised if anyone picked up on (which probably means that everyone will find it!)

    One thing that jumped out at me was when Walternate told AltLiv that Peter was his son. She replied, “The one who was kidnapped 20 years ago?” Not 25 years ago or over 20 years ago. It was emphatically 20 years ago. I started thinking about time in this episode, and wondered if the other side might be able to manipulate time, or if time actually passes differently on the other side.

    We have AltLiv’s lover, Frank, who is going away for a week, “not til the end of time.” We have the switch between Olivia and AltLiv, which presumably occurred when Olivia was either shot by AltLiv or knocked out by a grenade. Even if AltLiv just rapidly switched shirts with Olivia (she was wearing white at the beginning of the firefight, Olivia red), it still would have taken a few minutes. And she had to get some instructions from Walternate, such as Olivia’s address, and probably the location of Walter’s lab and the Federal building. I would have thought either Peter or Walter would have come out and told them they were ready to go if it had taken very long. Then we have the state Olivia’s in by the final scene. She’s on the ragged edge of panic. I would have thought it would take more than just a few hours to reduce that strong woman to that condition. I wondered if she hadn’t already been isolated for some days at that point. We already know that the Observers seem to be able to move through time. I wondered if that is something we will see come into play during season 3.

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    • LizW65 says

      “One thing that jumped out at me was when Walternate told AltLiv that Peter was his son. She replied, “The one who was kidnapped 20 years ago?” Not 25 years ago or over 20 years ago. It was emphatically 20 years ago. I started thinking about time in this episode, and wondered if the other side might be able to manipulate time, or if time actually passes differently on the other side.”

      That stood out for me as well. I couldn’t imagine the writers making that obvious a continuity error, so my first thought was that it was their way of showing that Alt-Liv wasn’t too knowledgeable about world affairs, or perhaps less exacting than her counterpart when it comes to details.

      Then I started thinking that maybe only twenty years really had passed on the other side. Hmm. Maybe the Other Side is kind of like Narnia, where every time you go back you find that a few weeks, or a year, or a thousand years have passed, or no time at all.

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      • mlj102 says

        See, I just didn’t make a big deal out of it. Yes, it’s 25 years instead of 20 years, but I figured alternate Olivia was just making a general statement. Sure, the story is famous, but that doesn’t mean everyone commemorates it on the anniversary of the event and keeps track of exactly how many years it has been. So I viewed it as simply making an approximation. In that context, I didn’t think it was necessary for her to clarify “almost 20 years ago” or “about 20 years ago” She knew about the history event, knew about how long ago it had occurred, and just used the approximation rather than taking the time to calculate exactly how many years it had been. Personally, once I start referring to things that are more than 15 or 20 years old, I just approximate rather than trying to calculate the precise amount of time that has passed, especially when I’m trying to think on the spot like she was. So it didn’t strike me as completely odd or inconsistent for her to say it was 20 years ago. Of course, that’s not to say it isn’t possible for this theory to be accurate… I just personally didn’t view this particular comment to be implying any deeper significance.

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    • Maggie says

      I think, in addition to being in the dark cell/room (and seeing creepy Walternate), a lot of her fear is becasue she knows AltOlivia went to the other side and that Peter and Water and everyone isnt safe–And that Olivia cant do anything about it. We know how much she needs to protect people…and she cant.

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      • mlj102 says

        Actually, I’m not quite sure what Olivia knows. We have no way of knowing what happened or if she knows what happened to the others. She might think they were captured and are being held captive as well. She might think Walternate was able to force Peter to use the machine. Or, she might have guessed that they made it back and alternate Olivia is impersonating her. But at this point, I don’t know if she has any confirmation regarding what happened to them. That uncertainty would certainly add to her being agitated and concerned.

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        • SF says

          From Olivia’s reaction, I would think she was conscious when they brought her in – otherwise wouldn’t she panic at waking in complete darkness and silence? bad enough to be shut in that room, and the only light comes when Walternate comes to stare at her so evilly and then go, without a word or nod or recognition that she is human. If I had any doubt about his sanity, that resolved it for me: he isn’t sane. At all. I wonder how long he will torture Olivia with little visits to her like that? I can’t go on imagining it, it will torture me, never mind Olivia! It really is a cliff-hanger of an ending.

          As to time travel, I think that if they did have time travel on the alt-side, it can only be for a few hours at a time, if that. Because if they did, couldn’t they go to the weak spots – travel back in time – and evacuate it so people could escape? If they had time travel, wouldn’t Walternate go all the way back to his past and change it so Walter can’t come take Peter?

          I do think you are right, FinChase, when you say that the time is odd – something happened then when the grenades went off, though I thought Bell was out long enough for altLiv to change, but not long enough for Peter and Walter to get worried and come out. Interesting that the grenade explosion didn’t already weaken the fabric of the universe there too since it was already weak. I wonder if it had to be quarantined after the device and William went off atomically?

          i don’t think they have the ability to move through time. But I do wonder if the time is also a bit different between universes. Astrid says he’s been gone for a week. Did she mean when he vanished on his road trip, or when he went over to the other side? Was he gone for only a week from Boston? He was gone for at least two days before Olivia finds him at the end of NWP (we don’t know if he flies or drives to Boston, better be flying) – he needs one day to solve the case? two?, 3 days unconscious/asleep on the other side, at least one more night sleeping (altLiz goes to bed, he flies in the morning after to the city), and that night he is zapped back home? Maybe we should revisit the question of how time is portrayed on this show!! lol No wonder he was so confused and not sure where he was if everything went that fast!!

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          • mlj102 says

            “From Olivia’s reaction, I would think she was conscious when they brought her in – otherwise wouldn’t she panic at waking in complete darkness and silence?”

            It all depends. She could have been unconscious at the scene, and woken up at any point traveling from the scene to being put in the cell. Or even if she was conscious the whole time, that still doesn’t mean that she knows what happened to the others. If they took her before alternate Olivia woke up Bell, then she has no way of knowing what actually happened inside the building, right? Or, it could be that she had been unconscious the whole time it took them to get her into the cell, and that she didn’t wake up until after she was in there. I agree, she would panic if that was the case… and the reaction we saw from her definitely looked like panic to me. We don’t see Olivia that vulnerable very often and it takes a lot to reduce her to that much of an emotional wreck — I imagine that kind of reaction would have resulted if she was disoriented and unsure what was going on when they put her in there.

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            • SF says

              I’ve just watched the episode again, and she was completely terrified especially when Walternate just looks at her, so coldly, and then turns away. However I also think Olivia has enough fortitude and courage to draw on, enough inner resources, that she will get through it somehow. Anyway I have to keep saying that to myself because it’s only day one :-) and I keep trying to NOT think about the fact that light deprivation is one way of torture for soldiers, one way to brainwash them. The disorientation from not having any time, light, anything regular to base the passing of time, destroys most people in a very short time. This is extreme solitary confinement. I’m obsessing again, they can’t leave Olivia like this ALL SUMMER LONG!!!

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    • FringeFan2009 says

      I think that Olivia’s address would have been easy. I’m sure Olivia had her wallet in her jacket somewhere. She grabbed everything out of her jacket and read the license.

      Agreed on the running her jagged by the end of the scene. It must have already been a few days, plus I don’t think she had slept for a few days since she’s been in the alternate universe.

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  52. says

    @Andrew, Belly opened it (and commited suicide at the same time).

    Awesome season finale, but I feel quite dissapointed with the end, it was too predictable. Looking forward season 3, its gonna be a loooong time…

    Regards from Spain!

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  53. says

    By the way, the final clue for me was the way AltOliv walks toward the universe-traveller crew in the theatre seconds before travel, she moved her hip unnaturally, too cool, not the Oliv’s way. Now we have Olivia completely alone over there, no Belly, no cortexiphan mates, no Peter, nothing. Its gonna be hard for her.

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    • ndolo says

      Remember from the episode “october” (i believe) at the end with the two observers watching olivia and her niece on the roller coaster.
      …she seems so happy now, its a shame things are about to get so difficult for her.

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      • mlj102 says

        The episode “October”… I think you mean the episode “August”. I’m not trying to mock you or anything, but that was probably the most innocent, adorable mistake I’ve ever seen… But perfectly understandable!

        And, yes, I thought about that moment too — were the Observers aware that Olivia would eventually be held hostage on the other side? It certainly qualifies as difficult times!

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        • FinChase says

          Yes, I think that was what they were referring to. On another site, we’ve had an ongoing thread for months speculating on what was meant by that line. Well, Olivia’s never exactly had an easy time on Fringe, but it all seems like a picnic compared to her situation now!

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        • ndolo says

          Yes, i was referring to “August”. I hope we get another look into the world of the observers in the upcoming season.

          mlj and fin, love your observations …keep them coming!

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  54. LMH says

    Anyone know what the theater sign says (the marquee) right above Walter and Bell when they are unloading the doorstop machine? “The Brooklyn Plan” maybe? It’s “The Brooklyn” something.

    Also, there appears to be some symbol on the lower right side of the second sign (the one with clear writing on it) next to Walter’s lab at the edge of the Ghost Network-type quarantine bubble. It is VERY SMALL and hard to make out. Maybe someone with computer skills who can do screen caps, or who has a bigger screen can make it out.

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    • Bailey says

      I think that the movie marquee (the bottom of it) says
      “Indiana Jones and the End of the World”

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  55. SF says

    So I’ve had 14 hours to process this episode a little, and regain my powers of coherent thought and speech. This episode was beyond awesome. It took all my expectations, even the few I’d predicted (the Livs switch universes) and surprised me with everything, including with how it was done. Above all, it wrapped up enough to leave me satisfied, and created so many questions for next season. How do they do that? I can’t believe it’s only day one of the 100 day summer break. Day one!! I’m so full of anxiety for our Olivia, so anxious that someone recognize AltLiv before it’s too late, that I think they have created a better cliff-hanger than last season.

    Things that stand out for me:
    – Boston. The amber containment, the quarantine area up close. Horrifying, nightmarish, and those people trapped in there. Suddenly the altFringe team’s jocularity in the first Part is really a cover for facing sure death. I wonder if the fields can be withdrawn? those ‘legally dead’ people in the Madison Square Garden wormhole quarantine field….but the scene outside Boston, the devastation and the frozen quality, really stand out out for me.
    – the lab scene with Bell and Walter, and the KFC diner scene. Like many other commentators, I loved both – Olivia telling them to get a grip and sort it out later! their familiarity with each other, how well they knew and know one another. I see now that Walter needs Bell, that they really were partners. I especially like that at the end, we realize that, as with all our Fringe characters, love – in this case, deep friendship – was what made William do what he did to Walter (the brain removal), and he make the ultimate sacrifice for him. *wipes away yet another tear* I said before that I think the line about atoms and stars is beautiful, and I like how William tells Walter that he taught him that. What a deep friendship they had, that William crossed over for him,to try to find a way to stop the war and the effects of taking Peter. Yes, he profited, yes MD experimented horribly as a result – but that’s our Fringe for us, terrible acts and heroic acts together. Did I say how much I love Nimoy’s performance here? I want more Bell! How on earth did he make Bell be intelligent, humane, and interesting? I would love to know more about what he thinks about choices made in both universes! Another favourite line: “You know, Walter, of all our achievements, I think she is our greatest achievement of all” and they both look at Olivia in a fatherly way as she leaves.
    – the fight scene with AltLIv. I was not sure how this would turn out. Most unexpected was discovering her mother was alive there,and how that made a connection between them, even if AltLiv proved she is always on mission first. I thought Anna was superb here, and in all her scenes in this episode. I didn’t think I could love her acting any more, and I do.
    – Peter, and Joshua Jackson in this episode. I too was left wondering after last episode what was going on with him, and when he says he prefers the red hair on AltLIv I was so mad! So I was dreading Olivia finally getting to him so much that I had to cover my eyes the first time I watched the episode in case he was cold towards her again. Once more, the writers surprised me – from Peter smiling to see AltCharlie, to how she throws in the Observer and friends in two sentences to tell him who she is – and then she stands there and tells him how she really feels. And kisses him. I uncovered my face then! what a kiss! Finally, we get the kiss and wrap up all the anxiety I’ve felt since Jacksonville, and what a long way she has come to knowing how she feels about him. In counterpoint, Peter’s slow change of expression as he sees the world around him and realization in talking to Alt-Liv, that she isn’t the Olivia he loves, and this world isn’t his world. It was all so well done, and I felt so sad for him. He’d come home to find his real father betraying him, and the person he did love on the other world wasn’t the same on his own. So even though he’s still angry she didn’t tell him, when she kisses him and he responds, it was kind of perfect and so earned by both of them. The shipper in me is so ecstatic at that moment, cause it will have to do for God knows how many months and worry now!!! I do feel badly for altLIz, and I wonder if Peter called her? Said goodbye? that’s going to hurt if he didn’t. I think she will be happier that he left and is alive, though. Favourite moments: Olivia saying there’s 100 reasons for him to come back, but the only one that matters is he belongs with her (and the kiss), and Peter describing Olivia to Alt-Liv: “she’s always righting some imaginary wrong”, and then, “she’s haunted”. He gets a wobble in his voice, so perfectly done, and we see him realize it at that moment. All through this episode she did look haunted, and I think that’s a quality she’s gotten as the cortexiphan knowledge and alt-world discovery is working on her. She is haunted, and trust the man who loves her to come up with the one-word perfect description of our Olivia.

    Did anyone else love AltLiv talking to AltWalter and how neither slipped up? Wow. Breathtaking acting all around. I didn’t mention John Noble, but I do think he deserves a special mention because not only does he play the dual roles perfectly, but he’s equal to Nimoy in their scenes. I really do wish we could see them together more. Grumpy Old Scientists is right!! (thanks commentator who came up with that!)

    From beginning to end, simply a wonderful episode that I love. Thank you, writers, thank you, actors!! I’m not sure I can get through the 100 days ahead of us, but this is an excellent way to start the break. Except I’m haunted by Olivia trapped in that dark room.

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    • Fred says

      Is the amber containment used in Boston for quarantine the same as was used on the bus in one of the Season 1 episodes?

      Perhaps this was a trial run in our universe prior to the first containment in the alternate universe?

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  56. Rich says

    Well….either Bolivia or Peter may have cortexiphan in them. That could be the only way they got back. The other theory is that Bell did it all on his own. Somehow I don’t buy the latter.

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    • Bailey says

      Ok, I’ve recently discovered the “Poilvia” and “Bolivia” terms, and would really appreciate it if someone could explain to me the difference. Thanks!

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      • mlj102 says

        I believe Polivia refers to the Peter/Olivia relationship, though I don’t think it’s used too often — people seem to use P/O more often…

        I’ve also seen Bolivia used to refer to the Peter/Olivia relationship (the B comes from Bishop, I believe) though it has recently come to be associated more with alternate Olivia. In the episode script, they needed a way to distinguish between which Olivia was in a given scene, so the writers made up the name Bolivia. That’s what showed up on a lot of closed captioning for the episode. So a lot of people are referring to alternate Olivia as Bolivia. But there are lots of names for alternate Olivia. Consequently, I’ve decided to stick with just writing it out. All the various names for alternate Olivia are rather amusing and complicated. But clever. But it would be nice if there could be some sort of consensus on which one to use…

        Anyway, I hope that helps clear it up for you…

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  57. yis says

    y is the Transamerica Pyramid in New York in the Alt Universe. Was it supposed to be there originally?

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    • Inter-dimensional Dave says

      I think it is because there is no California to speak of “over there”. Check the map from last weeks episode. Walter seemed to be wearing a Brooklyn Dodgers cap also. So I guess the Dodgers never left for L.A. especially if there is no L. A.!

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  58. eveybane says

    So I’m guessing the favor that Walternate asked of Altlivia was to masquerade as Olivia; that would explain why she asked what her double was like – she was trying to figure out what kind of role she’d have to play.

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    • mlj102 says

      At first I thought the same thing, but then I decided that doesn’t make sense. He had no way of knowing at that point that Peter was going to choose to go back to our side. He also had no way of knowing that our Olivia would manage to apprehend alternate Olivia and would alter her appearance to look like alternate Olivia. It just seems like an unnecessary plan to make that early in the game. I felt that alternate Olivia’s questions about our Olivia were genuine… who wouldn’t want to know about their alternate?

      That said, I imagine the favor was for alternate Olivia to take Peter back to his apartment and just socialize with him for a bit, maybe in an attempt to make Peter feel more comfortable over there and like he could fit in. Walternate certainly noticed Peter’s reaction to alternate Olivia, and realized that Peter had a strong relationship with our Olivia, and I think he wanted to use that to his advantage to try and help Peter adjust to being over here. I don’t think Walternate planned to have alternate Olivia impersonate our Olivia until that moment when we saw alternate Broyles and alternate Olivia receiving their orders at the scene.

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      • eveybane says

        I just had this crazy thought that maybe he had planned ahead, just in case if Peter and the rest of the team -did- manage to go back to the other side. A contingency plan, if you will. I suppose your explanation makes more sense, though. :P

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      • SF says

        I thought the same things too – that the first favour, he asked AltLiv to impersonate Olivia, but the more I thought about it the more I realized it was to drive Peter to his apartment and find out about the other Olivia – who she was, what she means to Peter. Then when it looked like Olivia was going to get away with Peter, Walter asked AltLiv to go infiltrate the group.

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        • FringeFan2009 says

          Yep I think the orders came as they arrived at the Opera house. Both Altivia and Broyles had a reaction to their headsets. So I imagine the orders came then. It will be interesting to see what Altivia’s orders actually are. Cuz as Peter said in a previous episode “Soldiers always come with orders.” I also think it interesting to see how unemotional the alternate universe is. They’ve been through so much that nothing phases them anymore?

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          • eveybane says

            I wonder if infiltrating/invading the other side had been in the planning beforehand, even before Peter came over to the Other Side. Altlivia seemed pretty sure of where to go, who to ask, and what to ask for (in regards to the typewriter). She also knew how to operate the typewriter, and that someone would answer her from the other side. That seems like an awful lot to communicate in just a few seconds in the middle of a firefight – my guess is that Altlivia and her boyfriend are part of some special unit that’s been training for this kind of thing. That would explain why they’ve both got that tattoo, and *possibly* why Altlivia hasn’t suffered any side effects from crossing over (perhaps her asking about Olivia had ulterior motives, as well). Walternate saw a chance get one of his own to our side, and he took it.

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  59. Elaine says

    A couple of things dawned on me this morning as I was driving to work. I really like how the story has come full circle in a lot of ways. I thought the conversation between Olivia and alt/Charlie was reminiscent of the pilot after John died in Olivia’s arms. This coming after a confrontation with herself emotionally and physically—coupled with the fact that her world has once again been turned upside down. It’s one thing to try and come to terms with a betrayal of someone you love, but it’s quite another to try and wrap your head around the mistrust and betrayal you see reflected back in essentially your own eyes.
    I also liked how the finale bookended with the pilot where Walter was retrieved from St. Claire’s, having suffered seventeen years for kidnapping Peter. Similarly, Olivia crosses dimensions to retrieve Peter just to find herself in a padded cell at “Walter’s” hands for trying to rescue Peter from what appeared to be certain death. Their reasons were reflective of one another as well (lots of reflections in this episode) in that they both acted out of selfishness (in a sense), but it was born out of love for Peter.
    Speaking of Peter—I felt this episode did a far better job of capturing his mindset than ‘Northwest Passage’, because I could truly sense his efforts to separate himself emotionally from our world as well a the people he left behind along with the idea of never returning. Everything from his surprise/excited reaction when Walternate’s secretary said Olivia was there to see him to his attempt to “flirt” with alt/Olivia when he said he liked her red hair better. Liar! Later, when alt/Olivia was asking Peter questions about our Olivia, I could sense some uneasiness about the decision he’d made—perhaps even regret in leaving Olivia behind. The alt/verse may have been the world he was born to, but for all intents and purposes, it’s a, ‘You can never go home again’ type of situation for Peter, and I think he realizes that now. Again, like the pilot, Peter had to make a decision to go back and eventually stick around, giving Walter another chance despite the difficulties between them.

    “One thing that jumped out at me was when Walternate told AltLiv that Peter was his son. She replied, “The one who was kidnapped 20 years ago?” Not 25 years ago or over 20 years ago. It was emphatically 20 years ago. I started thinking about time in this episode, and wondered if the other side might be able to manipulate time, or if time actually passes differently on the other side.”

    That stood out to me too, and I think that may be the clue they were referring to. Alt/Olivia said it was a famous story, but I wonder if like the ZFT, it’s a smoke screen? Of course, that raises the question of why lie about the amount of time Peter’s been gone? A flag was raised as well regarding the sequence of Olivia/alt Olivia switching…it was like a gap of time went missing. Like Alistair Peck, it would appear the alt/verse knows how to manipulate time on their side…without the whole enbedding a faraday mesh under their skins, of course.

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    • mlj102 says

      “Speaking of Peter—I felt this episode did a far better job of capturing his mindset than ‘Northwest Passage’, because I could truly sense his efforts to separate himself emotionally from our world as well a the people he left behind along with the idea of never returning.”

      Well said! And I completely agree with you about how this episode did a better job of showing Peter’s feelings and his conflict than either Northwest Passage or Over There, Part 1. This time I could actually see how he wanted to be able to fit in over there, but he was realizing that he couldn’t belong over there. It wasn’t his home. He was more a foreigner there than he was on our side. And I could see that he did miss Olivia and Walter and he was struggling to adjust to no longer having them around. I really liked the exchange between Peter and Walternate when Walternate was explaining that all the damage on their world was caused by “that man” who took Peter, and Peter responded by saying that that was a lot of blame to place on just one man. That line and the way it was delivered really gave me the impression that, although Peter is still bitter towards Walter and what he did, he is also sympathetic to a certain extent, and he does still care about Walter. It was the little moments like that that I have felt were missing in the last two episodes. It was so nice to finally see that emotion!

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      • SF says

        Absolutely, well said, both of you, mlj102 and Elaine! I finally got a sense of how Peter was feeling – and maybe he was too. Maybe the shock of everything was wearing off, and he was realizing where he was. Seeing Alt-Liv and then the strangeness of her not being like his Olivia, and as you say, Walternate and Walter. It was wonderful to see that emotion from him.

        Elaine, FinChase remarked about this sense of time displacement too, I’ve answered up at her post first. Interesting that all three of you did sense some time missing, because I didn’t. Makes me think I missed something! I just thought the explosion knocked him out long enough for AltLiv to change to the red shirt, though upon reflection I thought surely Peter would come out to check on Olivia (like another commentator also said) if too much time lapsed.

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      • degnirf says

        I can’t see how Walter could have have possibly caused all that damge by himself to the other side, when our side isn’t so bad. I also didn’t believe Belll for a second when he also said it was all Walter’s fault.

        That may be wishful thinking though….

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        • Elaine says

          You know, it might be, but I didn’t believe Bell either, although, in his defense, it’s possible that’s what he’s been led to believe, because there’s been no concrete evidence that’s proven otherwise. I suppose until the writers pull the lense back further on the story, we won’t know, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s more truth in Peter’s reply to Walternate, “That’s a lot to blame on just one man.” than we currently believed.

          Oh, and just for the record, I would watch a spin off of Bell and Bishop adventures in a heartbeat. Noble and Nimoy were perfection together. What an amazing exit for Nimoy.

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  60. Pam says

    Did anybody notice how our Olivia says “Is that mom, is she alive” etc. and also by the way she describes Rachel & Ella to Bolivia, it sounds like she thinks of both of them as one – like they have a common mom, sister & niece. But, Bolivia on the other hand, asks “You have a sister too?” – so clearly Bolivia sees our olive only as an intruder…

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  61. Pamela says

    The poll is broken. I cannot choose 10 Best EVER Fringe Episode!!

    Love, love, love this episode!

    This season finale was excellent! Best ever!

    ‘Walternate’ is the ONLY name to call Walternate. I see Alternate Charlie working with Liv next season, which is great news because that means Kirk Acevedo is back, hopefully. The scenes between Leonard Nemoy & John Noble were no less than brilliant. Special effects were awesome. The alternate universe was perfect especially the alternate characters. Alternate Olivia looks great as a red head.

    The only problem I had with the entire 2-part season finale was it seemed a bit rushed, but it’s tv show, not the big screen. Can you imagine this show being on the big screen? Wow. And FINALLY Peter & Liv kiss. That ‘you belong with me’ comment was absolutely priceless. Sigh. LOVE that the writers put in some true romance. What ever happened to that in TV land?! Love is what IT is ALL about. Some writers seemed to have forgotten that over the past years because of the Moonlighting debacle.

    This ‘spy invades the good guys’ storyline has so much more potential because Olivia is a main character while Charlie was not. So many more facets and character arches for this storyline with the relationships Olivia is involved. I too hope it will be solved within 2-3 eps at the most.

    The ending was excellent.

    Can. Not. Wait. Till. Next. Season. I’ve already watched my Amazon VOD seasons 1 & 2 three times within the last 3 months. Will definitely be watching again. Excellent job to the writers, cast, & crew!

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    • mlj102 says

      “The poll is broken. I cannot choose 10 Best EVER Fringe Episode!!”

      That happened to me when I tried voting on the poll off on the side bar, but when it didn’t work, I voted on the poll included in this post, and it worked… So if you haven’t already, maybe you can try that?

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  62. LMH says

    About the comics in the apartment Walternate puts Peter up in: I think they might be Peter’s comics from when he was young simply put up in this nice apartment that comes with Walternate’s high status these days. A love of comics and action figures by young Peter connects to his looking at the toy in “Inner Child” and saying “I always remembered the scar being on the other side.” I think in Roco’s oberservations about “Peter” young Peter on our side loved geography? and Peternate/our Peter loved space/science. So more insight into Peter’s childhood in addition to a love of bacon lol. He remembers little things which he thought he only imagined.
    And as noted by someone already, one comic right behind Peter is the Red Arrow vs. the Red Lantern when here it was the Green Lantern. I can’t really make out the rest and I know next to nothing about comics.

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    • SF says

      Oh good point about them being Peter’s comics!! I just thought Walter was using them as art. Sometimes I do miss the obvious!! lol I did notice them – especially as I love Green Arrow on Smallville – Red Arrow and Red Lantern – and you know, isn’t that a cute play on the red and green lights we’ve been seeing all through both seasons?

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  63. Xochitl says

    The poll is broken! I imagine that’s a good thing :)

    I was hating myself because I saw parts of the explosion at a video spoiler and i thought that was the end, like peter and olivia pseudo dying in a car bomb, when I saw Jackson’s interview yesterday saying it would be the best tv hour ever I thought “well, if that is the end it’s gonna suck” so happy to be wrong! :)

    HOW AMAZING WAS THAT!!! I was pulling my hair last night waiting to be today and cant watch the episode, some of you could say that the swap was predictable, yeah it was, but I think the dread I have now was pretty much the point of the whole thing, the cliffy had to be bigget than last year and I liked it.

    I am a shipper so: YES!!!!!!!!!! when I was watching the scen I thought “Just kiss him Olivia” first time a tv character listens to me, i like to have probe that indeed Olivia loves Peter, it feels so good! and my little heart felt warm all ot the suden, and that’s why I don’t find Peter’s desicion contrivied (so many months at the blog and I still can’t write that word) it made sense, he doesn’t belong there, he was pretty sure Walternate was using him for something while looking at the machine and as angry as he was he wouldn’t destroy our world because olivia would be still on it! so add that and the fact that Olvia finally told him how he felt and there you have it, and what he said at the end to walter gives me hope, again, Peter is not going to forgive him tomorrow, hell i don’t even think he is going to go back to live with him, but if Walter helps him to get Olivia back i think that would forgive pretty much everythin.

    Now, as some of you had mentioned, yes, altLivia has a ton of tells, and Peter knows her, our Olivia I mean, it’s going to be normal if he gets cofused and don’t notice the differece at the beginning because it would make sense to Peter if she withdraws, makes like this didn’t happen or even acts just weird IF they go into a relationship, he is going to notice probably by the tatoo (if they get physical, which I hope not!) of the hair (if that’s altlvia’s natural hair color Peter is going to wonder why the color is not coming out) and maybe they would try to decive her or use her somehow to get our olivia back, once everyone notices. Funny how I never found alt!livia and peter getting into a romance so repulsive as I do know, I just thought he belonged with her instead with our olivia, how wrong could I be! :)

    I think alt!Livia was sent to get information from our world, as Walternate said there areas where they are not as advanced, that info can come in handy, and then maybe they would ike to blackmail peter to use the machine in exchange for Olivia, of course there is also the posiblity that Alt!livia get’s to see our side and see that wer are not monsters, see the other side of the story and if she doesn’t decide to help at least maybe she wouldn’t want to destroy us.

    I love the acting! if they don’t all get emmy’s this year i just might kill somebody! Anna Torv was awesome, and Joshua, O my god, i just love how he played that scene with Olivia (our Olivia) it was so sweet and tender, it was so intimate, and I think they have just earned it! that has to do it, right? of course we are still going to have a bunch of unconfortable moments between them after they get our olivia back and maybe Olivia will not want to have a relationship with peter after she gets back, the writter can create a bunch of obstacles, but this is DEFINETLY going to happen! that said I want to cry because Olivia is going to go through hell and Peter is going to beat himself up so much when he finds out.

    And i really hope Sam Weiss dones’t end up being the bad guy because that would suck!

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    • LizW65 says

      “maybe they would ike to blackmail peter to use the machine in exchange for Olivia”

      See, I don’t see this happening at all–Peter now knows what the machine is supposed to do, and it doesn’t make sense for him to sacrifice himself to save Olivia, only to send her back to a world that will be destroyed anyway. If he does mount a rescue mission, I think he will be far more invested in destroying the machine altogether, before Walternate can (a) force him to use it, or (b) adapt it to work with another individual, such as Olivia herself.

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      • Xochitl says

        I see the hole in my theory and I think you are right! if the writters go there it would look terribly nonsensical :)

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      • Page 48 says

        And, along those lines, would Walternate even attempt another method of destroying the other side while Peternate is still living there? Does he need to lure Peternate (using Olivia as bait) back to his side, so he can try another way of trashing this side without harming his boy?

        In short, does Peternate’s being over here insure the safety of our side?

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  64. Rich says

    Anyone see the movie playing the car blow up scene?

    I think the bottom one was Indiana Jones & the Hex of the Hydra and the one on top was Superman vs. ? (couldn’t see)

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  65. Helena says

    If Walternate and Bell never met when they were young in the other universe it means that probably the cortexiphan trials did not take place. Shouldn’t Bolivia have problems adjusting after she crossed universes?

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      • Fred says

        Given how well Alt-Livia is adapting to our world and her knowledge of how to find and use the typewriter, I think she may have already linked up with Newton on our side. As an agent, her first step will be to link up with her resources and support on our side.

        I also think she will be found out relatively quickly. When this happens, she will go into hiding and continue to work with Newton. I think the idea that she will come to realize Waltnernate’s characterization of our Fringe team as “monsters” as wrong is unlikely to come to pass. It seems unlikely that she will end up spending enough time with our team to form her own opinion and relationship with our team.

        Her most devious play would be to realize that she will be found out and to then out herself. She could then act like she has converted to our side while continuing to support the other side as a double agent.

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  66. LMH says

    OK obsessive, but I’m trying to figure out what the orders from the other side (the first words or so before the camera switches) were based on the typewriter strokes in the mirror. It is really really difficult especially since you can’t read the letters on the keys and it’s fast so I’m not sure I’ll come up with anything or if the keystrokes used for the scene are even correct. So if anyone wants to help please do.

    But interesting to note that the very next scene cuts to a close up of a light bulb in the hallway where Olivia is being kept by Walternate. Upside down on the zoomed-in light bulb it says “TYPE” and the camera dwells on it.

    So I feel like I (or someone better at this who can make it out) should figure out what was being typed.

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    • Helena says

      Mike Obie is right – the keystrokes are correct – “orders are” and the camera switches.

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      • LMH says

        DARN. I just wasted more than an hr on that. I got something very close to that, a few letters off and just realized it was likely “orders are.” Well that’s lame.

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    • LMH says

      I’m using a photo of a Selectric typewriter keyboard and counting keys. Might be gibberish or another anagram as it’s not making sense so far. Think I’ll give it a couple more tries.

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      • Jodie says

        LMH and Helena, you two are hysterical! Such dedication. Well, too bad you couldn’t get any more information.

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        • SF says

          LMH and Helena are funny and obsessive and have saved me trying to do it too in desperation! lol so we really do have to wait until September…….I even tried slowing my recording down with the typewriter scene to see if I could see which mirror reflection keys were being used!! how desperate is that…..

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              • LMH says

                I wonder if the writers thought we’d even try something like that. Then again they’re probably well aware of how crazy Fringe fans are.

                I’m glad my sickness is interpreted as dedication here ; )
                I hope I’m not dragged off to St. Claire’s before the end of the summer. I’ll be fine so long as they get Fox.

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                • FringeFan2009 says

                  Haha, I think we are all in the same boat here! If you go to saint claires we’re all going with you :D

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              • eveybane says

                How many times was the typewriter tapped after the camera turned away from the mirror? We can spend all summer guessing what the words were. ;D

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  67. FishQueen says

    I don’t know if someone has already posted something about this but… don’t trust Sam Weiss!!! the glyphs spelled Weiss. And on the board in Harvard when Bellie and Walter walked in said “A demon’s twist rusts”, take out the letters of Sam Weiss and yeah. also i thought the guy in the typewriter shop looked like him too. oh the mysteries!!! waiting till this fall is TORTURE!

    I love Leonard Nimoy ♥

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    • Alison says

      Did it really?! *gasp* Maybe his alternate self is a bad guy!

      I mean, I know the guy is shrouded in mystery, but I really hope the real him (from our universe, that is to say if he’s not from “over there”) is not evil!

      I like Sam!! Can I get a WOOT WOOT!!! LOL XD

      BTW, the guy from the shop is not him. He’s the same guy from s02e01. The one who said something like, “I’m not going to wait forever”. I got the impression that he wanted to go to the other side.

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      • FringeFan2009 says

        Agreed, I hope Sam Weiss isn’t a bad guy either. There’s just something about him that Olivia identifies with/or trusts I think would be a better word. They have nice chemistry (not in the romantic sense).

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  68. Bailey says

    “Subtle”
    Could someone go to the scene where Peter and Alt-Olivia go into the apartment, up until Peter says “Subtle…but definitely different” and re-watch that scene, but look at the comics on the wall please.

    I think they’re moving. Or shimmering.
    It might be my DVR.

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    • Alison says

      I don’t see anything. It may be your DVR. Is Walter sharing his drugs with you perhaps? ;) LOL JK

      My family just got a new TV, but when our old one was going bad sometimes it would outline things in a light green color.

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  69. says

    Did anyone see Sam Weiss fixing the typewriter at the end of the episode? OMG! It’s him! The voice and the face is the same! But he looks older and maybe ill. Is he Alternative Sam Weiss? The glyphs of the episode says WEISS, does it make any sense?

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    • yis says

      Yeah, I re-watch it and the voice is his, specially when he says “well you’re in luck” the facial expression are the same of Sam.

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  70. LMH says

    Just a silly comment: Anyone else find it that header “FRINGEBLOGGERS The Crack” humorous? I like the whole idea of the crack, and maybe them having to find one again in order to get back to Olivia.
    But for me Fringe and this site are so addicting they might as well be crack. So here’s to being a crack addict! ; )

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  71. Alison says

    WOW!!!! I have got to say that that was THE BEST episode so far!!! BRILLIANT!!!!! My sister and I couldn’t stop screaming! We were both watching it with my friend, who we totally got hooked on the show, and we were all flipping out and talking at like 300 words per minute! LOL XD

    The ending was phenomenal!! And how ’bout that P/O scene? ;)
    Sooo cute! ^^
    And sooo sad, the pain in Olivia’s eyes! :(

    Since there are already well over 150 comments on here and I don’t have time to read through all of them, I apologize if someone has already mentioned this. But did anyone notice, at the ending scene where Walternate came to Olivia’s cell, the way she was sitting? She looked like a mirror of her younger self sitting in that room with her legs crossed like that and her arms resting on them. Poor Olive! My heart broke for her when she was pleading for Walternate to let her out of the cell and she was pounding on the glass to stop him from leaving her in the dark. :( I’m sure that maybe, hopefully, when the show returns, she might have some flashbacks to her childhood. I could see her as having been afraid of the dark when she was a girl. Any thoughts? Again, I am sorry if this has already been brought up.

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    • Glenda says

      This episode was definatly the bomb!! when olivia was in the cell all curled up it reminded me of the episode Jacksonville when she was in that room with the black wall surrounding her and she was scrunched up in the corner with the little white around her. That part was really sad :( however the Olivia and Peter moment was awesome!! i still cant stop talking about it. lol. BEST EPISODE EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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      • Alison says

        *gasp* Ohhhh, I knew it!! Who else would be responding to me? A big laugh escaped my lips when I saw your name! LOL XD

        I completely agree!! And, like you said, we still can’t stop talking about it! The ending was so sad. You could see the fear plastered all over her face, and throughout the whole episode the pain in her eyes was sooo noticeable. Poor Olive. :(

        I wonder how Peter will react when he discovers what happened, and that Olivia is still on the other side? He will probably be racked with guilt, since it IS kinda his fault that she is there. Not that he purposely caused her kidnapping, but she DID only come to the alt-universe to get him back.

        Anyway, love u Glenda!! ;)

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        • Glenda says

          Peter will be off to save olivia this time lol. maybe there will be another P/O i hope so :) well over course she did cause they belong together :) And i am sure it will not taken long for Peter to realize it isnt the real Olivia. I also cant wait till September to watch season three and see move of the Alternate Universe :)
          love u too Alison!! ;)

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  72. FlashWriter says

    I’m sure you have been at parties where it’s so loud that it’s impossible to have any kind of a conversation. Well, here I am, number 168 when I start–God knows where I’ll be when I’m done. So many people with so many different points of view. I just wanted to to throw in my 11 cents.

    With me, when it comes to American Idol, or even a television series (Glee), there comes a point when I subconscously reach out and pin a contestant as being more than just part of the crowd. Something or somebody who is special. It’s “point zero” no matter how many points came before. Tonight was my “point zero” with “Fringe”. There is nothing I can say that hasn’t already been said. No, I won’t speculate about what’s going to happen next.

    I just want to say how unbelievable I thought this show was tonight. There was no hype, because the “hype” proved to be completely accurate. I have never given any episode a “10” before. But I gave this one a 10 because there wasn’t anything above it. This episode, for me, was completely off the charts.

    I made an off-the-cuff comment yesterday about Anna Torv–about how good I thought she would be. I’ve finally seen everything I ever wanted to see about what she could do–and I walk away for the Summer knowing she has far more than I ever thought. Until this ep, “Bad Dreams” was what I had to go on. Anna so eclipsed that performance, went beyond everything I ever wanted to see from her. This was the episode where she just reached out and pulled my head around, just like I was a fish on a hook. Particularly in that last scene. My hands simply turned to ice. But I shouldn’t single out just that one scene because she shone in every single one. The scene with Peter, when they kissed my arms went up in the air and I whispered a silent “YES!!!” My wife didn’t even make a comment about how grown men shouldn’t get this wrapped up in a TV show. (‘Course, I could always come back at her about this week’s “LOST”, but I won’t dwell on that…) She was just as wrapped up in that scene as I was.

    I just can’t stop raving about Anna. Her complete capture of her alternate Olivia and the establishment of her as a completly different woman (but still, wow, Anna Torv has this smile that just melts me and she does this little eyebrow thing that I so love and haven’t seen for quite a while). It was masterful. Not too heavy, just right.

    But then all of the cast was sensational. John Noble, another fantastic, completely, utterly fantastic ep. Two men, Walternate–a powerful government official who seems to be driven less by logic, less by intellect, but more by a terrible hate which has grown to eclipse his humanity. Walter, who has gone through another hell, racked by guilt, but with a humanity that has only emerged after all else has been torched away. Walter, who found it within himself to forgive William Bell and who could look beyond nearly a generation of resentment. Both characters played out with complete believability. I wasn’t watching one actor playing two men. No. I was watching two unconnected characters–one who curdled my blood and the other who I wanted to reach out and comfort. John Noble, if you don’t get an Emmy this year I just don’t know what.

    Joshua Jackson’s Peter. A man who is at war within himself. A man who needs a center, who needs SOMEONE to hold on to. He’s a man who truly has no place. …and then there’s Olivia…who’s always the strong one giving strength to Peter, admitting to herself what she feels. I’m not sure what Peter was actually feeling during that kiss, but when you’re drowning, you grasp at anything that floats. His presentation of being a ship without a rudder totally blows me away. Think about it, how do you portray someone who has been so uprooted that you’re in shock? Joshua Jackson figured it out. I could FEEL how alone he felt.

    And then there’s Astrid. She has this laugh… But there she was on the other side, little more than a zombie. Then we come back to our side and she’s feeding Peter pieces of pie and laughing that lovable laugh of hers. So full of life–so, well, so very ASTRID. God I love that character–and yes I love Jasika too. So…well…I think you can be in love with two characters–and the actors who play them–and not be classified as fickle, can’t you?

    (…and still, I’m haunted by those pictures of Olivia in my mind. Not the strong one now. Sitting alone in the corner of that chamber in the dark. Sitting like when she was a little girl. Near the edge, or maybe over the edge. Everything that has gone before has caught up with her. And it’s only a matter of time until…well I just hope she can focus on something or some body…)

    I want to go on about the music and the production values and the honestly good script that was the central component of this season’s finale. I’m ignoring my work and I must get to it.

    But I simply had to sit down and gush. WHAT A SHOW! YESSSSSSSSSSS!! Shout it with me: EEEEMY!! EEEEMY!!! EMMMYYYYYY!!!!!

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    • SF says

      Fabulous reply, Flashwriter! It’s cool that a grown man can cheer when Olivia kisses Peter!! and you are so right, we felt Peter’s aloneness (Joshua is finally getting credit for his performance!), we felt Walter’s confusion, Bell’s nobility, Olivia’s staggering performance – I was thinking later this afternoon about how she made each Olivia a separate person and so believable, – same for John with the Walters – such excellent descriptions you gave for everyone. Who cares if you’re # 188 when you have good things to say? Even in a party, the single voice can stand out :-) and I think everyone stands out here, there are so many interesting and varied points being made and so much love for this episode.

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    • Alison says

      Amen to that!!! Great review man!! You said everything that I was feeling, but that I didn’t know how to put into words. Beautifully and soo truthfully written!! Like you, I was also completely comfortable with giving the episode a 10, and I was awestruck with everyone’s performances, especially Anna’s! I too felt that I was watching two different people when it went between alternate versions of the characters. I had to keep reminding myself that, “wow, these people are the same actor”, because they were sooo their own person entirely.

      I don’t know if it was just me, but the scene where “our heroes” are returning to their world, even though by that point I clearly knew Alt-Liv was impersonating our Olivia, was beautifully done!! How there was danger and chaos on the other side, but Bell was just standing there looking at Walter, separated by a force field, preparing to sacrifice himself to return them home, and his redemption, and all he’s been working for, seemed to finally be coming together at that moment. How agents where storming through the opera behind him and were getting so close and Bell’s atoms finally split apart. There was no big boom, but just silence as we see Broyles walking up to the team, the room not dark and dangerous like the other side, but safe. A feeling of warmth just washed over me when I saw that. :)

      Anyway, what a great end to such a compelling season! It DID stack up to all the hype.

      EEEMMY!! EEEEMMY!!! EMMMYYYYYY!!!!! LOL XD

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      • LMH says

        John Noble shouldn’t just win an Emmy, he should win them ALL. Regardless of category! The man is a phenomenon. I would love to meet him in real life just to tell him that and give him a huge hug! He’s adorable and seems pretty humble on top of it all.

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    • FringeFan2009 says

      Wow FlashWriter, you took the words and emotions right out of my mouth. The actors, the producers, the writers…I didn’t think they could out do themselves, but damn they did and amen to that!

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  73. eveybane says

    Was the music playing during the P/O kiss the same as the music that was playing in Jacksonville during the almost-kiss?

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  74. Brian says

    Did anyone else see a photo of Walternate with Obama on Walternate’s desk at the beginning of the episode? That was a nice touch!

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    • gil_cdn says

      Yes, and picture of a JFK with a full head of white hair! There are just so many goodies (easter egg) in the episode that makes you want to go back and watch it over and over again.

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      • LMH says

        Yeah that was fantastic. I actually thought it was Teddy Kennedy for a second, it was fairly well done. Their special effects people are so amazing, gotta love Peter’s alt-New York flyby and landscapes of the city.

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  75. Redgreenred says

    I haven’t read every post so apologies in advance if someone has asked the same thing.

    I have a question about the whole “Don’t trust Sam Weiss” thing. Wasn’t that anagram found on Walternates blackboard? if so wouldn’t that imply that Sam shouldn’t be trusted on the other side? he could be a “good guy” from out perspective after all?

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  76. Elaine says

    “And then there’s Astrid. She has this laugh… But there she was on the other side, little more than a zombie. Then we come back to our side and she’s feeding Peter pieces of pie and laughing that lovable laugh of hers. So full of life–so, well, so very ASTRID. God I love that character–and yes I love Jasika too. So…well…I think you can be in love with two characters–and the actors who play them–and not be classified as fickle, can’t you?”

    Seeing Astrid again…feeding Peter pie, anxiously watching him like a mother hen, smiling like a loon as she rambled on about all the baking she’d done since he was gone, and how glad she was that he was back may have been about the sweetest thing I’ve ever seen on this show. The character and the actress that plays her really is a little ray of sunshine…I love them both, too.

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  77. says

    Okay. I am a big comic book fan. I freeze framed the episode and can tell you most of the changes. The first is Crisis on Infinite Earths. In our world, Superman holds the dead body of Supergirl. On their world it is reversed.

    Then, Superman 75, the issue where he dies, except instead of a bloody S on a black background, its a bloody bat symbol, so in this world, Batman died here.

    Then Red Lantern/ Red Arrow, who of course are Green here.

    Then The Dark Knight Returns, except its Superman instead of Batman posed in the Lightning.

    Finally, Justice League, but I can’t see close enough to tell what’s different.

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    • mlj102 says

      Just a little heads up to save you the trouble of trying to pause at just the right moment and straining your eyes: If you go to the FOX Fringe website and go down to the pictures section, there’s a set of pictures called “A View of the Other Side” and it includes copies of all of the comic book pictures there…

      That said, thanks for providing the explanation of the differences. I thought the pictures were great, but I’m completely clueless regarding what they should be over here, so it didn’t mean much to me.

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      • says

        Ok. Thanks. Just checked the Fox site. The difference on the Justice League cover is the addition of DC cowboy Jonah Hex in the place of Guy Gardner, a Green Lantern who was on the original cover. Also, it is worth noting that Crisis on Infinite Earths deals completely with the exact type of parallel worlds that Fringe does. In fact, all of the comic covers are from DC Comics, a company which did more to popularize the concept of parallel worlds than any other pop culture property, predating the “evil Enterprise” Star Trek episode by several years, and publishing dozens of these kinds of stories a year from the early 60’s to today.

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  78. ICE-H says

    It just occurred to me that most likely Walter’s old lab assistant Carla Warren didn’t die from accident. I think she was against Walter’s plan about keeping Alt-Peter, and most likely they argued about it and Walter lost control and hit her… maybe the murder itself was accidental, like she fell on something sharp or something like that… And I think that is what pushed Walter to ask William for that brain pieces removal procedure.

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  79. Coco4ever says

    The comic books shown in Peter`s aparment were:
    RED LANTERN/RED ARROW c
    SUPERMAN: THE MAN OF STEEL RETURNS
    CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS #7 (Supergirl’s holding Superman)
    THE DEATH OF BATMAN
    JLI #1 (With Jonah Hex instead of Guy Gadner)

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  80. LMH says

    Just another interesting detail about Peter’s info helicopter ride through NYC. Flying toward Liberty Island, the tour guide voice states that the island was seized via the “revised Eminent Domain provision of the Earth Protection Act of 1989″ which suggests the government over there takes over land through the use of the principle of eminent domain and the fear (or real threat) of fringe threats.
    I like the use of real precedents from our world that are taken further over there through different choices and problems faced. I would like to see more of these interesting details about government practices in future episodes.

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    • LMH says

      Also, I think the nurse at the hospital asked a man ‘if the bees were bigger than a grapefruit’. That’s pretty crazy, I’d be pissed at Walter (and possible others responsible for fringe events on the other side) if I had to deal with giant bees!

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  81. LMH says

    For those who love to find the 47s, there are double 47s on the license plate of our Liv’s car as she pulls up to Walter and Bell with Peter in tow (Altivia must have the same wheels).

    Also Altlivia’s apartment number is 21 (Fibonacci #), and there is a sign for 2222 Gold on the side of one of the buildings right before Peter is shown his fancy new digs (22 as an infinity number discussed previously, also seen most recently that I can recall in “Jacksonville.” Interesting that the numbers are doubled here also.

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  82. says

    So what type of advanced science or technology does our side have that they do not? Walternate said he needed Peter’s help because we had better science than they did. But they obviously have more advanced technology so what do we have? We do have Massive Dynamic so maybe that’s it?

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    • ICE-H says

      Not better, but different. The other side’s development is more militaristic, as many have theorized it is possible that Nazis won the war… so their technological advancement went in different way… and they are unfamiliar with our technologies…

      Or maybe Walternate was just lying, maybe the technology was not from our side, but from observers. And since the control panel was extremely advanced, it is possible that they built it by Williams design, but modified it… William designed it at least 17 years ago, there is very little chance that he could have build device compatible only with specific person… I think it was too soon for that kind of technology, even on fringe…

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    • ICE-H says

      If I’m not mistaken Massive Dynamic’s goal at the beginning was adaptation of technologies from the other side, so their technology must be very similar to the other side’s stuff…
      And even if we assume that it was built by Bell, why he would lock controls to Peter’s DNA?

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    • FringeFan2009 says

      I don’t necessarily think it is advanced, but there must be a specific technology here that has not been developed on the other side that they need. Or maybe, it’s just that they do not have the resources to develop it.

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  83. Alison says

    I know someone has mentioned this before, but with everyone on the other side referring to Peter as “the boy who was kidnapped 20 years ago” instead of 25, that had to of been a deliberate clue from the creators. I wonder what we will discover later about what the five year inconsistency means? Hmmmm…..

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    • ICE-H says

      Maybe Walternate was hiding the fact of Peter’s kidnapping for five years, while he was trying to build a door to the other side, I think he told the world about It only when it was already pointless to hide – when he abandoned his research of door-building.

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  84. degnirf says

    So are we saying that was the real Olivia that kissed peter, coz the switch took place later?

    I’m needing reassurance on this!!

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    • Page 48 says

      Technically, they’re both “real” Olivia, but it was our Olivia that kissed Peter (good thing she didn’t overhear Peter running down her appearance earlier or maybe she wouldn’t have offered).

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  85. knotvod says

    Quick question…just watched it on DVR….may have already been brought up in the 200+ messages, but our world Olivia had a red shirt on, alternate had white, red picked up walter after the grenade, red was on stage when the portal opened, red came back…so, how is it that it’s the alternate olivia now? no way she had time to switch outfits and what are the chances that the alternate olivia had the same powers to open the portal to get back (since bell’s explosion merely amplified her powers, didn’t take the place of)…confused and a bit of a let down with this questions unanswered.

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    • FinChase says

      Well, Bell was knocked unconscious, so he wouldn’t have known what happened. Olivia and AltLiv were both wearing similar pants and boots, so maybe all she had to do was switch shirts and jackets. That wouldn’t have taken long.

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  86. says

    The episode was brilliant up until the switch at the end. That entire scene is completely unrealistic in how it took place. The bomb, the switch of clothes and Olivia. And bell being naive enough to believe 1 of his bomb made a full squad of cops disappear within seconds?

    Also given the fact that Walternate had to take medication and stay in an incubator for God knows how long when he crossed over, Bolivia just walks into the alternate universe looking and feeling totally normal without 1 single bad consequence? And saying she was also treated with Cortexiphan doesn’t make sense. We’ve seen what Cortexifan does to people. And what it’s done to others who’ve crossed over. Also got a full briefing already on the typewriter? When? Completely unsatisfied with the ending.

    Although, I almost had a tear in my eye with Walter’s scene with Bell when he tells him “You took away my life, my wife, my son. etc.”. If John Noble doesn’t win an Emmy this year, there’s no justice in the world.

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    • Page 48 says

      At least we got to see the 10th different way to cross over. Next season, they may try clicking their heels together 3 times as they chant “there’s no place like home”.

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  87. Stefan says

    Really? The “Infiltration-Story-Arc” AGAIN? I mean: AGAIN? Really? Don’t they have any other ideas? Yeah sure it’s a war – but it should be a hot one not a cold one, right? C’mon give us genetic mutants, million-killing viruses, freaky technology and all that stuff – just read some mainstream comics they are all in there. And let me make this clear, I don’t want that stuff because of the action – I want it because it’s a war in a science-fiction show – and there can’t be any space ships and space battles.

    So now for the actual episode:
    Hated Walter – seriously, will this guy ever stop wining about what he’s done, I think I would like him more if he’d just be evil and selfish, because since Jacksonville he’s just been a pain in the ass for me. “your robbed me of my memories!” – robbed? I think the guy lost his memory again because we saw how he looked in Grey Matters and there was nothing like panic in his eyes. “I’ve lost… seventeen years in a mental institution” – yeah and you would deserve another 17 years just for pretending to be the victim in this thing.
    William Bell, well – won’t miss him, won’t be happy for him to be off the show.
    Peter. Suprisingly I have nothing to say that I liked or disliked about him. He was there and it wasn’t bad nor good for me. One thing I noted: either he talked to anyone while checking out the power source- or he belongs in St. Clair’s, because normal people don’t talk out loud what they think! Seriously: Did Stan Lee write this? Oh, no – then it would be “Fringe!”…
    I really loved the scene with the to Olivias that was really emotionally intense. But one thing there is: Alter-William died in a car accident -> Jacksonville-Trials never happened -> Alter-Olivia has no special powers! Shouldn’t Olivia be able to kick her ass? Even if it’s just through her sense to make the right desicion? And why didn’t Olivia just kill her alter-self? Why tie her up? And how the frack did Alter-Olivia get outa there?
    I liked the chemistry of Olivia and Alter-Walter, I think they are going to make some great scenes next season.

    To go back to my criticism on the “Infiltration-Story-Arc”-again thing: That was the big bang of the season finale? Not only that it wasn’t a bang but a drone that we/I heart 10 minutes before it even came – the thing appears more like a big fart to me then a big bang – let’s hope it doesn’t stink to much.
    If Peter and Olivia are in a relationship now, and Alter-Olivia plays along, and let’s say they have sex – I think Peter will see that tattoo thing. And he’s going to know and so on.
    I know there are a lot of people out there that loved this, but Fringe is such an innovative show, dont use the same trope again and again – that’s not keeping up the level of innovation.

    Sorry for the partial harshness of this comment.
    So my rating is 8 – I’ve definately seen better on the Fringe! (What was better? Jacksonville)

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    • LizW65 says

      “One thing I noted: either he talked to anyone while checking out the power source- or he belongs in St. Clair’s, because normal people don’t talk out loud what they think!”

      He was speaking into an old-fashioned reel-to-reel tape recorder that was on the table next to him. :D

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  88. Xochitl says

    I hope, as all of you, that they don’s strech this too much because it wouldn’t be believable, I was rewatching yesterday (because honestly, is there anything else to watch right now?) and even her underwear is wrong, c’mon the guy has seen her almost naked he is going to notice soon, I don’t give them pasta chapter two, i think the plot is going to be more about “how we get olivia back” than “this is our olivia” that I can believe :)

    I was watching the fighthing scene again and thinking “don’t kill her, don’t kill her.” and then at the end I was like “why the hell didn’t you kill her?”

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    • FringeFan2009 says

      Hehe, your funny. Our Olivia has a sense of responsibility. She had no reason to kill her at the time. As a law enforcement officer, I think that her training has taught her to only kill if absolutely necessary, meaning her life or someone elses life is in immediate danger.

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  89. Strathawk says

    Hi there all. Not sure if anyone is interested, but I thought I’d save ya’ll the time. I thought maybe I could glean some revelations from what the keyboard typed in the mirror at the end of the episode (or at least the first part which we could actually see). After alt-Olivia asks for her orders, the typewriter starts typing as can be seen in the mirror. While you can see what’s going on, you’ll notice the typewriter types, “ORDERS ARE” But before we can glean anymore, we cut to a shot of alt-Olivia as she reads the details of her orders. I guess we’ll have to wait until Fall to see what her orders are. Just an FYI.

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  90. LizW65 says

    OK, having had some time to process this episode, I’ve come up with what may or may not be a plot hole you can drive a truck through, and I’m hoping somebody can explain this for me:

    If Walternate’s primary motivation so far has been to get Peter back so he can hook him up to his machine, then why, at the end, did he he change tactics and send Alt-Olivia to our world? Shouldn’t he just have ordered his Fringe team to kill everyone from Our Side at the theater and grab Peter back by any means necessary?

    The only possible explanation I can come up with for this (other than “if he did that there wouldn’t be any more show”) is that for the device to work, Peter had to be a willing participant. Now that he knew what it does and that is no longer a possibility, Walternate had to drop back and punt, and grabbed our Olivia instead to use as a bargaining chip. Anyone?

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    • says

      I dont’ think Walter is a mustache twirling villain with a black soul. I don’t think he could force his son to do anything against his well, especially destroy a universe. I think once it was clear Peter wasn’t going for it, he changed tactics. This is his son after all. I know he’s a pretty amoral guy when it comes to his mission to save his world, but I don’t think he’s that evil as to force his son to be a human engine of a WMD. You’ll notice he gives Peter a choice to come with him too. If he really only wanted him to power the machine and not to renew their father son relationship, he’d have simply kidnapped him in Northwest Passage.

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    • fedorafadares says

      My awful, heartless speculation on Walternate’s capture of Olivia/dispatch of Altlivia:

      Walternate saw the obvious attraction Peter had for AltLivia and recognized it was really a displaced attraction — his son loved Olivia. So, Olivia is bait to get his son back.

      As for AltLivia in our world, I think her orders will be to seduce Peter and — since it appears to be a GENETIC something that makes Peter special — she should procure some of his DNA. Does Walternate hope to procure a grandchild through AltLivia the old-fashioned way for use in the machine? Some DNA to clone his son?

      Although this is a horrible thought, I think Walternate is the real mad man. He a jumble of confusion: love/ambition/protectiveness of his world/revenge-monging.

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  91. Anjali says

    Okay. So this my theory.

    I feel that Walternate doesn’t really have a use for our Olivia. I mean, how could he know that she’s a cortexiphan subject? I doubt he even knows what cortexiphan even is.

    I think he kidnapped her only so that Alt-Olivia could infiltrate our team.

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    • kittyofdoom says

      I think that’s a fairly legit reason. What else is he going to do with Olivia besides confine her? She can’t go rushing after Alt-Olivia or that spoils his plan.

      Admittedly, he could kill her, but I think he doesn’t because a) we’re only two seasons in! No killing off main characters yet plz! and more importantly b) if Walternate leans a little more to the nefarious side, he can use Olivia to bring Peter back into his universe and coerce him into powering the Wave Sink. Peter doesn’t comply = bad stuff happens to Liv. I think in Walternate’s eyes Olivia definitely has potential uses.

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      • SF says

        Agreed also, but I think we’ve forgotten one clue: William said all communication was being monitored on the other side. That means that if Nina’s latest communique was intercepted, all her other ones were too. And she tells William about the clone kids in the earlier episode this season (sorry I’ve forgotten the title of it), the one with Tyler. And she says in Pt One that she’s been communicating with him all along not knowing if he got them because he has no way to communicate back. I definitely think she’s been telling him all about Olivia from the beginning, and the other cortexikids (love this short form! lol). So Walternate would know that Olivia had an ability. I do wonder if he knows what it is – did Nina tell Bell, since she knew Olivia can travel across the universes? She does say it to Olivia – how does Nina know unless Bell told her at some point about the trials and what they learned about Olivia back when she was a child?

        However, I do like your suggestion and agree that he is using Olivia to trap Peter or get him back to the altside. Olivia does have uses. I really am haunted by her being in that dark room, though.

        What happened in her bedroom when she lit the fire? I think Nina knows, let’s hope so, because Walter isn’t saying and Bell is dead. I’m hoping Olivia remembers finally, because now she’s back in a locked dark room, sitting in the same position she had as a child in the video. Maybe Walternate is trying to activate her, though I don’t really think so. I think she will disappear, and I can hardly wait for the reaction on his face when she does!

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  92. Fred says

    Did anyone else pick up that Walter asked Bell to remove parts of his brain (at least according to Bell)? Bell said that Walter asked him to remove parts of his brain because he was starting to change. I got the impression that he was starting to become more like Walternate.

    If so, this implies that Waltnernate is perhaps primarily internally motivated by the “dark” side of his nature and is not seeking revenge on Waltner (i.e. not externally motivated). In other words, it is inevitable that his genius will desend into madness without intervention. This also implies that Walter could have become like Walternate except for the operation that Bell did to him.

    Did anyone else come away with this impression?

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  93. ICE-H says

    The very end of episode was kind of difficult to accept, the way they returned… And then I thought “What if William Bell found a way of activating the cortexifan abilities at any age and for some reason he wanted to keep his discovery a secret?”. Maybe it was William who opened the door, maybe it was his plan since the restaurant scene… It is the only way they could have returned without Olivia.

    I think people who say that Alt-Olivia opened the door are mistaken, because she just found out about existence of the other side, so even if she is a cortexifan kid, she didn’t have time to learn how to use her ability….

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  94. Jim A says

    Here are a bunch of tid bits to chew on:
    THe Matrix is all over Fringe. Red pill vs blue pill. Truth & Reality or Lies & Unreality. Altivia has red hair and the sink deliberately looked bloodied as Olivia transformed herself into Altivia with haircutting (think Samson) and red hair dye.
    The Observers are dressed just like Matrix Agents and have no emotions. Agents in Matix are demonic (of darkness). Observers are angelic (of light).
    Peter is the One. He is Neo. We are Peter.
    We are asleep and need to be woken, we have been kidnapped, we are lost, we are fatherless, we have latent undiscovered powers, we are unique, we are called, we are essential, we belong with those who love us, not those who want to use us.
    The name of the Opera House is Morpheum…. a place to morph or change. THere is a big nod to Battlestar Galactica: Opera House, the seven columns, the final five, All Along the Watchtower (apocalyptic music)
    The Red Lantern vs the Green Lantern, Red being evil and associated with hell.
    THe big themes: Heaven vs Hell, Good vs evil, and God vs devil, Kingdom of Light vs Kingdom of Darkness, Giving vs Greed: A big recurring nod to Lost, also created by J “Jacob” Abrams. His Biblical (Jewish) worldview permeates most of his creative work.
    JJ is a big democrat contributor ($185k) and loves all those democrat presidents all over Fringe. I don’t like his politics but I love his creativity.

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  95. DB says

    So, is Altliv a shape shifter? or is she just the alternate olive. Also who are the shape shifters getting orders from. Walternate?

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  96. JB says

    Re: Who is “The One” in FRINGE–I would more likely say Olivia is the “Matrix/Neo” Hero. She is the “Special” one who is going on a hero’s journey. Peter will help, but he is not the central hero here. And speaking of “politics”, I for one am glad to finally see a lead female hero being depicted as a fully developed character. As the X-Files based “Scully” on Jodie Foster’s FBI agent in Silence of the Lambs, then Fringe’s “Olivia” takes this character into the new century.

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  97. RS says

    Still confused:

    Alternate Olive doesn’t have any “gift.” She can’t open a crack which the device holds open for their return. Ergo, while I understand the plot twist for dramatic reasons, I cannot reconcile it with any in-universe explanation.

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