2.18 The Man From The Other Side


NEWTON AND SHAPE-SHIFTERS RETURN ON AN ALL-NEW “FRINGE”
THURSDAY, APRIL 22, ON FOX

When two teenagers on a date turn up “dead” at an abandoned warehouse with the three puncture wounds to the soft palate – a trademark of the shape-shifters – the Fringe team investigates the evidence as well as the motives of mastermind Newton. Upon discovering a shape-shifting embryo, Walter returns to the lab to conduct further analysis, and Olivia and Peter head to Massive Dynamic for answers. Meanwhile, Peter reveals a family secret to Olivia as Walter struggles to recall what Newton knows about “building a door” in the all-new “The Man from the Other Side” episode of FRINGE airing Thursday, April 22 (9:00-10:00 PM ET/PT) on FOX. (FR 2.18) (TV-14 L, V).

Cast: Anna Torv as Olivia Dunham; Joshua Jackson as Peter Bishop; John Noble as Walter Bishop; Lance Reddick as Phillip Broyles; Blair Brown as Nina Sharp; Jasika Nicole as Astrid Farnsworth.

Guest Cast: Sebastian Roché as Thomas Jerome Newton; Ryan McDonald as Brandon; Peter Bryant as Ben McCalister; James Pizzinato as Dave; Katie Findlay as Jill; Shawn MacDonald as Daniel Verona; James Tsai as David Wu.

The Man From The Other Side Promo:

2.18 "The Man From The Other Side" Rating

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Comments

  1. Elaine says

    I’m so excited to see this episode. Unfortunately, I won’t be able to watch it live…but I’ll get to watch it shortly after it airs, though. Yay, me! :-)

    Happy watching for all who do get to watch as it airs.

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  2. Anjali says

    I am shaking!!! WHAT AN EPISODE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I need to gather my thoughts, stop shaking and then come here and write down everything later.

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  3. Audrey says

    as Broyles said, ” One day you’ll have 1,000 new answers but, you’ll have 1,001 more questions.” this episode was amazing!

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  4. Cody says

    I think the special effect team deserves a bravo! The shape-shifter coming out his “cocoon” was just jaw dropping!

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  5. MRG says

    Seriously!! Who! How!! Where???? What did I miss????? Is it my imagination, or is each episode getting better and better??

    You know, before this episode I was a little worried about next weeks episode, but now I am beginning to think we may get some more clues through Walter’s subconcious “story”. Can’t it be next thursday now?

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  6. Bishop Takes Queen says

    John Noble is the finest actor on TV (at least to me). That ending was absolutely tense…

    I’ve been pretty hopeful concerning next week’s offbeat episode, but now it feels like a speed bump in the midst of this amazing string of episodes. Still, I know it will be great. The production team has been on a tear.

    Lastly…
    *SPOILER* ahead

    The “secretary” that was in Newton’s care…his nose and hand looked as if they belonged to a Mr. Nimoy. Did anyone else come away thinking the same thing?

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    • says

      I don’t think it’s Belly, because Newton was talking to him about the effects of crossing over, and Belly would already know. My money’s on Walter.

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          • charliefan19 says

            THAT WOULD ROCK!!!!! I will love Fringe forever. I thought maybe it was Nimoy but that it was very unlikely Newton would have to tell him about the crossover effects. We saw a hand and a nose, right? Comparisons, anyone? Haha!

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            • LMH says

              That looked like Walter’s nose to me. I know that’s a bit of a stab in the dark with so little to go on, but the following scene had Walter in profile (in the kitchen) and it could be a match, plus skin color of the hand…watch those two scenes together again.

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      • Alison says

        I thought it was Walter too, but that is probably what the producers are expecting us to think. I find it hard to believe that it would have taken Walternate “25 years” to orchestrate this whole thing. Anyone think it could be the other William Bell (or Bellternate)? I mean we haven’t had any insight on what happened to him, or whether he’s dead or alive. Also, about the effects of crossing over thing, “Bellternate” probably hasn’t crossed over before. But that still leaves the question of what he’s here for. Maybe Walter and him could have a showdown! Two great minds pitted against each other! I’m sure Peter will end up meeting one of the Bells soon, assuming the real Bell isn’t dead or something, even though we saw him near the beginning of the season. Who knows? ;)

        I did think the man was Walter at first but, as I explained above, it doesn’t all make sense. Then again, that’s pretty much what the show’s based around isn’t it? LOL XD

        My second guess is that it’s someone who has not been introduced yet. Although the one thing that makes me doubt that is the fact that they didn’t show his face. Obviously they wouldn’t have kept his identity a secret unless it was someone we’ve seen before. Hmmmm…….I could dwell on this forever and still not get any further. :)

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    • Flip says

      The man on the table was “Walternate”, he’s orchestrating the “Invasion” to get the son that was kidnapped all those years ago.

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  7. says

    This episode was fucking phenomenal. Fringe is back.

    John Noble and Joshua Jackson are PERFECT together. From calling him Dad to hating his guts… holy shit. I love Fringe.

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    • MRG says

      I know. I think knowing that by the end of the show Peter was going to hate Walter made the moment he called him Dad all the more poignant.

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      • mlj102 says

        Ever since they revealed that Peter had died as a child in the Season 1 finale, I have suspected that they were going to have Peter call Walter “dad” before he found out the truth. I just had a feeling that’s what they would do. But even though I had predicted it, I was still unprepared for how completely devastating the contrast would be: in a relatively short space of time, we went from Peter calling him “dad” to, telling him forcefully that “I’m not your son.” Completely heartbreaking!

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  8. bdp says

    This episode was amazing. I mean hell, the episode could have been 15-20 minutes long, only showing the bridge/peter’s revelation and it still would have been some of the best tv possible. When Olivia showed up at the end, I knew Peter was going to be gone from the hospital already but as much as I want to see the Peter/Walter backlash, I’m just as intrigued about Peter and Olivia because, as was evidenced, Peter has no idea Olivia knew and he still seemed very fond of her when he woke up. Should be interesting.

    And I have to say, sure they didn’t involve any singing, but next weeks episode promo actually looked like it could be very entertaining and hopefully they’ll continue the trend of throwing in some really important reveals that they’ve been doing ever since the return from the lowatus.

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    • LizW65 says

      “I’m just as intrigued about Peter and Olivia because, as was evidenced, Peter has no idea Olivia knew and he still seemed very fond of her when he woke up. Should be interesting.”

      Not necessarily. As my signifigant other pointed out when we were watching last night, it was Olivia who came out with the line about the Charles River absorbing the excess energy from the crossover–which Olivia had no way of knowing unless she’d had prior communication with Walter on the subject. Also, Peter noticed she’d been acting oddly ever since Jacksonville, and if he was able to put two and two together in the few minutes since he woke up to the time he confronted Walter, he likely realized Olivia was privy to the secret as well.

      While this was an excellent episode, it felt a little rushed to me, as there was so much material to get through in a limited amount of time. It’s too bad they couldn’t have made it a two parter and forgone the musical interlude altogether–although from next week’s promos “Brown Betty” did look quite interesting. Was that a toothpick Peter had in his mouth? It looked too tiny to be a cigarette, which is what I’d have expected from a ’40′s-style film noir.

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      • kfreels says

        I just finally watched this episode. I had missed several and waited for them to come out on DVD and now I’m catching up.

        Olivia knew about the lake because Walter told her the whole story about him going over to cure Peter and why he chose the lake. She also connected the previous encounter with the lake as well. She’s smart and I even figured it was the lake, not the park. :-) The surprise wasn’t that Olivia figured out the lake. It’s that Peter didn’t.

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    • Jodie says

      I don’t think that scene in the hospital between Peter and Olivia showed that Peter was still fond of Olivia. When Peter wakes up his expression is scary. My husband thought for a split second that he woke up on the other side. Then I think that Peter decided not to have it out with Olivia and his game-face came on: when he wants to manipulate someone, Peter always does that smile of his. So the smile comes on and then as soon as possible he asks to talk to Walter. Olivia was confused and nervous. It was chilling to see that much hatred.

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      • Xochitl says

        He knows! That expression on Peter’s eyes when he wakes up in the hospital gave it away, he knows Olivia knows, it kinda conforts me that he didn’t confront her about it, maybe he is going to try to process it and realize Olivia kept the secret for a good reason, but then again, the fact that he checked himself out of the hospital (I expected him to do) and didn’t tell Olivia sounds like a no no for the moment.

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      • Elaine says

        I had the same feeling. In fact, I realized after the end of that scene I was clutching my hands in tight fists against my chest in uncomfortableness. My sister used the word seething anger…and you could see it in his face, but especially in his voice.

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        • Xochitl says

          “My sister used the word seething anger”

          I coulnd’t find the words to describe and that’s it, really, the only thing that was missing there was “Sweetheart” and he would have given himself away, now, why did he not scream to Olivia? By the way, Oliva knew he knew

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  9. Elaine says

    I don’t even know where to begin. Amazing…simply amazing storytelling. Once again, Fringe excels at allowing the emotions of the characters to propel the story foward. During the entire episode, I felt this incredible sense of dred when Peter would discover the truth, and couldn’t have predicted, even with seeing the promo at the end of ‘White Tulip’ (which came into play in a major way during this episode) the circumstances surrounding how he’d find out.

    Nice touch by the writers utilizing a similar image from ‘Earthling’ with the shadow man (now those S2 cast photos make more sense) with whom I’m assuming was Walternate walking over to our universe. It was also a call back to ‘Peter’ and the imagery of Walter and alt/Peter walking between worlds. Fathers crossing between worlds to retrieve their lost son.

    Then there was the confrontation scene…Josh was on his game. He could have totally blown it easily, but I think he may have done his finest work to date with the gradual anger that crept into his voice as the resentment as he struggled to control his emotions from what had to be overwhelming sense of betrayal. Then to his venonmous tone when he tells Walter he wasn’t his father…great job by Mr. Jackson.

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    • LMH says

      Agreed. Josh was awesome and that was a make or break scene on his part. He did a fantastic job, especially in having to match and oppose John Noble’s expressions.
      Josh seems particularly good at portraying the underlying rage at the center of Peter’s character. Peter is so intense as we’ve seen in the past, and I think the juxtoposition b/w that aspect of Peter’s character and the more affable, soft Peter we’ve seen recently is very powerful. Peter has come so far only to be pushed over the edge by those he finally came to trust and deeply invest in emotionally. I’m sure Josh is appreciating his role as Peter even more now.

      (SPOILER?!) I think we’ll see a true emotional breakdown given the gasping for breath and “man tears” hinted at. I’m HOPING “Brown Betty” has some glimpses into where Peter is but who knows if we’re going to be switching in and out of Walter’s fantasy world or not (that seems a bit much for one episode, but then again look at this one!). I was a little excited about the musical to see what they could do with it but it might be a little too off center and light-hearted coming off of this one. Again who knows.

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  10. Elaine says

    One final thought as I try to go to sleep…if John Noble doesn’t win an Emmy for his portrayal of Walter, I’m going to stop wearing a bra. And I can promise you, no one wants that! ;-) No, actually…while Noble absolutely broke my heart during that scene with Peter in the hospital…Torv just about destroyed me when Olivia comes in to tell Walter Peter’s checked out three hours prior. He’s not answering his phone and that he’s just gone. You could literally see her face breaking under the surface…positively heartbreaking.

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    • mlj102 says

      “You could literally see her face breaking under the surface…positively heartbreaking.”

      It’s interesting that you say that, because I felt her reaction was entirely too mellow — I could barely sense any feeling from Olivia at all. I’ve often praised Anna Torv for the way she communicates so much emotion simply by her facial expressions, but in this case there didn’t seem to be any emotion at all.

      Maybe I just need to watch the ending again, but I found her behavior to be rather odd. I can understand that she would try to put on a good face for Walter, but she seemed to show almost no emotion whatsoever. For someone who still chokes up when she talks about what happened to Charlie, I would have expected more than just a simple, composed manner as she delivered the bad news to Walter. I expected her to seem a little more distraught, a little more like she had just lost someone incredibly important to her. We know full well how much Olivia cares about Peter — whether it’s in a romantic way or not, her feelings for him run very deep and I think it’s safe to say that there is no one in her life right now who she cares about more than she does Peter. That said, her reaction when she told Walter that Peter was gone was too controlled and accepting. She seemed more like a doctor who has to reveal bad news to the loved ones of a patient: while the doctor is still sad to have to deliver such bad news, they are also typically impartial and indifferent because the patient isn’t someone they personally care about. But Peter is someone Olivia cares about, so that kind of reaction just doesn’t fit.

      Actually, it made me wonder if Olivia might in fact be in contact with Peter. As far as we know, Peter is angry at Walter because of what he did, not because he kept it a secret. That said, even if he did figure out that Olivia knew and didn’t tell him, I think he’s so angry at Walter that he would dismiss her role in it as insignificant. And if he didn’t know that Olivia knew about the secret, there would definitely be no reason for him to cut himself off from her, so I would think he would contact her instead of just disappearing. He’s angry with Walter — not the whole team. Why would he refuse to talk to any of them just because he doesn’t want to be in contact with Walter? Given how he feels for them — especially Olivia — I would think he would at least contact her to say goodbye or something. I just wonder if Olivia had talked with Peter after Walter left, and he told her that he didn’t want anything to do with Walter, and so they sent her to essentially convey that message.

      I don’t know — maybe it’s just wishful thinking on my part. But there was just something in the way Olivia was acting that didn’t fit with the concept that she’d just found out that her closest friend is nowhere to be found. It would make sense if she was in contact with him and helping him to get some space from Walter. She already knows the secret. She would understand Peter’s reaction. She would be a logical person to serve as the “go-between” between Peter and Walter.

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      • Arun says

        You’ve thought a lot about this, so I don’t want to stick my thumb in your cake, but could it be that though Peter is angry at Walter, he’s also feeling extreme pain because of his “lost” childhood, losing the woman he thought was his mother, and now his other parents too? He’s just run away, and probably enveloped in a load of feelings that don’t quite make sense. I wouldn’t want to talk to anyone either, and maybe he thought that if he were to talk to Olivia, she would tell Walter. Or he knows as well as anyone working in/with the FBI that she could probably track the call.
        And I think Olivia is putting on a very brave face because if she breaks down, Walter will too. I think perhaps she’s trying to protect herself from her own fear of losing Peter, the way she protects herself from developing a fear of anything else. That’s my theory. c:
        I’m sure there will be lots of tears and emotion later, because there has to be a reunion, definitely.

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        • mlj102 says

          “You’ve thought a lot about this, so I don’t want to stick my thumb in your cake,”

          :) No worries, I’m not offended that you disagree — I’m glad you shared your opinion on the matter. I realize that, actually, it’s highly unlikely that my theory could actually be true. You’re very right that Peter could just be all around angry and want to be alone for awhile. I’m really not disputing that — my theory was based more off of Olivia’s reaction when she told Walter the news. And I guess you could very well be right that she’s just protecting herself — but if she is, she’s doing a much better job of it than I would expect her to be able to do. Yes, she’s good at putting up those walls and hiding her feelings, but when she’s just had a very personal blow, it typically shows somewhat and she comes across rather vulnerable. But this reaction just seemed rather hollow, like something was missing and wasn’t as emotional as I would have expected from Olivia or Anna Torv, so I was wondering if she purposely downplayed it for a reason.

          I guess a lot of it is open to interpretation and speculation at the moment. Actually, I’m somewhat annoyed that the ending seemed a bit rushed — we had Peter finding out, then Olivia telling Walter Peter’s gone, plus the whole cryptic scene between Newton and the unknown Secretary, all within, what, the last five minutes? That’s kind of a lot, and I would have liked to see a little more substance to the reactions and the reveal. Though maybe there will be more of that in the upcoming episode(s)…

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          • Xochitl says

            I love your comments! I also noticed some kind of coldness in Olivia, and I never used that word with her, what I was thinking is that she went ahead to the hospital, so probably Walter had already told Olivia that Peter found out, that gives us some time, maybe, and Olivia’s has cried once on the whole show, went to have her breakdown away before relaying the new to Walter, now I don’t expect her to have had a big breakdown, more like just let the news sink in, because she already expected this and knew this would come, so maybe she comes as unemotional because she is just accepting the true and because if she as much let’s herself even touch a fiber of emotion inside her she is going to break down HARD! and she still has a job to do, the war is coming, she has to keep Walter out of St. Claire’s and look for Peter, because she is going to look for Peter for sure.

            “Actually, I’m somewhat annoyed that the ending seemed a bit rushed — we had Peter finding out, then Olivia telling Walter Peter’s gone, plus the whole cryptic scene between Newton and the unknown Secretary, all within, what, the last five minutes? That’s kind of a lot, and I would have liked to see a little more substance to the reactions and the reveal. Though maybe there will be more of that in the upcoming episode(s)…”

            I’m so happy I’m not the only one who thought that, really, I watch the episodes at an internet cafe, when I watched Jacksonville I forgot to pack a bag of Kleenex, I was crying, I came prepared this time and I just didn’t feel a thing, I felt like the episode was incredible slow to get to a point, because we already knew Peter would found out in this one, and all the information at the end and I was really looking forward to the emotional reponses of everyone, we just got a glimpse of that, really, if we don’t have the confrontation scene I’m gonna be very dissapointed.

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            • Alison says

              You know, to me I feel that Olivia isn’t surprised by this, especially due to how he found out, and she probably feels that Peter has a right to run away. I mean come on, something big like this happens and he takes off? He’s just reverting back to his roots, his old ways. What does Peter think he can do when he probably can’t emotionally confront everyone right now. I’m sure Olivia understands that, but breaking down is not going to help her or Walter, and it’s not going to help find Peter. I found her reaction to be what I had expected.

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      • Elaine says

        I think perhaps Olivia’s reaction was meant to be understated when you think about how she’s struggled with this secret initially, then eventually tried to distance herself from it over the course of the past two episodes.

        Olivia’s always played her emotions close to the vest, and we’ve only seen her breakdown a handful of times. Perhaps we’ll discover that she does know where Peter is, and has a way in which to contact him…which could explain why her reaction was so composed. Even if we don’t, I felt Olivia’s pull together deliver until she uttered the words, “He’s gone,” which is where I perceived that break…her reaction came across, imo, as typical Olivia.

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        • mlj102 says

          I wasn’t expecting a full breakdown, complete with tears and everything — I was just expecting something. Usually I can pick up on the subtle emotion in Anna Torv’s performance, but this one just seemed so stoic and almost robotic… I’m not blaming Anna Torv, as I imagine that’s how she was told to portray the scene — I just thought her reaction would have a little more emotion in it. I mean, I sensed more emotion from her in the scene when Peter told her about his mother’s death/suicide than I got in that final scene with Walter. As I said in another response, I know Olivia is good at hiding her true emotions, but this was just a little too expertly protected for having just lost someone so close to her. Yes, she has been trying to distance herself, but she is still very emotionally invested in the whole matter, so I just thought her reaction would convey that a little more of that than it did.

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          • Elaine says

            Oh, no, I wasn’t suggesting you did. Had she broken down in tears, it would have been, imo, out of character. Her buttoned down reaction may have had more to do with wanting to be solid for Walter. If anyone knows how very fragile Walter is at the moment, it’s the person who’s shared this devastating secret with him for the past couple of weeks.

            I think it’s also important to keep in mind that unlike how Olivia lost John and Charlie, Peter isn’t dead…he’s intentionally missing, and she knows why. I guess I can see why Olivia reactions would lean more towards stoic and unemotional because she very much doesn’t want to fall apart given that she still gets choked up about mentioning Charlie’s name, and this is just one more blow to her personally–and it could simply be too much, so she’s doing what she notorious for doing…detaching emotionally.

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            • LizW65 says

              To me, her reaction was of numb resignation, as if she’d been playing this scene over and over in her mind for the last several weeks and fully expecting Peter to leave without a word to anyone once he learned the truth.

              One other thought–Olivia is in the FBI; if she really wanted to track down and locate Peter she has the resources to do so pretty easily, probably within hours, so her final line, “He’s gone” struck me as a little pat. It suggests to me that she must recognize his need for space at this time and will resist any attempts to find him–or, as mlj suggested, that the two are in collusion, though I’m inclined to doubt this theory.

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              • LMH says

                I think once Olivia really thought it over she’d realize Peter would go AWOL and resume his nomadic tendencies as that is how he deals with his problems. This is such a massive hit that he would regress back to his old ways. She would prepare herself accordingly, and she may have realized the implications soon after talking to Peter in the hospital and his asking to talk to Walter alone. To me, Peter turned into ‘old Peter’ again. Though of course we know because of his experiences with Walter & Olivia he is not the same person, in getting pushed off the edge like that people tend to resort to their old ways. I think this is all fairly psychologically consistent with the characters so far. Olivia’s taken blow after blow, and she may be convinced she’ll see/find Peter again but there may be more dread for that over-weighing her missing him. She seems more stoic overall in season 2 from my perspective and that may be because of all the things she’s had to deal with. Peter’s leaving is terrible but again he is out there and there’s hope for a “beginning of the mend” ; )

                Better hope for that too since we know Peter is necessary in defending the Gate. Can’t wait to think more about how this episode might shed light on that!

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          • Joe Curwen says

            I agree with you. I don’t fault the actress though. It’s the job of the director to make sure that the audience understands how the character is emotionally handling such an important event.

            We got no real information from Torv’s performance on how she felt about something they’ve been leading up to for many episodes. I was disappointed with this aspect of the episode, it was a major mistake.

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  11. tested says

    I tend to think the “secretary” is William Bell. (we’ll presume he means the guy is a cabinet secretary) Keep in mind, there are 2 William Bell’s just like there are two Walters and two Olivias.

    Would the “secretary” Bell know what the Bell from our universe knows about going from one universe to the other? Maybe not.

    I also think it is far more likely for an industrialist like Bell to be a cabinet secretary than for a pure scientists like Bishop.

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  12. Bryan Levangie says

    C’mon guys. The guy at the end who is on the oxygen mask is Walter from the other side. He is coming to get his son back! It’s the perfect script!

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    • mlj102 says

      My problem with the theory that Walternate’s only goal is to get Peter back is that the timeline doesn’t make sense. Walter and Walternate are both brilliant scientists — if Walternate was trying to get his son back, why has it taken him twenty-five years to finally get over here to get his son? You’d think if he wanted his son back, he would have immediately come here to get him — certainly while his son was still a child, not a grown man. There has to be something else going on…

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      • König says

        May be he couldn’t do it without causing too much damage. May be it’s like a spleen, once you have cracked it you should be damn careful. Or it’s just that Walternate had more consciousness as a scientist than Walter. Or may be he was so mad with grief that he went to St Clairenate for some time.

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      • Page 48 says

        mlj102 said: “Walter and Walternate are both brilliant scientists — if Walternate was trying to get his son back, why has it taken him twenty-five years to finally get over here to get his son?”

        That was also one question nagging at me, why would it take Walternate so long to work out a method of coming over to this side? Not only is the timing way out of sync with Walter “stealing” Peternate, but contrast the ease with Walter crossed over and came back with Peternate (decades ago) with the degree of difficulty and stress on the body that the Secretary (Walternate??) has had to put up with.

        Peternate was able to withstand (with the exception of a 1.5 day blackout) the same event that vapourized the FBI agent, yet the well being of the Secretary, presumably caught up in the same event, seems to be in some doubt.

        If I had to choose a method of crossing over and returning, I’m going to have to go with Walter’s older method rather than having to engage a whole team of shapeshifters to cross over, kill a whack of people, set up all these triangulations, kill some more people, and then bring me over in a near catastrophic condition.

        Maybe Peternate was ultimately raised by the smarter mad scientist.

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        • 7063keisha says

          it probably took walternate so many years to try to crossover to get peternate back because walter said that the alternate universe and the original universe are just sligthly different and maybe the walternate also went to st. claires in the alternate universe for the same amount of years as walter did while he was in st.claires.

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  13. ApplesBananasRhinoceros says

    One Walter took LSD and hunted for alternate worlds, the other Walter buckled down and became a brilliant biologist. One discovered the portal to said universe and became insane while the other was searching for a cure for his son. So I think 25 years to track his son down is not that long of time…

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  14. Peaches says

    white tulip absolutely blew me away. i havent seen a better episode of fringe. John Noble is so amazing, and plays his character so endearingly.
    Tonights episode was amazing too, because the fit has finally hit the shan, so to speak.
    I too was a little taken aback at my harsh peter was with his father when he found out. i suppose walter was right about peter taking the news very badly.
    one small observation/question. has peter forgotten that olivia is/was able to identify items from the other side? which would mean that she,, too, knew he was from the other side and chose not to tell him. if he is furious at walter, i would think he’d be pretty upset with olivia as well.
    i definitely think its walternate, aka the secretary who came through. which is why the shape shifter apologized to walter, presumably for having failed his mission

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  15. Frobozz says

    Mind-blowingly good episode. Makes me all the more angry we have to wait two damn weeks to get back on the plot again (stupid musical…grrr. Wonder if Glee is going to do a Fringe tribute episode…oh of course not…a musical throw-away gets more promotion than the regular episodes).

    One point about the “secretary”…at first I assumed it was an official government name of some sort…but it’s not…think about it…the reverse-typewriter in the mirror. Typing…secretary. Whomever the “secretary” is, he’s the guy on the other side typing his orders to the shape-shifters in all caps. I have no idea who it could be but it’s either Alter-Bell or Alter-Walter. This was the event that OUR Bell wanted Olivia to prevent, after all. I’m betting it’s Alter-Walter.

    Which is interesting if you look at Walter’s lab notes from Season 1 for “Equation”…he’s having a typewritten conversation with someone who types in all caps. He also makes references to “the boy” that don’t mesh with the genius kid from the story…i think he’s talking about Peter.

    Open questions:
    - how did Newton end up decapitated on our side? Who put his head in cryo?
    - why does the shapeshifter “door” not resemble in any way what Walter did in “Peter”? And yet David Robert Jones’ door DID.
    - what other ways are there to “cross”? The shape-shifters do it quite violently. Bell’s method is far inferior to Walter’s.
    - If Newton’s door was based on Walter’s door, how come Walter never had to go through decompression after his trip to the other side and back?

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    • LizW65 says

      “If Newton’s door was based on Walter’s door, how come Walter never had to go through decompression after his trip to the other side and back?”

      Didn’t Bell mention that only a handful of people could cross over without adverse effects? From what we’ve seen thus far, those people seem to include Walter, Peter, and Olivia. (Oh, and the shapeshifters, but they’re not fully human.)

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  16. Elaine says

    So, if the person Newton brought over is the “Secretary”, then wouldn’t that title suggest there’s a boss or president that’s yet to be woven into the story?

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  17. MikeMIke says

    Do you think that if Peter knew that Walter saved his life by bringing him here he’d feel differently, or if he knew that Walter intended to take him back until his Peter’s Mom stepped?

    I wonder if Peter will change his feelings if he knows the whole truth and not just “you stole me from over there, you killed my mother, you are not my father.”

    MM

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    • Xochitl says

      Maybe he will, but first he needs to listen and that is going to take some convincing arguments, even then I have the feeling that Peter’s mother (the real one) is going to have to do with Peter forgiving Walter

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  18. JustForFun says

    You know what, enjoy the end of this season there will not have a third, because they spend all the budget in special effects for this episode ! LOL

    The shape-shipter “cocoon” was freaky. He’s a machine not entirely human but what an horrible way to die. Well in Fringe there is many competition for that : genetic monster attack, worms, violent toxin etc… But here, this is the worse… poor guy.

    Great episode again but i don’t understand why it’s so complicate to cross for the people from the other side. It seems it was easier for Walter.

    And who is the “Secretary” ? Suspens… but i think it’s maybe Walternate.

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  19. Kit94 says

    Absolutely amazing episode! I was moved by when Peter called Walter “dad” but should have realized what was to come. I loved John Noble’s portrayal of Walter when Peter said that “you’re not my dad”. It was heartbreaking.
    I also noticed a tribute to Star Wars. On the second FBI SUV that pulled up during the shooting match the license plate read 1C3PO1. Loved how they threw that in there.
    I need to go back and rewatch the episode to leek at the hand and nose of the “secretary”.

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  20. catherine says

    all i know is that there are two worlds. our world and theirs. the walter on this side from waht i saw in the episode “peter” was more loved by the son coz in our world peter gave walter his most favourable posession the coin while on the other side peter gave it to the mother. and also the way alternate elizabeth said to walter “bring back my son” mad eme think that things were not that good between alternate water and elizabeth.

    i know that walter on the other side was busy making the cure for peter but m sure the wife would have told him that the son was missing, y take this long to go for him. i get the feeling this walter loved peter more than the alternate walter. i think that once peter gets to seat down and listen to walter he might just see things from his side. not forgive him but understand.

    it also got me thinking, does that mean that the peter that died was going to be a sweet non careless boy coz this peter is at times.
    on my side i cried the way walter ran into the hospital room like a kid in a candy store……that man has so much love for his son it admirable. the actor deserves an Emmy. i died for him when peter said you are not my father. when a few days ago he was…………….MAN THAT WAS ONE SAD EPISODE.

    peter side i understand coz he feels betrayed and fooled. n i think that he does know that olivia knows its just the way he looked at her in the moment he woke up. he was angry but could not really tell her so he hid it.

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  21. Danielle says

    I didn’t actually think this episode was as good as the last. I thought it was pretty predictable after the metaphor-that-wasn’t-really-a-metaphor about “tearing a man apart”. Peter’s reaction kind of felt anti climatic for me, I mean I understand why they’ve done it like that, but I wish he’d found out a different way rather than working it out on his own and not even letting Walter explain. Where do you guys think Peter’s run off to?
    As for the secretary, I think it’s Bell for some reason. Pretty sure my suspicions have something to do with the breathing thing and if you squint, when he grabs Newtons hand, it kinda looks like the Vulcan hand gesture for half a second. If you squint hard. Although I do agree that it could and probably will be Walternate.

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  22. Xochitl says

    I think the secretary is Walternate, the shapeshifter hold WAlter’s hand in the lab, and is the same gesture the secretary made with Newton.

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  23. Brent Mitchell says

    I was wondering the same thing. I said to myself “self that might be walternate that’s coming thru from the other side” that would be awesome. But Olivia would be the only one to tell the difference. So i don’t think it’s him, also Walternate was more of Genius that the Walter we know and love. I think he would of known how to come over. But then again I may be wrong. The episode was AWESOME nonetheless…

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  24. says

    Ha ha…yes..I was right…okay, not about how Peter found out…but that he would bolt as soon as he found out.

    Walter KNEW what the consequences would be…and he was right.

    Now, my point on Olivia…she looked a little “cold” in delivering the news to Walter b/c she “knew” what would happen…and she knows that she has to NOT lose it, because she has to keep Walter from going insane and ending up back at St. Claire’s…no, he wouldn’t end up there, but he could be so brokenhearted that he “misses” things that he should “pick up”. Also, Olivia knows that Peter “knew” about him, but she has to be strong.

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  25. SF says

    I think Olivia at the end, when she delivers the news to Walter that Peter’s gone, is in shock. She looks dazed, like something she secretly feared but hoped would never happen, has happened: Peter’s disappeared without telling her. I think she came to tell Walter and is trying not to break down.

    That smile she greeted Peter with when he woke up – if he’d been his normal self, he would have known what that smile said(that she has feelings for him) – but he gives her such a cold hard look, I thought, he knows – and then – I like the commenter who said ‘he puts his game face on’, so he can get Walter in and tell him he knows. That scene in the hospital is one of the best for Joshua Jackson and John Noble, in a long string of very good moments between them. I thought Joshua was perfect, and the commentator who said ‘seething rage’ is spot on. I think I was afraid of Peter in that scene! Great acting by both. I cried for Walter, and completely understood Peter’s anger at this enormous betrayal by Walter whom he had just come a long way to trusting again. I’ve spent all day wondering where Peter is and what he’s doing, will Olivia go find him, and how they can be a team again.

    Finally! Peter knows! And we know how the shapeshifters and humans can cross over! A very good episode.

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    • chini says

      i completely agree on how you explained olivia’s expression when she told walter the news as well as peter’s reaction when he gained consciousness. absolutely great acting from both joshua jackson and john noble.

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  26. Pakafloz says

    For me, the secretary is Walternate, it’s easy to guess… when the embryo died he took Walter’s hand the same way the secretary took Newton’s hand.
    My guess is that the embryo recognized Walter as his boss, but he didn’t realized he already was in our side.

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  27. says

    Oh, man, what I posted didn’t go through…so, you beat me to it, Pakafloz–> the “Secretary” is Walternate…as evidenced by the shapeshifter apologizing to Walter. *grin*

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  28. Jason says

    Considering the circumstances, like an embryonic shape-shifter holding walter’s hand and saying i’m sorry, or the fact that so-called secretary resembles walter(actually, i don’t know about this but…), it might be walternate.
    However, what I’ve been wondering is that…
    why does Walternate(if it is him in fact) go through all those trouble?
    I mean our beloved walter on this side managed to take peter from there 25 years ago with rather simple device, but what’s with this walternate guy?
    He’s from the universe that is known to have more advanced technology…
    Anyway I believe next episodes will fill in the blanks for us

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    • Alison says

      “However, what I’ve been wondering is that…why does Walternate(if it is him in fact) go through all those trouble?”

      I’m wondering the same. Frankly, I find the idea of Walter and Walternate playing “tug of war” over Peter, because of course our Walter wouldn’t want Peter to be taken from him, to be rather uneventful and useless. Besides if Walternate really IS here for Peter, and I’m not saying it is Walternate, because I think it’s too soon to come to a full conclusion, Peter is a grown man now. What would Walternate gain from coming over to our side to get back his son? Does he plan to just waltz up to him and say “Hey son! It’s me, your REAL father, and by real, I mean from another universe. How about you and I disrupt the fundamentals of our worlds and head back over to ‘our’ universe, and you can ultimately leave behind the life you’ve built up here for a new one in a would that is experiencing global catastrophes? Oh, and by the way, your REAL mother is doing fine and isn’t dead, but we need to hurry up and get back before dinner gets cold.”?

      Now as I’ve said before, the fact that they decided to not reveal “the Secretary’s” identity yet could be reason to believe that we have in fact seen him before. Heck, the guy could be a shape shifter too for all we know and he could just pretend to be anyone important, like Bell. Or maybe the creators are just doing this on purpose to make people like us go crazy trying guess who it is, when we really haven’t seen him before. *GASP* Maybe their reading our posts right now and laughing at us!!!! 0__0…..

      Ok, back on track. LOL

      Anyway, because Lenard Nimoy (W.Bell) is retiring from acting, of course there is going to have to be someone who will fill the role of the so called “man behind the curtain”, “bad guy”, or whatever we’ll call him, to take his place. I suppose we could surmise it to be Newton, since it seems like he’s calling the shots right now, but I don’t think he’s behind it all, even though he is a slimy, yet strangely awesome, rascal. So maybe it IS someone that hasn’t been introduced yet? I still think it might be alt-Bell, which would probably mean he would end up dying I guess. I just can’t find a solid reason for Walternate to be in our universe. The first rule of being the boss: If there is work to be done, never do it yourself, always send someone else. That’s what lackeys are for :). I’m sure this guy isn’t the man who is REALLY behind everything that has been happening.

      I’m thinking way tooo much about this. *shakes fist angrily* “Curse you Fringe creators and your ability to make me go overboard with theories! This is all part of your master plan isn’t it?!”………Or, is it the work of “the Secretary”? o__0 Dun dun dunnn!

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      • mlj102 says

        “What would Walternate gain from coming over to our side to get back his son? Does he plan to just waltz up to him and say “Hey son! It’s me, your REAL father, and by real, I mean from another universe. How about you and I disrupt the fundamentals of our worlds and head back over to ‘our’ universe, and you can ultimately leave behind the life you’ve built up here for a new one in a would that is experiencing global catastrophes? Oh, and by the way, your REAL mother is doing fine and isn’t dead, but we need to hurry up and get back before dinner gets cold.”?”

        I keep thinking about this comment you made and I think you made a really good point. You expressed really well one of the things that has been bothering me about the concept that Walternate’s sole purpose has been to retrieve his son that was kidnapped. Retrieving Peternate when he was still a child would have been one thing, but, as you expressed, it’s really quite different when he’s now an adult. How would Walternate plan to address that situation? I agree that Walternate is a key figure in the whole confrontation between the universes and I agree that Peter being taken was an important event in all of this. But I have to think there’s more to it all than just Walternate wanting to get his son back.

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        • Alison says

          Agreed! :)

          And I’m not saying Walternate WON’T play an important role in the future, but right now I can’t come up with a theory as to what his involvement in this current situation could be, without it being full of holes.

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  29. mlj102 says

    Wow – there have been a lot of comments and I have really enjoyed reading what everyone has to say. Special thank you to everyone who responded to my earlier comment regarding Olivia’s reaction when she told Walter the bad news. You all make some really great points and you’re probably right that she’s just holding in her emotions as much as she can to avoid, a) losing control and b) making things worse for Walter. I still think there’s something off in that scene – it doesn’t seem quite right to me – though perhaps that’s just because it was rather short and somewhat rushed.

    Just a few additional comments:

    Some of you have talked about the scene between Peter and Olivia in the hospital and have speculated that, at that moment, Peter knew that Olivia knew about the secret. I can understand why – I agree that there was something strange about that scene. At some points it felt a bit forced, even uncomfortable to watch. Though I didn’t really get the sense that he was angry with Olivia. He had just barely woken up after being unconscious for over a full day. I imagine a lot of it was that he was simply disoriented. Plus, he was remembering what happened and putting together the pieces that he’s from the other side. Maybe that would explain why he seemed preoccupied or somewhat upset at points – because it was at that moment that he was figuring out just what everything meant. And, on top of that, I think he was trying to put on a good face for Olivia. It was clear that she was concerned for him, so it would makes sense for him to try to convince her that he was fine both physically and emotionally. So that would explain what others have pointed out about his facial expressions and his odd behavior. Maybe he was suspicious at the time, but I don’t think he’d had the time or that he was awake enough to completely put the pieces together and realize the extent of her involvement.

    That said, it would make sense that after she’d left and after he’d talked to Walter, he was able to think about it some more and figure out that Olivia was aware of the truth. He would be able to remember that she could see objects from the other side, it would explain her strange behavior, how she knew about the water absorbing excess energy, etc. So while I don’t think he knew about Olivia’s involvement when she was still there, I imagine he has figured it out by now. It kind of bothers me to think that he just disappeared without talking to her about it. I would think he would at least give her the courtesy of confronting her about the matter. No matter how angry he is with Walter and the whole situation and Olivia’s indirect involvement in it, he still cares for both her and Walter. That’s what would make the pain and the betrayal that much stronger.

    I guess what I’m trying to say is that I would expect his reactions towards Walter and Olivia to be different. He has very different relationships with each of them. Walter is, or at least has been, his father. He has grown to care about him and love having him in his life. He trusted him. Then to find out that Walter was directly responsible for taking him from his real home, his real family, and his real life, and that he lied to him about it, it makes sense that he would be as angry as he is and that he would shut him out. But Olivia is his friend. She’s someone he cares about and she’s someone he talks to. He confides in her. I thought it was very telling the way he immediately went to her when he thought he knew what had been bothering Walter. He tells her what he’s thinking and he shares his ideas with her. He tells her things he doesn’t tell anyone else. As much as he loves Walter, he doesn’t really have those kinds of discussions with him. With Olivia, they’re more on the same level – colleagues and friends. Add that to the fact that she was only marginally involved in this whole thing, and I would think he would approach her and talk to her about things. It’s hard to picture him completely shutting her out of his life without at least talking to her about it first.

    Of course, it could be that I’m thinking too rationally and he’s simply too wrapped up in everything to look at things from that kind of perspective just yet. Maybe he just needs a little space for a short while in order to process everything. That said, I would hope that, after a certain amount of time has passed, he would have calmed down a bit and he would approach her and be willing to talk to her about the whole thing. It just makes sense based on the relationship they have.

    It’s interesting to speculate on how they will all manage to reconcile things. No doubt it will take a lot of time and a lot of work. Especially with Walter and Peter. It’s going to be a long, unpleasant process. And it will all have to start with Peter deciding to give Walter another chance. And I don’t see that happening easily. I think something big will have to happen to cause Peter to realize that, despite his hurt and his anger, he does still care about Walter and that he doesn’t want to lose him. I don’t think they’ll have the relationship we’ve seen between them over the last few episodes again for a long time… but I think that, given time and work and the right set of circumstances, they will eventually be able to mend their relationship, even making it stronger than it was before. And I think Olivia could play an important role in that process. Things will be very tense between Peter and Walter, and I could see Olivia kind of being the glue that holds them together for awhile, much as she was at the beginning when Peter didn’t want to stay, but he did and, eventually he developed a close relationship with Walter.

    One final comment. There has been a lot of speculation regarding who the secretary is. All guesses I’ve seen seem to be either Walternate or William Bell. I can understand why people believe it’s one of them, but personally, I wouldn’t be surprised if the secretary is someone completely different – perhaps even someone we don’t even know yet. I definitely think that Walternate is a key player in everything that’s happening, but in some ways I think it would be almost too predictable for it to be him. I actually view the secretary as being a man of power and authority, but still only a representative for the people who are running this show – like Walternate. Of course, if it wasn’t Walternate or William Bell, there’s little reason to have gone to such careful measures to keep his identity a secret and to make sure we couldn’t see who he was. But maybe that’s just to add to the mystery surrounding him… I don’t know. I’m just not sold on the idea that it’s Walternate or William Bell.

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    • Jason says

      wow…what a long comment indeed.
      anyway i kinda agree that it would be too predictable if the secretary turns out to be either walternate or bell….
      The embryonic shape shifter holding walter’s hand could be explained by your theory, that walternate is actually the high man on the totem pole.
      I really can’t wait for season finale. I’m looking forward to getting some answers for all this stuff.

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  30. Jacksonheights says

    As to where Peter is, I would suspect that he may try to seek out Walternate and Alter Liz. Wouldn’t he be interested in finding his real parents. To that end wouldn’t he seek out Thomas newton and the man on the bridge. How he would find them well Fringe usually finds a way. Peter has some friends from his past with some interesting skill sets. If Olivia wanted to find Peter she could go to Massive Dynamic with their cameras and facial recognition software. But honestly they need to give him some space.
    I did feel the reveal was rushed. He looked to Walter for confirmation I didn’t seem like he was positive of his facts until he saw Walters face. The abduction, the missing childhood and his mothers suicide it was as if he was piecing things together. I don’t think they allowed him the oppoftnity to shift his emotions from hurt to anger not enough time.
    As to the Secretary how about alter Robert Trent Jones. He is smart has something to do with zft here and was amassing any army here. He also knew how to get to the other side. Just an alternate theory.

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  31. SF says

    mlj102, I would have thought the same thing – that he would have gone to her and confirmed first that she knew and didn’t tell, and then included her in his sense of betrayal. I’ve watched that scene several times now, trying to figure out if he’s mad at her then also. I came to the conclusion yes, because he doesn’t ask to see her again, and the way he asks to see Walter – there’s something in his tone – it’s not the usual Peter. It may be you’re right and he figures out after the scene with Walter, but remember how he was in What LIes Below – he was furious with her at the thought of her betrayal – and I think that fear lies closest in his mind under the love he has for both of them. He’s always been afraid of betrayal, and I guess I was making the point that he’s in shock, and when a person is in shock, they act instinctively. Peter’s first reaction is to run away. I think he knew about Olivia – that like was earlier said, he saw everything in a flash – everything about Walter and Olivia’s behaviour since Jacksonville made sense. And Olivia was someone he was supposed to talk to, but she wasn’t talking to him since then. I think it’s understandable that he runs from her too. The person he is most likely to be in touch with is Astrid, if only to get things from the house ,but we know he can fake ID and passports, so he could disappear completely for a little while before Olivia and the FBI find him.

    At this point, I don’t blame him at all! How could he look at either of them, until he has time to absorb it? Underneath it all, he must feel like they didn’t trust him to handle the truth, especially Olivia. And I thought this would be the price she would pay for not telling him.

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    • mlj102 says

      Great comment, SF — I really enjoyed reading all that you had to say.

      “remember how he was in What LIes Below – he was furious with her at the thought of her betrayal…”

      True, but I also think it’s important to remember that most of that reaction wasn’t actually Peter — it was the virus. As Olivia told him, “You weren’t yourself.”

      “and I think that fear lies closest in his mind under the love he has for both of them.”

      I really, really liked this and I completely agree — the sense of betrayal one feels increases more and more the more they care about that person. That said, you could be right that he knew of Olivia’s involvement when he was talking with her, and that he was so angry he left without even confronting her… I just really hope that isn’t the case. It just doesn’t feel right. But if it is what happened, I do hope that he won’t treat her the same as he does Walter. I hope that, after he’s had some time to react to the situation and to vent his anger, he will be willing to talk to her.

      “The person he is most likely to be in touch with is Astrid”

      This is probably the part of your comment that I disagree with the most. I just don’t see it. Peter has a very little connection to Astrid. He doesn’t talk to her about things, and he wouldn’t need her help, so I imagine he wouldn’t have any desire to contact her. Besides that, he knows of the relationship she has with Walter and that she’s likely to be close to Walter at this time — I don’t think he would want to be in contact with someone who will be so closely involved with Walter. I still think if he stays in contact with the team, it will be through Olivia. I just don’t think that Olivia deserves the same kind of treatment that Walter does. I think Walter is and should be the focus of Peter’s anger and betrayed feelings. Walter is the one responsible for this all, while Olivia was just pulled into it. Her role was more minor. While you are right that he has a right to be angry with her, I don’t think it should be as severe as his anger towards Walter. So while his initial reaction may be to completely shut out everyone from the team, I hope he will recognize the position Olivia was in and be willing to reach out to her in some way and mend their relationship. I really think that will be crucial in helping to repair the relationship between him and Walter.

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  32. Elaine says

    And I thought this would be the price she would pay for not telling him.

    Amen. The price you have to figure Olivia knew she’d have to pay, which makes it all the more tragic.

    I believe Peter is somewhat aware that he and Olivia share a stronger/stranger connection than just collegues or partners. Going as far back as Olivia shutting down the lights on the panel of that bomb, to Walter guiding him to help Olivia to stay under hypnosis in ‘Bad Dreams’, to his premature near kiss in ‘Jacksonville’…he was there. He may not understand what it is, or why…but it’s there and I believe you’re right, he likely has feared some type of betrayal…least of all from Olivia due to that connection.

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  33. says

    The key is that Walternate did not know until after Peter was gone that he was taken by the other Walter, depending on what the other Elizabeth told him. She could have told him that Peter was gone but not telling him about the other Walter, so the whole thing could have played out like Peter went missing.

    Remember, Walter was telling Peter and Olivia the way that Bell and him worked on sending an object (a car) to the other side was like using “tuning forks”. So Walternate, having done the same experiments w/Bell on the other side, would have continued to work on that method of transferring objects, ultimately sending himself.

    He had no idea that our Walter was “looking in” on the other universe, or that our Walter had found a way, a shortcut, of getting to the other side, and even if he found out after Peter was gone, he still didn’t know what it was.

    Walternate also didn’t know that he had actually found a cure for Peter, and our Walter actually “saw” the cure. As far as Walternate knows, our Walter just took Peter to have him for a short time before he died.

    Walternate went down a very different path than our Walter. He became hardened, whereas our Walter went “through madness”, and finding a faith in God, asked Him for forgiveness because he realized what he did was wrong.

    It’s actually kind of funny, ’cause if Walter hadn’t done what he had done, things would have been very different in the character of Walternate and in his own character. We wouldn’t know the Walter who is funny and endearing, and whom Olivia trusts with her life (which is very rare for an FBI agent to trust someone with their life).

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    • Arun says

      “As far as Walternate knows, our Walter just took Peter to have him for a short time before he died. ”

      That’s a great point you’ve made there! I think it answers the question most people have already asked; why it’s taken Walternate so long to figure out that his son is actually alive and well on our Side, and to find a way through. He was probably upset that he wasn’t there when he thought his Peter died, and probably spent some time in St Claire’s, overwhelmed by misery. It’s incredibly sad now I think about it, he would have the same feelings towards our Walter that Peternate did, anger and betrayal, that he lead him to believe he stole his last days with his son. :c I’m kind of scared about the finale now, I want it to be happy, I think our Walter will be so ashamed if his actions that he’d just, never smile again.

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      • Alison says

        Then again, as far as Walternate knows, he may not even know what happened to his son. Apart from him figuring it out himself, the only other way he could of found out is through Bell. We still don’t know if the “Secretary” is in fact Walternate.

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  34. SF says

    I’ve only found this site, so I haven’t commented on the ‘What Lies Below’ episode review, but one thought I had was that while Peter was driven by the virus to get outside, it was what he said to Olivia that got my attention: “theres’ a cure out there, you betrayed me” (by keeping him in). I think Olivia refers to him attacking her as that’s when he’s not himself. None of the other people showed any anger, just fear or panic or drive to get out – frustration in Peter’s group – but he directed his rage at her specifically. Not his father, not Astrid, who were there in the building. To me, that was a big clue that Peter is most afraid of betrayal by those he is particularly close to – I don’t mean that he wasn’t afraid of it from Walter, but he has ties to Walter that are much deeper. Olivia is new in his life, and he has put himself on the line for her, reaching out for her, and how he chose to react to her leaving him behind with the virus was fear and betrayal. What’s the qualities Peter admires most, that we’ve seen – loyalty (he helps his ex-girlfriend in Dreamscape), and despite being a conman, he’s been nothing but up front and honest with Olivia and Walter. It’s with them that we’ve seen the real Peter emerge. With his close bond with Olivia – and heavens yes I agree there is such a close connection between them, even though we don’t know how it works yet! something special and unusual though – her not talking to him about what she learns about him, is going to seem almost as bad at first. I’m just saying that for the moment, he couldn’t separate the betrayals because it was so sudden and complete and they were both complicit in it. I think he will turn to her eventually, and try at least to find out why she didn’t tell him. Whether he will let her in again, depends on how strong his feelings for her really are. Whether Olivia forgives herself is another matter.

    My point with Astrid was only that if he needed to contact someone, it might be Astrid, but it’s more likely that if he is around, he can hide himself quite well for a time.

    I wonder if Olivia will have more sleepless nights because of the choice she did end up making – not to tell him? If this is how she finally comes to realize how unique a partner Peter is for her? how much she has come to rely on him? What a friend he has been to her since his arrival in the Pilot? I’ve often thought he has treated her better much of the time than she has him, and it will be interesting to see if she can reach out to him and help heal this breach she has caused. Neither of them is good at trusting, and I think when Peter has time to think it through, he will come to realize she wasn’t keeping a secret of hers, but a secret that wasn’t hers really to tell. Though, I still think she should have told him! but I’ve come to see how this has made Walter and Olivia develop their own relationship, which is as complex as Peter and Walter’s.

    I really love how relationships are complex and layered on this show. And yes, I want Peter and Olivia together as a couple, but not too quickly. I want to see them grow closer together, and I’ve loved watching them do it over the last season and a half. This is a real test of their friendship, and potential relationship, as well as the survival of Fringe Division itself. I wonder what Broyles will think of Olivia when he finds out? And do we finally find out why Peter is so special to Nina?

    I’ve enjoyed reading all your posts, too, mlj102 :-) on all the various episode reviews here! you have some really good insights and comments also.

    thanks Elaine – and yes, that connection must have made him feel he could trust her to tell him anything. It will be interesting to see if that connection holds out through this betrayal. I think it will, it’s something organic that they can’t control. I agree with Rocco when he said in Ability that he thought Peter helped her somehow to turn out those lights – i caught too that they didn’t start going out until he was back in the room with her. How this connection works, how it helps them both, is one of the mysteries this wonderful show still has to be reveal!

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  35. Betynha says

    For me just one thing would justify Walternate taking so long to claim Peter back: he is the one who created the shapeshifters, the device and work out a way to come over here to take what is his.

    And this episode left me wondering many things… but of one I’m quite sure: Peter will be even more disapointed when he discover that Olivia already knew Walter’s secret. Especially because he’s been showing a lot of affection for her lately.

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  36. kittyofdoom says

    I’m coming in a little belatedly on this, but I recently rewatched Olivia telling Walter that Peter’s gone, and she says, “Peter checked himself out of the hospital three hours ago. He’s not at the lab, and he’s not answering his phone.” I think it’s significant that at 6 in the morning, Olivia would be up and going to see Peter, and on finding out he was gone she would drive to and search the lab and try his phone, probably multiple times.

    I think by the time Olivia comes to tell Walter he’s gone, she’s been shocked and upset already by herself, and can put on an emotionless exterior again.

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  37. mlj102 says

    I’m glad you’ve found the site because I really like all your comments. You have some great insight. I’m particularly intrigued by your analysis from What Lies Below. You make some good points and I agree that some of what Peter said could have been in response to his own feelings and his fears of betrayal. But I really think that what we saw wasn’t a reflection of how Peter really saw things. Peter understood the situation and how serious it was to keep the virus contained. Even after they thought he was infected, he understood the risks to himself and that he was now in danger. I don’t think he would blame Olivia at all for not allowing him to leave. He knew that he needed to stay in confinement — the virus is what wanted out. Peter would know and trust Olivia and the rest of the team to do whatever was necessary to save him. I don’t see how he could have viewed Olivia’s actions as betraying him.

    I agree with what you said about him being unable to separate the different levels of involvement between Olivia and Walter when he first figured out what was going on. I agree that he has a right to be angry with her — he felt he could trust her and talk to her, only to find out that she has known about this secret for some time and hasn’t told him. That would hurt. But I would expect he would be more forgiving of that and understanding of her position than he is of Walter.

    “I’ve often thought he has treated her better much of the time than she has him”

    I think you’re being a little harsh on Olivia in this instance. Yes, Olivia struggles in opening up to him about things she is concerned about and things that worry her. But that’s just part of who she is. She has a hard time with relationships and confiding in others and allowing others around her to help her. And when she does, those people die or betray her. Life has been hard to her and has made it harder for her to develop those relationships with others. But I don’t think that makes her any less of a true friend to Peter than he was to her. It may seem like he has treated her better simply because she has been in more of a position where she needed a friend than Peter has been in. But when he has been in need, when he has been in difficult positions, she has been there for him 100% and has shown that she is willing to do anything for him. For example, I still think that a big factor in her decision to choose to let Newton go in exchange for being able to save Walter was that she cared about Peter and knew how much he cared about Walter. I really think that, by choosing to keep the secret, she felt she was doing what was best for her and Peter and Walter and everyone else in the long run. She may be wrong in that decision, but I think she had every intention of doing what was best for all of them.

    I think Olivia has realized already how much she depends on Peter. Even back to Of Human Nature, when Walter was unable to function with Peter missing, and he mentioned how Peter always helps him, and she admitted that Peter helps her too. That’s a big thing for her. Then there were other instances like What Lies Below or Olivia. In the Lab… when he has been there for her and she realizes just how important he is to her. So while I think this experience with Peter gone will help to emphasize how much she relies on him, I think she is well aware of how important he has become in her life.

    I agree that this whole experience will be a real test of their friendship, and I think that being able to overcome this obstacle will make their friendship even stronger.

    Again, thanks for your comments! You often point out a lot of things that I hadn’t even considered.

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    • mlj102 says

      Oops — I thought I had hit reply, but I guess I just did a general comment. So to clarify, my above comment was in response to SF.

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  38. says

    oh, I can’t wait to see how they do come back together…but, if they do, it’ll probably take longer for them to get to the point where they were before Olivia “saw” that Peter was from the other side.

    Why is it the best shows are sci-fi shows?

    I’m hoping the relationship between Peter/Olivia is earned. if it is then “Fringe” will rank right up there with “Farscape’s” John/Aeryn.

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  39. SF says

    mlj102: Ok, so if he didn’t think she betrayed him in What Lies Below, why does he say those words to her? do you think it’s the virus talking to her?

    I think, because he goes out of his way to track her and attack her, that it was a mix of what lies in him, as well as how he felt seeing her get out, but he can’t. I think we saw the real Peter when he doesn’t shoot her. That was when his feelings for her fought through the affects of the virus. You might be right, the virus may have made him feel betrayed, but I think the virus had one goal, to get out – and Peter doesn’t take Olivia’s path into the building to get out, instead he goes after her. I think this episode was a prelude to what we’re about to see play out in the next several episodes: Peter hurts Olivia, attacks her (under the guise of the virus, but remember no one else attacks because of the virus), and despite that, Olivia risks her life and races to save his. I think we see how much Peter means to her in this episode – I mean, as Rocco says in his review, all the Fringe division realize what they’re willing to do for one another in ‘What Lies Below’; like Broyles says, they are a family. I have always thought Peter is with Fringe – decides to stay – mostly because of her. ‘The Arrival showed him that he has questions to be answered, but Olivia has been the main draw, and through her, he has gotten his father back. I guess what puzzles me about Peter’s attacking her in What Lies Below is,if the virus was directing his actions, why doesn’t he spray her with the virus? She had already been cleared to go out, and was the virus’s best chance to get outside at that point. That’s what I mean by this episode reveals something of what lies within Peter, that the virus exposed: his fear of betrayal. As it turns out, he was right, and he finally knows that. Not that Olivia would betray him, but that most of his life he was betrayed.

    As for him treating her better, I meant that from the very start of this show, he has always been bringing her things – coffee, food, looking after her. I think she’s brought him a coffee once. Other than ‘No Brainer’, I don’t think he’s been in her apartment until ‘Olivia. In the Lab’. She’s kept her work life separate from her personal life (what there is of it), whereas Peter has always been clear that he wants to get to know her better. Certainly she has talked with him from the very beginning, opened up and told him things that no one else has known! She’s also started listening to him and comforting him (Grey Matter) when he confesses he didn’t visit his father much in St Clair’s. I think I meant that she has started to trust him and let him in, to be his friend too, rather than just work partner. She had started trusting him much more, to rely on him; absolutely I agree there. I think she didn’t know fully how much he meant to her until recently.

    You’re so right in that one reason she didn’t kill Newton was because she could hear how desperate Peter was for Walter to live. I do think that she would have picked Walter anyway, but having Peter call to her, helped her make that choice.

    For this episode, I really think he could only see the betrayal, and it is overwhelming that his whole life was a sham. All he wanted was to get away, once Walter confirmed everything. I don’t blame Peter! I would have liked him to talk to Olivia first, too, but we know that she already sided with Walter in this.

    Well, you’ve made me want to go watch ‘What Lies Below’ again! lol as well as this episode, and ‘Gray Matter’…..and you certainly have got me thinking, I really enjoy all your points and ideas :-)

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    • mlj102 says

      SF: Yeah, I do think it was just the virus talking. While I agree that Peter does fear betrayal and losing those close to him, perhaps more than anything, I just really don’t see how he could have viewed Olivia’s actions in that episode as betraying him. I understand what you’re saying about how his actions seemed to be different from the others who were infected, and that’s a good point, but I just can’t see why he would feel betrayed. When Peter was first exposed to the infected blood, he understood what that meant. He knew that he was a danger and couldn’t be allowed to leave. He accepted that and wouldn’t want Olivia or anyone else to risk an outbreak of the virus by letting him out. So I guess the difference of opinion we have is coming from the fact that you are looking at how Peter acted after being infected and claiming that some of the actions were the real Peter and some of them were the virus, while I am looking at how we saw Peter react when he was first infected and how I would expect the real Peter to react, and not seeing any similarities in his confrontation with Olivia, which leads me to conclude that that entire scene was the virus acting out (except for the very last part where Peter chose not to shoot Olivia) and that Peter himself had very little control over his actions. As for why the virus didn’t “choose” to spray and infect Olivia, I think that’s simply because, at that point, it wanted to infect as many people as possible and didn’t see it as worthwhile to simply infect one additional person (even though, as you pointed out, theoretically, infecting Olivia might have allowed it to get out since they didn’t suspect her of being inspected… but, again, that’s all speculation as we have no idea what sorts of precautions would have been made to test Olivia and see if she was still healthy…).

      I agree with what you say about how that episode foreshadowed how each of the Fringe team members would react when the truth about Peter was revealed. I think I commented about it in the review for the episode, but I think essentially we saw that Walter would be devastated, and Astrid would stand by him and support him. Peter would be separated from the others, and Olivia would be committed to doing whatever was necessary to help him and she would, essentially, be supportive of him. And I think that’s basically what we saw. While Olivia may be somewhat understanding of Walter’s actions, I still don’t think she agrees with them and I think that she ultimately identifies with Peter in this situation and she would be much more loyal to him than she would be to Walter if forced to choose.

      I acknowledge what you’re saying about Peter and the things he has done to help Olivia and to show that he cares for her, and certainly those are all significant things he has done for her, but I think that you can’t judge a person’s commitment to someone or something based solely on material things or actions that you can see. A lot of that loyalty and friendship is shown in the simple, subtle things, things that could often go unnoticed. Personally, I just can’t really picture Olivia going out of her way to do things like that for Peter on a regular basis — and that doesn’t mean that she doesn’t care about him. That’s just not how she shows it. She shows it in the way she has faith in him and trusts him, despite his questionable background. She shows it in the way she is willing to open up and tell him things about herself. She shows it by listening to him and giving words of comfort/advice when needed. She shows it by being willing to stand by him and to sacrifice for him. There is no doubt in my mind that there isn’t anything that Olivia wouldn’t be willing to do for Peter. Those may not be material things that she physically gives to him, but they’re just as significant. And of course those things weren’t as common for her at the beginning. He had to earn her trust and friendship. As far as she knew when she met him, he was a criminal that couldn’t be trusted. Given that fact, I actually think it’s quite remarkable that she trusted him as much as she did. She clearly cared about him (as shown in instances like The Arrival when she was trying to convince him to stay, or the Cure when she was concerned about what he’d agreed to do in exchange for the information from Nina Sharp) and was willing to give him a chance despite initial signs that he wasn’t the type of person she should be working with. I don’t think anyone can claim that that makes her less of a friend to Peter than he has been to her. It’s just two different people and two different circumstances, so it’s hard to compare what he does for her vs. what she does for him.

      Like you, I find myself suddenly feeling like I need to watch What Lies Below again to reassess certain aspects of the episode. I also want to rewatch Season 1 so that I can be reminded of how Peter acted in the first several episodes because I expect that’s more like the Peter we’ll be seeing when (if?) he ever decides to give Walter another chance. But that kind of rewatch will have to wait until this season ends… Hopefully Roco will organize a rewatch like he did last summer. It will be fun to read the comments from you and others in regards to past episodes.

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      • SF says

        Well if Roco organizes a rewatch, I’ll try to be part of it. I’ve watched and rewatched Season 1 many times already – since I came late to Fringe (last October). Plus all the season 2 episodes I have PVR’d…..

        I really like your comments about Olivia and Peter and their friendship. I do agree with you, you know :-) it’s just that Peter has been more open about how he feels, and Olivia hasn’t been fully aware until lately how much she has come to rely on him. RIght from the very beginning they were both extraordinarily open with each other, and I have really loved all their moments of talking because we learn so much about them then. I do think it’s interesting that Peter is still opening up to her in this episode – about his mother’s death – for the first time,despite her and Walter’s odd behaviour the past few weeks. YOu have a very clear idea of how good a friend Olivia has been to him, whereas I find that she has come to appreciate him the longer she has known him. I’ve always found the scene in Arrival when he tells her he is going to stay, and she hands him his badge, as touching – she had faith, even when he said he was going to leave, she had enough faith that he would find a way to stay. That’s what I think helped Peter most of all become the person he’s shown himself to be in S2, because she has turned to him and believed in him.

        ‘I think that she ultimately identifies with Peter in this situation and she would be much more loyal to him than she would be to Walter if forced to choose.’
        I always thought that too, until the secret!! Now, now I’m not so sure, though if forced, I think she would choose Peter too.

        By the way, I wouldn’t say if Peter or Olivia was the better friend because they are two different people. They both would do just about anything for each other. Which is the most important thing! I was commenting on how each got to this point – Peter arrived more quickly than Olivia, that’s all. He did have to earn her trust, and he earned it quickly, didn’t he? I wonder how long it will take her to earn it back?

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  40. SF says

    crazylady25; sorry, I keep forgetting to hit the reply button here! I like your idea too that it will take them longer to get together this time – well, I don’t think a season and a half again, I hope not! But certainly they have to get past this, and that will only start when Peter can start asking questions about why Olivia didn’t tell him. I don’t think he’s in any shape to listen to her right now. that’s what makes me think he realized everything when he didn’t die on the bridge – why Olivia’s been acting so strangely since Jacksonville – so he knows she kept it from him. Some day he will ask, but right now I think his main aim is to find a way over to his real parents. I don’t think he’s thinking at all right now, he’s acting on instinct and emotion only.

    “Why is it the best shows are sci-fi shows? ”

    Excellent question, and so true!!! Fringe is up there with the best, and if they give time for the characters to come together again – explore how a family can forgive – then I agree, Fringe will be the best. I’ve never watched Farscape, so I can’t compare there. I can hardly wait for Peter and Olivia to get back to Jacksonville/pre-glimmer stage! lol though I want it, it shouldn’t be for some time. I’m really hoping we do see her and Peter, and Peter and Walter, talk and work through everything that’s happened, so they come to a new way of being together.

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  41. Anjali says

    Very true about how some of the best shows are sci-fi shows, and FRINGE is very high on that list.

    Unfortunately, it is very frustrating that more people are not watching it.. I mean I’m happy with the ratings (considering it’s on thurs w/ heavy competition) and SO SO SO glad that it got picked up for season 3, but how are people not watching this? It’s too fantastic… the characters, the plot, the loopholes, the chemistry between the cast, the writing… just brilliant stuff all around.

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